SLCo Employee Wellness Wellcast
The SLCo Employee Wellness Wellcast is a fun, entertaining, and enlightening look at health and wellness. It breaks down complex health topics and interviews experts in the wellness field to help participants live healthier lives.
SLCo Employee Wellness Wellcast
Navigating Grief Through Cancer: A Therapist's Personal Journey
Lindsay Van Roo, a licensed clinical social worker, shares her deeply personal journey of losing her mother to colon cancer while navigating her new role as a mother herself, offering valuable insights on grief, therapy, and supporting loved ones through illness.
• Finding balance between supporting a loved one with cancer and caring for your own mental health
• Embracing conflicting emotions during grief—allowing joy and pain to coexist
• Using the "circle of control" concept to focus on what you can manage during difficult times
• Importance of therapy as a safe space to express all emotions, especially the difficult ones
• How to support someone who has lost a loved one by asking specific questions
• Creating meaningful ways to remember and celebrate those we've lost
• The value of vulnerability and sharing stories as part of the healing process
For support with navigating cancer personally or with a loved one, remember you don't have to do it alone. Therapy can be a place to process, breathe, and heal. You can reach out to our EAP services, VEST, to connect with a therapist today.
Welcome back to the Employee Wellness Wellcast, a podcast where we dive into different health and wellness topics that encourage health, hope and healing. My name is Jane Hansen. I'm one of the health educators we have on the Employee Wellness team, and today's episode is extremely special because I am joined with Lindsay Van Roo, who is a licensed clinical social worker and children book author. Here is a little bit about Lindsay to kick off today's episode.
Speaker 1:Lindsay is a licensed clinical social worker who has been practicing since 2019, specializing in helping clients work through depression, anxiety, trauma and life transitions. She recently has published a children's book about emotional regulation skills called Big Emotions Rory Can Relate. She's also a yoga instructor, a new mom and, like many of us, a lover of the outdoors and good food. In 2023, lindsay became a mom to a beautiful and smart little girl who fills her days with sunshine. In that same year, she lost her own mother to colon cancer. Lindsay's ability to show up for others in their own grief, all while experiencing her own, is truly the definition of compassion and empathy. Lindsay, welcome to the Wellcast. Thank you so much for being willing to do this with me.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks for having me. That was a great introduction, so so kind, a lot of great things, so thanks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you're a great person. So so kind, a lot of great things. So thanks, yeah, because you're a great person, so it's awesome. This month of October, employee Wellness is focusing on cancer, more specifically, cancer awareness. For this Wellcast episode, we wanted to take the approach of raising awareness of receiving support and therapy during the cancer journey, whether it is you who has been diagnosed or someone close to you. Given Lindsay's unique journey, both as a therapist and as someone who lost her mom to colon cancer, we felt this was a perfect time to explore how therapy can support individuals and families facing cancer. So let's get started. Lindsay, I want to give you an opportunity to share a little bit about your sweet mom and what that journey was like.
Speaker 2:Thanks, jane. I think this is a really cool opportunity. I love talking about my mom. I think that's a big misconception too.
Speaker 2:Within losing someone like this is that it's hard to talk about and it is. I may get emotional as I talk, but she, like you said, incredible woman. I learned so much from her. She was just the best mom. Growing up, she was that mom. That was just fun. She loved celebrating her kids. She was my biggest cheerleader my whole life, even into adulthood.
Speaker 2:Whenever I had an accomplishment I would call her and it would just be like she's my hype woman. She was loving everything. She'd talk to her friends. It's just like she made me feel so great and, of course, she's a mom, so she's gonna do that for me. But it wasn't just for me like she would do that for everyone in her life. If you knew her, you were loved by her like she loved her friends. She loved her family. She loved her nurses through this whole cancer journey like I probably know so much about each of them because she would just talk about like she loved them. So she was just just the best. I just love her. I think she was kind, compassionate and just a great example to me of who I want to be someday too well yeah, and so much of that reflects through you, by who you are, which is so cool.
Speaker 1:What a great tribute and honor to your mom, for sure. Can you share a little bit about what it was like, learning about the diagnosis with your mom and how you processed that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was back in like the winter of 2015, 2016. So my mom was 48, pretty young. I got a call from my dad one weekend and just it was like your mom got some results back. It's not looking good emergency surgery. So like from that day on it was kind of everything changed and shifted, but kind of like I hear it with a lot of my clients it was just that moment of like oh no, like she's going to be fine, like this happens to other people, it doesn't happen to me.
Speaker 2:You know, which is that misconception? I think, especially with cancer it's so well talked about and well known but until it happens to someone close to you it doesn't really hit. And so you know this was my mom Right. But yeah, it was hard. It was a long journey. She had a lot of ups and downs, like there were moments of recovery and talks of like remission and then there was some setbacks and the cancer had spread. They ended up having to take like a large chunk of her colon in that first surgery and it just things just yeah, not the same for her after that quality of life. But that was hard, I think, seeing her go through that, seeing my family, go through it and then through the process and with her passing, it's just, it's been rough.
Speaker 2:But my, that whole, how I've processed it too, I think, is leaning on other people.
Speaker 2:That whole how I've processed it too, I think, is leaning on other people.
Speaker 2:Like, I think, in that beginning, when I found out about it, I had just started dating this awesome guy who now my husband, all these years later, but he unfortunately had also lost his mom to cancer a few years before we met, and so he was a great resource for me, because the best advice he said in that moment, like that phone call as soon as I hung up with my dad, he was like you have to go, and I'm like it's snowing, it's a blizzard, like my dad told me not to come, and he's like you have to go.
Speaker 2:And he said you'll never regret the moments you're there for her, but you will regret the moments you stayed so like go. And so in the last you know, those seven years or whatever, of her journey, it was just a lot of traveling, a lot of being there with her, with my family, and just showing up, because that's the best way I could process it was just being there, and so I think that was a big part of it for me and for my family, well and and what a roller coaster the journey is like.
Speaker 1:There's ups and there's downs, and there's successes and then there's moments where you feel defeat. Yeah, but, just like you said, showing up and being there I love what your husband said of you never will regret being there. You'll regret the moments that you're not there, but you won't regret the moments that you are there and, yeah, that's a really important in any aspect of your life. But you will never regret showing up. Yeah, and people remember that and you remember that Exactly and even, like you know your support system as the daughter of someone who is going through cancer, like your support system of people who showed up for you during this time oh yeah, totally, those things matter and they create bonds and you know, like totally those things matter and they create bonds and stronger bonds, which is awesome. So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You have a unique perspective because you are a licensed and practicing therapist who has experienced the direct impacts of the grief that comes through cancer. How would you guide a client through that process now, having gone through it yourself?
Speaker 2:I think a big part of grief, and especially when it comes to terminal illness, is being able to be open and accepting of kind of conflicting emotions, right? So, like you said in the beginning 2023, rough year I had a baby and then, you know, my mom passed away that same year and it was rough for so many reasons, but also so beautiful for so many reasons. Um, and that is a really hard thing with grief. I think a lot of us really, we feel the sadness but we don't allow ourselves to feel the good because, for some reason, it feels like we're not grieving properly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting, yeah, and so I think that's a big thing for me and you know that my family and I have talked a lot about is just like feeling the good, laughing through it, like even just those weeks and days leading up to my mom passing away, we were all together, my whole family, and we were sad, we had so many tears, yeah, but we also were lighthearted with each other. You know like we laughed, we talked about memories, we had amazing moments and I think that's a big thing. That, when I work with clients, is I talk about through grieving, through loss, is accepting and identifying those conflicting emotions of, like the reason you're grieving someone is because you cared about them, because it was a positive relationship that is now leaving and going to be gone, and embrace that, like let the good memories stay good, let the hard memories, the hard feelings and emotions be there too, and so I think that embracing and identifying the conflict, the confliction, is what I talk a lot about, and I love that you say that those feelings can coexist.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they don't have to diminish either one. Yes, right Like the bad, doesn't? You don't have to linger on that in order for you to still know that the good times happened and that they were there. Like those are just as much a part of you, then, and that's kind of what you remember as time goes on. Not that it makes it easier, right, absolutely not but just that those are the things you're choosing to remember and hold on to. So that's really special.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How did you balance being supportive to your mom while caring for your own mental health through this?
Speaker 2:journey? Answer is I didn't all the time. I think that was the hard thing was it was I wanted to be and I had all this, you know, training and experience that. I should have been like the rock and I but like that. I think a big part of it is self compassion and compassion towards others being able to recognize that I can only show up for her as much as I can.
Speaker 2:My mom was an incredible woman that was very positive and optimistic and, like you know, smile through the pain type of a person, which she did all the time. But it was hard to see her in that place and it wrecked me. It was really difficult and so hard to see my dad like the strongest person ever, which, by the way, my dad's an amazing human. I talk how?
Speaker 1:amazing, my mom is.
Speaker 2:My dad's amazing as well. Yes, he was there throughout this whole process for my mom, her main caregiver, and I think especially him like his mental health journey is a whole other thing that he yeah, it's just, it's hard when you have to show up for someone that you care about and see them in this vulnerable position, and we feel the pressure to be strong, which is important, but it's also important to be real, and so picking those moments was important. So, like with my mom, we had a lot of great conversations of hope and love and healing and we have a strong faith in our family about, you know, we will see her again, which was really helpful. We talked a lot about that. But then there were also moments where I was like, mom, are you afraid, you know? Are you afraid of what's to come? And she was like, yeah, I am, and that shook me, but I was glad I could be there for her for that.
Speaker 2:So then, dealing with my own mental health, it was just like, okay, what am I doing that's helpful for my mom and what am I? Can I take this time for me? Because I still my family's all in Southern Utah and I have been up in Salt Lake area for a while, and so the drives were important. I was, as I was going down, I was having me time, I was listening to music and podcasts and taking care of myself, kind of building myself up for to show up to be the best daughter and sister and, you know, wife and everything that I could, but then making sure I was still feeling emotions on my own, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, what I get from that is taking time to kind of process things how you need to process and maybe it's like not always, you're not always processing it the same every, every situation or every encounter right, like whether you were, you know, listening to music or decompressing with a podcast or whatever it might be like that's important. Something that I know that you've mentioned before is like writing like just a dump journal, how that can be so good for your mental health of just any thought, any feeling it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, just write it down, get it out and how that can be really therapeutic for your mental health, especially during a cancer diagnosis or whatever outcome comes from, you know, the journey of cancer.
Speaker 2:Totally. I love that because I was, I had this mindset of journaling was something that it needed to be, you know full sentences and all this stuff, but like yes, but. And then I would judge myself too if I was to say like I'm mad at Josh, at my husband, or something. I'd be like oh, that's mean I shouldn't say that.
Speaker 2:But like, really you've got to be able to have an outlet and sometimes that's the most appropriate one. Like now I've got a therapist. That's also a great outlet, but I don't. During my mom's journey especially, it was hard for my husband Because, like I said, he was dealing with his own stuff, with now losing a second mother figure, and so I couldn't put everything on him that I wanted to. I I couldn't put everything on my friends because I didn't want that to define our whole relationship. And so that journal was huge for me, therapy was huge for me, like those were kind of what I did for my own mental health.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do think, though, it's important you mentioned, you know, putting it on other people, but I do think that is good to do too.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally. You don't have to shoulder it alone, alone.
Speaker 1:And how cool is it that you're a therapist and you have a therapist.
Speaker 1:Yeah like that, to me, is like no one is too good for therapy you know like I don't mean that in a bad way, I just mean it, like it is so good and it's good for your, your overall wellness, to just get those feelings because your body, your body, keeps score, yeah, and if you're holding it in, how hard that is to just you know process things, so I admire you for that. Oh, thanks. So as a therapist, this is a great. You know moving forward, because we kind of talked about this. But as a therapist, how important has it been for you to talk to somebody about how you're feeling?
Speaker 2:It's everything. It's everything because I feel a lot of things, as we do as humans. Yeah, and so it's nice because, like we've talked about different outlets I think really helped me be the best full version of myself I talked to. It's so necessary for me, for example, to talk to my husband about, like hey, this is what I'm feeling, in order to help get the support from him that I need, and for us to kind of work together in our household and our parenting skills, so he knows what I'm coming into the situation with. You know, like Brene Brown talks about that discussion of like percentages, like hey, we should be a 50-50. I can't give you a 50 right now.
Speaker 2:I love50. I can't give you a 50 right now. I love that, you know. So I love that concept, yeah, so, like being able to talk to Josh, like my husband, and be like hey, look, I'm really missing my mom today I'm feeling a lot of things. I'm at like a 20% right now. I need you to pick it up and he's like I'm on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nice to be able to just be like I'm sad, let's go get ice cream, right, you know, and then we can just like, and then I think you do a great job and I have other friends who do an amazing job of like what do you need? And it's like I just need a laugh today, you know. Or if you'd be that space, if I needed to talk about my mom, we could, and so just having that, and then obviously, therapy is my therapist gets all of it. She the I'm mad and I'm angry and I'm angry that I'm angry and I'm confused and I'm frustrated, and this isn't fair and I'm, you know, and it's just so necessary for me to be the best version of myself to have those outlets and I love that you know who you can go for, like go to for those specific things.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, you know, okay, I don't want to burden you know it's never a burden, but I don't want to quote-unquote air quotes burden someone with like the the deepest, maybe the darkest, feelings and thoughts that I'm having. Well then, I love that you say that's why I go to therapy, because then it kind of just creates another, just a safe space for you to just give all of those feelings and get them all out, and then, yeah, you can show up in other aspects of your life the way that you need to, and you know that you have a support system around you.
Speaker 1:That maybe is more for the lighthearted and the laugh that maybe is more for the lighthearted and the laugh and like okay, like life, like life does move, move forward. But I can still be happy, you know, and like we said at the beginning of the episode of just like, you can still feel those two things at the same time, but focusing on what's going to bring you goodness and joy rather than all of the sad that comes with it. But you do a good job at balancing the two, I think. Well, thank you. So, for listeners who may be supporting a loved one with cancer right now, what is one small step they can take this week to care for their own mental health?
Speaker 2:now, what is one small step they can take this week to care for their own mental health? I think I love this question because it is very specific, it's not long term, it's right in the moment and I think that is a great thing that we can think of, because something that I really love talking to folks about with this concept is focusing on what's within your control, right? So I don't know if you've heard of the circle of control, that it's a circle within a circle and in that outer circle we list things that are outside of our control and then on the inner circle we list things within our control. And even just by listing the things in that outer circle, it gives us a sense of control because at least we know they're there, right? So in that outer circle is like cancer, you know you can't control that your parent or your family member or your loved one, their experience, their pain, their thoughts, their emotions, their reactions, and when our thoughts are heavily focused on that it becomes all-consuming. So being able to kind of list those things and then shift to say like what's within my control, that inner circle and so often it's about kind of what we've talked about within the context of this question, too, is like I would say spend more time with them and spend more time with yourself, because both are so necessary. Right, if you can, even if it's a loved one.
Speaker 2:So, like for me, I couldn't see my mom every day when I was in school, working, and so I would call her, we would FaceTime, and as soon as I had my daughter too, it was a lot more of you know, videos and pictures, and so it was like how often am I able to communicate with her and talk to her and just be there with her? And then that other part of it was, yeah, like taking care of myself, was I can, even though my emotions were huge, especially after my mom passed away, it was so necessary for me to make sure I was still exercising, still eating well, still sleeping, like doing what I could to take care of myself so that I could show up for the people in my life, especially my loved one, going through, sorry, going through this. So I think that was it, like kind of, yeah, focus on what's within your control, spend time with them, spend time with yourself. Like find that balance as best as you can during this really, really awful time. It's hard.
Speaker 1:You know, as you're talking, Lindsay, I think about just mindfulness.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like really being in the present moment and that is a form of self-care that is a form of taking care of your mental health, like grounding yourself Right, taking care of your mental health, like grounding yourself right.
Speaker 1:So, you know, just taking a minute to just like channel into your five senses and taking just a second to be where your feet are planted because that really does it helps remind you to not focus on things out of your control, like you're saying yeah, but just take a moment to focus on what you can control, which is the present moment, which is you know what is right in front of you. And that's hard when you're dealing with terminal illness or dealing with chronic illness or whatever you're dealing with, but specifically with your situation. So, yeah, I love that reminder to focus on things that you can control. So thank you so much, lindsay, for taking the time to share your story. It really is such a beautiful reminder of how relationships and how support systems and therapy can provide you with the tools to navigate life's challenges and provide perspective and peace moving through your grief. And before we wrap up the episode, I want to ask do you have any final advice for our listeners?
Speaker 2:I want to ask do you have any final advice for our listeners? One of my favorite ways that I've been able to process, you know, after losing my mom also during, but I think especially after my my dad, um, got me and my siblings all a picture of my mom and I mean, you've been in my house, it's on on my mantle and I love this about my siblings and my dad and, like we all, we believe in celebrating my mom and in thinking about her every single day.
Speaker 2:Like you know, she's the background on my phone, she's the. It is so hard and there are still days where I'm, you know, not functioning well. I cry a lot. I, you know I don't I'm not my chipper self that I was before losing my mom It'll be two years in December and it's still, you know, rocks me every day.
Speaker 2:But I think the best, that has been the best thing for me is accepting that I'm going to think about her every day. So what do I want to think about, you know? Do I want to think about the good memories and the good moments, and my dad challenged each of us when he gave us that picture was like, when you look at it, like, tell your kids a good story about your mom. That's awesome, and I do. I do Like I've shared so much with my daughter about her because she doesn't, you know, remember her very much.
Speaker 2:But we look at pictures and we talk about her, and so I think, just as hard as it is, because there are still moments where, like I catch a picture of her and it's, it's hard.
Speaker 2:The initial thought is like sadness, and sometimes it makes the sad days harder, I will be honest, but it makes the like okay days better because I feel closer to her and I yeah, it's just. It makes me happy and I think it's something that is amazing and as well as like in the last few years of her life, being able to create new memories with her, like she couldn't do much, but just like sitting next to her and reading or, you know, talking to her about life and things, and just as hard as it is. You won't regret that. You won't regret the, the memories made and just the moments that you're able to think about this person. I think that's the best thing that's helped me on my grief journey and helped a lot of the people I work with is the concept of like smiling in a picture of your loved one, even when you miss them.
Speaker 1:I think that smile is huge for a lot of us and I had a couple thoughts as you were talking, Lindsay.
Speaker 1:First of all, I think that's so beautiful that your dad did that for all of you guys and and that you, you honor her and you celebrate her and you keep her alive that way in your home and in your heart, and I think that's really so special, especially for your daughter to grow up knowing who that strong female figure is in her life, um, forever you know, which is so. I think it's so important, um for her to try, and you know, as she navigates life, and to think about who, who came before her, like that's a really powerful thing. But I also think, um, as you're talking, is it's important to, if someone asks you about it, yeah to to talk about it, like I think, as a, as a friend, I always get nervous or just anxious to ask the question because I don't want it to make you or someone else who's going through a similar journey to feel sadness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Totally so. What would you like? What advice would you give to supporters of people who are also navigating through this journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. I'm so glad you brought that up Because that's something that even some of my closest friends they don't know how to ask or what to. Great question. I'm so glad you brought that up Because that's something that even some of my closest friends they don't know how to ask or what to you know because, yeah, like you don't want to make me sad, Well, yeah, I get, I totally get that yeah.
Speaker 2:So I always tell people like just ask, yeah, because, even especially for me but a lot of folks that I work with to like it can be kind of triggering when they think about a loved one or someone, especially in the throes of it, like when my mom was at a really low point. Yeah, it's heavy, yeah. People would just they'd say like how's your mom? And it felt kind of like you know, they didn't, they just they didn't know how, what else to ask or what to, and so I think a great question is just kind of like how are you today? Or do you, are you missing your mom? Or like hey, you said that it was your mom's birthday, like last month, like how was that?
Speaker 2:You know, like the more specific questions the better. But then you can also add a caveat of like I was thinking about you, I'd love to hear more about your mom. If you don't want to talk about it, that's great, but just know like I'm a person you can always come to to talk about her, because sometimes I just I like talking about her, yeah, and but but I fully get it's hard for people. So I love, I think, specific, the more specific questions are better. Like yeah, how are you today? Um yeah, just specific questions, and I love talking about her.
Speaker 1:Not everyone does, but I, I do and it's a way that you can process through your emotions too, and I think it creates a stronger bond between you and and that person who, who asked or who took the time to to think I I think that's important right of even like holidays or anniversaries that come up, and things like that of just taking the time, like as a support system of someone who is is healing that. Just, you know, checking in, like you said, I think that's you can be direct, and don't you think it's always better to ask and then be like you know what? I'm not ready to talk about it yet.
Speaker 1:But they at least know that you are a person that they can talk to.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly Because I would never. But I mean, maybe it's because I'm at a, you know, I'm a therapist.
Speaker 1:I'm at this stage in my life, you're okay. Yeah, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to talk to you about it if I don't want to talk about it, and but I think some people do feel like, oh, I have to talk about my mom, but it's uncomfortable or sad, like so I hope, if you know those of you listening, if you do feel that way, like that is a very healthy thing for you to be able to establish for yourself. Of like, if you don't want to talk about them or you're not ready, don't, but when you are ready, it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or even like okay, well, what would help me get to a point where I could talk to them because, or talk about them, because that's a part of a healing process too? So that would be maybe a nudge in a direction to find a therapist or find a counselor that you do feel comfortable talking to. I think that will give you the strength and maybe in a non-judgmental setting too, yes, because it's a safe space for you to really unload whatever you're feeling.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, because it's I love like, yeah, my siblings are probably the people that understand me the most with this right, because you know, I have a brother and a sister who are also awesome and we understand each other and it's great when I want to talk to them and I want to be understood and I want to be like I miss mom today. This sucks, it's not fair. You know our kids like we all think about, you know our kids missing her, and that is one avenue.
Speaker 2:But then, yeah, if I want to maybe be a little crude or mean or yell, or like my therapist is the one that I go to because she's she has that space for me and it's like I don't need to, I don't need to be understood, I just need to be heard, be heard exactly and like. So that is a great way, but it does. It requires that mindfulness of me checking in to say what do I need right now?
Speaker 1:yeah, and meeting that need and also how, like healing isn't linear right, like there's so many things throughout a grief journey whether or not you have lost someone to cancer, it's there's such an ups and downs, like there's trauma that comes from, you know, going through that with someone that you love or watching it happen. And even if you know your story is different than someone else's, you still went through something and so it's good to talk about those things with, like you said, where you can navigating cancer personally or with a loved one.
Speaker 2:Know that you don't have to do it alone.
Speaker 1:Therapy can be a place to process, to breathe and to heal, and if you don't know where to get started with therapy, you can reach out to our EAP services, VEST, to connect with a therapist. Today and again, Lindsay, I have to thank you. You were amazing, you were. Thank you for sharing your story. I know that that's a, it's a big part of who you are, and I feel so grateful that you were vulnerable in sharing it. So I yeah, I appreciate you. So thank you guys for listening and we'll catch you next time. Bye.