198 | Scott Jenkins | Ultra Hallucinations | Surprise guest call in!

In this episode, we welcome Scott Jenkins (27:55), an ultra runner from the UK who shares his incredible journey from running in the UK to participating in ultra marathons in the US. Scott discusses his experiences at the National Running Show, the challenges and triumphs of his Boston to Austin run, and the lessons he's learned through ultra running. He also shares insights from his recent race, the Arizona Monster 300, and emphasizes the importance of community support and proper race preparation. In this engaging conversation, the hosts and guests explore the emotional and physical challenges of ultra running, sharing personal experiences from races like the Cocodona 250. They discuss the importance of maintaining perspective, the role of community support, and the lessons learned from both successes and failures in racing. The conversation also highlights the significance of proper nutrition, particularly salt intake, and the emotional journey that runners experience as they approach the finish line. Future goals and bucket list races are also discussed, emphasizing the continuous growth and learning that comes with being an ultra runner. In this engaging conversation, Scott J shares his experiences from running marathons and ultra races, reflecting on the lessons learned and the importance of community. The discussion transitions into a light-hearted exploration of horror stories, revealing personal preferences and fears. Scott also discusses his participation in the Triple Crown of 200s, emphasizing the challenges and triumphs of ultra running. The conversation highlights the significance of charity work in running, particularly with Operation Smile, and concludes with a focus on embracing happiness and adventure in life.

During the Tros, Six Star surprises Knute with a unexcepted guest as Carolina joins the pod after she was promoted to "Social Media and PR Manger" for Six Star Erika. They got to know Carolina, her love for Ghost Train, Taylor Swift, her friendship with Yuki and much more!

Chapters

00:00 Intro | Thunder Chicken!
09:28 Eric's Eventful Week: Gout and Car Accident
11:34 Surprise  Carolina: The Social Media Manager
14:30 Budding Friendship: Carolina and Erika
17:50 Karaoke Dreams and Fun with Friends
19:11 Content Creation and Social Media Goals
23:36 Exploring Viral Trends and Influencers
27:53 Scott Jenkins | Guest Segment
35:15 Boston to Austin
52:43 Arizona Monster 300
01:04:20 Triple Crown of 200's
01:29:59 Operation Smile
01:36:21 Chased by a Witch
01:49:35 The Outro with Carolina
01:51:56 Weekend Adventures and Personal Connections
01:56:55 Pop Culture and Celebrity Insights
02:00:10 Running for a Cause
02:01:44 Personal Journey and Motivation
02:03:50 Community Involvement and Volunteering
02:05:37 Overcoming Self-Doubt in Running
02:06:39 Emotional Moments in Races
02:12:12 Friendship and Support in the Running Community
02:15:12 Inviting Special Guests to Dinner
02:18:40 Hot Takes for 2026
02:22:25 Embracing Happiness and Kindness
02:24:24 Wrap-Up and Sign-Offs
 

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Don't Fear The Code Brown and Don't Forget To Stretch!

Transcript

Eric (00:55)
What's up everybody? And welcome to episode 198 of the On the Runs podcast. And gobble gobble you feisty thunder chicken. This is the week all the kids come home from college and fill the local bars the night before y'all dress up like turkeys and trot around town with all our neighbors before stuffing our faces with that butterball mom grabbed at Market Basket a month ago because it was half off and she kept it in the freezer a whole time. But first, before America trots across the country and goes into a food coma,

I must say hello to my kick-ass Rockstar co-host, six-star Erika. What's up?

Erika (01:31)
You never cease to amaze me with your intros. Feisty thunder chicken. Like what the hell?

Eric (01:36)
Ficy Thunder Chicken.

You know what that's a nickname? That's a nickname for a wild male turkey or a wild... Let's see here. nope. I got... I couldn't figure what Butterball was earlier. So I was like Googling what's the brand. A Thunder Chicken is a nickname for wild turkeys, especially when they are large. Show you large Thunder Chickens. You like that? Yeah. Happy Turkey Trot Week, everybody. Thanksgiving! Time to be thankful.

Erika (01:54)
⁓ man. That has a nice ring to it. I did. enjoyed it. And I'm looking forward. Yes. I'm very much looking

forward to it.

we off?

Eric (02:07)
are you?

Erika (02:07)
I am good. This has been an excellent weekend, especially for running. And I got to see some of my favorite people. So I can't complain. How was your weekend?

Eric (02:16)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Especially for running. Like,

like, just, I would not have known you went running if it wasn't for others posting for you. Here we go again. Another week. Content Erika here. Non-existent.

Erika (02:26)
Just just let it go man. You'll

see things. That's why I've hired myself a social media manager, okay? Carolina is my girl

Eric (02:32)
hope you're paying them, but they need to be posting.

We need to thank Tara Pterodactyl for actually sending me the video so I could post it on our page. Because you typically have Rachel or Carolina posting on their page and tagging me. like, I need to be posting reels on ours. Like, I try, I try. And I've been trying for 198 episodes to get you doing content. Not gonna lie, the other two wouldn't have done it either. Okay.

Erika (02:40)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, she had it, so.

Next time.

do the content when other people handle it. If other

people are doing the editing and stuff, that's when I'll be like, sure, I'll be on the camera. I just don't want to have anything to do with it after. I know.

Eric (03:07)
You need to learn. ⁓

yes, you need, you keep talking about, I'm waiting for that podcast, may I come in so I can sit first class if I'm ever going to travel across the world for a marathon one day. Well, it's going to happen if you do some extra work there, kiddo.

Erika (03:21)
We gotta start getting some money. Yeah,

I will be surprised if I'm making that kind of money. Yes.

Eric (03:30)
I digress. It's just ever long. It's just the ongoing story of Erika never doing content. And then someone sends me a video of her doing a run or something or like she just crushed this. And I'm like, had no clue. No, not even a story. And in fact.

Erika (03:31)
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

⁓

right, for the record, I gotta cut

you off because I was literally sitting next to Carolina when she posted that and she beat me to it by like a couple of seconds. I was like, I should probably put something up too. So that's why if you go to my stories, I put that first and then I shared her story. So we have fun. We have fun. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Eric (03:57)
Because you know it's coming.

because you know it's coming. You do, you do.

I was just texting Jay Parent actually, and he apologized for not inviting me on that run last week. And I said, I was just giving her hard time to you, and he goes, no, she deserves it. Don't go soft. Yeah, I could read you the quote, quote for quote, Jay Parent said, don't let her get away with that shit.

Erika (04:09)
Mm-hmm.

Uh-huh.

yeah, thanks Jay. Throw me under the bus.

boy.

Eric (04:33)
⁓ wrong one!

Erika (04:34)
people,

I'm not going to let, I'm not going to invite people to somebody else's house. That's not, that's not okay. If it was here at my house, everyone can come. I don't care, but I'm not inviting people. Like have you even met Hester? Have you met her yet? Exactly. So next time. It's not my fault. Shut up, Jay.

Eric (04:51)
No, honestly no. But how could I meet her if I'm not invited?

Well, I invited you to a Turkey

Trot this week, and I think you are going to jet up the highway for the first time in the history of this podcast. I'm going to not drive more than 30 minutes to a Turkey Trot. You're going to come to my neck of the woods and we're going to run the Fishacat Turkey Trot here in Manchester. The Millennium running one starts at Fishacat Stadium, ends at Fishacat Stadium. You're going to be there. Tara Taradactyl is going to be there. I'm going to be there. My sister Hanna is going to be there.

Erika (05:05)
Yes.

you

Mm-hmm.

She is!

Eric (05:29)
And very likely,

weather permitting and everything, as long as it's not crappy out, Adaline will be there. And I hope everybody else is there too.

Erika (05:34)
OK, weather's looking good so far.

Yes, I know there's a good crew going, and the weather looks good. I mean, it may be a little cold, but I don't think there's any rain in the forecast. Knock on wood. All the wood.

Eric (05:44)
Let's check. Yeah, let's check. speaking

of the whole content thing, I've actually saved a couple and sent to you like, this is easy. It's going to be easy to do. It's fun. You just have to be the one behind the camera again. And it, it, ties right into this whole, you're not doing content thing.

Erika (05:58)
be behind the

camera all you want. Just you guys do the editing. And I love how you sent a thing. So I do have a TikTok account. I don't post on it because it's on my backup phone because I just don't want to have the app on my phone. So I have an account and I like things and I'll share them from the other phone. yeah. You're like, my God, when did this happen?

Eric (06:09)
my God, was hilarious.

So I've been,

yeah, so Tara Teradactyl has not been fired from TikTok. It's just Riverside has made things so much easier to share reels and stuff on TikTok. So Riverside is a platform we record on and I create all the reels on Riverside. Before I'd have to download the reel and then upload it to Instagram and upload it to TikTok or YouTube and all that. So I was just like, Tara when I download it,

Erika (06:42)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (06:46)
and make it an Instagram. I'm just going send it to you and you do what you want with it, however you please. But now there's basically this one button. I don't even have to download the edit I make. I just click a button and it gets uploaded to TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. Not all at the same time. I'm still waiting for that feature where I can just do one click and it goes to all the platforms I want. But I've been more on there. TikTok is weird. It's not as, I actually feel like it's elementary compared to Instagram.

Erika (06:54)
Perfect.

That would be great.

Mm.

Eric (07:16)
Like just the whole platform, the backdrop, the way everything, the symbology and all that.

Erika (07:19)
honestly not a fan. Yeah,

I'm not a fan of TikTok. Like it makes it more difficult to find things that you want to look at. Like yeah, that for you Paige? Nah.

Eric (07:25)
I don't even get it. Like I said the other day, I found you

and I took a screenshot. I go, how the hell do I actually add you? Because I think it was actually taking longer to upload. I was already following you apparently, but it said you had zero followers and followed zero people. I'm like, but where is the plus key to add this person as a follower? And it was just, it's so foreign and I don't like the white backdrop. It just feels so like Windows 95.

Erika (07:56)
Do you just have like dark mode on?

Eric (07:57)
It does. I know some people love it. I know Jess loves it. Ali G

loves it. Speaking of Ali G, she saw that was on TikTok and she asked me to comment on her Jonas Brothers TikTok. She had it. Ali G had a week, by the way. She had a week. So the Jonas Brothers shared her TikTok of the concert. One of them might have been Kevin or maybe she likes Kevin the best. I don't know. So, yeah, they shared it.

Erika (08:09)
Mm-hmm.

my god. She sure did. Joe Jonas, I think it was Joe Jonas specifically. Yes, yes. I think it was Joe. I feel like it was Joe.

Eric (08:26)
and then she wants it to keep going viral. So well over 100,000 views and all that. She asked me to comment on it. So I commented like I was there. I go, best time ever. Wish I could go back. And then I commented on another one. So now the algorithm thinks I left the Jonas Brothers. I don't even know one Jonas Brothers song.

Erika (08:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yup.

that is the best twist.

The Jonas Brothers are great. And by the way, they're coming to Manchester next month. And I'm very sad because their tickets are very expensive.

Eric (08:53)
but you have nothing

to pay for in life. Why can't you go see the Jonas Brothers? What are you talking about? I have a mortgage and three kids. I have two cars. I paid them off like a responsible adult.

Erika (08:56)
Yes, I do. I have a mortgage.

car. Well, that's that's on you.

Do you have car payments for them all, Mr. 250,000?

Well, so sorry, I don't want to cough up $38,000.

Eric (09:14)
Well, I was

in fear of having to buy a new car. I got in a car accident. I had a week.

Erika (09:18)
yeah?

Right. You had an interesting week between

that and your toe. Are we talking about your toe?

Eric (09:28)
Yeah, where should we start? Should we start from the beginning? Let's, let's give me the Wayne's World. Give me the Wayne's World.

Erika (09:30)
Might as well go for it. Fill everybody in.

Eric (09:36)
All right, last Monday when we recorded the TROs, I said like, I did something to my toe. I stubbed it or whatever. It'll be fine the next day. It was not fine the next day. I didn't even go to work the next day. I couldn't

So I stayed home and the boys were here and they were all over me. You know, you don't realize how much they use you as leverage to climb up on the couch and stuff.

and they're like using my foot and I'm screaming every time they hit my toe. My toe was so sensitive and painful. This is the outside of like the big toe on my right foot of like this joint where it kind of sticks out. I couldn't even put my foot in my UFO sandal. It wouldn't fit. It was so swollen. I start Googling everything because Dr. Google, you know, it's just it's extremely accurate. It's extremely accurate.

Erika (09:59)
Oof.

Okay.

That's a dangerous game to play, Yeah.

Eric (10:27)
Listen,

this isn't 2004 anymore with WebMD. This is 2025. Google knows what you're talking about. If you put in a really good description. So it came down to two things. I either have one, a stress fracture, which I don't believe is the case, or I have two, gout. And I strongly believe this was gout. It was so painful. I couldn't.

Erika (10:36)
AI.

Mm-hmm. OK.

Eric (10:52)
Tuesday, Wednesday were awful. The best I ever felt was when I was driving because my foot was always in this position and the toe is facing up, so the blood was coming down and I'm doing the icing, I'm trying to keep my foot elevated, I'm doing everything. I took some Aviprofen, I learned what an NSAID was and then I finally went to urgent care on Thursday thinking to myself, I should really go. Whoa!

Erika (11:21)
Ladies and gentlemen, my social media manager just arrived in the studio.

Eric (11:25)
Hold

on, I need to give her a proper introduction. We have Carolina on the podcast.

Erika (11:34)
the way I love your hat. Thank you for wearing it.

Carolina (11:35)
Thank you.

Eric (11:38)
You're a little. It says it says you're a little. I love it. I love

Carolina (11:44)
That's exactly what it says.

Eric (11:48)
Carolina, let me ask you a question. Have you ever had gout?

Erika (11:47)
I hope you don't mind, I sent her the link today, so.

Eric (11:51)
Carolina, let me ask you a question. Have you ever had gout?

Erika (11:51)
I hope you don't mind, I sent her the link today, so.

Carolina (11:54)
Have I ever had gout? No. Mm-mm. I feel like you need...

Eric (11:56)
my God, it's awful. It's so bad.

Erika (11:58)
He's regaling

us with his story of his past week and how he has not had fun with his toe.

Eric (12:03)
No, it's been so painful. To finish real quick, the doctor gave me prednisone. We determined it's one or the other, but if the prednisone works, it was gout. If it doesn't work, I have a stress fracture in my big toe. It's the gout. I feel great now. I'm taking steroids. I am officially DQ'd from any potential Boston qualifier in the near future because I'm on steroids now, but gout was awful. And then that whole time I got in a car accident, I got rear-ended by some cutie field hockey player.

Erika (12:20)
you

Carolina (12:22)
you

Eric (12:33)
Her car was destroyed, my truck just had a little paint on the trailer hitch, but I did get it checked out to make sure the frame was good, the frame's good, so I'm not buying a new car yet. Carolina!

Erika (12:43)
He had one hell of a week.

Carolina (12:43)
Yes.

Eric!

Eric (12:46)
My favorite, my favorite. And you know, I said her name right, by the way, Erika, that is news to come out next week.

Erika (12:52)
She already knows! I filled her in!

Carolina (12:56)
She told me she came clean.

Eric (12:56)
I always mess up

words and names. Erika finally did it. It was so good, Carolina. You're gonna love it. Because she first was like, ⁓ I'm spoiling the lead here, but she was first like, you can never, you have to edit out, you have to. And I was like, well, a month will pass. You guys will hear this because it was so classic. It's next week. I didn't. No, I haven't edited that part of the episode yet. It's so good. How are you? What's going on? Are you here?

Erika (13:01)
you

Please no.

He didn't cut it out, right? You didn't cut it Of course he didn't cut it out. So that's what makes it funny.

Carolina (13:20)
You

Eric (13:26)
Let me ask you, are you here to defend Erika? Are you here to announce your representation of her being her social media content creator, which then Tara Pterodactyl might fight you on that? I don't know. Have you ever thought a dinosaur?

Carolina (13:37)
What the fuck? ⁓

Erika (13:39)
She's my personal social media manager. Tara can keep the on the run social media account. Yes.

Eric (13:45)
Okay, alright.

Carolina (13:46)
Yup. Yeah,

I'm just an Erika Hamill, social media director.

Eric (13:51)
So what's she paying you?

Carolina (13:53)
As much as I get for running ghost train aid stations.

Erika (13:53)
In love and hugs.

Eric (14:01)
⁓ Well, I don't think that's enough. I don't think that's enough, you know, because you're gonna learn the hard way. You're gonna be asking her to do things and she's gonna just be like, it's hard. I don't want to.

Erika (14:02)
She does it from the goodness of her heart.

Carolina (14:12)
No,

Erika (14:12)
you

Carolina (14:13)
I'm just gonna do the things for her. That's...

Eric (14:15)
⁓

Well...

Erika (14:17)
See, we just

need to hang out and she'll be like, I should probably take a picture. And I'll be like, good idea. Let's go.

Carolina (14:22)
Like I'm not, that's not

a problem for me.

Eric (14:25)
I do

love that you do it. I love how much you two are hanging out. You two are hanging out a lot lately.

Carolina (14:30)
Mm-hmm.

Erika (14:31)
We're

besties. So this brings us in one of my notes, my very few show notes that I made this past week was that I started watching and completely binge watched Nobody Wants This because I love Adam Brody so very much. And that was one thing that we bonded on and then like little things here were like, my God, me too. my God, I love that too. So we are destined to be friends and yeah, we just started hanging out some more.

Eric (14:45)
Yes.

Carolina (14:57)
Yeah.

Like what did we?

Eric (14:58)
When did you

fall in love with Adam Brody the first time?

Carolina (15:02)
the OC. OC.

Eric (15:03)
Yes, what a good show, right?

Erika (15:04)
Mm. Absolutely.

Eric (15:06)
Have you ever turned that back on to watch again? It's on HBO Max, by the way.

Carolina (15:09)
Yes.

Yes. It was a little guilty pleasure.

Eric (15:13)
fun because you go back and you see the things that we had in high school and there's like flip phones or that was actually before flip phones and the backpacks. Yeah, that's where you learned about water polo.

Erika (15:19)
Puka shells. California stuff.

Carolina (15:21)
Yup.

Erika (15:24)
We learned a lot from Anne Keene also, the water polo thing. I knew nothing about water polo except from the OC until Anne helped us. But yeah, good stuff.

Eric (15:34)
So I think if you two are hanging out a lot now, Carolina, like you two are on the honeymoon phase. You haven't gotten annoyed with each other yet. You you two are pretty happy right now. How long do we think this phase will last? And then my second follow-up is will you get Erika to sing karaoke with you?

Erika (15:39)
you

Carolina (15:54)
that's next. She has been to open mic night with me when we talked about karaoke. So I think that's next. And then that's probably what I think that's where Eric is going to be like, I don't think we should be friends anymore.

Erika (15:57)
Mm-hmm.

I'd be more inclined for that.

can dump you. You can dump me, but I'm not going anywhere.

Carolina (16:14)
I would never dump you. We also found out today, like her favorite color is purple, also purple. Like it was just meant to be. This was just meant to be. It's Kismet.

Eric (16:25)
That's amazing. ⁓ What would be your karaoke song? Like if you were singing and there was a song that needed a partner, what song would you pick to pull Erika up on stage?

Carolina (16:26)
Yes.

Erika (16:26)
you

Carolina (16:34)
⁓

I forget I always forget what the name of the song is but it's the no There's a song from like the 80s or the 90s and someone recently did it and I always forget what the name of the song is

Erika (16:51)
Is it bad that my first thought was like Captain and Tenille? We could be the captain. I can't remember even what that one song is, but like why that popped into my head. don't even know.

Carolina (16:56)
Sure.

Um, it's the song that's like, let them call me crazy. Um, oh no, no, I forgot the words. That's the song.

Erika (17:08)
Yes.

Eric (17:10)
his pants.

Erika (17:11)
God, I

don't remember what that is either. Yeah.

Carolina (17:11)
What's what? Let them call me crazy. That's what they say. I don't remember

either, but I've always wanted to do that song. We'll do that one.

Erika (17:22)
figured you would choose some Taylor song and I could just be the background person. Because you have a beautiful voice. I can carry a tune, I don't have the confidence behind it to really carry it.

Carolina (17:29)
You- you... Aw, thank you.

I mean, I will always do Taylor Swift songs, always, but I feel like you could carry yourself quite well. It'd be fine.

Erika (17:48)
Well,

here's the real question. So we have been hanging out, but we've also brought in Rob Fierro. And I cannot picture him doing any sort of karaoke, can you?

Carolina (17:56)
Yes.

⁓ I feel like we would have to have shots beforehand and then maybe.

Erika (18:07)
Is he a shot

guy? Like, I've seen him drink a few beers, and so we know that he can drink, but shots. I feel like we'd have to spike his beer with something, or I don't know.

Carolina (18:19)
You don't

have No, sure.

Eric (18:21)
My beer?

Erika (18:22)
No, no,

no. were talking how, so we've been hanging out, but we've also been hanging out with Rob Fierro. So he's the Ghost Train Race Director. Did you get to meet him when you were there last time?

Eric (18:30)
Yes.

Not officially. He came over and talked to ⁓ Ultra Chad and stroked him off a little bit for coming to the East Coast, and then he said, gotta go. So.

Carolina (18:39)
Hahahaha

Erika (18:41)
Okay,

but anyways, we're trying to think if he would be on board with doing any karaoke and I can't picture it, but it would be kind of silly to see what he could do.

Eric (18:49)
But what

about karaoke in the backseat of an Uber?

Erika (18:54)
I would do it.

Carolina (18:54)
I would love

to do that. That would be so much fun. I've seen the reels of that and I'm like, that would be just a riot.

Eric (19:01)
It looks like a blast. If it was me and a couple guys, would pick Bohemian Rhapsody. I love this one where these couple dudes picked ⁓ Friday by Katy Perry. I think that's Katy Perry, right? Yeah. There's this guy, you get in the back of his Uber and he goes, I have a surprise for you. You pick any song and then you pick a song and then he turns on like these LED lights in the back, gives you Bluetooth microphones and you sing karaoke. It looks like a blast.

Carolina (19:06)
Yes.

that's a good one. Yeah.

Erika (19:12)
yeah, last Friday night

or whatever, yep.

Carolina (19:28)
That would be fun.

Eric (19:30)
I think we need to do that in Manchur Vegas. Like we can just get the minivan.

Erika (19:35)
Are you driving?

Eric (19:36)
Yeah, and just get content. could do it in Six Star Mobile, too.

Carolina (19:39)
It's all about the content.

Erika (19:40)
That would be really fun.

As long as I have my social media manager, pay for the lay-down scene. ⁓

Eric (19:45)
Then you could pay for that lay down seat. Yeah. So, so what are some of your goals?

I'm back because Tommy had a minor code brown. I want to say minor. It was like just a streak. ⁓ But what are your goals, Carolina? Now that you're representing six star Erika in her PR department slash taking some of the content.

Carolina (20:07)
to make sure that Erika's having fun, so I will take the pictures and the videos for her.

Eric (20:13)
Okay, are you gonna make her do silly things or are you just gonna do it like a story? Here's Erika, mile 13, now Erika's at mile six, seven.

Erika (20:13)
She gets me. She just gets me.

Carolina (20:22)
I mean, I think it depends on the race, right? Because like, Nodgeview, if it's a silly time, then we'll do silliness. But if she's running like a marathon and going for a PR, then it's going to be like, ⁓ all right, we're seeing her at mile 13 and she's hitting her goals and...

Eric (20:37)
I love it.

We're gonna have to give you the admin credentials to the Instagram Because the, yes, yes. Because the big, well you need to tell me this because I would have like, I just have to be on my phone at the same time and give you the code that gets emailed to me. But anyways, we could do this because the thing for me is this content has to be on our account, not Erika's.

Erika (20:44)
If you remember what the password is. I can't get into it. can't get into it.

Carolina (20:54)
Yeah.

Eric (21:05)
because because ⁓

Carolina (21:08)
Right, right.

Erika (21:20)
Hmm.

Carolina (21:28)
you

Eric (21:33)
work on that growth for 2026 and this stuff's gonna help and I need Erika on board. Like, it's a little bit of a joke, but it's also not a joke. I want her doing it.

Erika (21:41)
I know you mean

well and it's just I don't know I'll get around to it But it is just it's hard for me because I want to be present I want to be hanging out with everybody and I want to enjoy myself and it's very stressful for me to To have to worry about posting shit because especially if it's a video God if I have to edit anything It's gonna take 45 minutes, and then I'm like hold on don't talk I got a

Eric (22:07)
Will you take the content, you edit it later?

Erika (22:10)
Yeah, but then I'm home and I like, I want to spend time with Brandon and I don't know. thanks.

Eric (22:15)
He doesn't need you I was actually gonna ask like I've

done yard work all week and I was like gonna say when you go off running every week is he like are you ever gonna do housework or something like raking leaves and all that cuz I was like I What does somebody ⁓ you're bougie someone so you can't afford this stuff She says she can't afford things and she has come on someone else come and rake and suck up her leaves

Erika (22:26)
Well, we don't have to do that.

Carolina (22:29)
You

Erika (22:34)
live in a condo complex.

It's an HOA fee, dude. Like, come on. I am not rich. Trust me. How about this? That's a finger. I can lift that one, right?

Eric (22:43)
you fancy.

Carolina (22:44)
just be at some pinkies up.

Eric (22:46)
Fancy.

There you go!

For it. It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. Not sharing that though. That doesn't do good for the algorithm.

Erika (22:56)
my gosh!

Eric (23:02)
Erika likes to send me, see here's the thing guys, she'll send me pictures or videos of her giving me the bird. I'm like I can't do anything with that!

Erika (23:02)
he's probably like, god damn it.

That was my social media manager. No, I'm just kidding. That was my idea though. was totally my idea.

Eric (23:19)
while we have Carolina here, okay, I'll go through my list of notes I have in the Tros because I take notes daily. I jump in the dock, Erika doesn't either, so we're just gonna keep bashing her here. But you know who Kevin James is, but have you ever heard of Matt Taylor?

Erika (23:37)
because you sent us a thing about it.

Eric (23:40)
Matt Taylor is a fourth grade art teacher who looks, acts, and sounds just like Kevin James, and he makes the most beautiful art, and he has gone viral on Instagram and social media. Now, spoiler alert, it really is Kevin James. It has to be, but it had everybody guessing. I don't know if you saw this. And I got down and dirty with it. I did took a deep dive into the internet. I think it's actually he's prepping.

Carolina (23:58)
So...

Eric (24:08)
for a movie he's doing next year and this all ties into it. And you gotta check this out. Just check out on Instagram, it's like the real Matt Taylor. He's a fourth grade art teacher. You never really see his students. I think one real had him in a random classroom, but he makes though, like this is Kevin James doing the artwork. It's in fast forward, but it's not like edited out. Cause you see him in the frame the whole time. He's an artist. He's so good.

Carolina (24:17)
the real thing.

Erika (24:35)
You really did do a deep dive. I looked at it I was like, that has to be him. was too close. But I mean, I don't know Kevin James well enough to be able to distinguish any like, oh, that's like a freckle that shouldn't be there. I don't know. But if you actually looked into this and it proves to be right, will give you a little bit of a round of applause there.

Carolina (24:40)
It was.

Eric (24:56)
The first couple, I had the same thought. go, ⁓ what a lookalike. What do they call it? A doppelganger or something? Yeah. I was like, wow, what a lookalike. We were talking about the Jonas Brothers too, Carolina. Do you like the Jonas Brothers?

Erika (25:02)
Doppelganger.

Carolina (25:10)
I never got into the Jonas Brothers. Like, I don't dislike them. ⁓

Eric (25:12)
You neither. I don't even know a song, but

they're all over my algorithm. And then the other thing I want to tell you, since you're here, this is great because I thought about you when I was typing my intro, and I actually thought about you when I deleted my original intro because I was like...

Erika (25:27)
He already gave me shit,

by the way, because he saw that you posted it he's like, you didn't do it, she did it first. And I was like, mm.

Eric (25:34)
But I want to read you what I wrote for my first intro because this has been a hot thing lately on Instagram and in TikTok. Everybody's doing the dance. So it started me saying, what's up everybody? I was going to say, cause it's snow today, was going to say, it's snowing baby. So keep 100 on the land, the sea, the sky, pledge allegiance with your hands, your team, your vibes. I don't care where the hell you've been cause you know it's time for the On the Runs podcast. And I got to say hello to my kick-ass rock star.

You know, co-host Six Star Africa.

Carolina (26:06)
love it. I love it.

Eric (26:07)
That was gonna

be my intro until I realized it was gobble gobble week and I came up with the term thunder chicken.

Erika (26:13)
Feisty thunder chicken.

Eric (26:15)
feisty thunder chicken.

Carolina (26:15)
The under

chicken.

Eric (26:17)
But hey, let's,

let's jibber jabber more. I'm not going to kick you off. Let's, everyone's probably just like, okay, enough of this crap. Let's get to our guest. Let's introduce our guest and then we can just talk, talk fun with Carolina, the rest of the podcast. Since you surprised me.

Erika (26:29)
Yeah, we got to talk about our weekend this weekend. I saw her both days.

I saw her Saturday and Sunday. So we got some talking. We got some talking to do.

Eric (26:35)
Well, you're besties now. But we have

a cool guest. We have a really cool guest, and I've had fun the last couple weeks editing the last few episodes of the year because the next few episodes we recorded months ago. And it was fun because I got to kind of go back to August versus doing it a day or two later. We got this wicked awesome guy, his name is Scott Jenkins, and Erika got a little horny over him the whole time.

Erika (27:01)
All right, there are reasons for this. He's an awesome, awesome ultra runner. He had some fantastic stories, especially about hallucinations. And that's a really hot topic with ultra runners, especially being awake for ungodly amounts of hours. Especially Carolina can relate to that, even though just doing aid station stuff. She's awake for way too long helping us out. But he also has a British accent. And you know me, I love one of those. Yep, so.

Carolina (27:25)
⁓ sold. Sold.

Eric (27:27)
Don't worry, Abby, I

was just referring to the ⁓ horny over ultra talk. Abby is his amazing wife who set us up with getting him on the podcast, by the way, gotta shout her out. But it was a ton of fun. Like this was, his stories were great. So you guys are gonna love him. What an ultra runner. Scott Jenkins on the On the Runs podcast. Enjoy this and we'll see you on the other side.

Erika (27:32)
That was the first part of it.

So much fun.

Eric (27:55)
Our next guest on the pod was originally from across the pond, but he came over here to the East coast. He's a bad-ass ultra runner and we're wicked excited to talk to him and hear some amazing ultra stories. Scott Jenkins. Welcome to the on the runs podcast. What's up, buddy?

Scott J (28:10)
It's pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me on guys. It's so cool to come on the show and just talk about some of the stories we've accumulated over the years through Ultra Running. So I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to be in America and just really enjoying the experience so far. It's been great. Well, thank you.

Erika (28:24)
Yeah.

Eric (28:24)
Yes!

Erika (28:28)
we're so happy to have you, Scott. I think it's so

awesome. I love when we get more ultra runners on the podcast, just because this is a newer territory for me. And I just like to meet people who have similar experiences and, you know how misery loves company. I love to know that I'm not alone in the misery.

Scott J (28:44)
I was just going to say, it because

you alter runners are slightly unhinged and a little bit crazy that you know the stories are going to be little bit bonkers? That's why.

Erika (28:49)
Yes.

the best kind of stories.

Eric (28:55)
Yeah.

Now, hey, you're, you're, live in the States now. You're in New Jersey, I think, but you're originally from the UK. And when I was looking into things and I love how Instagram has highlights, you don't usually see people posting on them, but I watched a couple of yours. We're friends with the Boston run show, raccoon media, and they have this huge run show in the UK called the national run show. and you've gone to it. I even think you've been a big part of it. Is that correct? Have you been?

You've been to the National Running Show, which is huge out there. Tell us about it.

Scott J (29:24)
Yeah,

that is correct. I am very lucky to have been at the national running show twice in the UK and twice in the US. So yeah, I presented up at Heinz Convention Centre twice and twice in the NEC in the UK. And I know the Racoon Media team really well. Mike Seaman, who's the founder of the company, is just such an awesome company. I love what he's doing with those shows. Top look, really good guy.

Erika (29:50)
We are a big fan of Mike over here. He is super cool. yeah, I know that he's got some big stuff coming up. Him and Susie Chan, two of our pod fam, they're going to be doing the Have A Lean 100 this year. And God, I wish I could go out there and crew for them. I don't think that's in the cards, but do you really? Oh, I'm so jealous.

Scott J (29:53)
Yes.

Eric (29:58)
Yeah.

Scott J (30:04)
that would be cool. I know Susie very well as well. We've been out on plenty

of runs together. She's an absolute legend as well. She very kindly paced me in a hundred mile at once. Yeah.

Erika (30:15)
No way!

Eric (30:16)
Not a big deal.

Scott J (30:18)
It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. Although she may have stumbled and done a bit of a forward roll at one point during the evening section somewhere near Reading in the UK, if anyone's familiar with that area. But the National Run show, like it's an incredible opportunity to go and present at that.

Erika (30:29)
no.

Scott J (30:37)
Yeah, so just a quick story, I suppose, to kick us off because we're talking about a story. Back in 2010, myself, my brother and our friend Rusty, we were lucky enough to run 2000 miles from Boston in Massachusetts all the way to Austin in Texas. So we did a marathon a day for 75 days. And when we were picking somewhere to start, we were like, well, might as well just start in a pub. We can have a pint and then be on our way. So we started from a pint, a bar.

over there called McGreevies on Boylston Street Irish Bar. And I didn't know, I didn't know at the time, off we went around 2000 miles and then yeah, back in 2022 and 2023, I got to present at the Run Show and we went in 22. And I was like, oh, I wonder where this place is. I'd love to go to that bar. And it turns out that...

you know, some 22 years late, 12 years later, sorry, ⁓ the bar that we started from was right across the street from the convention center. And I think, you know, younger me, when I left that bar, would never have thought one day of becoming back to talk at the running show USA. So that was a very special moment and something I'm proud of. I also think the proprietor of the bar was probably like, you've been away from this bar for a while. Where have you been? Like, did you just run back? What's going on?

Erika (31:56)
That is the perfect way to start off an incredible running journey. That mileage is just mind blowing at this point, but you got to start it off the fun way. There we go.

Scott J (32:07)
Yeah.

Eric (32:07)
Yeah. Now, now you're here on the East coast. You're in New Jersey. Do you ever make many trips up to Boston?

Scott J (32:14)
I've been to Boston, yeah, because obviously with that run, it's now got a bit of space in my heart, Boston, I've got to say. So like, yeah, I've been there about five or six times now. And every time I go, I still go to that bar and I get a whiskey from the bar, which is there.

Eric (32:29)
Well, I,

well, I know you're going to go to that bar again, but I want to give you a little insider tip here, bar not many people know about, but it's called the green dragon and the bartenders are always Irish from Ireland. So that may, that's what made me think about it, but we like to go to the green dragon before we go to like a Boston Bruins game. It's like, ⁓ seven, eight minute walk from the garden, but it's kind of hidden on some street. That's like.

Scott J (32:36)
Okay. ⁓ I like.

Eric (32:57)
bricks and everything. It's, hidden in the back corner. It's a great little bar, but that's so cool. And then the other thing I wanted to say was, I want to kind of hear your story now. You're from the UK. Like tell us, tell us a little bit who Scott is. know you're over here in the States now, but give us this whole story. Tell fill in the dots here.

Scott J (33:01)
I like that.

well, I don't, I'm still trying to figure out who Scott is, to be honest with you, Eric. mean, if you find out, let me know. ⁓

Eric (33:18)
Yeah.

Erika (33:22)
you

Scott J (33:24)
I would just say that I was a runner when I was in school, middle distance, 800 metres, 1500 metres, never really knew back then. And you probably tell it wasn't like the early 2000s, it was the late 80s, middle of the 90s. And I don't think I ever heard about trail runner, ultra runner at that point in my life. But growing up in Wales, you play a bit of rugby, a bit of football, soccer.

I did that up until the age of 30. Certainly I was playing soccer. I've got a story about soccer in a second, which will make you laugh. So I'll come back to that one. But ⁓ I stopped playing soccer. We lost the cup final. And I was like, do you know what? I'm done with this. I'd prefer to just go out and ⁓ go back to running. So I think it started with the Nephli Half Marathon, which is a small town in West Wales. I grew up in Wales, in Cardiff, Wales.

Erika (33:56)
Yes.

Scott J (34:19)
And yeah, from there, we, myself, my brother, our friend Rusty, we'd met at summer camp, myself and Rusty and my brother, and we wanted to do something to help others. And I remember I was working in a gym in South Wales and this guy came in every week, just once a week for his workout guy called Colin. He'd had a cardiac issue, been through surgery and always like the happiest man on the planet. And I'm like, Colin, why are you so happy? Like chucking it down with rain.

And he said to me, well, know, feel like I've had a second chance at life. didn't land with me straight away, know, ⁓ 30 year olds and thinking, well, you know, what do I want to do with my own life when I look back and hopefully do something that I could be proud of.

That's where we kind of came up with this idea of, let's go and raise some money for the British Heart Foundation. We picked two other charities, like Salute America's Heroes, Help the Heroes. And that was it. We just went out and run 2000 miles from Boston to Austin. yeah, came back from that and went back to my day job. I'd taken all my vacation for two years and went back to my day job.

I just, I don't think I immediately realized, but over time I realized that running had taught me a great deal doing that kind of adventure. And I'm sure many of your listeners will appreciate the learnings of. ⁓

suffering through a bit of hardship, even if it's self-inflicted when you're doing these kind of ultramarathons and long multi-day stuff. You learn so much about yourself. It teaches you, the biggest thing I could say is taught me is about putting problems into perspective and having the confidence to go and do difficult things. And these days I work for a massive corporate company, Johnson & Johnson, I'm very proud to do so. ⁓

but somebody says to me, oh, we need you to come and have a conversation with a difficult customer or somebody's a bit disgruntled. You're like, yeah, it's no problem. If I have to stand on the start line of a race in Death Valley and it's 127 Fahrenheit, that's a little bit more dangerous than going to see somebody who's a little bit disgruntled and I'm sure we can iron things out pretty quickly. it's taught me a lot about myself and how to deal with the hardships that life throws at you as well.

Erika (36:14)
you

That is some serious perspective. Yeah, ultra running definitely gives you a new look on life and it teaches you grit and perseverance and all kinds of different lessons. So, yeah.

Scott J (36:44)
If I may, those wonderful

words that you just alluded to, grit, perseverance, resilience, all of those things, I agree, Ultrarun teaches you. However, it cannot prepare you for this. So last week ⁓ I donned my soccer boots for the first time in 15 years. I was invited to a pickup game and I thought, what's the harm? Actually, it's a bit of hit interval cardio. Can't be that bad.

Erika (37:02)
⁓

Scott J (37:10)
I managed to get through the first game a week ago last Sunday, limping a little bit for Monday and Tuesday, thinking, ⁓ you know, can't quite do what 20 year old Scott used to do. And then I went back yesterday morning for another kickabout. was like, I really enjoyed that. Let's go again. That'd be brilliant. So I went back for a kickabout yesterday and I got three passes into the warm up. was like, ⁓

Erika (37:19)
no. ⁓

Scott J (37:37)
I think ⁓ my groin's gone. I'm going to have to go and sit this one out, lads. Sorry. So all those wonderful attributes which you mentioned a minute ago, they don't carry over to other sports, unfortunately.

Erika (37:40)
No!

Sadly

Eric (37:52)
Yeah.

Erika (37:53)
no, apparently. ⁓

Eric (37:55)
I got to tell you, I kind of just related to that for a second. I'm a big hockey guy, Scott grew up playing my entire life and everything. And up until about a year ago, I was refereeing some very top level college hockey in the whole New England area and high school. was on skates and on the ice four days a week and I didn't get to play for quite a while. And then one day I'm like, I'm going to play because

Scott J (38:00)
⁓ awesome.

Eric (38:18)
I'll be fine. skate all the time and I'm like really good at it. I'm really good at reffing and I'm involved in the entire game. Total different game when I was trying to play. I was like, I suck. I'm not good anymore. All this skating has not prepped me for that. And I just, wow, that kind of related there on that story with running, ultra running and you in soccer. But I feel like I can't skip over this Boston to Austin run. We just, yeah.

Scott J (38:20)
Yeah, yeah, okay.

you

Erika (38:43)
Doesn't that have a great ring to it? Boston to Austin.

Scott J (38:46)
I think that's what

I went with it. It's like, two fun things.

Eric (38:47)
It really does. And we just had this guest on

a couple of months ago, Justin DeFlemmary. He ran the entire length of New Hampshire from the Canadian border to the Southern border to New Hampshire. And he kept talking about his team, everyone who was there to support him. Tell us a little bit about this Boston to Austin run, not just like running a marathon a day plus, but everything. Tell us about your team, the people, how do you do this?

Scott J (38:55)
Amazing.

It was amazing, it was 2010, like it's, I think iPhone generation one or two and forget about having an international call plan. There's no such thing at that stage. we'd literally have to connect to the wifi every morning. And we started, we pulled up the directions, we printed them off in the hotel that we were staying in. And that was it, six fixed directions for the rest of the day. And we were lucky, we were supported by our friends, John and Adam, who came along for the whole trip and they drove a support vehicle.

Erika (39:35)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (39:41)
And yeah, I think, you know, you have lots of learnings along the way about those kinds of situations, but it certainly gave me a great deal of confidence to, and not overconfidence, but like ⁓ a confidence to just go out and push yourself to want to do more and challenge yourself in life. then there were so many different stories that happened along the way from Boston to Austin, like many times we had no idea where we would stay for the evening. We'd finish running, you know,

Erika (40:10)
Hmm.

Scott J (40:11)
might be getting dark. We're like miles away from the nearest town. We just put a marker down, right? That's where we finished. We've got to come back here tomorrow. Then we'd go into town and, you know, we're young guys. We didn't have loads of money to be thrown around on accommodation each night. So we finished running. No stretching, zero stretching, which is probably why I pulled my groin yesterday. We digress. You go into town and then I'd walk into hotels and try to negotiate a room for the night or get a disc.

and explain what we doing for charity so that we'd have somewhere to sleep or, you know, trying to just live kind of meal to meal or accommodation to accommodation. It's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all of the trappings of modern life that you think you care about go out the window and actually all you care about is like food, safety and having a bit of shelter. But what was really interesting was that, you know, I'd never been a particularly salesy type person but out of necessity would have to go into these places to try

Erika (41:02)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (41:11)
and negotiate and we take it in turns. But, you know, that taught me a skill that I didn't really know I had, like the ability to just approach perfect strangers and ask them questions about things. And actually, you know, that later served me on my career within J &J when I moved into medical device sales. But if I hadn't done the run, I wouldn't have learned that about myself, which then gave me a skill to take into life, which is really interesting. In terms of Boston to Austin, one of my favorite stories,

the

one that there's a couple that stick with me. My favorite story was we woke up in rural Tennessee one morning and there was a tornado warning on the radio and I'd never heard one of those things like this is a national service. I went to the accident, terrible. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what on earth do we do? So we hunkered down in a gas station, not sure if that's a good idea. Lots of flames and petrol, probably not good. I've seen Zoolander. Anyway, so we're there and

Erika (41:56)
Scary, right?

you

Scott J (42:11)
that we didn't get start running until later in the day. And that was always stressful because you'd finish later, it might be dark, you don't know where you're going, that kind of thing. typically, you know, one of us might be quicker than the others over the course of the day. That day, I was slightly quicker, which was unusual for me, to be fair. And we got down to where we were due to finish. I looked at my watch and I'm like, right, 26.2, done. I'm just going to sit here. I sat down on the curb outside this Baptist church and, you

Erika (42:19)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (42:41)
I'm in my running stuff, it's 2010, better like her on. Not really the attire that you would expect to see in rural Tennessee. And all of a sudden I've got this aroma of food being cooked in my...

Erika (42:48)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (42:54)
I smell so good, I'm like hungry and waiting for the guys to finish. And I turn around and there's these two gentlemen who are in the car park of the Baptist Church cooking some hot dogs on like one of those barrel barbecues. And I was like, I just looked at them and they looked at me and then a couple of minutes later they came over and they're hey man, what are you doing? And I was like, and... ⁓

Erika (43:07)
Yup.

Scott J (43:14)
You know, you'd learn it by that time. You're like, I'm running 2000 miles and like people's head would explode. They're like, what? You know, you're not from Tennessee. What's going said, you must be hungry. I said, yeah, I'm really hungry. I'm pretty ravenous by all accounts. He said, well, we're making some hot dogs. Do you fancy a hot dog? said, oh, I'd love one. Yeah. So next thing you know, we're over at the barbecue and then the boys finish running. They come over.

And then these guys are calling up their buddies and they're good old boys, right? From Tennessee. Next thing you know, the whole of like this rural community, we're in the car park, like come to talk to these nutters that are running across America. They're like, where are you guys staying? Like they fed us, watered us. I said, well, you know, we're gonna drive to the nearest town. They're like, no, it's 40 miles. It's an 80 mile round trip. Like.

Erika (44:04)
my gosh.

Scott J (44:04)
You can stay here in the church. I'm like, ⁓ are you sure? It's so cool. So we stepped into the church and we slept on the floor of the church and the next morning we woke up and the same congregation came back.

Eric (44:07)
That's so cool.

Scott J (44:18)
And they said, right, we've got to say some prayers for these boys from overseas running 2000 miles. And we're like, just so touching, so genuine and kind, real wholesome experience. And then we went on our way. They wished us luck, of course. And we got to the finish of the run and I went back home to Wales and my mom said, oh, it's Christmas time. There's a card there for you from Tennessee. And the church from Tennessee had taken the time to find us online and sent us a Christmas card saying,

completed the run well done. was just like that's amazing.

Erika (44:50)
That's incredible. So heartwarming.

Eric (44:51)
That's awesome. You

I'm friends, I consider to call myself friends with this guy on YouTube. name is Ryan Venduzer. And Ryan bikes across the country, does a lot of things with biking. He's not doing it for time, he's doing it to meet people and have those same experiences. And in many of his videos, he's staying in these local towns and people invite them to stay at their house or to camp in their yard.

Erika (45:09)
Yeah.

Scott J (45:17)
amazing.

Eric (45:17)
And the churches are one of them, like, you can camp in the yard here behind the church or the town, like the town has this center green or something. And it's, I've never seen it personally, but I hear these stories and they just seem like some of the coolest, best stories in the world because the people in that local town of Tennessee, like you talked about, like you can stay here in the church. And there's times that he slept in the church and you had one of those same experiences of this town that Ryan has had.

And I think that's so cool. I've yet to experience it and I would love to experience that one day.

Scott J (45:52)
Do know what, you've absolutely hit the nail on the head there, Eric. think, you know, the media reports so much negativity. I mean, they thrive off negativity in the press, right? But there's so many amazing experiences I've been fortunate to have that just restore your faith in humanity.

Erika (46:02)
Mm.

Scott J (46:10)
you know, it certainly makes you think again, that word perspective, the world in a different place, because we're kind of trained to like think, strangers, danger kind of thing. But actually, like most people are just like us, like, you know, they just want to have a chat and, you know, meet people from new places and exchange like we are now stories, right.

Eric (46:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erika (46:20)
Right.

Eric (46:29)
Yeah.

And you brought up a great point because that's something he kind of says a lot in his videos. In one place he goes to frequently and rides his bike is Mexico. And the media makes you just think Mexico bad. Like, unless you're at a Mexican resort, like an all exclusive or whatever, inclusive. ⁓ But he bikes in these very, very like poor areas of Mexico and the people are so nice and everywhere he goes, he has the best interactions. And I love that you had that. That's so cool. That wasn't even an ultra.

Scott J (46:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

Erika (46:43)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (46:59)
That was just an epic 2000 mile run from Boston to Austin. Yeah, I like jog. Un, So cool.

Scott J (46:59)
Yeah.

Just a light jog, it was no big deal.

Erika (47:05)
Not an ultra, Jesus. No, that is just a

prime example of not just the running community coming out, but community in general, just taking care of people in need. mean, you had to deal with not only physical challenges from just running that much every day, but the logistics. And I have to say, kids these days don't understand how difficult it is to navigate.

Eric (47:24)
Yeah.

Scott J (47:25)
Yeah.

⁓ my

Erika (47:30)
using paper directions. People will not realize how hard that was.

Eric (47:31)
haha

Scott J (47:35)
I was talking about

this with my wife a couple of weeks ago. like, we're so lucky to, cause obviously we're living in a new area. So we don't know where everything is yet. And we're still figuring out appearance. We're so lucky to have like Google maps and ways to like direct us. I remember the first time I came to the States in 2001, I had to buy from Walmart, like one of those big paper atlases, like 80 pages, which are interesting. I like looking at maps, but like not the most convenient when you're on a motorway and you've like, God, we've gone the wrong way.

Erika (47:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Eric (47:55)
in Atlas.

Erika (47:55)
you

Eric (47:59)
Yes.

Erika (48:02)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (48:04)
what do we do?

Eric (48:05)
Yeah. Yeah.

Well, there's the scene in the movie Castaway where Tom Hanks takes out the map and puts it on the hood of the truck and he's trying to figure out where to go next. It's just like, it's wow. It seems so foreign today. But you mentioned you and your wife are in a new area. Did you just recently move from the UK? How did you come across the pond from the UK over to the States?

Scott J (48:20)
Yeah.

Yeah, just something that we'd always wanted to do one day. the first time I came to the States was to work at a summer camp in upstate Pennsylvania. Again, teaching soccer when I was a lot younger without the coin strings. And I was kind of blown away by the kind of quality of the outdoors, which I really, really like. Obviously being an ultra runner, I spent a lot of time in the outdoors and I just thought it would be a wonderful place to live one day. But it's very...

Erika (48:42)
Hehehe

Scott J (48:59)
you know, sensible person, it's very difficult to achieve. And I think, you know, through Boston to Austin, I was lucky enough to learn the skills that enabled me to get a career in medical device sales. And then through similar kind of characteristics that I learned through running about putting the hard work in and ultimately trying to get some rewards, I was able to get through some good positions within J &J and yeah, ultimately,

was

offered the opportunity to relocate to New Jersey and achieve something that I wanted to do 20 years ago. So it's something that feels really special actually and even right now, one of our friends is staying with us at the moment. She's over from Scotland and...

she was commenting about the area and what a pretty area it is. I said, well, to be honest with you, I wake up every morning and I'm like, I can't believe we live here. It seems a bit surreal. So I'm still taking it all in, but really enjoying the adventure.

Erika (50:00)
Excellent. Well, welcome. We're happy to have you.

Scott J (50:02)
Thank you.

Eric (50:02)
Yeah,

and we might be a little biased, but you should come up to New Hampshire and you should see the mountains up here and yeah. Yeah, you should come up here. Check it out.

Erika (50:07)
We got some good mountains up this way.

Scott J (50:09)
⁓

I would like to. Is there a 100 miler up there called the Jigga Johnson or something? it?

Eric (50:17)
Yes.

Erika (50:17)
That's

it's very difficult.

Scott J (50:18)
I was looking at that, was

tempted, but actually now I've had that slight injury, I'm not going to do it. But I've heard good things about that race.

Erika (50:24)
Hmm. Next

year. Next year.

Eric (50:27)
Now, are you into ultras that are loops

or are you in like point to point ultra runner?

Scott J (50:34)
I would prefer a point to point course, but I'm not averse to doing a loop, is what I would say.

Eric (50:37)
Okay.

Well, if you're

looking for a little loop, that's just like a, a easy breezy jog. You know, I don't know if this is a hard ultra marathon, but one of Erica's favorites is called the hamster wheel. And it's in New Hampshire and she's there every year. It's a great commute. Yeah. It's, it's exactly. it's Eric, one of her favorite races. It's a great community. Some amazing people. Again, I might be a little biased. know a lot of them.

Scott J (50:54)
can see where this is going.

Erika (50:58)
The dumbest race in New Hampshire. That's their tagline.

Scott J (50:59)
just round

and round

Eric (51:10)
I won't be there this year, but Erica will. And that's a fun little race in, new Boston, new Hampshire.

Scott J (51:13)
I need to come check it out.

Erika (51:17)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (51:17)
When we

get done tonight, I'm going to Google it and I will look at the hamster wheel.

Erika (51:21)
Please do. This year I am just showing up. So last year was my third attempt at it and I wanted to hit the 100 miler because it had an awesome buckle with a hamster with these glowing red eyes and I'm like, I have to have it. This is my year. And so many people turned out to help get me through it and hit that hundred miles that this year I'm going to pay it forward.

Eric (51:21)
Nice.

Erika (51:44)
And I'm going to set up camp. I'm going to crew whoever needs some help. I'm going to pace whoever would like some help. So I will be there just in that capacity. So if you do decide you are going to come up, you let me know and I will help take care of you.

Scott J (51:52)
That's awesome.

Well,

thank you, I really appreciate that. And congratulations, by the way, on your recent ultras. You've done three in 30 days, I understand.

Erika (52:05)
Thank you. Yeah, Eric mentioned that and I was like, what? No, I didn't. I didn't do that. And then he mentioned, I was like, oh yes, I did. Oh no. Not my smartest move, but.

Scott J (52:11)
you

Eric (52:12)
Yeah. Three and 30 is a 72 hour,

then a 12 hour, and then a 24. know, yeah, pretty much.

Scott J (52:19)
That's very impressive.

Erika (52:20)
Oh, that was like 200,

how many? I gotta add this up. A lot, a lot, lot. We can edit this part out.

Scott J (52:23)
Yeah, how many miles?

Eric (52:27)
⁓

Scott J (52:27)
I like that you guys work in

miles by the way as well, not kilometers.

Erika (52:31)
Good, good.

Eric (52:32)
So Scott, one thing we love is we love a good story. And I did a little bit of research. Abby might've helped me out a little bit here, but I want to hear about the Arizona Monster 300 and something about crowdsourcing a beer while running.

Scott J (52:48)
⁓ no, that wasn't the Arizona monster, but you're right. may have crowdsourced a beer or two in my time.

Erika (52:54)
Crowds hosting a beer, I like

Eric (52:55)
Well, I'll

Erika (52:55)
that.

Eric (52:55)
hear about both. Tell me about the monster and then tell me about the beer.

Scott J (52:59)
Um, yeah, so I was very lucky to, uh, run the Arizona monster 300 in the inaugural year, uh, back in April this year, um, 300 miles guys.

Erika (53:09)
So you were there with Andy Glaze. I think Andy Glaze ran that. Yeah.

Eric (53:10)
Not a big deal.

Scott J (53:12)
I was there with Andy Glaze. Yeah, he's a good guy. We were chatting actually

at the beginning of the race and it's just such a long distance man. And Arizona, like you can tell I'm from the UK. I'm slightly sunburned from just walking outside today. you know, it's being in that heat is it's quite a challenge actually. I think that's something that people don't always think about. Like if you're going from Arizona to race in Scotland in the heart of the winter, it's a big difference to like, you know, go, go

Erika (53:21)
you

Scott J (53:42)
going to Arizona to race in Arizona in the heat, like you're just more acclimatized, easier to it. So I had to do a lot of acclimatization sessions in the sauna and then went down to Arizona. It was really cool experience actually, just to kind of spend so much time on the AZT. And yeah, it was a really good race. I ended up finishing ninth, so I was pretty chuffed with that. ⁓

Erika (53:48)
Mm-hmm.

Congratulations.

my gosh.

Scott J (54:07)
Well, thank you, thank you.

And look, we've all had good and bad races. I was just fortunate to have one of those days, plural days, I suppose, five days of like, everything just went to plan. Like, you know, I made a strong plan before we started the race with my coach, Jeff Brown, and...

I was just able to execute it. And to your point earlier, Eric, like having the right people and friends around you to be able to help you is a massive part of it. So, you know, that finish was as much as Abby's, Jake's and Tina's as it was for me. So it was nice to finally get something out of a race like that. So I was delighted. ⁓

Eric (54:40)
Yeah.

Erika (54:44)
you

Eric (54:45)
What was

that plan then? Like, did you plan on sleeping? Did you plan the sleeping out? Like, yeah.

Erika (54:48)
was my question. Fueling, fueling,

need to know.

Scott J (54:54)
Yeah, massive. I planned the sleep and that's a matter of trial and error as well. So I've been working with Jeff for like three years now and we've kind of, it's not like the finished article, but I think 90 % of the time I can get my sleep just about right. Depends on when you're trying to sleep as well. So I try not to sleep in the heat of the day because you're just more alert, you're more awake. It's much better to sleep when you're really, really tired.

⁓ Typically, I do a shorter sleep on the first night and then revert to like 40 minute naps on the subsequent nights. And then in terms of like food and logistics, I mean, I went through every section of the race. It took me three evenings, full evenings of prepping all of my calories, all of my scratch hydration, taking the salt tabs and decanting those into sachets, then adding the scratch. It took forever to do, but doing

that kind of level of preparation prior to the race meant that when I was coming into the aid stations, it was just all business and I could just get what I needed to get out my next bag and off I'd go. And that makes such a big difference because you can train as hard as you want, but if your logistics aren't right, the whole thing can fall apart. And actually, the more tired you get, the more problems you're likely to encounter. So if you can preempt any of those problems by dealing with them before you start, then it's going to set you up for a better

Erika (56:06)
Very nice.

Scott J (56:23)
race overall, guess. then like anything, right, you get a little bit of momentum and things start going the right way and you're like, okay, you know, let's just keep ticking over. again, like, I keep coming back to this word perspective, but like, I think when you run these races, just like in any form of life, the key is to kind of not get too carried away with the highs or too despondent with the lows and try to maintain some kind of level headedness perspective, even when it's the middle of

Erika (56:34)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (56:53)
night and you're running through the dark and you're scared but you just got to try and keep it on the level I guess.

Erika (57:00)
Yep, that's definitely not the easiest thing to do. Like those races just bring out all the highs and all the lows. And sometimes it's so hard to dig yourself out when you're in that like the dark low place. if you're doing whatever you can to, like you said, stay as level as you can. That is the key.

Scott J (57:02)
Yeah.

Definitely.

And with that in mind, so this seamlessly segues into the coca-donut beer sourcing ⁓ incident, we'll call it that. ⁓ So we're about 200 miles or so into coca-donut, which is another 250 mile race down in Arizona. This was in 2022 and ⁓ I rolled my ankle at about mile.

Erika (57:26)
Okay.

Scott J (57:39)
You can see it's on my Instagram and stuff, but it was a really bad one. And then I did it again, like five minutes later, coming down a descent from Mingus Mountain to Jerome. And I knew it was pretty bad, but I just thought I'll just deal with it. And over the course of time, it got slightly worse and slightly more swollen, surprise, surprise. But when you've paid all that money and traveled all that way, I'm like...

Erika (57:40)
Mmm.

Mm.

Scott J (58:04)
F that. I want my buckle. I've got a buckle which I spent 2000, probably $3,000 on. I'm not going home without it. So we got 200 miles in and came to the aid station. That's another great thing. These aid races have such wonderful volunteers and wonderful organization putting on great food and resource for you in the middle of nowhere. I came in, was the middle of the afternoon and I said, has anyone got a beer? They're like.

Erika (58:04)
You don't want to quit.

Scott J (58:33)
No, we've got like power aid. got, you know, tailwind, water, coke, beer, anyone? No, I'm like, okay, well, I'm just gonna go then. So I left that aid station and my first instinct was I just left with my ⁓ usual stuff like tailwind, kind of.

Erika (58:40)
Hehehehehe

Eric (58:50)
He left with nothing.

Erika (58:54)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (58:57)
Not moody, but a little bit like, oh, I just love a I know why it was, running through the pines and seeing these people out camping and you see the RVs and when you've got nothing else on your mind, you're thinking, I wonder what they've got in their fridge. I bet they've got cold beer. Kind of like a raccoon.

Erika (59:00)
Yeah.

That was me the other day. was

running by people and I could just smell grills and I was like, my God, food. just smelled so good. Yeah.

Scott J (59:19)
Yeah. Civilization is amazing.

So you're out there like a feral beast on the trail. And I'm like, right, I know what I'll do. I'll message Abby to my wife who's a long suffering wife, crewing me and pacing me all over the world. Bless her. I'll message her and ask her to get me a beer for the next aid station. I'm 200 miles in. I don't think that's too diva-ish.

Erika (59:35)
You

Scott J (59:44)
As I did so, I realized I had signal and then I realized that the YouTube stream would be on for the Coco Donut 250. So I was like, well.

rather than put my wife out, let's see what we can do. So I pulled up the YouTube and I basically, I went straight into the live chat. I'm like, guys, this is an emergency. Scott here, the British runner, been out here. So I was the first Welshman to do that race. And I was like, I really need a beer. I really need a beer. And they're like, oh my God, we've got a crowd source this guy a beer. And they're like, great, I'll be at Fort Tuthill in about,

Erika (59:59)
⁓ I love this.

It's an emergency.

Scott J (1:00:26)
three or four hours, depending if the beer's there or not. So then I actually picked up my pace, which was carrot and stick, right? So the carrot got me going, got in there and this wonderful lady who I actually met a couple of years later and she's like, it's you, you're the guy, the guy that I served the beer to at Fortale. I was like, yeah, that's me. So this wonderful lady came up to me with an ice cold beer. I think there's footage of me on the live stream somewhere on YouTube. Someone digs it out of me, I wander into the H.

Erika (1:00:29)
you

Yes!

Scott J (1:00:56)
station when it's bottled. It's generally there. I've watched it recently. was like, yeah, that was probably the best in race beer I've had. I still managed to get home in like 35th place. So I was pretty happy with that, with the state of my hand.

Eric (1:00:56)
I gotta find that footage.

Erika (1:01:04)
you

You talk

Eric (1:01:11)
Not a big deal. Unreal.

Erika (1:01:13)
about faith

in humanity. If the live stream people came through for you, that is literally like sent from heaven.

Eric (1:01:17)
Yeah!

Scott J (1:01:19)
It was amazing, right? I think that made the race,

be honest, that beer is just what you need. And actually I left this out. So you can have all the sports science tech in the world, right? You can have your Garmin's and your Coros and your...

Erika (1:01:25)
See, that's the game changer. It picks you right back up.

Scott J (1:01:36)
X, Y, Z and whatever, right? But I can tell you this. So every aid station at the Coca-Donut at the Arizona Monster, every aid station that I would get to my buddy Jake, he couldn't pace me unfortunately, because he injured his ankle. So he did the next best fit. He unbeknownst to my wife, every time I was approaching the aid station, he'd bring up the tracker.

Erika (1:01:47)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:02:01)
and he'd have a look and see if I'd done a decent section or not. And if I'd done a good section, I'd just see him like kind of walk about a hundred meters outside of the aid station with just this cold can of, of course. And he'd be like, good job. I'll have a sip of that. I'd have a sip of the beer, come into the aid station.

Erika (1:02:12)
Hehehehehe

Eric (1:02:19)
If you like, if you like

taste the mountains.

Scott J (1:02:23)
I could say it man and fresh. It was man and fresh. Exactly. I would literally have a sip of that and it would just put me in the best mood ever when I'd come into the aid station and they're like, you okay? I'm like, yeah, absolutely fine actually. Yeah, it's great. What are we gonna do next? So ⁓ yeah.

Eric (1:02:36)
There's nothing better sometimes than a cold

beer. It doesn't matter the situation. Yeah. Unreal.

Scott J (1:02:41)
when you've earned it like that.

Erika (1:02:44)
especially

during races like that though, a little bit of carbonation, but you get a little bit of carbs in there too. Like it's just the perfect little something.

Scott J (1:02:48)
Yeah.

Eric (1:02:49)
Right.

Scott J (1:02:52)
I mean, I'm

angling for a cause light sponsorship. I'm not going to lie to you at this point. One of the big, cause light Miller light, one of the two. Exactly. Exactly. But it works so well. Cause like when you, you're that.

Erika (1:02:57)
What you gonna do, Cores? Let's go!

Eric (1:02:58)
Coors Light, where you at?

The mountains are always blue in an ultramarathon.

Scott J (1:03:11)
kind of dehydrated and you're drinking scratch or you're drinking tailwind or any of these drinks for so long, like just having a sip of a cold one. It just takes the edge off. I know it worked for me. Yeah.

Erika (1:03:22)
so much sugar in those drinks. I know they're good for you with the

electrolytes, but just sometimes the sweetness is so overpowering and you just need a reset. And a beer is a great way to do it. If not, pickle juice. Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:03:32)
definitely. It takes the edge off. It takes the edge off and like, especially

when you're going into like, you know, maybe a 10 hour night section. I didn't have any paces until the very last section of the 300s. And that was only if I wanted to see what was going on around me. But like, you know, going into a night section in the mountains and you're going in hand solo, like just having a sip of beer can be quite a comforting thing. You're like, take the edge off, right? Let's go. Let's get this thing done. Little things in life. That's it.

Erika (1:03:44)
Mm-hmm.

the little things.

Eric (1:04:02)
You know, not to bring us down, but what are some of the, what are, no, I want to, I want to hear.

Erika (1:04:05)
So don't. I'm just kidding.

Scott J (1:04:07)
Are you going to suggest a

substandard beer to me, like Bud Light?

Eric (1:04:11)
So we know

the beer is amazing, but you've done so many ultras. You've done this Arizona monster, your coca-dona. You did the triple crown of two hundreds that we'll get into in a little bit. But what are some of like, maybe we'll call it learning lessons or as I like to call code Browns. Now code Brown isn't necessarily crapping yourself, but it's an oh crap moment. Like Erica, we were just talking about this before you came on. She would get in her first couple of 100s, it's like.

really bad foot rash. Like what do you call it Erica?

Erika (1:04:44)
It's heat rash. Like your feet just

get so irritated. Plus I didn't learn for my first, ⁓ hundred that you're supposed to have gators on for trail to keep dirt out of your shoes. So that was my big code Brown and it caused a lot of issues.

Eric (1:04:59)
Yeah, so what are some oh crap moments you've experienced in your ultra life here or in any kind of running experience?

Scott J (1:04:59)
I'll you soon.

Well, there's quite a few I would suggest. There's two that kind of really stand out. One more recent, one more old. So a True Co brand, if you like. Eric was back in 2014, 2015, oh no sorry, 2015, 2016. I'd read about Badwater when I finished Boston to Austin. I was like, I'd love to do Badwater one day. How am I gonna do it when I need to make a plan? So I made a plan and that involved going out and doing two.

consecutive solo crossings like 2015, 2016 to raise my experience of that landscape and being in that heat. yeah, so 2015, I was out on the stretch from, I was at Darwin towards Lone Pine and it's just kind of this barren stretch of sun scorched landscape. And I think maybe I'd overdone it on the gummy bears or something like that. ⁓

but I had to pull off the road to use the facility, so to speak, and there weren't any facilities in sight. So I scrambled over into a dried out, what I describe as a kind of thorough, like just a little hollow area. And I used the facilities and then.

Erika (1:06:20)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:06:24)
As you all know, I would suggest when you're squatting down after you've run over a hundred miles, it's quite painful to then get back up. ⁓ Unfortunately, as I kind of went to stand up, I toppled over backwards, which was not ideal, not ideal at all. ⁓

Erika (1:06:32)
Yeah.

Scott J (1:06:46)
not least because shit plus sand is really irritating so I had to dispose of some wet wipes it was really bad really bad but then yeah I don't think the crew were very happy about having that bag in the car in the desert heat

Erika (1:06:50)
God.

Eric (1:06:56)
no.

Scott J (1:07:07)
so long but that was a that was a true code brand you asked for it you've got it and then ⁓ codes read for eye watering i would say was last year i ran the north downs 100 which is 100 miler in the uk ⁓ run by centurion races really good run ⁓ it's actually a western states lottery qualifier

Erika (1:07:10)
Yes.

Scott J (1:07:28)
So you get your ticket from that, which is quite useful. Not that those tickets really mean anything in terms of prizes, just means you get on a long waiting list forever. And can you tell I really want to get into it?

Eric (1:07:40)
We know a few who've been through that experience.

Erika (1:07:42)
I wish

I could donate, I have one ticket and I wish I could donate it to you because I don't want to run.

Scott J (1:07:46)
Let's

talk offline. I'm sure we could figure out. I'm joking. I'm joking. I don't want to get banned. I just want to get in. That's it. ⁓ So we're running this race and ⁓ prior to the race, and this is probably oversharing for a live podcast, but when you've talked about shit plus sand, then you may as well just talk about this as well. So I did a bit of a coifering, a bit of hairdressing to the Never regions prior to the race.

Erika (1:07:49)
It's yours. It's all yours.

We'll make it happen somehow

You'd be surprised.

Eric (1:08:14)
⁓

Scott J (1:08:15)
But two prior, unfortunately. And then I doubled down on the pain by forgetting to use squirrels nut butter at the beginning of the race. Because I was driving myself to the start and I was thinking about, I've got to do this, I've got to do that. It was really early in morning. And then the race started and a couple of minutes in I was like, ooh.

Erika (1:08:27)
⁓ no.

Scott J (1:08:38)
I didn't put squirrels nut butter on. And then I got to the next stop and I used an inferior type of butter and it did not work. But I went out pretty well and I was like running in the top 10 for like the first 30 or 40 miles and they, yeah, we're doing all right. And then, then.

those sharp hairs plus soft skin in that particular region. Honestly, like one of the most excruciating things I've ever had to contend with in the back half of a race. It did not go well, but I'll never do that again, I promise you. So true confidants there.

Eric (1:08:57)
Yeah.

Erika (1:09:04)
own.

Eric (1:09:11)
my God, that is

some of the worst, the worst pain one could experience.

Scott J (1:09:15)
⁓ man, I've got,

Erika (1:09:17)
you

Scott J (1:09:18)
when we're in that bar in Boston, I'll show you some pictures. No, Erica, not for your eyes, not for your, Eric, you'll be all right. a look, ⁓

Eric (1:09:22)
Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Erika (1:09:28)
You guys can have this one. I'm fine with it.

Eric (1:09:32)
That's a classic.

Erika (1:09:33)
I have my imagination.

Eric (1:09:33)
that's a learning lesson. That's a learning lesson, like prepping a week before, even, even longer before you're like, okay, you got to time that out a little bit because yeah, that is rough.

Scott J (1:09:35)
It's a life lesson.

That's a pre-race logistic

you've got to handle appropriately Eric, for sure.

Erika (1:09:46)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:09:47)
Yeah,

unreal. I went on a quick two mile run today and I forgot to put the squirrels nut butter on and I was like, ⁓ it's just two miles. Nope. Bad. But anyways, it was just two miles. I got lucky. I wasn't running an ultra like you, but boy, Eric, I don't know if you've had that before, but.

Erika (1:09:49)
I would not have thought of that.

Ugh.

you

Probably not as bad as you guys. Although I got this really bad one under my armpit. I think you can see the scar. ⁓ I got that during my New Jersey one and it did not heal in time for my anger down the weekend after. So I finally bought Desitin, the baby rash ointment stuff and worked wonders. I just literally took a plastic bag and I was like, shloop.

Scott J (1:10:14)
yeah, I can.

Eric (1:10:24)
⁓

Scott J (1:10:24)
⁓ is it good?

Eric (1:10:27)
It's the best. Isn't it the

best?

Erika (1:10:31)
Like no

deodorant all weekend, just straight up Desitin under my armpits and it was wonderful.

Eric (1:10:35)
I'm, I'm on a work trip right

now and I brought Desitin with me. like, got it. You know, I have kids, so I learned Scott, but Scott. Yeah. I learned like this. I had a really bad shaving one day. This is my own thing that I figured out on my own. was training for an Ironman or something. I had a really long run and it went really, the run went great, but the aftermath went really bad and.

Erika (1:10:39)
Mm-hmm.

I don't have kids, so it took me forever. Baby rash ointment, yep.

Scott J (1:10:43)
I don't know what this stuff is, but it sounds good.

Eric (1:11:02)
We have Desitin for the kids when they're babies. And I was like, you know what? I need this to heal up really fast. And I threw it on, lathered it on at night. And it was worked like a miracle. It was a charm. And that is my go-to now. I, I will be on the road traveling and I know I have a run. I forgot it. I'll go to CVS. I'll get like the IV sticks, you know, the hydration sticks and I get like chafing cream, uh, not chafing cream, but a diaper rash cream. It is the absolute.

Scott J (1:11:25)
Yeah.

Erika (1:11:30)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:11:33)
brown commandment chafing cream cures no diaper rash cream cures chafing overnight. That's my commandment for the code brown. So

Scott J (1:11:43)
might do a series like ultra runner shopping baskets pre run. I think that's a good one actually. like it's the, I mean, it looks like a stoner's gone mad and just gone. I will have 12 cans of Red Bull, four bags of gummy bears, some Haribo, some crisps, some chafing cream, some baby rash stuff. Like it's just the most mental shopping basket ever. I'm going to do that.

Erika (1:11:49)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:11:54)
Yeah.

It would be great.

And then you follow it up after with the, the, after the post race shopping spree, know, 30 rack of Cora's light pizza sleep.

Erika (1:12:21)
Yeah.

Scott J (1:12:24)
Yeah, and in the middle you should do the cut where it shows you in the aid station. like, no, I don't want any of those gummy bears. No red bulb. No, I really want waffles. Has anyone got any waffles and a beer? ⁓

Erika (1:12:31)
Yep.

Eric (1:12:32)
Yeah

⁓

Erika (1:12:37)
That is, it's always so curious like what people crave during these ultras. Cause you can try to pack everything that you might want and just not touch any of it. Like that happened to me where I just packed so much shit that I was like, I don't want it. I don't want any of this. But like the aid station had a grilled cheese sandwich and it was the best thing I've eaten like in days. Like it's so good. You never know what you're going to want.

Eric (1:12:37)
You can make some great content.

Scott J (1:12:39)
I don't

Grilled cheese is good. Yeah, during a race grilled cheese is a good go-to

Eric (1:13:04)
Yeah.

Hey, you've done some pretty cool ultra marathons, but what is on the bucket list? We know Western states, but like what's coming up, not just what's coming up, but what's on your bucket list of things to achieve here? go.

Scott J (1:13:17)
That's a massive question.

mean, yeah, Western States for sure, hard rock. I'd love to do as well. I'd love to go back to Coca-Dona and run that race. I'd love to go back to Badwater, run that race again as well. I think I could do better at that race now that I've learned quite a bit over the last few years.

I know, there's so many good races out there that I'd love to do. Tour de Gionts, I wanna do. I wanna do the Wild Horse 200 in Wales as well, which is my brother's race that he puts on, so I'd love to go and do that one day. Yeah, which would be good. Yeah, there's so many, and that's the nice thing about moving to the States, is there's so many big races that are more accessible for me now to go and do. Even like, Canyon's 100K and like...

Erika (1:13:49)
Awesome.

Scott J (1:14:02)
I'd like to go and do that. I do prefer the 200 mile distance. I like the strategy and the execution, especially when you're really up against it. And I know that that can make a big difference in these longer races. I'd like to go and run the 300 again. I typically tend to do better when I've been on a course for the first time. So if I go out onto it the second time, I've...

Erika (1:14:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:14:27)
not a photographic memory, but a good memory for what's coming up in each section, if that makes sense. So,

Eric (1:14:33)
Yeah.

Erika (1:14:33)
Absolutely. That is game changing as well. Just knowing it's not a secret anymore. Like you're like, I remember this section.

Scott J (1:14:38)
It's not. Yeah, exactly

that. And like there was a 22 mile section.

on the last day of the Arizona monster and it was just a beast of a section, like no access to water in 22 miles in that heat, you know, it could be eight, 10 hours, anything really. ⁓ And I just remember thinking, you know, this is, this is why you get into it for these kinds of challenges, but knowing now what that section's like, it has to be an advantage than going over it, into it like we all did last year, completely fresh and not knowing what to expect. So.

Erika (1:15:14)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:15:15)
Yeah, just so many cool races. And then maybe even spying race in the UK, go back and do that one at some point too. So yeah.

I got enough to keep me busy, but when I do a race, has to excite me, if that makes sense. There's a lot of hundreds out there and I know people love to just go and clock up hundreds and that's totally awesome. Love that. But also for me to be motivated to put the work in, it's just me personally. I want to do something that's in a location that really excites me. And again, I want to go back and run the Moab 240 for the fourth time. I still think I could do a better job with that race. yeah, just finding the time and money.

energy to put into it all I guess you know

Eric (1:15:54)
Well, we just need that Core's light sponsorship to pay for it all.

Erika (1:15:55)
That's true.

Scott J (1:15:57)
Well, I'm just saying, didn't they sponsor Jean-Claude Van Damme for a few years? I mean, they could choke me a couple of beers, couldn't they? It wouldn't cost them much. Can you tag them in this, please, and maybe send them a video, because they'd be loving it, I'm sure.

Erika (1:16:04)
you

Eric (1:16:04)
Yeah.

Erika (1:16:10)
So I love that you are a very experienced ultra runner, but even as experienced as you are, you keep finding ways that you could improve your performances. Because I get that way too. like, I just didn't have a good day. I know I can do better. And you just want the event to come up next weekend. I just want another shot. So there's always room for improvement and growing and just trying to be a little bit better, if that's even making sense.

Scott J (1:16:33)
Definitely.

Yeah,

no, it totally does. I think, know, hands on, hands on heart, I we all learn the most from when we get things wrong. ⁓ mean, failure is the real true learning in life, in my opinion, and actually the true learning of failure is, can you have the...

Erika (1:16:40)
Yeah, it happens to all of us.

Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:16:55)
the courage to alter your course of action when you're later faced with similar circumstances. That's the true learning is can you apply it later on when you're faced with those similar circumstances. So for me, like, you know, I have learned so much and running when I've got so many things wrong and to what you were saying a minute ago, like you think, I buy all this food and then, you know, I might not want half of it when I'm halfway through the race. Now I've, I've got to a point where I'm like, if I buy this food, I know I'm going to eat it later. I've narrowed it down.

Erika (1:17:05)
Yes.

Scott J (1:17:25)
that much to exactly what I know I will eat repeatedly. So yeah, I guess that comes with time and failure, doesn't it?

Erika (1:17:26)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:17:32)
Right.

Erika (1:17:33)
Exactly.

Eric (1:17:34)
Well, you learned a lot in, in at the end of this recording, we're going to ask you these two big questions, but I change mine up every year. I want to bring it back just for you because Erica mentioned you're very experienced, but you're always learning. So I had this question last year and I was building a list called the code Brown commandments. And it was really just running advice. For instance, mine was the diaper rash cream, right? And someone would say something like, leave no trace.

Erica, give me some other ex yeah, that was Mike Siemens. Actually Mike Siemens had leave no trace. He was back on the podcast. Right.

Scott J (1:17:58)
⁓

Erika (1:17:58)
That was Mike Siemens.

big popular one, never trust a fart. Just

general rules for running, how to be more successful and suffer less.

Eric (1:18:13)
But even not code Brown related, like people would

give some great running advice for races, nothing new on race day. Like that's a simple one, right? But what's something you've learned? If somebody was getting into ultra marathons, what's some advice you would give them?

Scott J (1:18:29)
My number one piece of advice for any runner, doesn't matter if it's 5k to ultra marathons, is get your salt right.

If you get your salt right, you're probably gonna get your fueling right for 90 % of the time, I would say. So again, I used to get things wrong, I'd be throwing up or not able to keep drinks down. And I hear so many people say the same things. And now I look at it and I ran 300 miles and I was sick once. And that was because I took a warm gel in the middle of the day and got a load of it. It took too big of a gib of it and it would just

sat

on my throat, was like, I'm gonna cough that up. But like not being like projectile vomiting or not cramping or anything like that. And the reason I say that is because I've done the precision hydration test and I did it when I went to bad water in 2021.

Erika (1:19:08)
no. ⁓

Hmm.

Scott J (1:19:22)
I was undersalting so much. Like my salt tab was ad hoc, I suppose, know, make sure to take some salt caps. Like a lot of people do and I still see people doing it, but I was actually secreting per liter of sweat, 1371 milligrams of sodium. So, you know, if you're putting in two salt tabs, that's 500 mg's, you're not even at 50 % of what you've done. And the easiest way to figure that out is by...

Erika (1:19:46)
Not even close, wow.

Scott J (1:19:49)
getting your salt test done so you know 1,371, that's great. So then I know that if I've got a bottle of scratch there and a bottle of water there, I sip from the bottle of water, I sip from the scratch, which I've made sure has got additional salt through the tabs before I started the race, 1,371. So when I get through both of those bottles, I just do the same thing again and that's how I keep my salt balance right.

Erika (1:20:16)
So

smart

Scott J (1:20:17)
Well, it sounds smart when I talk about it, but it's only because Jeff Brown taught me it and he's a legend.

Eric (1:20:17)
Yeah.

Right. Well, you've mentioned

Jeff once or twice. I'm guessing he's your coach or something. Yeah. So.

Scott J (1:20:26)
Yeah, yeah, Jeff Browning

is coach Bronco Billy. He's got second most hundred mile wins of all time. Yeah, Bronco Billy, you know, there's no messing with a man like that. he's just, he is a badass. I've learned so much from him as well. So yeah, when you,

Eric (1:20:32)
What a name, Bronco Billy.

Erika (1:20:36)
Badass.

Eric (1:20:43)
So yeah,

you're always learning in that, I'm gonna call it now for that code brown command, I'm gonna add to the list, thou shall get their salt right. But that's such a cool learning process of doing that. And God, it would be cool if we one day could talk to a salt expert, but like that's great advice, get the salt right, understand what you need and how much. And then you have a much more enjoyable experience.

Erika (1:20:51)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:21:02)
Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, mean, I saw, so I've never, my thing was like, I'd never run a city marathon. And then the, and it's just because obviously spent so much time doing 75 in a row. I'm like, what have I got to prove? Just go and get a medal from a course that I might not want to really run around. Like I said, it's got to excite me. So I was living in London for 12 years and,

Erika (1:21:25)
Yes.

Scott J (1:21:29)
I, my boss's boss at the time said to me, one of my mates has pulled out the marathon. Do you want to run it? I was like, yeah, sure. Why not? There's two weeks after I'd just finished the UTMB a hundred mile Istria race in Croatia. So I was like, yeah, fine. We'll do it. So I stepped up to the plate. went to collect my t-shirt pre-race and they're like, I can't remember.

names like Dave Jones or someone they're like Dave you've got an XL t-shirt is that the right size and I'm like yeah yeah I've lost a load of weight while I've been training for the marathon he's like well done man have the t-shirt so I'm like okay awesome I did I did the marathon and I run a respectable like 328 which is the only sitting marathon I've done so I'm perfect I'm happy London live there great but I distinctly remember like getting to mile 20

Erika (1:22:15)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:22:21)
and the amount of people that were just like pulling up or cramping and couldn't walk and like I'm not saying I know it all but I knew straight away like that's got to be salt it has to be that you've not got it right and I think you know the salt tip it could help if it helps save someone's race in the future then that's a really good thing so get that test done it makes such a big difference for sure

Eric (1:22:45)
We got to do that, Erica. We got to get a salt test. We'll document it, put it on the vlog or something. That would be cool. Yeah, that's great advice.

Erika (1:22:47)
I would love to.

Scott J (1:22:50)
Yeah, you should. It's really easy as well. It's like

they shove you in an oven for four hours. It's it's literally... They're like, is he done? Put a fork in, Eric. Is he done yet? No, he's still not enough salt. Let's get some more salt. A little salt bait comes in like this. ⁓ No, it's more like they just put a thing on you and you just perspire in it. know, science fiction, but it's It's accurate.

Eric (1:22:57)
I'm down. I'm down.

Erika (1:22:57)
It's really easy,

you just hit an oven for

Eric (1:23:02)
Yeah

Erika (1:23:04)
Okay.

Eric (1:23:05)
I'm down.

Yeah.

Erika (1:23:18)
love it.

Eric (1:23:20)
Now you mentioned your favorite distance is 200, which Erica has not even scraped the surface on that yet, but you ran in some... Yeah.

Erika (1:23:27)
Mm-mm. 150 is my next milestone.

Scott J (1:23:27)
It's so much fun.

Well

that's a heck of a distance too and good luck mate, you're gonna smash it, I'm sure.

Erika (1:23:35)
Thank you. Someday. ⁓

Eric (1:23:35)
So, but you read

in something called the Crown or the something at 200s. I have it written down. I'm doing a terrible job with my notes because I'm on a work trip. The

But tell me about the triple

crown of 200s here.

Scott J (1:23:51)
Well, thank you for asking so and make you doing a fine job, but I appreciate you. So yeah, it was the triple grant You know, it's good and less

Eric (1:23:57)
I'm trying, I'm trying. I typically have three screens

right now I have one. But I think you're the first, the first Brit to complete this.

Scott J (1:24:05)
So is the two.

I was, yeah, I was very lucky. And I say lucky because you can pull the training in, but in a distance that way, like, A, to just have the opportunity to go and do it is lucky and fortunate to be in that position to get to go out and run so far, but also just to have nothing go wrong. Touch wood was, you know.

Very lucky and lots of things could have gone wrong, but the Triple Crown of 200s is consists of three races So it's the Tahoe 200 over in Lake Tahoe the Bigfoot 200 Which is a beast of a race just on this weekend. I sure think people are still be finishing that race right now She did yeah, yeah, she did and then The Moab 240 over in Utah as well. So you have to do all three in a calendar year

Erika (1:24:46)
I think Ashley Paulson just did that one.

Scott J (1:24:57)
The year that we did it the Tahoe race got postponed from June to July because of forest fires. So we ended up running two 200 mile races in the space of like I think it was about 15 or 16 days, which was It was pretty brutal Very very difficult along the way Lots of wildlife encounters. So I was being paced on the section

Erika (1:25:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:25:24)
in Tahoe and eight eight mile out and back eight miles each way by a guy called Lee Adams friend of mine and we're coming up the trail and he's like Scott stop and I'm like why and he's like look then like literally 50 meters up the trail there's two bear cubs in the middle of the trail he's like don't move and I'm like mate what do we do he's like just don't move and then just hear this enormous noise and I'm like oh there's mama he's like

Erika (1:25:45)
You

⁓

You don't want to mess with the cubs. ⁓ I don't know what to do around bears, you do not mess with the cubs.

Scott J (1:25:53)
Don't, don't do it, don't do it. my God,

it's terrifying. And it probably lasted 10 seconds, but now when I look back at it, I'm like, that was one of the coolest experience I've ever had. And the mama bear just made a growl, the cubs ran across to the mama and they took off. like if Leanne being with me, could have quite, cause I was tired like third day of running, I could have just kept going. wasn't paying attention. Moab, ⁓ I was coming up the trail again.

Erika (1:26:14)
Yeah.

Eric (1:26:15)
Yeah.

That's a code

brown, by the way. That's my example I use all the time. A code brown is like running into a bear on the course and you legit did that. You're the second person on this podcast ever to tell us a story like that. That's awesome.

Erika (1:26:23)
Total code brown.

you

Scott J (1:26:35)
Well, ⁓

My legit code brand for the Triple Crown series was actually overdone by the mountain lions in Utah. we were coming up the trail on the last day of the Moa, well, running into the morning of the last day. And I was with my pacer Devon on this occasion and we were up in the La Salle's about 12,000 feet. And we were on this very remote trail heading up towards what's now Giza Pass, they call it. And

It was just maybe like five or six in the morning, just sun starting to come up and I caught something off to my left hand side with my head torch and I like, some deer. I was like, Devin, are those deer? And he's like, no. And I'm like, what are they? And he's like, they're mountain lion. I was like, no, no way. And we looked and there's a video again on my Instagram and you can see like it was two mountain lions.

literally look at us in the trees. That scares me way more than a bear. 100 % like I think a black bear is not too much. You just want to make the noise but mountain lions and grizzlies are at a different level.

Erika (1:27:35)
Those are scarier than bears. they're just, yeah, yeah.

Eric (1:27:36)
Yeah, it actually is.

Erika (1:27:45)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:27:47)
Well, even here in New Hampshire,

the bear is the common one I always use, but in New Hampshire, they always say, be more scared of a moose than a bear. Yeah. Cause a moose will charge at you.

Scott J (1:27:55)
⁓ yeah, yeah. You have to zigzag.

Yeah, apparently a moose can't change directions very quickly. you have to... You know, the real irony of it all though is that, you know, I ran this series of three, three, three hundred, three ⁓ hundred forty five mile races in the UK. They're called the Canal Slam ⁓ series and... ⁓

Erika (1:27:59)
Mmm.

Eric (1:28:04)
No, so you go to the trees.

Scott J (1:28:21)
you're probably at much more risk running through parts of London on a bank holiday weekend when it's kicking out time than you ever are in the wilderness of the US, to be fair. So yeah, the chances are it's been a little bit irrational with my fear, but nonetheless, real code browns.

Erika (1:28:39)
Mm.

Eric (1:28:40)
Yeah,

absolutely. So this real quick though, this triple crown of two hundreds, you're the first Brit to ever do it or complete it, but you also finished fifth. Is that like fifth overall? Is it a series and you're racing against everyone in every race? How, how did that all line up for fifth place? Which by the way, in the Ironman world, that's a podium finish. I'm just going to call it a podium finish for you too.

Erika (1:29:04)
You

Scott J (1:29:04)
I appreciate

that. means a lot. Thanks Eric. I'd love to get onto the top three spots one day and that's a dream, but we'll see. But thank you. Yeah, I finished fifth overall and I was pretty delighted with that to be fair. It's, they basically take your cumulative total across the three races and that's how you determine the winner. And like we were saying a minute ago, there's so many things that can go wrong. So many like fine margins for error.

So A to just finish it, but then B to finish it in that position I was delighted with. But I keep forgetting about it to be honest with you. Just onto the next, right? As a runner, you just kind of think, well, what should I do next? It only takes like a couple of weeks. You're like, what should I do? But thank you.

Erika (1:29:47)
Yup.

Eric (1:29:49)
But not only that,

like all these awesome races you do, you also do them for charity, right?

Scott J (1:29:56)
Yes, yeah, absolutely. So I support a charity called Operation Smile. I think, you know, when I think about where I started my running journey and raising money for the British Heart Foundation, the thing that it taught me was actually, you know, this is a great way to have an adventure in life. So I'll fund that adventure, but then try to raise money for the charity whilst I'm doing that myself.

And yeah, I was very lucky to run across Death Valley, well, done bad water.

but I did run it twice independently, like I say, and off the back of that, the one year I was running, I was raising money for Operation Smile. And yeah, they very kindly invited me to go on a program visit to a small town in Northern Ethiopia called Mekale. And for those that you don't know, Operation Smile is a charity which performs surgical intervention for children with cleft lips and cleft palates. And I just think that a smile is a true university

Erika (1:30:54)
Mmm.

Scott J (1:30:57)
language

of the world. When we came on this show this evening, the first thing you do is smile, right? It creates that warmth. to not be able to do that, to be ostracized from society, I think is a very sad thing. here in the West, we can fix that really quickly. It doesn't cost much to fix it. And I just, I don't count what I do in dollars in terms of fundraise. I count it in smiles. So I'm like, I'm at 145 smiles now and I'm like, I've to get to 150 and you know.

Erika (1:31:03)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:31:14)
Yeah.

Yes!

Scott J (1:31:27)
Yeah, that's well, thank you. That's really kind of to say, because I come back what I saying earlier as well. Like when you get older in life, you know, what will be the things that you'll remember? And for me, I just think it will be the times where I went out, had an adventure, did some good at the same time. And if I can accomplish that, I think I could look back and be like, that was a full lot. You you did everything you possibly could.

Erika (1:31:27)
I love that.

Yeah.

Scott J (1:31:52)
Yeah, you've just got to seize the day, right? I've very sadly lost a couple of friends over the last few years, one very recently, and it just makes you feel very, very sad, but also very grateful to have the opportunity to still be here to go out and have these adventures. And I'll be damned if I'm not going to go and make the most of it, not just for myself, but for those that never got the opportunity to do those kinds of things. So that's what my head's up.

Eric (1:32:17)
Right.

Erika (1:32:18)
⁓ Well, we are so sorry to hear about your loss, but you are doing some amazing good in this world, Scott, and we need more of this in this time. it's necessary and you are doing the right thing.

Scott J (1:32:25)
Thanks Erica, that really means a lot. you.

Thank

That means a lot, thank you. I just think one day I'll sit there on the sofa and I won't remember what I've seen on Netflix, but I remember the time that I had that unfortunate issue with the sand in Death Valley. Not least because I've probably still got the chafe in.

Eric (1:32:32)
Tell I interrupted you.

Erika (1:32:49)
⁓ the memories.

Eric (1:32:50)
Well man,

hey talk about Abby for a minute because you do some really cool stuff here. You do some awesome ultra marathons, you travel the world, now you came across the pond, you brought her with you. Talk a little bit about Abby, she's part of your crew obviously, but she's on board for all this too.

Scott J (1:33:08)
Yeah, exactly. think she's got a life insurance bounty out on my head. It's long suffering life. But no, Abby, like, you know, was the one that got me into pushing myself to want to do more with my life. ⁓

Erika (1:33:13)
you

Scott J (1:33:23)
You know, she was ultimately the one that kind of said, you should have the confidence to go for J &J. And, you know, I was lucky to get that opportunity. And it was Abby that got the role in the States first and brought us over. But all of the adventures that I've had, I've been lucky to have such an amazing supporting wife by my side, pushing me to always do more. Every aid station I come through, right? What are you doing? Don't mess around. Let's go.

And it's not just the running side of it. It's like, you know, come on, we've got to make sure we're doing more for Operation Smile and more to try and help others, right? We're the lucky ones that we get to go and have these adventures and be fit and hopefully well enough to go out and have these kind of races in the middle of nowhere. So I don't take that for granted. to share it with ⁓ your wife or your significant other is a special thing to do, isn't it? It really is.

Erika (1:34:20)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:34:20)
And

she's been unfortunate at times in pacing me as well. So there's a very famous incident or infamous in my opinion.

Back in Moab in 2019, I ran the race for the first time and I didn't know anything about running 200 miles. So I was just like, well, I'll figure it out. You know, if I've run far before, it'd be fine. Didn't know anything about sleep deprivation. I got 200 miles into the race at Giza Pass and my crew, Abby was there and they're like, you okay? I was like, yeah, great. You know, I'm pretty cold though. They're like, it's minus four. They said, how was your night? I said, yeah, it was interesting. I met two cowboys out on the trail. She said,

you do realize minus four, you're up at like 12,000 feet, there's definitely no cowboys out there. I was like, right, okay, well, let's just keep going. She's like, you're doing really well, you're in like 15th place, let's keep pushing. I'll see you in the next aid station, 20 miles, and my buddy Rid came and paced me for that next 20 miles and...

Erika (1:35:07)
you

Scott J (1:35:24)
He later told me that he could tell the wheels were falling off, but he didn't really know to what extent. And none of us did because we've never been to that distance before. So we're coming down the trail and we get into the last aid station and I was feeling pretty tired, pretty exhausted.

⁓ I got in there and I didn't really know where it was. And we decided that, you know, we'd just push for the finish. So they took all my kit and just made it as light as possible and off we went. I was still holding onto 15th place. And then things took a little bit more of ⁓ a right turn ⁓ as I started to kind of stagger around the course and in and out of bushes. ⁓

Erika (1:35:58)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:36:05)
lying on the floor, refusing to move, then getting up and weeing in the bush and all that stuff and procrastinating and more and more people were starting to go past me. And then things took an even more sinister turn. You know, it started getting chased by a witch.

Erika (1:36:11)
you

Scott J (1:36:21)
So I was absolutely convinced that I was being chased by a witch down this remote trail, porcupine rim in Moab, Utah. And I was terrified. I fell over a few times. I got up and I ran and I did the only thing I could do was to hide under a rock.

So I hid under the rock and I could hear the witch's voice calling my name, Scott, Scott, come out, where are you, where are you? All this time, I'm going from 15th, like right back downfield and...

Erika (1:36:45)
you

Scott J (1:36:52)
you know, eventually the witch stuck her head under the rock like that to get me out. And I did the only thing you could do in that situation, is the crucifix, which is internationally renowned to ward off vampires and indeed to witches too. It's in the literature somewhere, I'm sure. So anyway, the witch says, come out, come out. And I said, away witch, away. The witch, the witch responded, I'm not a witch. It's me, Abby, your fucking wife.

Erika (1:36:56)
You

Yeah.

Scott J (1:37:24)
So, the, Erica, the moral of the story is do not call your witch, ⁓ your witch, wife ⁓ or wife, your witch, a wife, your witch, way you cut it, it's not a good outcome. it's not. So.

Erika (1:37:25)
That is some of the best hallucination stuff I've ever heard. Incredible.

Nope, complete opposite

of happy wife, happy life. No, do not do that.

Scott J (1:37:46)
Exactly. It wasn't a happy scenario. mean, she was fearing

for her life, she told me afterwards, because I wouldn't come out and it was tremendously cold, minus four, minus five. So eventually they got me out of the under the rock. Another runner called Jason Wooden was coming down the trail on that last section, his pacer, 2019. I don't know how they were allowed to have a dog with them, but the pacer had the dog with them. And the pacer and the dog... ⁓

Erika (1:37:55)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:38:11)
between them managed to get me out by going, there's not the dog obviously, but the pace went, there's a cookie. I've got a cookie. Do want to come out from under the rock? And then the dog like licking my face. And I'm like, okay, I'll come out. And I finished the race. So I went from 15th to 35th and like the last 16 miles of a 200 mile race. we're talking about like learning from failure and applying those learnings. So in 2021, I got the opportunity to go back and race that race again.

Erika (1:38:18)
You

Scott J (1:38:39)
It was a really cool experience. got 200 miles into the race and again, I was like doing all right. And this time I knew, I knew that I had to sleep and the force myself to sleep. Abby helped me with that. And we got out from the aid station as I'm getting ready to go. Who turns up? Not the witch, Jason. Jason turns up, didn't tell me he was coming to pace me for the last 40 miles. And we ran the last 40 miles and could have been fresher and finished.

Erika (1:38:50)
Yup.

Scott J (1:39:09)
15th place which is where I should have finished two years ago when he rescued me from under the rock so it was a very nice moment and a very nice story or it all ended well eventually just two years later after it started basically

Erika (1:39:24)
So the moral of that story is sleep deprivation is no joke. Take a nap.

Scott J (1:39:28)
No joke. It

Eric (1:39:28)
Hehehehe

Scott J (1:39:29)
could end a marriage, potentially.

Eric (1:39:34)
Well, I'm glad in your case it hasn't because she is one of your number one supporters. She reached out to us about a month or so ago and said, you should talk to Scott. He's amazing. She gave me some insider tips there. Let me tell you something, Scott. So Erica didn't know I was talking to Abby. I do all the behind the scenes work, the emails and everything, the invites that it was very late on sending you. We take a break. Yeah, we take a break every July.

Erika (1:39:37)
Exactly.

Hey.

Scott J (1:39:57)
I appreciate you for

having me on.

Eric (1:40:02)
And we kind of took a longer one because we haven't really recorded since the middle of June. And this is our first Monday night back since our break. And we doubled up and I said, Erica, we're doubling up this Monday. We're having two people on and she's like, okay. She's like, I'll plan my Monday around. I have to get my mile in and I go, you're really going to like this guy because he's an ultra runner.

Erika (1:40:19)
I was like, I'm ready, I'm ready. I got this.

Scott J (1:40:21)
Yeah.

Eric (1:40:28)
And he's a badass ultra runner. And I am listening to your stories, watching her on the screen just light up and she's loving every moment of it.

Erika (1:40:36)
My face is like,

Scott J (1:40:37)
⁓ well thank you

Erika (1:40:40)
I just love everything the ultra community has to offer just because everybody has stories and they're all, I mean, some are fun, some can be sad, some can be all over the place, but just hearing anybody's experience with them just validates me a little bit.

Eric (1:40:56)
Yeah. And you, you

absolutely delivered. I've never done an ultra. I've never done anything more than a marathon. I've done an Ironman too, but yeah, there's this time, there's plenty of time, but you absolutely delivered. Like these stories were great. However, you're not done. We have two final questions and I'm going to let Erica go first.

Erika (1:41:05)
I'm working on him.

Hamster wheel. ⁓

Scott J (1:41:21)
Do know what I liked about that was you positioned it a little bit like an ultra that sounded very much like Abby. You're not done. You still got two sections to go and I'm like, ⁓ really? Like I thought I was done. I'm joking.

Erika (1:41:21)
you're so kind.

Mm-hmm.

Hopefully this is better or little easier than an ultra at least. But Scott, we have ourselves a Spotify playlist and we've been compiling a list of all of our guests' choices. Is there any song that you would like to add to our list? Something that gets you fired up? Just one song. Eric says one. Eric says one. So is there anything you'd like to add?

Eric (1:41:35)
You're like, really, which? ⁓ I didn't mean that. ⁓

Scott J (1:41:37)
Hahaha!

Eric (1:41:53)
Just one song.

Scott J (1:41:56)
There

are a lot of songs that get me fired up and it depends what you're doing as an activity. I'm sure your guests before me have alluded to that as well. You could be out in the middle of the night running through the forest and you've got some Calvin Harris blasting and you're super motivated or maybe you're throwing weights around in the gym and you've got the Metallica on. I've got an eclectic taste in music.

But I will give you a British artist who isn't that well known in the US yet. However, I'm going to give him some high praise, not because I know him or anything affiliated, because he's actually really good. But he's like a young Bruce Springsteen, actually. Like he talks in his songs about his upbringing in the industrial northeast of England. And he does this great song and it's called People Watching by the artist Sam Fender. Fender liked the guitar. ⁓

Erika (1:42:28)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:42:50)
promise

you, if you listen to that one song, you'll listen to it and you'll be like, oh my God, this guy is really, really good. And I reckon in 10 years time, if you have me or somebody on the show, everyone will know who is. He's touring the US. I'm going to see him in Philly on the 21st of September. And he in the UK sells out like 80,000 seats of stadiums in the US. He's not well known yet, but I promise you, listen to him on the way into work tomorrow. You'll love it. You'll love it.

Erika (1:42:51)
Okay.

Eric (1:43:13)
No way.

Erika (1:43:15)
Well, hopefully this helps.

Eric (1:43:19)
Yeah,

yeah, he's going to get the on the runs bump.

Erika (1:43:20)
I'm excited to check it out. I hope

Scott J (1:43:22)
Yeah, yeah, he's really good. No

question, by the way, I love that.

Erika (1:43:24)
so.

Eric (1:43:26)
I saw something the other day. So Ozzy Osbourne just passed away in July and he's from the UK and they had this huge concert, this huge like reunion just a few weeks before he died. But it wasn't just one day, it was a lead up where they all took these photos and they all had these cool moments like Metallica was there. One of my songs is Whiskey in a Jar by Metallica. That's the one for the gym when I was doing these badass CrossFit workouts. So.

Scott J (1:43:47)
song.

Yeah, Love that.

Eric (1:43:53)
Ozzy told this one young up and coming artist who's in the UK, who's doing really well in the UK. goes, you go conquer America. When you go conquer America, you'll conquer the world. And so this young Bruce Springsteen like guy you mentioned, he's coming over here to conquer America and we're all going to hear him soon. Erica, send me the song when we're done with this, but it's my turn. I have one question just like hers.

Erika (1:44:11)
you

You got it.

Eric (1:44:22)
However, I change mine up every year. And last year was the code Brown commandments. I asked you that earlier, but this year, my question is this on the runs is going to have this huge, massive, really fun pasta dinner at the end of the year. And all our guests from 2025 are welcome and they all get to bring a plus one, not including family. Abby is welcome to come, but you can bring anyone in the world alive or dead. Who is your plus one? You're going to take to our on the runs pasta dinner.

Scott J (1:44:52)
wow. So, again, this is going to be a bit obscure for an American audience, but hopefully ⁓ people from rugby-playing nations will know. So, Wales, unfortunately, is my home country, is not going through a good run of form when it comes to international rugby at the moment. But we're a very proud nation and very proud to be from Wales.

⁓ We had a great Welsh rugby captain called Alan Wyn Jones and he's the most capped, which means the most appearance rugby international player of all time. ⁓

Somebody once asked him, said, Alan, when you know, you're the most capped international rugby player of all time, 170 performances for his country. And you think about like a game like hockey or like NFL to play in a physically demanding game like that for so long without your body breaking is incredible. And when I ran the Arizona monster, it wasn't long after I read his autobiography and let's get to my point. I Scott, come on. You want to move on? And the point was that somebody asked him, they said, Alan,

170 performances, how on earth did you stay at the top of your game for so long? And he just raised this filled brow as he used to do when he was playing rugby and he just turned to him and said, well, I've just stayed hungry for the work. And when I ran the Arizona monster, I just kept thinking about that. Just got to stay hungry for the work. If you do that, you get quite far in life, I suppose. And there you go.

Erika (1:46:22)
What a motto. Beautiful.

I love that.

Eric (1:46:25)
Yeah, that

was great.

Scott J (1:46:27)
It's good quote. It's been awesome.

Eric (1:46:28)
This whole thing was great. What a night. it just, I want to tell you, I'm a dad. I love dad jokes and everything, but I heard something great the other day and I've used it on a few people and you run for the, the, the smile, the smile charity. You, yeah. And I learned this cool joke. I want to end you on this. It's not a joke. Sorry, but it's, ⁓ did you know you can't feel your tongue when you smile?

Erika (1:46:42)
Operation Smile.

Eric (1:46:54)
And I like to say that to someone when they're not smiling because then I did it to Lindsay the other day, Erica, because then they're like, wait a second, what? And they smile. They're like, ⁓ you're right. And then it's like, ⁓ look, look at that smile. Look at that smile. And I love that. So this was fun. I'm so happy Abby reached out to us, Scott. This is great. I have been watching Erica smile the whole time talking ultra marathons.

Erika (1:46:59)
You did.

You have to like think about it for a sec.

Scott J (1:47:06)
You

Well, that's it.

me too. Really.

Erika (1:47:18)
truly was a pleasure. had

such a good time talking with you tonight. This was truly a lot of fun.

Scott J (1:47:22)
Me too, it's been amazing and

Eric (1:47:24)
We

went beyond her hard cutoff and she didn't complain or care because she's like just loving this on a Monday night.

Erika (1:47:28)
Worth it. Worth it.

Scott J (1:47:29)
Staying up late on a Monday night. Staying up late on a Monday night. It's a slippery

slope. well thank you Eric. I appreciate that. I really enjoyed it.

Erika (1:47:35)
You're worth it, Scott.

Eric (1:47:35)
Yeah.

This was great. If you're ever in the Northeast

or about 50 minutes North of Boston, we're just over the border in New Hampshire. If you're going to do a jigger Johnson, or if you're going to do the hamster wheel, check that out. Like let Erica know she'll be there. I know you're not into loops and probably not even time races. You're just the 200 mile or guy, but there's an awesome ultra in Rhode Island called anchor down and

Scott J (1:47:42)
Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Erika (1:47:50)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:48:02)
Okay, I'll have a look then.

Erika (1:48:02)
You would

100 % qualify. Yes.

Eric (1:48:05)
Yeah, it's a loop

course and it's six, 12 or 24 hours, but like we just, we know what I'm doing. I'm pumping the tires for the ultra community that I know and am a part of in a way. And those are the ones I've gone and crude at. They're great. But I know the ones you go to are amazing. You're, you're pod fam now, just like Mike Seaman, Ashley Paulson, Andy glaze, all those guys are pod fam. Suzy Chan, like, you know, these people that we know and it's so cool.

Erika (1:48:17)
Mm-hmm.

Scott J (1:48:25)
Thank you.

Erika (1:48:27)
Suzy-chan, yeah.

Scott J (1:48:28)
Yeah

Really

nice.

Eric (1:48:34)
I should have put one and two together. should have, because I occasionally text Mike or we DM each other back and forth. I should have been like, Scott is coming on the podcast. Give me the dirt. I forgot to do it.

Scott J (1:48:40)
Always slides in first year.

He knows it all,

Erika (1:48:45)
Next time.

Scott J (1:48:46)
he knows it all.

Eric (1:48:48)
next time.

Well, hey, maybe one day we'll be podcasting from one of his shows and maybe you'll be there and he'll be there and we can get you both on together and you can just talk about those stories.

Scott J (1:48:56)
We should do that. That'd be fun. I'd love

to come up to the run show and I'll do it only on the only if we can go across the road to the bar afterwards and have a drink job done. Perfect. All right. Thank you so much guys.

Eric (1:49:06)
Yes, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. This was great. This was awesome. Abby, if you're listening, thank you for setting this

Erika (1:49:06)
100%. Deal. Deal.

Thank you.

Eric (1:49:14)
up. And Scott,

you were amazing. You absolutely delivered.

Scott J (1:49:17)
No, I don't know about that,

but that's very kind. It's been a real pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for having me on guys.

Eric (1:49:23)
Awesome guys. hope you enjoyed that because that was wicked. Awesome. Scott Jenkins on the on the runs podcast.

Erika (1:49:23)
The pleasure is ours.

Erika (1:49:35)
Got, thank you so, much for A, being super patient. We talked to you back in August, so it's been a really long time coming to get this episode out there, but thank you for being so patient and so entertaining with your stories. It was just so incredible to get to talk to you. And I mean, I would love to have you back just to hear, or maybe on the re-crap, let's get him on the re-crap and talk about some of the other epic races that he's been up to.

Eric (1:50:00)
Yeah, Tara Taradactyl Lindsay, work on that. He's on some epic trip right now, because I jumped in his DMs over the weekend. He's like on his fourth flight going somewhere around the world. So wherever you are, Scott, right now, like I hope you're just having fun kicking ass. moved back to the, well, didn't move back. He moved to the States and he loves it here, but he's from the UK, as you said. So he did, ⁓ I think we talked about it too, but he goes to the National Run show.

Erika (1:50:06)
Okay.

See? Cool shit.

Mm-hmm.

Eric (1:50:29)
just like the Boston Run show, but the national one in London for Racoon (Media) and he's done speaking appearances a couple times now.

Erika (1:50:32)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yeah, and I'm jealous. I would love to experience that show. That just seems like so much fun. I mean, you're probably guaranteed to see like a Suzy Chan sighting too, right? She usually goes to that.

Eric (1:50:46)
Right, and I hope he makes it for

the Boston Run show. As he said, we're gonna go to some of those bars, the Green Dragon. There was the one he mentioned that he loved too. So we'll have to do both. We'll to do his bar and my bar. But.

Erika (1:50:50)
would be so cool.

Yes. There we go.

And I just hope that if he does come to the Boston one, that he can sit down with us and we can have like a little chat at the, uh, did we announce this yet? I shut up? Okay.

Eric (1:51:07)
What are you doing? Stop, stop it, stop.

Carolina (1:51:09)
you

Eric (1:51:13)
Coming soon. I'll tell you what though, when he does meet us in Boston, I'm not gonna run to Austin with him. I'm just gonna go to the bars with him. yeah. Yeah, you could be convinced to a lot, just not social content media. But that's why.

Erika (1:51:20)
Yeah, that's a, well, I could probably be convinced to do that. Who knows.

some of the conversations

we had today. There are things that we could be convinced to do and it involves feet. So we'll just leave it at that.

Eric (1:51:38)
Yes!

So tell me, okay, you surprised me with Carolina. She's still here. She's part of this whole episode now. There's a lot of fun because Erika's never done anything like this. Almost went 200 episodes without. So this is pretty cool. Good thinking, creativity there. I like it.

Erika (1:51:41)
Yay! She sure is.

I did mention I

might have a surprise for you just in case something happened, but I'm glad you actually were able to jump on. Okay. ⁓

Carolina (1:51:54)
It's an honor.

Eric (1:51:56)
And what was my response?

No.

Erika (1:52:02)
Yes, yes, yes. He's like, I didn't do my hair. What was it? A week, you said, without ⁓ buzzing it?

Eric (1:52:04)
You

It's been a

while because just I didn't, was lazy with the whole gout thing. Gout is, my God, and I don't, you jumped in right in the middle of the gout story, but there's no history. The doctor was like, I don't understand. I think she was thinking more stress fracture, but I was like, the pain and the spot was like gout. So I'm on steroids and we'll see. I feel amazing today. Like I could go running.

Erika (1:52:26)
Mm-hmm.

Why do you have to be on those, by the way?

Just until the swelling? Five months? Like, holy shit.

Eric (1:52:32)
Five months. No, I'm kidding. Five days. Five days.

So today, when this drops, Tuesday is the last day. They told me to take it in the mornings because I won't sleep well at night. If I took it at night. Yeah! Anyways, I'm not angry at you for bringing Carolina on. I'm excited. So tell me about your weekend. What did the two of you do? You saw each other both days. How much trash talk did you talk? How much hate about me?

Carolina (1:52:37)
It's like wow.

Erika (1:52:44)
⁓ get the roid rage. Is that a thing?

Good, good, good, good.

both days. So much hate.

Eric (1:53:00)
and about the work I put you through and I'm about to put you through a lot of work before giving you three solid weeks off.

Erika (1:53:06)
Well, we had some fun conversations. So ⁓ one of the first times we hung out, so we were still getting to know each other. Like we'd see each other at races. Like we knew each other from like podcast talk and we went to a brewery together. We went to Spyglass. This was a while ago. So we all just hung out and then we're like, we need to do this again. Well, we finally got to do it again. And we went to Epigram down in Tingsboro and we just had a nice afternoon.

couple drinks, a half a pickle pizza that I forgot, and lots of chatting.

Carolina (1:53:38)
Hahaha.

Eric (1:53:40)
Carolina, does pickles belong on pizza?

Carolina (1:53:43)
Pickles belong on pizza. Pickles absolutely belong on pizza.

Eric (1:53:45)
Really?

that's the first time I ever heard of it. Do you remember the first time you met me, Carolina?

Erika (1:53:48)
It was delicious. Dude, it is good pizza.

Carolina (1:53:50)
It was.

I do, I forget what the race was, but I remember that it was at 603 Brewery and Yuki, Yuki introduced us cause you came over with some stickers. And I said that I had not listened to Yuki's episode yet because the new Taylor Swift album. Yeah. And the new Taylor Swift album had dropped and that was my priority.

Eric (1:53:57)
Uh-huh.

Which I thought at the time you were actually saying I don't listen to podcasts because I only listen to Taylor Swift. And then I realized it was just the new album and it's not the showgirl one, was whatever, was new and hot.

Carolina (1:54:25)
Yeah, it was the Tortured Poets Department. That was the one.

Eric (1:54:28)
Was that the

one with the, what was the big song from that? I act like a Swifty, but I'm really a Kelsey.

Carolina (1:54:32)
⁓

there were, there were a couple of big ones. but that was her post. Yeah. Yeah. That was post her breakup with the guy that she, everyone thought she was going to end up with. And then they broke up and then she dated some other guy for like two weeks and he ghosted her. And so, and then she started dating.

Erika (1:54:35)
you

Eric (1:54:39)
The broken heart one. I can do it with a broken heart. That's the one.

Carolina (1:54:59)
Travis Kelsea. So that was that in-between album.

Eric (1:55:03)
do you know the storyline, like how he, how he like manifested dating her and he went to, he had a friendship bracelet with his number and it just all worked out and they shared it on his podcast. It got out to the inter-rebs on Instagram because they did, content Erika because it works and.

Carolina (1:55:08)
What? Who does it?

Erika (1:55:11)
Is that a thing?

Carolina (1:55:15)
Yeah, I see.

Yeah. Yeah.

Erika (1:55:24)
They have

people for that.

Carolina (1:55:27)
was funny. Like, so he, she was playing at the Chiefs Stadium and he went to the concert because he plays for the Chiefs and he really liked her. And so he made a friendship bracelet and he tried to get upstairs to where she was and they wouldn't let him because he wasn't on the list. So then he went on his. Yeah.

Erika (1:55:48)
Smart, yep. Stranger danger.

Eric (1:55:48)
He thought he could just walk in, he plays there.

Yeah.

Carolina (1:55:52)
So he went on the podcast with his brother and was like, trash talking Taylor being like, why couldn't I come see you? I had a bracelet with my phone number on it and her people heard it. And she was like, but did he ask to be on the list? And they were like, no. And so then that's how they met, but he absolutely manifested it.

Erika (1:56:13)
What a story. How romantic.

Eric (1:56:13)
love it.

Carolina (1:56:15)
What?

Yes.

Eric (1:56:19)
She kinda says like as creepy as it is, it's the way she always wanted it to happen. Yeah.

Carolina (1:56:23)
Yeah, yeah.

Like she couldn't write a song about it. Like this was what she wanted. Yeah.

Eric (1:56:29)
Right. It was fun because I listened. I love, I don't listen to the entire episode that they do. I forget the name of their podcast, ⁓ but I love to listen to the beginning because I love Jason Kelsey's energy, right? And I watched on YouTube. I remember it was actually the night after we had Scott on our guest who we just recorded or just dropped this episode. It was that week and I was on a work trip in that everyone's talking about the podcast was going to come out.

Carolina (1:56:43)
Yes.

Eric (1:56:56)
and it dropped on YouTube at like seven o'clock. I'm watching it like nine o'clock. I already had five million views. And I heard the whole story about her getting her music rights back and everything and owning her music. And that's thing because the guy from the Beatles, ⁓ McCarthy, first name is escaping me. Paul, Paul, he didn't own his music. And do you know who actually bought his music and didn't give Paul the chance to buy it?

Erika (1:57:03)
Sounds about right.

Courtney.

Carolina (1:57:15)
Courtney, Paul.

Erika (1:57:16)
Paul.

Carolina (1:57:26)
Wasn't it Michael Jackson? Yeah.

Eric (1:57:26)
One of his good friends, Michael Jackson.

Right. Michael wanted to own his music and reap the benefits, the revenue of it versus letting Paul own his own music. And other people are doing that to Taylor. That's why...

Erika (1:57:32)
weird web.

royalties and stuff holy shit awful

I'm Kesha too, something like, yeah.

Eric (1:57:46)
It's probably happened to a lot of them, but like Taylor's

huge and Paul McCartney's huge so those make headlines But that's why when you go to Spotify and you look for the song say love story You see love story, and then you see love story Taylor's version if you listen to Taylor's version She reaps the benefits of that play if you listen to the non one and somebody else Right Yeah took some ownership. I like I like those stories. I like those stories and you learn about someone in

Erika (1:57:51)
Mm-hmm.

yeah, she re-recorded everything pretty much, so good for her. Taking control.

Eric (1:58:15)
with all the work they had to do. So I think I appreciate her more now today hearing those things than before. ⁓

Erika (1:58:22)
Well, I mean,

the two of you are going to the wedding together, aren't you? Like, you're...

Eric (1:58:26)
Yeah, but I'm on the Kelsey side of the bench. Yeah. It's fine.

Carolina (1:58:32)
It's fine. It's fine.

Erika (1:58:32)
Carolina

doesn't need to sit next to you. She just needs to get in the door. That's all that matters.

Carolina (1:58:37)
I just need the end.

Eric (1:58:39)
Yeah.

So, no, it's been fun because I met you that night and I thought, okay, you're going to take a sticker. You're going to put it on your, water bottle or whatever. But then you just were like all in.

Carolina (1:58:52)
Well, because you guys are great. I love listening to you guys and... ⁓ stop.

Erika (1:58:58)
Well,

Yuki helped. she had her amazing stories. So that definitely drew you in and but but it was us that made you stay.

Carolina (1:59:06)
Yes, absolutely.

Eric (1:59:07)
So you two actually did

a run today, Sunday, we're recording on Sunday. You two did a run. What was the run you did? Because I think you asked me a while ago.

Carolina (1:59:15)
⁓ So it's the November Fest. It's in Mind Falls and it benefits the Nashville Children's Home. a four-mileer. goes through Mind Falls every November. ⁓

Erika (1:59:24)
Right up your alley, man. That's why I threw it out

there. I was like, come on. But I didn't get any takers.

Eric (1:59:28)
You threw it out

Carolina (1:59:28)
Thanks.

Eric (1:59:29)
there because it's down the street from your house.

Erika (1:59:31)
So you throw stuff out this down the street from your house and I'm like, yeah, right.

Eric (1:59:36)
Where was I today? I don't even remember what I was doing. Yard work, cleaning, power washing things.

Erika (1:59:39)
⁓ Well, I just wanted you

like you even offered yesterday like I had a 12 miler to do yesterday and I like you're like Where are you gonna be? What time are you gonna be at? I'm like, we're like dude your toe just like give it a rest literally rest it. That was literally it you're gonna drive to Londonderry just to do that

Eric (1:59:49)
Well, I just wanted to show up and like take a video is actually what I wanted to do. Yes, I wasn't I I

actually felt like I could run But I wanted to give a couple more days because I'm gonna try to go skiing on Wednesday Because I'm really excited and then I'm we're gonna run the turkey trot on Thursday Will you be are you running a turkey trot Carolina?

Erika (2:00:02)
⁓ okay. Wait.

Carolina (2:00:11)
I am running a Turkey Trot. I run, no, not that one. know.

Eric (2:00:13)
in Manchester.

WAH

WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

Carolina (2:00:20)
you

Erika (2:00:20)
Tell him which

one you are running because it is also a good one.

Carolina (2:00:24)
It's a good one. run the one that ⁓ runs on the same rail trail as ⁓ the Ghost Train Ultra. yeah, and it benefits the Brookline Conservation Commission. So that's why I do that, because it's my backyard.

Eric (2:00:31)
Well, we did that.

There you go. Tell us a little bit about

Erika (2:00:38)
So she doesn't have to drive

40 minutes to go do something.

Carolina (2:00:41)
Exactly.

Eric (2:00:43)
while you're here, let's learn a little bit about you. Like, we know what we know online. We talk about you. I get your name right all the time, but tell us a little bit about yourself.

Carolina (2:00:51)
Ha ha!

I mean, I'm a single mom of two kids, ⁓ Marcus who's 14 and Lily who's, she'd hate me, Liliana who's 10. ⁓ And I talk about them a lot because they're my world. don't want to say what I do for work, but I work. running. ⁓

Erika (2:01:11)
That's fair.

Eric (2:01:12)
We'll just stick with only

feet.

Carolina (2:01:15)
I should, well, we talked about that today and that's gonna be, that's our new game plan. yes, exactly. started running. So when Liliana was born, she was a late developer. So she was technically a premium. She was a late developer and she was struggling with walking. And I wanted to get in shape so that I could hang out with the kids. And then it became this thing of, well, Lily's not walking.

Erika (2:01:15)
you

That slash social media manager. Gotta put the title in there. There we go.

Carolina (2:01:42)
I want to be able to run for her. So I started training for a marathon and that was nine years ago, 10 years, yeah, nine years ago. And so I did the Bay State Marathon, was my first marathon for my 40th birthday. No, that's not right. Anyway, and then I did Boston twice right after that. And then I haven't had a talk, not a big deal.

Erika (2:01:44)
Mm-hmm.

Eric (2:02:08)
Not a big deal.

Carolina (2:02:11)
I didn't qualify for Boston. had to raise money. I raised $15,000 from me. Yeah. I ran 2017, which was a super hot year for me. And then I ran the lovely 2018 where it snowed at the beginning and rained the entire time and was just a really miserable time. So.

Erika (2:02:15)
Ain't no shame in that. No shame.

Eric (2:02:17)
What

years did you run Boston?

Erika (2:02:32)
See, I told you we were kindred spirits because we totally relate to a lot of things. So that was a year for sure.

Carolina (2:02:34)
you

Yup.

It was a year. It was a year.

Eric (2:02:42)
How did you get involved with ⁓ Rob and Ghost Train? I see you more at these running events as a volunteer than I do running. I do see you running at some. I saw you at Manchester last year. We passed each other on the rail trail. But I see you volunteering a ton. How do you get involved?

Carolina (2:03:00)
Yeah.

⁓ I think after I ran Boston twice, ⁓ I wanted to give back to the community, but I didn't want to have to raise a lot of money. ⁓ so I became involved with a local running club and that's how I met Rob. and he would just show up at other races like the TARC races and the TARC races are too technical for me. So I would not have fun running them, but I can volunteer and I can help people.

⁓ reach their goals and stuff like that. So that's basically what I like to do. I like to be part of the community and I'm not, I'm a definite back of the packer turtle runner. So I like to make sure that the back packers and the middle of the pack get the support that they need, you know, just as much as the elite or the faster runners. So.

Erika (2:03:51)
Mm-hmm. You are one of the best kinds of people because you truly do want to take care of people and you do the best job at it. And like, I can't even tell you how much we appreciate it. I'm calling it the royal we, but even just having you at Ghost Train as like even emotional support. Because I came in like some of the nighttime aid station and I'm just like, like on my last leg and you're like.

Carolina (2:04:00)
Well, thank you.

Thank

Erika (2:04:18)
No, just keep going. here's some bacon in a cup, take a walk. And sometimes that's the most important thing is just being the encouragement for somebody to get them to reach their goals.

Carolina (2:04:31)
I mean, it's really important for me. I've, I've strived for some big goals and fallen short a lot of times. and I know what that's like. I know what it's like to dedicate your free time and life to training for something and then falling short. ⁓ if I can help someone get out the, get out the door and keep going, that's what I'm going to do. And it's always a fine line, right? Because you don't want to push someone who really can't go back out there.

⁓ But most of the time they can, they just need to believe in themselves and have that person to be like, nope, you're not going to sit down, you're just going to keep going.

Erika (2:05:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yep, that's realizing the difference between like, you injured or are you just like exhausted? Because you can get over the exhaustion thing, but an injury, that's not something to push at. But yeah, I mean, that's a human thing. That is a very human thing to try and to fail and to try again. I think that's just very noble. I mean, I know that you've got, well, hopefully we'll have another big race coming up this year that's

Carolina (2:05:20)
Yes. Right.

Yeah.

Erika (2:05:38)
We'll

get you to those goals you're looking at.

Carolina (2:05:41)
Yeah, I mean, that's the plan. It's a lot of, I mean, I think everybody struggles with this. If you don't struggle with it, then I don't know that we can be friends, but there's a lot of self doubt, right? like it's, it's, you know, the imposter syndrome and not thinking you're good enough to be out there or, you know, because I'm a back of a pack, back of the packer, you know, do I even have a shot of trying to do that?

Erika (2:05:53)
absolutely.

Carolina (2:06:11)
⁓ and reach those, those big goals, but you gotta kind of just, if that's what you want, you gotta just kind of keep chasing it. ⁓ and I love seeing the people like at ghost train who, you know, they start out the race and they're, they're hopeful, but it's like a reserved hopeful. It's they don't want to believe that they can do it. And then they get that moment where it's like, okay, no, you can, you can just, just walk this next lap and see what happens. And then they come back and they.

Erika (2:06:19)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah.

Carolina (2:06:40)
with their goal and they're getting a buckle and they're like, my God, I didn't think this was actually going to happen. So ⁓ those are the like my favorite time of the Ghost Train race is the golden hour, that last hour and seeing those people who really worked to get to where they're not that everybody doesn't work, but it's very different when you're winning the race versus coming in at the last minute and hitting your goal.

Erika (2:07:01)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

You and I and quite a few other people shared a few tears during that golden hour because it really is an emotional time watching people finish and knowing it was so hard work and you're coming in under the wire but you're coming in and you're finishing and just the emotions come out full force and it hits everybody who gets to be a part of that.

Eric's seen that because he, were you around when I finished Hamster Wheel when I was like bawling my eyes out or like you were there right before like maybe, because I was in a bad way. Yes, I was in a bad way.

Eric (2:07:36)
Yeah. It was almost like you were mad I was there. But you were mad because you knew what I was there for and you didn't want to be.

I wasn't looking to actually make the content. I was just looking to say, here's Erika, know, mile 99. And you're like, dude, I'm not in the mood. That's literally what you said. And I didn't even say anything. I was just like, let's go.

Erika (2:07:55)
Shut up.

Emotions are wild during these kind of races and especially if you have that self-imposed time limit and you know you have to, but you want to finish this thing more than anything and it's just so stressful and I'm like, don't have time to be happy. I don't have time to be pleasant. I feel like shit. I do apologize if... ⁓ I did have to take a shit.

Eric (2:08:27)
You had to take a shit too.

Carolina (2:08:28)
Hahaha!

⁓

Erika (2:08:31)
See all things, alters are fun people. But I am sorry if those emotions come off in a bad way. Because normally I'm a fucking ray of sunshine, you guys.

Eric (2:08:41)
No, she's nice

to everybody else. I am okay being the sacrifice.

Erika (2:08:46)
That's because you give me so much shit. We do get along very well, though. I think I think we do. Yeah. No.

Carolina (2:08:47)
Hahaha!

Eric (2:08:49)
I'm okay with it.

Carolina (2:08:50)
We all need that

person. We all need that person that you can just give shit to. think like I give a lot of shit to Rob because we have been friends for years and like he we've been through a lot. And when I ran Manchester City last year, I was struggling. I and he had offered to pace me for the first half because he was going to do the half marathon. And I was struggling from like

Erika (2:09:01)
You guys have been through a lot.

Mm.

Carolina (2:09:19)
mile three on and we were coming through to the point where he could go straight to finish and I had to take the left to keep going or the whatever direction and I had said to him a couple of miles before that I don't I think I'm gonna just bow out at mile 13 and finish with a half marathon and as we're getting to that point where he's either finishing and I'm finishing or I'm going keep going and he goes what are you gonna do and I was like you can just go f off

finish your effing race. I didn't even say goodbye. I just turned and just kept going. And he gave me shit for that later. And I was like, listen, I was in a bad spot. And I needed to just be done with you. Like

Erika (2:09:58)
Mm-hmm.

See, that helped you. That helped you keep going. So sometimes it's a sacrifice, at somebody's expense.

Carolina (2:10:04)
It did. It did. It did.

Eric (2:10:10)
I like to yell at Peloton instructors on the screen in front of me, like when I get mad at them. I like to run. It's usually like I'm just yelling, up! I don't care! I don't yell at Matt Wilpers though. Matt's the best.

Erika (2:10:13)
my god.

Carolina (2:10:15)
Yeah.

Erika (2:10:20)
you

He's

the only one, he's the exception.

Eric (2:10:26)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I had to, I've been bouncing out. So this is perfect that you jumped in here and you're kind of co-hosting because Tommy's now had two code Browns. The first was minor, the last was major. We're talking nasty. We're in that phase right now. Yeah, we're in that phase right now of we're out of diapers, but we're having some accidents. We've been out diapers for like five months now, but there's accidents that are happening. A little too much lately, I'll be honest.

Carolina (2:10:26)
Ha ha.

no.

Thank

Erika (2:10:39)
Kids

are fun. Carolina can relate to that, though. She's got kids.

Carolina (2:10:42)
Yes.

Erika (2:10:47)
⁓ uh-huh. Okay.

Carolina (2:10:49)
Thank

Erika (2:10:57)
I have no notes. I don't know. I don't know how to fix that. ⁓

Carolina (2:10:59)
It's

Eric (2:11:02)
What's your advice for me, Carolina?

Carolina (2:11:03)
Is there some stress that's going on in their life that they're regressing to that?

Eric (2:11:09)
No, I just think they're too into whatever they're into at the moment and they don't want to stop. Because there's sometimes they just surprise the heck out of you. You're like, Tommy, anyone seen Tommy? And then you look, he's in the bathroom taking a dump on the toilet. You're like, no way. 24 hours later, all down his leg.

Carolina (2:11:11)
I don't know.

Yeah, that's tough.

Erika (2:11:16)
⁓

Carolina (2:11:23)
You

Erika (2:11:23)
you

Carolina (2:11:26)
Thank

Erika (2:11:27)
What? ⁓

poor kid.

Carolina (2:11:33)
Yeah,

I can't really share.

Eric (2:11:34)
So I dipped out because I

leave the door open and I can hear him yelling, dad, dad. I'm like, OK, if he's not coming to me, he feels like he can't move right now. ⁓

Carolina (2:11:39)
Hahaha

Erika (2:11:40)
Yeah.

Carolina (2:11:46)
Yeah.

Eric (2:11:50)
I need a shower. Bad.

Carolina (2:11:51)
Hahaha

Erika (2:11:54)
We're learning a lot of things tonight. ⁓ Eric.

Eric (2:11:56)
So

I don't know what I missed when you gave a little update about yourself, but you got into ultras You do a lot of volunteering you've run Boston a couple times We do see you quite a bit with Yuki How did you become friends with Yuki and is she your coach or has she coached you in the past?

Carolina (2:12:12)
⁓ She's never coached me. We met through the running group that I met Rob at ⁓ and We share a lot of things in common. We both like horror movies and it's just comfortable for us to hang out and Sadly, we don't see each other as much now because she's got the two older girls and she's he's jetting around everywhere and I've got the two ones here, but Yeah, but we talk pretty much daily

Eric (2:12:33)
the world tour.

Erika (2:12:36)
She is all over the place.

Eric (2:12:37)
Unreal.

Carolina (2:12:42)
⁓ her me and Paula talk pretty pretty regularly and ⁓ she was very sweet when COVID hit and Girls on the Run they had to do it kind of virtually ⁓ and we Lily wanted to do it but she couldn't make it to the group virtual run so she and Eric put on her husband Eric put on a ⁓ a separate run just for Lily

Erika (2:12:54)
Mm-hmm.

Carolina (2:13:08)
And so we, yeah, so we ran like, you know, half a mile down from her house and then half mile back and Eric dressed up as a unicorn because Lily loved unicorns at that time. And I have this cute little video of Lily running like up a hill saying, I can do it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. And, um, Lily fell in love with Yuki and called her Yuki corn. That's how that kind of started.

Eric (2:13:31)
Wait,

Erika (2:13:32)
Love that.

Eric (2:13:33)
that really how that came to be?

Carolina (2:13:34)
I

don't know if that's the first time she ever got called Yuki Korn, but ⁓ that's what my daughter always called her. My daughter would never call her just Yuki. It was always Yuki Korn.

Eric (2:13:41)
We're just gonna say it was. We're gonna go with that.

Erika (2:13:50)
That is the best way.

Eric (2:13:50)
You kick corn 11. That is her

Carolina (2:13:52)
⁓

Eric (2:13:52)
Instagram handle.

Carolina (2:13:53)
Yeah.

Eric (2:13:54)
Like I never. Well, I always thought it had to do.

Erika (2:13:57)
child

gives you a nickname, you keep that nickname. That is a rule.

Eric (2:14:00)
Right.

Carolina (2:14:00)
Right? I don't know

if she had it before, but it just fits because she was always dressed up like a unicorn and I had never heard it before Lily saying Yu-Gi-Corn. So.

Eric (2:14:11)
I love that Eric's always on board for everything too, and he's a diehard Bruins So I gotta go to a game. We mentioned that thing earlier, Erika, you were like the Jonas Brothers tickets, and I posted the Bruins ticket reel like, how much is it? $30, $40? Oh, $34,000, god damn! I can only afford to go to Bruins game by myself. I can't take my own kids with me.

Carolina (2:14:26)
you

Erika (2:14:30)
Yeah.

Eric (2:14:37)
Yuki is amazing. that's like Yuki introduced me to you and then this whole thing happened. And then somehow you and Erika found each other and are now besties, even though Erika doesn't know what your real name is.

Carolina (2:14:41)
Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Erika (2:14:50)
That

was one time. And I bought her a beer for it, OK?

Eric (2:14:56)
Now did you buy her a beer? Like to prepare her for the moment?

Carolina (2:14:56)
We did.

Erika (2:15:01)
got you a beer, but you had me put it on your tab, so that didn't count, but then I bought you a beer later. But then you bought me the first beer? I don't know. We're even at this point, I think.

Carolina (2:15:08)
There was a little beard.

Yeah, we're even. We're good.

Erika (2:15:12)
So I'm so happy you jumped on here with us today. So I have to give you the honors of picking a song for our playlist. Would you like to do that?

Eric (2:15:19)
Ooh,

her questions she asks everybody every year.

Carolina (2:15:21)
I will be.

Erika (2:15:22)
I'm never changing

it, you guys. Deal with it. It's mine.

Carolina (2:15:27)
⁓ I can't tell you. No, no, no. I can't tell you how excited I am to be asked this question because every episode I'm like.

Eric (2:15:27)
I'm gonna talk to your representation about this.

I know, but we're gonna

talk to you, we're gonna talk later about having her, you know, changing things up once in a while.

Carolina (2:15:41)
is fine, this is it's obviously gonna be a Taylor Swift song. And I have thought about this question very often. And I always go between two different songs. One of them is you're on your own kid. And then the other one is you can do it with a broken heart because they're like just songs that like.

Eric (2:16:04)
Everybody, it's alright. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. That's not it? was I off? I thought that was the song.

Carolina (2:16:06)
That's it. I don't know what he's saying. No. ⁓

Erika (2:16:10)
the

new one.

Carolina (2:16:13)
Mm-mm. No, but I think I would go with... I don't know what you're singing, Eric. ⁓ I think I would go with...

Eric (2:16:15)
What is that one?

Cause everybody,

it's alright. I've been dancing by the sun- ⁓ wait, that's the one everyone- whatever. Yeah, that's the new one. It's stuck in my head cause everyone's doing it.

Carolina (2:16:22)
Hold still.

Let's flip a light.

Erika (2:16:31)
Is that your new choice, Eric? You get a 2026 song?

Eric (2:16:32)
No.

Carolina (2:16:33)
That's Eric's new

choice. No, Eric would choose wood, but ⁓ it is a great song. I think I would go with, can do it with a broken heart because it's just kind of, it's sad, but also motivating. Like whatever you're going through, you can still move forward and do the things that you want to do and it's okay. And it's okay to be sad.

Eric (2:16:35)
No.

Erika (2:16:39)
That is a great song, by the way. Anywho.

Eric (2:16:45)
Okay.

Erika (2:17:00)
So you understand the assignment. I love it. Nice choice.

Eric (2:17:05)
I'm going to give you something cool, an honor right now. I'm going to give you and the listeners, they're going to hear for the first time what my next question is for 2026. But I'm not going to do that until you tell me who your plus one is to our pasta dinner.

Erika (2:17:16)
Ooh.

Carolina (2:17:17)
no.

I have also thought about this question and I know absolutely who I would invite. I don't know if you guys know Tommy Rives, Pusey. So I would absolutely invite Tommy Rives. ⁓ I have followed him since before he had gotten sick and I got to meet him at, yeah. So I knew about him before he got sick and was following him. And then I,

Erika (2:17:41)
so you were...

Wow.

Carolina (2:17:49)
went through the whole like him getting sick and almost dying. Yeah. And in 20, it was after he got sick. So I want to say like 21 or 22 when he ran Boston for the first time, I got to meet him and I'm on the iFit Boston marathon video, like crying and he, yeah, I am, yeah.

Erika (2:17:51)
His whole, yeah, journey. ⁓ no.

Eric (2:18:10)
Are you really?

Carolina (2:18:14)
⁓ Rob was there and we saw him coming and Rob was like, she loves you and I'm wearing his hat and stuff. And he came over and ⁓ I totally fangirled and said, I'm crying. And he goes, I'm crying too, but that's why we're wearing sunglasses. And ⁓ yeah, it was a very meaningful like moment. ⁓ And so I would absolutely, if I had the chance to invite him to our pasta dinner, that is who I would invite.

Eric (2:18:40)
That's a great kit. That's a great kit.

Erika (2:18:41)
I love it. ⁓

Eric (2:18:43)
Tommy's amazing. His story is something else. Next time you run into him and you're crying and you got these sunglasses and all just be like, and my friends have a podcast. You got to go on their podcast. They would make me so happy. My tears would turn into happy tears.

Erika (2:18:43)
Yeah.

Carolina (2:18:51)
Hahahaha

Erika (2:18:53)
We'll have you jump

on for that and you can ask him some questions too.

He really does have an incredible story. if you guys haven't heard it yet, like we should work on getting him on the podcast. He's just amazing. Ashley. Ashley Paulson.

Carolina (2:18:59)
He really does. ⁓

Eric (2:19:00)
Yeah.

Does anyone know him? Would love it. So I actually respect his Instagram

because his Instagram says for inquiries, please don't. So I'm like, okay, he's not interested in doing any stuff right now. But it's also said that for the past two years.

Erika (2:19:15)
That's very valid, that is fair.

I mean, he's been working on recovering and trying to feel like himself again. And I completely understand.

Eric (2:19:29)
It's gotta

be an in-person one. Yeah. When we have a studio, which by the way, I wrote a note here in my notes that when we do build our own studio, I want there to be a locker room and showers so we can like go running from there, but then we can clean. Like we need our own little like a room with treadmills and you know, just I want, I always, every office I've had has a locker room and showers and I love that I can take a shower at work.

Erika (2:19:31)
I think so, yeah. That would be pretty cool.

Eric has big dreams for us.

Carolina (2:19:52)
I hate it.

Erika (2:19:56)
That is really cool. I don't have that luxury and I would love to have that luxury, but.

Eric (2:20:00)
You should

in your line of work dealing with male, male, whatever.

Erika (2:20:04)
Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. You're making her laugh. Shut up.

Carolina (2:20:09)
Ha ha!

Erika (2:20:14)
The amount of people were like, but wait, what do you actually do? And just forget it. I don't work anymore, guys. I am full-time podcast. There is no sperm bank.

Eric (2:20:25)
She has her people now. Like she's paying for people. Yep. All right. Do you want to know what my question for 2026 is? We've already started asking our guests that we've already been recording with for next year this question. So we know what it is, but this will be the first time everybody's hearing it and you will be the first one to give an answer. I am putting you on the spot. All right. My big question for 2026 is what is your hot

Erika (2:20:29)
Duh.

Carolina (2:20:47)
Okay, I'm ready. Hit me.

Eric (2:20:55)
take? It can be running, can be life, it can be anything, it can be what's going on right now in the world. What is your hot take?

Carolina (2:21:04)
Huh, I feel like maybe this isn't gonna answer your question, but I feel like people are just coming out of like, I know COVID, it's not like over, over, but that whole like where it closed off from people, I feel like this is the first year that it hasn't felt closed off. And so I really hope that 2026 can be a year of like,

just being positive and helping people out and being kind and not having, yeah, and not having that negative energy. There's just so much negativity around. So I think my hot take would be for 2026, yes. And like, and.

Erika (2:21:37)
There's not enough of that around.

Eric (2:21:49)
Everyone needs to stop being a little bitch.

Erika (2:21:52)
you

Carolina (2:21:56)
do the things that make you happy. It doesn't matter if you're great at it. If it's making you happy and it's not hurting anyone, go do it. Like I started doing open mic night because I love music and I love singing and I never had anyone really push me in that direction. And so I finally was like, okay, I'm just going to do it. And I haven't looked back and I love it. And I think everybody should just do the things that they, that make them happy.

and stop being scared. Stop being a little bitch. Stop being a little bitch.

Erika (2:22:29)
love that. ⁓

Eric (2:22:29)
Stop being a little bitch. I like it. Yeah, I got some

motivation when the Ali G show had someone on and her hot take was, the Boston Marathon is a scam. And it had so much engagement on that post, it blew up. And I was like, the hot take question might be good. Might be good. I probably should ask it at the beginning of the episode, not the end, but it's my ending question for every guest next year and you're the first one. So congratulations.

Carolina (2:22:39)
Cool.

Erika (2:22:45)
it.

Carolina (2:22:48)
Yeah.

Thank

you.

Eric (2:22:57)
That's,

I like it. And Erika, write it down. Everyone should stop being a little bitch and be nice to people.

Erika (2:23:02)
I got it, I have it written down, I'll start the Google

Carolina (2:23:02)
Why?

Erika (2:23:06)
Doc.

Eric (2:23:07)
Yes,

I love it. This was a lot of fun. Open mic night, so you go and sing. You don't like just tell jokes. You don't tell jokes about like how a guy is kind of like a toothbrush after a while. He's not so hard and just an electrical wand does the trick.

Carolina (2:23:23)
Nope, I don't tell jokes. ⁓

Eric (2:23:29)
That's one for you to use next time you're on Open Mic.

Carolina (2:23:29)
Yeah

Okay, I will definitely use it. Erika's like,

Eric (2:23:34)
It's a classic one women like to say. I'm feeding

you material here, I got you.

Erika (2:23:40)
We got to

talk to Rob Fierro because he's got all the dad jokes and you love those. So he can be your encyclopedia of dad jokes.

Carolina (2:23:44)
No, we really don't.

Eric (2:23:44)
I'll be, I'm all in. I'm all in. Yep.

We'll talk about how I sometimes a good wife is like a bottle of ketchup. I'm not going to end that joke. Figure it out.

Erika (2:23:55)
you

Carolina (2:23:55)
you

Erika (2:23:58)
I'm so happy that you came on to join us tonight. And I'm glad I kind of gave Erika, ⁓ Eric a little surprise because yeah, yeah, it was our little secret.

Eric (2:24:04)
You did good. You did really good. Proud of you. You're thinking

Carolina (2:24:07)
Thank you.

Eric (2:24:09)
outside the box. I don't need this every episode, but this is like on the right moment. Maybe a week where it's like, what are we going to talk about? Dude, it was great. Good job. You know what? You know what you get? You get one of these.

Erika (2:24:18)
Yeah, we had a fun weekend, so I'm glad I get to wrap it up. Wrap it up a good way.

Carolina (2:24:21)
you

Erika (2:24:25)
Thank you. Thank you. We'll have it. That's for you, my friend. Thank you for coming on here. And this is fun.

Carolina (2:24:27)
Yeah. ⁓

Thank you. Thank you both.

Eric (2:24:32)
Yeah.

You need a sign off though. your sign off gonna be?

Erika (2:24:35)
⁓

Carolina (2:24:35)
I do?

Erika (2:24:36)
All right, so you have one, you have about a minute to think about it before we get into the end of this thing. But we are going to be at the Fisher Cat 5K on Thursday. We hope to see you there. It's going to be me, Eric, Hanna, even weather permitting Adaline, Tara Ptaradactyl. We're going to have a great crew out there. Weather's looking good. So we look forward to seeing you out there. Come say hello. We're going to have a blast before we eat some feisty thundered chicken. That's so hard to remember.

Eric (2:24:53)
Weather's looking good!

chicken, the butterball that

mom grabbed from Market Basket a month ago because it was half off and it's been sitting in the basement freezer ever since. Gonna enjoy those food comas. And by the way, we only have one more episode for the rest of the year. I am looking forward to it. And then December, we're going to get to work with Monday night media and we're going to have an amazing 2026. Don't forget, we are going to record a Christmas special.

Erika (2:25:06)
That's so hard to remember.

There you go.

Eric (2:25:32)
and a Monday night media state of the pod type of thing year in review that actually Erika probably won't even be a part of it because I'm giving her the time off because she's awesome. She's the best. If she could just do a freaking content, Erika, take us home.

Carolina (2:25:46)
You

Erika (2:25:49)
Here's to a new year, you guys. Looking forward to it. But as always, thank you so much for listening. You know we love you.

Eric (2:25:56)
Don't fear the code brown.

Carolina (2:25:58)
Everyone be kind and don't be a little bitch.

Erika (2:26:01)
And don't forget to stretch.

Eric (2:26:52)
We'll talk about how I sometimes a good wife is like a bottle of ketchup. I'm not going to end that joke. Figure it out. Flip it around and banging on the kitchen counter.

Erika (2:27:00)
you

Carolina (2:27:00)
you

Erika (2:27:03)
so happy you joined us tonight.

You weren't going to finish the joke. Yeah.

Carolina (2:27:10)
He couldn't leave it.