Lose Your Mind Podcast
Join us for our brand new podcast - Lose Your Mind. Alan & Kelly are Mindfulness teachers and over a series of episodes, will take you on a journey to discover why this practice is so important. Tune in so you can hear why you need to lose your mind to get it back!
Lose Your Mind Podcast
From Podcast to Radio: Kelly Saward in Conversation with Alan Muskett
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Something a little different in today’s episode of LYM.
After many podcast conversations, Kelly Saward and Alan Muskett take it to the airwaves, coming together on Kelly's Good Morning Marlow radio show.
A real, open discussion around burnout, mindfulness, and finding a different way forward with honest insights and simple tools you can take away.
From podcast to radio… and a conversation worth sharing. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, stuck, or close to burnout this conversation is for you.
Enjoy.
Whether you’re an individual feeling overwhelmed, or a business wanting to better support your team we can support this, do get in touch.
#Mindfulness #BurnoutRecovery #MindsetShift #StressManagement #AnxietySupport #Resilience
Good morning, Alan. It's nice to have you here. Would you like to tell us a little bit about you?
SPEAKER_01I will. So my name is Alan, Alan Muskett. I'm um I'm not from around these parts, as you can probably tell from my accent. Um I'm from the Northwest, but I actually live in Worcestershire. And uh I have been a mindfulness teacher, practitioner for around about five or six years now. My background isn't at all in mental health, it's uh more in food manufacture, which is how I've spent my first career. But when I got to the age of 50, I decided I wanted another career and I decided to do something different. And that was to help other people with mental health issues because during my working career I had my fair share of those two.
SPEAKER_00And I think quite a lot of people do struggle privately about that, wouldn't you say? I think there are a lot of people in uh careers at the moment where mental health is very present, but we're lucky because it's being spoken more about each week, isn't it? Every week that goes on, there's more awareness around it, but possibly not some years ago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I sort of had a burnout experience about 10 years ago, and I remember that back then, if I'd have talked to my boss about it, I really felt like it would have hurt me in my career. It would have been a a black mark on my file, so to speak. Um but if you look at if you look at Google and like Google Trends, the the term mental health really kind of uh kind of rocketed in about 2016. I know there's a lot going on that year. Um but yeah, I think it's just it's far easier to talk about these things now. Although I think, as you say, awareness has increased, but I think you know, companies and managers can do more.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Well, it's a pleasure to have you here this morning. And saying about awareness there, I think that's what's key, isn't it? That's what a lot of people miss when we're talking about mindfulness, wouldn't you say? That people want to understand it better, but there's always this pressure and expectation about what being mindful is. So these simple, wonderful tools that we've got available are missed so often purely because of the perception.
SPEAKER_01Well, you and I both know that as mindfulness teachers, that there is such a misconception about what mindfulness actually is. Um, and awareness is the word, isn't it? Mindfulness is awareness, you know. And people think it's all about clearing your mind and emptying your mind of thoughts, um, when actually it's not, is it? It's um it's about being aware of your thoughts and just being present with who you are, what you're doing, what you're feeling, and all of that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, indeed. So if you don't mind me asking, back to you, with when you got to that point where your career change was ever so present that you something needed to change. How did you feel when you reached that point where things felt like, right, enough is enough now, you something needs to change. What did that feel like?
SPEAKER_01Uh pretty dark actually. Um and it was a lot of it was kind of self kind of administered, if you like. It wasn't anybody else's fault really, but my own. I had pressures of work, um, just like everybody else, but I kind of get it, let it get on top of me. And um, yeah, I just felt in a very dark place I couldn't sleep. And when you can't sleep, when you get on by in a couple of hours a night, and it's because you're stressed and anxious, then everything starts to look really black. So and I I just got to the stage where I thought I I I can't do this. By that time I was about 45, 46. I thought I can't do this for another 20 years, it'll kill me. And at the very least, I'm just not going to enjoy life as much as I possibly could. So that's why I decided to do something different.
SPEAKER_00And what led you to mindfulness initially? Was there something that did you already know about it while you were stressed?
SPEAKER_01Or not really. I'd I'd heard of meditation, but always, like a lot of people, just thought of it as being something that Buddhist monks did, you know, in the Tibetan mountains. Um I just Googled online. I just thought I I just put in something like, I'm feeling low, I'm feeling blue, and uh and then it came up on and there was a there was a picture actually, and it was they showed president to the United States, and they showed them before and after they took office and the impact that stress had upon them. So I can't remember which president it was at the time, but they all looked very much younger before they took office than when they left office. And I just quite in a shallow way, I thought, I don't wanna, I don't want to look old before my time, and I suddenly realised what stress was doing to me, not only in the way I was looking and appearing to people, but inside it was just a very miserable place.
SPEAKER_00It is, it can be a very, very miserable place to be, can't it? And I think it's key that people have the awareness that there are other things available for them. So when we talk about health and fitness and well-being, well-moving our bodies is really important, but it's also crucial to look after our minds, which is what our focus is going to be today.
SPEAKER_01So I thought um with coming on this show with you, Kelly, and it's got a mindfulness theme, that actually my songs have a mindfulness theme, and and faith is for me about allowing things to be as they are and having a bit of trust in the way life might turn out, if only you let it.
SPEAKER_00And that's really important message, isn't it? Because we can so often get caught up in our heads, and mindfulness is teaching us the opposite of that, which we will discuss a little bit more soon. But um, when you changed career, when you started to explore mindfulness, Alan, when you reached that point where you felt really low, you knew something had to change inside. Did you know by taking these steps to help yourself that it was always going to be something your career would change into, or did it evolve quite naturally?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'd I'd always hoped that it would, and I'd always had the intent that I wouldn't stay forever doing what I was doing. I didn't think I would be able to last much longer doing what I was doing because you know the corporate world is is pretty fast-paced, and I was starting to get a bit tired with it. But I the opportunity came when I got a redundancy, and uh and I thought, well, right, now's my chance.
SPEAKER_00And you took it.
SPEAKER_01I did, I did, and I'm so glad. I've never been happier.
SPEAKER_00So, did you have a bit of resistance with it, would you say? You know, when you started to explore mindfulness and meditation, was there that resistance, not knowing if you were doing it correctly? Was that part of it?
SPEAKER_01Well, there's a lot of imposter syndrome, if if that's what you mean. Um, yeah, and I still get imposter syndrome now. Um, I mean, I'm not just a mindfulness teacher, I'm also a hypnotherapist, I'm a resilience trainer. Um, so I I I've got a number of different hats, and I always feel even now that you know, am I really cutting it? And um there's a part of me that kind of pinches myself that I'm doing something that I really love too. And uh so so yeah, that there is that resistance inside, and maybe it's a little bit of fear, which is not bad to have fear as long as you don't let it take you over.
SPEAKER_00Which it all it so often can, can't it? I've experienced that myself, and I think as well, we can get really confused with that whole nervous excitement. You know, sometimes this that that feeling of excitement can also be that nervous dread. It's really difficult to pinpoint which one it is, and your mind just takes off, doesn't it? Which is why I suppose all the wonderful things that you're doing, you know, resilience is absolutely key, isn't it? To getting through things. Hypnotherapy is a wonderful thing and that I know that you do, it's not something that I do. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about um hypnotherapy, actually? Because there's a lot of misconception around it, I think.
SPEAKER_01Oh, there really is, yeah. So so the amount of jokes I've had about, you know, turning people into chickens and you know making them cluck, you know, and all that. And if you say a a certain word, then I'm gonna be controlling them. It's not like that at all, obviously, really. Stage hypnotism has kind of given hypnotherapy a bad name, really. But really, it's about hypnosis, and I even hesitate to use the word hypnosis with clients because um that implies that you're gonna you're gonna be taking control of. And and all it really is is allowing the client, if you like, that's sat in front of me to go into a relaxed state. Um, and when they're in a relaxed state, then they stop the fight or flight feeling, which is that kind of that panic mode that when your mind take your mind takes you over, but you take over your own mind again, and so you can start to um imagine, if you like, um what a good future looks like, and that's after you've kind of uncovered all the kind of rubbish that's in the way, because we all have blockages, we all have things that um just kind of get in our own way, really. And and I I always think that mindfulness helps you clear that blockage, and then I kind of use hypnotherapy to say, okay, well, if I can get you into a relaxed state and you start to think what good looks like um rather than what you don't want and what bad looks like, then that makes all the difference. And you do that in this relaxed state, and it's it's something we all we all do twice a day. Every time you wake up or fall asleep, you will go into this state of hypnosis, which I I'm doing air quotes there, but you know.
SPEAKER_00So I think it's that suggestive discussion, isn't it? So you're making suggestions and then leading people into that safe space where they can visualize something outside of the thoughts that keep them trapped. Would you say that's right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you you do make suggestions, but you tend to make suggestions based on what the client themselves is thinking and use their words because I you know, at the end of the day, the answers are all in your own head, and that's what I tell every client when they come to me. It's like I am not there to fix you, I am there to guide you, and you will find your own answers because at the end of the day, you are getting in your own way. Um, so yeah, it's about suggestion, but it's based upon what they want and what's good for them and what they've already told me.
SPEAKER_00And would you say using h hypnotherapy alongside mindfulness um has really blended quite well for you to be able to, you know, bring all the aspects of resilience and I suppose confidence and things like that together, I imagine they work very well.
SPEAKER_01They do work very well together. In fact, in some ways, if you go into a meditative state, it's a bit like going into a kind of a hypnotic trance, isn't it? You know, you sort of you suddenly feel calmer inside and and all of a sudden things just seem to clarify. So you use that state to kind of get yourself grounded, and then you use kind of imagination, visualization, um, to be able to use kind of metaphor as well. So very often you're taking people on a obviously in their own minds, you're taking them on a walk, you know, by a beach or through a forest, and and and they start to just make their own connections and and it's the subconscious mind that we're really trying to get to. So, like if you're, for example, afraid of flying, you know, it's a kind of a classic thing. Um, if you're afraid of flying and you'll come to me and I'll say, Well, you know, it's kind of ridiculous that you're afraid of flying, because did you know that statistically you're least likely to crash, you know, while you're flying a plane, and your conscious mind will go, Yeah, yeah, I totally get that. Meanwhile, down below in your head, there's the subconscious that says, Yeah, but I'm still, you know, I saw that news item last week when that plane went down, and there's still a chance, isn't there? You know, so it's about me as the therapist talking to the subconscious. And then the subconscious, it's like if there's a relationship between the subconscious and the conscious, the subconscious has the upper hand all the time. So the conscious mind would be saying, Yeah, I'm gonna go on a play, and the subconscious goes, nah-uh, not until I'm happy with it. So it's a case of kind of reprogramming yourself as a client, not me reprogramming you.
SPEAKER_00And I think it's important for anyone that's listening to have that understanding because there is definitely a misconception around it. Would you say that you um have a specific type of clientele or an area that you prefer working on particularly, would you say?
SPEAKER_01Not so much. I talk to people who are just stressed out, um, have anxiety, um, then may have some kind of phobia. Um I had a client recently who had claustrophobia and didn't like being in a plane. Not because they were afraid of it crashing, but just because they didn't like being stuck in a metal tube 35,000 feet up in the air, which I can kind of understand. Um you know, some trauma. Um so I I don't specialise anywhere particularly at the moment. Um, but I might do. One of the things I am working on though more um is working with pain. Um because a lot of the pain that we suffer, although it is physical and has a physical cause, uh, we tend to make it worse by exacerbating the nervous system with stress and emotion. Um so I'm I work out of um a physiotherapist's clinic a couple of days a week and uh I'm working hand in hand with the the lead physio there on a program um to do with kind of the mental and the physical approach to managing pain, so bad backs and you know whatever it might be in the body. Um with pain we can kind of make it worse by just getting over-emotional about it. So there's that phrase, isn't there, which is pain is inevitable and suffering is optional.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I know. I think um a lot of therapies are quite complementary, aren't they, to each other, but it's finding the things that fit for you because it's not a one thing fits all kind of box. So I suppose working with a physiotherapist is probably really beneficial for those patients.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I remember when when she first approached me a couple of years ago and said I'd like you to come and you know rent a room in in in the clinic and stuff, and she said, an awful lot of the patients that come to me, there's nothing wrong with them anymore. Physically, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them, but it's all in their head. And what happens, of course, is that once we've established a pain pathway in the body, it's sort of it's like somebody forgets to turn the lights out. And even though the tissues have healed and the problem's gone, then the stress and the emotion that they still feel about it actually makes it worse. And if you think about um a very simple case, if you're in a good mood or in a bad mood, how different is the reaction when you've stubbed your toe?
SPEAKER_00I know. We we've actually had this conversation before because we have done a podcast together, haven't we? Um, a little podcast there, and we've covered mindfulness and different subjects. And I remember actually us discussing quite a while back now about pain and you know, animals, how they deal with it. You know, an animal could have an operation, couldn't they? And be over it emotionally very quickly. They're moving around. Whereas as human beings, we hold on to things far longer. So, like you say, if you're scanned, the the problem might have actually healed, but the the mind problems around whatever the suffering has been can last far longer without the right care.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's true, and they they tend to go into it. We've got fight, flight, freeze, haven't we? And um animals particularly go into kind of like a freeze state when they've given up, and very often when they come round after an aesthetic, then they start to shake, don't they? And I've read a very good book called Waking the Tiger by um a guy called Peter Levine, and he talks about and this is about trauma and how we store trauma in the body. And what happens is when the animal shakes, it's kind of like a discharge of enemy uh energy rather, and um it's something that we don't really do, which is why we hang on to trauma, we don't have a way of discharging this energy, um, and that's a lot of you know what I I would do as well, and uh just try and get someone to let that energy out. And I know you would do that as well in the work that you do.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think movement is key, and actually, we're very lucky round here because there's a wonderful woman um who does a static dance in Marlowe um once a month on a Friday, which I'm going to this coming month, and that is you know, you're free moving, you're kind of you're able to shake. There are actually um Osho meditation. Have you heard of Osho meditation?
SPEAKER_01I haven't no.
SPEAKER_00So that is a shaking, almost shaking meditation. It's different forms of music, and what you were just saying there about the animals, it's really kind of important, you know, this this mind-body connection, isn't it? It's key. Like, um, we're in the the well-being and fitness slot this morning to talk about that. And yes, it's really important to look after your minds, but it's also good to look after your bodies and get moving in any way that you can. In fact, we'll talk about that after this next track. Jimmy Cliff, and I can see clearer now because the sun is out, which is beautiful because for a while it's been damp and dreary here. I don't know about up north, Alan. Has it been rainy or has the weather been beautiful?
SPEAKER_01Always damp and dreary up north. Kelly, you should know that.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure you must get a little bit of sunshine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we do. In fact, it was just as beautiful there when I left home this morning.
SPEAKER_00So we can see clearer now that the rain has gone. I enjoyed that track. That's lifted my spirits, and it's a pleasure to be here. We are on the health and well-being session this morning. On good morning, Marlowe. I'm joined today by Alan Muskett, who is also a mindfulness teacher, hypnotherapist, and we have worked together. So we are with you for the next hour and 25 minutes to talk about all things well-being, hopefully, bringing you some tips and also just some benefits. At 11 minutes past 11 this morning, I'm going to be introducing onto my show going forward the mindful moment. So we will do something together at that point, Alan. Share a little tip with whoever is listening. But let's talk with anyone who is out there listening today about mindfulness in general. Because we both teach mindfulness. I'm locally, and you are um up north. But we do a lot of work online and we have worked together, and there's a huge need for this now, even in the workplace. You know, corporate companies, we've both worked in bigger companies where you know those struggles and burnouts are, you know, they become present, don't they? They are not spoken about often, but I do notice that companies now are reaching out to people like you and I to help their staff, to bring awareness to how people are feeling. And that's what we're doing when we're talking about mindfulness. We are talking about being aware. So the small steps, in my opinion, are definitely the biggest things you can do. What's your take on that, Alan?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, everything's small steps, isn't it? Um, and you're right, awareness is the first one, and then I think probably the second one is acceptance, not of your life situation, but the moment you're in. Because if you're trying to get somewhere and you've got a map in front of you, the first step is to know where you're on where you are on the map. Um, so yeah, absolutely. And it is small steps, everything's small steps, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00That's a really good analogy, actually, thinking about the map, because we so often want to get to the destination, don't we? We are just caught up on the outcome and where we're going to go that we do not often just be where we are and just notice. And actually, that's what I really love about being in here. I think when we're in here doing this because we're live and we're on air and the songs are coming, I feel really present here because I have to be with those moments one by one, and actually, it's so much fun just to be able to be without worrying about what's for dinner or thinking about what's next. It's just, and I think the more time you practice, like with anything, you know, people that go running or attend exercise classes or play tennis, the more you do it, the more it just becomes part of your muscle memory, doesn't it? Like driving and things like that. So just those small, small steps can make a huge difference, and we know that. But for those people that are listening that don't know that, what would you say is something mindful that people could start doing those small steps?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I I think you hit the nail on the head when you said we're all always outcome-based, aren't we? It's always about, well, I'll be okay when the you know the dinner's ready, or then the washing up's done, or I've gone to bed and had a good night's sleep, or longer term, well, when I've paid the mortgage off, or whatever it is, it's it's you'll always be happy sometime in the future. Um and I think being aware that you're doing that and realizing that actually the clock's just ticking by and you're not enjoying what you're doing. And I'm not saying you have to enjoy every single thing. Um that you do. But actually, once you start to adopt that kind of attitude, you start to slow down a little bit and you do start to enjoy more than you thought you would. So my tip really is to be aware of your thoughts, be aware of where you're being taken, and being aware of things like, yeah, it'll all be okay when this is done and out the way, and think, well, actually, that's a chunk of my life that will have gone. So why don't I start enjoying it now? And and the way to do it, I think, is it's easier said than done because w w our minds are so overstimulated, we have a lot to achieve, we have a lot to get through in the day, but the the best way I can think of of doing it is just start to use your senses and just start to listen, look, feel, um, you know, and and just breathe, you know, and that's the classic, isn't it, with meditation is meditating on the breath, and that's something that's with you all the time and it's the present moment. And if you do it right, um, you know, as long as you don't have any underlying health conditions, you know, breath is is a very pleasant thing to do and it calms you down, it calms the nervous system down.
SPEAKER_00Yes, because it's noticing, isn't it? That's my favourite word, particularly if working with children. But actually, I was um in a company recently, and still the things that we use with children, I think are the things that we need as adults, because when you're overwhelmed and you've got these big thick books full of information or a big training manual on how to do something, people straight away are overwhelmed, aren't they? They're like, Oh my god, like what am I where do I begin? Whereas if you strip it back and you start to notice, and it's like we're breathing every day, aren't we? We're always breathing, we just don't notice it. We don't notice, you know, how the temperature of our hands, and like you said there about our senses, it is so important to be aware of our senses, and it's a great way to even deal with panic, isn't it? You know, the 54321. Um, in fact, shall we share that with anyone that's listening?
SPEAKER_01Why don't we?
SPEAKER_00Because I think that has been a lifesaver for many people. This is another tip we could share. Is like you said, get in touch with your senses, and it's five things you can see, four things that you can hear, three things that you can touch, two things you can smell, and one thing that you can taste. And it seems like a simple thing, doesn't it? How's that gonna get you out of panic? But it does, and why is that?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I just think it slows the mind down because the mind is whizzing round, you've got all that electrical circuitry in your brain, all those messages being passed back and forth. Uh, and I just think we allow ourselves to be taken over by it. But I think that when we use our senses, so as I understand it, you know, that we live in this kind of mental simulation, don't we? So, because everything's so complicated, and the brain can process so much, but if it if it did that all the time, it would just become overheated. So we just kind of have a mental model of the world, which is like an approximation of the world. And so like when you walk into a room, you've got a mental image of what a room looks like, okay, and what it's gonna be like, and um and then that just becomes kind of a dulled sense. But if you then use your senses when you do that, you update your model, and that sounds kind of trivial, I suppose. But if you then use that as a metaphor for thinking about your thoughts, okay, we start to create mental models of the way the world is. So, you know, we might have a particular thought about a particular person and how they are and how we interact with them, and it becomes not a real thing anymore. And and you need to kind of use your senses to get under that. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Well, it does to me, and I think I think just taking tips away from what you're saying there, because we we are habit-based, aren't we? We go into patterns, habits, default things, we fill in the blanks when we don't know the answers. All these things happen to us all the time. And I think is what mindfulness is doing and awareness and using these simple steps that we're sharing here, um, like getting in touch with our senses, noticing our breath, you know, feeling the temperature of the weather, you know, noticing how your clothes feel on your body if you're, you know, too hot, too cold. Sometimes we get so lost, we miss those simple things. So you're saying there, you know, we're kind of just remodeling, aren't we, the way that we're thinking and feeling to enjoy the moments in the day. And of course we're gonna have stressful times and hard times. We're not saying that it takes all that away, but you are equipped and resilient for how to handle that, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01You are, and you've said it probably much more succinctly than I have. Um, but yeah, it's I I I also just think it's like a circuit breaker because these mental circuits just go haywire. And if you if you had that an electrical circuit in the house, you know, all the you know, the lights would blow. Um, and what we're doing is we're stopping the lights from blowing just by you know turning the circuit off for a minute and then resetting it, or you know, restarting your computer or your phone when there's too many apps going. Simple as that, really.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just so that we can enjoy time because we think we don't have time, but sometimes we just need to take time and essentially remake time, otherwise we get to burnout, don't we? And I think this is a great time to play one of your next tracks, which I'm gonna let you say a little bit about, and then we can come back and talk about burnout. So I'm gonna play We Have All the Time in the World, because we think we have, but it can whiz by if we don't notice it. So, why did you choose this next song?
SPEAKER_01Uh well, partly for that reason, and it does have a kind of mindfulness theme as well, but this one always reminds me of uh of James Bond as well.
SPEAKER_00We are here with you today for the next hour and ten minutes on Good Morning Marlowe. I am Kelly Sayward, and I'm joined today by Alan Musket, who is also a mindfulness teacher. He expands that out into hypnotherapy and all other wonderful things, and we are bringing you tips and advice this morning and just a bit of awareness, really, on how important it is to not only look after your body but also your mind. And just before that song, we were talking a little bit about burnout, which is something that you cover quite a lot in the work you do, isn't it? And you've experienced it yourself. So, do you want to share with us a little bit about the burnout, how it made you feel, and the kind of steps I suppose that lead you down that dark hole?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. Um, so yeah, as I said earlier in the introduction, you know, I've suffered quite a lot of burnout. Um for one reason or another. Um, but you're right, you do go do go through various stages of burnout, and uh and it's some work I'm doing at the moment, actually, which is around um how do we get into it in the first place? Okay, so what what I think the problem is, and I by the way, I think this is a pandemic, and I think so many people are suffering from burnout or on the way to burnout, and probably probably more than we think. It is very difficult sometimes to distinguish between burnout and depression. Um, some very similar symptoms, particularly towards the end of the burnout journey. Um, so yeah, I I I think we get into burnout because we tend to take on more than we're capable of doing. Um, so you know, it might be that you go for a promotion at work or somebody's gone on leave and you have to take over somebody's job. Um, or just that you know you have to hold down more than one job, and maybe at the same time you're caring for a partner or a relative or something. So it's not just about work, and it is complicated because it's not just about you, it's also about the way companies treat you, um, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Um so there's a lot to it. So what I've worked on, you know, with one of um one of my clients is to show their people what the stages of burnout look like. I've called it the burnout ladder. So you can imagine that you're at the top of a ladder and you're kind of going down into a deep dark cellar. And very often you don't realize that you're doing that until you're at the bottom of it. Um, so you kind of start off with there's a kind of like an engage phase where you say, Okay, well, I'm gonna start working harder, whether that's consciously or unconsciously. Um, and then you start to kind of go through that and you kind of accelerate, and it's exciting at first because your your adrenaline's flowing and you might feel um a real buzz from doing it as well. Um, but then you start to neglect yourself, um, or you might neglect, you know, your friends or your partner or whatever it is, um, and then you start to just really start to feel it. Um and then you start to feel kind of resentful for it because and you haven't got the energy to keep it going, and then you start to disengage and pull away from from your social support, and then you kind of go into this kind of freeze phase again where you just feel so low, you just got no get up and go again. And the problem with it is that you don't realize it's happening to you until it's happening to you. It's like the boiling the frog analogy, right? You're in the pot of water and it's too late, you know, once the once the water's really started to heat up. So, what I want to show people is a way of saying, okay, am I experiencing this? So using the mindfulness to say, what's going on with me right now? Are these the symptoms that I'm experiencing? Okay, I'm at that stage of the ladder, therefore, these are the kind of things I could do. So basically, I've got 18 to 20 different tools, activities that people can do just to help them either step off the ladder or start to get up, you know, go up the ladder and out again.
SPEAKER_00And that's really important, isn't it? And as we will um also share, you know, how people can access that information, because I think the more we're aware, the more we're aware, right? So we we need to be aware all the time. Um, but it we're obviously going to slip on and off of that. But like you say with burnout, it's scary, isn't it? Because it can look so different. It look, you think you're doing yourself a favour, you think you're doing more. You're thinking, oh, I know I'll fit a bit more in, I'll do a bit more of that. And you're thinking, oh, this is a really successful thing to do because I'm getting through things all the while. This ladder you're talking about, which is a great visual as well, because we're different learners, aren't we? So to have a visual image of this ladder, I think for many people will be really beneficial. So um, yes, we will definitely share the resources to that towards the end of the show as well, so people can find out about that. But um when you experienced burnout yourself, did you were you not aware of those steps?
SPEAKER_01Not really, no. Um you kind of you kind of know you know something's happening to you, but you don't know exactly what, and you don't know how to get out of it. And I think I think that was that is the problem that most of us face. And the quick answer is to just sort of keep going and you'll get through it. But the problem is you don't go through, you go down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you think you're pleasing other people or doing things to help, don't you? And then you start resenting other people and resenting other things. And I think is what I found really key for me with mindfulness is that I would often blame everyone for everything because it's easier than thinking I've got fault. But when you're aware, your reactions and responses are so much healthier, aren't they, as well? So it just takes away a bit of pressure, I think, from you getting to that burnout phase.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it does, and and you're right, you do start to blame everybody else and the situation, and of course, a lot of it is the situation has happened to you, but there's also a part of responsibility which is within you, and um, you know, you just said it, you know, people pleasing and all that. One of the things I'm writing about is is be careful of your motives, you know. Right when you're right at the top of the ladder about to descend it, think about what it is that you really want and need and why you're doing this. Is it because you you're trying to impress somebody? Is it because you want a bit of extra cash? Are you keeping up with the Joneses, you know, whatever it is, and it's it's be careful of your motives. And if you go into it eyes wide open, then fair enough. It's not about quelling ambition, it's it's about just taking care of yourself.
SPEAKER_00Which is very important, isn't it? And I think having the awareness of this ladder is so very, very important because a lot of the people that I work with, I'm trying to get them essentially from from out of the hole up, and we have to do the work ourselves, don't we? So I think to have awareness of that, you're gonna have less people falling down those holes, essentially.
SPEAKER_01So well, wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?
SPEAKER_00It would be a wonderful thing, yes. For the next 45 minutes, I'm joined by Alan Muskett. He is also a mindfulness teacher and hypnotherapist. And in this health and fitness slot, we are bringing you well-being tips and things that we've both actually found really, really useful to help us with things like burnout and also how important it is to be mindful and what meditation actually means, which we're gonna touch on a bit deeper after the next track. But I think a lot of people just don't feel like meditating is an option because it might take up a lot of time. And on my show, it's um I'm here on the I can't even remember what day it is. So it's Tuesday. That's a great start. So I'm here on the second Tuesday. Is it even the second Tuesday?
SPEAKER_01Yes, second Tuesday of what?
SPEAKER_00Second Tuesday of the month. So um, oh no, we're the fourth Tuesday. I was the second Tuesday, so it would be good to know when I'm here. So on the fourth Tuesday of the month, I'll be doing this slot, and at 11 minutes past 11, each time I'm going to bring a mindful moment to you. And today, because um Alan and I have worked together before, we've done a podcast and shared meditation, we're going to do that mindful moment together and share something that's for both of us been really worthwhile, not only to ourselves with others, and is something that we continue to use in the work that we do. So by taking a simple pause in the day, it can be so important and bring you so much more clarity and space than you thought possible. So, the tip that we are going to share is actually a mini meditation. And when we think of meditation, we are just being aware of what we're doing. Nothing more, we're just noticing the experience. And this short exercise that we are going to share with you at 1111, and just um for any of those number fans out there who are into numerology, when you see the number 1111, you need to just trust, trust you're on the right track. And mindfulness is a bit bit like that, really. We're trusting. So we're trusting ourselves, what we feel and what we know. And when you see 1111 going forward, just remember to trust and go with the flow. And we're going to share this exercise with you now, and it's called stop. So we're going to guide you through that together. And first of all, if it's okay and you can close your eyes, do so. But otherwise, you can just be aware, which you'll need to do part way through thinking about it anyway. But the S stands for stop. So whatever you're doing, wherever you are right now, just stop for a moment.
SPEAKER_01And the T stands for take a breath. So just breathing in and then breathing out. And then take another breath.
SPEAKER_00Then the O stands for observe. So you're simply just observing the experience, the moment that you're in, just noticing how you feel, and just observing that moment before you move on.
SPEAKER_01Which is P, which stands for proceed. So if you have closed your eyes, you can open them again and uh you proceed with your day. So how quick was that?
SPEAKER_00I know, and it was, wasn't it? It was really quick. And actually, I don't know, we obviously can't get feedback. If anyone would like to email and tell us how that was, you can do so at studio at mileofm.co.uk. Um, but those quick changes, those quick moments where you just stop and change what the percent the way that you're doing, the way you're showing up and you're being present, it's amazing, isn't it? Do you use that exercise a lot, Alan?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I do, and I teach this quite a lot. And uh I used to use this myself when I had a proper job and I was at a desk and I would feel really, really overwhelmed with the amount of emails I had to do, or had deadline to hit, or I had somebody was pinging me and needed an answer. Um, I would just sort of sit back from my laptop, sit back from my desk, and just go through that simple stop process. And it only takes a minute. In fact, I think I've been timed at doing that at 37 seconds by my business partner. And uh, how quick, you know, less than a minute to just calm the mind. Because what happened to me was that I would then kind of return back to the real world, if you like, and then all the same problems were there, but I just had a different perspective on them. And I thought, before my mind had just frozen and overheated, and then after doing that, I could just think, well, it's it's easy, isn't it? I do that first, that can wait, you know, they can I'll call them back tomorrow, and all of a sudden you've just got a clearer mind and a fresh approach.
SPEAKER_00And why do you think, in your expert opinion, that people think they haven't got time?
SPEAKER_01They haven't got time.
SPEAKER_00Even 37 seconds, as you say, a lot of people would you know, if we said, Oh, every day, just take a moment to stop, you know, notice your breathing, observe it. Many, many people would think it's impossible to do that. Why do you think that is? Because we know we have the time, but why?
SPEAKER_01I think we get so caught up in the drama, and we just think that in situations like that, when things are so busy, even taking 30 seconds a minute out just seems crazy. You've just got to keep going, keep going, keep going. Um but we know that if you do take that time out, if it's a minute, you'll get back 10, 15, 20 minutes of productivity, right? It's it's um it's an investment in time. You'll get more time back if you've meditated, which is a problem, isn't it? Because a lot of people think that oh, it's self-indulgent for me to go and take ten minutes to meditate at home, you know, especially if you've got a family waiting for dinner and you know, all that kind of stuff. Um but it's not self-indulgence, it's self-care. And the person that goes back into the room after 10 minutes of of that, you know, is a much better person and nicer to be with and far more effective for themselves and everybody else.
SPEAKER_00100% because otherwise you reach that burnout. I did it last night myself, actually. I was feeling a bit stressed out, you know, blaming people for me being in a mood, you know, the whole kind of default thing that happens. And I but now I'm so more so much more self-aware, thanks to mindfulness. I mean, obviously, we're breathing it, we're teaching it. But even before that, I was able to think, okay, I need to get out my head, and just took a moment, you're right, the person that shows up back in the room half an hour later, they're a different person. The problems are still there, but it's that misconception. And in fact, after this next track, we'll have a chat about meditation, sort of on a bit of a deeper level, and why we know what people might think. So, do you want to introduce this? Is one of your songs that you chose. You want to introduce the next track?
SPEAKER_01Okay, I will. And this one is you too, and because it is like this today, it's a beautiful day.
SPEAKER_00So, we've been speaking this morning on Good Morning Marlowe about different benefits, things that can help you, our own experience, and really just what mindfulness and meditation is. Because I think there's a lot of misconception. We've touched on mindfulness. Um, also, just to quickly plug it while we're here, the mindful attitudes are really important part of mindfulness and can help you come back to the moment. But we haven't got all the time in the world to talk about that. So, we actually did a little podcast that you can listen to if you want an in-depth um description of the mindful attitudes called the Lose Your Mind podcast. So you can find that on all players. But we're going to talk about um meditation now and what that actually is. So, Alan, what would you say? Firstly, in your opinion, we're going to discuss that a bit deeper, but then we're going to talk about what people think it is when they come and see you, because quite often there is huge misconception about what meditation is. Would you agree?
SPEAKER_01Oh, very much so. And I think I would always like to spend a bit of time just um going over that before we get started almost, you know? So um I've just been running an eight-week course and I think it takes a few weeks for people to get it that actually the main purpose of mindful meditation is not to relax. It's like a pleasant byproduct. It makes you feel more relaxed, but it's the clearing of clearing of energy, if you like. It's the it's the getting the thoughts straight in your head that actually kind of gives you that relaxation, but that also kind of causes your mind to be clearer, so it kind of works in on itself. Do you know what I mean by that? And um yeah, I think for for me, mindful meditation is being mindfully aware of your thoughts. I mean, I can sit down for 10 minutes and almost feel like I haven't meditated at all because my mind's been all over the place, and I've been doing this for you know ten years now. But even I, you know, would would struggle some days and think this is a waste of time, but actually it's not a waste of time because as long as you're trying to be in the moment and accepting that your mind will wander off, and of course it's the noticing that it's wandered off, is the gold, isn't it? That's that's the treasure. So um yeah, it's it's it's it's tough for people to get their head round in a short space of time because they just think it's gonna be clear their mind and just make them feel blissful.
SPEAKER_00I know, and you can have a thought-filled meditation, can't you? That's that's all part of it. We have these average of I don't know, 70,000 thoughts a day, it's said to be somewhere around that. So, how are you not gonna have any in a period of time? I do what you do, I go and go to meditate, essentially, or go to notice, as I like to call it, in simpler terms, and I don't even know what's happened. The time's gone by, and also there's lots of different ways we can meditate, aren't there? I mean, running essentially could be a meditative exercise, dancing again, you know, you're still meditating, but also people operate in different days at different days, different ways. Um, and some people are visual, some people, you know, back to the senses. So you'll have visual, you know, some people like to feel into things, and we were having an interesting chat over the news, weren't we, about your stage analogy, which I actually think is worth sharing. So, would you like to share that with us?
SPEAKER_01Well, I will do if you really want me to. So, yeah, so I mean, this is where kind of mindfulness um crosses over a little bit with I think, you know, visualization, because if mindfulness is about just accepting what things are at the moment, the th the way you're breathing, um the sounds you can hear, you know, the you're feeling your feet on the floor and all that, um, then also you can kind of use a visualization to help you your mind sort it all out. And what I mean by that is so I was thinking of a stage. So if you think about a stage that's been set up for a play, it might be the wizard of Oz or something like that, and there's scenery on that stage, okay? And it might be, you know, the yellow brick road going off into the distance to the city of Oz. And it might seem kind of pleasant or it might be unpleasant, but when that play is over, that stage scenery gets taken away, and you're just left with the stage, you're just left with the nuts and bolts of it, the gantries, the lights, you know, you're just left with a bare stage, okay? So bear with me, because what I mean by this is it's back to that mental model again, and we've kind of set up the world in a particular way with scenery on the stage, and sometimes we just need to clear away that scenery to understand what's really there, and then we can put in scenery of our own. So it's a useful kind of visualization for somebody to think, you know, that's what my life is like, and if I don't like the scenery, you know, once I've got underneath that and understood it, then I can put my own scenery in place, and that's where I think mindfulness meets that kind of hypnotherapy type visualization and all that.
SPEAKER_00I, for one, really like that because um I think on my own journey, um, and I've shared, you know, on on here on Marlow FM before about me writing my book, and that journey essentially was coming back to me, to who I am, and realising that underneath I'm okay and like good enough as I am, essentially. And what you're saying there about the stages, it's like when you strip away all the judgments, people's voices, the things you see around you that you don't like, when you come back to what's inside and you make the space to actually see it and get in touch with that, that's okay. And you can kind of have a blank canvas, you can have that stage without all the scenery and know that you're enough as you are in that moment, and you can build that picture, you know, from a fresh perspective, from in the moment you're in, because you know, wherever you go, there you are, as John Kabatzin loves to say, and I think it's really true, like we can't escape ourselves. So, mindfulness and meditation is really bringing us back to loving the person that we are, because we're the ones that are with ourselves the whole way through, right? No one else. So, mindfulness and meditation for me is just fundamentally key, like you said, acceptance, you know, huge acceptance of not only our life situation, but of who we are. And when you said about the stage analogy, I really kind of felt I suppose relating it to even just myself as a person, and you're able to, when things feel a bit much, strip those external things away. So I'm sure that's very beneficial. Well, it certainly was to me. So thank you for sharing.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's okay, and I think you also touched on something else there, which is around, you know, I am enough. And of course, we we all give ourselves a hard time, it's a natural survival thing. I must make myself better, therefore, I'll criticise myself a lot. Um, but when you take all of it, you know, that might be part of the scenery that you're criticising yourself or hearing a lot of criticism from others. Um, but if you then kind of strip all that away, just say, you know what, I'm okay, you know. I wasn't born bad, you know, I wasn't born to do bad things. Um so you have the opportunity then to reshape what that scenery looks like, and and I think a lot of mindfulness, as you and I know, is around self-compassion and just balancing out the self-critic that we have in our head with just a little bit of kindness for ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's key, isn't it? But it can be really, really hard to do. And I think the more we stop to meditate, and when we say meditate, we mean just stop and notice and become aware. You're almost playing between your thoughts and your breathing, aren't you, for a moment? That's what I like to think of it, like, oh, notice your breath, oh notice my thoughts, well, notice my breath again when I remember, notice my thoughts, just kind of like playing around with it, just having a bit of fun with it, because life's too serious, isn't it? And the more you kind of strip it back and like that stage and take all the scenery away, you come back to yeah, these beautiful kind of moments, whether it's raining or we're lucky to have the sun out today. But I think you know, we've discussed before, but the sun always shines again, doesn't it? And um yeah, it's important to just take a breath, well, notice that breath essentially.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Again, you've hit the nail on the head with that. It is noticing um and noticing what's really there, not what you think is there.
SPEAKER_00Because our mind can play tricks on us, can't we? Can't it? And I think filling in the blanks is something that we all do. You know, you hear you hear something's happened straight away, your mind's already gone into a story or because we want resolutions and outcomes in life, don't we? We want to feel safe. So we go into fight or flight all too often because we're trying to feel safe. And of course, there's a place for it, you know. If you've got a truck coming at you and you step out in the road, you need to have an element of fear, but we don't need to live in that state all the time, but we so often slip into it, don't don't we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it becomes a point of refuge, doesn't it? As you said, that fight or flight is a place where you feel safe, and so you teach yourself that that's the place you should stay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think as well, um it's just it's so it's so important to realise that you know we we are safe much of the time, aren't we? But we kind of go on this loop and this default sort of behavioural pattern to try and figure it all out, and we can't have it figured out all the time.
SPEAKER_01No. Well, it it's a classic, you know, you mentioned that the these kind of it's like the human mind traps, they're filling in the gaps because you need to know what's going on, you need to know what's going on in your environment, but also we need to be right, don't we?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because then we're in a position of safety. But what that means is we tend to try and control what's going on and control outcomes, and that's not being mindful. Mindful is about a little bit about just living the moment that's actually there.
SPEAKER_00I know, and it's what I love about mindfulness and meditation for me is, and I don't know if you can relate to this, but I think the more aware we are of our surroundings, ourselves, we strengthen, you know, like you work a lot with resilience, don't you? And coaching and stuff like that. And I work a lot with confidence building. I'm really passionate about it because I'd had zero confidence at all. Um, and I think that we strengthen these things inside of us, don't we, by being mindful and meditating. And then when the confidence and the resilience comes, you're able to share. And we feel safe when we hear someone else has done the same thing that you're not on your own. And we're both writers, aren't we? Both love writing. I've written my book, which I love to share on this radio show in case you want to buy it, it's out now. Um, desperate to be loved. Um, and you are also writing, aren't you? And that burnout ladder we were discussing, you know, writing the benefits of that. But the more we share, the more other people feel safe, and that fear slips away, but it stems from that noticing, because then you the confidence comes, and it's just like this wonderful kind of snowball effect of why would we not do this rather than live the other way when you realize it, do you think?
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, and and you mentioned core strength, and and I I love the if you do quite a lot of mindfulness and it I think it's a John Kabat Zinn thing who's a mindful guru. Um he brought mindfulness really to the the Western world, didn't he, back in the 70s, uh ostensibly. But um he talks about um a meditation uh the lake meditation and the mountain meditation, and they're kind of visualizations, and it's about having a core strength within you. And you know, the surface of a lake can get stirred up with the weather and rain and wind, but underneath that there's a solid body of water, and that solid body of water it I think is a metaphor for you know what's inside you, and if and if you if you do this mindfulness, you can build that core strength within you.
SPEAKER_00Yes, because we all have that higher power inside, don't we? And on that note, I'm gonna play the next track. You cover um hypnotherapy, which is something that I actually don't teach myself and gave us really interesting insight on that. But tell us a tiny bit more, Alan, about the work that you cover. So I know you're obviously a mindfulness teacher, hypnotherapist, dealing with resilience, and you know, burnout is key for you, but you work sort of all over, don't you?
SPEAKER_01I do. Um, so excuse me, a lot of it was um online um through COVID because that was when I was really kicking my business off. Um, so that was great, wasn't it? Launching a business into COVID. Um, but yeah, so we've talked about the mindfulness meditation. So what I do is I hold weekly drop-in classes, I um run meditation retreats, um, and I do kind of one-to-one with people as well. So, because I think an awful lot of issues can be resolved. Um, a lot of stress, anxiety issues can be resolved by just simple one-to-one meditation um and health anxiety and and lots of stuff like that. So I do the hypnotherapy out of the clinic, um, the physiotherapist clinic and the health and well-being center. And um that's pretty much me from a kind of private one-to-one basis and group sessions. But the other side of me is I co-own a business called We Are Being with an old colleague of mine from many, many years ago, and we found that we both had a very similar passion. I talked about, I just wanted to help people earlier on because, especially after seeing what I'd been through, um, I realized that I was looking around me and I thought, I'm just one of hundreds here, and everybody's suffering the same way. Um, so he found the same thing. We set up a company and we go into businesses and we do a day's workshop um training resilience, so like a kind of a cross-section of tools, um, across kind of positive psychology, use mindfulness, of course, because that's my passion, um, a bit of cognitive behavioural kind of stuff and relationships and and all that kind of thing, and and that's quite fun. And um part of that, I guess, is the burnout because that's tends to be something that happens in the workplace. So, so yeah, I'm I'm quite busy.
SPEAKER_00You are, and remind us because I don't think you said there the name of your individual business for anybody that's listening.
SPEAKER_01I did not say it, you're right. So, my business is called Write Mindfulness. So, you see what I did there. I see what you did there. It's all one word. So, write and then mindfulness, which only has one L, and I've realized that a lot of people don't know that. So, write mindfulness.co.uk is where you would find me specifically, or you can find me on LinkedIn um under my name, obviously, and you'll you'll track me down to the company we are being.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you for sharing. It's been a pleasure for you to be here this morning. I know we've only got 20 minutes left. It's flown by actually this morning, hasn't it? And uh it's good to know, I think, that um obviously we do really similar work, but there are so many people out there that need um access to stuff like this. And we're talking about health and well-being, which is what this show is about on a Tuesday, um, health, fitness, and well-being, it's so, so important to be able to have resources and know where to go. When you're brave enough to ask for help or you're trying to care for your company or individual, you can reach out to people like us and know that there is a way through, and you know, the time will come when it needs to, and that you can reach out for help. So if this sounds like you, do reach out and do um let us know if you would like us to help with anything at all. But um, yeah, we're gonna play a track in a minute, and then when we come back, we are going to talk a little bit about spring because for me, spring is often like the new year. I don't know about you, but um I I quite like cosying in at winter. I like not moving and not having to rush out and feel like I've got to have really long days. So I think the new year for me begins in spring, and today it feels particularly spring-like. So we're gonna talk a little bit about that soon. And the lovely Abby has just walked in. She's gonna be here for the eclectic light show from 12 o'clock, bringing you wonderful music. Good morning, Abby.
SPEAKER_02Good morning.
SPEAKER_00How are you today? I'm very well, thanks.
SPEAKER_02I'm enjoying the sunshine and slightly warmer weather. Nice, isn't it? It is. I hope it lasts the weekend. Everybody could do the nice break, nice, nice weather.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and we are going to talk a little bit about spring, actually. I was just saying that for me, spring is like the new year, you know, when things are growing, and from a mindful, mindful perspective, spring is it's quite a nice analogy, isn't it? When you think about the sort of seeds you've planted and you've rested over winter, you've given yourself time to rest, you're able to show up better as a person, I think, in spring. What's your view, Alan?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I think the only thing I would say is that a lot of people just wait for spring, don't they? And they go through winter saying, I hate winter. And I just think that's 25% of your life you've just written off. So what I quite like is is the change from season to season and just going through it and being with whichever one that you're in. But I do like spring, it is my favourite, I have to say.
SPEAKER_02I kind of prepared for spring this year. In uh January, I had rooms painted, wardrobes put in, and that's the sort of thing you do with a spring clean. But I kind of started it really early, so I feel like I'm hitting the ground running with this season, you know.
SPEAKER_01You're ready.
SPEAKER_02Ready, yeah. I thought that those jobs wouldn't be finished until probably August, but they're all ready by the end of March. So yeah, I feel a bit smug about that. Head of the spring clean. You're ready to grow, essentially, Abby, aren't you? I think so, yeah. I think I've uh planted some good seeds.
SPEAKER_00That's good. And I think the more we rest, the more aware we are of these things, you know, and like what the different seasons in our bodies and our breath, the more equipped we are. So, like you're ready to go, aren't you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I must say I did do the HEG thing this winter. I did rest quite well. I didn't have illnesses, which really helped. So I was strong this winter. The last few I hadn't been strong at all. So I think that that really helped a lot of self-care and as much rest as I could get in rather than going out to parties here, there, and everywhere. I really took it easy. And uh yeah, I'm looking forward to spring summer to get going again. It seemed a sensible thing to do, probably try it this year. It's the way forward.
SPEAKER_00And I wonder if that's because as people we are becoming more aware, like mindfulness and meditation, which we've been talking about this morning, is actually much more in the forefront of people's minds than it would have been 10 years ago. So people don't feel guilty for resting now at winter, do they? They don't feel guilty for slowing down. Whereas 10, 15, 20 years ago, that drive to push, push, push was just what you had to do to, you know, show up and look like you were doing enough.
SPEAKER_02I think people are just pushed so far now. You know, it's just another level of speed that in the end you just literally for your own health have to engage with mindfulness now and make space for yourself because it's it's it's not sort of built into the average week, is it? No, we're the speed of people's lives.
SPEAKER_00We were speaking about burnout, um, which you're really passionate about, aren't you, Alan? Alia, for that exact reason.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you're right, and you said it making space for yourself in a in a busy day. Because we talked a little bit about that and the fact that people um don't seem to want to give themselves space and they feel like they have to be constantly striving and achieving, and you do need some downtime.
SPEAKER_00It's so important. So we're now ready for the beautiful weather that we have out there. We're actually um down to the last 10 minutes and we're gonna play a track into the news. But Alan, what would your top tips, mindfulness meditation-wise, be for people that have been listening to us this morning? We've covered burnout, we spoke about hypnotherapy, you know, the misconceptions around that, and meditation. What do you think are some simple, these small steps we're talking about to spring forward? What can people do?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think the thing to do is start small and don't make it like a big thing. So it's like when you do an exercise program, all of a sudden you have to feel like you have to run five, ten miles a week. And meditation, if you like, becomes something like that. So don't have any expectation that you need to do that. Just start small one, two minutes a day. You can get YouTube videos with meditations on. You there are apps, galore, there are plenty of resources out there, but just start small, have fun with it. It's not supposed to be a a grim task, you know, it's supposed to be enjoyed and it can be really fun and really part of your life.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I think it's important as well, isn't it, is to be a bit patient with yourself when we're talking about these things because health and well-being is so important, but you're not gonna be able to turn up somewhere and necessarily show up like the person next to you. And these mindful activities can be anything. We were talking just now, you know, Abby's gonna ease mindfully into her show and just be present with that music. And I think that it's important that we just tap into the things that resonate with us, I would say. Go on.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna yeah, I was gonna say I agree. Um it has to be it has to work for you and do what works for you. And as you said, it doesn't have to be sitting down and mindfully meditating, it could be going running, it could be playing a musical instrument, anything.
SPEAKER_00Anything at all. So start small, notice those pauses and bring that into your day. Abby, do you have a favourite mindful thing you can think of? What's something that you notice quite easily? Something that I notice of respect. What about myself? Well, just anything. So when we're talking about mindfulness, we were discussing earlier that a lot of the time all we're doing is becoming aware or noticing that thing.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, I notice I spend too much time on my phone and with technology. Uh so I do make a concerted effort to do things which I know does not involve the phone. It's a terrible distraction from living and from from peace. Uh, you know, I mean, as if the monkey mind isn't bad enough, you've now got this device which is, you know, yeah. I know. That's a really good point though. And uh yeah, that keeps the mind extremely busy. And is it Alan? No.
SPEAKER_01It is.
SPEAKER_02It is. As Alan was saying, you know, it's important to uh yeah find a bit of uh space for yourself because there's just so much going on. It's it's you know, it's just busy all the time because there's always somebody messaging, something dinking. So for me, I read a book which I have found more difficult to engage with since I have been a phone addict, which I believe everybody is now. Most people are. Um, but I do, I I get into reading books and I go to the gym. I like going to the gym, and anywhere I can leave my phone alone, I will, you know. So that's what where I'm quite mindful to just put the phone down and make sure I have space and don't get too distracted. Go walking as well. Yeah, and uh yeah, I've I I make a concerted effort to take time out, primarily from technology, because I think that that is the true enemy of mindfulness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I agree, I 100% agree, and I think the simple fact that you notice that you're addicted to it, because we all are, you're right, you're halfway out. I remember my own daughter saying to me I had a bit of a panic attack last year, like a bit of a blip, and she reminded me the simple fact I'd noticed that I was panicking, I was halfway out, and it's the same with technology. The fact that you notice you spend a lot of time.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's yeah, yeah, it's just a black hole, just sort of sucks. Sucks you right in, doesn't it? You know. Um, but equally, I have a love, I absolutely love it at the same time. I think there's you know, the way you can communicate with people uh and access information. I absolutely love it. However, you know, you do need to know where to draw the line. I love chocolate cake, I love drinking wine. There are lots of things that I love, but anything in excess is not good for you, and yeah, and we all need to be mindful of that, don't we?
SPEAKER_00Yes, and that's what we're focusing on health and well-being this morning. Oh, good morning, Marlowe. So, everything in moderation is the key. And as we come towards 12 o'clock, we're gonna play us out with the Boys of Summer, um, which is one of your choices, Alan and Abby will lead in after the news. But is there anything else you would like to say or share? I would like to say it's been a pleasure having you all the way down from Worcestershire to share the morning with me. And um, I've really enjoyed being present in the moment and discussing all things mindful. But um, yeah, any lasting words?
SPEAKER_01Not really, just to say thanks very much for having me on. This has been a real uh pleasure for me. First time I've ever been on radio. So I've had loads of fun. So thanks very much for having me here and uh talking to your listeners.