In this episode, I’m joined by neuroscience health coach, Alyssa Chang. With the Health and Fitness industry currently saturated with quick fix and cookie cutter approaches, she aims to challenge these norms as a Neuroscience Health Coach.
Neuroscience Health Coaching involves deeply understanding the inner workings of the nervous system and its role in how it governs how we think, feel, move, behave and live. This scientific and compassionate approach focuses on training the brain to give options back to the body, so healing feels both sustainable and possible again.
Ultimately, she trusts you as the expert and believes we house the tools within our own brain and body to heal ourselves. We cover:
Follow Alyssa on Instagram @coachalyssachang
Work with Alyssa here.
Books mentioned:
Feedback? Questions? Comments? Head on over to Instagram and let me know in my DMs!
FREE TRAINING
COURSES
Follow me on Tiktok: @jessiemgolden
Subscribe to my Youtube channel
In this episode, I’m joined by neuroscience health coach, Alyssa Chang. With the Health and Fitness industry currently saturated with quick fix and cookie cutter approaches, she aims to challenge these norms as a Neuroscience Health Coach.
Neuroscience Health Coaching involves deeply understanding the inner workings of the nervous system and its role in how it governs how we think, feel, move, behave and live. This scientific and compassionate approach focuses on training the brain to give options back to the body, so healing feels both sustainable and possible again.
Ultimately, she trusts you as the expert and believes we house the tools within our own brain and body to heal ourselves. We cover:
Follow Alyssa on Instagram @coachalyssachang
Work with Alyssa here.
Books mentioned:
Feedback? Questions? Comments? Head on over to Instagram and let me know in my DMs!
FREE TRAINING
COURSES
Follow me on Tiktok: @jessiemgolden
Subscribe to my Youtube channel
[00:00:00]
Jessie: All right, Alyssa, welcome to the show. This is the second time having you on the podcast and you've been a guest inside of Food Freedom Evolution a couple
Alyssa: Mm hmm. Always so great to be in connection with you.
Jessie: Yes. And I feel like the conversation when it comes to the nervous system is something that has ramped up so much in the last couple of years. So we spoke initially on the podcast, what was it like two, three years ago?
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: since then, I feel like the nervous system is all over the place. Do you find that to be the same?
Alyssa: Yes. Um, it's definitely like the diet trends that move through their own phases and get kind of a very interesting popularization of it and glorification of it. Um, but I think what I would love to definitely be in conversation with you today is like getting into some of the nuances of what that actually means and looks like and feels like for people.
Jessie: Yes. I feel like nuance and context with so many things with health and fitness, [00:01:00] you, if we're just taking things at the black and white surface level, then it can actually make things worse
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: So I'm sure it's the same for the nervous system. So on that note, what are the most common symptoms that you've been seeing of nervous system dysregulation when it comes to your clients?
Alyssa: I would say a lot of it is definitely anxiousness, hyper vigilance, um, constantly worrying about the other shoe dropping, things not working out, lack of presence, and then pain, and pain is a very unique expression in each of our bodies, so it could be anxiety, it could be a physical ailment like a lower back pain, it could also look like headaches, so it's just this, um, as we know, like the term survival mode, it's just this.
operation of living with an immense amount of threat, a lack of safety and worrying about if there's a tiger on the corner and do I need to fight, you know, fight off this tiger, flee from it. Am I going to like find, you know, [00:02:00] like, so going through our own survival strategies.
Jessie: And it seems like from what I've heard for years and years that women suffer more from anxiety or struggle with it more than men. Is there a particular reason for this that you've concluded or that you can hypothesize when it comes to the nervous system?
Alyssa: Um, that's a great question. Um, I would say that my hypotheses would be the fact that culturally it's a little bit more acceptable for women to talk about their feelings, to be more in connection with themselves. Whereas I think men, it is this like, I mean, I definitely, I don't know. Was experienced the no pain, no gain mentality, but I think with men, there's like this masculine culture of like, you know, buckle up and push through and hustle.
And so I, I feel that there is a disconnection that they have from their body that they, maybe they do have anxiousness, but it's masked by a lot of like. That masculine type of persona so to say whereas women it's like we're more in touch We're able to communicate [00:03:00] with our feelings We put language to how we're feeling which is a beautiful quality that we have because I think it allows us a much clearer pathway Of how to then address it and work with it
Jessie: Okay, so are there differences in terms of the sensitivity of a man's nervous system versus a woman's because of our, I mean, people, I don't mean to be offensive by saying this, but because biologically we're designed to bear children. So that sensitivity of, do we need to be protecting ourselves, our bodies and a potential baby?
Alyssa: Mmm,
Jessie: hypothesis thrown around. Is that something that you've considered? Um,
Alyssa: you look at Two parents, male and female, that have a child, the mom's attunement to, like, the very subtleties of, like, the baby, like, breathing differently, or rolling in the crib, like, there's just this hyper awareness, and I think after laboring and delivery, There is a shift in the nervous system where [00:04:00] they become much more aware.
So HSP, highly sensitive person, our personality is a very also common, I would say thing that we're noticing online. Um, I feel like post pregnancy, that is something that women through evolution through just being Being the caregiver end up actually sitting more in and having a hyper attunement to like subtleties and that makes them such a great caretaker for their child.
So I do agree with you in that. I think because we go through a lot of different hormonal shifts, it allows us to be very intuitive as well to really tap into our gut feelings and like sit with our body and those sensations and allow that to guide us as well.
Jessie: and I know we touched on this during our last episode, but I see a correlation with things like intermittent fasting and dieting approaches that might be better suited to men versus women. Or do you see differences of those who have a certain nervous system regulation state and they attempt something with diet, [00:05:00] with exercise and their system just is not in a place to handle it?
Alyssa: Mm. Yeah, there's a statistic where, you know, men reset and quotations hormonally every 24 hours. So, um, they are inevitably going to be way more resilient. The male clients I've worked with that have done intermittent fasting. They do fine. They literally wake up. They can train really hard. Their first meal maybe isn't till like two o'clock.
You put a woman on that and they go through, um, kind of this like honeymoon phase of dieting where they're like, well, I'm mentally focused. I feel clear. I'm losing weight. I have less inflammation until roughly about 10 to 14 days. And they're like not sleeping while they have pain, their weight stops or they start gaining weight.
And that's kind of like this honeymoon phase of where. Because you're reducing calories, maybe carbohydrates, your brain then begins to put you into a stress response where it's producing more adrenaline. And so the focus and the attunement and the energy is actually more of an adrenaline response than the diet or fasting protocol [00:06:00] actually working.
So for women, it's harder for us to, um, reset in quotations and have like that. As I mentioned, like men just have like a different level of resiliency. It takes us just a little bit longer because we move through seasons and that's okay. We just have to learn how to like, listen to what those season, what season we're in and what is our capacity to actually pursue weight loss to be in the gym, lifting heavy, or do we need time spent outside and reading a book
Jessie: Um, I'd love that. I think it's such an important conversation with all the discussion of masculine versus feminine. And I know some people don't resonate with those terms, yin yang, whatever, but we grew up in a masculine society. We're still in a masculine society designed for men and women have been trying to be like men.
At least that was my story. And I don't jive with the way things are set up for men. so I've had to really peel back the layers of, there's insecurity there for me because I was taught to [00:07:00] hide away everything that made me biologically a woman and to just jump in with how the guys do it and it doesn't work for me.
Alyssa: and especially as entrepreneurs, I think that's a really hard thing to, balance and get in touch with ourself of like, am I in a season to push a program to onboard more clients or do I need to scale back and truly listen to like what is within my capacity right now? And so I totally agree with you when it comes to how much we need.
How much we're operating in a societal culture where it's really hard to take off days and to not, you know, push something for our business and to just really honor where we're at. And it takes a really brave and courageous person to be like, you know what, I'm not going to make a push right now. I'm going to actually sit back and just do my maintenance for my, my, uh, entrepreneurship and my work.
Jessie: Yes, gosh, that has spoken to me so deeply as an entrepreneur. And I have a lot of women in my audience who are more type A, go getters. [00:08:00] So I would assume you have some element or had some element of that within you when it comes to the intense exercise and the hit type of exercise and where women feel like it's not effective or it's not worth it unless I feel like I'm dead at the end of a workout or I'm in deep
Alyssa: Hmm.
Jessie: with someone who thinks that?
Alyssa: A couple of questions come to mind. Um, I think I get curious around what is it that makes them feel they have to feel that way at the end of the workout? And do they actually notice themselves? Like if they're really honest with themselves, do they actually notice that they're making progress? Um, what is maybe their attachment to needing to suffer through a workout in order to feel quote unquote successful or a job well done.
And then to provide a little bit of education context around, you know, less is can be [00:09:00] more. And it's about efficiency. It's about meeting yourself where you're at. That actually would create a much more sustainable path towards not running into burnout, not damaging your metabolism or moving into starvation mode.
It's about really, again, kind of being honest with ourselves of what. Do I actually feel like with these hard workouts and is there a potential other option to work with my body so that I can achieve my results and not actually suffer again? I think the suffering part is very relatable first off, but can you actually get to your goal by enjoying the process?
Because that's going to be way more sustainable than something that. You're always chasing pain because the brain will get better at ignoring the pain until your threshold is I'm running six to seven miles every single day and Then it becomes eight to nine and then you're just running off of fumes and you're getting more and more depleted
Jessie: Mmm. Okay, that pain conversation is really interesting. Because when you said your brain gets used to pain, my whole [00:10:00] concept of pain was blown a couple years ago when I had my own chronic health issues that
Alyssa: Mm hmm
Jessie: And then how, when I understood, and from what I understand, the way you teach about pain, that's not even in medical journals yet in a lot of schools.
It's something that they are learning how to look at pain very differently. Is that what you've noticed?
Alyssa: Yeah, I started studying through this educational system called Z health in 2012 and that was Z Health has been around before that and it was a very big paradigm shift for me to conceptualize of like, oh, this is, I shouldn't be chasing pain or I shouldn't have to be in pain to get out of pain because if I continue to be in pain, we just actually push our threshold.
More and more and more until a very common symptom, like you mentioned, is literally chronic illnesses, and that could look like digestively. That could look like prolonged anxiety, depression, [00:11:00] but when we are in such a habit of chasing pain, that just continues to evolve. Like you will, we won't reach rock bottom until it's absolutely at a place where again, your body absolutely just stops working for you.
Okay.
Jessie: Oh, God, that's so soul crushing. And with, just because I've been there, but
Alyssa: Yeah, same.
Jessie: way out. And I think that's important for people to hear. So typically if someone is saying, okay, I'm struggling with chronic pain or chronic health issues, what is often the first step that you would tell them to start with?
Alyssa: Oh, well, it's often going to look everything opposite of what you're currently doing, which in and of itself is very interesting. to think that I'm going to have to rest more than workout, especially if working out has been very cathartic. It's a form of therapy. Again, when we were attached to that level of embodiment, sometimes the only way we can feel in our body is through [00:12:00] pain.
And so I've worked with a lot of clients where They either eat past fullness because that's their only sense of connection to self and or they have to do HIIT training in order to feel their body. So it then starts to take on a different definition of what if we're craving, you know, body connection as the platform to then get to our goals.
Can we form connection to your body in much more gentle restorative ways? And you and I have definitely very similar recovery journeys of like. Literally, we just had to walk. We had to, like, be outside. We had to change our overstimulating environments and land in literally a different place, physical place, that was supporting our rest and recovery needs.
And a lot of my clients maybe live in very busy, hustly, bustly, grind culture types of states that really It's very challenging to prioritize rest, to prioritize days off. And so it's this whole, again, that paradigm, you have to just entertain the idea of like shifting [00:13:00] that. And that could look like eating more.
That may look like resting more, adjusting your intensity. And then ultimately really you and I also talk about how much your emotional state impacts your goals. Are you happy? Are you in alignment with what matters to you? Are you spending time in community with safe and supportive people?
Jessie: That part is so, so important when we're talking about health and wellness. It's just community,
Alyssa: Mm
Jessie: but that slow paced life is so confronting for so many people and it was for me and I still have those moments of, Oh my gosh, I'm resting too much. And that means the other shoe is going to drop. Something bad's going to happen if I rest too much.
I
Alyssa: Yeah
Jessie: be pushing.
Alyssa: Mm
Jessie: So when, with your journey in your own metabolism, post your physique competition, you had an uphill battle. With your health struggles with you gained quite a bit of weight pretty quickly, correct?
Alyssa: hmm
Jessie: What's your [00:14:00] message to women who are tempted to really push their bodies with dieting and exercise?
Whether it's from a negative headspace or they're just really into competition and they think doing a physique competition is like, sounds like so much fun. What would your message be to them?
Alyssa: Well, first off, I think just normalizing that like that is very much so part of my story of like chasing. Essentially what I was chasing in the choice to compete was acceptance and belonging. And I, while I was in that process, there's no way I could actually sit with that emotion. I think I was distracting away from it through dieting through training really hard.
But when I got on stage and I was handed my trophy, I felt super empty. And that was a very confrontational and very pivotal Life experience to then recognize that happiness didn't live in my body. Happiness wasn't in an accolade. Happiness doesn't wasn't external because I wasn't practicing joy, abundance, gratitude.
While in this training program, [00:15:00] the end result made absolute sense where I could win and I could still feel very empty and not belong. So a lot of my work and healing my metabolism was really confronting the ways I attached my physique and my body, my performance to. Value love and belonging and that's like so much work of self reflection.
That's a lot of therapy. That's a lot of somatic work of getting a lot of my past traumas like out of my body, my current limitations and my belief system around. I had to look a certain way in order to receive love. Like that's some very nuanced layered work. Um, but through that I could arrive at a place where there is acceptance of my body for what she can do, what she does for me.
And really working with her versus trying to manipulate her versus trying to force her and truly Developing that partnership of like longevity and let's do this together. We have one life and let's have a great time and have fun [00:16:00] Yeah,
Jessie: in the middle of it. you had gained that weight, did you challenge yourself to show up fully in a body that you felt uncomfortable in? I'm putting words in your mouth. I don't know if you felt that way, but did you challenge yourself to show up in the ways that you were terrified to previously?
Alyssa: I mean I was working at a pretty popular gym at that time where I was a trainer and so As a trainer in that kind of like visible space, they saw me go from, you know, an athletic body to a very lean competition body than in a short time frame, completely rebound. So my whole journey was observed by all the members, by other trainers, by just people that, you know, we're in that space and I had a deep insecurity around like everyone is judging me.
I'm a failure. You know, all of those narratives. And so I didn't necessarily. I didn't have a choice to hide because that was my work of like meeting my clients and working with [00:17:00] them. And so I was constantly confronted with, you know, continuing to show up as a coach and a body that like did not feel like mine.
And I remember one of my best friends asked me a very confrontational but helpful question of how has your business been since you've rebounded, right? Six months, 65 pounds up. And I was like, it's going really great. Actually, I have more clients. I'm at capacity. And he was like, how are your friendships?
I'm like, great. I have wonderful community, you know, and then he just went down this list and I was confronted with the reality that this was all some stuff I was taking on that because I was in a bigger body that for me, I made the assumptions that, well, I wasn't a trustworthy coach. I was like poor at my job.
I wasn't a great, you know, uh, like. Friend, like all of these pieces when the reality was, is that it was such a perception of mine. Um, I was navigating health stuff, so I definitely wanted to, you know, heal those pieces. But it was a, the reality was my [00:18:00] life continued to move forward. And I was missing out on a lot of beautiful moments because I was so stuck in the belief that like, I was not worthy of receiving that type of abundance because of my body.
Jessie: Wow, what an incredible friend you had.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Jessie: speak to you so candidly.
Alyssa: Yes, and it's a lot to receive right because you can imagine when you're like belief system is I'm different people are gonna love me less and have someone just be so point blank with you and then To sit back and be like my life is actually better and it has nothing to do with how I look
Jessie: Oh, I love that. I
Alyssa: I
Jessie: when they're, I think it's hard to realize when you're in it, how small life gets when you're obsessed with food and your body.
Alyssa: Mean I I probably canceled so many plans because I didn't know what to wear. And I was that girl that like looked in the closet, I have so much clothes, but then it's just like, you're going through all the outfits, right? And you're, you look at your bed and you've gone through [00:19:00] like half your closet and you're still, you're just so triggered, you know, you're just in that space of like, well, I have nothing to wear.
I'm just not going to go. I don't feel good at any of this. And it's just, yeah, it's kind of the reality of how much of this work is also so in our consciousness. What beliefs do we hold on to about our bodies? Mm hmm. Mm
Jessie: When you were making changes to improve your health, I know you mentioned starvation mode and metabolic damage. I assume you're meaning your metabolism adapted, so everything down regulated to a point where you felt very unwell.
Alyssa: hmm.
Jessie: of the behaviors, that you started to shift initially with diet and exercise to start to bring yourself out of that hole?
Mmm,
Alyssa: do everything that my competition plan was because if that helped me lose weight to be on stage, I was like, it, your brain's like, of course, it has to make sense for you to then lose weight again. But every time I Like, every time I [00:20:00] did cardio, every time I tried to diet, I always had the reverse protective responses, more cravings, more pain, more anxiety, more weight.
And so I just start to curate these micro experiments. And one of them was if I decided to do cardio, what happened, what would happen to my body? And I wanted to assess a couple of things, my anxiety, my weight, and then my cravings. So I literally had my own Excel spreadsheet and it was like, you're going to do 20 minutes on the StairMaster.
And I would log the date, log my check off the box, I did my cardio and I would reassess the next day. And it was with consistent tracking that I noticed every time I did cardio that was above Probably 20 minutes at that point because I was so compromised on a machine, not necessarily outside. My weight would always jump up, jump up at least five pounds.
And then by two o'clock I would have like a binge episode where I was constantly like just fullness cue was not there. It was self soothing a lot with calories and I was way more anxious. [00:21:00] And so I just noticed that there was this correlative pattern and it would take me probably about five days to then come back to baseline of my weight back to baseline of regulating my appetite back to baseline of my anxiety.
So for 20 minutes of cardio, I was dysregulated in quotations for five days. And in those five days that I was not present right in those five days, I was then really preoccupied with body image, thoughts, negative self talk that would only obviously lead to more exhaustion. So I repeated obviously some cycles of like being stubborn and frustrated until I identified.
Actually, I think it's just the cardio. Let's remove that. Let's replace it. And so I kind of got creative with replacing it with different types of cardio machines just because I was at a gym all the time, but it wasn't until I was like, I just don't think cardio is. It's working for me that I started to just literally walk.
I would walk and then I was like, wow, I feel more relaxed. And then I would eat lunch and I'd be like, I'm satisfied. And I was like, that's interesting. You've never felt satisfaction like this for a really long time. [00:22:00] So was it the walking, you know, and you just get curious and you start to tinker with all these different like dials that you can play with when it comes to understanding your body.
So resting was super important, but also understanding what rest looked like because if I napped or was physically still, that could also increase my anxiety. So it was more of a proactive restoration that I stepped into that helped me, which was walking, being outside, gentle mobility. I do a lot of like vision therapy.
I had a lot of breath training to just really hone in on all these tools we have within our own body to create that sense of calm and ease.
Jessie: wow. Okay, so many different ways to go from there. So, you were talking about the different ways to move to reduce the likelihood of feeling anxiety for a woman listening to this, if she resonates with that, how would she know the appropriate way to respond based on the state of her nervous system?
Alyssa: Can you ask that again?
Jessie: Yeah, so like if she's feeling [00:23:00] more low, maybe more, um, depressive or would that be more of a fawn response? How might one respond differently to the different dysregulation, I don't know if that's the proper term, but those different states, how can they potentially get their bodies to regulate?
Alyssa: Yeah, great question. I think that was one thing that I learned in my own self of like, Oh, like meditation doesn't work when I am in like a fight response. So I'm feeling like really defensive, maybe a little bit more activated with like anger or from my flight response where I'm like, busy body, like I'm multitasking, I'm like cleaning the floor while I'm like also kind of doing the dishes while I'm also like listening to something on my phone, like physically, like creating stillness in your body is counterintuitive.
It can actually escalate someone's own unease and dysregulation. So they might notice their heart rate goes up more, they get more pain, they feel more frantic and more scattered. [00:24:00] So with those two
responses, usually movement is actually really supportive. So I have clients go on what we call rage walks where they turn on some loud music and they just literally are walking with a an intention of moving a lot of that energy forward and a lot of the energy with synced with like audio input.
So that can be super helpful with the flight response. It's also helpful to do movements. So sometimes that's like a dynamic stretch flow. Sometimes that is literally multitasking and just accepting that like, this is how I'm coping right now. When the flight responders can identify, um, that movement is supportive, then it becomes diversifying what that movement is because I don't always want them to lean into constantly busying or needing to multitask or over relying on exercise as their only option.
Because what happens when you're sick, you get injured, like that becomes, if that's your only coping strategy, then you're gonna feel really ungrounded and more anxious and not like yourself. So that's where like my flight responders, it's really important to begin to [00:25:00] diversify that maybe it looks like playing music because you're still moving, but it's taking you out of like a physically mobile like body and it's allowing you to at least sit physically still and then also be kind of distracted with playing. Mm hmm.
Jessie: And if someone's feeling really low energy, then what might be some gentle ways to bring them back into balance?
Alyssa: Yeah, I always like to tinker with does the client need more input or less input to change the output? So sometimes if there is like, um, some element of fatigue. Does the client need some breathing to then kind of get their body to have enough oxygen for them to entertain the option of then moving their body?
So maybe they need to start with some breathing. Um, or are they so overstimulated that they actually are responding appropriately to the overstimulation? So maybe this person needs noise canceling headphones on, sunglasses on, and they just like sit and hang out for a little bit, and they start to feel themselves like [00:26:00] actually improve their mood.
They feel more open or available to. Entertaining. Again, the option of like, now I feel like moving my body. So it's a, it's a unique nuance of, do I need more input or less input? And then people can just experiment with it. I'm going to put the noise cancelling headphones on, sunglasses, swaddle myself.
Does it make you feel better? Or are you feeling more, um, uneasy and more anxious? Then maybe you actually need movement first.
Jessie: Um, I think that's so helpful and it reminds me when I first started understanding this about myself, uh, there was no conversation about how our bodies are animals first and foremost, because I think if you aren't aware that we have, our brains are functioning based on, like you said, the tiger. Right prehistoric times, so it can be easy to feel like I'm broken.
Something's wrong with me rather than what helped me was, Oh, I'm actually responding perfectly to everything that I've been doing to my body [00:27:00] unknowingly. Have you found that with yourself or with clients that explaining kind of the why behind their symptoms has helped alleviate some of the stress behind them?
Alyssa: Yeah, definitely. I mean, my clients are very have very similar journeys to mine where there was a lot of overwhelm and hopelessness and I find safety and intellectualizing my journey, my symptoms first before I can actually start to sit with the discomfort of physical sensations. And this has been my own continued journey of like Feeling into it versus like staying in my brain.
Um, but given that specific example, I mean, that's why I loved understanding the nervous system is because every symptom I experienced was there was always a validating reason as to why, why was I binging while you were navigating a year of starvation mode, under eating and over exercising your brain has been made of.
connection to is Alyssa going to feed us or because for a year she hasn't. So I need to [00:28:00] store and withhold calories so that she stays alive. And so every symptom I experienced, I just had the immediate reason why, which then took a lot of the self blame and negative criticism I had of like, it's me.
What's wrong with me? I'm defective. Two, this makes sense. This is my body working for me. And a big part of my work was understanding that my body was working for me versus rebelling and like doing her own thing. It was like, oh, actually she was inherently trying to literally save me and keep me alive.
Jessie: Yes. That is such a beautiful reframe because it reminds us that our body's on our side,
Alyssa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Jessie: at war and our brains are on our side. Like, thank
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: that I was feeding you a
Alyssa: hmm. Laughter Laughter
Jessie: on the, the note of lifting. So something I've been seeing a lot is this whole.
Pilates is everything, and women shift [00:29:00] from typically HIIT or CrossFit, then they go to lifting and then they go to Pilates and they say Pilates is the be all end all. And I've said I fear that women are missing out on some of the benefits of muscle, of lifting. The issue is, is just not understanding the nuance of not going balls out, going to failure five times a week for lifting. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Have you had that conversation with clients or have clients not been able to tolerate lifting? Where do you fall on that spectrum?
Alyssa: Yeah, I think that Usually clients arrive to me with a lot of physical symptoms. So maybe there's a lot of pain Whenever they do work out, they're having kind of those Ironic responses of like I feel more lethargic I don't feel like I'm getting stronger when I go back into the gym. I have to reduce the weight, right?
So it's this counter productive counterintuitive response. And so usually by the time they arrive to me It's about getting their nervous system to Again, I use the word entertain [00:30:00] because when we don't even see exercise as an option or we feel unmotivated or we're not consistent, that to me is like your brain's trying to protect you from added stress. So can I get you to a safe enough place where the option for exercise now becomes something so natural where you start to crave movement? And you and I probably have very similar journeys of, we probably at this point. just enjoy moving our body on a daily basis. Whether that movement is a walk, whether that is a weight training session, whether that that's like lying on our yoga mat and breathing, but movement has become so much a part of our being that we can now tolerate the stress of exercise because it's just this very reciprocal relationship we're having.
So clients tend to come into my door with Exercise not being the best option. So we have to start from the ground level of like looking at where in their nervous system needs a little bit more, as I mentioned, the word input to then create a sense of body [00:31:00] connection so that then when they get into the gym, their body isn't going into that full like trauma response and actually can Benefit from that stress of the load on their body, of their muscles being pushed to a certain capacity and also recover from that.
Jessie: Mm. Okay. Is there a certain threshold that you tend to see for or that you recommend for women? Is it a couple days a week that they're typically lifting in the gym or is it they're no standard?
Alyssa: I would say this, if you have a background of weight training and you have relatively good form, and there's also a level of confidence in how to move through a gym, because I think the setting of a gym also can be really, um, It can feel like an unsafe environment for women, too, and then can prevent women from wanting to weight train.
So if you have a pretty good background, in general, like twice a week is probably gonna be sufficient in order to allow your nervous system, your body, and also your metabolism to gain some [00:32:00] benefits. Intensity wise, it's gonna really depend on your recovery methods, how stressed you are, what phase of your cycle you're in, so there's some nuances to it.
But I will say along the lines of you that all or nothing mentality is something that, um, we need to relearn. It's a comfortable default for me for sure. I definitely recognize that sometimes I do that. Um, and I think it's more of a response by the nervous system to eliminate options and have like an answer.
Like if it's black and white, the nervous system is like great versus like that gray space of like, I have to think about this and problem solve this. So just know that all or nothing is your brain's way of compartmentalizing information and making it simple and safer for you. So with all or nothing mentalities, it's really about relearning like that nuanced gray space.
Like what is enough? What does that look like? Are you craving to just connect to your body? Do you want to get out of pain? Are you pursuing weight loss? Because those will then factor in different types of outputs or different types of programming.
Jessie: Mm. Okay. Love the nuance there. That's really helpful. [00:33:00] We touched on this on the Food Freedom Evolution call, but for everybody else, I think this is a really important conversation. Blood sugar is all the rage these days, but for me, I didn't worry about my blood sugar at all because I felt well. But during my health crisis, my blood sugar was all over the damn place, and it was simply due to stress.
My diet was great, but I didn't realize just how much stress impacts me. Blood sugar. Did you have blood sugar issues with your health crisis post your competition?
Alyssa: Yeah, that was many years ago. So I think the research and like, as we're naming kind of these trends that come out, um, I would say it was less talked about then, but I was obviously noticing every time I ate, I would have like a crash. I'd have to take a nap. Um, in the morning, depending on what I had, it would either sustain my energy for a while, or I was noticing that I would have to snack more frequently.
So those are all kind of like common blood sugar [00:34:00] related responses. And so yeah. Now, I would say with a lot of the research coming out, I've been intentional about experimenting with myself in this current season of my body of like, what are my needs for energy? And what does that look like? What are the things that are impacting it?
Can I support myself better by having much more of a complete meal hypothetically? And what does that do for my sustained energy and performance later in the day?
Jessie: Hmm. Okay. And what are some of the signs that women might experience? For me, it was waking up in the middle of the night.
Alyssa: Yeah, that's a super common one. Um, I would say it is probably the need to eat more regularly. Like you find that you are someone that has to eat every three hours. or else you get hangry, right? You get that mood instability. There's like some sort of symptom that happens. You get a little brain foggy, you get distracted.
Uh, traveling pain is also a really common one with like poor blood sugar regulation. And [00:35:00] traveling pain is just, I had a headache and then now it moved to my shoulder and now it's down to my knee. So just all day your brain is ping ponging symptoms that could also be linked back to your blood sugar also just being in a much more like up and down kind of flow throughout the day.
Jessie: Interesting. Can you talk more about the traveling pain and where that arises from?
Alyssa: Yeah, so your brain's main form of communication is through pain and symptoms. And so pain is also very personal. When pain travels, typically it can be linked back to a couple of reasons, either that there's not enough oxygen in the person's, the person just like has poor breathing mechanics. So they have poor oxygen levels that's then not allowing, um, their body to, to let's say, hypothetically, they have back pain.
We do a drill, it takes the back pain away, but in five minutes it comes back. It might be a fueling component. Their brain doesn't have enough oxygen to rewire a new pathway so that then their brain doesn't have to communicate the same back pain signal. That is [00:36:00] one component, and then when it looks at the other component, it's going to be glucose.
So your brain depends on oxygen and glucose as its predominant fueling needs. So when we are low on glucose, or we're oscillating through highs and lows, what we'll notice pretty commonly is that your pain will travel throughout your body. It could be an hour and you could have like five different pain symptoms in that hour.
Again, headache, lower back, shoulder, knee, and it just moves throughout your body. We need glucose in order to literally feel safe in our body and for also our brain to work optimally. Your brain relies on glucose. And so if you are, like we talked about, intermittent fasting, a lot
of my clients who end up intermittent fasting, maybe with me or without, they tend to start to notice these really interesting symptoms of pain start to surface.
I never had my back hurt. All of a sudden my back hurts and then it moves to my ankle, right? And so it's this very common symptom or correlation between blood sugar and then traveling [00:37:00] pain.
Jessie: That is so, so fascinating.
Alyssa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Jessie: Gosh, the human body. And. On the note of glucose,
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: in your competition era, were you doing low carb dieting? Were you high carb dieting? What did that look like before and after?
Alyssa: Yeah, I was doing really, really low carb and I was working with this one coach for a set amount of time and then I had switched coaches and the coach that came in to look at my programming was like shocked. And the diet I switched to with him was still super low, but he was like, you are so low on carbohydrates and you're also low on fat.
So I was just low on everything except protein. And so you can imagine that in that space I I had a hard time thinking. I was flubbing my words, forgetting my sentences. I was also then really anxious. And then with that anxiety, I had like gut things also surface, you know? So it's this whole cyclical symptom and [00:38:00] recipe for like, Oh, this is because of lack of fuel that I start to manifest all these other symptoms as a result of just not having enough calories in my body.
So very, very low carb.
Jessie: Mmm, and the transition out of that, would presume that you started to eat a lot more carbohydrates in your healing phase. What did that look like?
Alyssa: Yeah, it's really, really interesting actually watching your, like how methodical you were about like, I want to prep for weight loss, I'm going to do all these things very intentionally. And for me, it was just at a point where like I had, I couldn't control what my body needed. And so I was, that's why I developed like a binge self soothing habit of, I could consume so many carbohydrates and not feel full.
And. It was just like this repetitive habit I was developing because I was so undernourished. So I had to kind of gain, I had to actually gain all that weight, that 65 pounds for my body to finally reach a place of homeostasis. And I remember when I stepped on the [00:39:00] scale, it was probably like two weeks in a row that I didn't gain weight because every week I was gaining weight.
The two weeks in a row where I didn't gain weight, I remember telling myself, this is probably a good thing. That your body has reached a point where it's stopped. It didn't need to put on more weight in order to survive. It reached a point that it was like, okay, I think we, I think we're here now. And then I had to accept truly that I probably need to be at that weight for a while until she felt safe enough for me to then start to pursue weight loss.
So I wish I was more methodical, but like my body had its own mind to like help me basically survive. And then once I got to homeostasis, then it became much more of like your approach of the methodical of like, okay, let me experiment. Let me track. Let me, um, better understand, like, how I can pursue this very sustainably and compassionately.
Jessie: Yeah, I think that's such an important nuance because I think people conflate binging with overeating and overeating like with mine. I just thought I was under eating and so I intentionally was eating more. I could have easily stopped. I just thought, [00:40:00] okay, better be safe than sorry. I feel so unwell that I'm going to go for this.
I think this is the thing I was just wanted the magic bullet and it actually made me feel so much worse, but I think it's important to understand those differences that binging. I mean, you tell me, but I know binge eating disorder is you can't actually stop, it's like a
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: brain is just, I cannot control this. And that's very different from someone overeating.
Alyssa: Yeah, and I was that person that would visit, like, multiple grocery stores, because I wouldn't want to be seen at the same one for what I was buying. So, attached with binge eating was a lot of shame. And then it was eating alone, right? And it was eating fast. And it was eating, um, Like the fast component of it I remember just like laying things out on my countertop and being like there's no way I can finish this and then in a matter of minutes I would be like on the last muffin or something, you know, and then feeling so physically sick, but at the same point also feeling like slightly better too.
Like it was holding both and [00:41:00] of like I feel physically sick and I kind of feel like a little bit better. And so I just went through so many rounds of that and it was very confusing because I was like I don't want to feel out of control with food. I think that was a big fear thing. It's like who wants to feel out of control, you know, and I was just so out of control with food and And, and yet I was also kind of feeling better.
So I had to hold that with the understanding that like, maybe this has been purposeful. I mean, I couldn't really sit and accept that because I was not wanting to feel out of control or gain the weight, but it was like something I just literally was on autopilot with for like so long.
Jessie: Yeah, at that point, you, it sounds like you didn't have a choice at all. So you just kind of had to throw your hands up and say, I'm along for the ride until my body and brain have say they've had enough.
Alyssa: Totally. Totally. And to literally like when people talk about like, just surrender to the process, just let go. I mean, that is truly like my body just wanted to do what she needs to do. And I had to get to a [00:42:00] place of like, okay, I'm going to trust you. And I hope that this returns back to a place of like, you know, that teamwork, that partnership that I was hoping for would return.
Jessie: Oh gosh. And to look at where you are now, just to give anyone hope who's listening to this and might be in a similar state, I mean, you are thriving now and you've come to a place where it seems like you're very much connected to your body and your body, you know how to access that safety.
Alyssa: Yeah. And I think that You know, it's been many years. I think that's an intimidating timeline to give people that are in the thick of it because if someone told me in the middle of my metabolic journey that it's going to take years, I'd be like, no, thank you. Like, what is the cookie? Like, what's the faster approach to this?
But because it took that timeline, it was going to be sustainable at the same time because I was truly pacing every experiment I ran with what I had space for. If I was in a busy season with work, I probably wasn't going to lose any weight and I had to just be honest with myself [00:43:00] that like okay This is gonna be a maintenance season and what we're gonna focus on is just developing a better relationship with food Developing a different relationship with exercise because that's also part of the work, too
Jessie: Oh gosh, everyone needs to go back and rewind that and replay it because I think that is, I try to talk about that all the time, but I still feel like people don't hear me.
Alyssa: Hmm
Jessie: you just need to run into the fire so many times before you get the message. And like you, you have no other option, but that's so incredibly important is playing the long game.
Alyssa: yeah, and I the best way I've been yeah, go ahead. I Was gonna say the best way to How I've been able to communicate to my clients about sustainable like progress and performance or weight loss Whatever it might be is that if we look at specifically weight loss, right? The method we're given is calories in calories out equals right then like over time you're under calories you lose weight From a nervous system perspective.
We want to understand that the [00:44:00] calories in factors in more than what you're eating It could be that stressful relationship you're in. It could be that really overstimulating environment that you're taking in threats, which then is changing your output, which then is going to change the answer. And so if my clients can understand what is their biggest threats, Oh, it's this super stressful work relationship.
Well, maybe what we need to do as part of your weight loss, as part of your weight loss strategy is to create better boundaries. Well, what comes up when we start to learn boundaries? Well, I feel guilty, I feel selfish, da da da, da da. So then it gets into like a lot of the like nuances of like, well, so-and-SO'S weight loss journey has to include boundary setting.
It has to include understanding that that's one of her biggest threats and relational connection is a very valuable. Like offset to that. So if she had a super stressful, you know, conversation with this work person, it impacts, she's taking in a lot of calories. It's going to change her output. But can we then have her land in a safe conversation?
So her calories out then will still [00:45:00] equal sustained, like the weight loss goal. Does that make sense? Yes.
Jessie: the metabolism is not static. It's dynamic. So both sides of the equation are constantly changing and the stress load, it sounds like what you're saying impacts the output.
Alyssa: Yeah, exactly. So all said, I always try to storytell it and there's like so many because there's so many different things that factor in like over time you have less calories and you and I have both experienced this that sometimes eating more is good is what is going to lead to weight loss and that doesn't fit into that equation, but it fits into the concept of that equation, the safety mean, the sustainable part of like you.
Yeah, yeah,
Jessie: I think people have this misconception when they say it's not about calories. It is, but there are so many nuances within that because the nervous system, the body is constantly adapting to [00:46:00] so many different inputs that it's not just one number. And that's how it is forever. I think that's where people get really confused.
So the nervous system piece, I think is so important that you're bringing that the conversation. One thing I think is really important these days, and there is pushback from women who, you know, might be working mother, modern day women have so much on their plates. And so they look at people like us, anyone talking about stress management, nervous system regulation, and sometimes there's a bit of an eye roll, like, how the hell am I supposed to do this? So what is one thing that you might recommend to a woman in that situation? To start to connect to her body, to get to a place of more ease?
Alyssa: I think it goes back to me answering the question as to like answering the why as to why that's happening that can also just [00:47:00] help like validate your experiences. So I would definitely start there with the reassurance and validation that maybe you don't want to connect to your body because you've had three months of no sleep, right?
So you don't actually want to sit with how tired you are because if you give yourself that option, maybe you notice that like, Oh my God, I'm that tired. I have no motivation to then do the dishes, cook, clean, whatever it might be. And so I just want to validate first that the disconnection from your body makes a lot of protective sense because sometimes sitting with those symptoms can be too overwhelming.
The biggest I would say recommendation I would have is to just begin naming how you're feeling because if you can begin to start just a dialogue with your body, that's going to That's going to be a wonderful first step of then starting to have her work with you, you guys work together. And that could be like, I am tired, you know, and when someone asks how you're doing, Oh, I'm actually hanging on by a thread.
And to just be much more honest with what's coming up and what symptoms you're experiencing versus the like, I'm good [00:48:00] and the continuation of pushing through, pushing past, like start to just develop that dialogue because when we can actually be authentically honest with ourselves Your nervous system honestly will take an exhale and be like, Oh, thank God.
Like Alyssa is finally recognizing that we've been tired. You know, she's finally recognizing we're being tired. I didn't change my behaviors for months because I was so stubborn. But I did say you are tired. Until I got to a place where I was like, huh, you've been saying you're tired for three months.
Maybe you should now take action on that. And so I had to develop the language first around the predominant symptoms I was feeling and the habitual feelings I was repeating. And then I was then finally ready to be like, well, you don't want to repeat that. You don't want three more months of being tired, stressed and anxious.
Okay, now what do we do? So it's like a building, a very slow methodical process. And it's important to just move at your own pace.
Jessie: I think that is so important to highlight. I work with clients and they get so down on themselves that I'm becoming more aware of these [00:49:00] habits, but I'm still not changing them. And there's a And sometimes we do need just that awareness, awareness, awareness until we realize, okay, I'm finally at my tipping point and I don't want to experience this anymore, but we don't realize how often we're not even aware of how shitty we feel
Alyssa: Yeah. And how good we could feel, too, because we've normalized, like the brain again, loves to repeat with whatever's familiar. So if like we're always tired, it's like, well, I don't have to work less, I don't have to work more to give you a different feeling. It's like, we're always tired. Cool. I'm going to send you the same, same signal over and over again.
And the brain loves efficiency. So the ability to Develop that dialogue. It's just, it's like a prep phase. It's like when you prep to work out, you maybe roll around the foam roller, you do some stretches. You want to do that same thing for any habit change.
Jessie: love that, love that. I think that'll be really helpful for [00:50:00] any woman in that stage to go easy on yourself, but to not give up at
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: Okay, so last question here. What is one book that you would, that you do recommend most often to people?
Alyssa: Hmm. Okay. There's two that comes to mind, but the first one is the brain that changes itself. So it's all about neuroplasticity. It helps really conceptualize the, these conversations around pain, how the brain is plastic and your. ability to change how you think, feel and, uh, like move through the world. Like it gives you so much hopefulness that like the current situation you're in, you can change that. And there's so many case studies and beautiful literature around, um, how people have drastically made significant changes based off of neuroplasticity in your brains. Desire to actually change and have novelty.
So that's a wonderful read. And the second one is How to [00:51:00] Heal Your Metabolism. That was one of the best books I read. Kate Dearing is such a wonderful resource around metabolic health. Her, what I absolutely love is super dense with and rich with research and her last chapter is called happiness and she finishes off her super scientific book with, but if you are not happy along this journey, you are not developing a beautiful relationship with nourishing foods versus it being like an exchange or transaction.
She's like, that's going to stunt your ability to heal your metabolism. And I think that holistic type of approach where you're addressing all the moving pieces is, it was so refreshing to read because I think in my brain, I knew that I had to address that for myself. But to have like it literally in a book that again, the first 16 chapters are so rich with dense science information to then have her end with that.
I was like, Oh, this means this is very meaningful.
Jessie: Oh, beautiful. Okay, I'll link those in the show notes
Alyssa: Mm hmm.
Jessie: how can [00:52:00] people work with you and where can they follow you?
Alyssa: Um, my Instagram is coach Alyssa Chang, that's also my website and how people can work with me is I have a private membership called brain better where we are taking this nervous system approach to health and healing and working with your body. It's a group of other women that are also in this path of.
Wanting to really learn how to create sustainable changes from this nervous system lens. Um, they're really over the fad dieting and the working against the body and pushing through pain. And the second option is going to be for my better expert program, which doors will be opening in 2024. I opened enrollment just one time a year for this program.
It's a six month course where you're really going to school to learn about your, how to work with your body from this nervous system lens. It's a small cohort of, I max it out at 10 students because it's a really intimate relationship I developed with each of the students there. And it's just a wonderful, every cohort is so wonderful and it's always the perfect amount of students.
Um, [00:53:00] and the timing of it all, it's just a wonderful container I get to hold for a lot of this really hard work, but the types of relationships that are built as well as the progress that's made, it's, it's like, Just such a special program. So every enrollment, I'm always very excited to see who kind of comes in.
Jessie: Amazing. Okay. I'll link those in the show notes as well. So anyone who's interested in learning more about themselves, their brains, their bodies, everything amazing that we covered here can go find you,
Alyssa: Thank you.
Jessie: so much for coming on the show.
Alyssa: Thank you, Jesse.