From the Yellow Chair
From the Yellow Chair
Why Every Brand Needs a Story and How to Tell It Well with James Erskine
What makes a brand memorable isn’t volume, it’s precision. We sit down with James Erskine, CEO of Rocket, to explore how one product can hold multiple stories—and why telling the right one to the right person is the difference between being noticed and being ignored. From children’s publishing to home services, we break down how kids crave characters while parents want proof, and how similar demographics can still hide wildly different buyer motivations.
We dig into practical methods for finding those motivations: live research panels, smarter questions, and constant recalibration as habits change with screens and social media. James shares a candid take on brand positioning—why authority and a clear point of difference beat generic claims every time—and how chemistry and service quality quietly decide deals. We talk about the real role of AI, too: great for spotting patterns in data, useless without human judgment. Expect a future where “human-made” becomes a trust badge, not a nostalgic throwback.
Then, we shift to perception and belonging. Cultural relevance can reframe how a market sees you, while founder-led stories make expertise feel personal. Loyalty grows when customers feel like members, not transactions—priority lines, early access, or small VIP moments can transform retention without heavy discounts. Finally, we map out advocacy marketing that actually works: ask for honest feedback a week later, turn customer wins into social proof, and make it easy for people to share the story of working with you.
If you’re ready to sharpen what you’re known for and build a community that sells your value for you, hit play. Subscribe, leave a quick review, and share this with a friend who needs to hear it.
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From the Yellow Chair is powered by Lemon Seed, a marketing strategy and branding company for the trades. Lemon Seed specializes in rebrands, creating unique, comprehensive, organized marketing plans, social media, and graphic design. Learn more at www.LemonSeedMarketing.com
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We'll see you next time, Lemon Heads!
What's up, Lemon Heads? Welcome back to another episode of From the Yellow Chair. I'm Emily, and I'm so excited to chat with my guest today because we're going to be talking about marketing and branding and the importance of storytelling. And while he might have a little bit different clientele than what Lemon Seed has as our clientele, that core foundational piece of telling an authentic story, how to stand out to make your brand um be memorable, be noticed, is what we're going to talk about today because that is universal for any brand. And so I'm so excited to chat with our friend today here. You will not want to miss this, so stay tuned! All right. Well, James, I'm so excited to have you in our virtual lemonade stand, if you will. Um, you know, we got your intake form, and there was tons of things that were sticking out to me about what you and your agency are doing, and it made me super excited to talk to you today. So why don't you introduce yourself to our lemon heads and to give us a little bit of background about you and your agency and what you guys are doing? Of course.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, first of all, hello to you, and hello to the lemon heads. It's funny, I was that there isn't a single strategic bone in my body that should have said I should do this podcast. But having heard it, I really wanted to because you're a lot of fun. I love the fact that you talk about issues that are true and important for your clients. And yeah, I'm I'm really pleased that you've seen the synergies between some of the work that we're doing and some of the work that you and your clients are going through. So, anyway, to introduce myself, I'm James. I am the CEO of an agency that's based in London called Rocket, and we specialize in youth and children stuff. So, obviously, a bit of families, a bit of teachers, kind of gatekeepers to that audience. But yeah, that's what we do. And we reach them in a number of different ways. We reach them by making content, we reach them using social media, we reach them using media partnerships, and we also reach them using influencer marketing, and that's kind of the brush strokes. We've been going about 16 years. Uh, some of our big clients everybody will have heard of. So we work for Penguin Random House, we work for Harper Collins, we work for Merlin Entertainment, we work for a few um uh universities and a few education clients, a few charities as well. So we're very lucky.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, you know, great clientele. And I know they were coming back to you because you guys are doing great work, and so that's super exciting. So thank you for being here today. Um, and in case you guys can't tell, he's based in the UK, so he has a different accent than our East Texas accent. So it's the episode of the accents, if you will.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_00:Um, awesome. Well, so like you and I were kind of chatting a little bit before the recording started, and you know, the core piece of marketing and branding is that storytelling aspect. You know, you've got to tell a story about your brand before anyone would ever buy your product. So, how do you and your agency go about telling a brand story?
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's a really good point because I can answer this on two different levels. One, I can tell the story about our business and about our agency, and about how what we do is we actually have a panel of 450 families across the UK, and we ask them their opinions and we ask them their opinions on what's important to them, what's what's going to motivate them, what's exciting their children. And right now, a lot of that is around screen time and the toxicity of children being on the screens all the time. So that is us and our story, but we also tell our clients' stories, and luckily enough, this has another meta level to it because some of our clients' stories are telling stories. So we work with a lot of book publishers, and what's really funny then is that you're talking to different audiences about the same thing, and I bet this is as true for your clients. So, what I mean by that is when we're launching a children's author, let's say when we're talking about the Wimpy Kids franchise, right? So huge children's book.
SPEAKER_00:My let's love the Wimpy's Wimpy series, yes.
SPEAKER_01:There you go. Well, it's amazing. That's why I chose one that's massive in the US, and it's pretty big in the UK. It's number one, number two every Christmas when David Walliams isn't number one in the UK, if anybody knows who he is. So, what's really important there is to the kids, they don't care about the author. The kids do not care that it's an existing franchise. What they want to know about is the storytelling and the characters. What the parents want, and the reason why so many sequels are made in Hollywood, and the reason why is the parents want to see a rubber stamp, they want to be reassured. And what that's a really good example of is two different audiences being told a slightly different story to sell the same product. And I think we see that all the time in marketing. Let me give you an amazing fact, right? If you and I are on Netflix right now and we're gonna watch the same show on my Netflix account, it might have a different thumbnail, a different image to your Netflix account. With me, it'll give me the male lead, it will show me a different bit of the storyline. If you're on Netflix going to the same show, it will show you the female lead because that's what we want from our dramas. And that's another really good example, a microcosm of telling a slightly different story about the same product or service for a different audience, and that's a real important lesson that I've learned.
SPEAKER_00:No, I mean, that's so fantastic. We were even just doing a training with our own team about how to coach our clients to um, you have to adapt to different buyer personalities. And so even if they are literally in the exact same demographic, so you know, you were kind of talking about parents and kids, kind of different demographics, but you are selling the same product, so you have to tell different stories. Well, our clientele might be sell selling to like the same age of person, maybe similar household income, things like that, but they have different buyer personalities to where one's like, hey, I don't have time for this, I just need it done. This one sounds good, install it. And so it's like, well, tell me a little bit more about the efficiency of it and how is this gonna um change my energy bill thing? Like they need a lot more details and stuff. So, like, you have to be aware enough of how you're telling your message and portraying your message to make sure that you are speaking to things that are important to them.
SPEAKER_01:It's such a good point. I mean, you look at me and my incredible wife, right? What I want to know is something that's gonna be done quickly, and then people aren't gonna be in my house for very long. What my beautiful wife wants is she's a better global citizen than me. She cares about the environment, she wants to know the green element. She and you're right, it's different motivations for different people sometimes to achieve the same goal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But you have to be able to know how to tell those different stories about the exact same product. It's an art and a skill. Um, and I think that's why some people excel at sales and and at marketing, because they're in depth enough to know how people are receiving that story, not just what they think is their own story and what they want to tell, but adapting it to what other people want to hear.
SPEAKER_01:Completely. And I think the only way to find that out is by asking questions as well. So often we'll do some research pieces to find out what excites parents, what excites the target audience. Sometimes when you are just talking to a consumer panel, you can find out things you have no ideas about. And that conversational element is really important.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and you also have to be like, you know, when you're consulting your focus groups or, you know, the people that you're talking to, like that has to always be changing too, like, especially in today's world with social media and how kids are consuming content and entertainment and things like that, you know. Like you said, you've been in it, you know, over 15, almost 20 years and stuff. So, like that information from back then is drastically different than today. So, like, you can't always be resting on your laurels of like, oh, well, this is what was said and this is what was has been proven, but like, how are you always adapting and and growing with that? So being nimble and willing to adapt and change with the times and as people's buying personalities and consumption habits are changing.
SPEAKER_01:Completely. I also think what's really important is to get an understanding of somebody's knowledge in a specific area because I'm a firm believer that consumers are getting smarter. And I always tell this story, but it's so fascinating to me. I was being a really bad dad in the back of a London taxi recently, and I said to my darling daughter, I want to read something, just take my phone, you look at TikTok, and she did. And when she gave me my phone back, she said, Dad, I think I've probably really changed your TikTok algorithm. There'll be loads of cat videos there. Now, she was right, but what 11-year-old used to know about algorithms in the same way. What consumers now know about social media is so far on ahead, and that's true of every different product. People know about windows a lot more, people know about washing machines a lot more, everybody has a little bit of knowledge, and sometimes that knowledge is based on inaccuracy, sometimes that knowledge is a myth that needs to be dispelled, but everybody reads more, everybody has a better understanding now, and it's really important to understand how much people fully understand before you then go in that kind of journey about what sort of problem you can solve.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you're right. We have an overabundance of information, and if you don't know something, it's because you don't want to know it, because you have infinite resources of how you could go find information. And you make a great point, like some of it might be false, but I think that's also why brands have to make an intentional job to position themselves as the authority and the expert in that space. Like, you know, sometimes you have to weed out or um dispel the myths or the lies that might be out there, but it takes a lot of intentionality to do that, right?
SPEAKER_01:Completely. And you you raised such a good point by having an authoritative position, something that you can be trustworthy in. Lots of people nowadays talk about a brand purpose, and not every brand has to, you know, do really good for the world, not every brand has to believe in something, but what every brand should do is have a point of difference and know what it's good at. Every band should be able to say, we're the best at this, or we're the cheapest at this, or we know how to solve a problem, or look, it might not be the best result, but we'll be in and out of your house within two days. As long as there is a unique position and a proposition, then it means your client base can go away and take that unique proposition, and that's what they can be known for. And the worst thing about not being known for something is not being known for anything.
SPEAKER_00:That is so true. We need to clip that out right there. Um, you know, it is when we're interviewing our clients or like we're doing a re a rebrand for them, you know, we're doing these deep dive questionnaires and stuff. And it is almost like truly heartbreaking to me when I say, like, why would I pick your company over your competitors? And so many times they'll be like, Hmm, that's a good question. You know, I haven't really thought about that. And I'm like, how have you not thought about this? You know, like it should be your core defining mission. You, everyone on your team knows it. You are telling people about that. Like, this is why you should choose me. And you're right, whatever it is, just own it. Don't try to be what someone else is, or this is what they're doing. So, like, I gotta figure out how I can do that. No, they're doing that. Figure out what you're going to do and what you're gonna hang your hat on.
SPEAKER_01:It goes like sorry, Teresa. It's such a good point you raise. I I often describe myself as the world's most reluctant entrepreneur. I sort of ended up in this space, and I can speak both from a marketing perspective, but also from the perspective of a small business owner. And every time we've done something wrong is when we've been chasing somebody else's dream, somebody else's vision. When we stayed true to what we do, and the other thing to sell that is actually one of our unique selling points as a business is we're nice to deal with. You know, lots of it is chemistry, and chemistry is so underrated in the you talk about efficiency of service, but actually, every single job now, or else it will be done by AI and it'll be done by a robot. Every job is a service industry. You have to be easy to get along with, whether you're hiring cars, whether you're, you know, whether you're selling fridges, anything is a service industry job, and you have to be good to deal with, or else people will go to people that are good to deal with. So it's a really undervalued part of business, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I I think you're a hundred percent right. And you know, and we could even kind of take our conversation here is like, you know, AI is disrupting the entire world and almost every single marketplace and things like that. But like that chemistry and that human relationship and how you make people feel is something that the robots will never be able to take away from the humans. And so when you can be very intentional to provide that chemistry to make it easy and enjoyable to work with you and your company, like that is something that is gonna be irreplaceable.
SPEAKER_01:Completely. I'd agree with that. It's funny with AI, isn't it? Because look, the genie's out of the bottle, it's not going away. We've got to be aware, in the same way that social media has proliferated hugely, in the same way that new trends, AI is definitely going to get involved in people's daily lives more and more. But what we have to do as business owners is understand its limitations and its uses. So it's never going to replace a human interface. There are some stories of it going very badly wrong. You know, Apple News was showing BBC headlines that weren't accurate because they'd used AI to find the headlines from the stories, and they said the wrong person has won a tennis match, the wrong celebrity had died. So you always need a human bit of quality control. The thing that AI does really well is taking complicated data models and making them sound a bit more human. What we do with our social media things is we always plug it into AI and we say, what are the trends that we're seeing? Now, how can people do that in small businesses? What I would strongly recommend is putting every single invoice into AI in order and getting AI to have a look at trends. That will give you a yearly spend, that'll give you, and that can be done in one prompt. Here are all my invoices for the last three months. Can you look for any abnormalities? Can you look for any strange? And what that does is it means you've got somebody there who, if finance isn't your first calling, you've got AI to act as almost a rubber stamp, if you like. And it's really good taking big amounts of data that you might not necessarily use. Have an AI hour once a week of just chucking your existing things into AI to see whether it can spot any trends that you might not be able to. That's one of the ways that we've done it. The other thing I would say on AI is, and this might be a bigger picture thing, I do think there's a bit of a backlash coming. So having worked in publishing and with publishing brands, there's a brand of or a genre of book called romanticy. And something like of the top 10, five were written by AI. And I think there's now almost a backlash coming in the same way that some people want organic chicken, in the same way that we want to see, you know, a rubber stamp that humans have been involved in the making of this product. And I think when people realize they are gonna speak to a real person and not a call center, they are gonna speak to someone at the end of the phone that someone answering their emails is a real person. I think people will be more inclined to deal with those human instincts.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. Yeah, I mean, super interesting, you know, and I think everything comes and goes and trends and stuff. You know, it's so true in fashion and stuff, but you know, like especially with the height of COVID, like retail spaces were closing left and right and stuff. But I saw a documentary the other day of how like some retail and physical spaces are coming back now because people are craving that human interaction. They were calling it third spaces, so like a whole business model around third space. So, like, you know, your first space is your home, your second space is maybe your office, but people are looking for somewhere to go, like, you know, and so it is interesting in how things ebb and flow. Um, and I think you're right. I think people um are gonna know and understand AI and utilize it in some ways and love it in some ways, but then also have other elements of AI where they value and appreciate the human element over certain things and stuff. And so um again, I think it just takes to go into being that that nimbleness to it, um, knowing how to adapt and not being like digging your heels in and like being set in your own ways of like this is how it is, but like, okay, maybe this is how it was for a few years, but like now we're seeing that shift. So, like, here's how we're going to adapt and change to it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'd agree with that, definitely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So one other thing, and I'm kind of backtracking a little bit, but I think it kind of goes in towards this topic of shifting perceptions. And so, like, we talked about that with AI, you know, how are we leaning into it? How are we nodding and how to shift that? But like, how do you and your agency go about shifting perceptions for brands? So you talked about those storytelling elements and things, but like, what if they've done a terrible job of telling their story in the past? Or what if they've told a story and it was a story that people didn't like? What have been some ways of how you have shifted and changed perspectives of viewers' consumptions of brands?
SPEAKER_01:So I'll use some grand terms first of all, and then I'll explain what they mean in normal language. So, first grand term I would say is cultural relevance, and the second brand's uh grand term that brands really should kind of focus on is around what motivates their audience. So let me bring that down to earth. Cultural relevance, first of all. We actually worked with the Royal College of Podiatry to position podiatry in the UK as a different kind of profession. And what we did was we kind of said, well, look, everybody wants to be involved in better mental health and better wellness. So what we did was we positioned podiatry, yes, playing with people's feet as an extension of the wellness industry. And that told the same story, but through a slightly different, more culturally relevant framing, if you like. Now, what can we do that as small business owners? I think every single small business owner can tell a story that is more culturally relevant, and it might be purely about the people that make up that business. I'm not saying everybody needs to become a content creator, but what I am saying is I bet the cultural significance of the backstory of that individual that's making that business will be interesting to its customers. And even if they kind of put themselves front and center of the emails that go out, there's a huge rise for founder-led content. And even if that is your colleagues sticking a mobile phone at your face to say, what's been the best project we've worked on this month, that could be really valuable. And it starts to shift those cultural perceptions. The other thing that I said was what motivates the audience. This is a grand view, but go with it. I think every brand now that's successful is trying to make its customer base feel It's like some kind of a private member's club. So, what do your clients get? They get this podcast. What else do your clients get? They get a check-in call to let them know how they're doing. So, what can your clients give to their customer base? Is it something as simple as we'll have festive drinks the week before Thanksgiving? Is it something as simple as the best project that they've worked on goes in a newsletter and everybody gets to hear about it? That kind of join the club mentality, I think, is really, really valuable because then you can see other people that have gone through the same process as them. And the other thing is, you think you do a great story of selling your business, but actually you don't do it as well as one other person. And that other person is your customers. Getting customers together to say, oh yeah, they were great, is so much more powerful, it's more authentic. And actually, all influencer marketing is when you look at that, is real people discussing real products. Now we're coming down to advocacy marketing. Success custom, successful people that have been served successfully by a business talking about how good that business is. And there's nothing more valuable. If you can engineer that, if you can manufacture that, it really starts to look impressive.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I want to dissect two of these things really quick. So you said how what motivates them? So, like, how do you make them feel like they're a part of a club? I I love that so much because I think when they feel like they're a part of a club, they feel like they're a part of something. I think that loyalty aspect goes up tremendously. And so, you know, in our home service industry, a lot of our clientele will have membership clubs or maintenance clubs to where, hey, sign up for our plan here. Um, you will get biannual tune-ups or whatever it might be, but you also have to create more perks and more benefits, more reasons of why they need to be a part of this club that not everyone else has access to, you know, and so you might immediately think that it goes to like special pricing or discounts and things like that, and maybe that's part of it, but like, is it priority service? Is it a special hotline, which is just a phone number that goes to your office that almost anyone else could call, but like, does it make them feel more special? Is there more of a perceived value there? So you have to create reasons of why they should buy into it.
SPEAKER_01:You're you're so right. I mean, Nando's in the UK has a black card, and that Nando's black card is apparently gets you free chicken for life. I think there are only about 20, 25 black cards in circulation, but it makes the whole prospect really aspirational and it makes people feel a bit competitive about being super brand loyal to that brand. And there are so many other examples, you're right, it doesn't have to mean much, but if it means something, I use a mobile phone network or a cell phone network in the UK called O2, and O2 sponsor a big music venue in London, and because I'm an O2 customer, I get to a shorter queue than people that aren't O2 customers. That's all it takes. Suddenly I feel so much more valuable. Also, as part of being an O2 customer, I get res I get response uh priority ticking ticketing for various concerts at the O2. So again, I'm still paying money, I'm still not getting the tickets for free. And exactly as you say, it's that perceived benefit, it's making people feel more special.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, and then I think that kind of goes right into what you call advocacy marketing. And I love that term. So we talked about like what can you do to create that loyalty? Um, but then how can they become your advocates? How can they become your raving fans? Because I think that is a crucial piece of marketing that people often forget about. Like, hey, we did the job, we got paid, they were happy, good, moving on. But like, no, like what can you be do to for them to be telling their story? How can you build that loyalty to where they want to tell the story and the experience that they had with you? Um, and you know, influencer marketing is definitely a piece of that. But even like if you're not even a traditional influencer marketer, like on social media, you're still your customer is still an influencer in their own circles, even if they're not live on TikTok every three hours or something, you know.
SPEAKER_01:But even put them live on TikTok or make that video and say, How did we do a job? Even ask the question, what's the wrong thing that we could have done better? What was the thing and where we surprised you most? It's a combination of really valuable insight and feedback. And people will be more honest if they if you don't do it when you've just left the house or just sold them the product. They'll be a lot more honest if you go back a week later. They'll be flattered that you're going to use their opinion and their thoughts in your marketing, in your customer analysis, and it will be really good content for when you do splice together all the highlights and when you've got a load of customers singing your praises. So, yeah, I'm I'm a real believer in that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's fantastic. I love that. I love that. Well, James, I have really enjoyed our conversation today. And we talked about lots of things, but lots of things that get me excited. And I think our clientele can um pull some things in there of how they can utilize this into their own marketing. So if anyone wanted to connect with you or maybe learn a little bit more about you or what your company is doing, how might they contact you?
SPEAKER_01:They can get in touch with me. You can find me on LinkedIn, so James Erskine, E-R-S-K-I-N-E. You can have a look at rocket, wearerocket.co.uk, or you can find me on Blue Sky or uh X James Erskine or one word. And yeah, I'll happily have chats about marketing, happily have chats about podcasting, happy to have chats about all sorts of topics. So it'd be great to hear from some folks. It'd be great.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. We will link that information down below. So thank you for listening to another episode of From the Yellow Chair. Um, Lemon Seed, this podcast is uh powered by Lemon Seed. So we are your marketing and branding home service experts. So if you need help creating a strategy for your marketing and having a brand that stands out and destructive and it's telling an authentic story like what we talked about today, Lemon Seed is your go-to for that. We would love to connect with you, lemonseedmarketing.com. So, James, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate you and I appreciate all our listeners, the Lemon Heads. Thank you.