Attribution That Matters: Stop Guessing, Start Knowing with Jeff Greenfield

Most marketing reports tell a neat story that isn’t true. We peel back the layers with Jeff from Provalytics to show how real customers actually find and choose a contractor—and why single-source attribution keeps leading teams astray. Think of it as a tour through the “dash” between first touch and last touch, where attention becomes awareness, awareness becomes preference, and preference shows up as revenue when the system fails on a 102-degree day.

We start with the mess: platforms that overcount conversions, privacy updates that stripped away hyper-targeting, and CRMs that force a one-source label on multi-touch journeys. Jeff breaks down a simple fix with outsized impact—track impressions alongside clicks, calls, and bookings. When you watch impressions daily, you’ll see how demand builds before it converts, and you’ll finally know whether that Meta video, CTV spot, or direct mail drop did the heavy lifting while Google just closed the loop.

From there, we get practical. Billboards don’t need QR codes to work; trucks are mobile billboards that make you familiar before the emergency; magnets can produce for years with a single tracking number. We map sprints and marathons across channels, separate aggregator leads so they don’t sink your averages, and reframe success around revenue per lead and booking rates instead of raw volume. Expect different timelines by channel, embrace the carryover or “drag” effect, and accept that some value is real even when it isn’t perfectly measurable.

The mindset shift is simple: be less wrong this month than last month. Weather changes, rates move, teams evolve, and platforms rewrite rules. When you track impressions, clicks, bookings, and revenue together, you get the confidence to pivot fast or ride out campaigns with patience. That’s how you build a durable brand, control your demand, and own your market. If this hit home, follow the show, share it with a fellow contractor, and leave a quick review so more pros can measure what truly matters.

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From the Yellow Chair is powered by Lemon Seed, a marketing strategy and branding company for the trades. Lemon Seed specializes in rebrands, creating unique, comprehensive, organized marketing plans, social media, and graphic design. Learn more at www.LemonSeedMarketing.com

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Transcript

Kicking Off 2026 And KPIs

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What's up, 11 heads? Welcome to a whole nother episode of From the Yellow Chair. I am Crystal Rod and Solo in today's episode here from our podcast studio in Lufkin, Texas. And it's a great start to 2026. And listen, all of you know I'm reviewing 2025, and you know what I'm looking at? How things perform. Metrics, point of acquisition for clients, how many leads you actually got, your booking rates, all the KPIs that you guys love for us to push hard on you about. But listen, guys, when we're making decisions for our marketing and we're not using data to give us good direction and good areas to pivot and juice it up and all of those things, we're really making blind decisions. And so when I came across my guest today, I was like, uh, hello, where have you been all of my life to talk about attribution? So you're gonna want to settle in, grab your lemonade. Let's really get down to how you can tell what is working in your marketing, what you should be expecting. Let's sip some lemonade. All right. Well, Jeff, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Hey, good morning, Crystal. Thank you so much for having me here today to talk about my favorite subject as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I'm telling you, we're we're a match made in heaven for this. Now, this is a soapbox moment for Crystal. But um, you know, I am all about I want contractors to be able to truly have a more um more visibility into what's working for them, even if I have to teach them how to look at it collectively. But there is so much data out there. And so, Jeff, you have a really cool company called Provolytics. Um, you and I were just talking about it before we jumped on here. Um, and so why should anyone care what you have to say, Jeff? Kind of tell us about what you do and and how your approach is to basically attribution.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Well, you know, my history, I was a small business owner myself for a number of years. So I've I've kind of lived that same world. I got my start actually as a chiropractor. So I lived, you know, just like in the HVAC world where it's all about leads and it's all about new customers for me, it was all about new patients, new patients, new patients. Uh, and that was back in the days before there was digital, before there was internet, and and and all of those things. So I understand kind of the pain that you feel from a business perspective. But the way I got into this is that after I had an injury that got me out of that business and ended up in marketing and ended up buying the media for one of the larger publicly traded weight loss companies right at the beginning of digital media. This is like 2007, 2008. And we noticed very quickly that the numbers never added up. And what I mean by that is they were very popular. We'd have like a thousand sales a day, and then we would go and log into the platforms to see how many sales they said that they got, and they were all on commission. So we were paying out commissions on these. It all added up from their side to 8,000. So they were overcounting by a factor of eight. And you know, sometimes you can figure out the math on that, but they expected us to pay out on 8,000 customers when we only got a thousand. So we had to fix something here.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah.

Privacy Shifts And The Loss Of Targeting

SPEAKER_01 3:25

So I built out what became one of the first uh attribution platforms for the industry called C3 Metrics. That was back in 2008. We had customers from uh JP Morgan, some of the largest US banks, some of the largest, larger spenders in the United States. And I scaled that company up. And about a year before the pandemic, I exited there, figured I was done. I had spent 12 years in measurement because I'm I didn't get my start as a numbers guy. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna do something else. But then because of the pandemic, like everything shifted on the internet. A lot of people noticed this, like there was all these iOS updates that happened, the cookie updates had happened, and they were all because of privacy. So, what happened is that the whole advertising ecosystem shifted because of privacy. And what that meant is that we needed to change the way that we measured. Now, any folks who are listening who during this time frame, uh, if you ever logged into Meta to look at ads, one of the things you may have noticed is that some of your targets, you couldn't buy targeting at that same level. You couldn't go as deep. My daughter, who works in the auto business, she used to pre-pandemic, she used to be able to target Ford F-150 leaseholders whose lease was going to expire in three months. And then all of a sudden, one day she went in there and they said, You can't add any more money to this campaign, and you can't buy that level of deep anymore because it's not available due to privacy. And so what's happened is that we've had to pan the camera back. And so that's what we did. We pan the camera back, took a broader perspective, and built a platform that is built for today's world. So I've I've been in this space for a long time now and and uh have seen a lot in terms of all of all the changes that have happened. I mean, who would have ever thought 20 years ago that TV would become digital and digitize the way it has with connected television? It's it's it's really incredible all the changes that have happened in the industry and all the capabilities that are there for advertisers. It's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Yeah, so it's it's it is kind of a weird place to be, right? So right now we have more insight and more transparency that we ever had. It's just more regulated than it's ever been.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Right.

Contractors’ Attribution Frustrations

SPEAKER_00 5:51

And so it's a it's a very unique mixture. So I the contractors that I talk with, the majority of their issues, the core problem is that number one, I don't think contractors believe attribution. So they're like, well, that client said, yes, they called from Google Local Service Ads, but uh we were right next door at their neighbor's house yesterday working. You know, so there's all these we get in our heads so much about what should and could and how we're gonna do it. But honestly, at the end of the day, it what matters is collectively, where are our leads coming for from? What lead source played a part in the client? Choose me, that played a part in portion, is where I think contractors and especially the PE side of things, private equity side of things, they get really lost in, I call it the dash, you know. So when you have a gravestone, you know, there's the date you were born and the date you died, it's that dash in the middle is the whole life that you lived. And so I really feel like in marketing for for tracking, we forget the dash. We're like, well, where did it start and where did it end? But there is something about those middle touch points, those middle points that keep them engaged. And so sure, sure, point of acquisition is very important. Last point is always last touch point is always very important, but most businesses are still guessing, honestly, where the majority of their leads come from. Uh, yeah, I think this was probably Facebook, or I think I got this from direct mail when really there was multiple touch points. And then honestly, let's call it what it is. Digital companies love to take good credit for any lead that ever came through. Of course they do. I mean, somebody can walk into your office and they're like, well, that was an SEO lead.

Multi‑Touch Reality Beats Single Source

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Well, you hit on something hugely important there. And it's important to recognize that every CRM out there, any platform that's available today for any business to track your prospects or your new customers, they have this section called source, and it's only one spot. And that's kind of a fallacy that customers come to us from one source only. I'll give you a real-world example. Okay. Um, let's say you've got a customer of yours and they've got this great like video. It's like a little one-minute long video that talks about their capabilities, they're talking about themselves, and you start running ads for them on Meta, which includes Facebook and Instagram, and then they've got a really cool name. So you also run ads on Google. So if someone searches for the name, they show up first. Okay. So I'm scrolling through my Facebook and I see this ad. It's kind of cool. Someone's there talking. It stops me. I stop scrolling, but I don't watch the video. But now I have an awareness. Okay, I'm aware and you've got my attention. And so, but but I don't do anything. I don't click, I don't do anything, but now you've got my attention. About a week or so later, I'm scrolling through my Instagram feed and I actually watch the whole video and I check it out, and I'm like, huh. You know, these guys are right. You know, when when I, you know, switch over to my AC, I do need to get it checked out because there may be an issue, and uh, I'm gonna give these guys a call, but you know, that's not gonna be for two or three months. And then I go to turn on the system at the beginning of the season, and there's an issue, and I'm like, I pull my phone out, I'm like, what was the name of these guys? And I type the name into Google or what I remember it is, I click on that Google ad and I give them a call. Okay, now in the CRM, in the system of record, it's gonna say that I came from Google. Okay, that's what it's gonna say. But the reality is that we know that actually it came initially from Facebook, which was Facebook and Meta. All Google did was kind of close that deal. So the key here is that I didn't click on anything, and that becomes the issue because you see, the issue with digital marketing is that it has taught us that we invest dollars to get clicks, click leads to phone calls and leads. And so a logical business person will go backwards from leads and say, where do leads come from? Well, they come from a click or a call that comes from someone clicking through to something. But the reality is that the job of advertising is you invest dollars to get attention. Attention leads to awareness. And when people are aware, when they need our services, that's what gets them into our front door. And our front door today is on the internet, and that's what leads to calls and leads.

Attention First, Clicks Later

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah, I'm telling you, it is there's so much that goes into this that you know, it really when you look at cost, I think what costs you more in the long run is not having that insight, right? And not having the that viewpoint because bad attribution also helps you make bad decisions. You know, so when we're so narrow-minded to like, oh, this was the final point of acquisition, and we don't go at least investigate that whole customer cycle, I think it definitely bumps us around into um making some bad data-driven decision. You know, got money wasted on the wrong channels, good marketing, but bad tactics is always, you know, like this, this I the attribution here is not a hundred percent true. And I'm gonna tell you another thing that this might not set well with you. So I'm curious to see what you think here. Just because I can't measure it directly doesn't mean it doesn't work. And I say that because, like, you know, I will launch uh billboard campaigns. Let's use those. Those are fairly easy for most contractors to identify with. And people say, I put these billboards up, I didn't sell one system. And I'm like, you're lying. Because you don't know. Truth of the matter is it's really hard for someone to be driving down the road at 80 miles an hour to call you right then, slam on their brakes, pull over, call your number, and order a new system right then and there. So when you say it out loud, people are like, Well, no, nobody did that. Okay, so because collectively, just because you can't measure billboards one-to-one, there are other ways to tell if they are working.

Branding, Billboards, And Upper Funnel

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Right. Well, I I love the ones where they put QR codes on it and they expect to measure it by me driving by 55 miles an hour and taking a picture of it and and using the QR code, that's not gonna work either. But you're absolutely right. And I think the key that you're hitting upon is that, and where the view is from contractors is that listen, the people that are searching, that are down there in Google, that are doing a search, that they need someone today, I don't want to miss that business. Absolutely not. I don't want you to miss that business either. But when you put up things like billboards, when you run ads on Meta, and if you run things like connected television, whose job is not to sell today, but whose job is to make people aware of you, then what happens when they go to search, they may not remember your name, but when they look at the list of what shows up in your area, they're like, oh, I know those guys. And so the preference is there. That's the whole idea. When you build that awareness ahead of time, they have more of a preference to want to go with your company versus anyone else. And the other cool thing is that when you go up to that top of the funnel, guess what? There's less competition up there because everybody else wants to be down at the bottom, because everyone else only wants to do things that you can measure. They're not like you, Crystal, understanding that says, hey, everything you do, it may not be able to be measured perfectly, but the truth is it works.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yeah. And I uh again, I preach this quite often. Uh, because if you're a lemon seed client, you understand. I preach the the power of collective measuring. Um, you know, spending a percentage on your marketing and then looking at it as a whole and how did it work? Um, because again, back to that the real cost of bad attribution, you know, when you make decisions based off just feelings, so there has to be um a lot of factual things that you bring to the table. So I'm not saying to go rogue and be like, well, it's working because I said it's working. Again, there still should be an overall growth in both organic search, and then again, that should lead into more leads, which should lead into more revenue, right? So this is not it's not that far off. And then I think attribution should be telling you um, you know, first touch versus last touch versus multi-touch with people. Um, you know, just where again, I saw you on Facebook and then I got your direct mail, and then I called, searched your name and called your Google Business Profile. Well, for the majority of us, what we are gonna see in our CRMs is that they call Google Business Profile. You're not gonna be able to go back and say, Oh, that's right, that client also got my direct mail because honestly, it was probably all of those touch points that kept you kind of stirred up in their mind that made them actually call, actually dial the phone number or search the name. Um, but also your name being searched directly points out that you're doing a good job with mass media or just your overall brand cultivation. So, you know, there it's it's I wish it was more cut and dry. It's just not, right? But you know, also which channels are you using that are honestly just teeing you up, building your brand recognition versus which ones are like closing the deal? Which ones are you spending money and it's giving a one-to-one? Because when we need leads, we can juice those, right? And 100% pun intended. We can juice that up when we can't always, you know, go add a whole bunch of more billboards, right? So we have to learn to ourselves that billboards, marathon strategy, PPC or GLSA or or Facebook ads, sometimes can be that little, those sprints, right, instead of instead of a marathon. So um also why all channels are not meant to convert immediately.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

That's exactly right. And all channels have a different time frame that it takes from someone to go from that attention or awareness all the way through to a lead. So if you can look at, if you talk about not just first touch, but first time they saw an ad, and going all the way through, the data shows that each one has a different time frame there. And also remember, in this business that you specialize in, a lot of it is generated not necessarily like, hey, I want to do this. It's more like I have to do this because of an emergency or something that came up as well. I need to get some maintenance, or I tried to turn something on and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Right, right. And I need somebody to help me.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

That's exactly that's exactly right.

Sprints Vs Marathons In Channels

SPEAKER_00 16:17

I have lived the life of a contractor where my head's on fire, like I need leads, I need leads. Um, so I get it. So, you know, I really completely do understand that. So also like leads, this is gonna okay. I'm gonna prepare everybody. Y'all are not also may not like this statement because it's gonna be a little confusing, but leads, lead volume does not always equal revenue. So I was on a call yesterday and I was explaining to them the power behind lead aggregates like the Yelp and Angie and all of that of the world. I use that as kickers, right? That's that little shot that goes on top of my Italian margarita. Okay, like because sometimes I just need that little shot. It's not the best for me, it doesn't taste any better than my Italian margarita. But at the end of the day, I needed the shot to get me through the day, right? So I look at lead aggregation services like that. For the majority of the country, these are gonna be the lower tier, lower quality leads. But you know what? They are they are still a lead, right? So I tell everybody, you know, if you are really just trying to keep your trucks busy, you cannot roll them at all. And some of y'all are like, well, I'm not gonna run the lead if it's not a good lead. Sir, sit at home. That's fine. Leave the truck sitting still. Uh, but for those of you that are like, you know, let me get out here and get some leads rolling. Lead aggregates are, I think, at least you go in eyes wide open on those. Um, because it just is not always volume, does not equal revenue on leads.

Different Timelines And Emergencies

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Right. And you need to treat those leads differently. There's lots of businesses, uh, in fact, a most lead-type businesses have lead lead aggregators, everything from the private education space. So colleges, all financial services, including mortgages and things like that, have lead aggregators. And you typically put them into a separate bucket, if you will, because if you mix and match them together with your leads that come in organically or through your marketing and advertising, it'll ruin all your conversion rates. So you want to you want to make sure that you know and your team knows when they go in where this lead came from, uh, so that you can kind of keep your head, your wits about you in terms of that, because the conversion rates are going to be different. The revenue, the revenue per lead is gonna be different as well, too.

Lead Volume Isn’t Revenue

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yes. Uh again, expectations is probably a word that I should have mentioned a little heavier because you really have to have a good, clear understanding of how this lead is supposed to work. Right. So every lead, every tactic, so you know, I marketing is the sum of all of your advertising tactics, right? So marketing is the big umbrella. There's all these tactics underneath it, but just like with your own children, you know, but you know, that you have to have different expectations for what they're good at, how fast they move, right? So um I think that's really important. And then some sources are gonna bring you lower quantity of leads, but a higher value, right? Higher value person. So again, we don't know that because we still right now, most of us have a very sub or surface level view of where these leads are coming from. So I thought that was a really unique point to make there. Like, really, just because you're not bringing in a ton of leads from these sources, it might be very high quality leads. And then another thing is um attribution relies heavily on KPIs too. Um, because I want to know, like, I like to look at my contractor CRM and I'll be able to see, okay, we got tons of calls for your direct mail, but why were you not able to book but 30% of them? So is there literally a tactic audience problem? Did we mail to the wrong people? Did we, or did your CSR have an off week?

Handling Aggregator Leads Separately

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Well, the other thing to think about as well is that even though people called from that direct mailer, we don't know what other ads they were exposed to. That's the other thing to remember. The marketing world today is very messy because when people come through our front door through that last click or even that first click, Google knows what ads they saw that Google showed them. Uh, Facebook knows what ads that they showed them, but neither one of them knows about the direct mail. So this is an imperfect world that we're living in. Nobody has absolute information. So, what's important to think about when we use that direct mail is a great example, meaning why didn't it convert as well as we thought it should have, or why wasn't the revenue as great. What we have to do is kind of step back away from that click and think about there's another metric that actually measures the attention or the awareness. And it's available in all ad reports, but most people don't look at it because it's kind of confusing. But that metric is impressions. And so if we think about it, we think about leads, and then we go back from leads to clicks, and that's where most people stop. That's where most people stop, is at the at the clicks. But if you go back one step further and you look at impressions, and now you start to look at everything and you count, okay, I did a direct mail drop of 30,000. Okay, well, that was 30,000 impressions over the course of like one day that it hit, because you can estimate the delivery date. And so now you start to instead of just looking at clicks, you step back and you look at impressions. Now you can actually see what's going on in the universe all at the same time. And that's that's kind of the secret, if you will, that we do with all of our larger, bigger advertisers. And guess what? Before there was digital advertising, before there was the click, all of these huge brands that are out there, all the auto manufacturers, all of the food companies, they used sophisticated measurement that was all based upon impressions. So there was no click in the middle. They went straight from impressions direct to leads and direct to sales. That's how they did it. When the click showed up from digital marketing, everybody forgot about the impression. And guess who that who that helps? All of the publishers like Google. They're the ones who win at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Well, I'll say this. I am known for saying this one statement. Not one time had I been able to make payroll off of clicks and impressions. But I say that because so many times we are not trying to measure revenue. But really, you need all of these characters to have a good play on the stage, right? So impressions or important are is impressions are important for overall scope of how many people were impacted by your ad. Clicks mean how many people took an action. And then revenue is how many, how well was your team able to handle that click is really what that means to me. That's exactly right. Again, true visibility to the entire picture. But contractors specifically in home services, we go all the way down just to the revenue. We only care right now what made us revenue today. And I get it, I really do. I understand having to write those payroll checks. I get it. But what I will tell you is it's those that look up and out that start getting a better understanding of marketing as a whole.

Impressions As The Missing Metric

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Well, that's right. And it's important to recognize that the revenue that you got today most likely came from advertising that you did over the last three months. It has nothing to do with the ads that ran today. But as a business owner, that's you're only looking at what did I spend this month versus the money that came in. Totally, totally get that. But it's important to recognize I always call it the Super Bowl effect. Now, you advertise on the Super Bowl, you're going to get a massive number of people that come to your website, but sales are going to continue for weeks upon weeks and sometimes months later, just from that one ad. Now, most of the ads you run are not at the level of a Super Bowl, but each ad has that what we call the carryover and direct response. We used to call it drag. It drags over from one day to the next. Somebody sees the ad, it's just like that example I gave you before. They see the ad, it gets their attention, and it puts a little memory in the back of their mind. And they say to themselves, hey, when I need this, these are the people I'm going to go look for. And that's the key is the revenue that came in this month is from the marketing that you did in all the prior months. But you hit on something very important, which is all your revenue didn't come from advertising. In fact, there's a component of your revenue that's based upon how many trucks you have out there that have your name and phone number on them. If you have a larger fleet of trucks, there's a larger percentage of your revenue that actually is going to come from people just seeing the trucks on the road. Exposure, mobile billboards. That's exactly right. So everything is part of that. Um, so not all your leads are going to be coming from your advertising. A percentage will, you know, and that's the key.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Oh no, I love it. And you know, I wrote down that drag piece. So again, it's really training our minds and our thought processes around our marketing structure and strategy to be patient and yet risky, move quickly, yet methodically. So, like it is it is a constant thing. I tell everybody, like, marketing to me is, and you and I kind of hit on this in the beginning, like our clients want that little bump, that little like injection of a lead that we're addicted to things that generate leads really, really quickly. Um, but that drag of, you know, shelf life, I call it too. So like magnets and things like that, exactly. And your trucks driving around, all of those have a very long customer life cycle. And when you have a track, like I have a tracking number on some of the magnets that I did for my family's company, y'all, like 10 years ago, and they still produce revenue because people see them like so and people are like, uh, who does that stuff? Well, listen, I'll do it until not one phone call comes through.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

That's right.

Clicks Don’t Make Payroll, Revenue Does

SPEAKER_00 26:08

I will track it until I can't track it anymore because I like to know every league. But it leads me into kind of our final little talking point here, but like is a mindset shift, right? So maybe stop asking where you should spend more and start looking at your data as a whole, impressions, clicks, length of time that they've been out there, um, your team's ability to convert those types of leads and what your what your uh average tickets look like on those leads. And some of you aren't advanced enough in your visibility into your CRM to really make that make make that work for you just yet, but you should be working towards that. So those of you that are like smaller contractors, you're like, I have no idea how to get all of this set up. That that is the biggest part of the challenge is getting getting all of your connectors connected uh so that you have true visibility. But and then start asking what's actually driving brand awareness and revenue. And then you can really start pushing and pulling money into right spots, but attribution is definitely not about perfection. Also, I do have to tell people this attribution uh marketing strategy is rarely, rarely ever going to be. I wrote it out, I hit go, and I never had to hit pause or stop. That never, it just never happens because you know what does happen? Weather patterns change, political climates change, financing rates change, availability of equipment changes, your team changes. Like I can name a whole lot more changes than I can constance. And so marketing is one of those things that attribution gives you a whole lot more insight than just going off of your gut. But it's so that you can make these pivots when you need to make them and you can ride things out when you need to ride it out.

Drag And Carryover Effects

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Well, it's it's all about first off uh being humble with the idea that there's always more going on, and you hit on that. There's more going on uh that we don't know than we do know because there's a lot that's going on in the mind of the consumer, there's a lot happening in terms of sentiment. Is this something that absolutely positively needs to get fixed today? Or can I wait on this a little bit longer? So that that's kind of that first component is to is to understand that that piece that we need to step back from that. But also the key with this is that there is no perfect answer. But what we want as business owners, and we always tell our customers this is that I want to be less wrong this month than I was last month. Because if you start to think as a business owner that you've got some formula that's perfect, well, just wait. Yeah, give it three months, it'll change. You're you're living in an environment where you're buying ads on platforms that are publicly traded companies and they keep changing the game there. So the key is you you need to always be looking at it, but not only do you have to dig in and try to examine every single lead and try to figure out exactly where that came from because it was worth so much money, because you get in too deep, you can't see the forest for the trees. You need to pan a camera back, take that big view and say, I just want to be less wrong today than I was yesterday. And that's really the key with measurement is always trying to look at the big picture so that we can keep our eye on the ball of growing the business.

Mindset Shift To Holistic View

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Absolutely. And I'm gonna tell you when your eye, when you look up from some of that, it really does open your perspective of things and just getting your mindset correctly and getting the tools in place that you need um to be able to know what's actually working and what's not working. So those are also super important pieces. Well, here's a couple of things um that I kind of took away um from today's call. Um, these are my notes. I'm going back to my notes. I'm like, let me go read all the things I wrote down. But um, you know, Jeff, like you don't need, I don't think you, I don't think people have to have so much one-to-one correspondence, right? We need a better understanding of the entire customer journey, the entire journey, all the touch points involved in that customer doing business with us. I don't think um that you have to beat yourself up every time something's not working. It's not that you made a bad choice, it's that it has a season and then you can move around. But you do need to have intentional tracking and consistency. And you do need to know things because knowing beats guessing every single time. That's right. That's kind of what I'm taking away today is open your mind a little bit to how you are reviewing leads. Open your mind a little bit to that it doesn't necessarily that this was a wrong decision, it's just time to change. And then also become an all-knower of what's working, like work hard to get to where you really know what's working and what's not working. What is some advice that you would give? Let's say it's a smaller contractor, someone that's really just starting to be able to care enough about KPIs and attribution points and things like that. What's some advice that you have?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Well, I would say is that, you know, as you're looking at your leads each month and you're tracking, you're looking at your leads because you've got something to show in your leads every day, and you're looking at your clicks every day. I my biggest piece of advice is just add one other column to that spreadsheet, which would be impressions. And I would look at my impressions every day. And what I would what I would do is I would get to a position, yes, I I I I I want to see my leads come in every day because I got to make payroll. I totally get all that. But when you're a smaller business, you have to wear multiple hats in the business. And one of the hats you have to wear is from a strategy perspective. And when you put that hat on, you want to take that big picture look and you want to look at what is the relationship with your daily impressions and your daily clicks. And what you're gonna see is that the days when clicks are high, impressions may not be high. They may have been high a couple of days to a week before. So the secret to figuring out where your leads are coming from is you need to go back to those days when you had higher impressions that then led to clicks several days or a week later. That's kind of the secret. So that would be my advice is to put on that hat and pull your chair back. Yeah, don't look so deep. Because all you're gonna do is you're gonna focus on clicks and you're gonna end up investing in the same place where every single competitor is, where nobody knows you from Adam, and you're not gonna get you're gonna get clicked on, but nobody's gonna call you. They're gonna call your competitor because they saw their ad on Facebook or they happen to see a TV ad of theirs.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

So they know them better, they know them better.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

That's exactly it. And the truth is they don't really know them, they feel like they do.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Yep, yep. They feel like they do because they've seen them more, they've interacted with that brand more.

Embrace Imperfection And Pivot Fast

SPEAKER_01 33:13

That's exactly right. So, and that's the key is that push your chair back, get that broader perspective when you're wearing that hat. I totally understand. Sometimes you got to get into the details because you need money in the bank. Yeah, as a business owner, you got to wear multiple hats.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

That's that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I will tell you, you know, for those of you that don't know, Limit Seed Marketing is a branding and strategy agency that puts creativity in helping you build a complete overall marketing strategy and a unique brand. And so those things are how we that brand piece is how we become more familiar so that attribution becomes easier and better. And honestly, we are more recognizable than your competitors. And so it really is about having a balanced approach to marketing. Well, Jeff, I know that your program is for a very people that are running large amounts of revenue, but just in case someone wanted to reach out to you for anything, how could someone get in contact with you?

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, the best way is to go to provalytics.com. Uh, the best way to get there is to go get prova. That's g-e-t-p-o-v-a.com. Prova means proof in Italian. So it's all about getting proof that what you're doing is working. They can also find me on LinkedIn as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you guys all for being with us today. It has been a fantastic episode. Guys, get visibility, build that brand, and really own your market. If you love everything about From the Yellow Chair, leave us a review. Let us know how we how this episode was. We'd love to know that. But Jeff, thank you so much for your time here with me today talking through this. I really appreciate it. And for those of you that are listening, uh, my fantastic listeners, we will catch you next time. Have a good day.