Code with Jason
Code with Jason
250 - Nick Schwaderer
This podcast episode features a lively conversation between Jason Swett and Nick Schwaderer, covering a range of topics from Thanksgiving traditions to Ruby conferences, personal philosophies, and even the idea of starting a long-format, freeform podcast. They discuss their approaches to cooking turkey, the quirks of different Thanksgiving side dishes across the U.S., and the experience of celebrating American holidays abroad. The conversation then shifts to Sin City Ruby and Rails World, with Nick reflecting on how conferences create strong community bonds. They also delve into personal growth, handling adversity, and the importance of resilience in career and life.
Life hasn't been the same since the pandemic. Instead of working at an office around people all day, like we used to, most of us now work remotely from home, in isolation and solitude. We sit and we stare at the cold blue light of our computer screens toiling away at our meaningless work, hour after hour, day after day, month after month, year after year. Sometimes you wonder how you made it this far without blowing your fucking brains out. If only there were something happening out there, something in the real world that you could be a part of, something fun, something exciting, something borderline, illegal, something that gives you a sense of belonging and companionship, something that helps you get back that zest for life that you have forgotten how to feel because you haven't felt it in so long. Well, ladies and gentlemen, hold on to your fucking asses. What I'm about to share with you is going to change your life. So listen up.
Speaker 1:I, jason Sweat, host of the Code with Jason podcast. I'm putting on a very special event. What makes this event special? Perhaps the most special thing about this event is its small size. It's a tiny conference, strictly limited to 100 attendees, including speakers. This means you'll have a chance to meet pretty much all the other attendees at the conference, including the speakers. The other special thing about this conference is that it's held in Las Vegas. This year it's going to be at the MGM Grand, and you'll be right in the middle of everything on the Las Vegas strip.
Speaker 1:You got bars, restaurants, guys dressed up like Michael Jackson. What other conference do you think you can go to, dear listener? Or you can waltz into a fancy restaurant wearing shorts and a t-shirt, order a quadruple cheeseburger and a strawberry daiquiri at 7 30 am and light up a cigarette right at your table. Well, good luck, because there isn't one Now. As if all that isn't enough, the last thing I want to share with you is the speakers. And remember, dear listener, at this conference, you won't just see the speakers up on the stage, you'll be in the same room with them, breathing the same air. Here's who's coming Irina Nazarova.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, chris Oliver oh yeah, jason Charnes, fafridum Dumlao Prathmasiva, fido Von Zastrow, ellen Rydal Hoover and me. There you have it, dear listener, to get tickets to Sin City Ruby 2025, which takes place April 10th and 11th at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, go to sincityrubycom. Now on to the episode. Hey, today I'm here once again with Nick Schwaderer. Nick, welcome.
Speaker 2:Hey Jason, how's it going? It's good to be back. I don't know, has it been a year Is?
Speaker 1:this how we do it now. It's been a while. How old is your son? My son's? 10 months old. 10 months old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at least 10 months.
Speaker 1:I feel like you maybe haven't been on the podcast since before your son was born.
Speaker 2:I wonder if there was a thing where it's like I'm going dark because I did it with the Ruby and Rails podcast too right. So, like last year, I said you know, to Elise I was like I won't be here for a while, and then it was even like a month or two after I came back from paternity, um, and I just started popping up on there again. So I guess the last thing I did was, uh, did a rails world co like like podcast live, had a few people, had robbie russell on, if you know robbie nice.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah well, it's good to see you again. Um, the world is more fun and festive with nick schwatter in it, and so I'm glad to see you resurfacing, at least from my perspective I'm writing that down.
Speaker 2:Uh, folks, even though it's recorded, the world is more fun and festive with nick schwatter in it and I am going to go on ety and I'm going to find someone who does embroidery or crochet, whatever it's called. It's cross stitch. We'll get that framed. Put that on my wall with like Jason Sweat, because it's in the record, please. I thought you're gonna say it's more fun and festive because it's the day before Thanksgiving, but then you said with Nick Schwader in it, so thank you, jason. Um, you know, you said day before.
Speaker 1:Thanksgivingroeder in it. So thank you, jason. You know you said day before Thanksgiving we're talking about turkey. Just before this I want to make sure to get that in You're smoking a turkey. So even though you live in Northern Ireland, you're still celebrating Thanksgiving, even though it's an American holiday, and it sounds like you've there's there's other people who are celebrating it with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. So if you haven't heard a Nick Schroeder or Jason Sweat podcast before, if you're new to the game maybe you just got into Ruby we can't not talk about food. I think we have some episodes that we're only like the soup podcast, oh yeah, so we can't not talk about it. I literally finished carving a turkey um 90 seconds before getting on this call, like it was tight, because the time it went out and I wanted to get done and my wife called me slice it thin this year, like yeah, but you can only slice it so thin or else you'll lose the ah, never mind, and I'm like greasy and slicing but, by the way, this this was bizarre from my perspective, because it's 10 am my time and you get on the call and you're like sorry, I was carving a turkey.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah, so no, what we're doing here is it used to be me and myself and my wife and her sister but a lot of people in Europe, right, they watch all American movies and TV shows. Friends, right, friends was big here, so they know and they, they kind of some of them secretly want to be in. But you, I think people can do it, but you kind of need an american sponsor. You know it'd be like you wouldn't do whatever. Chinese new year, yeah, like you know, but maybe people do. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know what's appropriate it'd be more fun, way more fun, to have like an actual Chinese person, to be like. This is how you do Chinese New Year.
Speaker 2:Well, like if I had friends who observe Chinese New Year and know all about it and stuff, and they're like, hey, do you want to come over? I'm like, yeah, show me the way. I think I've been to it Right, like hosted by, like community groups and stuff, like in the towns I'm in where they have these things, but but yeah, so, so the three of us have been doing it for a number of years. When we lived in England my wife and I would have just done it with us, but now some of her sister's friends, one of them's from Philly, so we do a joint one. So we combined about four years ago and we did two at mine and now we've done two at theirs.
Speaker 2:And it's great because I have another from America, american, who knows everything and she's really good and every region has its own sides, right. So she'll do a bunch of the sides. My wife and sister and I will do a couple of sides and I'll do the turkey. And what's great is everyone's like, wow, nick did so much work, he did the turkey. I'm like I put something in a warm container and then sliced it. But sure, there's a bunch of money and crap and work, but it's like a few. It's like brewing beer. It's a few very important steps. So, um, yeah, we do it together. It's, it's a really great time. Throw on some football. Football starts later here in the day, so it's not, you know, midday. Uh, we both have babies this year, so that'll be interesting. My baby's being watched. Their baby's quite new, but no, yeah, it's honestly one of the most fun things and I think we'll have eight adults together.
Speaker 2:So this year I got a turkey that was a bit smaller I always get way too big a turkey because I think bigger is better and I got one bronze turkey as opposed to white, so I think that'll be richer, dark meat. I researched what I think is the best farm in Northern Ireland for turkeys. The farmer himself brought it over in this amazing box, oh wow, and talked to me for like a half an hour. And here, normally when you buy turkeys, they're all picked up on December 23rd because everyone has it on Christmas, right, but there's a growing numbers of people doing it for Thanksgiving. So if you talk to any local butcher, they'll have five or six turkeys they end up selling for Thanksgiving because people do it right. So, yeah, I have to take leave, obviously Thursday, friday and I work for an e-commerce company, so Black Friday is like our biggest day of the year.
Speaker 2:And then I take it off. Shopify, by the way, it's a joke. But yeah, no, I'm buzzing for Thanksgiving. So for me it's 3.40, 4.40, 8 pm and I'll just have a few minutes of work after this call, wrap up some bugs and then I'm just a free man till till monday. What's your, what's your? So tell me about your thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Like when I grew up, in montana we didn't do turkey, except about a third of the time we do, like prime rib or something. But because we didn't really, we decided we didn't like turkey so much, which I understand nobody really does. Yeah, I never. Everyone says they like my turkey and I keep thinking, like it just is a dry, even if you do it, great, but like the salmonella risk. So you have to hit a certain temp and it's so big and you know, I don't know, but it's, it's easy to serve a group, it's a treat and I enjoy cooking it. But like what's your? And I also want to hear your mission, I bet I wonder if there's michigan sides you know what I'm saying. Like is there green bean casserole? Like that's very big in my region. Do you do a weird side? Like? I was looking at a map of this the other day. What's? How do you do your thanksgivings?
Speaker 1:or or if you do it, oh yeah, we do, and I don't know if any of our sides are unusual, because I don't know anything else. So I'm curious if any of these will be like what you do mashed potatoes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which ones are like you did as a kid, or your wife did as a kid, so you brought it into your family. Which ones did you pick up Stuff like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So first I got to say I want to try to expand your mind, Nick, to turkey possibilities. I think it actually can get better than you think. I learned a few years ago some turkey secrets.
Speaker 2:All right, I need to know because I've heard of deep frying. I've brined, I've, I do it to the temp and I you know 73.889 celsius is the safe, or 165 fahrenheit um, I do. I've done it smaller, right, because I said before the call, smaller bird probably easier to get juicier um. And today, since I did it the day before, I was able to let it really rest because, like when you're serving it live, you don't want to get too cold, that it's you know, but you can let it cool to where your hand, instead of piercing it right and it's the juice is really locked in. Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Let me know your turkey secrets go okay, so this is just a poultry secret really, um. But dry brining um makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2:I've heard of this. Yeah, so like a rub, like with salt, and that locks in the moisture or something right well.
Speaker 1:So here's my understanding. Let's, let's see if I even know. Um, so obviously, when you cook meat, it loses some of its moisture to evaporation, yeah, um. And when you salt the meat beforehand, um, yeah, I don't remember. I don't remember why this works, um, but if you, if you salt, like even just a chicken breast or something like that, um, before you cook it, like, it retains so much more of the moisture. And with a chicken, you can dry, brine it the day before. So I usually cook a whole chicken at a time, so I'll generously salt the entire surface of the chicken with kosher salt, like way more salt than you would think, granulated or like like the kosher sea salt, like flakes or like diamond, diamond crystal brand kosher salt flakes normal tabley salt.
Speaker 1:Looking kosher salt no, no, because the table salt is like the tiny cubes. This is like flakes. Oh, flakes, flakes, sorry sorry, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah and so for chicken, you can do it like 24 hours before, and that's enough time to like get fully absorbed With the turkey, though you have to do it several days before, of course, because it's so much bigger.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this is related, but I saw where they're cooking like a really juicy fish and you encase it and use a pile of salt and egg white and you like whip up a foam and you put it around it like kind of a plaster and then it dries in the oven and seals it in. I don't know if that's quite the same, because you don't do it Interesting, yeah, the salt seems to block the moisture from going out. Maybe OK, but does your chicken taste salty?
Speaker 1:No, whoa.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it tastes like you know. It tastes right. It doesn't taste like it's missing salt. But it doesn't taste overly salty at all. And again, like use way more salt than you would think, but like never is like man, this is salty that's, I might have to try that.
Speaker 2:Actually it's a little late, it's about a few hours and a few days late for this year, but I would. I would definitely try that for for next year. Do you, do you do a turkey? Will you be doing a turkey tomorrow?
Speaker 1:I personally will not. I'm sure there will be. Turkey had at thanksgiving, but I'm not cooking it. I've been assigned mashed potatoes, so that's what I'll be bringing.
Speaker 2:So when I said you, maybe I should have specified your Thanksgiving, not you personally. So for your Thanksgiving meal, turkey will exist somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one last little turkey secret I've been using for the. The last couple times I cooked a turkey, I didn't do it in the oven, I used an electric turkey roaster. And I'm usually like you know I turn my nose up at like gimmicky kitchen gadgets and stuff like that, but this actually like I cooked it way faster and I think it cooked it better. Is this like?
Speaker 2:a turkey air fryer.
Speaker 1:I don't know what an air fryer is really. But it's kind of like a crock pot. Oh okay, cool, yeah. Anyway, you asked about Thanksgiving sides and all that. So we got mashed potatoes. Yep, corn off the cob, usually okay.
Speaker 2:Green bean casserole oh yes, sweet potato pie yeah, what's the difference between sweet potato pie and what some people call yams with the mushrooms on top? Is that different?
Speaker 1:I don't know anything about the mushrooms on top.
Speaker 2:Or mushrooms, marshmallows, oh marshmallows Got it. I think that's the same thing.
Speaker 1:But yam and sweet potato, that's like a misnomer thing. Like buffalo and bison, yeah, like yams. Are that like African root vegetable?
Speaker 2:And we call them sweet potatoes, yams. Is that what we do exactly? Yeah, uh, and buffalo are the african animal like as well, like or do we call, I don't know, yeah, we, we call our.
Speaker 1:We have bison in america, but we call them buffalo sometimes. Yeah, yeah, um, let's see side, side, sides.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, cranberry sauce do you get the like what's it the ocean spray can, and then like that kind of thing, or do you like? I just remember you get the ocean spray. It's the only time I bought anything that said from that company and it would be that jellified uh, cranberry sauce right yeah, I like that stuff.
Speaker 1:I remember one thanksgiving we had like three varieties of cranberry sauce, it was that and like a homemade version, maybe like another homemade version, um, so yeah, I think our sides are pretty standard from the sounds of it. How about you any anything different that you do?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, that that sounds about right. Um, oh, let me just, oh, of course, stuffing. That's like so each state's most popular thanksgiving side in michigan, now, I don't know. I just literally googled this. The data is not, uh, peer-reviewed. It says rolls. Interesting, yeah, I don't. Do you know people like have a roll? At their table, like where you have the little basket and you have a like cloth inside of it. You know there's the rolls and you get the butter and all that. I don't know if you'd have a roll though.
Speaker 1:I mean somebody just buys a bag of. For us it's usually that. What is it? Hawaiian, something or other rolls.
Speaker 2:I forget the name of it so the the one for montana, where I grew up, I don't think should count. It says turkey gravy like gravy is just an accompaniment, like you have. Maybe you don't do gravy yourself, right, but we fucking do. Yeah, um, north dakota, uh, fruit salad, oh my god. I see the overlap though, because some of my iowa family and it likes maybe border minnesota and north dakota. I remember fruit salads like with the oh weird things with jello and fruits and cream oh yeah, we have that yeah, uh, and you know what.
Speaker 2:It's actually all right, it kind of balances, but yeah, so you got Indiana and Ohio, green beans mashed potato and Wisconsin and Illinois yeah, anything really weird. Though Collard greens that'd be the South Never had a collard green Cornbread dressing, whatever. That is Hash brown casserole in West Virginia.
Speaker 1:I kind of want to try that now. That sounds good.
Speaker 2:I like any cast. I don't even know what a casserole in west virginia. I kind of want to try that now. That sounds good. I like any calf. I don't even know what a casserole really is, but anything that's a casserole. But then alaska stuffed mushrooms, so there, that's the weird one I can find. So I'd have that. I would. I'd feel like that's not traditional, but um, it's that america is unlike europe. Right, europe, it's so ancient in each place, even though there's different political maps over a thousand two thousand years. But you get these really niche things like languages and all this. But america has a couple diverse things and I think thanksgiving sides is probably one of them. Um, yeah, do people have like I bet there? I think there's a part of the country that actually has a salad, like a green leaf salad, on their table. I just couldn't find the data. Listeners write in Jason Sweat, the podcast forrealorg. Yeah, jason at codewithjasoncom.
Speaker 1:Write in with your Thanksgiving sides. If you eat something that we haven't mentioned yet, we want to hear about it.
Speaker 2:What I can't remember is what we do for Christmas in America. Is it just whatever a meal Because it's so big? Here, this is where they do the turkey right. So big Christmas dinner, you have all these. You have Boxing Day the day after and then you have the table popper things that you pop and the little hats, but I just don't remember. I think again in Christmas it was just a month later prime rib again, because we do prime rib for Thanksgiving. I think we usually do ham for Christmas.
Speaker 2:Oh, ham, yeah, that's the way. So yeah, turkey and ham here would be really really big.
Speaker 1:And the sides are kind of the same as Thanksgiving. Yeah, it's just another big meal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say they're too close, but I feel like in America Thanksgiving is the buffer to save you from too early of a Christmas, whereas here it's like earlier and earlier you see the Christmas stuff. I swear there's a certain type of chocolates people buy for Christmas in a tub and you start seeing them in August and you're like this is not okay and you start seeing Christmas decorations pop up in maybe October, september in a store. It's too early. What's a shame is like it makes me a Scrooge, because now it's the 27th of November and I should be fully festive, but like I've been resisting for so long, I'm like it starts the day after thanksgiving day after thanksgiving exactly black friday.
Speaker 2:Hello, like people know about black friday but they don't know it's a thanksgiving related event. By the way, listeners, sorry if you hear my son, um, in the background, but I'm I'm a father since I last spoke to do so yeah, congratulations again on that.
Speaker 1:Um, sadly it prevented you for from coming to sin city, ruby uh but hey, it's happening again. I don't know when you're going to be travelable again, but um, happening again in april 10th and 11th, 2025.
Speaker 2:April 10th and 11th april 10th and 11th 2025, dude, I think I think that's. That's amazing. So you've gotten that. You probably talked about loads, but like you've got that on lock because I remember talking to you on and off the air around the first one, that's such a big thing for a human being to do what you did and I'm not just saying that because I'm on your podcast right like I could never do it. I mean, I think I could do a little thing in Belfast, like book a hotel and a bar and a caterer, but like you know, and like hopefully get 30 people you know 20 people from the area but like you did a thing like in and the first two years, tropicana, right, yeah, first times. Where are you going now? Cause they literally said, after sin city, ruby 2, this casino has maxed out all it can do.
Speaker 1:It's peaked, it's had some city ruby 2 so we have to close the casino forever and tear it down. Yeah, it's been. Where it's going to be next time. Yeah, it's going to be at the mgm. Grand holy crap.
Speaker 2:So you're going with the like the big named things, right? I don't even know, because, like, here's the thing I feel like when you do the first event, you warm the cash. So, for example, they announced Rails World 3 is going to be in Amsterdam and the first thing I said is, ooh, that should be really nice, because they warmed the cash with the first year. So Amanda Perino and folks would know who to talk to for this catering, for that venue, for this. Have all the names, have all the emails. Hey, I'm back, pricing right. So, like, the cash is warmed. So there's so much.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of work, but you've done it. So, like for for rails world three, and amanda lives there sorry, amanda, I'm talking about you a lot if you're listening um, but I'm like, oh, that's such a great idea and I imagine for you, with Sensitive Ruby doing it twice at the Tropicana. You've had the names, the emails, the costings. Was it maybe not as hard as the first one, but was it a little harder doing this third one because you had to start again with who you're talking to? Or are they affiliated? Maybe Is there a group of casinos and you're talking to the same person, or how's?
Speaker 1:that work? Yeah, good question. Um, a lot is easier now, um, just for the reasons you said, like we've done it before, and it's just easier for that reason. Um, getting speakers gets easier and easier, in fact, like it's. It's like painful because more people want to speak at Sin City Ruby now than I can.
Speaker 1:I can have speak, which I guess is kind of the normal case for conferences, but it took a little bit to get to that place. And now I have to like exclude people. The first year I had to like go out and find people. Now I have to like tell people no and I have to just like not invite people back, not because I don't want to, but because there's just limited spots, you know, and we're doing even fewer speakers this year. Actually, I think we did like 12 or so speakers the first two years. This time we're doing only seven or eight, eight speakers. I think I can't remember Two days, yeah, two days, yeah, yeah, because this year we really want to make the schedule not too tight, because we want to give people plenty of time to, for example, go out and have lunch and maybe they want to have a two or three hour lunch or something like that Last time I was late for my own conference, coming back for lunch and they had to start without me.
Speaker 2:I think that's interesting because you already weren't uber tight in the first year because I remember you gave me you didn't specify speaking time, but you gave us an hour to get it done. I think there was one person who had to be kind of sped along but, like, for me, that allowed me to do very comfortably because you know it's like well, you could do a 30 minute talk and they have a half hour to chill. But I allowed me to do very comfortably because you know it's like well, you could do a 30 minute talk, then they have a half hour to chill. But I ended up doing a 45 minute two-part talk with an intermission, right, like, and that was really fun. It wasn't recorded and I still maintained like sorry, I've spoke maybe a dozen times and that was my favorite, right, because I got to just be fun and festive, like you say, um and and I think I really appreciate you saying that, because I think more conferences are thinking about this you know some of the really big like nonprofit org things. You see where they're like making hack.
Speaker 2:I think didn't RubyConf like have a hacker day, you know like, so that's just doing things that aren't just filling every minute of people being together with speakers. So I find it interesting, if you're doing seven or eight over, but two days, so you could have three or four one day and I could really pay attention to three or four people, and then if I'm like, you know, one or two in the morning, one afternoon, and are you, are you gonna? Are you thinking of just leaving the time open? Are you going to? You know, like I've seen things where people like can self-organize things but let people know they're doing it too.
Speaker 2:And what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so each morning last year, each morning we did this thing and I plan to do it again. I call it forced socialization, so we get people into random groups of like five people or so, um, and give them some prompts, like say your name, where you work and where you live, or something like that, and that kind of gets people talking. Um, and that was great. Like we had to like we had to like you know, people didn't want to stop, it seemed like. So we had to like make people stop, so that was great. And then in the afternoon of the second day last year we had some arm wrestling and that was great. My wife, nikki, arm wrestled two gentlemen and defeated them both. And then me and Obi Fernandez arm arm wrestled and that was pretty close. I ultimately yeah, yeah, um, I was ultimately victorious. And then I I arm wrestled justin bowen and he's kind of ripped and he beat me he beat me good I bet justin, if you're listening, I bet you're secretly ripped, definitely, or not secretly.
Speaker 2:Not like you wouldn't think he is, he's just a very nice person, by the way in my life, 10 out of 10,. Love the return of Obi, not that he went away but he kept doing the rails way.
Speaker 2:Every year or two he was just everywhere and then he does a lot of other things but then all of a sudden, sin city ruby, whoa, rails world. But probably because after they saw sin city ruby, they're like we have to get him at rails world. Did you see? We got to keep up with sin city ruby. Um, I don't know what is if his talks were the same or similar, but, um, I really, really I remember listening to him on some podcasts like a decade ago, and he's around for a lot of history.
Speaker 2:There's just names that were like, really big when I did my ruby archaeology and you don't see them a lot, and then when you see one, come back. You know, think of like, uh, chad fowler, or I mean all these people who you don't realize were in the Ruby and Rails world, like Paul Graham, dave Thomas, shoot, whatever you think, when Tim Ferriss and Derek Sivers were around for Rails comps and Ruby comps. Yeah, like all these people who like, were like in this and went out and did different things. And so Obi, I always thought of one of these like titans of the historical Rails and Ruby world and he never like fully like left it.
Speaker 2:Or Jose Valim, right, he's still the number seven all-time Rails committer and he hasn't committed in 11 years, wow. So if you go to contributorsrubyonrarailsorg you'll see he's number seven, far and away number seven, and that just goes to show. But he's still around, like doing you know his projects, yeah, but like you know so. So I thought of ob is kind of a name who's still around. But then all of a sudden you see him on all these comps and you get really excited. I imagine I didn't get to meet him, um, personally, but, um, I'm sure it was great having him at your conference and spending time, oh yeah yeah and and I'll say this just as kind of a pitch for sin city ruby like it's a max of 100 people.
Speaker 1:The first year it was like 40 people, second year was like 80 people, but we're capping it at 100 still, and so it's small enough that you can meet almost everybody else. And I had never met Obi in person until Sin City Ruby 24. Me and Obi actually worked together 10 years prior to that in 2014, 2014 and 2015 and so we had like talked but and we had like kind of an internet friendship, but we had never met in person. So that was. That was when we first got to meet in person. And, like you know, I'm sure a lot of people got to meet Obi because you were just you were in there with 80 people in a single room. It's like, if you want to walk over to obi and be like hey, uh, you know you you can do that. Um, and this time we're gonna have some, uh, some heavy hitters there. Chris oliver from go rails is gonna be there, so I was pretty happy about that. Jason Charns from the Remote Ruby podcast Chris is on that podcast too.
Speaker 1:Irina Nazarova, ceo of Evil Martians. Alan Reidelhoover, fido Von Zastrow I'm just trying to mention everybody. I'm actually going to be giving a talk this year, which I haven't in the past. Oh yeah, freedom Dumlao is going to be giving a talk, and my friend Pravna Shiva I don't know if she actually has given a talk at a conference before, but she I apologize if I'm getting that wrong, but she reached out to me like last year or maybe it was before this year, since City Ruby, asking to speak, and I said it's all filled up, but I'd love to consider you for next year. And so she and I talked. She's been on the podcast, we kind of became Internet friends a little bit, and so I invited her to this conference as well, because I think it's always fun when you get to see like not just the household names that people know about already, but like get to get new people in the mix too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's the best because I remember when I was a first time speaker and it's you know, and I hope, I guess, for those listening, if you ever, if you're like me, and early in my career for the first couple of years, I consume a lot of Ruby content. I lived remotely in the country so I wasn't around a lot of Rubies, so I would listen to a lot of podcasts. I'd watch a lot of talks online or whatever, and you'd almost magic up a barrier between yourself and those podcasts and talks Like those are the good people. I think there's probably a lot. You could give a lot of talks and not be very good at coding. Um, you know, or go on podcasts like don't think that, first of all, and second, um, it's just, you know, talk to people like you just had someone messaged you and you just stayed in touch and all that. And you know you don't always have to like, I think if anyone's interested in speaking or appearing on podcasts, I might.
Speaker 2:One of my biggest life philosophy lessons I can give anyone is don't self select yourself out of things. Yes, make someone else do it. And it's not about even getting rejected because nobody in Ruby is mean, you know, like, like, if you, if you need an in, you can just like go make your little blog or whatever and write your thoughts on a couple things, and then, if you have a thing that you think you could talk about for a bit, just drop someone a line like, hey, I'd like to talk about this thing, or just engage with people on X or Blue Sky or Twitter, mastodon, whatever you do, and just like mastodon, whatever you do, and just like you know, it's not the only reason I started on the ruby and rails podcast is I was at a conference I guess it's good to be around people and britney martin and I, like you know, became pals and then I just said I I had this blog post that was okay about my first rails contribution to core. She said, hey, do you want to talk about that? I'm like sure. And I just said, hey, if you ever we like to talk, if you ever want to not interview a guest and just to have someone talk back to you or just fill an episode, I'm always happy to come on. And now she made me listed as a co-host, even though I just pop on like every eight weeks and make it easier, right Cause if you have one eighth less bookings to do in a year like um, less bookings to do in a year, like um, it's, it's good. So, like I, I like any of my talks or um, uh, podcast appearances were not because of like some virtue, like being the best at anything.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying I'm crap at things, but like it's just about increasing your surface area for luck or or or good things to happen. But but but yeah, the number one is don't self-select yourself out, don't not apply to that job, because there's one thing that you don't match, you know. Don't not ask to do something because you think I'm not good enough. Like it's like over a decade. It's a huge game changer in your life if you give yourself a chance to do something anyway. Yeah, jason was nodding while I was talking, so it kind of egged me on a little bit to like really-.
Speaker 1:No, I'm nodding because I completely agree and that's been my philosophy forever Like don't be the brakes yourself, like be the gas and let somebody else be the brakes.
Speaker 2:I emailed DHH before I ever had a coding job, saying he should hire me, and at a time I've never said this out loud Wow, this is like a big thing in my life. Like a decade ago I didn't have a CS degree, I self taught, I'd gone to a boot camp as well, over been coding for a year and I basically was like I mean I wouldn't do this. Now I don't recommend it, like I, whatever pay I've come in, if I don't learn it, if I don't know it now, I'll learn it today. Let's go and and I actually cold called a lot of ceos.
Speaker 2:You know, getting your first job is the hardest thing I think you can ever do yeah and coding and I cold called a lot of ceos, like the hiring managers, the people not just filling in applications, and I got so ignored for months and not even like a F you in a reply. And David actually replied to me directly and was very kind and cordial and it just was like you know, we're not hiring right now but you know we'll keep an eye, you know, let it reach out if we are, and all the best and like like an actual real human response, right, I never forgot that because I didn't get a result, obviously, but that gave me a little bit of a boost because you think, wow, this like person who made the framework that everyone else is trying, I'm trying to get hired on, like, treated me like a person, you know yeah, yeah, that's really interesting the approach you took.
Speaker 1:I think that's fairly rare, sadly, um, um, to be that like aggressive about it. Not aggressive in a bad way, obviously, but aggressive in the sense of like taking initiative and doing something and making yourself stand out somehow. Um, you talked about the uh, I forget how you put it the 2022 tech winter or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, from my perspective, it feels like we're still in that, as far as like hiring goes and stuff like yes a lot of people are having a really tough time right now, um, but a lot of people aren't doing anything that makes them stand out, and I think now it's much more necessary than it has been in the past, because people are putting out job ads and if there's 500 applicants per job ad and you're just one undifferentiated person among 500, then that's that's not very likely to get you results, and so I'm a big fan of like doing these unusual things. My first real programming job I found an ad somewhere, I don't remember where. It might have even been in print, but this place this was like 2005.
Speaker 1:This place in Kalamazoo, michigan, where I was living, needed a programmer and I applied and they interviewed me and they turned me down and then, some months later, I saw the same exact job ad again and I emailed them again and I'm like, hey, I see that you guys still need somebody. You haven't found anybody yet. Like I can do, can do it, you should hire me. And they brought me back for another interview and for whatever reason, this time, instead of having like one person interviewed me, it was like ten people all in a room. It was the only time that's ever happened in an interview for me. But among the people was the big boss of the whole company and they hired me and I said when? When do you want me to start? And they're like yesterday. And I'm like, okay, well, yesterday already happened, so I'll come in tomorrow. And so that's how that went that that's awesome, like I've.
Speaker 2:Like, I love that story because there's times in my life where I've been well, at least once, where I've been rejected for a thing I cared about and then months or a year later, oh, give it a go again, because it gives them a big signal. There's not a lot of people who come back after being rejected. And also you learn the most about people how they respond to being rejected. And also also you learn the most about people how they respond to being rejected because then, when they have nothing further to gain from you or when they're fired, right. So, when you have nothing more to gain from someone and it's clear, like what, what's your character? Like? Like, I don't really have an opportunity to show my character when things are going well, when I'm getting good reviews, when pay is okay um, when?
Speaker 2:But like, but if you get, like, rejected or fired, that is one of your rare opportunity I'm this like a philosophy podcast, but like one of your rare opportunities to show your character like, like, all right, let's look at the book of your life. How did you act when you got rejected? Oh, oh, no, that's not the god but like, if you're chill about it and you maybe stayed resilient when it was hard to be resilient. That's like makes problem, but like if you're chill about it, and you maybe stayed resilient when it was hard to be resilient. That's like makes you a cool person, right and then you're a cool person, jason.
Speaker 2:So there you go.
Speaker 1:I think about that a lot, like your true colors only really show when things are going badly um like it's a good trick if you can get that into your head.
Speaker 2:So, like there's like you can like have these little things that switch and you remind yourself. You know like, because sometimes I worry about um, as I age, getting like incapacitated or horrible pain or something, and um, but I've now got this weird tick in my head. Where I get hurt, say I burn myself or I or I pull something or whatever I'm like, oh, this is good practice, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, this is really awful. But I'm okay, sweet, okay, when it's really bad, this is the thank god I had no pain in my knee for so long that I was getting nervous about if I could handle it and I can handle it. So similar, like, um, when you have a bad life event.
Speaker 2:I actually had something like a not very nice conversation recently with just a person. It doesn't even matter the context and that went my mind. I'm like, oh, oh, this is interesting. Like I'm in a moment that's not very nice, it's not totally safe and good. Now, how am I going to handle this? I'm like, oh, I want to leave it right. I'm like, well, this is practice.
Speaker 2:Or you know, like some people might call it with cbt, like exposures exposing your thing. But you're like, hey, this is like a growth moment, you know, like some people might call it with CBT, like exposures exposing your thing. But you're like, hey, this is like a growth moment, you know, because you don't really when the code is easy and the deploys are easy and your relationships are easy that's that's what we secretly want that you're not showing what you're made of, right? So it's a win win. Either things are really easy and you're like, ah, life is good, or they're a bit challenging and I'm not saying that these bad things are nice, right, but you're like showing your metal and you and I are I don't know what age you are, but like I'm not a kid anymore, so I have enough years. It's almost that's your maturity, isn't it? You're like, oh, I've got this whole road of things and I've gotten through all these experiences and it gives you that kind of baseline for character, right yeah, that's another thing that I've thought about.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, but I forgot what I was gonna say back about that. Wait, what even were we just talking?
Speaker 2:about the character, true colors showing, showing who like who you are when bad things happen.
Speaker 1:I also talked about pain um, um, yeah, oh yeah, I remember what I was going to say.
Speaker 1:Like sometimes people, people, do you wrong, um, or not even they do you wrong, but like they put you out in some way or something like that, like the other day. So this summer I took some chess lessons me and my kids took some chess lessons and we had to drive like 40 minutes away to the lessons. And one day I drove to the lessons and the guy wasn't there and I called him and he was like oh, I'm so sorry, I am like 40 minutes away. He was in some other place doing some other thing. He's like I can't make it today, and you know, we just had to turn around and drive back home and it was a complete waste of time. But when those things happen, I think to myself like this is a great opportunity to not be an asshole and like take a little bit of assholery out of the world. And so I was just like no problem, we'll just schedule it for another time, because there's like nothing to be gained by like being ungracious about it I'd folks.
Speaker 2:I just wrote that down in a notepad. I've written a few things. Jason said. I did this whole like rambling nick tangent, but literally that's like seven words great opportunity to not be an asshole because again you don't have that like. It's not really a great opportunity to not be an asshole. Sit at your computer like typing into your editor um, but like that, where you've been, you screwed over and you're gonna waste 80 minutes, probably 100 minutes, with the phone call of your day, your kids not doing a thing. You're like and it may be like as a father. That means something as well because you're like. I'm going to show you how somebody should handle this situation yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that in the moment, but that is uh, yeah, that's. That's hopefully a good example. Um, yeah, I haven't like there's. There's this quote or something from that guy, jaco willink, or whatever. I I don't like follow him or whatever, but um, he has a saying where, like when something bad happens or unexpected or something he's like good, he's like my mission got canceled, good, now I can like focus on this other thing or whatever.
Speaker 1:I think it's kind of like a healthy way to look at things. It's it kind of ties into that like stoic philosophy where, like, you go into the day like prepared for absolutely anything to happen. It's like I'm driving to the grocery store I could get a flat tire, like I'm mentally prepared for anything to happen anytime, and so, like, when something bad happens, sometimes I get like flustered and upset and stuff like that, but usually I don't, because I've like trained myself to always be expecting anything. And when something bad happens, it's like there's nothing to be gained by getting all pissed about it. You just like deal with it and move on yeah, like the obstacle is the way right.
Speaker 2:Like so, if you're in the line at the grocery store I don't know if this is a quote, but it's like that's what you're meant to be doing right now and like, how are you going to treat that time? Or like, say, I've really want to finish this like personal hacking project and the baby finally went to sleep and I've got about. I've been disrupted a bit. It's about 40 minutes later and I'm like three lines of code in and then the baby's upset again and I have to go up and maybe I have to give him another bottle, and it's in a dark room and the night's getting later and later and he's drinking away. And there's other layers to this too. But it's like this is what I'm meant to be doing right now and this is the way to like.
Speaker 2:It's not just about getting my code, I mean for my job, it is but like yeah, for sure. And the Jocko Willink thing there's like remixes of that as a song, like as, like a dubstep like, with him saying and this really deep voice, good, it's like good. But like if you have that trigger, you know, I don't know. Like Jocko Willink he also does this thing, I think, where he uploads like pictures of his watch for like how early he gets up right, I'm like you could totally hack that you could just like literally set up a computer, like take a picture of a 305.
Speaker 2:But no, like the good thing is, I like that idea where, um, for a lot of things you can train, like, like, if you read meditation and some of the stuff, I don't think even people, I don't, I don't think some people are ready for how deep that can go.
Speaker 2:For, like, what you're really as meditations yeah, yeah, I mean when you're taught like I can't even say it in front of my wife because a lot he lost a lot of kids. And like he talks about visualizing holding your child and visualizing them not being there. Some people can't even say those words out loud, but he's saying about how you have such a rich time with them if you do that because god forbid, but like if you sat there while you're holding them. Instead of thinking about I want to finish my show, you're thinking, or the other thing I do is imagine 80 year old nick would probably cut off a pinky to be holding this baby right now.
Speaker 1:Right, Right, yeah, like every child goes away because like, even if nothing happens and they like die or something, they, they, they grow up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but so so you can really get in there. But even as an entry level, um, the good thing, you know, I power hose the driveway and it was cold and miserable and dark and I couldn't see what I was doing. And then the next day, the light of day, I could see every patch of moss that I missed and it was such a ball ache to get it set up and and that like I needed to. I wish I had that. Then and think, good, I get a power hose again.
Speaker 1:I get to get better at power hosing yeah, you know, I've gotten well, just to be totally like candid or whatever. I've gotten a lot more, even keeled, since I've started taking some certain medications like it's a complicated thing, like I think. I've had like anger issues my whole life but, as I think you know, I got a pretty bad concussion in 2019 and, according to my wife, I like had kind of a personality change and I became like more more of an angry person which is not uncommon.
Speaker 1:Not uncommon concussions right, um, and so I started taking well butrin and pristik and it made a huge difference. Like wow, my wife says I'm like a different person now and you know I can't really tell, uh, which is kind of weird. But like, if I think back over, like just like, what life is like? For the last couple years I've been taking this medicine and before that it's like oh yeah, I've had a lot, of, a lot fewer episodes of like being pissed, like there was one day I like not to overshare on the podcast hey, it's all right, it's your podcast I I like slammed my fist into a concrete driveway.
Speaker 1:I was just like punching the concrete because I was so mad. It's like I I don't do that kind of stuff anymore.
Speaker 2:No, no, I mean, that's good Like cause. You know, thinking about when, when your own emotions are like a barrier or a challenge to like, live in your life, right, like and how you feel, it's like a fundamental part of who you are. Right Before the baby was born, I was researching into stuff and I'd read a lot of good journals on like against placebo, cortisol level reduction, which is the hormone that's released when you're stressed with ashwagandha, and so I started that about a month or two before the baby was born and it was a marked difference between like I guess that's not a medication, but like just going around and there's just something that's not there. That's not a medication, but like just going around and there's just something that's not there. And it was like a certain amount of imagine, like when you're stressed because you're it's 30 minutes till your plane takes off and you're 20 minutes away or whatever from it. That's the imagine, that exact feeling, but imagine it just being like in your bloodstream quite a lot, just all the time, and yeah, so like that. That for me uh, this is not a medical advice, listeners, um, but I find I found is with my programmer brain reading medical journals, um, skeptically in 2024, has been very interesting. There's a few other things too that I'm sure a lot of programmers like do this research? Um, but I'm not, I'm not selling ashwagandha, I'm just saying it was an interesting but, but I didn't know.
Speaker 2:So I took it for a while, right, and then I was like, huh, something feels weird and I was looking and, and there's also a study where, against placebo, they had men take it for 12 weeks, um, and those who were placebo versus ashwagandha, um, did resistance training and those who did it took it had bigger arms and bigger muscles and bigger strength and better muscle recovery, unrelated. So, since I started taking it right before my baby was born, think of this 10 kilogram weight that I'm doing this all day with. I'm jacked, I'm the strongest I've ever been in my life strongest I've ever been in my life because, like, I've literally went into like daily physical training with this baby while taking a thing that I didn't know helped with muscle recovery and growth, because I was taking it for stress and I'm like, oh, look, my biceps. I've never had a bicep. I probably couldn't arm wrestle, um, but yeah, so I don't know. We, when jason and I talk, I think we could go anywhere and then the podcast always goes by so fast.
Speaker 1:I know, I feel like we started talking five minutes ago, you know I know, um yeah, and, by the way, I I have such a strong urge to start a second podcast, which is literally a podcast about like nothing and anything and everything like like this did we talk about code a little bit we talked about code a little bit.
Speaker 1:I could talk about my drb server that I deployed with kamal, but I really like talking about life and philosophy a bit more oh yeah, and I think people tell me they enjoy it when the podcast like goes off the rails and we talk about weird shit on the show. So I'm I'm okay with it. Um, but like I don't know, I have this friend who is a super interesting guy, one of the smartest people I've ever met, and he like made himself a millionaire and he ran like an illegal underground poker ring and got arrested for it and has like a whole bunch of trophies for bowling and poker and pool and all this stuff. Super interesting guy. But there's like no reason to have him on this podcast because it wouldn't be a programming interview at all. Actually, he is a programmer just by total coincidence, but there's so many interesting people and interesting things to talk about that don't fit into this. I really want to do that. It would be a really irresponsible use of my time to do that now.
Speaker 2:Well, what you could do is like have the odd episode where you put like in brackets like a little thing about, like the type of episode Because, like, do you remember we joked years ago about like having, was it? You and me Joked about having an after dark or something, and it's like the things that like, and we'd record the things that we didn't want to say on air or whatever, and then like, maybe swearing more or whatever, and but like you know, that would. Or the soup one was like 10 minutes. That wasn't you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:You said I don't even know if you've deployed that to you oh, I definitely did bracket soup cast, and then you, and then you just say, like guess the pacho gazpacho. And then it's someone talking about your spot. You could do square bracket. Um, we'll come up with a word. You could make a board right like um, square bracket off the rails well, okay.
Speaker 1:So if I were to do this other podcast thing like, my intention would do would be to become like the next joe rogan or tim ferris oh, where you just yeah, what?
Speaker 2:it's an open platform.
Speaker 1:You just chat as long as you want, but I I've, yeah, and like the caliber of guests and stuff like I'd want to have, I would want to get to the point of having, like the president of the united states or something like that on the show, that kind of thing, yeah, you could invite anyone you like.
Speaker 2:If you like doing it, I think you do it. I've toyed around with literally just inviting people to chat with me in a meet and recording it, and then over years and eventually save up, maybe pay for a really good intro. Ladies and gentlemen, we lost Nick, but now he's back, oh sorry. So I've toyed with recording things over over a number of years, saving up some money and then just doing like a one off release and I get every name I could onto it, but not actually doing it really live, just like it could be. Four years later I'm like oh yeah, I've got about 12 of these recordings. Yeah, we'll just release it, you know like, and then do a series, and so it's done, it's one like. I did that newsletter.
Speaker 1:I did like three seasons and it's gone right, uh, the url doesn't even exist, so I don't know by the way, speaking of live, something I really want to do specifically with you is a live like I don't know what format it is, maybe like youtube live or whatever it is and we start in the morning and we do like a live like I don't know what format it is, maybe like youtube live or whatever it is and we start in the morning and we do like a live marathon and it's like we stay on.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just like a really long podcast episode and we invite people to it and we just stay on until people stop coming to it, and maybe it's like a 12-hour podcast episode or something like that could we, could I make some videos and stuff that we played for like a little break as well, like little art, and it could be like a well, we could get, like I could get my teammates and stuff and say, hey, could you come on at 10. Yeah, and just chat with us for like have a meet going, and it casts out and then we just like line up people and then maybe they'll be talking to each other too and it's just like, why are all these rubies? And then people be like eight hours in. They're like do you see what's going on? Yeah, there's just they aren't stopping and it's just like I don't know, I don't know how your voice holds up, right, yeah, you could just tap out.
Speaker 2:If you can't hack it, um, but like, yeah, if we, if we could line up. Honestly, how many people do you think you could dm and I could dm that would like book a slot to pop? On so many. I could just literally anyone like you. You name the people who are going to your car. So arena, justin, marco roth, whoever right, and then, but just don't say who's going to be on. And you know, I don't know, we, I could force someone to share their screen, like what are you working on?
Speaker 1:well, here's my, here's my evil scheme like this could be like a promotional thing for sin city ruby and we could have like as many of the sin city ruby speakers on the on the thing as could make it, and so we'd have like all these Ruby celebrities and stuff. So people would wanna come and like kind of hang out with these people.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I could totally live share my innovation video. Oh yeah, and things like that. There's loads of art in the Ruby world that would be interesting to share. But yeah, I like that. Okay, do a marathon. And I don't think it even has this purpose. Doesn't have to raise for charity or anything. It can just be like us chatting for no reason. Three viewers, who cares you? Know yeah and just keep it rolling until it stops.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the only thing is my, my wife not, might not approve yeah yeah, we got so much shit going on right now, like, uh, I haven't even told you, nick, but we're like remodeling our basement right now and we're doing like everything ourselves, like literally everything, like I learned how to do the electrical wiring and stuff like that, so we're doing just everything and that's, as you can imagine, very time consuming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah well, we'll, we'll, we'll, put a pin in it and we'll see. We'll see what we take for the next, for the next rodeo. It's funny, I always come up, I come with notes to these podcasts and, except for like one thing, I never get to it because we always fill the time. So that's good the way. I barely got to hang out with you at RailsWorld, because this is what sexual confidence is Everybody's there For the folks listening.
Speaker 2:I was meant to bring Jason an Iron Brew soda from the UK and I did, and I never gave it to him. It was in my suitcase. I drank it, I told you this and you said well, I have beef jerky for you, or was it you?
Speaker 1:yeah, you had the beef jerky from a gas station.
Speaker 2:I love how you just said from a gas station. But like most people are like oh, but it was like nice authentic beef jerky it was like beef jerky.
Speaker 2:It's a gas station slash meat shop meat shop and I never get good jerky in the UK unless I make it myself. So it was like literally in Toronto in some like farmer's marketplace you know that was really fancy that they had Railsworld in Got handed like you just get. And then Andrew Mason came over so listeners might know him. He got some beef jerky. So imagine the three of us just eating beef jerky and that was one of the few times I got to see jason is just oh man, that that's that's. The thing. Now is like early days ruby, there's only like two or three people I was looking to see at a conference and then it it's now at the point where, like when all of you are there, I just don't even have time to see anyone, exactly because I'm with my team as well, right, so I just like hi you in the line for the coffee.
Speaker 2:Bye, yeah, because I'm walking here.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe I was talking to you and then I see andrew mason. I'm like, oh, hey, andrew. And then I see like ufuk behind me and I'm like, oh, hey, man. And then like it's just the whole time, it's just like you're bouncing like a pinball ball and you never get like a whole lot of quality time with any one person, some people you don't even get to see at all.
Speaker 2:That's why everyone should go to Sin City, roomie, if you can get a ticket or a slot, because that is when you get the hundred or less conferences, and I've been to conferences where there's like 20 speakers and 20 attendees Like you. It's so great because you become a group of people. And it sounds like from what Jason's doing you can even really get to know like folks. And I love the extended time.
Speaker 2:I love the sitting at the bar with 10 people and you're just yammering away and with a pint and then that's your night. You know like that's and that and that's why, like, I also like conferences where, ideally, where you're staying and where you're conferencing is close. Nothing. No shade against conferences that aren't that way.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, if I just go and post up somewhere, I know I'll see people and yeah, it's good yeah, the great thing about vegas is like I haven't really thought about this much before, but like you're hanging out with people in the after hours, whatever, and like you don't have to stop, like you can just keep going 4 am, 6 am, whatever you have the appetite for I can I taught like eight rubyists craps live, and they all made money and it blew my mind, because I never make.
Speaker 2:I enjoy it, I don't make money and it was so fun. Now I table minimums suck now. So you are looking to to do it properly. You can't be against bringing a couple hundred, but, like you know, I'm a gambler and I enjoy the the art of doing it not and that I'm like, oh, this next one I'm gonna win. I, I really like the whole game and everything. Um, but yeah, yeah, I taught like, but that was after, right, it was like then we go play some craps. I don't know if y'all want to come along, but I'm playing crap. And then we got a little round. We found an empty table, so there was no pressure. I was like all right, you, the most basic, just put your money, yeah, just the smallest amount, and then this is how you win, this is how you lose, and it was. And then they won. I'm like, hey, that's not how it's meant to go. You're not meant to just win your first time.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I don't do the gambling myself. I have a couple times and it's just an instant loss of a great amount of money which I'm not really into, but I? I think I understand the appeal, it's just not for me, um no?
Speaker 2:it's like. It's like, uh like, if I buy a two dollar lottery ticket, it's not because I'm thinking I'll win. It's like I enjoy the art of having this ticket and looking for some people who don't like losing money fair dues I treat it like buying a Snickers bar. If I don't get a $2, whatever a big Snickers bar worth of value out of this ticket, then just don't buy it. And if you don't enjoy like I never do a slot, I never do roulette, but there's a couple like I like playing poker with friends, you know, and you can be as slow as you want and the social aspect, and you bring your certain amount of money. You're like this is what I'm paying, like a concert ticket for this sociable activity, and I'm not really expecting to get my concert ticket money back. And it's similar with craps, but unfortunately it is a pricier one.
Speaker 1:But since I only do it like every three or four years a couple hundred bucks every three or four years, I'm like it's like you're going to see taylor swift or something, yeah I don't know, by the way, we recently got. Uh, my wife got taylor swift swift tickets. Whoa, it was like 200 bucks. Yeah, and then she couldn't go and she had to sell it. She had two tickets. They got sold for 3 000 bucks each. She had two tickets. They got sold for $3,000 each.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, and you're not even a scalper, yeah, and like people will pay like $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 for Taylor Swift tickets.
Speaker 2:You got six grand off those $200 tickets.
Speaker 1:For crappy seats. Wow, that's a great stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell that to my family who've gone to taylor swift.
Speaker 1:That's a really good story yeah, it's so nuts um anyway uh, it's been really good talking with you. Hope to do it again soon and I really hope you can make it to sin city ruby. It'd be great to hang out in person and I hope I can make it to uh rails world in amsterdam. Do you think you're going to be there?
Speaker 2:100. Nice amsterdam is the closest flight from belfast city airport to international destination. It's about 80 minutes from belfast city and belfast city airport is 10 minutes from my house, even if, like it's totally sometimes work will support that, but like totally off my own back, like I will, that is definite. Like it's it's easier to get to than london, which is crazy because that's in my own country. Um, yep and I'll, I'll, I'll put the feelers out about sensitive ruby, because I'll tell all the listeners you should go, but obviously I want to go too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I'm going to try to come to your house. You didn't invite me, but I'm going to come.
Speaker 2:Cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, from what? From Amsterdam? Yeah, sure, just sometime, whenever I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, belfast is great. A lot of people who come here go to Dublin instead and they oh, dublin was just fine, but Belfast, you know, it's a real town. It's where people are at, it's a good time, good restaurants, good crack as we say here, c-r-a-i-c and fun.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Good times, but it's a really used word. It's like oh, there's no crack last night. Oh, that's awful, oh, that's great crack. How was the crack? How was the crack? I love that, which in America sounds very different, right, anyway, yeah, thank you so much for having me on, Jason. It's always a joy, a treasure memory in my life, to be able to come and speak in your podcast and just have this time and share it with the world.
Speaker 2:world, hopefully, the ruby is doing their workouts or driving or working, uh listening to this in their ears now, or years from now, can uh have what I had when I first listened to podcasts, which was I felt like you know, I didn't know any ruby, it's right, and I felt like these are kind of my pals because I listen to them, I hear about their lives, right, you feel like you get to know them. So hopefully, my scent this is me sentimental father in my old age, you know, just like it's like. Nick, is there something wrong with your health? You're being very somber? No, I'm fine, but no, I thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for being here. It's always a treat. Dear listener, you can go to sincityrubycom to get tickets, as long as I'm plugging stuff. I recently came out with a book called Professional Rails Testing, which you can find on Amazon. Have a wonderful day. You're welcome or I'm sorry, depending on whether you expected programming content in this episode. And thanks again, nick. And thank you, nick, nick yes, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:My plug is blogschwadorg. I'm doing wild things there very recently, if you want to see my wild stuff. So awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, uh, I don't know how to end this episode. Goodbye, goodbye episode. Goodbye, goodbye.