The Aspirant Podcast
Hello, incredible entrepreneurs, and welcome to 'The Aspirant Podcast!' I’m your host, Natasha Clawson, a Digital Marketing Educator and Strategist, and I’m here to help you build a business that doesn’t just work but thrives—and feels good while doing it.
🌟 Every week, we explore actionable business wisdom designed to help you create a business that aligns with your values, generates the income you desire, and operates like a well-oiled machine with the right systems, processes, and automation in place.
Imagine a business where taking consistent action is purposeful and attracts the clients you actually want to work with. So doing the work you love is more than just a goal—it’s your everyday reality.
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The Aspirant Podcast
Jen Jones Donatelli - How to Make Headlines (And Why It’s Easier Than You Think)
Ever dreamed of seeing your name in bold letters on National Geographic, Time, or Martha Stewart? You’re not alone—and you’re not out of reach. This week, I sat down with Jen Jones Donatelli, a journalist, certified coach, and media strategist, to unlock the mystery of landing those coveted media features.
Jen has helped her clients get featured in prestigious publications like National Geographic, TIME, BBC, Martha Stewart, and Apartment Therapy. She’s passionate about showing entrepreneurs and creatives how to navigate media opportunities—without breaking the bank on expensive PR firms.
In this episode, we cover:
- The difference between paid and organic media coverage (and why the latter is more rewarding).
- How to identify the right publications or podcasts for your audience.
- Actionable tools and platforms like HARO and Quoted that connect you with media opportunities.
- Why leveraging smaller, local outlets can sometimes bring even more impact than national features.
- Tips for crafting a pitch that makes editors and producers sit up and take notice.
Jen also shares how her signature program, Start Your Press, empowers participants to become their own best publicists, equipping them with the skills and confidence to pitch, land, and leverage media coverage.
Whether you're dreaming of that “as seen in” section on your website or just want to explore new ways to amplify your brand’s reach, this episode is packed with gold. Get ready to ditch the overwhelm and start making media exposure work for you.
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Start Your Press: Become Your Own Best Publicist
November 19-20 11 AM - 2:30 PM EST
$279 (early bird rate of $259 before Nov. 11, or with code NATASHA if signing up after Nov. 11)
Learn More >>
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Interested in connecting more with Jen? Catch her over at the Creative Groove and drop her a line. In addition to Start Your Press, she offers individualized one-on-one coaching for media and hosts an Artist Way Series throughout the year. Get your creative groove on with Jen!
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Get In Touch:
Today I'll be talking with my guest, jen Jones Donatelli, a journalist, author, certified coach and educator who's passionate about helping others tap into their creative group. In recent months, en's helped her clients get featured in publications such as National Geographic, ime, bbc, martha Stewart and Apartment Therapy. Welcome to the show, jen hey.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Natasha, thank you for having me.
Natasha Clawson:It is so good to have you here. We've worked together in a mentorship capacity for several years and I appreciate so much about you your passion for creativity, how you help people tap into it and the offerings that you have now around media coverage and we've just named some pretty big names and I know a lot of entrepreneurs are wondering how they can do the same thing, but it feels kind of intimidating to know where to start, so let's help them understand today.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, that's one of my favorite topics, so I'd love to do a deep dive with you around that.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, so how did you first get into helping clients land media features and what excites you about this work?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, so my background is as a journalist. So I have a degree in magazine journalism and I've worked in just about every type of media you could imagine. So I've worked on several nationally syndicated talk shows. I've worked on a lot of different print and online publications. I've worked in TV, I've worked in film, I've done copywriting so pretty much you know, any type of writing or media has been something that I've been passionate about.
Jen Jones Donatelli:I was self employed for 17 years so I kind of used that journalism degree and really kind of like made my mark in the media field and then, as time went on, I learned that I enjoyed kind of helping other people learn the lay of the land, so helping subject matter experts, entrepreneurs, small business owners learn the power of media coverage and kind of amplifying their reach and growing their authority, because a lot of people think it's just relegated to you know, hiring a PR firm or something like that. And I'm really passionate about helping people realize that this tool is available to them and it's something that anyone can do if you know the right resources and you know how to find the newsworthy angles in your work right, Because that's important too. So I like to help kind of equip people. If media coverage is something they want to do in growing their visibility, I love to help kind of give them that kickstart, and that's why I call my program Start your Press, because that's exactly what I like to help people do.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, that's. That's so truly empowering for people. Because I think, you know, we can look on someone's website and see like these features, forbes or Time and they can seem so unattainable, but what we know intuitively, looking at these on a website, is the credibility and power this gives someone. And I don't want to say it's easy, but it's so much more within reach than a lot of people realize. So what are some of the resources that people can use to look for these features?
Jen Jones Donatelli:what are some of the resources that people can use to like, look for these features. Yeah, and I would even take a step back from that and say well, first of all, you're right, like you, look at a lot of entrepreneurs or experts websites and they do have that as featured in box or as seen in, and it does kind of Instagram or, you know, telegraph that instant credibility. I just said Instagram, it telegraphs that instant credibility. I just said Instagram telegraph that instant credibility. So I think it is very worthwhile because a cold lead coming to your website or someone who's never heard of you before, I think it does elevate you in their eyes and give you or, you know, give an expert that aura of expertise and so so, to take it from what you said, so if you do see that on someone's website, there may be a few different ways that they got there.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So, first of all, there are paid opportunities that you can do If your dream is to be in Forbes or Insider or Business Insider or Entrepreneur. Entrepreneur has their own thought leadership network that you can pay to be part of, create content, be on panels, be featured in Entrepreneur, Same with the Forbes Council. So if that's your dream, to do that and you want a quick avenue to doing so. There are paid ways you can do that. So if you see that on there, they may have done that you know. On there they may have done that, you know.
Jen Jones Donatelli:However, I specialize in what I call organic media coverage, or what the industry likes to call earned media coverage, which is basically, you know, writing about a person or business because they will appeal to their audience or have insights that are valuable to them, and so it's I don't want to call it merit based, but it's kind of more. The publication wants to write about you because you're a great fit for their demographic and what they focus on, and so those are kind of two ways you can get to that. And then I guess I'll pause there to see, like, how that's landing with you in terms of, like the two avenues you can take landing with you in terms of like the two avenues you can take.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, I think that's such a good distinction to make because I know some people are familiar with the paid and some people might not be familiar that you can get these opportunities for free, which I think is really important to know and makes your program, start your Press, super valuable, because you know they can take your program and they could go get this credibility by putting in the man hours to go get the feature, but really not a lot else other than buying your course, which is huge for people especially who are getting scrappy and maybe don't have a huge budget for like an ad in Forbes. So I really love that distinction. So some of these publications like National Geographic Time, like how do you actually help your?
Jen Jones Donatelli:clients get there. Like, where do you start? Yeah, so the first thing that's most important is to think about what are your target goals, you know. What are the publications you want to be showing up on, what are your dream podcasts, you know. So first we start by making a list of just you know pie in the sky, like if you could appear in any publication or podcast, what would it be, you know. And then we start to reverse engineer a little bit and think about, okay, who is your ideal client or customer or person you want to reach? Because the thing about magazines is they're all geared towards special interests or certain audiences.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And so if you're a personal trainer, you know you want to be thinking about, okay, who's interested in health and wellness information and what are the media outlets that cover that? So you start to think about I have important expertise to share. You know, how do I use these channels to reach the people that can benefit from it? Because I think we all have a bias that everyone knows. What we know as experts, like it kind of becomes like wallpaper to us over time, and so I think it's important to remember each of us, as experts and entrepreneurs, have such valuable wisdom and knowledge you know, and when it reaches the right people, that's gold. So that's usually where we start is like, okay, what are your key messages? You want to get out there, how do you want to position yourself in the media? Who are you as an expert? And then also, just as importantly, who do you want to reach and how do we bridge those two things together through key media outlets and relevant media? And that's usually our starting point.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, and I think what you just said was gold. So many different things in marketing come back to the same basic principles, which is what's the goal outcome you're looking for, who are you serving, and then putting together strategies to fit and reach those audiences. Do you think it's imperative that people are going after like smaller publications first? Is there kind of a ladder that people go up?
Jen Jones Donatelli:How does that typically work first, Is there kind of a ladder that people go up? How does that typically work? Yeah Well, it kind of depends. You know some people you know they only want to be in high profile placements or high profile publications. For other people, it's more important that they reach who they want to reach and that might be through really niche podcasts or publications. So it kind of depends on the person. I always encourage my clients to keep an open mind. You know, even if you've never heard of a publication or podcast, you never know what can come from it. You know, and I'll give you an example Like I used to edit a small publication in Cleveland and it's called Freshwater Cleveland.
Jen Jones Donatelli:I guess I would call it a boutique online publication and the tagline was the people, places and projects that are shaping and transforming Cleveland. And I was the managing editor for several years, and one of the articles we did was focusing on a local realtor who helps veterans get their first homes. Like if they have poor credit or maybe have other barriers, you know, to buying a home, he helps set them up for success, you know, to be able to buy their first home, and so we wrote an article about his work and when I saw him a few weeks after it was published. He almost like tackled me over and said you won't believe this, like my Zillow has thousands of leads in it. We've reached so many people through this article and you know it's really been remarkable the impact that this, you know, published article has made on our business. And so you know, you live. You know you live many states away from me and so you've probably never heard of Freshwater Cleveland, you know. But for this particular individual it made a huge impact.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And I think that's another thing to think about.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Because you mentioned small versus larger publications.
Jen Jones Donatelli:You can also think about local versus national or international, because some people think, okay, the sexy stuff is the national and international, but sometimes, depending on what you do for a living, stuff you know is the national and international, but sometimes, depending on what you do for a living, local can actually be more impactful.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So what I usually do with clients is think about okay, if we're looking at this as your media strategy, you know what are the outcomes you want to see from this, and sometimes that lends toward local coverage and sometimes it lends toward national, like right now I'm working with a speech language pathologist who has a center where I live locally and we've pursued both local and national pieces and you know there's strategy behind both of those things. So I'm not saying you necessarily have to choose either, or you can do both small publications and podcasts and large. You know you could do local and national, but when you think about it, we all only have so much time in the day. So if you come into this with a more intentional way of what you're looking for, it's going to save you time and energy and it's going to help you connect to the right opportunities more quickly and easily.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, I think that's an important distinction, especially as, like online entrepreneurs or service providers or influencers, a lot of times we're looking for that high profile, like that big thing where our local community not only is it sometimes easier to get coverage and smaller things, but there's a community of like fans there, like you're from their hometown, and there's like a whole different relatability versus like being featured in something high profile that you can tap into and really you know, really leverage, yeah, and I think, at least from what I'm seeing, is often on a national level.
Jen Jones Donatelli:What you're really tapping into is what I would call service journalism.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So you're sharing your expertise from like a how-to standpoint or sharing news you can use, you know, so, like and I know we haven't talked about this yet, but there's different platforms you can use to find out what reporters, editors, podcasters are working on and see if you'd be a fit for those articles, for those podcast episodes, and like, often those are what I would call service journalism.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So it's things like like, for instance, something my speech language pathologist client and I just submitted for is the best gifts for babies and toddlers that help further child development, and parents anywhere can use that right. So that lends itself well to a national audience, Whereas a story about her center, you know, which can only be used essentially by people you know in Northeast Ohio, unless people want to travel here for it. But a story about her center would be more relevant, you know, to a local audience. So I think, often on a national level for experts it's more around your expertise and then often like, more profile style content or more local centric content can obviously be, you know, on the local tip.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, that's really helpful to know. So I know we talked a little bit about you know, when you work with your clients, you do the goal setting and audience, but what does that process actually look like from there? Sure?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, so typically, well it so with my clients. What we do is we usually meet once a month and that's more of like a strategy call where I'll share, maybe, opportunities that I found or they'll share things that are there on their radar and, to be honest, often it turns into something bigger than just media coverage, to really more broad visibility. Because you know, I've been self employed for 20 years and you know you and I know we nerd out on entrepreneurship, like you and I are both similarly wired like that. So I'm always kind of have my ear to the ground for different summits or podcasts or bundles or speaking opportunities. You know that might be a good fit for my clients. And so often it's a little bit more holistic over time where we're looking at okay, what are your strengths and talents? Like, how do you want to be showing up in the world? Like I have one client that refuses to be filmed. She does not want to be on camera whatsoever. So I don't, like I don't want to force people to do things that are out of their comfort zone unless it's something that serves their goals and something they want to do. So we look at how are you wired? You know, how do you show up naturally in the world what's exciting to you, and then we build from there and because we have that long-term relationship, I kind of get to know those things about them so that I can have a better radar about opportunities that might be a good fit for them.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So we have that like once a month strategy session and then also, if I'm working with someone one on one, I do daily media monitoring for them. So I use these different platforms that I'm sure you and I will talk about you know on this on this episode but I use different platforms and resources to basically scan for is there anything that media is actively working on that they need experts for that? They would be a good fit for. And if I see something that's a good fit, you know, I get on the bat phone and I call them up and I say when can we connect? You know today or tomorrow, so that I can interview you and we can put together a good pitch to send out for this opportunity. So in that way it can be very responsive. You know, sometimes weeks will go by and there'll be really nothing you know in the ether. That's a good fit for them, and then there might be like a flurry of activity.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So in some ways it's responsive, in other ways it's more generative. So with responsiveness we're basically responding to those existing media opportunities. But with generative we might think about original pitches or segments that we want to put out there. Like I just worked with my speech language pathologist client to pitch a local news segment to Channel 5, which is the ABC affiliate here, and we kind of crafted that idea and pitched together and went out to them. So I think it can be a yin and yang. In that way it can be both responsive and generative and in that way it kind be both responsive and generative and in that way it kind of functions like traditional public relations. I don't really identify as a PR person because I've been a journalist for many years, but it kind of functions like PR in that way and that often we're also doing generative work where we're kind of looking at what makes their work interesting and finding ways to package it and go out to media and see if they'd be interested in covering it in some way.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah. So let's dive into the responsive a little bit more, because it sounds like there's kind of boards and places where different media outlets who are looking for these experts that you to contribute kind of gather and you might be able to find and people might not be familiar with these. So what kinds of resources are there gather and you might be able to find and people might?
Jen Jones Donatelli:not be familiar with these. So what kinds of resources are there? Yeah, and I'll give like a teeny tiny bit of history just to give context of what this actually is. So I would say back in like oh 607, maybe it was oh eight, but in that era Taylor Swift era Peter Shankman founded Harrow, which is Help a Reporter Out H-A-R-O, and what it did basically was he sent out a daily digest that was curated by different reporters or media personalities, tv show producers who were in need of experts for their articles, and it was basically a bridge. I call them bridge platforms because it was a bridge to bring them together and basically create a win win situation where experts who want exposure, you know, could get that, but also journalists could connect with people more easily and quickly. And it really grew and over time this kind of model became more popular.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So I would say there's probably I use three of these platforms pretty regularly, but there's lots of these different platforms out there, you know, depending on what your interests are. And actually, hero is now what we call Connectively and Peter Shankman has started a different one called Source of Sources. The one I use most often is called Quoted K-W-O-T-E-D, and I feel like I'm getting off track here, but anyway, there's lots of these different resources out there and I find them highly valuable because, essentially, you're getting an instant access point to finding out. Where can I, as an expert, be kind of instantly connecting with editors, you know, reporters, podcasters, and creating relationships and pitching myself to maybe be part of what they're working on. And I'll tell you, I mean, quoted has some great stats.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Unfortunately, I don't know them by heart, but it's something like I'm probably not going to get it right. I'll just be honest. But it's something like I'm probably not going to get it right. I'll just be honest. But it's something like after seven pitches, you're highly likely to get a placement, you know.
Jen Jones Donatelli:So if you keep at this, if you stay consistent with this, chances are you are going to see a placement in one of these publications or podcasts, which is really exciting, you know. And also I like to say it's not ever time wasted, you know, because if you spend your time kind of crafting a pitch and, let's say it doesn't get chosen or used, you can then repurpose that for social media, you can repurpose it for a blog or newsletter, or maybe you've just it's just helped you get more clear on? What is your messaging or what do you have to offer? So, honestly, yes, you know there is a rejection element to it. A lot of the time you're not going to be chosen or you might feel like, oh, I spent two hours, you know, putting that pitch together and what? What am I going to get from that? You know, and there are some great ways to answer that question so that it doesn't have to be time wasted.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, I love that repurposing element, that nothing's wasted. We can. This content that we're generating, we can repurpose in so many different ways, even if it's a pitch, and even the pitch, like you said, it's just helping us get clear and I'll bring in a quote from our friend, bevan Farand, which is that she told me this and it stuck with me and it was. You know, people get afraid of the rejection and that you're not even going out and asking. So people get afraid of the rejection and that you're not even going out and asking. So she gave the reframe go collect 20 no's. Go with the expectation that you're collecting no's and your energy and showing up will change because you've taken the pressure off, you don't have to get the yes and it seems like such a silly exercise in some ways, but the shift that it makes in your brain to be able to actually show up and go do that work becomes so much easier when you're not worried about the yes.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, and I think if you're doing a certain amount of volume, it's almost like you're not really attached to the outcome, it's just kind of part of your workday, you know.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And so I mean I'll admit there's times we submit for something and I'm super hopeful about it. You know, I'm like a kid in a candy store, like checking every day, like did the article go live, you know. But then if it goes live and they're mentioned in it, it's like this big celebration. And if they're not, then it's like okay, on to the next thing and I move it into a different area of our spreadsheet, you know. And they don't take it too hard either either, because I like to say, you know this going to try again, you know. So we really try to set a good tone for you know the expectations and just kind of like giving ourselves grace and like flowing through this and again, like this is your agenda, you know you get to kind of define what you want this to be and how you're putting yourself out there. So it's all a learning experience and it can often be a really creative and fun one if you let it be learning experience.
Natasha Clawson:And it can often be a really creative and fun one, if you let it be. Yeah, and for, like those services like Harrow and Quoted, do they come with a cost or are they free? How does that work?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, almost all of the ones I use in fact, all of them are free to some degree and, I'll be honest, I do this for a living. I still use all the free versions, so you can definitely get a lot of mileage out of this with a free account. I am considering switching to paid for a number of reasons, but if you're just getting started with this and you just want to make it your playground, by all means, you know, do the free account and it should be very easy, you know, to plug in. And also, even if you don't want to start pitching right away, just reading what's going on every day or I always encourage people to kind of have several hashtags or keywords that they search for each day to just see what's popping up, and so if you just kind of do that like perfunctory search each day, you're going to learn a lot even just listening and lurking.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, that's great advice because you know you don't really know kind of what format like people are asking for things and that kind of gets you familiar with it. I'd love to talk for a little bit about pitching. So you have kind of the responsive and generative, which in my mind feels like the difference between a warm lead and a cold lead, right, because one they're asking for contents is a little bit warmer, so your pitch is probably a little bit simpler. And then the generative you're identifying like a podcast that you love or an outlet like National Geographic or some of the ones we mentioned before, and you're saying, okay, here's where I'm a good fit and putting together a more in-depth pitch. Could you chat a little bit about what goes into a pitch?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, I absolutely love that analogy you just made and you're so right. You know, and often generative work relies a lot on relationships, whether it be yours, the PR person's relationship, or maybe you know, the client's relationships. But yeah, cold pitching can be tough, you know you really have to be a slam dunk for something. But yeah, cold pitching can be tough, you know you really have to be a slam dunk for something to be able to connect those dots. So I like what you said about this idea of like, responsive, equaling warm lead. So, and actually there is a pretty big distinction to how you would approach pitching for these bridge platforms versus doing more cold pitching, because for these responsive platforms, I'm the only one who calls this responsive, by the way, so that's not really like it.
Natasha Clawson:I do like the definition, so I think it's working well.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Thank you. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference because you do pitch differently depending. But for these and I also made up the term bridge platform, so this is all my own jargon but anyway, for these bridge platforms and this may be hard if you're listening to this this may be hard to understand if you haven't actively done this. So I'm going to try to explain it as clearly as possible. But basically, these people you know, these media representatives are going to put out for a very specific topic and usually I tell people, if you feel you're a four or five fit for this, to go ahead and submit on a scale of one to five. If it's under four, I generally don't recommend going for it because there's going to be lots of fours and fives pitching and also reporters and podcasters don't really like receiving off-topic pitches or things that aren't relevant. So you're just kind of like spinning your wheels really if it's less than a four or five. So the first thing is to figure out am I actually a fit for this? And sometimes that can be a gray area Because sometimes like, for instance, I keep using my speech language pathologist client but there's a lot of topics that she's a great fit for that they specify pediatricians. So I'm like, oh okay, she can speak on this all day, you know, but they seem to want a pediatrician as the source. So very rarely if they specify pediatrician will I submit for that. Or, for instance, like I've worked with therapists in the past, you know there will be some where they say we want a licensed therapist, you know, which is great because she fit that criteria. But let's say you're working with a coach you know who has a lot of great expertise in that area.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Sometimes it's like should we still submit for this? So again, the first thing is to figure out am I actually fit what they're looking for? And really read between the lines to make sure you understand if you are. And, by the way, now I'm realizing I'm forgetting what the question, oh, so anyway. So pitching so they're going to have a very specific topic and they're usually going to maybe ask some questions in that query or give some things about what they want to see from the experts.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And so with responsive pitching, you actually want to treat it as an interview, which means that you do have to do a fair amount of work. You're basically giving sound bites they can use in this email. So, because what's becoming increasingly common is reporters and writers will lift straight from your pitch and put it into the article. So because a lot of times when I first started doing this, it was more when I was, because I used to use these bridge platforms as a journalist. So now I work more as a coach and consultant, but back then I was actively using these and I was just using it to find the people and then we would set up a phone interview and do that separately, no-transcript, and craft something that's almost as if you're doing an interview or providing soundbites, because that that's your one chance to get their attention.
Natasha Clawson:I'm so glad you said that, because that's really important, because if you think that this is just the introduction but this is the actual final, that's a big difference in how you would approach and write this. So once someone gets featured on something, I'd love to talk about how to leverage that right, because there's so many different ways you could. How have you seen some of your clients leverage it? What's effective? Are they leveraging it enough?
Jen Jones Donatelli:I love that you said that, because, yeah, I think the touting part is often what goes by the wayside. You know, it's like we work so hard to get these placements and then sometimes we don't toot our own horn about it. So, no, I don't think we're all doing it. And yes, the featured in section on the homepage is awesome, you know, but there's also so much more you could do with it. You know, you could shout out to your newsletter like, hey and, by the way, I am very guilty of this myself so, please, I don't want anyone listening to this to feel bad, like it's a very real thing, because there is a certain humility that comes to saying you know, hey, I'm stepping out on this platform. You know, like sometimes you can be a little shy about it, but you've got to use the whole buffalo, you know.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And if this is truly about being visible, then we have to be willing to be visible and to own what we're up to in the world. And so, yeah, I encourage people like mention it in your newsletter, share the article on social media and, by the way, that endears you to the reporters too, because then you can tag them in it and create that relationship again, you know, and so don't lose sight of it, really don't lose sight of it and make sure that you put it in your bio. You know, say I've. You know Jen Jones Donatelli has been featured in X, y and Z, you know, because it matters, you know. So don't let the work fizzle out after you get the placement. Keep it working for you.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, and I think this goes back to one of the things that I talk about a lot is that by the time we're sick of it. Other people have, like, maybe seen it once and they say it takes at least seven times to see something, to really register it. And so I think to your point. Yes, people are under leveraging the opportunities they worked so hard to get. And I mean, if you look at a lot of popular influencers and things like that, I mean they're introduced every time as featured in X, y, z, and so what you said was really important too Like you've worked so hard to be visible.
Natasha Clawson:Are you actually ready to be visible and own what you're doing in the world? And that really hit home with me. So I love that. Like then, that really hit home with me. So I love that. Like, yeah, we're here to be visible, be visible, leverage it. And I do think that features can also work like a chain, because once you have that credibility and someone sees you featured in one article, it can be a lot easier especially if you're cold pitching to then go, hey, I've been featured here, cause then they have a sample of what you're like and then are more likely to work with you, so that's fantastic, of what you're like and then are more likely to work with you, so that's fantastic. I think we talked earlier about the time and effort required, so it was, I think you said, like seven pitches. Do you think that's realistic with what you've seen with your clients?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Well, I think, if you use that litmus test of you know, one, figuring out am I the right fit for this query? And two, also asking yourself is this publication the right fit for me? Because that's important. You don't want it to just be. I'm just going to put myself for everything I'm a fit for, because you also have to look at, you know, is this actually a fit for me? And if both of those are a yes or a four or five, you know, then I do recommend moving forward. And, by the way, I'm realizing I forgot the question.
Natasha Clawson:I'm so sorry. Oh no, it's all right. I was just talking about if I think we had said like it was seven pitches on kind of the warmer pitches was what I think was at Harrow or one of the platforms had said was realistic for getting a placement. And I was just wondering if you've seen that reflected with working with your clients just trying to kind of gauge like what is the real time and effort that someone can expect to put in to get featured and that's kind of where I was going with.
Jen Jones Donatelli:That is, if you're being honest with yourself and true about the fours and fives and only submitting for those, that will accelerate your placements because you're being more intentional, you know, and accurate with where you're pitching. So I think you know in the beginning, like practice pitching, like get out there and do it, you know, and so in the beginning maybe it's not realistic to think tomorrow I'm going to be in you know fast company or whatever, but it can happen. I will not discount that at all or whatever, but it can happen. I will not discount that at all.
Jen Jones Donatelli:A lot of it is timing too, and I will say on these platforms, the you know, the reporters and media people they I don't like to just say reporters because it's bigger than that, it's often like TV producers or podcasters. So I need to come up with another Jen jargon that like covers everything you know, need to come up with another gen jargon that like covers everything you know, but they have a deadline and you have a deadline in replying. And so what's really important to know is, even if it states a deadline, they may close it early if they receive enough responses. So if you see something that's like a five and you're like, oh, I'm a great fit for this, and then you wait four days because the deadline maybe was like a week from then, unfortunately, you may miss the boat. So a lot of this is the right timing, the right fit and having the right thing to say that they think could be it could enhance their article or their podcast.
Natasha Clawson:So no procrastinating, we need to strike when the iron is hot for this. Yes, so this has been interesting talking about. You know how people can approach things so they can look at some of these resources like Harrow and Quoted, to see some of these warmer leads what people are looking for. They could find like.
Natasha Clawson:And one of the things I love to recommend to people is find podcasts that are with your audience, because the thing that some people don't think about because they think it's intimidating and get on something, but a podcast that's coming out once a week. They need content every week and, just like you said, the timing is right. They don't always have a lineup of people waiting to do the podcast, especially if they're. You know I'm not talking like the huge top of the charts ones, but you know there's tons of large audience podcasts, but they still need content. So they can be easier than you think. And, jen, we touched just briefly on a program which you have coming up called Start your Press, which I was actually a student of, I believe, last year. So I would love to chat a little bit about this, because this is a two-day intensive where people can be helped through some of the things that we've talked today just on a more in depth level to get them started on this journey.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah. So this, this has been an idea that I've had for years and last year I finally decided to press play with it and I'm so glad I did Because it's been so rewarding and I think I've had four intensive so far. So the next one's coming up in just a few weeks and you're right, it's a two-day intensive where basically the promise is that you'll leave understanding how to be your own best publicist and really be active on these platforms, or knowing how to pitch yourself in a generative way. I kind of present a whole smorgasbord and share like a lot of different opportunities that are available and then I help people kind of hone in on like what's the right fit for you, because you don't have to throw all the spaghetti against the wall to see traction. So I kind of share like here's everything you could do, and now we're going to whittle it down and create your specific media strategy. Everything you could do, and now we're going to whittle it down and create your specific media strategy. And so I come from my own background as a journalist and I think one of the most helpful parts of it is I teach people how to pitch, because if you don't know how to pitch, unfortunately, this work isn't going to go anywhere. So really understanding, like, what is pitch format? What do you include in a pitch? What don't you do in a pitch, what could be a potential pet peeve, you know, for someone on the other side, and just trying to really equip people to know how to use this approach Because, like we said in the beginning, you know it's not just for, like, the upper echelon, you know, of entrepreneurs. This is something that anyone can do, that is available to all of us. So it's a real passion for me to wake people up to this and, like, turn them on to it, because a lot of them didn't know about any of these things, you know, before they stepped into that Zoom room, and so it's really exciting for me to watch how energized they get by it and what they do with it.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And I will say I had an interior designer. I think she might have even been in your group, I can't remember. I had an interior designer come through and she was really serious about this. Like she had told me for quite a while she wanted to do it and then she did it and she hit the ground running and she did it all on her own after Start your Press and within a month I'm not even kidding, within a month she was in Martha Stewart apartment therapy, the kitchen woman and home. I'm not, literally within a month. It was amazing. She basically built her featured in section and I will.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And, by the way, if you're listening to this, you're like I've tried this and it's taken me a year. You know, interior designer is one of, I would say, five to 10 occupations that every single day you will see something that you can apply for. So interior designers and super high demand and she really capitalized on that and it's great. So there are certain occupations that you may need to kind of bide your time and like wait a little longer. And I would say both of us are kind of more in that category, you know, and both of us have been able to see traction, you know. So I think anyone can see traction with this. But please don't be discouraged if you're like, oh my gosh, like I've been trying this and I haven't seen anything, because not everyone has that like super high volume and demand. But everyone can find opportunities if you stick with this long enough.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, definitely so for start your press. Can you tell me when it is and how much it is, Because I think it's pretty affordable for what you're offering.
Jen Jones Donatelli:I'm pulling up my calendar just to make sure that I get it correct. So the next one is November 19th and 20th, and it's from 11 am to 2.30 pm Eastern both of those days on Zoom, and I charge $2.79 for the two days and there's also an early bird rate of, I believe, $2.59 through November 11. This may be posted after that. So if you are listening to this and you want to take advantage of that, you can email me at jen at creative groovecom. I will extend that $20 discount to you. So in fact, I'll just create a code.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Let's call it Natasha, I'll create a code. It'll give you $20 off. So if you're listening to this and you missed the early bird, I won't be able to do the $20 off the early bird, but if, if you are listening to this after November 11th, you can still take advantage of that $20. So I would love to have anyone listening to this who this is really on their radar, but they're maybe not sure where to start or how to start or even how to keep going. If you've been trying this and you haven't been seeing the results, this would be a great fit for you.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, and I would say I'm not an affiliate for Jen, so no, no affiliate here. But I have taken this and I don't think that you can find a more affordable like this is a no brainer to me at that price. This and you do recordings of it too, jen, do they get a recording of the two days?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, I do do a recording, but I'll be honest, the real magic is coming live, because we workshop things in the moment and I really try to tailor the content to the people in the room. So, like, if there's a career coach in the room, chances are. I found an example that applies to you, you know. So, yes, you can watch the recording, but if you can't attend live, I'd probably encourage you to come at a different time, because I do these about four times a year.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah, and totally correct. You definitely need to do it live. My only point with that was that you have it to reference to come back to, because sometimes that's helpful. But definitely attend that live if you're doing it again. Super affordable price engine. Where can they purchase that or sign up?
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, if you just go to creative groovecom, um, you'll see it from the homepage and you can link. You know you can click and learn more and sign up, if you'd wish to sign up and, again, I will be hosting a number of these in 2025. If you're like, hey, you know my rest of the year is accounted for, but this speaks to you or you're listening to this, next year, join us, because this work keeps building and I have a lot more I'll be doing with it. So I'd love to kind of welcome you into the fold and see what's possible for you media wise.
Natasha Clawson:Yeah and I know I've already mentioned this a couple of times but this is it's so affordable. This is a no brainer. And if I was starting over again as an entrepreneur and I was trying to gain traction and build my social media and all of the things, this is something that I would do in the first 12 months is start going after media exposure. So definitely check that out, jen. I'd love to wrap this up. It's been so interesting talking about these different things. I think some really useful tips in here about how someone could approach this on their own and kind of get their feet wet or work with you further. So I would love to wrap it up today by asking you is there anything else you wanted to share? And then one final question is if you have any advice for your younger self.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Yeah, the only other thing I would share is I also do one-on-one work with people around this. So you know, if you would rather just kind of jump to that or if you want to have a discussion around that, again you can go to creativegroupcom and just contact me and we can set up a consult. And again you can go to creativegroovecom and just contact me and we can set up a consult. It kind of just depends on if you want to kind of do this the DIY way, or if you really want kind of a thought partner and strategist working hand in hand with you around this, or if you maybe don't have the time to implement it, you want me kind of on the ground monitoring for you. That might be a great fit for one on one. So I offer both these kind of intensives with the promise of becoming your own best publicist and you can take the tools and rock it. Or if you're like, look, you know I really need somebody to like be my partner through this, then we could talk about one-on-one as well. And as far as the question about the advice I would give my younger self, I think the advice I would give my younger self, I think the advice I would give my younger self is based on my favorite TED Talk, which I actually just watched two nights ago, but it's Emily Wapnick's talk about being a multi-potentialite, which has been viewed 8 million times. I just learned that. But it's really about giving yourself permission to be multi-passionate. You know, to not be ashamed of that, but to lean into it and really treat it as a superpower than a setback, because next year I'll have been employed self employed, sorry for 20 years.
Jen Jones Donatelli:And you know, in the beginning, as a freelancer, I was doing a lot of different things. You know, I was writing for lots of different magazines and websites, editing copywriting. Back then I was even doing some web design. You know, I was like photography, and I think I at times would almost like hide that from people because I felt like they would think I was scattered or, you know, not really understand what I did. You know, and now I'm just kind of like this is what makes me unique as a creative and as a person. You know, not really understand what I did, you know, and now I'm just kind of like this is what makes me unique as a creative and as a person, you know. So I think if I could go back to my younger self, I would just say own your multi potentiality, to use Emily's word. You know and treat it as a gift rather than something that you have to kind of like shroud from people.
Natasha Clawson:That's so powerful. I think it just speaks to showing up fully, like really just fully, showing yourself, fully being visible, as we discussed before. Well, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you, jen. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Jen Jones Donatelli:Oh my gosh, Natasha, I love what you're up to with the podcast and it's just so much fun you know being in your world, so thanks for having me.
Natasha Clawson:All right, we'll see you next time.
