What No One Tells You About Messaging (And Why It’s Costing You Clients)

If writing about your business feels harder than taxes with a toddler… you’re not alone.

Messaging and copywriting trip up even the savviest entrepreneurs! In this episode, I’m joined by brand messaging strategist and website copywriter Stacy Eleczko for a convo that will totally change the way you think about how you talk about your business.

We’re pulling back the curtain on what actually makes copy convert—and why so many entrepreneurs are skipping the foundational steps that make marketing way harder than it needs to be.

Whether you’re tired of dead-end discovery calls or just want your website to pull its weight, this episode is packed with gold:

✨ The difference between positioning, messaging, and copy (and why it matters)
 ✨ What strong messaging really looks like—and how it helps you stand out
✨ How to do voice-of-customer research (even if you don’t have a big audience)

By the end of this convo, you’ll feel clear, empowered, and ready to share your work in a way that connects and converts.

About Stacy Eleczko:

If writing about your brand feels harder than explaining taxes to a toddler, you’re not alone. Stacy Eleczko is a brand messaging strategist and website copywriter who helps service-based, impact-driven businesses ditch the fluff and craft messaging that earns trust, drives action, and makes people say, ‘Hell yes, I need this.’ She blends strategy, buyer psychology, and creativity to turn complex ideas into clear, compelling, and high-converting copy—without the jargon or gimmicks. Because great copy isn’t about sounding clever—it’s about making an impact.

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Transcript

Copy

Natasha (00:01.934)

Hey everyone and welcome to the show.

If writing about your brand feels harder than explaining taxes to a toddler, you are so not alone and you are also in luck because today's guest episode, Stacey Alesco is a brand messaging strategist and website copywriter who helps service based businesses ditch the fluff and craft messaging that earns trust, drives action and makes people say, hell yes, I need this. So if you are looking to sell something more expensive, looking to gain more leads from your website, really figure out what's not working.

about your copy right now, this is the episode for you. There are so many awesome takeaways from today, so definitely don't skip this one. We're gonna jump in right now.

Stacy Eleczko (00:00.129)

me.

Hey Stacey, welcome to the show.

Stacy Eleczko (00:14.818)

Hey, Natasha, thanks for having me on.

Natasha (00:17.402)

So excited about this conversation today and we're going to just dive right into the nitty gritty, which is, know, copy and messaging get thrown around a lot. And what is even the difference between these and why are they important for small businesses?

Stacy Eleczko (00:31.192)

Yes, those are so confused so often, not just by like customers and clients, right, but by marketers too. And the other word that I see that gets thrown in there that's confused a lot is positioning. So I'd kind of like to start with that one actually, because I think they all build on each other. So positioning is, you know, figuring out first, where do you fit in the market? Because I think so often people go straight to copy.

want to just write things, but they haven't figured out these foundational pieces, which are the positioning, right, and the, the messaging. And so I like to think of positioning as it's your foundation of where you fit in. Right. And the messaging is it's the strategy, it's how are you going to articulate the thing you want to say about how you're positioned in the market. And so messaging is kind of it's kind of the framework, it's very strategic.

And it's the idea of what's the key thing I want people to really know and remember about me and my brand. How do I want to talk about my business and how do I want others to talk about my business? And once I have those strategical pieces in place, I think of copy as more tactical, right? It's okay. Now I know what I want to say. How am I going to say it? What are the exact words I'm going to use? So I always like to think of the analogy of when you go to a networking event.

you have to do, you know, the dreaded 30 second introduction of yourself. And for me, I used to like, it used to be the hardest thing to do. And I would struggle. And I even tried writing a script of what to say. And it always felt so forced until I really figure out what's my messaging? What is it that I want people to know? And once I understood that piece, how I said it could be different each time, right? The words themselves might be slightly different, just like

Your headline might be different than a subject line or a topic for a LinkedIn post, but that underlying piece of what I do, what sets me apart was the same every time.

Natasha (02:27.791)

I think that example is so helpful and I think so many people on this call can relate. I used to run a networking group and I actually had someone say to me that she was embarrassed to go back to another networking group because she's, you know, keeps trying on this different messaging, but she wasn't getting it right. And she's like, I just feel like I'm having an identity crisis and what are people going to think? So people I'm sure can really relate to that. Do you have any tips? I know when you work with clients positioning, you know, there's research and things that you do for them, but for someone who's

just starting kind of on this journey, how does someone even start to figure out their positioning?

Stacy Eleczko (03:02.84)

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think, you know, it's even more basic than that. We have to start with the fundamentals. And I think sometimes people think there are pieces that don't relate to our messaging or our marketing that really do. So I always want you to think first about what's your mission, what's your vision, and what are your values? Because when you know where you're headed and how you do things and really your values, what's non-negotiable in your business, that's the foundation for how you're going to talk about what you do.

And so I think that's the first place that you need to start. And a lot of people skip that. And a lot of people skip the next thing I think you need to do, which is competitor research too. So it's just looking at who are other people in your space. And like, when I do this for my clients, I go very in depth. do client interviews and launch surveys. But really what you could do is just figure out who are the other people offering similar services in my space? What are the things that they're saying? And once you have an understanding of

what you want to do and what you want to accomplish and how you want to get there. And you know how other people in your space are doing those things. Then that's when you can start to think about where do I fit into this? Right? What's my position in the market where I am being competitive with what other people are offering, but where I'm also giving myself the opportunity to stand out and to show the value I bring that's different than what other people bring. So I think it's just a matter of like,

really figuring out who you are, what you want in your business, and then just taking a peek at the landscape.

Natasha (04:38.617)

Yeah, I think that's so important and earlier on when I was doing websites years ago, I was working with kind of newer clients and what I realized is that so many people do not have those foundational elements done. And so, you know, the first thing they go, I need a website because I have a business, but really this foundational piece had not been set yet and they got a little bit stuck. And so this is what I've learned over the years is that really is something that a lot of people are skipping upfront and it's causing a lot of challenges. So

With that, a lot of entrepreneurs do skip this. What are some of the consequences of not getting this done upfront and where do you see that?

Stacy Eleczko (05:15.726)

Yeah, wow. That's a, that's a really good question. Cause I see the same thing too. And that's actually why I started doing messaging strategies because people were coming to me for the copywriting for their website. And I was like, I can write words that are going to sound nice for you, but they're not actually going to do anything because there's no strategy behind them. And so I think, you know, the reason why

The reason why it's really important is because it shows us other problems later in our business. We think we have a sales problem or we think that we have a lead generation problem. When people are saying things like, I keep ending up on discovery calls that go nowhere, or I'm getting these bad bits on discovery calls, people who don't really need my service, they're not my ideal client. We try all these other strategies.

where let's hire someone to write our website copy for us. Or maybe we need to go all in on all these social media platforms. Or maybe we need to think about our funnels and our flywheels. And really none of that works if you don't have that framework first of what is my messaging? What is the thing that I need to communicate clearly in a way that helps people know what to value about my work? Because I think a big consequence is you see other people

winning business that you know could be business, it could be clients that your offer is perfect for, right? Like you have this great offer, it helps people, but you can't clearly explain that to them. And so then they end up working with somebody who can explain their value. So I think it just shows up as all of these other issues that we think are really the problem. And we end up spending a lot of time and a lot of money fixing symptoms.

Natasha (07:05.839)

Yeah, and I think that is so important. I see so many people struggling, you know, and what it becomes, you know, like when they can't sell something, it starts to become almost a question of self-worth, like, you know, maybe my product's not good, maybe all of these things, and really there's some tweaks in, you know, presenting it, like just how you said, how do I show the value to the clients because they really are missing out on helping people who they really want to help, and this is the thing that's important for me is most of the people I work with

You know, they're not doing something just to make money. Of course, money is important. We need that to live, but they're doing something because they really want to help people and have an impact in the world. And so being able to get this foundational messaging and really connect with the people that they want to is so important, which leads into my next question, which is something that we both share in common is that we really like relationship-based, empathy-based and connection-based marketing. And I'd love for you to just kind of unpack that a little bit. How does that build trust with your audience and why is that, you know, a method that you like?

Stacy Eleczko (08:05.08)

Yeah, that's a really good question. So I like to start that conversation thinking about the idea of evoking emotion versus exploiting emotion. And so I see so many tactics being talked about or being used that really exploit emotion. And those are things like pain agitation. So let me figure out the pain that you're experiencing.

And then let me twist that knife until you feel that pain so badly that you need to use my solution. And if you there's marketing that makes you feel bad about yourself, that is not connection based marketing or empathy driven marketing. And so I think people get confused because absolutely you should be talking to the emotions. That's how we connect with people. Right. For me to say to someone, you know,

you're stressed out because you've rewritten that headline 17 times and you're tired of staring at a blinking cursor, right? And those kinds of things help connect with people because then they understand, oh, she gets me like she understands what I'm going through. She knows my problems. And then that, you know, and that's a great way to connect and start to build that relationship with people where they see that you get them. And then you can offer a solution. But so many

So much marketing gets a bad rep because unfortunately there are people who will take it that one step farther. And they make you feel bad about your problem or make you feel like it's your fault or like you're doing it all wrong. And so it's just about making sure you're using genuine tactics to connect. I also think that it's really important. You need to know your audience. Sometimes I talk to so many of my clients who

are kind of scared to have conversations, really digging in and it feels uncomfortable to ask people about what's really bothering them. But until we can hear it from our clients, we can't really understand what they're going through. So I think it's about listening to what people are really saying, what's really bothering them, and then figuring out, does my solution meet their need? And if it does, how do I tell them that?

Stacy Eleczko (10:17.76)

in a way, how do I connect the dots for them from this is the problem you have to here's how my solution can help you so that you no longer feel burnt out or stressed or whatever the case is, and you can feel this way instead in your business.

Natasha (10:33.359)

Yeah, I really love the differentiation that you made of exploitative versus evoking emotion because I think a lot of the people I've struggled with, sorry, talked with struggle with the fact that they feel like a lot of marketing is driven towards exploiting a pain point and so then they don't market enough at all and that's a whole different problem. it's how can you uncover a pain point and connect with someone around that and show them how you can give that transformation.

And it's a fine line that I think people struggle with. So I love that differentiation. For people who are looking to learn more from their clients, you said sometimes that's challenging for them. Do you have any tips on how they can ask and dig into some of those and get some of that information?

Stacy Eleczko (11:19.37)

I do this actually one of my favorite things to talk about. that information is really everywhere. And I would say if you're nervous to actually have those conversations, there are some places that you can look to find that. So if you have reviews or testimonials, that's a great place to look because people are talking about what their problem was, how you solved it. Same thing for competitors, other people who offer the same thing. And like one of my favorite tips is actually to find really bad reviews because people will say,

this was my problem and I didn't get it solved and here's why. And it helps you to understand how they talk about their problem. And then, wait a minute, I can speak to that piece. So competitors, reviews, testimonials, your reviews and testimonials are fantastic. I record every discovery call that I have with all of my clients. And if you are, know some industries, you're not able to do that. So if you can't do that,

take really great notes, you know, when people are, when you say something that either makes someone lean in, or when they're talking to you about the thing that's keeping them up at night, the problem that they want to solve jot down those words, because that language is so powerful. You go back to the idea you asked before about connecting, right? That's how I connect when I'm using the same language that you're using to talk about the thing that's really bothering you. So that's another great place. I also love to do

client interviews, client surveys, and just asking questions about, you know, what was your problem before? What are you experiencing now? What motivated you to buy? Those are great, great places. And then if you're a Reddit fan, it's so easy to go down a Reddit rabbit hole, but I absolutely love Reddit. If you find the right threads,

to look through the correct subreddits, then there's a gold mine of information as long as you know it's your target audience that is talking. And you can hear again the language and the things that are bothering them. A couple other places is just be where your clients are. So are they in forums? Are they in Facebook groups? Are there industry events? Have conversations? And then my favorite platform to grow my business is LinkedIn. So I am constantly taking screenshots.

Stacy Eleczko (13:38.698)

of DMs of comments on my post comments on other people's posts. And really, I would say like, if you do nothing else, that's one of the most powerful things that you can do, because it will help you figure out your messaging. And it will help you think about how do I connect with them? What is it that they really care about?

Natasha (13:58.064)

Yeah, I love that. And as you were talking about the discovery calls, if there's something that someone can record, you know, can take transcripts of that and have chat GPT pull out commonalities between different ones that, you know, might take you a while to figure out. So that could be an interesting use of that too. so strong messaging and copy is important and we've already established a bit that it can help people sell, but for someone who like it's maybe, you know, getting decently it's, but they're really trying to take it to the next level. How does that strong.

messaging and copy really differentiate them and help them sell more than someone else.

Stacy Eleczko (14:34.658)

really good question. I think it's the idea. Well, unlike what you said, I like this idea of thinking about where they are in their business. Because one thing I do always caution people to do is there's a time when you want to invest in messaging, whether that's your time or your money, whatever it is that you're investing into your messaging and your copywriting, there's a time that you want to do that. And the start of your business is not always the time to do that, right? You have to have a proven offer, you need to know who you serve. So when you're at the place where you're like, okay, no, you know, I'm getting my clients great, great results.

they're telling me they get great results, but I'm not getting the leads that I want. That's exactly the time to start doing it. And I would say

really the... Can you repeat your question again? I think I sidetracked myself.

Natasha (15:19.695)

No, totally. I do that all the time. So how can strong messaging and copy help someone who's, you know, kind of at this level where they're selling a decent amount, but they're ready to kind of just amp it up? How does that really help differentiate them compared to someone who's not doing that?

Stacy Eleczko (15:33.058)

That's a great question. Yeah. So I think the difference is that they are seeing you can consistently communicate the same message in a compelling way. So people who really have a solid grasp on their messaging, going back to the idea of like LinkedIn, their posts every time I have an understanding, I know what to expect from them, whether it's on their posts, it's in their comments. I know the thing that they're talking about. Right. And so the advantage that it gets you is people start to associate you.

with the thing, you become top of mind. Right. And that's the really the difference once you've nailed your messaging, and you are consistently communicating that across all your platforms, and people who are still sort of struggling to figure that out. There's a clarity, a level of clarity. So going back to that networking example before, right, if you can't clearly articulate what you do, then how can other people they can't understand what your value is.

They can't understand how to refer you. So I think that's another important thing that happens as you start getting more referrals, because you, you teach people how to talk about your business and what you do and what sets you apart, essentially. And then with copy, you know, it's, it's easier to figure out how to write compellingly about something when you know with clarity what it is you're trying to say.

So a lot of times people will go to go to the copy first and they're sitting there, you know, banging their head against the wall, trying to figure out how to get the headline just right. That becomes so much easier when you know what the message is that you're trying to get that headline to convey. Does that answer your question?

Natasha (17:12.281)

Yeah, it totally does. I think that's so helpful because I love going back to the story brand is where I learned it, but that confused people don't buy and so often people are trying to do too much. Like, you know, it sounds all fancy. It's got like a lot of jargon in there, but people walk away and they're like, I don't know what the heck they're selling. Like, and it would be better for you to have one line that's like, I sell T-shirts and people are like, he's the T-shirt guy.

Then you know, I saw and people just can't even remember and their eyes are rolling up at their head So that's so important and I also love that you said that there's a time and a place to invest in these things because as an entrepreneur starting out You know if you need strategic copy and messaging and branding and everything But you haven't figured out what your offer is or any of these things you're gonna burn an incredible amount of money and not necessarily get the results because you're still evolving that offer and that's

really heartbreaking because most people only have so much money to invest, especially as a small business or solopreneur. So I think that's great advice there. For the people who aren't ready to invest in something, do you have any simple tips on where they can get started to improve their messaging before they've reached that level?

Stacy Eleczko (18:24.718)

Yeah, I mean, that's, I would go back to what I was mentioning earlier, that voice of customer language, the reviews, the testimonials, the hearing what people are talking about. And I would just start there. Because if you know that those are your ideal clients, and the kinds of clients that you want to attract more of, if you can use their language, then that's a great start. And the other thing I would say is like,

Don't be afraid to just put it out there and experiment and try and social media is a great place to do that because social media is a blip on the radar, right? So if you put out a post or something and it flops, first of all, nobody saw it anyway, so it doesn't matter, right? But second of all, it's gonna be gone in a week or two, but it gives you the opportunity to start to figure out what connects because people will start, you know, quoting a line from something you said or, wow, that part was really powerful.

And that's how you can start to think about what are the things that I say, what are people saying that connect with the people that I want to reach? And so I would just really start by putting yourself out there, getting in conversations, paying attention, and then also, you know, find other people who are ahead of you, who are already doing the thing that you're doing and follow along and see what are the things that they're talking about.

and what's resonating with their clients, not for the sake of imitation, but to figure out, know, what does that look like? I know that this person does this thing because they always talk about it. And I think when you can start to see how other people are doing that, it makes it a little easier for you to play around and start doing that yourself. You know, and I think also connecting with just asking people when you write something, whether it's

you're trying to tweak your your website or your email and you have someone that you know fits your target audience, shoot it over to them and ask them, does this resonate with you? And my caution with that is it's not about whether or not it resonates with you as the entrepreneur, right? Because you may or may not be your ideal client. But and it's, you know, I asked my husband to read things for me a lot. It makes sense. He's a small business owner, right? Like he really is in my target audience. But

Stacy Eleczko (20:38.9)

I know people who have had their spouses do that or their spouse is nothing to do. They're not in their target market at all. So just be strategic and just get feedback.

Natasha (20:47.723)

love, love, love that advice because what I tell people when they're reviewing something and like, if your mom is gonna review it, if she's in your target audience, that's totally fine. If she's not, then you have to take that feedback with a grain of salt because if she's not in your target audience, she could be giving you advice that's totally counter. So I love that advice and I really am glad you brought up the social media too. You know, a lot of people don't love putting themselves out there on social media, but it's true. It is actually pretty low stakes because if it's not great content, it's not gonna go super far.

And so you have this opportunity every day to post one or more posts and get this valuable feedback without having to invest in a whole blog post or podcast. And you can ask questions and do polls and it's a gold mine for content and know, AB testing and all of the things to figure out what really resonates. So I think that's fabulous advice.

I know that you offer your own one-to-one copy and messaging services. I'd love to hear a little bit about that. I know you also have a Done With You, which is a little bit more affordable for someone who's looking to make the sleep, but maybe can't afford the one-on-one. So we'd love to hear about what you do and where people can find you online.

Stacy Eleczko (21:57.102)

Yeah, absolutely. So as you mentioned, I offer both. So I have both messaging strategy and website or other copywriting packages, where I can really dig in, do all that research. And that's the other piece, right? Like, so little of it is actually writing. It's that research, it's probably 80 % of what I do is uncovering what makes brands tick. So I have, you know, client interviews, surveys, all the things that I'll launch for you and do some in depth review.

and so that you can have a messaging strategy that you can use to inform future copy and websites. But like you said, there was this gap of people who were coming to me, wanted to work with me, but weren't yet at a place where they could afford those services. And I started looking at done with you services, both for messaging and for copywriting. And what I found is a lot of people were calling done with you services, really something where it was like, buy my workbook and then go do this yourself. And I don't feel like that's really collaborative or helpful.

So I did create both a done with you website and a done with you messaging program that includes my one to one strategy and feedback on the front and the back end so that you can walk away with something that is as close to done for you without having it done for you. And I think that's also really powerful because there's something about especially the messaging when you're part of doing that, this understanding and clarity you have around your business and how it makes

everything else easier. I also offer strategy sessions if you just want a one-off or copy audits where you can get a second set of eyes and kind of hear what's working and what needs tweaks.

Natasha (23:34.427)

That's fabulous. So before we wrap up, my favorite question to ask everyone is, what is one piece of advice you would have for your younger self?

Stacy Eleczko (23:44.086)

Yeah, I, there's a lot of advice I'd my younger self. I would say, like really adopting for me this idea of progress over perfection. And that I love I read the other day, somebody said, practice makes progress. Practice doesn't make perfect. And I was always so caught up in having to have something done just the right way or feeling like I had

Natasha (23:47.432)

Right.

Stacy Eleczko (24:12.47)

every, you know, every t cross and every i dotted before I could move forward with something. But really, it's that that stage of putting things out there and doing things even when you feel like they're not ready yet, where you're going to have the most, just the most satisfaction and success. And it's okay to be uncomfortable in that, like that's that's where the growth comes from is that discomfort. And so I think just let things go and just do the thing before you think you're ready to do the thing.

Natasha (24:41.935)

Yeah, I love that because I think especially now today more than ever, things aren't ever really necessarily done, especially in an online business. They're actually just an evolution. And maybe that's actually always been the case because I love to share with people that I went to the Guinness factory in Ireland and they have this entire brand wall of the Guinness logo and how it's evolved over time. Cause you know, we just experienced a snapshot of how the logo is now and we think that's how it was forever, but like,

It used to be something crazy and totally different and it's just evolved over time. So that's such great advice. And you know, as a brand designer myself, I just love hearing everything you're talking about messaging. It resonates with me so much. Can tell you've been doing this for a while. So I love all the advice that we had today and I think this is going to be really beneficial for our audience. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Stacy Eleczko (25:31.042)

Yeah, thank you so much. enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me.

Natasha (25:34.512)

All right, bye everyone.