Getting Booked and Building Buzz with Podcast Tours

In this episode, I’m joined by visibility strategist Jenn from Visibility Ecosystem to talk about one of the most underutilized marketing tools out there — podcast tours. Whether you’re launching something new, trying to expand your reach, or just plain tired of social media, this episode breaks down how podcast guesting can help you build buzz and attract dream clients.

We talk about:

• What a podcast tour actually is 
• Why smaller, niche shows might bring you better results than the big names
• How to prep your funnel and tracking before you start pitching
• The difference between drip tours and batch booking (and how to choose what’s right for you)
• How to pitch even if you’re newer in business or don’t have a big audience yet
• Real-world examples of clients using podcast tours to book $2K+ clients, pivot their audience, and grow their reach

If you’ve been looking for a more authentic, relationship-driven way to show up and get visible, then make sure to listen to this episode!

About Jenn Zellers

Jenn is a visibility strategist for established online business owners who want to spend more time on what they love than on marketing. Unlike other marketing strategists, she and the Visibility Ecosystem team use speaking and collaborations as marketing seeds so you're always doing or talking about your work... even when you're not "marketing"!

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES

• Follow Jenn on IG!
• Email Jenn to get the Podcast Tour support you need at hello@visibilityecosystem.com

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Transcript

Natasha (00:00)
Hello and welcome to the show, Jen.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (00:02)
Hello, thank you so much for having me, I'm excited.

Natasha (00:05)
I am so excited to have you here. got the privilege to sit in on a webinar with you a few weeks ago and I thought it was such great information on podcast tours because I've seen them, like I've started to notice lots of celebrities going on and promoting their books.

I've recommended them even to my clients, but I've never seen someone doing it as a service. And I thought this would be a fabulous episode for our listeners. So I'd love to just kind of jump into it and even tell everyone what exactly is a podcast tour and how can it support their businesses, especially for authors, coaches, and speakers.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (00:37)
So that is definitely a good question because different people have different definitions of a podcast tour. So my definition is having a list of podcasts I give my clients 20 to 30 of them that are the right fit because we're looking for quality over quantity We're not going to be one of those pitch agencies where somebody pays them $3,000 a month to pitch them to a hundred podcasts and they just kind of run down a list regardless of if it's a right fit or not, so

having a list of podcasts that are the right fit, that are easy to manage in there. So we use Airtable for our clients and then you can pitch them in different ways. So some folks will go and do like four or five a day and get through the entire list in a week and then just keep doing follow up until they book them. I have other clients who will go and do what we call a drip tour. So they might pit. have one of them who she pitches typically one or two a week.

And then she usually has a 60 to 75 % booking rate and so she'll book two to four a month based on pitching one or two, one or two a week. And that way she's able to drip it out. she they're not all going to come out at the same intervals, but she has a better chance of them kind of slowly dripping out. So she has consistent content to market rather than having all of them come out, come out at once. But maybe you're an author or you have a launch coming up.

And so you probably, like you said, have seen celebrities with books going and doing podcast tours because they're using it as part of their launch. So in that case, I usually recommend that clients start three to six months out from that launch date because it often has a bit of turnaround. You've got to take some time to actually get booked. And then the podcast host is typically going to have one to three, sometimes even six, depending on what their content calendar looks like.

months between the recording date and when it actually airs. And so that way if you want everything coming out at once so you have a bit of a media blitz then you can do it that way too. So we've got the big batch or the drip tour is typically how my clients end up doing it.

Natasha (02:39)
Yeah, and you do really have to plan ahead and there's got to be some flexibility because like you said, some podcasts will turn it around in a week or two if they're kind of recording and putting them out as they go or the bigger podcasts. A lot of them are booked out even months in advance. And one thing I'd love to ask is because I think sometimes people think, you know, only if the big podcasts, but I'm sure especially for smaller business owners, just getting on even smaller podcasts with, you know, limited audiences is a great way for them to get exposed to

audiences and I'm sure this is why you pick specific podcasts is so that they can get in front of the people they actually want to talk to because you could get on a huge podcast and get in front of a lot of people who don't want to buy your services or you could get in front of a hundred people on a small podcast that you're likely to land so

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (03:26)
Yeah, that is also a really good one because people do typically go, I want to be on the Amy Porterfield podcast or something like that, which sure, that can be great if it's the right audience. But the other thing, like you said, like the smaller audiences that are more niche that really, really trust the podcast host, maybe they've actually gotten to talk to that person. And so they trust that person to bring on guests who are going to really bring value.

that can actually go a lot farther because those people are to be more qualified than somebody with tens of thousands of downloads on every episode where people are just kind of tuning in to see if maybe it's something of interest. Whereas these folks in this niche podcast know that this is what they want to hear about, that the host is only bringing on people who are going to help them with the same kind of stuff that they are looking for from the host. And so, yeah, honestly, I usually tend to have a mix of

the podcast sizes. it is one thing I will say is really, really hard to actually know how many listeners somebody has. The stats, even as a podcast host, you do not have reliable stats. There are certain podcast hosts that are more reliable than others. And there is a podcast metrics standard. So if there is somebody who's hosting with that, like we're building out actually a podcast guest research tool so that helping people

as guests find podcasts and that is one of the things we're struggling with is how do we estimate the audience size. So take any estimates that you find on a search tool with a grain of salt. A lot of them are basing it on public follower numbers and stuff like that, but they have no idea how many people are on an email list. So instead, what I recommend for folks who are doing this on their own and don't have access to those kind of tools is to actually go and look at engagement. Go and see

is this person engaging with people on social media? there, when they post something, are people commenting and they're replying back and not just letting those comments sit and mold? And so if, as long as the host is actually engaging with the audience, the audience is probably going to engage back and you're more likely to get those qualified leads coming in. So yeah, just having a mix of like the big names and I wouldn't go too big. wouldn't, I never put Amy Porterfield.

on a client's list, you want kind of the medium to small ones. And it's actually totally fine to go on a podcast that's brand new. And by brand new, I mean like 25 to 50 episodes or less. That typically is someone, if they're posting once a week, that's six to 12 months. That means they're relatively, like they're established. If you get past nine episodes, usually you've got your rhythm down, you're gonna keep going. So mix of newer and established podcasts, and then a mix of

estimated audience size is usually a good bed for a podcast tour.

Natasha (06:20)
Yeah, I think that's fabulous advice, especially in 2025. I think follower count is less relevant because algorithms are showing content based on relevancy. So posts are going viral not because people have large following count, but because it's good content. And so that engagement is so important. So I'm glad that you highlighted that. So if someone wants to go run out and do a podcast tour,

Like what foundational pieces should they have in place before they start pitching? Because sometimes we get excited but we haven't put those foundational pieces in place.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (06:50)
Yes,

there are definitely a few things that I recommend having before you actually go do this. And some of it, you may start pitching before you have it all fully dialed in, like your speaking funnel. You want to have at least the bare basics of like a small nurture sequence set up, but you may have some other stuff that you add on as you go. Because like we said, a podcast episode is probably going to take one to three, maybe even six months to come out after you record. So you have a little bit of wiggle room to play with that timeline.

But you do want that speaking funnel in place because you want a lead magnet that is going to convert. And that could be anything from what we consider like a typical traditional lead magnet of a download or a course or even AI tools these days. But it could also be something like my client Sam, who's a web designer. She goes and does these website audits instead. So it's a lot more one-on-one. She has to do actual work for them. It takes her about 15 minutes.

to record, like review the website, record some feedback and send them a video, but it gets her much more qualified leads because these people are actually clearly interested in the web design services that she has to offer. So you wanna make sure you have that dialed in so that as soon as people come in, you're nurturing them towards a sale, however that ends up looking for you. You also wanna make sure you have a follow-up system. If you are not following up with the podcast that you pitch, it's gonna be a whole lot harder to book them.

because people are busy, their inboxes are flooded, you miss emails. It just is how it works. So I've had folks where I've followed up five times and it's on that fifth email where they go, my gosh, I am so sorry. I kept seeing this and it kept getting buried and I'm so glad you kept popping it up because I really do want to have you on the podcast. So it's okay to follow up multiple times. Typically my clients are doing it three to five times and...

that we play with that. I've had a client who I was doing the pitching for her and she was like, yeah, two, maybe three times is plenty. I'm not, really happy with the bookings we've got already, so I'm not too worried about it. Other folks are like, no, I want to get all the bookings that we can. So five to seven times, whatever feels good to you is totally fine. yeah, the, so speaking funnel, follow-up system, and just somewhere to track it.

So when I'm building out my clients podcast tours, I include in their air table hub, a quick little thing that is going to automatically create what is called a UTM parameter URL. And so that way it is going to go and automatically add the podcast name, the fact that it's coming from a podcast. So when they're looking at their analytics for their website, they can see where that traffic is coming from. And you can even set up certain opt-in forms. Like I use convert box.

I can set it up so that it automatically pulls in the information of what podcast this was and I can tag them inside of my email marketing provider. So you want to have some sort of tracking system so that you know, these are the podcasts that I'm pitching. These are the ones I'm currently in follow up with. This one is booked, but hasn't recorded yet. This is recorded, but not aired. This one aired. And you want to make sure you keep following up periodically with the podcast hosts. So you can set up automations.

to make sure that you're following up after the podcast has aired. Because we don't want to lose track, those people can turn into really great collaborators. That is one thing that my client Jocelyn likes to do is she uses a podcast interview as kind of a testing ground for do I want to collaborate with this person further. So speaking funnel, the follow-up system and a tracking system would probably be the three things you have to have in place before you go too far into this podcast tour.

Natasha (10:30)
Yeah, that's fabulous advice. And I really love the podcast for what you just said too, is meeting people. It is a networking tool and I've made such great relationships and it actually gave me a reason to reach out to you. And I think we've got a lot of crossovers, so it's exciting to make those connections. And I mean, when you spend an hour or two talking with someone and getting to know them, like you build a relationship. And so it's a wonderful tool for that. And I love that you mentioned using a project management tool. I use Monday. I see too few clients using organizational

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (10:43)
Yes.

Natasha (11:00)
systems, I think it really holds them back. And the tracking, UTMs are, you know, they're added to the end of the URL, but a lot of people are doing a lot of things and not actually able to track where the results are coming from. So I love that advice from someone who loves systems and tracking. It's really going to help people see where their time's actually well spent. So my next question is, think something that comes up. So for someone who doesn't have a big name already, they don't have a huge following, you know, maybe they're

you

know, in their first like one to three years of business, how can they position themselves as a valuable guest to get some of those spots on, you know, a podcast?

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (11:36)
Yeah, you do not have to have any type of audience. That is one of the great things about podcasts is if you can bring the value to that podcast audience, that's what a good host anyway is looking for. There are some people who unfortunately are focused on the numbers, but typically those are people who I've had clients who've taken some of the podcasts we've curated from them and come back and said, yeah, this one I pitched. And they came back and said,

that they would love to have me for $1995. So those ones usually weed themselves out. But if you are making it really clear that you're focused on the audience and what value you're bringing to them rather than on yourself or you're building your own audience, that's usually what's going to stand out to a podcast host. So when you're pitching, just make sure that you're making it about them. Talk about like how you're going to serve the audience, how you're going to promote the episode. That one.

is going to stand out and then if you have been on podcasts or have any other kind of speaking experience in the past, make sure that you're sharing that on your social media and stuff like that because if you say you're going to promote a podcast episode, a host is probably going to go check and see like are they actually promoting the podcast that they've been on and if you're not, it's going to erode your credibility a little bit. You don't have to be doing it constantly but even just like one post a month or one post a week on

your regular platforms is going to go a long way in showing them that you actually do follow through on that because most people don't. If they're lucky, they're going to have guests who are promoting one time when the episode goes out just out of obligation. They're not going to have a lot of people who are promoting it on an ongoing basis and that is going to form relationships for future collaborations. They're going to refer you to more podcast hosts in the future and it starts that snowball where

Each podcast interview turns into three more or turns into other collaboration invites and it's going to grow your visibility marketing that much more. So I just say focus on the podcast and the value that you're going to bring rather than the size of your audience. Don't mention it. Just make sure that you're sharing that value.

Natasha (13:45)
Yeah, and I love that you bring up sharing that you're going to promote that episode and how you're going to promote it because this is a huge missed opportunity for people guest posting as they go, well, the podcast host is going to share it and then they don't share it to their own audiences. That is a huge mistake. Not only is it good for relationship building, like you said, but it's more visibility for you and the podcast host who also wants to reach your audience and you can cut up these podcasts, especially if they give you access to clips or the recording and you can use this for content.

or for content for weeks, months, I mean even years of pulling these great clips, especially if they perform well, reposting them, this is endless content and credibility and you're really missing out if you're not sharing that.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (14:27)
I've actually got a little fun tip on that is the host doesn't necessarily always share clips or the full recording. I actually have a camera going right over here that is recording my side of this so I can immediately if I want to and if I've got the capacity to do so take that recording and start clipping it up myself so that way I don't have to wait for the episode to go live. I don't have to hope that the host shares the files or go and ask them for it. I've got something I can use immediately and

It also makes sure that by sharing that this is a podcast interview, you're allowing somebody else to give you that credibility. You can go and trumpet yourself all day long, but when someone else is saying, my gosh, you totally know what you're talking about, it's going to go a lot further than you saying it yourself.

Natasha (15:16)
So true, so true. It's so much easier when someone says you're fabulous and when you go, I'm fabulous. It just does not hit the same at all. So for someone listening who wants to maybe DIY, of putting their feet in the water podcast, where should they start looking to book guest spots on a podcast? And are there tools, directories, or strategies that you recommend?

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (15:37)
there are places that you can go there. See, this is the thing is I've had, I have issues with pretty much every single podcast search tool that I've used to date. And since I do this for myself and for my clients, I've used a lot of them. So it's stuff like Raphonic is probably the best one, but it's not cheap and it, it has some issues. Like it's not.

got everything that I personally would want with it. So like that's why I'm building out our own SAS tool for that. like Raffano could probably be the best one that I'd recommend. And it is like 100 bucks a month and there are some limitations on it, but it's a place to start. And then the other thing though is just start with the podcast that you listen to. If you're listening to a podcast and it's not like some huge name.

pitch the host if it's a good fit. If it's the right fit with your audience, that is one thing. You do not want to be pitching podcasts that are not the right audience and that your topic doesn't fit with. So as long as the podcast you're listening to are like that, just start pitching some of those. And then after the interview is over, if it goes well, which I'm sure it will, you can even just ask the host, Hey, is there anybody else that you think I would be a good guest for? And they'll probably recommend you either personally make an introduction or

give you a name and say that you can name drop them and you just start broadening out from there. That's usually the best way to get started.

Natasha (16:59)
That's great advice because I meet lots of people and I'm like, I want to connect you with this person and that person. And so you're tapping into a network every time you go on someone's podcast and podcasters tend to know other podcasters. So that's really great. So it sounds like the tools are a little iffy. There's some that are good, but kind of expensive. And of course I'll put out here, Jen also does podcast tours, so she can help you wade through that if you want some more hands on help with that.

So we just talked a little bit about how the topic is really important, that it fits with the audience. So a lot of people have multiple areas of expertise. I struggle with this sometimes. And it can make it to narrow it down to a topic. So what advice do you have for folks trying to choose the right focus or topic for their interviews?

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (17:45)
So

your profitable speaking topic is going to be something that ties back to your paid offers. Like if you're in business, you kind of need to make sales. That's the point of a business. So when I'm working with clients to figure out what topics they should be speaking on, I'm asking them to give me their freebies, their paid offers, and then we also look for their sweet spot. So what did they love talking about? Like if someone said, hey, talk about podcast tours for an hour. I can do that at the drop of a hat.

And then you also want to think about what questions your audience is typically asking you. I also have a little framework that I like to call the needs and wants because I don't actually want you to give the audience what they need. That is oddly a mistake for most of the time. So rather than giving the audience with, know, that they need. like, I know you need a podcast tour, but you may be sitting there saying, I'm so burned out on marketing. I do not want to make another post in Canva.

for the rest of my life, I'm so done. so instead of saying, hey, let's do a podcast or you probably don't know what that is initially. And you're like, ⁓ whatever. I don't need that. I need to not have to make Canva graphics anymore. I can say, here's a way to never have to make a Canva graphic again. That is going to catch your attention. So you want to give people what they want rather than what they need. So we take all of that information and we compile it into

kind of a Venn diagram and find that sweet spot. That is gonna be your main speaking topic. It does not have to be the only thing you talk about and you don't have to talk about it the same way every single time. Most of my clients have two to four supporting topics that we can swap out and tweak and stuff like that. And I do different angles for the topics that I'm pitching for my clients based on the podcast theme, the podcast audience and...

what season they're in. So speaking seasons is another way that I help my clients make sure that they don't have to say the same thing over and over and over again, because we do want to have consistency. We want to become known for your area of expertise and what you offer. But if you get bored of it, it kind of shows, even if the audience probably hasn't heard it, or if they have heard it, it's really good reinforcement. If you're bored with it, it's gonna come across. So

Another thing you can do is use speaking seasons, especially if you're a multi-passionate, a creative, somebody who has different things that they like to do, you can go and switch it up. So in the past, I used to focus on virtual summits and I worked with both speakers and hosts. So I would flip my seasons every quarter because in the B2B space, typically you are seeing summits for B2B getting hosted in the spring and in the fall. So summer...

I would be focusing on the speakers. Summer would be the speakers because they're getting pitched in the summer. Usually June and July they're getting pitched for the September, October summits. And then in the winter I would also be focusing on the speakers because they're getting pitched for the spring summits in that time. And then the host would be who I'm targeting on the other side because I worked with the hosts after their summit was over.

So if I'm talking to them as their summit is wrapping up, I can say, hey, this is how Evergreen summits work and why Evergreen summits are a really great benefit. So those were my speaking seasons. And I would just switch off every three months or so and it made it so I never got too bored with it. And people weren't hearing exactly the same thing all the time constantly. So they didn't get bored with it, but I was staying consistent. So there's different ways that speaking seasons may work. You may have four different speaking seasons.

It doesn't have to coincide with the actual seasons of the year, but that way you can go and have all these different angles and remain consistent without getting bored with it.

Natasha (21:37)
Yeah, I love the idea of seasons and kind of quarterly feels like a good cadence to me to be switching things up because you have time to promote, know, deliver the offers and then change to something else. Cause so many of us do entrepreneurship because we're visionaries and creatives and we love to feel like we're not bored. And when we feel bored, we do, we totally get stagnant. So I think just switching it up every quarter really helps with that. one of the questions I think some people might have is like, what kind of results can someone realistically expect from

podcast tour and we did talk a little bit about tracking that but you know if we can dive in a little bit more about tracking or measuring what's working.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (22:13)
Yeah.

So I've typically with my clients, I'm seeing 25 to 50 % booking rates. So for every four podcasts that you book is probably one to two podcasts that are for every four podcasts you pitch. It's usually going to be one to two podcasts that you book and that's going to vary depending on the quality of your pitch and stuff like that. like if you're writing your own pitch and you're still kind of dialing that in, that may vary from like our proven.

pitches that we write for our clients. So it may take you a little while to find that rhythm and to figure out what works for your particular niche and that is going to get the hosts in your, because if you're speaking to wellness professionals, for example, you may have a different tone than if you're speaking to other business owners like I am here. I would probably talk to Natasha a little bit differently than I would speak to a doctor or chiropractor or something like that. So it may take a minute for you to find

how you wanna talk to those hosts. But once you do, you can get those 25 to 50 % booking rates. And sometimes, my client, Sam over at Nomad Coffee, she's got like 60 to 75 % booking rates, like I said earlier, because she's tweaked her pitch emails even a little bit more from the pitch emails that we wrote for her. And so she's had people who've even said, hey, I don't usually accept guest pitches, but I'm taking yours. So once you find that...

you can get good booking rates. And then from those bookings, it depends on how dialed in your profitable speaking topic is. If it does not lead directly back to a freebie that you have, it's going to be a lot harder to get those qualified leads. So it may take a bit of experimentation there as well to figure out what works and what doesn't. And that is why that tracking is so important. Because if say my other Sam, I have too many Sams, I have done no fuss podcasters, but my web designer client, Sam,

If she had been doing PDFs of here's the big mistakes that people make with their wellness websites, she probably would get much lower quality leads and she might get a few more leads, but they probably wouldn't be people who are ready to book versus when she does her website audits, she gets probably a little bit fewer people, but those people are more ready to buy. So it's going to depend on your audience and what you offer as to

how you dial in your lead funnel and then making sure that you have your speaking funnel in general dialed in as well. So I guess essentially my answer is it's going to take some experimentation. But once you do, if you're getting the right quality leads, you can be booking four figure clients off of it. My client Jocelyn booked a $2,500 client off of an hour of podcast recording. So it really depends on your offers and how well.

you have everything dialed in, but you can definitely get to pretty solid results within six months.

Natasha (25:08)
Yeah, and when it comes to speaking on podcasts, how many podcasts would you say on average allow you to share a lead magnet or give your website to send people back to your offerings?

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (25:21)
Most podcasts that I have been on and I've been speaking on podcasts since 2015, most of them will let you at least give your website. Most of them will also let you go and give a lead magnet because they typically are wanting you to see results as well. If they don't let you share it, it's okay, but you'll want to find other ways to capture those. I've very rarely ever had a podcast host who's like, you can't share anything. Some of them will even be like,

I want you to talk about your paid offer too. So be ready. However, that ends up coming up, but I also have my clients use their sleaze free sales strategy. Sorry. I also have my clients use their sleaze free sales framework. And so that way they're able to weave in their offers, whether it's their freebie or their paid offers throughout the interview without going and being pitchy and slimy about it. And so that way, even if you can't share it like blatantly,

You still are talking about it and people who are interested will go find it. So you don't have to be going and pitching it and saying, hey, go to www.url in order to have people go and sign up.

Natasha (26:33)
Yeah, yeah, that's great.

So I'd love to know what's a real world example or client story of someone who's using podcast tours effectively right now to grow their business or launch something new.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (26:43)
Yeah,

I'm actually right now compiling a bunch of speaker success stories into a secret podcast so that the essentially just this inspiration and ways that people can go and get all the different ways that people are using podcasts to her. So I have a bunch of those. Let's see. So Samantha Mabe is the wellness, well, the website designer for wellness professionals. And so she is using that.

to go and essentially she kind of niche down her audience a little bit. So she used a podcast tour to be able to go and get in front of that new audience a bit more because she was having trouble pivoting from just general online business owners, creative entrepreneurs, that kind of thing into those wellness professionals and finding the right podcasts. And so through her podcast tour, she was actually able to get onto a pretty big podcast in that space.

And that brought her in a whole bunch of website audits and stuff like that and new clients. And then my friend Erin, who is also one of my clients, she has, she's an accessibility expert. So she's deafblind and that is not typically a topic that is talked about a lot on business podcasts. So she is using it to be able to more spread her message.

and get that messaging out into new audiences as well, rather than getting siloed into all of the typical online business podcasts. So she was having me kind of branch out her audience a little bit there. And then Sam over at Nomad Copy is the one who was using the Drip podcast tour. And so she's using that to create her everywhere effect, essentially. So I actually had one of our mutual friends who after her podcast tour started,

said, hey, I'm seeing Sam everywhere. And Sam was actually off in another country. So that is another way. And then my client Jocelyn was using it to expand outside of her own network. So she goes on podcasts regularly, but she was finding that it was the same kind of people. And she was just kind of in this little, what she called a network bubble. And so she used her podcast to her.

Natasha (28:52)
Hmm.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (28:54)
to have me go and find new ones and she was like, I've never heard of any of these podcasts. So that was exactly what she was looking for and she was the one who was able to use that to book a $2,500 client off of a one hour recording. So there's a whole bunch of different ways that you can use a podcast tour and different ways that you can approach it. it's just really, yeah, I've had a lot of fun seeing the different ways that clients have used it and where it's led them.

Natasha (29:21)
Yeah, and I'd love to know is there anyone who shouldn't be doing a podcast tour?

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (29:27)
Oh, I'd be hard to press to do that. I guess the main thing I would say is a podcast tour is typically something I recommend to folks who have settled in a little bit. So I would consider advanced business owners is kind of who I would most recommend this to only because if you are going on a podcast tour and you're talking about one thing one day and then you pivot a bit and you talk about a different thing,

the next time and then you keep doing that and you're kind of flip-flopping and popcorning through different topics and offers, you're not going to be consistent. You're not going to become known for something versus somebody who's a little bit more advanced. They have a proven offer. They know what they're talking about regularly and they're able to create speaking seasons or whatever so they don't get bored, but they become known. That's typically the person who's going to benefit the most from a podcast tour. I wouldn't say you can't.

do guest podcasting if you're still kind of figuring things out, but it's not going to have the same impact for you.

Natasha (30:29)
Yeah, and I think proven offer is a key word here. And I say the same thing about, you know, investing and building a website or a brand. So a lot of people go, I have a business, I want to create all of these things, but they haven't done kind of that foundational validation work to say, like, can I sell this? Like, go iron that out, doing some test cases with some people, get comfortable with that, know that people are going to put out money and that you're solving a real pain point and then do it. So I think that's fabulous advice.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (30:54)
Yeah,

I will say you can still use podcast tours to refine your messaging. That's something that Jocelyn was telling me when we were doing her speaker success story is she actually found it really valuable going on podcasts and getting questions that she wouldn't have thought of. And so she's actually been able to refine her messaging, but she knew what she was talking about beforehand. So there's some different ways you can play with that a bit.

Natasha (31:18)
Yeah, I think there's something to be said about just, you know, the more you're speaking on a topic, it's just this constant refinement. You're going to get questions. You're going to be thinking about it more. And that repetition brings in just the solid thought of, you know, your messaging. just gets refined, refined and honed down. So that repetition is fabulous for that. So if someone's listening and thinking, I really love to do this, but I just wouldn't even know where to start. What's the step, the first step?

that they can take to start working with you or get support on this.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (31:51)
Yeah, so you can

always go and listen to the speaker success stories and get some inspiration see if it's the right fit for you. It's not always something that everybody wants to do. You don't have to have spoken before. You don't have to be like super duper comfy on camera or anything because it's really just having a conversation. So that's a great place to start or just go and DM me. You can email me hello at visibility ecosystem.com or find me at visibility ecosystem on socials. But I, yeah, I always loved getting to chat about this.

And like said, not everybody is going to want to do a podcast tour. Not everybody's going to be ready. But I always am happy to go and chat and help you figure out if it's the right time, if there's some things you maybe want to get your foundations in line before you do that and stuff like that. So yeah, I'm always happy to chat podcast tours and visibility marketing and all that good stuff.

Natasha (32:43)
Perfect. Yeah, I think that this topic is so huge and I think you nailed the pain point which comes up a lot for my clients too, which is that not everyone loves posting on social media all the time and part of it is that they don't always have something to talk about. So when you have these social clips and know credibility from like you said other people, it's not just me feeling like I'm talking about myself over and over again and having a conversation with someone else, then that can be just really impactful and help you get over some of those mindset limitations honestly of putting yourself out there.

So we're gonna wrap up today's episode and I love to leave all of my guests with this ending question and that is what is one piece of advice you would give your younger self?

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (33:23)
Hmm. That's a good question. There's probably a lot of them, but having gone and done a lot of podcasts and summits over the past 10 years, I think one of my biggest things would be that you don't need to say yes to everything. You may get really flattering invites that don't align with what you do anymore. So like I used to do Google analytics for creative entrepreneurs, cause I'm really good at translating complex tech stuff into something that makes sense.

for people who are not as tech oriented. But Google Analytics has changed a lot. And so I've had folks who've reached out and said, hey, I absolutely loved the way that you teach Google Analytics, and I'd love to have you come on the summit and share about it more.

And every once in a I would say yes, even though that was not what I was offering anymore. And I never, I didn't get results because I didn't have a good freebie to point them back to. I didn't have a paid offer. So it was not a profitable speaking topic.

And also like maybe the topic that's the issue, may also be your calendar. like this year, B2B summits were going crazy. I think I got six or eight or something summit invitations on top of my own summit that I was running within a month. So April and May were completely packed out with summits for me. And I had to say no to some of them because I just did not have the marketing capacity to be able to promote them the way that they needed to be. So as a host,

both as having been a podcast host and as a summit host, I would rather guess say no than say yes and then only kind of show up half-heartedly. So it is absolutely okay to say no if it's not aligned. If you don't have the capacity, just say no.

Natasha (35:06)
It's such good advice because I think sometimes we don't want to let somebody down, but I'd rather get a solid yes or a solid no than a maybe or be ghosted anytime. And we might have to have you back on the podcast to talk about summits because that's another great topic. So I have appreciated our time together. There is so much to take away from this. And I think your podcast viewers are so valuable. So I really appreciate your time coming on, sharing with my audience. ⁓ And we would love to have you back, like I said, for summits.

Jenn | Visibility Ecosystem (35:34)
I am always

happy to talk shop at pet summits. has been something I've been doing both as a speaker and a host for 10 plus years, so I'm totally game.

Natasha (35:43)
Perfect, well thank you so much again and we will see everyone next time.