143: Underage sex, loneliness, puberty and finding hobbies. Support for you and your teen.

In this episode I asked Susie to come in and help me tackle some listener questions:

QUESTION: After a recent chat with my 13 year old daughter, I'm extremely concerned that she thinks she is ready to have sex with her boyfriend. He's 14, and they have been going out together for a few months. Gosh, they've only recently started kissing. I have been fairly relaxed about it until this recent conversation, and she has told me about a number of girls and boys in her year at school, which is year nine, gosh, who have already had sex, so they say. And she's disregarding my point. Yes, any tips, please? 

https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/relationships-and-sex-how-young-is-too-young/

QUESTION: I'm a mom of three girls. I have noticed my nine year old has become very self conscious around me, and when I try to talk to her, there is no engagement whatsoever, and she's clearly very uncomfortable. I believe it's related to body changes, which my 11 year old is not yet experiencing I've made numerous attempts to give her space and discuss things, including writing notes, which she totally ignored, hanging around, folding washing near you know that sort of like lurking. She's just not opening up. 

BOOK: 

• What's Happening to Me - Usborne Books
• Anne of Green Gables

QUESTION: Could you cover how to help your teenage daughter when they have no friends and are isolated? Oh, and how to cope with it as a parent? Yeah, I am so worried about my 13 year old daughter that I can't sleep and I feel sick when I think about how lonely she is. 

EPISODES COVERING FRIENDSHIPS

• https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/114-friendships-frenemies-and-boy-banter-parenting-our-teens-through-the-relationship-pitfalls/
• https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/friendship-girls-and-toxic-groups-also-resilience-how-to-get-your-teen-to-keep-going-instead-of-g/
• https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/boy-friendships-and-supporting-our-sons-in-forming-positive-friendships-also-what-the-we-sho-1/

Chapters

• 5:00 Nuggets of Wisdom
• 10:00 Listener Reviews and Underage Sex Discussion
• 15:00 Body Changes and Puberty
• 20:00 Dealing with Teenage loneliness and Friendships
• 30:00 Managing our own emotions

Transcript

Rachel Richards: 0:02

Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years where no question is a bad question. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.

Susie Asli: 0:15

Hi there. I'm Susie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician and mother of two teenagers and a 20 year old still having to think about that one.

Rachel Richards: 0:26

Well, welcome back, Susie. How are you good? Thanks. Yeah, good, yeah, good to see you looking looking tanned. I'm sorry I haven't had you on the show recently. I keep reading brilliant books and articles and wanting to talk with the author, and then they say, Yes, brilliant. So I'm just using this as a way to talk to as many brilliant people as possible. And now my girls are old enough to have on the show too, so they have some great feedback. Not all of it goes my way, but, you know, I think it's amazing. I haven't written a book so, you know, but that's you're very valuable. Today we're going to talk about how we cope when our teens don't get what they want or that they've been striving for, and we have some listener questions, and I thought, let's just mop it all up. One listener has asked for help with her 13 year old daughter, who has no friends. The mum is really struggling with her own emotions around this and isn't sleeping, which is so painful in there. Hello. How do we help our kids through their pain and also cope with our own emotions without spiraling too We'll talk about that. I also have a mum whose nine year old daughter has become very self conscious and silent around her, and she believes it's related to body changes. So she's obviously really tuned in to her kids, and has been trying lots of methods, but so far, she's been unsuccessful. Okay, first, have you got a nugget of wisdom from your own life that you can share with us? Well, I'm not sure it's wisdom, but I've got a nugget. So in my life, I've had various people, I won't give names, that have struggled with giving apologies, so a policy saying sorry is really important to me, and I know I'm not alone in that, and my kids know this, so we have, like, a, it's just a an unspoken thing, like just, just say sorry, and we'll, we'll clear it up, and then it's done. And it's just come up a few times lately, and in different ways. So just have been pondering a bit on it. I fell out with my daughter last night and then, and we really properly fell out, which we don't always do, don't often do that, but we did it happens. It's life. And then she texted me today and said sorry, and we'll and we'll talk about it later, but it's like, already, I'm like, Okay, we're good. It's just so important. And then, but then, how you say sorry is really important as well, isn't it? So we, we've also been laughing about it because, because my twins fell out in a bantery way, but they got sort of bickering, a little bit annoyed with each other, which is also completely normal. And then I heard, I heard my son sort of apologizing to his sister, which they do. They do, like if they've wronged each other, they will apologize, which is amazing. But the apology he gave in this particular instance was, I'm really sorry, but I was in the background. I went, hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. That's not an apology that basically you're going, I'm really sorry, but it's your fault. Yeah, yeah, but you did this and this and this, so really it's all on you still. And we laughed about it and joked and sort of translated it back. And I gave him some other options that he could say, and he repeated them back parrot fashion. But I think that's an important thing, yeah, can't just say sorry. You have to, it has to be a proper apology. So, like, I had an occasion with him before that where I had been in the wrong, like, and I suddenly realized, so I just went up to him and went, I'm really sorry. I was wrong, and you're right. And I then I walked out, and he was a bit sort of like, oh, oh, thanks mom. And it was gone, yeah, yeah, there's no buts Yes. And I love that, and we have a similar culture, and I think, and I actively say sorry in front of my kids to my husband if I do something wrong, because I think when they see that, it makes them it's such low stakes. And in that house I grew up in this was not an option. My parents never apologize for anything, and it's really damaging, because it really destroys relationship with trust. It's trust and it's respect, and yes, like because they can tell you they knew that you've done something wrong, taking responsibility is is really, really important. Yeah, I love that. And you know, my nugget is about how it's never too late. My youngest has always been a bit mal coordinated and hyper mobile, and I know it happens a lot for kids with neurodivergence. So I've had lots of parents when I've mentioned things like this, they go, oh yes, that's the similar thing. And these all things are all connected. It's always affected her confidence in sports and all sorts of other things. So it was hard to keep her going to anything, and I know she likes dancing, but even when I signed her up for classes with people her age, she hated them because there was so much judgment and they'd all been dancing forever, so she felt like she was the worst. And who wants to be that, right? Well, I suggested she come to an adult beginners class, and then I would sign up too. Oh, brilliant. Yeah, and she agreed, and we've been going together every Friday evening. And you know, what is the highlight of her week? Oh, that's so cool. She always comes out on a massive high, and now she's saying, if I keep going for the next 10 years, I'm going to be good. What kind of dancing you doing? Contemporary Dance? Oh, my God, that's so cool. Yeah. I mean, I love dance, and I'm really not great. I'm fine. I Salsa dance and things like that. But contemporary dance, there's a lot of rolling on the floor. Okay? And so you actually said to her, you know, the great thing is, we're never going to really show this to other people, because the truth is, when are you going to be doing some of these things? But it's really enjoyable. Yeah, sounds amazing. So yeah, I Yeah. Anyway, I just said to her, yes, if you keep going, you will be good. And I think it's given her an anchor to something that she felt she was never going to be able to access, because I think the problem with schools and the system and the shame that surrounds her, you know, it's great to talk about the best. It's great to try and strive to be the best. And a lot of sports teams in schools, I don't know if you've experienced this in but in my girls schools, they had Team A, Team B, and below that you basically they would just ignore you, yeah, and you were, you were nothing. And I think that's a tragedy, because we really should be encouraging people to be enjoying sports well beyond their bodies. Yes, exactly. So actually, it's been, it's been brilliant. And I'm delighted to, you know, occasionally bruise my shoulders.

Susie Asli: 6:25

Oh, I love, I think that's brilliant. And to do it together is really beautiful. It is so much fun. I hate that. I hate the idea that, you know, kids, even when they're little, like 10 year olds going to ballet or something, going and then feeling that that's too late for them. I mean, what is that about?

Rachel Richards: 6:39

Yes, and you know what I must mention, I took her so she's enjoying coming to talks with me and all sorts of things. I just book things that are free or that don't cost too much. And there was this great talk by a man called Emir gamsis who calls himself the chatty pianist that we went to the other night. It's a great, yes, he's Turkish, former basketball player and athlete age 20, he decided to take up the piano. Okay, within a year, he'd been accepted at a Conservatoire. Wow. I know Crikey. He showed, he showed a video of him playing, six months into learning to play the piano, and he's playing a Chopin Etude or whatever. That's extraordinary, I know. Anyway, the point is, it's never too late. I mean, he sounds quite talented, but still, yeah, because, because if I played the piano for six months, guaranteed I would not be playing at his level. But yeah, depends how much effort you put in and how much you wanted. That's the key. And she's taking a lot more interest now in composers because she's seen it live and she called, she called Schubert scubbert Because she read it. I mean, that's logical, which brings me such joy. I love it. I love it anyway. Do you have a review for us?

Susie Asli: 7:48

I do. It's right here. I have a boy in year seven, and oh my I found your show on this super helpful. And found it super helpful. I also just listened to your last two shows and found this also very good. Hearing the girls say that year seven is pretty much awful and that establishing a social circle is far more important to them than academic results, it relaxed me to understand that, as my boy is more interested in friends and girls than school work, I've shared the link to your show on the school's year seven Whatsapp group for parents. I hope you get a few more listeners from it. Again. Great show. Thank you for doing what you do. The girls too. I love hearing their views. Anna, me. Anna Mika, sorry, brilliant.

Rachel Richards: 8:26

Oh, that's wonderful. What a great idea. Share it on the WhatsApp group. Thank you. And I want to add she did raise a question about looking at our kids phones, because we talked about that and my one of the points my daughter made was, Do not go through your child's phone without their permission. And actually, I think what my daughter had forgotten was that when she was younger, when I first started allowing her to have a phone, there was an agreement that at any point I could take the phone and look at what she was doing.

Susie Asli: 8:54

Yes, it's age related. And this mother said that actually when she did go through her son's phone, she found some things that really needed to be discussed with the school and that they were very grateful so. So I think, I think it's a difficult one. It's a difficult older No. As they get older, no no,

Rachel Richards: 9:12

right? I promise that we get to listener questions. I just want one literally, that came through while I was walking the dogs before we came in here was I'm an abids of your podcast, and fully enjoy and appreciate listening to your advice. I have just searched your back episodes in case I missed one, but can't find anything that explicitly talks about teen, underage sex with consent. After a recent chat with my 13 year old daughter, I'm extremely concerned that she thinks she is ready to have sex with her boyfriend. He's 14, and they have been going out together for a few months. Gosh, they've only recently started kissing. I have been fairly relaxed about it until this recent conversation, and she has told me about a number of girls and boys in her year at school, which is year nine, gosh, who have already had sex, so they say. And she's disregarding my point. Yes, any tips, please? Well, I just want to say we have talked about this. I did extensive research, because we had another listener with a similar problem. And I'm not going to go into all the detail, but I will put the link in the podcast notes. I have emailed this lady back, and I basically found that the average age for having sex is 17, so it's way above this. I have, I know somebody who's now an adult woman who said to me that she was pressured by her peer group into this exact, this sort of situation, to having sex when she was 14, and she just felt like there was must be something wrong with her, because she didn't enjoy it. She found it really uncomfortable and wasn't enjoyable. And she said when she finally had a relationship at 17 where it was very loving, she went, Oh, that's what it said. So I think there's a lot, a lot to unpick there, but the actual episode covers huge amounts of this. Yeah, I think, and I worry that we are now in a very porn saturated environment that our kids are not aware that that is not normal, or that there are people whose agenda is to blur the boundaries, and we need to be very mindful of that, and keep being clear about why we say that 16 or 18 or whatever the legal age in your in your country, is has been put there in place? Yeah, and we're not trying to turn these children, yes, and we're not, and, but also all the other things. So when I researched this, it was things to do with, well, is your child able to discuss and understand consent? Probably are. Will they always use contraception when they have sex? You know? Will Do they understand the full ramifications. And I, I really question whether a lot of kids this age would understand the full ramifications, and just thinking everybody else is doing is not a good reason for doing something. Most of the ones who say they are probably aren't correct Exactly. So that's my penny's worth. That's our penny's worth. And so I hope, I wish you luck with that. I hope the episode helps you let us know what you think. So here's another question that was asked help. I need your advice. I'm a mom of three girls. I have noticed my nine year old has become very self conscious around me, and when I try to talk to her, there is no engagement whatsoever, and she's clearly very uncomfortable. I believe it's related to body changes, which my 11 year old is not yet experiencing I've made numerous attempts to give her space and discuss things, including writing notes, which she totally ignored, hanging around, folding washing near you know that sort of like lurking. She's just not opening up. And she said, Actually, we're really open family, and we always talk about things, and we're not really body conscious. So I don't want her to feel isolated, especially considering she's only nine, and I don't think her friends are at the same stage. Please help. What do you think? What have you have you got any thoughts? I just feel like I want

Susie Asli: 12:50

to give her a big hug. That sounds really hard. Yeah. I mean, without knowing what the issue is, it's hard to sort of say what, what a good thing to do is, isn't it? But like, just keep being there for her. Like, maybe do something with her instead, she probably, I mean, kids are amazing, aren't They pick up on our on our agendas, and even when we're they? hovering with the washing or are doing that, they know why we're doing that. Yes, and if they don't want to talk, then, oh, God, Mum's here again, potentially. I mean, I don't know the kid, but, you know, doing something in a kind activity that she enjoys instead, and just, you know, deliberately not talking about it for a while, because she's probably got her antenna. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 13:34

So I mentioned this to my daughter, and she said, Well, maybe back off, yeah, which is a standard answer for her, and she said, Perhaps she just doesn't want to talk about it. I said, Oh, that's interesting, because I'm not one of those people who tends to back off, which is probably why my daughter had said that. And then another suggestion she came up with was she said, Well, maybe she needs to include the older daughter and talk generically about puberty. And I thought actually, that might be a really useful suggestion. And the reason I say that is the known age of the start of puberty, onset of puberty has actually lowered. It might be either the nine and the 11 year old girl or even the young girl, and it's worth her sitting down and actually having a really warm, fun evening where she actually creates packs which are explaining what's in the pack for puberty pack, and talking with all of them and saying, actually, what I've been reading is that puberty comes on much younger nowadays, because the problem is, if it' s happening to You at nine, and nobody else around you is experiencing that you're going to feel like you're not normal. Yeah, and that's the worry, But I but the reason I thought this was actually quite a nice suggestion was that I think we have to normalize this. Yeah, she's all of these girls. Yeah, all of these girls will there will either be, you know, the start, the middle, the end. I don't know where they're going to be in terms of the kids in their class going through this, and it's a really uncomfortable phase, particularly for girls, because people start looking at you as well. People comment which they don't, and you're the only one. Yes, first, that must be hard. So I do think that it might be worth as she's got three girls having that open conversation and just saying, I want you girls to all understand this is absolutely there's a range. Your body will be on its own cycle, and whenever it happens, we'll be completely normal. And here are the things that I want you to I want you to all have packs. And I want you to support other girls. So I want you to be all of you agents for other girls. So if you see that they need some support, be, you know, say, Oh, this is normal, so that you can sort of turn it into a positive that's one suggestion. Yeah. And with my girls, I created little period packs and things where I had little stuff in them so they could then go to when they wanted to. There's a very good book by Usborne that's for this sort of age group as well. And I'll put that in the podcast link. Yeah, there's lots of things you can do. I made a little box for my daughter, did you? It's just to make it something special. And actually having a little book that's nothing to do with periods, but that's a really warm I got Anne of Green Gables, just a beautiful book that they could read.

Susie Asli: 16:40

That's it depends on the kid those to you know, how, how, how they take stuff, doesn't it? And she'll know that best, better than anyone. Yeah, she'll know.

Rachel Richards: 16:49

She will know with her, I'm trying to put some things out there so that parents who will listen to it will

Susie Asli: 16:54

I do I see you, and when you're ready, I'm here. think, Oh, I could do that. I, as my kids have pointed out on the podcasting before, is, I am a front footer. I'm one of those people who they laughed at me, because when it came to pornography and masturbation and things, I would just come out with it. And they were like, but I just do same. But actually what I tend to do is I tend to just I that when my daughter, I, because of my daughters, I would actually take her anymore to one side and and I would deliver up what I was seeing. And I would just say, I am seeing this. I'm seeing you withdrawing. I am I'm wondering whether it's this. I want to talk to you directly about it, because I don't want you to think that either I don't care, or that I'm going to overreact, or that there's something strange about what's happening to you. I want you to know from day one that you can ask me anything and that what you're going through is completely normal. Yeah. I think Yeah, so that's, I don't know anything else. No, I think that's a beautiful way of approaching it. Really beautiful. Like mirroring. I'm seeing this, yes, yes. What is, is this your experience? Yes, so that you have broken that spell, because even if she's feeling uncomfortable and doesn't want to talk about it. You can say that, and then you can say you can talk about it. Now you can never talk about it with me again. I don't mind, but I want, because I think what I remember my daughter once saying to me something that's resonated with me ever since, where she said, Most kids don't tell their parents things, either because they think they don't care, or cos they think their parents will overreact, tell them off. Yeah, and we need to go right in there and say, just so you are very clear. I do care. that's a beautiful way of approaching it. And I'm sure,

Rachel Richards: 18:48

But I also think it's interesting, isn't it, because I think the notes can be really useful. And I remember back to our episode talking about bereavement and how we grieve, and that actually we the way that we grieve if we don't talk about our beloved, if we don't talk about how we're feeling about it, because we think always adults, we need to hide our feelings because we don't want to upset our kids. What can actually happen is they take it as, oh, we don't talk about this, and we can inadvertently make it into something that's not a conversation we have. Whereas I think sometimes if we front foot it and say, I'm feeling this, I'm thinking, There absolutely you give them permission to make it a really open, honest area to talk, yeah, even if it's oh my god, Mom, stop, yes, yes, I always just get oh, sorry, yeah. I'm embarrassed. But, you know, I didn't want you to think this. Yeah, here's another one. This came through on the text message app that you can find in the podcast. Notes. The thing with that, I've got to remind you all again, I can't see you, so I you know, she may have already done that in the notes that she can't respond directly to you. So if you want me to actually email you back, use the email, which is teenagers untangled.com otherwise it's absolutely fine to you, or, you know, social media I respond to. People on social media, but and you can talk to Susie as well, but I can't see the the who it is that's messaged me. So it still comes through, though. So what this person said was, Could you cover how to help your teenage daughter when they have no friends and are isolated? Oh, and how to cope with it as a parent? Yeah, I am so worried about my 13 year old daughter that I can't sleep and I feel sick when I think about how lonely she is.

Susie Asli: 20:11

Yeah, I think that's a really important question, isn't it? Because, and we've talked about this before, like when our kids are struggling and we feel something is painful, that's one part of it, isn't it? But then it's our own reaction, and we very quickly spiral depending on our background. But that is actually in a whole other, a whole other side to it, but usually it's enmeshed because we don't realize it's happening. Yeah, I mean, just a silly example of that. I was, I was driving with my daughter, she was driving, and we were sent. But you know, if her daughter knows she's, she's, late, she was going to work experience, and we having to drive through Croydon, and it was really stressful. And it was her first day, and she was insisting on driving. And, yeah, you can imagine the scene, you know, that's vibrating going past, and, I mean, she's, she's, you know, test ready. So, but still, and I was massively stressing and trying to read the navigation and all of that, and trying to stay calm so that she didn't, you know, drive badly. And we were almost there. We almost there. Oh, you're going to make it. It's going to be fine, Anna. I went, God, my nervous system is absolutely wrecked. Anna is yours. And she went, No, I'm just really focusing on the road. It was like a light bulb, oh my goodness. So basically, and we joked about, so basically, I'm taking all the stress and you're fine. She went, Yeah, I think so she's there and she understands it, she will come when she's ready. yes, yeah. And I thought, Oh my goodness. I think I do that regularly. It was the emotional trash can, yeah, yes. And I thought I wasn't, because I thought I was more aware than that, but clearly I'm not, but I'm just relating to this, this lady's question. You know, we spiral in stuff, and often it is absolutely relevant, and it is their pain we're feeling. And sometimes it's not, sometimes it's our own. So I think first port of call is to to sit with our own pain in it, and work out, okay, is that, is that hers, or is it mine? Or, you know, what's, what is my old story about? Maybe, maybe she and maybe she doesn't, but it's possible she has a story around feeling lonely. Maybe she has a story about, you know, worrying about not having friends, or something, you know, something in your background, yes, or if you know, I think most people's fears of being lonely, isn't it the biggest fear we have? So maybe that's at the root of the pain that she's spiraling in, potentially. And

Rachel Richards: 22:49

we catastrophize as parents. So what we do is we take one particular situation. We think she has no friends. She's 13. Yeah, she's never going to have friends. Her light is going to be rude. Yes, we do this, particularly at night, in a nanosecond. Yes, she's on in on her sofa, surrounded by cats or something. You know, I'm not saying that, yeah. So differentiating what's my pain and being brave and sitting with that and trying to unpack that as best we can, and then then we can return to, okay, this is my daughter's situation, as you say, in this moment, she hasn't got any friends. What does that actually look like in this moment? And how, how is, how is she in it? Is she really struggling, and is this really painful for her? Is it awful, and how can I help her through that? Or is she or is it just a phase for her? And actually, maybe it's not so deep for her. But you know, nobody knows that, and nobody will know that more than her mother, yeah, and actually she hasn't. We haven't got enough information so we don't know whether there's her daughter's coming home crying every day saying, I have no friends, or whether. But yeah, I love your point. Because actually, before we can help anybody else, we really need to ground ourselves, and we can't. If we are spiraling and falling apart, we are absolutely no use to our child, because they will sense that when they want to talk to us about it. And the thing I've learned most is that I have to be able to cope with whatever emotion my child is going through, and just be able to recognize and say, That sounds really hard, yeah, yeah. But what we need to do this is the big switch that I found really tricky, is the changing gears, and the changing gears from when they were little, things would go wrong. And my girls have talked about this on the episodes, when things go wrong, I can create a play date, and then they get together with the friends, and it's all fixed. Now that they're teenagers, that is not possible anymore. We are not doing this, and we slowly have to understand and develop our ability to support our kids in fixing the problems for themselves or finding solutions for themselves. Yeah. And what we want to do is we want to fix things immediately. We and our brain is on the problem because it's going okay. I've got to fix this. I've got to fix this. There must be a fix. We are not. The people who can fix the problem. That's the hardest thing to get our heads up. Nothing more painful than watching our children feel pain and be in pain and be in a situation. And we have to become the masters of holding space for them and holding being a safe space for them, and nudging them if they need nudging or just holding them if they need holding. And we all have our own narratives. None of us is a blank piece of paper. When we become parents, we all have our own history, our own baggage, and that is those usually sort of background noise narratives that we're not even aware of. So if we have, for example, a narrative that I mustn't, you know, be lonely or a fear of, you know, of, you know, if they fail an exam or what does that kind of mean? You know, if that's our fear, we all have these things, if we're not aware of them, those are running the show. They are guiding our behaving. They're guiding our what we tell our kids, what we fear for our kids. So we kind of have to be brave and find out what they are, unpack them, and then we can hold a more neutral, safe space for our kids. I love that, and it's really interesting. No, it's really interesting because I have been there, and it's funny because I brought it up with one of my daughters, and she said, Yeah, that one's not for me, because I didn't have I had friends. They just weren't very good friends, okay? And she said, My sister had no friends, and she didn't at 13, she had no friends at her school, and it was and but you know that then made me think, well, here's the thing, is it better to have friends who aren't really your friends, or to be looking at it saying, well, I need to find my tribe. And this is one of the other problems. When kids get to this age, there's this desperate, desperate, desperate need to fit in, and this desperate need to be in some lifeboat. It doesn't matter what lifeboat it is. They don't want to be in the shark infest. In the shark infested waters. This, we've talked about this before in terms of friendships. So sometimes what they will do is they will try and get into a lifeboat or friendship, which doesn't really suit them, and they will be shifting their own needs in order to fit in, which also isn't great. So one way you could look at this, this is you could say, here you have a daughter who has no friends, but actually you could say, maybe what she's doing is she's not trying to fit in with something that doesn't work for her. We certainly use a group that are being mean to her, for example, which would be of just which also have a group, yeah, yeah. So there is that. There's also. So one of the problems my daughter had was, she, was she is? She's so bright that for her, as she became out of being quite young, her intellect accelerated very rapidly, and she found it very hard to understand and really and have fun and relate to kids who were kids. It just sort of to start with, she was really, really fun and popular and everything. And then it sort of as the puberty hit, she was like, Oh, why are they doing these things? And she couldn't understand, I stepped in to be her friend. When she was going through this, we talked every single night at length. We'd laugh about things. I would organize things for us to do together. We're not their friend. We always say that you are their parent, but there's no harm in stepping in as a friend in those times when they need a bridge and they need to feel that they're not friends, but we're also not friends, like we're not their friends, but we can also be well, they can be. We can be their best friend. They can't be our best friend. So we can't expect them to take on any of our needs, but we can provide them somewhere where they can laugh, somewhere they can companionship, all that stuff. So that's something that this mother can be doing in order to support her child. I also think there's a very strong need to understand that neurodiverse kids can often stumble when it comes to friendships, and I don't know whether her daughter has any neuro spicy parts to her, but it could, she could, because I have noticed that where I've got, I have neurodiverse, you know, couple, three, two, mainly, who are neurodiverse. And there are times when they misread stuff. Yeah, absolutely. And that can, it can come out in different ways. So they'll have a very spiky profile. So some of them are really emotionally capable, but they're not good at reading signals from other people and understanding what's going on in certain situations. And that can be really exacerbated at this age. So there are lots and lots of things going on. I don't, I don't know any of this, and it may be that it's just a very, very toxic setup in that school and that she needs to find other groups that she can Yeah, and just say to her, look for your tribe. Yeah. What are the things? Yes, joining other classes. Yeah. Boys are really good at, you know, doing activities within the activity. They find their tribe. Yeah. Whereas girls, it's, it's less activity based, generally, not always, but generally. So maybe girls can be encouraged to have, you know, to be bit more activity based, do something that you enjoy doing, and then you'll probably find people that like those things you Yeah, and then you only have to have a couple of friends, you have to have millions. Yes, it's hard, though, but really having a look at what is triggering us in that, in. Like you say, if she's coming home and she's really upset about it and is crying about it, then obviously, then that is her own pain, and she's no mother would want to witness that, of course. But if the kid isn't so bothered by it, then maybe it's, you know, some of the mother's old pain points, yeah, her own friendship stuff. Or, you know, we even, we say that teenagers want to belong, but we all want to belong, and it's only when we get older that we maybe get less attached that. But even even now, you know, it's not like nice be left out. That's it like nobody likes that. So there is this sort of human need to belong, and if and when we see that our kids are not belonging, yeah, that brings stuff up in us which is really uncomfortable. I think that's worthy spot on. That's worth looking at. Yeah, I think that's spot on. And I think that when we can manage to calm us own system and think that stuff through and understand what's happening with ourselves, we can also then be useful. So we can sit and help them try to think through strategies for managing the situation they're in. So thinking about, you know, how does your school day work? When are the times when you can go to clubs? What sort of clubs are there? I mean, one of the problems I had were that, you know, a lot of the school clubs are to do with certain sports, and if you're not in the top teams, then you know that's no use to you. And I do find the girls things are quite narrow, yeah, if you're not dancing or you're not Yeah. And actually, I found that my older girls, as they've blossomed and grown, they're all doing really interesting things that were never on the table for them when they were at that age. So one of the things that Dr Rebecca Winthrop talks about in the disengaged teen is that we are the missing part of the puzzle in terms of those interests, and having agency. And schools can be very, very confining environment if they're only offering X, Y, Z, and your daughter is interested in B. So what we as parents can also be doing is thinking outside of the school box, rather than focusing all our energy on that and thinking, what other things are there outside of school that I could just be exposing her to? Yeah, yeah, like my daughter's just taken up fishing recently, or, you know, talks that she could go to, or jujitsu, which is other things that are separate and not necessarily in the girl box. Yeah, I think that's brilliant advice. And also, if you're doing more stuff, then you're less sitting around noticing that you have less friends. I think that's right, yes, and it's less important. And some kids don't actually really want a lot of friends. Some really do. And that will help you understand what it is, because maybe they maybe they okay, maybe they're okay. I don't know. We don't know. And one thing I will say is the girl who had no real friends at 13 and found it very harrowing, she now has really solid, deep, close friendships and is flourishing. So it's never Yeah, it just takes time. And this is one of the worst, because the clamor to belong is so strong, so strong, so strong. They're all panicking. They're all they're all anxious. They will feel like there's a lot of power struggles going on. And I think as parents, we like if our kid is thriving socially, we like, Oh, thank goodness. Yeah, a few, few, they function. They they fit in, like, because we're, you know, we're also affected by it, yeah, so we need to be aware of that. Yeah, I love that. Susie, that's a really good point. I think that's pretty much that is there anything else you wanted to add? No one more thing, I think don't, don't make them think that it's your job to fix it. That's another thing. I think actually there's a there's a tendency in the society we have now, which is has shifted so much away from the way our parents were, which were hands off. It's your problem. You get on with it. And I was very much like, Okay, I'll do everything where we feel with we're almost giving messages to our kids that we will fix everything, yeah, and we have to be understand that we can help them by coaching them. We cannot fix their problems. And we have to be actually, really clear about that. And I think what we can do, I have got something to add to that is, is it's kind of linked to what I just said about looking at our own stuff, because it's always about looking at our own, in my opinion, is looking at our own fear, because at the bottom of the bottom of all our worries and you know, concerns about our kids are our own fears, and very often we're not quite sure what they are. They're just the ones that kind of come and squeeze our solar plexus and goats, and we go, oh, that doesn't feel very nice. How can I fix my kid to get rid of that feeling Yeah? And sometimes our fears are nothing to do with our kids, and sometimes they are Yeah. And I know for my kids who are also you've mentioned that your kids neuro spicy. I have three who. Various different things, you know, and I've been thinking a lot about that recently, and I think it makes such a difference. We know that already, but we have to kind of what what? Like my I worry about them. They don't go through the school system, maybe particularly smoothly in some at some points, because it's not designed for them. And how can I help them in in that and really properly help them and and kind of allow my own fears, which are, you know, from my generation and my my parents have, like all you need to do this in a particular way. So it requires a huge amount of awareness of our own patterns, our fears will pop up immediately because they're so quick and they're survival things. So my, you know, could be a fear of, or if we, if you don't go through the, you know, the academic system, like, like a in inverted commas, normal person, what does that mean? And even though, in my head, I'm going, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, if I have an old fear that's going to come up first, yes, yes. We need to be brave, actually, and unpack those things. And they're not. It's not always very comfortable, but if we don't do that, then we can't create that space that is just holding for them and and then they are also picking up on our fears, and because we project them, we even, even when we think we're not talking about education. My daughter, who left school for a year at 16, and she's been working and doing her own personal study, she's almost evangelical about pointing out that we don't have to be on this freight train that we can and I did that. I did fashion design for a year, came back into academics, not because I even understood how academics was going to help me. It just felt like, oh, this wasn't quite the right thing for me. I'm going to try something else. And our path through life does not have to be a straight line. In fact, it will never be a straight line. And this idea that there's a pot of gold at the end of the academic rainbow, and that's the only way to go, is being completely destroyed at the moment anyway, so I think we have to be much more comfortable with being creative about how our kids will go through life and trusting that they will find it. But we have to give them a bit more of agency in this. And we have to not just say it, but we have maybe, maybe that's a better way of saying it. We we can be, we can be aware of that, and we can believe it, but if, but if, at the underlying our own fears are still shouting and going, yeah, yeah, that's the right way, yeah, but what? Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, ones that wake you up in the night and go, Yeah, but are you sure? Are you sure? Like, we have to unpack them as well, otherwise we can't really be there 100% for them. Yeah. I love that beautiful, beautiful thought to end on, right? If you found this useful, please share it now with at least one other person. Go on Whatsapp group. The whole school works Whatsapp group. You can reach Susie at www. Dot amindful. Hyphen life.co. I'm on teenagers untangled.com. You can message me there or using social media, my email address is teenagers untangled@gmail.com Tell me what's worrying you. I'll try to get you an answer. That's it for now. Have a great week. Bye for now. Pivot.

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