The Thing We All Need Most: Mattering

Mattering is a deep human need to feel valued beyond achievements. It's something we all need, but are we getting it?

The new book by Jennifer Breheney-Wallace focuses on "Mattering," discussing how societal pressures, particularly on teenagers, exacerbate this need. 

She emphasizes the importance of adults feeling valued at work to better support their children. 

Wallace suggests practical strategies like minimizing criticism, prioritizing affection, and fostering interdependent relationships. 

She also highlights the impact of social media on extrinsic values and stresses the need for parents to focus on intrinsic values to raise resilient, well-rounded children.

FIND JENNIFER HERE:

https://www.jenniferbwallace.com/

BUY MATTERING HERE:

https://amzn.eu/d/0fX3Q4Kd

FIND RACHEL'S SUBSTACK ARTICLE TO ACCOMPANY THIS INTERVIEW HERE:

https://open.substack.com/pub/teenagersuntangled/p/you-matter-no-matter-what?r=2u24i0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

• Mattering is a fundamental human need that drives behavior.
• The adolescent years are particularly fragile for developing a sense of mattering.
• Adults also struggle with feelings of not mattering, impacting their ability to support teens.
• Building connections and support systems is essential for both parents and children.
• Minimizing criticism and prioritizing affection helps children feel valued.
• Surrounding oneself with supportive families can reinforce shared values.
• Focusing on intrinsic values over extrinsic ones promotes better mental health.
• Social media exacerbates feelings of inadequacy and should be monitored.
• Parents can counter achievement pressures by communicating unconditional love.

Transcript

Rachel Richards: 0:02

hello and welcome to teenagers. Untangled, the audio hub for parents going through the tween and teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now, David Jaeger talked a while ago on this podcast about the teenage drive for status and respect, and more recently, we explored the ideas behind happiness and success. But what if the thing we are really seeking is something we're still not talking about, and that's mattering. The name of a new book by Jennifer brenney Wallace, an award winning journalist who has spent years really listening to teenagers, parents and educators in today's achievement culture. In a previous book, never enough, which I cannot recommend enough, she exposed the hidden cost of a world obsessed with performance. What cost are we talking about? Anxiety, burnout and a fragile sense of self worth? And her latest book, mattering, goes even deeper, drawing on research in psychology, neuroscience and education, and it's grounded in the real voices of families in it. Jennifer, offers a refocus for us all, a way to raise ambitious kids without tying their worth to achievement. Jennifer, thank you so much for giving us your time. Oh, thanks for thanks for having me. I ended up underlying so many of the passengers from your books. And I think at the latest one, you argue that one of the deepest human needs is to feel that we matter. But what do you mean by mattering?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 1:25

Yeah, so mattering is the idea that we are valued for who we are, deep at our core, away from our achievements and successes, and that we have an opportunity to add value back to our family, our friends, our colleagues, our society. So mattering is what researchers call it. They refer to it as a meta need, which means it's a need that sits above other needs, like connection and belonging and agency. But mattering goes deeper. So for example, you can belong to a family or a classroom or the accounting department, and not feel like you matter to the people there. So mattering really, to me, it is just this deep, fundamental human need that drives behavior for better and for worse.

Rachel Richards: 2:17

Yeah, and I love your book. It's not just about parenting teenagers or kids, it's actually goes out into the workplace and various scenarios in life where people really may not feel that they matter, and the ways in which that can be changed. But when you look at the world of teenagers and the way they're growing up now, you know, socially, digitally, academically, what do you think is making that need to matter so much harder.

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 2:42

So what we know is that the need to matter matters throughout the lifespan. In the adolescent years, it is particularly fragile because it is being built around a sturdy sense of self. This self becomes less sturdy when we feel like we have to look a certain way or be popular or get a certain GPA or have a certain weight on the scale in order to feel worthy and valuable. And so there's a there was a theologian, Henry nowen, who talks about the three great lies of our culture, which are, I am, what I have. I am what I do. I am what people say and think about me. I think that is the messaging that our young people are internalizing, and that gets in the way of true mattering

Rachel Richards: 3:34

that explanation makes so much sense. And to what extent do you think adults are underestimating how existential that actually feels for young people.

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 3:43

Well, I think adults are feeling it too. One of the things that struck me in my interviews as I was packing up my reporter notebooks was that parents would say, you know, I have that never enough feeling too. I work as a doctor at a major medical center and just feel crushed by the insurance companies. I am an educator, and I feel like, you know, everybody else's needs are prioritized, but my needs are never met. Or I am a caregiver, and I am giving all I can, but I am being crushed. I'm exhausted, or I work in Finance, and I feel interchangeable. AI is now coming on the scene. So there were so many adults in these kids lives who no longer felt like they mattered at work. To their neighbors, you know, there in when I was growing up in the 70s, mattering was baked into everyday life. We knew our neighbors. They depended on us. We depended on them. Friendships were prioritized. We had time together on the weekends in person, where we got those signals that we mattered. We were a more religious society, and I'm not saying it's a panacea, but every weekend, we had a place that would miss us. As if we weren't there. We were relied on to show up those those daily signals are now missing, and instead of responding to the loneliness that we are feeling, this crisis of loneliness, we are numbing out in our devices. We are ignoring those frauds and trying to self medicate our way out of them, but it's not working. Wow, that's

Rachel Richards: 5:26

quite a bleak picture, and I completely relate to it. So what are the things that you think we can be doing? Because it's a societal thing, isn't it?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 5:36

It is. It's a societal problem. And Robert Putnam, who is a wonderful sociologist has been documenting how, as a society, we've become hyper individualistic. What are the solutions? I mean the solutions to me, if I were to just pull one lever, I think the lever I would pull is helping adults matter at work, what I've come to realize is that if you go to a workplace where 810, 12 hours a day, you are made to feel like you don't matter, where you feel interchangeable, where you're treated with incivility, it is very hard to show up after a long day and be that sturdy source of support for the Young people in our lives who are depending on us. So I know the opposite is also true, that if you are an employee who feels like you matter, you are more engaged, you are more productive, you are more likely to show up at home feeling fulfilled and able to be that first responder that our kids really need. So to me, the mattering at work lever is the lever to pull. But even for caregivers who don't work outside of the home, if there is again, one solution for the youth mental health crisis, I think it is to go upstream and to take care of the adults in their lives who are struggling at equal rates, according to research out of the Harvard Graduate School of Education and others. And so what does it mean to to you know, work on our own, mattering as an adult, there's research that was conducted at the Mayo Clinic, and I included it in both of my books, because it is to me, so meaningful. They were researchers were looking at busy medical professionals, physicians who were also mothers and who were reporting low levels of well being, high levels of stress. So the researchers conducted a simple intervention. They had the women meet in small groups of five or six for one hour a week over the course of 12 weeks, to support each other, to feel seen and heard and taken care of and prioritized like we try to be for our own kids. After those 12 weeks, researchers interviewed the women. The women reported high levels of well being. Their cortisol levels, the stress hormone had dropped, they even reported feeling like better parents. So if there is one thing to do, if their caregiver who's listening today, I will say the number one thing you could do is to shore up your own mattering, your own resilience, surround yourself with one or two people outside of your home. Spouses don't count. We're already over taxing these relationships trying to be one family villages, so really prioritize finding one or two people outside of your home to meet with for at least an hour a week. These interdependent relationships are what allow us to be those sturdy sources of support for our kids.

Rachel Richards: 8:40

I love that we talk about it a lot on the podcast, that actually, I think looking after ourselves is in many ways selfless, because it helps everybody and helps our kids, particularly, coming back to you know, when we're dealing with the home and we're trying to support Our kids and make them feel like they matter. How do we how do we show our kids that they actually matter to us? Right?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 9:07

So I've come to really believe in what Sonia Luthor, who was one of the world's leading researchers on resilience, she passed away a few years ago, but she talked about how showing our kids unconditional worth and love was done by minimizing criticism and prioritizing affection. So minimizing criticism is not abandoning all standards. It's not saying, well, whatever you do you it is being careful to separate the deed from the doer. So when our kids inevitably disappoint us, which they will do, it is to be clear that while we don't approve of the behavior or we don't like that, they're phoning it in at school, and that we do have. Standards on how work gets done in our home, that they themselves are not lazy or the problem. It is their work habits that need some shoring up, and then the other half of that equation is prioritizing affection, and that looks like greeting your kids once a day the way the family dog greets you with just total joy. So much of our lives as parents is getting through an endless to do list that our kids don't often get to see the joy we feel and delight in just being their parents. So once a day, make a point in delighting in them, openly delighting in them, let them see the joy we get from them.

Rachel Richards: 10:39

I love that, and I we talked about how I'd noticed that my dogs always greet me with the most extraordinary enthusiasm every day. And I looked at my family and I thought, what if I did that for them? And I've tried to do that with every member of my family, and it certainly makes a difference. I love that, that idea, and I think, as you said, parents feel overwhelmed, like you've talked about meeting up with friends once a week, maybe a few of them. When we do that again, how do we make each other feel that we genuinely matter?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 11:09

Yeah, so there are ingredients to mattering that researchers have found since the 1980s and I've put them together in a framework I call said, S, A, I D, meaning we need to feel significant, appreciated, invested in and depended on. So feeling significant does not mean feeling like the number one person in that friend's life, but simply feeling significant is letting them know they're a priority in your life. So if your friend, if their mother's going in for surgery, to mark it in your calendar and circle back and just say, how'd that go? I've been thinking about you feeling appreciated. Is I've come to think of it as appreciating the doer behind the deed. So let's say you have a friend who's just so thoughtful, and she buys you a favorite blue sweater from your favorite store. Instead of saying to your friend, thank you for this gorgeous sweater, you could say to him, thank you for being someone who always knows me so well, who is so generous. You know this is my favorite store and my favorite color, how lucky I am to have a kind and generous friend like you in my life feeling invested in is having people in our lives who are invested in our goals and in our well being, and also having people in our lives that we're invested in their goals and well being too. I often say to my kids that so much of the joy I experience on a daily basis is because of my friends and their joy and their successes and their well being, and just relish and delight in your friends. And then the last ingredient is having people in our lives who we depend on and who rely and depend on us. That is what gives us the psychological security that we're not going through this world alone.

Rachel Richards: 12:55

And if you were working in a company as one of our parents who are listening and thinking, Oh, we're just not getting it right, or maybe that you're a boss, and you think I've really messed up here. I you know, I haven't been treating my staff well. How do we shift that conversation in the workplace? Do you think I would

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 13:15

say the quickest way of letting employees feel like they matter is to connect them to the impact that they make, so we don't have to wait for year end reviews. We could be sending a quick text if it weren't for you, Dot. Dot. Dot. That meeting would have gone off the rails. Thank you for always stepping in and knowing the right thing to say we are so lucky to have you on our team. It is letting people know when they're the introduction that they make leads to an extraordinary deal and how much money, right that that introduction brought to the company. So really connecting people to the impact that they make on their colleagues, on their clients, and to the company's bottom line, and we can do this and don't save it for year end reviews. People really feel disconnected from their impact. Circle back, close the loop. Let your employees know you depend on them, that they're significant and an important part of the company.

Rachel Richards: 14:16

Brilliant. And for the parents at home who may think, yeah, I guess I haven't been getting this right either. What would you suggest they should be doing with their kids that could make a big difference?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 14:26

I think for our kids, we are, we are raising children in an environment that tells them 24 hours a day that they need to achieve to be likable and lovable. So really, the job of a parent in this culture is to send a counter cultural message and to say to our kids, you matter no matter what. You are actually not your successes and you are not your failures. You are you. You are lovable no matter what. And what I have found actually is that it's. Sounds counterintuitive. It feels like if we're just telling kids they're lovable, no matter what that they will lose inspiration, they'll lose motivation. But actually, I found that to be the opposite, that when kids feel like they matter, no matter what, they have the courage to reach for high goals, because they know that failures and setbacks are not an indictment of their worth, and so they are willing to reach for the high goals. So I would say for parents to just keep sending that message, day in and day out, that I love you. You are not your success and you are not your failure.

Rachel Richards: 15:37

I do wonder. Some parents say, Oh, well, you know, my kids have got to do all these things. It's really, really important, and I know that they need to get into this university or college. And if I just let up and I say, oh, that stuff doesn't matter, then I'll create entitled kids, or they'll miss the mark. What would you say to a parent who who thinks that way?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 15:58

I would say to parents that in high achieving communities, there is a rampant problem with cheating. So we know our kids can can cheat to get the grades if they think that that's what they need in order to be loved. So what I would say to parents is focus on how the work gets done. Focus on the work habits. Focus on giving them skills and scaffolding that some students need more than others. And if you focus on how the work gets done, the good grades will come. So I would focus again on what time of day your student does their homework, how far in advance they're doing it. So really make the assumption, because it's just true that all children want to do well. So if you have a child who isn't doing well, get curious and not furious. Maybe there's a learning difference that's gone undiagnosed. Maybe they don't know how to work, maybe they don't understand what it takes to get an A so really letting our kids know we are on their team, that we know they want to be a success and that we are here to help them. That is how we motivate them, with what I call clean fuel, as opposed to dirty fuel. Dirty fuel is criticism or fear or comparison that might get your kid to study for the Spanish quiz on Friday, but over time, that dirty fuel is going to clog the engine. Clean Fuel is how we raise achievers for life.

Rachel Richards: 17:43

Wow, yeah. And you wrote never enough before. I think mattering took seven years, didn't it, and you wrote never enough and published that some time ago, and then you've been saying you think people should read mattering first and then never enough. Why that way around.

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 18:01

What I've come to realize is that we can't give our kids what we don't have. And if we don't feel like we matter, or our mattering feels contingent on our performance, how we look, how popular we are, what our house looks like, et cetera, we can't give our kids the message that they matter no matter what. So the mattering book that just came out is really a guide for high achieving parents, for parents who have been absorbing the messages of our culture and who may be feeling like they're not enough. And here is how we can build up our own sense of enoughness so that we can be those sources of support for our kids.

Rachel Richards: 18:46

So what about the parents who've got kids who are already installed in very, very competitive schools, they're surrounded by very, very competitive parents who judge because we do that, don't we? We sort of, we really do bathe in the waters around us and absorb the values from around us. How can they push back against that?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 19:06

So what I have found, both anecdotally but also in the research, is that you're not going to be able to convince everybody in your student school, everyone in your neighborhood, and you don't have to. What you need to do is surround yourself with one or two or three families that share your values, so that when you feel yourself getting pulled off, course, you can call them on the phone and say, remind me why we're not doing this or why we're not doing that. You need people in your life who will help you stay true to your values, so get clear on what you value and surround yourself with families who share those values.

Rachel Richards: 19:46

Jennifer, did you ever do any work on your values in terms of trying to figure them out at all?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 19:52

So I it's interesting that I grew up in a family that had very strong and clear values in my family. Of origin, the values that were high were family, friends and achieving not just for ourselves, but for others. I grew up in a Catholic family, and that's a Jesuit motto, not better than others, but better for others. So that it was important to be a contributing member of the family and of society, and so those were really clear values. So I find myself, I'm raising my kids in a very high achieving community. They go to very high achieving schools, and it is very easy to be absorbing the values of your community if you're not cognizant. And I was reading really interesting research about intrinsic values versus extrinsic values. So intrinsic values are things like wanting to be a good neighbor, wanting to be pro social good, to the environment, wanting to grow as a person. Extrinsic values are things like wanting the brand name college or the big house or popularity, or to have a certain image, and values operate like a zero sum game. So the more time and energy you spend in your life pursuing extrinsic values, materialistic goals, the less room in your high in your life, or in your in the time of your life to to pursue the intrinsic ones. And it matters because extrinsic values are linked with negative mental health and substance abuse, disorder and intrinsic values are linked with the well being we want for ourselves and for our kids. And it's not that families in high achieving communities have bad values, it's that our extrinsic values are constantly being activated. So this is why it's so important to have those families around us who will activate the intrinsic values, who will remind us of our values, and we really need to focus on them at home, just like we would any at risk behavior. We need to have 101 minute conversations about values, just like you would about drugs and alcohol or other risky behaviors. So those, some of those conversations about values, what we value as a family, have been really some of the strongest conversations and most meaningful that I've ever had with my kids. So we have them. We have them a lot, so I keep a close eye on my values, and I try to keep them in balance. It's not that I don't like shiny things. I do. I like shiny things, but I know that I need to balance those shiny outcomes, those shiny goals, with intrinsic ones.

Rachel Richards: 22:26

I love that. Wow. That's something I've been talking quite a lot about in terms of parenting. And I think a lot of us have really struggled. If you come from a household where you don't really, you weren't brought up with strong values, or they weren't really made very clear. I think holding firm when you're trying to raise your own family can be really, really rocky and quite difficult. So focusing in on those values can be amazing. And I love what you're saying about the extrinsic values, and in your book, never enough. Some of the stuff that really astounded me was the impact that it has on kids when they grew up in an environment of, you know, high wealth, a lot of achievement culture, but they ended up with the same levels of drug abuse and alcohol abuse and depression that kids might have from really disadvantaged households. Why is that so?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 23:18

It is because of the excessive pressure to achieve. It is the belief that I am what I do, I am what I have, and that is what is putting these young people at risk. Another risk factor is when we are overly self focused on our own goals and resumes. It sets us up to live a very up and down life. I don't know how else to put it, that when we are raised with intrinsic values, or when intrinsic values are stressed, it forces us to turn our self focused lens outward and see ourselves as part of a bigger whole. So it puts less emphasis and weight on an individual resume, and instead, we could see how we can add value in other ways to the world and how important that is

Rachel Richards: 24:04

and do to what, where does social media fit in all of this? Do you think that people should be trying to keep their kids away from social media as much as possible? Because obviously the values that are being pushed on there may not fit at all with the sorts of values in your own community?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 24:20

Yeah, I think social media is a magnifier and an accelerant of what is happening and has been happening over the last few decades. I don't think it's the source for most kids, but I do think it is exacerbating what we are seeing, and I absolutely agree with you that social media activates those extrinsic values. So as parents, we need to be thinking about, how many hours a day do you want to put your child in front of advertising that is harmful to right? Yes, it is really harmful, harmful advertising. So as parents, I would, I would be taking as much. Interest in their online life as I do, what's happening at the party on Friday night or the lunchroom table. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 25:07

Is there anything else that you would like to tell parents that they could be doing now in their community, at work or at home that could make a big difference?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 25:18

So there was advice I got from Mark Brackett at the Yale Center for emotional intelligence that I think has been very helpful. He said, think about your children 10 or 20 years from now. What is the story you want them to tell about their childhood and about their relationship with you, and then ask yourself if you're helping them tell that story. Oh, that's a good one.

Rachel Richards: 25:48

Oh, gosh, I would love to hear what listeners have to say about that one, and whether they feel that they are actually fulfilling that that's a really fantastic question. Wonderful. Thank you. If people want to get in contact with you, what's the best way of doing that?

Jennifer Breheny-Wallace: 26:04

My website, Jennifer B wallace.com, you can sign up for my newsletter, or on Instagram at Jennifer brihenny Wallace, or LinkedIn, brilliant, brilliant.

Rachel Richards: 26:15

I'm going to sign up to that newsletter if you thought this was useful, please, please, please, right now, just send it to at least one or two or three. Just build a community around this, this whole concept of mattering, because that's how we do it, right? Share it with other people, and then we can get the message out there. If you want to contact me, i@www.teenagersuntangled.com'm everything's there, and that's it from me. Have a great week. Big hug, bye, bye.