Does the thought of tracking your food in My Fitness Pal or another tool scare you because your think you'll have to do it forever? In this episode Couture Coaches Allison and Hilary discuss how tracking your food can be a game-changer for achieving weight loss and fitness goals but it's not something you have to do forever. This episode might re-define your relationship with food and fitness!
Listen up to learn:
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Want to start boosting your metabolism today? Buy our $79 DIY, self-paced "Master Your Metabolism" course.
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Does the thought of tracking your food in My Fitness Pal or another tool scare you because your think you'll have to do it forever? In this episode Couture Coaches Allison and Hilary discuss how tracking your food can be a game-changer for achieving weight loss and fitness goals but it's not something you have to do forever. This episode might re-define your relationship with food and fitness!
Listen up to learn:
Thanks for listening, we hope you enjoyed it. Follow us for more tips, tricks, and support in our private Facebook Group, Boost Your Metabolism After Age 30.
Take our FREE quiz: What's Sabotaging Your Metabolism?
Follow us on Instagram @couture_fitness_coaching
Check at our website and blog.
Grab our free mini course - The REAL Reason you can't lose weight
Want to start boosting your metabolism today? Buy our $79 DIY, self-paced "Master Your Metabolism" course.
Want customized plan for boosting your metabolism? Learn more about our 1:1 coaching
Reserve your spot with a Couture Coach: Buy a 1:1 coaching package
Welcome everyone. Today. You have me, allison, and I actually have one of our wonderful fitness and nutrition coaches on as a special guest today, so I will introduce her in just a minute. First, I want to talk about what's going on with us at Couture Fitness and how you can work with us. So if you go to our website, couturefitnesscoachingcom, there are a couple of ways to work with us. One we have a free mini course that you can get from our website. It's called the Real Reason you Can't Lose Weight. We also have a paid course. It's called Master your Metabolism and you can find it on the Metabolism course tab on our website. That is a $79 course and it kind of it really walks you through how you can repair your metabolism all on your own, if you don't want to want to do our one-on-one coaching program. And then, finally, our most high touch program. The way you can work with us and get the most hand-holding for lack of a better word is through our one-on-one coaching program. So with that, you would be assigned to one of our fitness and nutrition coaches. You would also be able to join two different calls that we host each week. Those are group calls, and then we also have a private client portal with lots and lots of other resources out there to help you. So those are the different ways that you can work with us. So I wanted to mention those before I really dive into the topic that we're going to do a deep dive into today. Just to give a very brief intro of that topic it is we're going to be talking about do I need to track my food forever? So you probably hear us talking a lot on the podcast about tracking our food and knowing how many calories we're eating and things like that.
Speaker 1:And certainly nutrition and tracking macros is one of the pillars of our program. We like the macros-based approach because it's flexible. People like just have different preferences for foods. You can also use macros if you're trying to work around maybe a food intolerance or a sensitivity. It's something you can do while you're traveling, so you can still be successful on your plan while you're traveling. Or you're going to parties and maybe not eating your typical foods. You can still be successful and stick to your plan if you're tracking your macros.
Speaker 1:And then, finally, a huge thing that a huge benefit of it, I think, is that it can teach you awareness. So some people have no idea what they're eating, and tracking can be very eye-opening to them. They might realize, wow, I've been really under eating, or wow, I'm eating almost no protein, or wow, I'm overeating completely. So I think there are times when it's important to track, but I think there are other times when it's not necessary. And so Hilary came to me with this idea of a topic, coach Hilary, because I think she had had clients asking well, am I going to have to track my food forever? So before we get way into this topic, I just want Hilary to introduce yourself. Maybe tell us just a little bit about yourself and how you got into fitness and nutrition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, allison. Hi, so I am Coach Hilary. I've been with Couture Fitness for over a year now probably about a year and a half and I got into nutrition and fitness really around college, played sports, kind of growing up, and went off to college and gained that lovely freshman 15 that so many of us do. And about my sophomore year I started figuring out the rec center and kind of slowly but surely I definitely started out as a cardio bunny, like probably most of us have. So I was always found on the treadmill or half running up marathons or spin classes and then, probably about 10, 11 years ago, really dove into the world of CrossFit, which led me into lifting heavy and kind of hanging up my spin shoes and tennis shoes, if you will. And now I really am mainly into lifting and nutrition.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of my background. I'm here in Texas, I have two young kids and a wonderful husband and, yeah, I'm here to just kind of talk about maintenance. I think we talk a lot about what tracking looks like and, like you mentioned, it is very important to wear. It kind of brings your attention to what you might be eating, but I don't think you should have to do it for forever. So we'll talk about that here in a little bit, but I'm super excited to cover the whole topic about maintenance and do you really have to track for the rest of your life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Hilary definitely practices what she preaches. She is super fit all year long. Hilary looks fantastic, okay, so I kind of mentioned at the beginning what you know why tracking can be, why it's important and why we use it. I think there are definitely times that it's an important tool to use. So, for example, if you're not sure what you're eating, it's a great tool to you know, give you that awareness and then help you decide what you need to change in order to meet your goals.
Speaker 1:If you listen to this podcast at all, you know that it's not as simple as oh, I just need to eat this. A lot of the clients we work with actually have to eat more in order to reach their goals. So I think, just to know what direction you need to go, it's important to track. I think if you are in a fat loss phase, it's important to track. It's easy to stay on track if you are tracking. It also gives you that little bit of flexibility in a fat loss phase if you're tracking your macros versus maybe eating like a plant. And I also think when you're coming out of a fat loss phase, maybe gradually stepping your food backup into maintenance, it's also important to track. So, hilary, when do you think it's important to track and when do you think it's really not necessary?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I will say, and I know that you, that all of the coaches, kind of follow different protocols. I know, joe, I don't know exactly where you land. I know Joe tracks every single day. I surprise, surprise, do not track almost ever, maybe two weeks out of the year, and that is really only to make sure that I'm eating enough of my protein.
Speaker 2:So I think it's important to track, like you said, when you have a goal. So I like to think about it this way. Think about a budget, okay, and we should all kind of have a rough idea of where our money is going. So we should have a rough idea. You may not have to follow a line by line item, but we should have a rough idea of our income, of how much goes to the mortgage or rent, how much goes. You know we're all kind of roughly budgeting, but what happens when you have a goal? If you have a goal of a vacation or a down payment for a car or a house, you're most likely going to control your budget a lot more. So you may say well, I can't go out to eat three times a week, we're going to do one. That is very similar to tracking your macro. So if you have a goal, if you have a specific, if you need to just kind of know where your calories are coming from, I think tracking is a wonderful place. But for the most part, if there's not a specific goal, you should absolutely be aware enough of your body and your food intake and outtake that you don't necessarily have to track every day. So I think of it a lot like that, like we should always have a rough idea of what's going in and what's going out, but you don't necessarily have to micromanage it with numbers all the time.
Speaker 2:So that's very much how I live my life and I think it takes most people have to track for years. So the reason that I have, kind of quote unquote, earned this right to not track anymore is because I did track for a long time. I can look at a plate and tell you roughly how many carbs, proteins and fats, but that's simply because I've put in the reps, if you will. I've spent years figuring this out. There is no problem with tracking. It gives you awareness. I think a lot of people, so many clients, and we know this. What do most people lack? Protein. Most people have no idea that they're hitting 60 or 70 grams of protein. So yeah, I think you have to put in the time and you have to be aware of what your macros look like so that you don't have to track for forever. But if you are able to kind of eyeball that and get comfortable with those ideas, you absolutely don't have to track in maintenance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, basically I think what Hillary is saying is that when you've got a goal, such as maybe you're in a fat loss phase or maybe you really want to put on some muscle, you may need to track during that time. However, when you're in maintenance and we talk a lot about maintenance on the podcast, and that's really where you need to live your life most of the time I would say 75, 80% of your year.
Speaker 2:I would say eight or nine months out of the year. You should be in maintenance and I know that that blows people's minds. But for maintenance is think of those words right, cut, cutting, taking things out, or even maybe you need to be adding more protein. But for the most part, if we're putting a magnifying glass on something that shouldn't be forever, your goal should not constantly be to eat as little as possible and continue to survive. You want to truly think of that word maintain. You should want to be able to maintain your lifestyle for eight to nine months out of the year, really only using those cutting times when you have a goal, when we're looking for something specific. You have a vacation coming up, something like that. So, yeah, you really should be in quote unquote maintenance for the, like you said, 75, 80% of the year.
Speaker 1:And figuring out your maintenance. That also. I feel like it's kind of an exercise and trial and error a little bit too, and just experience. Hillary, probably at this point you kind of just know this is about how much food I eat each day, without even tracking it, and I know my weight's going to stay pretty stable. I feel like just figuring that out definitely takes some time. And what maintenance is? It's really just how much you need to eat and how much you you know, also paired with how much you're moving and exercising in order to be at a stable weight, basically keeping your body kind of just right where it is. And we've talked I think we did a whole episode on online calculators. Just because you went to the calculator that said, oh, your maintenance is this does not mean it's true. These can be so far off, especially for our ladies who have dieted for a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very personalized to you. At the end of the day, obviously, here as coaches, our job is to hold your hand to try and find your maintenance. Ideally, once we cut, once we get there, we want to reverse back up to maintenance. Our job is to help you find that maintenance. But you also have to be aware that there is no calculator, there is no specific, so many people just want an answer and it may not be an answer. It's going to be a multitude of factors to get you to that maintenance range. So while we're here to help you, at the end of the day it's going to be your body to. You really got to pay attention to how much you're moving. How often are you willing to work out? Then, of course, the food part is probably the largest part.
Speaker 1:There was a time when my maintenance the amount I was eating to maintain my weight was probably 1600 calories. That was doing cardio, because I had really damaged my metabolism. Now my maintenance is probably it's just a little above 2000 calories. So you can do things to change this maintenance, which we're not going to really get into today, but that is something you can and shouldn't everybody's goal to.
Speaker 2:In my ideal world, maintenance is eating as many calories as you can, yeah, and maintaining the same I don't want to say body weight, but the same body physique. So I think that should be the goal for most people. That's certainly my goal.
Speaker 1:Me too, because I love food Me too, Finally, we're going to talk about a couple of different strategies that you can use when you're at maintenance, Other than just. I have to track everything I eat forever and ever. So why don't you tell us, Hillary, what you personally do when you're at maintenance?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, like I said, I very rarely track, but, again, I've also been doing this for a very long time. I am also a creature of habit, which I think is something that you will notice most successful people who do not have to track you know, I don't we're I have almost the same breakfast every morning. My husband is a hunter and a grill master, so my breakfast is always, you know, some type of venison sausage brisket. It's always very protein heavy. Well, I guess if you were to walk into my house at all three main meals I'm always, they're going to look very similar. They're going to have some type of protein, whether that be venison, chicken, beef, brisket, et cetera, eggs, and then they're always going to have a few vegetables and then some type of starch. I do love snacks, so that is probably the one thing that I do have to not necessarily control, but just be mindful of. I try to tell people and people will laugh, but I'm serious. Like if you want a cookie, go eat a cookie, but have a cheese stick before or have something mind a little protein heavy, but never in my wildest dreams. Like I may have popcorn but I would probably have three slices of deli meat with it. It's just learning to be balanced. But I guess, going back to you know those main three meals are going to look very similar almost every single day. Not a lot varies, a few vegetables maybe, but I mean my breakfast is almost always some type of lean protein, my lunch is always usually a large salad and then dinner is kind of whatever the family is having. So again they're all going to look very similar.
Speaker 2:A few strategies that I like to use for people to slowly, because it can be scary If you have tracked for three, six, nine months, that initial as crazy as it sounds, that initial fear of not tracking. I do remember that and so I tell people you know you can look at it a few ways. You could have one day, a week off if you want. You know, kind of, and again, I think a while back this used to be called a cheat meal or cheat day. We don't necessarily call that anymore because you do have to be mindful. You can't eat great during the day, during the week, and then on Saturdays and Sundays have nothing but pizza, beer and wings and expect to get back into it. So it does need to be some type of mindfulness, but maybe you slowly do one day a week you don't track, and then that becomes two days a week and you don't track.
Speaker 2:Something I mentioned earlier is just tracking your protein. Protein is king and I think a lot of us do not hit that protein level. It's that's probably the hardest for most of us to go. So if you wanna kind of take out those carbs and fats and don't necessarily worry about it, but strictly track your protein, I think that's also a great way to kind of slowly step your way from not tracking everything but just kind of tracking things that really matter. What else you know, just being mindful of what you're eating. I mean and I hate to say this, but the 80-20 rule. If 80% of your plate or meals look like a protein, a vegetable and a starch, that leaves you 20%. That leaves you a snack or a dessert at dinner, or maybe if you cookies here on the side, it really allows you. If you have most of your plates balanced, it kinda allows you to have a little bit more fun in the afternoon or in those gaps.
Speaker 1:I guess I should say Okay, so I've got a few follow up questions for you. So how many months a year would you say you spend at maintenance, and maybe that's 12 months out of the year. I almost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really do probably spend 11 months of the year. Earlier we had what was that? In June I think we had a photo shoot for Couture and I kinda wanted to. I don't compete. I get asked all the time do I do bikini competitions? I don't. I don't have, that's just not my thing. Like mad power to anyone who does, that's just not my thing. However, I did have this photo shoot so I thought, okay, let's see how lean I can get. So I think I quote, unquote, tracked and cut for about three or four weeks and I use my maintenance is what I track all year round.
Speaker 2:Now there are some preferences. I am very lean, which allows me. My body burns a lot of calories because I lift heavy all the time, so that allows me probably a little bit more fun, if you will. Another point would be I use data points. I use how my clothes are fitting and how my and, of course, the scale a little bit. I do weigh myself daily. I'll take measurements, probably once or twice a week I mean once or twice a month and then really how my clothes fit and if they're starting to get a little bit tighter, if I'm starting to feel uncomfortable, I will just simply I don't necessarily track, but I will just cut certain things out.
Speaker 2:So instead of popcorn and two cookies, if I'm feeling a little higher on that maintenance range, I may skip the cookies and just have the popcorn. That's kind of I can self-regulate pretty well because I know my body so well. So I tell everybody, you're not going to be a certain point on the scale, but for me anywhere between. I have about a five pound range that anytime I get above that that means I'm going over my maintenance and I need to kind of reel it back in. So you should be able to just kind of self-regulate that by yourself at some point. That's of course the goal for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a great way to do it and it's not consuming your every minute of every day like, oh, should I eat this? You know, you're just kind of staying in a range eating your healthy food. Obviously, you're fitting in a cookie and here and there. Do you have any idea how many calories approximately you eat during maintenance?
Speaker 2:I probably eat 25 to 2800 calories a day. I am a very busy body like it. You might have to strap me to the couch, so I am constantly walking and moving. I walk my kids to school. We often play in the afternoon when it's not 142 degrees outside. I work out almost every day. Don't shame me, but it's my happy place. It's not necessarily going hard. I'm not constantly maxing out, but I do lift very heavy for probably minimum 60 to 90 minutes a day, very minimal cardio. But yeah, I mean I probably eat 25 to 2800 calories daily and I've built up to that right. I mean there was a point to where, like you said, my maintenance calories probably at some point were 1300 calories and then 1400 and 1500. And just, slowly but surely I've trained my body and again, lifting heavy has allowed me to continue to eat and eat and eat and eat.
Speaker 1:It's pretty easy to stay in maintenance. When your maintenance is that high. It's really easy to stay within that, because that's a lot of food, so that is not You're right and it is, but again, I've worked hard for that right.
Speaker 2:So if your maintenance is 1200 calories, that's a problem. We want to slowly reverse you up. So yeah, I mean, and again, if your calories are 1200 and you're gaining weight, then that's one of those situations we talked about earlier that you are unfortunately gonna have to manage your macros, because that shouldn't be the solution to the problem. We're definitely gonna need to add some calories there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and like Hillary said, she worked for those macros. Like you, lifting heavy is the. That's how, if you like food and you want to eat a lot of food and you don't eat a lot of fat, you need to lift heavy.
Speaker 2:I get all the time constantly. People are like well, what are you training for? And I'm like to be able to eat as much as possible. Like I don't think you understand. We laughed last month. We went on a cruise and I think I got three or four plates each meal and my mom was like Hillary and I'm like what, if I'm here, I'm gonna eat the food. I've worked hard. I deserve to eat all this food, so it's fine, yeah, so anyways.
Speaker 1:Well, awesome, you definitely so. That is. I think that is an amazing strategy. It works very well for you. And I want to talk about some other strategies. I'll tell you what I do in my maintenance, because I know you were saying Joe tracks pretty much everything all year round. I think part of this it's a personality thing. Some people love, love, love tracking and some people tolerate it for a period of time when they have a goal, but they don't want to do it forever. So for me personally and I also spend some years, I probably spend the entire year in maintenance, but, like Hillary was saying, we did do a little photo shoot this summer. I did an eight week cut, so this year I will be I'll spend 10 months in maintenance.
Speaker 2:I remember us complaining together about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, this is how we hate to cut more than anyone. Actually, we like our food, but what I do when I'm in maintenance, I would say I track 90% of my days. So I think part of that is I'm extremely type A. I love to write things out of my planner. I like tracking, so for me it's not a burden, I do actually like it. When I first discovered tracking, it was like the most magical. It gave me so much food freedom to know.
Speaker 1:Wow, I can actually like fit in this ice cream cone, for example, and not have guilt, whereas before I would have been like, oh, I should eat ice cream because it's not good for you. Well, now you know, with tracking I know, hey, I am still hitting, you know, my macro goals. I fit in this ice cream and there's no guilt. So for me it allows me to eat junk food with no guilt. I do fit in at least once a day.
Speaker 1:I always have dessert with dinner, and so do my kids, and some days I have it with lunch also. Heck yeah, for breakfast I want to have. You know, if we're going to go out and have pancakes at a restaurant, I like to know I can have these and I just kind of move my day around. So I do try Most days, even when I'm in maintenance, but for me I really only look at protein and cowl. That's another thing that once you're in maintenance you know if I'm way over on my fat to a day, you know under on my carbs, for example, no big deal as long as I've gotten in enough protein and my calories are kind of near where I like them to be.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I'm not shooting for a number, I'm shooting for like a range. So let's say I'm trying to eat around 2000 calories. If I'm 100 calories under, 100 calories over, no big deal. And I just want to kind of hit my floor. For me it's at least 120 grams of protein. It's usually more like 140. So I'm kind of looking at those numbers, so I try, and I try pretty loosely. When I'm in maintenance I don't really measure things, I eyeball things. But again, I have been doing this like Hillary for a very, very long time. I can look at, like you said, I could look at a plate. I could look at anyone's plate and be like, oh right, this many protein and this many, you know this many hundreds and disclaimer we're not judging, we're just you can, yeah, like you do you.
Speaker 2:But, but you can. You know, one of the the food freedoms, if you will, is, once you become so good at it you can look at a plate and think, ok, this is how I could make it balance, this is how it fits, and move on with my day. One thing I don't think we mentioned is, you know, on the opposite hand you said you like to see it. I can become triggered by that, and I know that there's other people who can. So I want to say that we do work.
Speaker 2:If you do want to work with coaches, but have a deep hate, or scared or anything, of macros, there are other techniques that we can use to still work with you, but don't have to do macros. So I know, for me, you know, that can become very obsessive. I'm also type A, I like to be perfect, I you know. And and when it becomes, when you, when macros feel like a heavy coat or a heavy burden over you, that's when it does become an issue. So please always tell all your coaches that, hey, you know this might not be, you know yourself better than anybody else. So please know that, even if you don't want to be in maintenance but still want to cut and we have talked a lot about tracking. Just know that there are other ways around it, kind of like the plate that we're talking about, the balance plate. Don't let that hold you back. We could absolutely work with you. That doesn't have to necessarily continue to be tracking macros for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a very, very good point. I think a lot of this figuring out what works for you is a figuring out, yeah, exactly, it can be very different for any given person and all of them are perfectly, perfectly fine.
Speaker 2:Normal and yep, and so we, we can adapt with you right along with it. But I I've gotten that a few times is like I people say you know I've tried this before and it sends me down a spiral and honestly, that's probably 90 percent of the time why I don't track. I know myself well enough to know that it's not always healthy for me, so why add an add to me? Counting can be an added stress, so I prefer not to add that stress so we can always work with everybody. I just feel like you know that that needs to be addressed and said as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree. So I want to touch on just a few other strategies. If maybe maybe you're tracking now and you're trying to transition OK from it maybe to more of like what what Hillary does. I have not really done a lot of these strategies, but there's some that I've heard other people do, so I want to mention them because maybe you'll feel like, wow, I really think that sounds like a good work for me.
Speaker 1:So one thing that I've heard is you could track just your breakfast and your lunch and then you kind of know OK, I've got a thousand calories left for dinner and any you know a nighttime snack or dinner and a drink or whatever that can be one by you. Conversely, you could say you know what, I pretty much get the same breakfast and lunch every day, so I'm not going to track those, but I'm only going to track my dinner and I know I've got a thousand calories that I that I track for good. So you could do that. If you're trying to transition out of tracking, you could track Hillary mentioned this but maybe you could do just one week day and one weekend day just to kind of make sure. Ok, am I in the ballpark where I feel like I should be. You can do that, maybe one week each month. You can track just to say, hey, am I, have I started to trend eating way too little and maybe eating way too much?
Speaker 1:You could also do kind of what I do and only track your protein and calories. It is still tracking, but it makes you maybe not as obsessive over those numbers and trying to ballpark those too. You could do and I think this is maybe similar to what Hillary does just make sure every bill has a protein fiber, some vegetables, a healthy fat and a bunch of junk food. Or you could say I'm not going to track at all until I feel like things are going in a direction I don't like. So maybe I'm not going to track unless I gain 10 pounds over what I'm happy, or something like that, and then maybe I'll track. So lots and lots of different things that you can play around with and see what feels the most sustainable for me. You've got to figure out something like you could do forever. Some people thinking they have to track forever is terrible for me. I'm like I love track. I do play to do it forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you're like me, I feel like the last part that you mentioned is my preferred. You know, I have an idea of where the range of where my body sits at most times I still do. I do an in-body test just about every three months, which we, I know on the podcast we've talked about that, but that's basically just the body fat to scale ratio. You know, as long as all those are, again maintaining sitting in the middle, it allows me the freedom that I want and need. But then, if any of those, just set yourself guardrails, you know, and if you slope too low or slope too high, then we simply adjust our guardrails, we get back into the tracking, get back on plan and then continue on with life.
Speaker 2:But I think, alison, what you've mentioned, you know I have had and of course we've had clients graduate, you know, and that's, at the end of the day, that's our goal for you. We want to be able to hold your hand for however long you need it three months, six months, could be a year but eventually we want y'all to be able to look at the plate and figure out your maintenance and we don't want you to have to use my fitness power chronometer or whatever you track for the rest of your life? That would be the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, do you have anything else you want to add about this topic? I feel like it gives people a lot of different ideas and maybe a lot of focus. They don't want to track forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hope so. And again, there is no wrong or right answer. This is completely up to you, completely how you want to. You know, like Joe, if you want to and I guess even Alison, like, if you want to track every single day, go for it. If that gives you the power and the knowledge, it's also okay, again, to set those guardrails. And you know, just kind of keep yourself in check, keep yourself accountable and adjust as needed. So this is all fluid. This is life.
Speaker 2:I do want to make sure that you know when we say maintenance, we are talking about a maintenance range. You cannot freak out if the scale goes up one to two pounds or if the scale goes down one to two pounds. Give yourself a range that doesn't make you crazy. So I suggest my body doesn't fluctuate that much. A five pound range is fine for me. You may be a large fluctuator and you may need a 10 pound range, but set that range and make sure that you make a deal with yourself that as long as we're in these numbers, I'm okay being it. Maintenance I'm okay. Trying to continue to add more calories, I'm okay trying to, you know, go to the gym and put that food to use and lift. So just don't be too hard on yourself. Give yourself realistic expectations, and those are probably my biggest tips and tricks.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, hillary, thank you so much, first of all, for suggesting this. I think podcast is a really good and important one and also for the guest on the podcast, of course, early on, hillary is one of our wonderful, quick and efficient bookshops. If you're too excited for our run on the bookshops program, you are welcome to Facebook. Hillary, she is amazing. She's a great podcast author, so know that you can request her and that's really all. That's not for you today is want to work with us? Make sure I know the website and that's coachingcom, or scroll down to show us and got lots of links there and see all the many, many ways and work with us. Thanks, everyone, thanks.