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How We Can Heal
A podcast to share deep conversations about How We Can Heal from life’s toughest circumstances.
How We Can Heal
From Teen Ultra Runner to Global Athlete: Lucy Bartholomew's Journey back to UTMB
Lucy Bartholomew brings Australian sunshine to this captivating conversation about finding purpose on mountain trails and wisdom in difficult moments. When Lucy was just 15, she discovered her passion for ultra running alongside her father, embarking on a journey that would take her from weekend camping trips to world championship podiums.
What began as quality time with her dad evolved into a career marked by remarkable achievements—winning Ultra Trail Cape Town 100K, placing third at Western States, and becoming one of only two women to complete both UTMB and the Ironman World Championships in a single year. Yet through her success, Lucy maintains a refreshing perspective that prioritizes joy, connection, and process over outcomes.
The conversation takes a profound turn as Lucy reflects on her father's heartbreaking yet transformative Western States experience in 2023. After ten years of trying to gain entry through the lottery, he completed the entire 100-mile course but missed the official cutoff by just two minutes. Through a documentary that captured this emotional journey, her father became an unexpected spokesperson for valuing the experience over the result—a powerful reminder that what matters most isn't the finish time but the courage to begin and the determination to continue.
Lucy shares her practical wisdom for navigating both trail and life challenges: breaking overwhelming distances into manageable segments, recognizing when physical needs like hunger are masquerading as emotional lows, and maintaining unwavering optimism that "maybe it will get better." Her ability to find joy in the process—even when that means hiking up a mountain pass while eating pizza during UTMB—exemplifies why she's beloved in the ultra-running community.
Whether you're a seasoned ultra runner or someone who's never laced up running shoes, Lucy's insights on resilience, community, and finding your own path will inspire you to embrace challenges with curiosity and courage. As she prepares for another UTMB race, her message remains clear: sometimes the most meaningful journeys are the ones where we dare to cut our own trail.
Welcome back to the how we Can Heal podcast. Today, our guest is Lucy Bartholomew. When Lucy was just 15 years old, she stepped into the world of ultra running as she ran her first 100-kilometer race alongside her dad, ash Bartholomew. At that time, lucy discovered her love for the sport and has since traveled the world running winning the Ultra Trail Cape Town 100K and placing third at the Western States 100 in 2018. Competed at the Ironman World Championships in Kona, which made her one of only two women who raced UTMB and the Ironman World Championships in the same year. Based in Australia, lucy runs to connect with nature and community and is well known for her sunny outlook on life, her determined attitude and her ability to enjoy the process even when things get tough. Today, she shares her plans for another UTMB race and tells us about what she's learned from challenges on the trail, both her own and her father's. She brought me a dose of Australian sun in the middle of my day, and I think you'll feel it too. Please join me in welcoming Lucy Bartholomew to the show. Please join me in welcoming Lucy Bartholomew to the show.
Lisa Danylchuk:The more you learn about trauma, the more you see it everywhere. It's a superpower to see it, and it's also necessary to see beyond it. This fall, I'm offering a new class Freedom from Trauma. In it, I'll describe why it's essential for us to identify trauma and how we can approach healing in a way that we don't end up swimming in it. You'll learn simple, not always easy, perspective and practices to help you move out of the trauma vortex and stand in something stronger and more powerful than the impacts of harm. I'm looking forward to sharing what I know with you in this new way hacks of harm. I'm looking forward to sharing what I know with you in this new howwecanhealcom/ freedom from trauma to register for the training.
Lisa Danylchuk:Welcome, Lucy
Lisa Danylchuk:,
Lisa Danylchuk:Lucy Bartholomew, to the how we Can Heal podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. I'm so eager to talk to you. I've been following you just online and you're running in your journeys for many years and really excited to share you with the audience here.
Lucy Bartholomew:Oh well, thank you so much. I'm really excited for it.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, so I'd love to start with the beginning for you. What got you to fall in love? I'm assuming you're in love with trail running. Is that a fair assumption? I am still in love with this sport. Yeah, when did you first fall in love with it? What was that? What were those early moments like?
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, I think, going back, you know there's no doubt that the reason that I found this sporting and fell in love with it was because of my dad. He's been a huge role model and very pivotal in this whole thing. He was always a runner, a road runner. He ran to commute, to get to work. I was young, not interested. Running was pretty uncool. I wanted to be cool and liked by people, so I didn't like running either.
Lucy Bartholomew:But when he signed up for his first ultra, so above the marathon distance, and went to the trails, I started to see him go away for the weekend, so these really cool places in nature and see parts of Australia that you can only go on foot, and he'd come back with really cool stories, really cool pictures. And I was just intrigued and I was like can I come along? We can camp together and I can ride my bike next to you or just wait and hang out, and then we'd go to a nice cafe and then road trip home. That was our weekend. And so I kind of like I went and I'd ride with him and as I was riding I remember thinking he says he's going running, but it's a very loose term for what he's doing. You know there's a lot of walking. He stops, looks at waterfalls, birds, animals, whatever. And so once he started to get onto some more gnarlier trails that I wasn't able to ride, I just left the bike back at the place and I decided to start running with him.
Lucy Bartholomew:And I think what's those early memories and what's really important is that it was never about like how far we went. I never knew the data and the stats and it wasn't about that. It was just like dad picked a route. We road tripped there. When I was younger and trying to get my car license, I would drive and it was very exciting to me. We'd then camp and I'd always Google like cause I'm a real big foodie a place for dinner and a place for brunch after I run. And yeah, I just felt like it was so much more than the running itself and that really instilled in me like, wow, you know, this sport is cool because of the people and the places and the food and the memories, and running's a vehicle to experience that at a heightened way.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, definitely, and it is heightened especially if you are someone who already loves food and then you go out on the trail all day. You come back ravenous and even more excited and eager, and probably sleeping even better if you didn't overdose on caffeine on the trail, right? So it's so great to think about those times with your dad, especially when you talk about being a teenager, because I've worked with teens for a long time really in my career and it's like those adult relationships can be rough at that time, Right. So to be able to have time away and then to start to notice like, oh, this isn't really about running. You know, there might be some running involved, but there's hiking and there's food and there's community and all these things, Do you feel like having that time together changed your experience as an adolescent, like as you're becoming an adult?
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, definitely. I feel incredibly grateful that in those poignant years of 14, 15, 16, I found running and trail running in a community of people who are undeniably some of the most accepting people. You know, it's not about what you look like, it's really about getting out there and taking yourself to these places and doing things that are incredible. And running is a sport where you are the machine, you are the movement and you have to perform the act, and so it's really about looking after yourself. These people that I was surrounded by were just definitely older-aged people that became like little mums and dads to me, but just were more trying to look after their body and conserve and protect it to allow them to keep running in their life. And I think, being so young, I was just started to do the same thing at a very young age. I was like man, I got to look after myself and I want to do this forever and I want to be like these people in their fifties and sixties and be able to do the things that they're doing. So I feel really lucky.
Lucy Bartholomew:And now, you know, I do talks at schools and I see kids and young especially young girls in that age bracket and I just it really hurts my heart because I think that there's just social media and the like, society and the way that life is. It's just yeah. I mean, when I found the sport and I'd come to school, I wasn't the cool kid because I ran 50 kilometers or 100 Ks. No one really understood it. But I feel like nowadays to be accepted there's just a lot more pressure on it and to look a certain way and to spend your weekends in a certain social way as well. I think it's a really challenging thing and I feel so lucky to have had those foundations so early.
Lisa Danylchuk:And even to keep connection with adults. I feel like at that time in life, right to your parents sometimes people just really push away hard but also to a wider community of adults, and it sounds like you were benefiting from that wisdom of hey, you got to take care of this body. If you want to do these types of things, Like if you enjoy this, going out on the trail, hiking, running, biking, whatever there are things you can do to be able to keep doing that, and so you were learning that from a really young age. And I think also in sport or athletics there can be exploitation of your body, Like how can you make it produce the most results? You know, and we see athletes sometimes go back out on the court or into a game like hurt, right, Like really injured, where it's actually not helpful. But when you're thinking in this way of how do I nurture myself through a hundred mile race, right, it's funny because as I started getting into ultras, people oh, you know you've probably heard these things too oh, is that that's bad for your knees or that's not good for this, Right, that's not good for you and it's like, well, it really does also depend on how, with anything like not just what are you doing, but how are you doing it?
Lisa Danylchuk:Day today is be in nature and take steps forward at whatever pace is right in the moment and feed myself and water myself and like jump in the river or talk to a person if I want to. And then there's these other people out cheering and you know they have snacks and it just seems so ideal for me, Like wow, I can just find new places too, Like you mentioned, like I can go somewhere I've never been before, and then there's these little flags showing me where to go, and every once in a while those get taken down. But you know it's an adventure as you go. So I love that emphasis you have on caring for yourself. I'm curious, because now you've been sponsored for a long time as an athlete and so, moving from something that's pure joy and play into something that's your profession, how do you feel like you can keep that caring for yourself or that play or exploration alive?
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, and I was going to say, you know, I was taught those lessons early to look after myself and yet I found myself doing this or living this narrative and the story or similar story of people that I'd heard of before. You know that kind of you get a sniff of success. You think what you just got to do to be better than that is just more of everything. More is more. More will make you more um, race more, win more, lose more weight. You know like you can start to really unravel.
Lucy Bartholomew:And you know I had really great mentor and people in my lives and a loving family and I was in a really healthy sport and I still ended up doing the same, repeating those steps, and it's, you know, it's a narrative that will live on forever because it's just a high level sport and someone who wants to do something because they care deeply about it and they want to really sink their teeth into something, has the mentality and the attitude and the ability to apply that not just to the sport but to their everyday life, and so I think that that's just like a really important part to definitely flag and then, in terms of like turning a passion into a profession, I think that that's been something that I've really had to navigate. When I joined the sport, no one was doing it professionally. You did it for the love of the sport. Even when I won races I'd win, you know, like an oversized T-shirt or a piece of wood that they'd like nailed on first place.
Lucy Bartholomew:You know it was kind of like you do it because you love it.
Lisa Danylchuk:I got a big pine class once and it broke like 10 years later and I was like no, it's first place.
Lucy Bartholomew:I remember my dad and I did this race down on the coastline of Victoria called the Wilson's Prom, and the weather came in and we finished in the pouring rain and the race director had gone to the local pub to get dry and he just like left a laminated piece of paper and was like please write your finish time, take a chocolate frog, and like congratulations. And I was just like we spent 13 hours out there and you're telling me it was for something that I can go to the supermarket and buy for like a dollar 50. But it was like priceless memories and so that's where I started in the sport and then things started to change and it was really beautiful.
Lucy Bartholomew:Solomon was so respectful of being me, being 16 years old, and was kind of like you know, we'll support you locally, give you entry to races, shoes to wear until you're 18, and then we can talk about like something a little bit more global and a little bit yeah, definitely more pressure and definitely a little bit more expectation. But they have been so nurturing to my growth in the sport and the ups and downs and understanding that I was evolving not just as an athlete but as a human. I was a teenager and then I've become an adult and a young woman and they've really helped me kind of navigate that. So I feel so lucky to have brands that have been with me for pretty much my whole career. I've not really shifted around much because I feel like if you stay with me for the bad times, then you deserve to be with me for the good times, and so we've ridden that roller coaster together and that's really really helpful.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, it's a real relationship, right, I think even I'm thinking of other sports and people shifting teams all the time, or even the velocity of technology and change and information and distraction and starting over. Those relationships are so valuable and, like you said already today, and I've heard you and other people say so many times, like it's not really just about the running, it's about so much more than that and I think when you have a group of people and you have relationships whether it's a sponsor or it's teammates or whatever else that are supporting you, especially through hard times in life, hard times in sport, it's that's so valuable and we can I don't know we can like almost lean away from that in trying to just maintain right, trying to maintain or trying to optimize in the sport, and so I'm so glad you have that and you've had that from such a young age and that they were really respectful of you, cause that's not the story you always hear, right.
Lucy Bartholomew:No, definitely not.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah. So you talked about your dad and how he influenced you. I want to talk a little bit about his Western States. I watched, of course, lucy's dad and I'm wondering how that experience sits with you now, a few years later. And for those listening, lucy's ran Western States 100 miler very difficult to get into, lots of energy around it race here in California. And then her dad got in, was it? It was a few years after you had run it and came in third place. Yeah, yeah.
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, yeah, it was just a couple of years ago.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, yeah, it was 2023. So he came in 2023 and got a ticket to Western States which is like a I don't know the odds exactly like one in 1000 chance, and and then he had a really hard race right. It ended up being a really a big challenge and very emotional, and there's a video documentary on YouTube about it for anyone who hasn't seen it. How does that whole experience sitting with you now yeah.
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, I think you know it's really cool what that experience kind of opened up for, even for my dad, myself and my family. So dad had been trying to get into this race for 10 years and our whole family had kind of gone through the process with him. Because every December when they draw the lottery, you know it's kind of like, okay, if dad gets in for Christmas, I'm getting him, you know, an ice bandana or we're getting him flights to America or like this is how we're going to celebrate. And then every year it was kind of like, ok, maybe we get him some socks because he didn't get into Western states, so how can we like he would always be really down and then he'd have to look for that qualifying race to redo. And he started that process at age, you know, 50. So it was kind of like 10 years on, he's 62 when he raced, I'm 61, sorry.
Lucy Bartholomew:And when he finally got drawn, you know me and my brothers hadn't been together. My brothers live in different places for 10 years, pretty much the whole time. So we all came together in California and it was really beautiful, because one of my brothers, super not into running, doesn't really understand the sport or what we do and this was his first experience of like a big race and my other brother kind of dabbles in the sport, and then obviously myself, who has really strong ties to the race and thebles in the sport, and then obviously myself who has really strong ties to the race and the place and the people, and so I got to bring my family to what feels like my big American family and a place that feels like home. But you know, long story short is that dad, like the cutoff for the race to be an official finisher is 30 hours and dad finished in 30 hours and two minutes and he went off course.
Lucy Bartholomew:Um, sometimes those flags that we follow are not there yeah and uh, you know that's part of the process of trail running, you know there's paths in all directions, and he was tired in the dark, fatigued, and it's just the way it unraveled. But but I feel like speaking for myself, I feel just immense pride in what he kind of. It was a really hard thing because I'd said to Solomon yeah right, let's do this little film. Like old man gets into dream race, gets it done like clap, clap, clap. How incredible.
Lucy Bartholomew:And then, as we were filming, they were kind of like oh, we are like this is going to be a story that we're going to want to tell. And so, post race, it was kind of like cool, dad, can we just like do an interview really quick? And like can you process this in real time with us while we film it? And he just took it on so well and he's not a person that wants to be front of camera and he had to, yeah, but I think it was so therapeutic and it made him really just like under remember and remind. I think he reminded me as well as like it's not about the finish time, it's not about the buckle, it's not about you know, we got tattoos in the end because he didn't get a buckle, we got tattoos and we got this, uh, big panda and tiny dragon. It's from this book and there's a page in it that says what's more important the journey or the destination? And uh, then it says the company, and I think that that's something that we all needed to be reminded, and I feel like the sport also.
Lucy Bartholomew:This whole thing blew up because he was my dad, everyone knew me, everyone became like was following along on the live stream of the race. You know, there was just people just streaming and screaming on the track to get him to the finish line, and I feel like everyone needed to be reminded. And dad became the spokesperson of like I don't care if you're two minutes over, two hours over. Yeah, you know, it's the believing and the trying and the process and the family and the like, all of that. And you know he says now he wouldn't change a thing and that wasn't like to see him evolve to that place. I'm just like, so proud to be his daughter.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yes, it's such a reminder that it's never about the buckle, it's never about the time on the clock, and I've been there for Golden Hour so many years. My daughter was like weeks old and we brought her up for the Saturday night and then we watched golden hour that year on the on this live stream. So we were cheering for your dad too. We were there with you, watching you come down towards the track. We're like, yeah, and every year that I'm there and I see the clock go past, or even if I'm just watching, I see the clock go past 30 and inevitably there's people that come in. Right, there was once someone, I think a blind runner, came in, you know, a minute after.
Lucy Bartholomew:Following year Yep.
Lisa Danylchuk:And and for me as someone who has, who doesn't care that much about time for myself running and who has, like, had that experience of like being cut from a race when I'm like, but I can do it, but I'm good, and it's 30 seconds, like if I hadn't stopped the time I shoot, right, I just feel like, why, why do we do this to ourselves? Like, why do we say official, unofficial? And so I go on a little soapbox every time with my partner, whoever's there. I'm just like why don't we celebrate these people even more? Why don't they get the golden buckle? Like and I know some races do like a dead last finisher prize pack or something like that, and I think, as a sport, ultra running is better than than so many other sports at celebrating the entire pack, right, the people coming in first, the front of the pack, the middle of the pack, the back of the pack, the people coming in last.
Lisa Danylchuk:But I have such a hard time with that Like, oh, 30 hours and two minutes, sorry. Like I just feel like those people deserve such a dopamine hit finishing, and there's something about I didn't make it Right, and so I think it's true and it's great that you have this visibility and your dad could kind of be this spokesperson for like it's not. It's not about that. Do you have any thoughts about what we do with that? Like, because I get that especially with road races there's a, or even with trail races there's like a time that you have permits on the course and you can't be there forever and you know you don't want people to just be like oh, it's fine, I've got time, I could walk it in from mile 50 to mile a hundred. Like there is something about the structure and the urgency that can motivate, but then there's these two minutes or this one minute and I just feel like those people deserve so much more somehow. Do you have any thoughts about that?
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, I think it's super interesting because I know that this year Western States, the first non-finisher I'm saying this in quotation marks actually gets an entry back in to the next year. So this is a new thing, so that 30 seconds that two minute person can be. My dad was just like rolling in his chair when he heard. He was just like, oh, like, if that was me I just would have loved that opportunity. But I think there is a beauty in having a challenging time limit because I think it really the pride that you feel when you complete it within is immense. I think that calling it like a DNF and putting it in kind of like the same, you go onto the same list as someone who stopped at mile 10, you know, and it's kind of like well, I wouldn't agree with that because that's a very different experience and a very different. So I think it's a really challenging thing.
Lucy Bartholomew:There's a race in Australia that we have called Bogong to Hotham and at the halfway point there's a very strict cutoff and my dad the first time was like 30 seconds over it.
Lucy Bartholomew:They cut him off. He drove around, saw me finish and then he was so determined and he trained so hard to find 30 seconds and you know, the next year he came in a minute under and he kept going and he finished the race and just to see him in his own little race was just really cool. And I think that there's definitely something. And races like western states, it's a historical cutoff because it's the time of the Tevis Cup horse race cutoff, it's not some random time that they're like uh, the volunteer, like the race director, wants to go home, you know, um. So I think there's good to have some structure.
Lucy Bartholomew:I think we could do better in like the wording, and I think that comes from people who find themselves in that position to speak about it in a positive way. You know, when my dad had his experience, that people were like offering him condolences and I was like I'd rather you offer him congratulations, like because he still did the race, he did the course, he finished up at Auburn Track, he ran to Pulsar High, and so I think that just kind of like there's that side of things, but that's, you know it's a really challenging topic that I don't think there's a really easy answer to.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, I've always thought and I don't even know if there are races that do this on ultra signup or other places that track but like a UF instead of a DNF, like an unofficial finish instead of a did not finish, I'm like DNF is not accurate at that point. Right Did not finish does not describe what happened. They finished two minutes over the cutoff, right Totally. I feel like there are ways forward there and I'm hoping we can do it in a way that is inclusive and, yeah, maybe still motivating and challenging, but that people aren't getting condolences once they just ran a hundred miles right that they're still getting great job right, they're getting some of that dopamine and some of that encouragement.
Lisa Danylchuk:It doesn't have to be a a sad party totally, I yeah, so well said there's also something about that vulnerability, right you said of your dad being videoed and interviewing. There's something about sharing hard times that can be difficult but people also really relate to, I think yeah, I think that was one of the.
Lucy Bartholomew:I think it was one of the best things about making the film was that you know the whole events happened. And then he did the interview. Everyone went their separate ways. You know how these races they're huge, they matter, and then suddenly everyone the circus has moved out of town and everyone's moved on to the next race that's coming up.
Lucy Bartholomew:And then the film came out a couple of months later and dad had to sit there and he watched and I think, watching himself and seeing what he looked like and how I was and how the family and everyone was responding and the support that was around him, I think his immediate response was thank goodness the world's moved on, put it to bed, like, let's just like, don't give it air, suffocate that feeling.
Lucy Bartholomew:And instead he had to face it because I made him go to premieres with me. You know, solomon flew him around a little bit to speak before some films and answer questions, and so it kind of you know it just kept opening up the box and that kind of you know what do you call it when you're just like, constantly you have to face it because you're constantly shown it and you just that's your therapy way through it. I think that that was really helpful for him and made him realize that being vulnerable and caring a lot about something is really cool and really beautiful. And I still, you know, a couple of years on, have people write to me and say, like you know, your dad inspired me to start to try that my non-finish is still a finish, that there's so many wins within the process rather than like the outcome. And I'm like dad's not really on social media, doesn't see it, probably doesn't hear it as much as I do, and I'm constantly reminded of the people and the effect he's had on the sport and people's lives.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, I'm a trauma therapist by trade and I just think how much this applies to life and to the way we can be really excited about something or on a Right, and a lot of times when something traumatic happens in our lives, it's like that. It's like, well, this was wrong, this was not part of the plan, this is not supposed to happen. It's not like, oh, this is a hard time, this is a tough hill. I'm going to work my way up it. It really is like a record scratch moment where you're like, oh, like things, things just went south.
Lisa Danylchuk:This was not the plan, and I think that's such a big part of life, right, like everything's great and I'm so excited and I'm doing this, and then it gets really hard, and then sometimes it gets even more challenging and sometimes things go south and like, what do we do with that? And what do we do if we don't have the experience that we had envisioned? Or if it doesn't look that way, we don't have the experience that we had envisioned, or if it doesn't look that way, we don't get the response from other people that we were wanting all of that, right, and so I think that that process that he shares and they share through the film captures that. I think what a lot of people just feel in life of like, oh, this wasn't supposed to happen, and then what do I do? How do I work with it?
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, and I think there's a saying that says you know, in an ultra marathon you live life in a day and you know, I would dare to say we lived a couple of lives out there and aged a couple of years for sure. But yeah, I think that that's so true and also think that you know dad, and that experience was so powerful because of just so many people could relate to different aspects of it. You know, it was kind of like what I found challenging was that I visualized his day. You know, this is I wasn't the athlete in this situation, but I was like, what can I control? And like, all right, so if he's doing well, this is how I'll pace him and crew him and push him through, and if he's on cutoff time, this is how I'll pace him and this is how I'll push him through. And I don't know if he did any visualization around it, but I never really visualized why, in this whole situation, I hadn't visualized and so I had no answer to the real time questions and experience that I was living. And you can see it in the film my response is just to completely unravel and just unleash tears.
Lucy Bartholomew:And you know, because I'm if that was me at least, I'm in control, I I'm the athlete I'm so used to being in that position where it's kind of like, well, this is what I've got myself into. But to watch someone and to be kind of powerless was the most challenging thing. But I think that it's really taught me that going into my races or going into experiences, there's a point of like okay, this is like a bad day, my stomach's not good, okay. But like what if you don't make the finish line? What if you know your story is similar to other people's stories that have happened before and you don't want to think about it. But you should think about it because it's a potential and to be prepared for that gives you a power. I think that I kind of lacked, I felt in that situation, but now I harness moving forward and that's something that I take away from an event that feels like it was at the time super traumatic and emotional. And now I look back and I just see beauty in it and so much strength.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, there's a lot of strength in accepting different outcomes right, and not being so afraid of well, if my stomach's off today and this isn't my race, like that doesn't define me. I think there's a lot in sports, especially when we come up from a young age, of feeling defined by wins or losses and it sounds like this contributed to that for you of just like it's okay, you know, if it goes that way, it goes that way, but I'm going to keep moving forward and problem solving.
Lucy Bartholomew:I think, just yeah, there's that kind of the impermanence of everything is beautiful and it's part of what I love about the sport is that every step is different. In trail running, you can feel on top of the world and then in the pits, from moment to moment, kilometer to kilometer, and you know, one of my greatest strengths is my unrelenting optimism of like, maybe it will get better, maybe it won't, but maybe it will, and I just want to hang in there a little longer and find out. And I think that that's what you know. Dad did that to the very end, and people that sign up for ultra runners, for ultra marathons, are signing up for that. They need to have that in their tool belt.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, I love that. Put it on the back of a shirt. Maybe it will get better. Maybe not For the person running behind you, but maybe not on the front.
Lucy Bartholomew:So after they pass you.
Lisa Danylchuk:You know right. There's all those people you're back and forth with on the trail.
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, I love that.
Lisa Danylchuk:So what is a high moment on the trail? Look and feel like for you, Like when the, when the optimism is coming true. What is that experience like for you?
Lucy Bartholomew:I think it's that feeling of low state that you know we seek, but seeking it kind of takes it away from us. So it's you never know that you're in it until you're out of it. It's where time passes and you know you feel strong and nutrition's blink and pass through a day of many kilometers. Those are the moments that are just like you know, wow, I'm doing something, that I've crafted my body to be able to find such comfort in doing something that is really challenging, in a really challenging place, but I was able to yet transcend all of that. That's the high moments for me.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, I had my daughter a couple of years ago and coming back has been challenging. But there was a moment where I was running and my Garmin just kept beeping off miles in the background and I was like, oh another mile, oh another mile, and I was like that hasn't happened at all, like in those moments where you're so immersed. It was the opposite of like, oh my God, I only went point one. What's happening next? Oh, totally.
Lucy Bartholomew:What does a low look and feel like for you? What happens when you go to that really dark place? Yeah, oh man, it's when I'm doing that watch check and I'm just like you're telling me that was only like 30 seconds between my last watch check, you know, that felt like an hour, I think. When I I mean in those low moments I'm just looking for distractions, I'm looking at, trying to watch, like the numbers tick up or down or I start doing really bad math just to distract myself, and it's always negative. It's always really bad math just to distract myself, and it's always negative. It's always.
Lucy Bartholomew:If I keep this slow, terrible pace up for the next hundred miles, I'm going to be out here till Tuesday morning. You know they're going to be, you know and and um, yeah, I, I'm not someone who is normally a numbers driven person and I know that I'm starting to spiral if I start playing with numbers out there. So it's always my two things that I always remain to tell myself is I have control of my effort and my attitude, and those are my pillars of my crutches when I'm out there. I'm like effort to eat, to move forward, to look after yourself, attitude to just not use those energy exhausting emotions of anger, frustration, sadness, but just a really calm, you know, confident and just kind of trying to protect that energy and use that for moving forward. So I kind of use those in those low moments to try and yank myself out of it.
Lisa Danylchuk:Do you ever go to that Like why, why did I do this, why am I here, why do I do this sport?
Lucy Bartholomew:Oh yeah, I think I do that at least once a week. I'm checking in on my, on my why, which I think is really good. You know, I think we're doing something that's really challenging. It's normal for us to put some question marks and then I feel like you find the answer when you finish that hard run, thinking that you didn't think you could do, and you come out the other side and you're like man, if I didn't think I could do that, but I did it. Imagine what else I'm putting a ceiling on myself for.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yes, yeah, that's the best part where you're like I actually could do that. What else can I do? Totally, I mean, that's how ultra running started for me. It started with a half marathon. I was like I don't think I can do that, like I've been running my whole life just for fun. I never wear a watch. I don't know how far I go, I don't know any stats, but like, oh, 13 miles is far, right. And then, like I'm on my way to the race and I'm like maybe I could do a 50k, maybe, right, like I feel like that that's a form of optimism and sort of hope and reinforcement that can come from that. It's like, well, I, maybe I can do these really hard things and maybe they can even be fun.
Lucy Bartholomew:Like, even though there might be those moments, the lows, like you get through them and they're not the whole story yeah, and I think it's like when I I go to schools and I talk to kids and I'm like, yeah, I run a hundred Ks or a hundred miles, and they have the image and memory of their school cross country that was a week ago where they're red in the face, tasting copper from running so hard, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, it doesn't look like that.
Lucy Bartholomew:Like you know, it's a very slow burn, it's a long time, it's a up and down trails and you're ducking and diving and stopping and peeing and vomiting and no, like re-emerging and coming back and you know, it's kind of. I think that people just like, when you sign up for that half marathon, you finish that and a marathon is not just double that. There is something that goes on in that time, in that space where you step over what you have done before and going into new territory, where it's like, so, not about the fitness and it's not about being fast, it's just about being like, strong minded, confident and strong bodied and strong in your character, I think, and you start to learn about those things. The further you go and you know, the more that you start to care and to try and to yeah, to bring out your best, and to try and show up on a race day is hard.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, In those hard moments it sounds like the optimism and sort of checking your attitude and checking in with yourself is helpful. Are there any other go-to things for you when you're like, okay, this is one of those hard moments that you turn to?
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, I think for me, those moments I generally need to eat something. What I have found is that I am usually on starting to bonk. If I start to get like a poor attitude, it's because I'm probably hangry and I think that's probably the first thing I reach for is put some food in, walk and moan as much as you want, but you might as well walk, moan and eat. So I think that that's probably like my biggest tip to anybody is like sometimes you've just got to get some calories in and it can really flick a switch in you and completely change everything. So that's my, that's probably my number one.
Lisa Danylchuk:A hundred percent. You know, I feel like I learned that in my bones through ultra running too. Where it's like you, this whole world can start being created in your mind, right when you're like everything is awful and this is terrible and this sucks. And only 10 seconds have passed and then I'll put like a fruit punch you know, chump block in my mouth and be like it's fine, everything's great. This is wow To watch that transformation. It's not always that straightforward, but it has been at times and I take that. I take that off the trail and into my life where I'm like everything sucks and I'm like did I eat? And I do this with clients too. I mean, I've been having that awareness with clients for years, where they're coming in and everything sucks. I'm like what have you eaten today? And they stop and they think and they're like coffee.
Lisa Danylchuk:I'm like it's 2 PM go down and get a sandwich and then let's keep talking. Otherwise we're just like wasting your therapy time on your hangriness.
Lucy Bartholomew:Like no, I'm very much related to that. I feel like I learned it in running and I've applied it to my every day as well, even traveling here to France. I was just irritable and so, over the whole process, and then I was just like sometimes it's not even like just eating the right, like something that is like the right thing, you know, it's just like I don't want to eat like a salad, I don't want, I just want a fat slab of chocolate cake, you know. And I got to Singapore airport and I was just over the whole trip, was not even halfway through the whole thing from Australia, and I just sat down at a cafe, had a chai tea and chocolate cake and I was like, okay, I can do this.
Lisa Danylchuk:I got this, I got this, I got this Right and put that intuition, too, of knowing what you need right. It's like, yeah, I need some calories in, but there's also some, just like sniffing it out, that looks good. That's going to help. Let's go with that.
Lucy Bartholomew:Oh yeah, I did a whole lap of the airport, of the airport, sussing out my options, and then lead with my gut no, no, that's the way to go.
Lisa Danylchuk:I mean, you learn that on the trail too, like if you're just eating what you think you should. It's not going to go as well as if you eat like that thing right there. I mean the most random thing. Sometimes I'm just like I don't know why, but that Nutella wrapped in the tortilla with Nutella on it, like that does not talk to me right now, even though I love Nutella. So it's an race. You're just like bring it, give me three more, taking them to go yeah, I know this feeling so are there other lessons that you feel like apply off the trail?
Lisa Danylchuk:I mean, I feel like we probably could just go on with that forever, but there's, you know, life is hard, just like trail running is hard, and we're all here doing our best. Are there things that recently, or just in life in general, you feel like, okay, trail running has really helped me get through other difficulties?
Lucy Bartholomew:I think what ultra running and trail running has really nailed into me and taught me is that kind of the distances and the sport is so challenging and when you look at it as a whole it's very overwhelming. But when you break it up into kind of that bite-sized checkpoint to checkpoint, kilometer to kilometer, climb by climb, you can really start to find little wins along the way and very bite-sized things. And that's something that I take to, yeah, my every day. You know, I'm definitely a list rider and they're like my little checkpoints of my day, the things that I want to achieve, and I feel like they're little wins every time. And even like the travel, it was kind of like all right, we get to Singapore, then we get to London, then we get to Geneva, then we get to Chamonix. You know like we're in these little races, little things, little moments of the race that I feel like I can wrap my head around, because the whole journey in itself feels really challenging.
Lucy Bartholomew:Um, you know, I'm in France to train for the UTMB, which is 170 kilometers, just over a hundred miles, with 10,000 meters, 33,000 feet, whatever, and I run I've been running some sections of the course and I'm just like man, this little bit feels hard. Imagine this in the start or the middle of the end of this race. And I think just remembering that like this is a. It's a small moment in time, it's a small portion of the course, but you know, it's amazing because every time I've come here I felt the same way. And then, come race day, I've stitched it together and there's been those flow moments and those low moments.
Lucy Bartholomew:But it's just incredible what you can do when you're just like I'm just going to lean in, like I'm in it and, like you say, my job for the day is to walk or run or crawl to eat, to drink. You know, like what a gift that my Friday, saturday, potentially Sunday, is. That and this is something that you know running adds to my life. It doesn't take away from it, it's not. I'm not doing it to just to completely, like, destroy myself. I'm doing it to build myself up. And and yeah, I think that just remembering that and running continually teaches me that every training run, every race has taught me that and then it just kind of gives me the ability to apply that to my everyday lived life.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, so much respect for UTMB. I did ETC last year and I was like oh, oh, like that, it's like it's the shortest race, right, I don't remember it's like 15 K or something, not 170. And I was like up, that's like up, up, up, up and then down, down, down, down. I feel like UTMB is just a lot of that.
Lucy Bartholomew:It's just a lot of up and down and so much beauty and so much amazingness, but really hard beauty and so much amazingness, but really hard, like yeah, yeah, it's a super challenging race and it's a real journey. I saw my dad do it in 2014 and he took. He was out there for 43 hours and I was crewing him and felt exhausted. I just couldn't believe that he had. He was running that race and you know, this is my third time returning and I just am in love with the journey around the Mont Blanc.
Lucy Bartholomew:It's just something that is so spectacular, it's beautiful, it's brutal, it breaks you down and builds you up and takes you to these amazing places and shoots you up super quick and then brings you down into these little towns full of very enthusiastic spectators and delicious food. Um, you know, speaking of like having food, like in Courmayeur, which is in Italy, in the race, I always have my crew have a margarita pizza, because I'm like that is my, it just fills any hole or deficit of calories and fuel that I need. And I hike up the next climb like just with a rolled up few slices of pizza and I'm like this is the sport for me, man.
Lisa Danylchuk:Like I'm in the right place. That sounds like heaven. That sounds amazing. Well, we'll be there. My whole family will be there cheering my parents, my daughter, my partner. So we will be cheering for you on the course with so much love. So, oh, it'd be so cool to see you out there.
Lucy Bartholomew:I happen to have a margarita pizza, I'll toss it.
Lisa Danylchuk:So what would you say to somebody listening who's like not a runner, and it's like these people are nuts. This sounds crazy, like maybe there's something else in their life that that is their running. But what would you say to someone who just feels like, oh, this is not even an option. This stuff feels so hard.
Lucy Bartholomew:Any moments or thoughts of inspiration yeah, I think, for the running specific side of things, I think start with where you're at. You know you're hearing us talk about full marathons or 100Ks or 100 miles and that doesn't need to be your starting point and it shouldn't be your starting point. We all started with that run walk. You know, I was the school cross country and then it was kind of like doing a 50K, a 100K and it's been a 12-year journey. So I think people, I think feel a lot of pressure to like leap to that ultra category because the ultra is the new marathon and the marathon is now like you know, it's not even enough for people. So I think that, and just realizing that there's no pace or distance or way that you need to look to do the sport, for it to be the sport for you, you make it look, feel at whatever pace you want it to, and then I think, for just every day, outside of running and goals, I really believe that just because you don't see it doesn't mean that you don't believe that it's not possible.
Lucy Bartholomew:You know, when I was younger and there was no one doing this as a profession, I was just doing what made me happy and brought me a lot of joy. I never ran to become something I wasn't doing it to be noticed by Solomon, and then to make my job and to be where I am, and there's a beauty in that. And I think if you have a goal or a dream or something that you want to achieve, sometimes you might have to be the one to tread the new trail, and that's a really cool thing. It's a really hard thing, but there's nothing more beautiful than trying to pave that path and to be the one that cuts the vines and, you know, mows the grass for other people to follow in your footsteps in the future. So I think taking that road less trodden is always my piece of advice, because if you don't try, you'll never know.
Lisa Danylchuk:I love it. I love it so much, I feel it. Is there anything you want to share that's coming next for you? I know you just started a coffee collaboration.
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah. So I did a collaboration with a coffee company back in Australia called Two Roads. We just had a cold brew can with some cordyceps mushrooms, which is a big favorite of mine. But otherwise I'm here in France for the next weeks before UTMB. I'm very excited I have my brother and his wife coming out to crew me. I've thrown dad the bone of it. Could be cool if he made the trip out as well. We've just got to look after the dog Tani, get her to go on school camp or sleep over with someone else, but it could be really cool. So, yeah, that's kind of like my North Star at the moment is preparing for that race and to put all these things that I've learned and all these motivating experiences that I've had from the people I'm around and make them proud out there.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, I always like to close by asking what brings people hope, but I'm also curious what brings you joy?
Lucy Bartholomew:Oh, I feel like what brings me hope and joy is sport. You know, I think, watching the Tour de France that's on, and seeing the passion that people have and the you know, sometimes it's not always the prettiest, but I just love what sport does and what it brings together. And being in Chamonix, you know, one of the sportiest capitals, and everyone's riding bikes and got climbing ropes and I just feel like it gives me a lot of hope in humanity and the future. Seeing these kids out on the mountains just running up and down the trails with complete, sheer joy and I, yeah, I think that that brings me a lot of joy. So I'd say sport is the answer to me.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yes, I love it. It makes me think about my daughter at the kids race.
Lucy Bartholomew:Yeah, yeah, that brings, me joy.
Lisa Danylchuk:I have the here for the women's race shirt that I will be wearing in French and Germany, but I also want to hear for the kids race shirt because those are so fun.
Lucy Bartholomew:Oh, I didn't know there was one, that's it.
Lisa Danylchuk:No, I want to make one, I want to make one. I know I told her, and Malcolm too, I was like I want to make a hair for the kids race shirt. She's like do it, like, okay, maybe, maybe I can get that together before the race.
Lucy Bartholomew:Oh yeah, Get me I'll, I will be your first order. Oh nice.
Lisa Danylchuk:I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. I'm really looking forward to cheering for you in your race and to sharing this with other folks. If people want to follow you, where's the best place?
Lucy Bartholomew:The best place to follow me would be Instagram. So it's Lucy underscore Bartholomew. I'm on Facebook, but it's pretty much just a copy and paste of Instagram. There's nothing new going on there, but, yeah, I'm always a message away if anyone needs to reach out or wants anything. In particular, I always all is to help anybody out Awesome and you offer coaching too.
Lisa Danylchuk:Are you still doing that?
Lucy Bartholomew:I am. I have a very small amount of people and it's been pretty full for a long time. So I kind of yeah, I wouldn't say I'm open for coaching. Okay.
Lisa Danylchuk:Yeah, good to know. Thanks again, coaching. Okay, yeah, good to know. Thanks again, lucy. Thanks, lisa. Thank you so much for listening. Now I'd really love to hear from you what resonated with you in this episode and what's on your mind and in your heart as we bring this conversation to a close. Email me at info, at how we can healcom, or share your answers and what's been healing for you in the comments on Instagram, where you'll find me at how we can heal. Don't forget to go to how we can healcom to sign up for email updates as well. You'll also find additional trainings, tons of free resources and the full transcript of each and every show.
Lisa Danylchuk:If you love the show, please leave us a review on Apple, spotify, audible or wherever. You're listening to this podcast right now. If you're watching on YouTube, be sure to like and subscribe and keep sharing the shows you love the most with all your friends. Visit howwecanhealcom forward slash podcast to share your thoughts and ideas for the show. I always, always, love hearing from you.
Lisa Danylchuk:Before we wrap up for today, I want to be super clear that this podcast isn't offering prescriptions. It's not advice, nor is it any kind of mental health treatment or diagnosis. Your decisions are in your hands and I encourage you to consult with any healthcare professionals you may need to support you through your unique path of healing. In addition, everyone's opinion here is their own and opinions can change. Guests share their thoughts, not that of the host or sponsors. I'd like to thank our guests today and everyone who helped support this podcast, directly and indirectly. Alex, thanks for taking care of the babe and taking the fur babies out while I record. Last and never least, I'd like to give a special shout out to my big brother, matt, who passed away in 2002. He wrote this music and it makes my heart so very happy to share it with you here.