What If Your Partner Isn’t The Problem—Your Communication Is w/ Katie Rössler EP 190

When long-term love starts to feel like hard work, it’s easy to point fingers. But what if your partner isn’t the problem—your communication is? In this episode, relationship strategist and licensed therapist Katie Rössler unpacks why couples drift into an “invisible divorce,” how respect erodes in micro-moments, and what it really takes to repair years of patterned disconnection.

We explore how to move from “I” goals to “we” goals, translate between different communication styles, and turn everyday friction into understanding. Katie shares practical tools for rebuilding trust, scripts for hard conversations, and the mindset shifts that make lasting love possible.

If you’ve been together a decade or more—or just want to speak your partner’s language again—this one’s for you.

Website: www.katierossler.com
Books: The New Face of Grief https://katierossler.com/the-new-face-of-grief
Giving Birth to Motherhood https://katierossler.com/giving-birth-to-motherhood/
Podcast, Relationship Reset www.katierossler.com/podcast
Free Goal Setting and Visioning Workbook for Couples https://katierossler.com/vision-workbook/

If you are enjoying my work then you can support me by 'buying me a coffee' at this page  
I look forward to connecting with you Anita Mattu https://linktr.ee/AnitaMattu

Transcript

Setting The Tone: Respect And Mirrors

Katie Rössler 1:06

We treat our partners often the way we don't want to be treated, but we think, you know, look at what they're doing to us, and I'm like, oh, if we stop staring at our partner, we start looking in the mirror a little bit more. I think we'd see like sometimes we're not as respectful as we think.

Anita Mattu 1:22

Today's guest is Katie Rössler, a relationship strategist and licensed therapist, and creator of the Rebuild Method, a transformational relationship alignment program for high-achieving international couples. She's the author of two books, host of the Relationship Reset Podcast, and has spoken on stages around the world. Welcome, Kate.

Katie Rössler 1:49

Thank you so much. I'm excited about our talk today.

Anita Mattu 1:53

So am I, and I'm looking forward to learning a thing or two.

Courage Abroad, Loss, And Motherhood

Katie Rössler 1:58

Excellent.

Anita Mattu 2:00

So, with that said, what is one of the most courageous things that you have done?

Katie Rössler 2:06

So, one of the most courageous things I have done is created a life living internationally in Germany. I'm originally from the States. Um, and in that time I've lost my mom. I've lost two of my grandfathers unexpectedly, and my mom was unexpected as well, and had two miscarriages on the journey of trying to have our third child. So having a lot of loss in a time of uncertainty and uh not being rooted in, right? Like when we live in our home country, we feel like we've got our roots and we know our things. Um yeah, all of that happened in a about a four-year process. That I would say is probably one of the most courageous things I've done in my life is just creating a life amidst all of that.

Anita Mattu 2:50

Absolutely, and um I really feel that it's a lot of loss one after the other, and it can't be easy. And like you said, being in a different country as well, trying to rearrange and getting comfortable in your settings. So I can understand why that is so courageous. Thank you very much. It's heartfelt. It really is. Especially like your parents, no matter what, you always want your parents, especially your mom, to be there forever.

Katie Rössler 3:21

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, and and uh I'm a a mom of three, so not having her here through that journey of motherhood is yeah, it's difficult, right? You know, our parents are especially our mothers, are kind of our memory keepers. Oh, you were like that at five. Oh, that's normal. At twelve, you said the same thing, and I don't have that anymore.

Finding Psychology And A Calling

Anita Mattu 3:40

That's been really hard, yeah. Yes, I can only imagine. What took you on your journey of being a relationship strategist and a licensed therapist?

Strategy Over Therapy: Tools For Couples

Pandemic Burnout And Grief Work

Katie Rössler 3:51

Yeah, so I actually went to college for um physics, and my focus was gonna be pre-med. I was gonna be a doctor. I was like all in, and the first semester I realized that the physics people and professors were not my people. I'm a little too social, maybe. I was like, you know, study group, I'll bring the cookies. Like, is it a regular? Are we like setting it on the calendar? And they were all like, this is overwhelming. And I remember going in one of the professors' offices and being like, I have a question. And he like kind of sat back, like, okay, uh, I don't social hour. And it's like, okay. And then I had a general psych class. And what they were talking about, I was like, oh, this has been my whole life as a military kid, constantly adapting and analyzing and paying attention to how people think and act and kind of discerning, is this someone I want to be around or not? And um, and then I knew it was psychology. And pretty quickly after that, I knew it was a therapist. Um, my family had gone through therapy as my parents divorced, and when I was a teenager, and so I I just knew like, actually, I want to do that. Everyone had always told me their problems, anyways, even like teachers and adults, where I was like, why are you telling me this? Like, this feels like boundaries, but uh people felt safe and comfortable. It was a natural gift I always had. And I realized that I I was had a natural knack for asking questions in a deeper way than maybe others would, and reflecting things that I was hearing that weren't exactly being said. And it was like, yeah, this is where I'm supposed to go. So I got my master's in marriage and family therapy. I got licensed in the States, and then we moved here. And when you move to another country and you have a license and education from a different country, it's not always recognized, even though that drives me insane. So it was like, how do I speak to the couples who are gonna know that I'm I'm trained, I've been doing this for over 15 years, I keep my license active, um, and understand that I'm working in a different capacity just because of where I live. So relationship strategists made the most sense. You know, a lot of what I'm doing is more tool building and skill building rather than let's do traditional therapy. No matter what, I've evolved in the way I work with clients, anyways. So it didn't make sense to do call myself a therapist anymore, though that is where my license is. That that is my field of study. But really being able to say, no, you come in and we look at the full strategy of improving a relationship, whether we've got to tear it down and rebuild it, or we start to fix the foundation that has lots of cracks in it and things like that. Um, yeah, so that that's how it went about. And during, you know, during the pandemic, I actually took a bit of a pause. I was pregnant with our third at that time. We finally got pregnant and um I was burnt out from working with couples. As you can imagine, they're all in the house together all the time, and they have a lot of thoughts and feelings about it. And so I was like doing therapy every night with them because I had the kids at home all day with me and going, okay, I need a pause. And, you know, when naturally you're working in a hard field, what do you do? You go to grief work. So I worked with people on grief, and I was like, well, it actually was funny enough, a lighter subject than what some of the couples were going through. And helping an individual go through their hidden grief around loss or changes or adapting to things or identity shifts was easier for me. And that was about a three-year stint where I wrote my two books and then uh I had a client go, Would you work with me and my partner? And I was like, I don't know. So funny, imposter syndrome, you know, comes up in ways that you're like, but I've been doing this forever. I just took a three-year break. And I met with them and I loved it. And I was like, oh, I felt like, you know, that glove that fits perfectly. And I was like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So, which frankly, couples work is a lot of grief work, both individually and together. Um, and so it it all intermixed, and I was like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Safety, Superpower, And Trust

Anita Mattu 8:09

Absolutely love that, and I you know, the fact that everyone's talking to you anyway, so you just naturally is one of those people where people pour out.

Katie Rössler 8:19

Yes. I I always joke with when people like meet me for the first time online or in person, and they if they start crying quite early, which I I don't intend to ever ask a question or say something that does it, but they do, and I go, Oh, you found my superpower. Like I'm able to make people feel so comfortable that they'll release what they've been holding in for so long. It's like my party trick, you know. You're gonna love that. You're gonna cry. I feel like I need to wear like a warning shirt or something. Like, you may cry when talking to me. Just just but uh it it's a it's a gift I welcome and I honor because I understand that not everybody feels safe to talk to people. So yeah.

Building A Shared Life Vision

Anita Mattu 9:00

And that's the key word here, feeling safe. Yeah, I love that because absolutely people would not say anything unless they did feel safe with you. Right. That's the thing. So many people go to counseling, therapists, whatever they do, and they walk away with nothing has changed, but really what you're doing really is all them gifts. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

Katie Rössler 9:25

Yeah.

Anita Mattu 9:26

So how can couples create a life vision together even in challenging times?

Katie Rössler 9:34

Yeah, great question. I've walked this many times. Um, you know, one thing when I when I meet with a couple that are going through life challenges, whether it's aging parents, um, their children's behavior, mental health issues, or just that parenthood wasn't what they thought it would be, or they're in that phase of life where they're kind of discerning, am I happy or not? Should I stay or should I go? I usually sit down and just have them really picture a vision for themselves of how they want life to look individually. And we're not always comfortable with that because our whole world tends to be other people and work and this and that. But to sit down and say, if you had a choice in it all, what would you be doing with your day? What, what, what do you hope for? What do you want retirement to look like? Like just allowing them to just dream again alone. And once you start to do that, you know, often I'll hear, well, I do see my partner there, but I don't know in what capacity. And I'm like, that's okay. That that's fine. You know, we're just gonna start with you getting to get out of survival mode and burnout and just kind of, and sometimes I hear, I can't picture anything because I'm so like I feel like I'm drowning, I'm so swamped. Like I can't picture getting out of this ever. And so it's usually then we go, okay, what are the things that you feel weighed down by? And if we remove those, what do you think you would do at that time and that energy? So once I have that, then I talk to the couple about often we create goals for ourselves, like the I goal. I will do this, I want to achieve this. And in most cultures, we're not taught the we goal, which is we will come together and we want to achieve this, we want to see this. Often as we want to have a house and kids, great. Okay, what happens after that, right? Like there's a there's many decades after that. So what do we want to do after that? Um, and helping them to understand that we goals can integrate the I goal. You know, if we want to have strong and exciting careers, and it might mean that one has one, like has precedence over the other's career at times, right? Especially with traveling.

Anita Mattu 11:52

Yes.

“We” Goals, Not Just “I” Goals

Speak Your Partner’s Language

Katie Rössler 11:52

Then it's like, how do we map that out? So it's with intention versus what just shows up. And as soon as you start to create weakles, it makes you think differently. But there is the hyper-independent individual in the couple, if not both, that's like, this is uncomfortable. I feel like I'm having to give up a part of myself. And it isn't that. It's opening up a whole new level of who you are and your ability to grow with someone. And you most of the time we've already had we goals and we just didn't understand them and we didn't see them. Um, and I love to help couples reevaluate if like where they are is really what makes them happy. Sometimes we just went with the flow. Again, you know, well, the job opportunity was there and the pay was right, and we live in a place we're actually not happy in, and well, you know, we inherited this house or like this was the only thing available. And it's like, okay, but if you would change that in the next three to five years, what would that look like? So getting out of the mindset of it will always be this way. We're stuck, this is just a horrible season, and going into what could shift right now? And it's usually not big things, it's we could laugh more together. We could enjoy the quality time versus be on our phones or watching a show from separate sides of the couch. Um, but it's like we we could bring fun back into things. And those types of things change our lives dramatically when we start to have fun together with our partner. It's like life just feels a bit lighter. We're like silly with each other again. And so those are the types of visioning and goals I like to help couples create when they're in the thick of it. Because yes, I understand creating that big goal feels like we'll never get there, but I want you dreaming because eventually you'll get there. And I also want you being realistic about what goals make sense right now. And half the battle is changing the energy of feeling stuck, of feeling trapped, of feeling like they, you know, I don't even know if I like we're roommates. I don't even know if I want to bring back the romance. It's like, well, hold on. What if we just build the friendship again? You know, you you goof around with your best friend, right? Like you, and then you share a bit vulnerably about things you're going through and thoughts you have. And one of one of the big communication techniques that I work with couples on, because I work with bicultural couples. There's usually two languages, right? One that one has one mother tongue, the other has the other. And when we talk about goals and visioning, you'll see their other language they speak. Is one more of a thinker, is one more of a feeler, is one more introvert, is one more extrovert, right? These are all different languages as well from our personalities and temperaments. So, what I like to teach couples is how to better understand your partner's temperament and personality, as well as culture, right? So that you understand how to speak their language. Because if I keep speaking to you anita and being like, you know, don't you get it? Don't you get this is this, I'm speaking to myself the way I would understand this. And you're like, no, I I'm it's a bit like speaking Chinese to someone who speaks French. And if I yell it louder, if I say it stronger, if I whatever way I form it, it is still Chinese. And you understand French. But if I learn French, it doesn't change the that I speak Chinese. I just learn how to speak in a way you understand. And that is how relationships work. We often speak to our partner about our vision, our goals, what we want, how we receive the language, how we receive the information, instead of going, ah, my partner, they're not a visionary like me, and change is uncomfortable. So I have to plant seeds and I have to talk about things less feeling, and my gut tells me, and more, let's look at the numbers. How might this work? If we talk about something that could happen in two years versus next month, right? Like, how do we start to have those conversations? Then all of a sudden, our partner is way more receptive to some of the goals that we have. And we feel more confident as well in in where the relationship is going with those goals.

Anita Mattu 16:17

Absolutely. And I love everything you've just said there, especially by the language. If we don't understand, like you said, and I have witnessed this being Asian, some people start creating a louder voice, and you know, like you said, it makes no difference. Uh I I see it and hear it all the time. It's not we can't hear, we just don't understand what you're saying.

Katie Rössler 16:43

And it's the same in romantic relationships. You don't get what I'm saying, so I'm gonna yell it louder. Well, that doesn't help.

Anita Mattu 16:51

Yes, absolutely. So why do many people, and I say this from even some of my friends, why do many people feel so unfilled in their relationships? Even when they've done all the work on themselves, they still feel stuck and they're still in the relationship.

Why Growth Still Feels Unfulfilled

Katie Rössler 17:12

Yeah. So often when we've done the work on ourselves, we didn't do the work in the relationship too. Right? Our personal growth journey is great, but half the time we don't bring our partner along for the ride, or they don't want to. They're like, uh, the, you know, whatever this journey is, that's yours. And bring being able to come together and say, you know, hey, I feel like I've grown in certain ways and I've noticed, you know, these ways don't interest you, but I'd really like for us to find some common ground in this growth and share it with them. Be more of a lighthouse than a tugboat to your growth experience. Instead of being like, well, you should eat better and you should do this, be like, I am feeling, I have so much energy. I'm feeling a lot lighter. I'm feeling like, you know, my mind is a bit clearer. And I really attribute it to some of the changes I've made with my food. You're just planting seeds, right? Our partner's journey doesn't have to be side by side with us. So if you feel like you've done a lot of that personal growth and your partner hasn't, or their personal growth's been in a different direction, then have a conversation about like, hey, do what do we feel like we have similar now? What are our interests that are similar? What are the things that we both want to do? What's our bucket list item still? Right. Get into the like, what is what brings us together? And in that, you can start to have those like vision and goal talks of like, well, where do we want this to go? What do we want this to look like? And if you have that type of partner who's like, I'm happy how things are. I often joke, one partner usually is the one who has the king-sized bed at the Hilton and filet mignon every night, and the other one sleeping on the floor with, you know, like vegetables or something, right? Like just something that's like, it's not as amazing. And when we say, I want to sit, I want to lay next to you on the king-sized bed and I want filet mignon too, it's not always comfortable. Or, hey, there might be some nights where you sleep on the floor and I get to have the filet mignon and you have the vegetables, right? And being able to say this, this is this is a give and take. Often women are conditioned to be the ones who are more adaptable, more flexible, go with the flow. And there is a season of our lives that that starts to shift us. Very normal. So if you're like in your 40s and 50s and you're like, I'm asked, I'm wondering if I should stay or go, will he ever change or will they ever change? What is this? This is normal. It's an invitation for difficult conversations. It's absolutely normal. And the more we can not shy away from these difficult conversations and again speak the language of our partner as we have these difficult conversations, we're going to see progress be made. But we built kind of this house to look a certain way in our relationship. And now we want it to be different. And we're doing the personal work on ourselves, but that doesn't mean we're doing the personal work on the relationship. And once you start doing that, it feels uncomfortable. It's like, you know, it's like pulling teeth sometimes. I grew up in a southern area of the United States. So we always say, like, it's like, you know, molasses, walking through molasses, you're like like thick honey, you know, you're like, oh, I will never get through this. It will be like that. Yeah, because somebody had that king size bed and filet mignon. And you're having to go, no, I don't want this to be like this anymore. There will be tantrums, there'll be adult tantrums, they will not like it. That's okay. It doesn't mean we did any wrong. Our partner's disappointment or uncomfortability isn't ours to fix. If anything, it's to help them grow even more to be able to withstand and build their emotional intelligence as well as us deal with our own disappointments and frustrations. And I for my podcast, I got to interview Dr. Catherine Ford, and she was really wonderful about talking about can people really change?

Anita Mattu 21:12

Yes.

Praising Sprouts Of Change

Katie Rössler 21:13

And she said, often people do change. And imagine it's like we plant a little seed, and we all know, like a little tomato seed, right? You see the little sprout comes up. She says, What happens is the little sprout of change comes and you stomp on it because it's not big enough and exactly what you wanted. But you don't realize it needs time to get there. It needs step-by-step more fertilizing, more like, yes, awesome, yes, that's it. Yes, thank you. That's it. And focusing on that, not well, you didn't say that right. I asked you to do that differently. Again, you forgot this. And then when we hyper focus on that, then the change can never happen. We actually sabotage our partners' change when we only focus on what they do wrong. Instead of, this is the change I want to see. Once we have that hard conversation, hey, this is not working for me. Here's what I'd like to see change. When they start to make shifts, you praise the heck out of. Grateful, thank you. I acknowledge, I see it. This is amazing. And when they do something you don't like, you don't then go over to that, because that's just going, you're failing, you're failing, you're failing. Well, why am I, Katie, gonna ever try if you constantly just tell me I'm failing? Because if I put any ounce of effort towards this movement, I'm just gonna be told all the other ways I'm failing. No, I'm gonna like we treat our partners often the way we don't want to be treated, but we think, you know, look at what they're doing to us. And I'm like, oh, if we stopped staring at our partner and we start looking in the mirror a little bit more, I think we'd see like sometimes we're not as respectful as we think. That's one of the questions I ask couples is on a scale of 10, one to 10, what's the level of respect you have for your partner? And most of the time it's like, oh, it's like a nine or a 10. And I'm like, okay. Do you interrupt them? Do you try to fix the things they do? Do you um yell at them, roll your eyes at them, huff? Do you ghost them? Do you ice them over? They're all like, oh, and I go, Well, those are signs of disrespect. So it's one thing to say I respect my partner, and it's another thing to treat them with disrespect. But it's all the same. It's all about how you actually respect your partner or not. If we could get out of our own ways of going, like, hey, I actually want to treat my partner with respect because I want to be treated with respect. And whether they can do it or not back, I'm going to do this because it should be a 10, hopefully, right? Like it should be a nine or a ten. Not just because I think it, but because I live it.

Anita Mattu 23:49

Absolutely love that. And this is why I guess having those difficult um conversations really does make the relationship work. Working together. Yes, absolutely. Yes, I really understand that. So, how can couples repair their relationships when they have tried everything else? Hmm.

Repair Takes Time, Not Three Sessions

Katie Rössler 24:14

I'm always interested when couples say they've tried everything else. I'm always like, What? What have you done? Well, we did three couple sessions. Hmm, okay. Or we wrote read a book or we listened to a podcast. Um, you know, when couples feel like they've put a lot of effort in, I often say, How many years did it take you to get where you are? And of course, there's like, oh, like him and on. So it's it's in the micro moments. It's not usually major things that happen that create the invisible divorce. It's it's little things. It's the detachment, it's the inability to really be present with our partner because we're texting our friend or something at work, or you know, the all these things. And the more the divide happens, which usually takes months and years, yeah, it's not just one day one way and the other day another, then it's gonna take time to change habits. It's gonna take time to really address what the problems actually are. And if you have years of resentment, I'm sorry, three sessions with anyone, a coach, a counselor, a therapist, like wonderful if they can get you there. But resentment, it's not that you have to unpack every single thing that the resentment holds, but resentment is there because your anger, your partner gave themselves permission to do something you wish you could give yourself permission to, to not pay pay attention to the work that needs to be done, to rest instead of get up and help, to not have to take care of the kids as much, right? Like there's so many things that resentment is really speaking to us. That's so hard to get to in three sessions. We just have so much anger at our partner that it's like, I don't want to point the finger at me, I want to point the finger at them. It's so much easier. So this is the piece where you can't just expect what took years to just be fixed quite fast. And it doesn't it won't take years in in coaching or therapy either. That's the other thing, is often I say, give me six months. At the worst, if you're like, I don't know, give me four. But really at the six-month mark, if you're doing the work as intentionally as you would if you wanted to get a pay raise or that new job, if you give me that type of focus, then in four months you absolutely will see a different relationship. And in six months you'll be like crying that this is even what it could be. We don't have the ability often to stay that focused on a relationship where we think this should be easy. This shouldn't be so hard. They should just get me. They've known me forever. Why should I have to work so hard? I work all day and I don't want to come home and work some more. Okay, great. Well, then go marry yourself. You're not, you know, not legal, I don't think, anywhere, but you know, great, okay. Then go be alone because you you're in partnership with your partner, not you. And because of that, it will always take work. But the work starts to become enjoyable, you know, like those like work that we have in our day that was like, oh, I love that. You know, it's like it's fun. It starts to become enjoyable when you see the progress. And when the bumps happen, you start to recognize, oh, these are normal. This is natural in a relationship, all relationships. And we know how to get back on track a lot faster. And you can have, you know, 10 arguments in a two-hour period, but repair so quick each time that you're like, oh, not even a blip on the screen. Because you learn how to to not fix it, but to to to heal quicker from it. You don't hold on to the resentment from the past that builds up with it.

Be The Partner You Want To Be

Anita Mattu 28:01

Yeah, absolutely love that. And it's absolutely I love you the way you said put the percentage that you would in your job or you know, in other things. People just don't. They come home, they're tired, they take it for granted almost. Yes. The relationship is there.

Boundaries, Pushback, And Endurance

Katie Rössler 28:19

Yeah. That that happens very often the couples I work with, where both of them feel taken for granted. And because they feel so taken for granted, they don't realize how they're taking their partner for granted, right? Again, we don't want to look in the mirror and go, I'm being disrespectful or I'm taking them for granted. We just see how they are. And I say, chicken or egg, who cares? You gotta do the work. Like at some point, somebody starts. And for me, one of the biggest things, and and one of my mentors taught me this was you have to look in the mirror and say, I am being the person I would want to be in my ideal relationship. You can't wait for your partner to be that. So if I want to be more calm, less reactive, I have to work on my nervous system. I have to work on my tools and skills. So that if it doesn't work, I can walk away and be like, no, I really was the type of partner I would want to be. And when we do that work, whomever comes next, we're able to discern a lot better. Are you going to be a fit or not? But that goes back to if you're going to do that personal work, be the person you want to be in that ideal relationship. Not occasionally, not when it feels good, but work on being that as much as you can daily. Have the affirmation, you know, up on your mirror, have a little note on your phone that dings at lunchtime or something to remind you you're working towards this goal of working on you. And there is no way in a system, if you if you think about like the old watches with the cogs, right? And you've got them all spinning in a certain way. And the moment you want to turn one the opposite way, there's pushback. It takes more force, right? We're gonna go back to physics. It takes more energy to get it to turn the opposite way, and everything's gonna push against it because that goes against the flow of what was working. King size bed of the Hilton. Why are we gonna have to do this differently? But as soon as you start to make that change, everything else has to change. But stay consistent with it. The moment you go back to how it was, you're going back into the flow of the opposite way you want to be. So think about that. When you start to make changes in your relationship, when you start to become the person you ideally want to be, which may have clear boundaries, speak their truth in honest and loving ways, right? Then you're going to have pushback. It doesn't mean you did something wrong. It will exhaust you. You will be angry, you will be frustrated, have a good support team around you, maybe a coach or therapist to go, like, I know you've got this, because as soon as everything starts to change in the direction that you're hoping it will go, it's magical. But often we don't have the endurance for that. And we we have to. We're human beings, right? Change is difficult for most of us and uncomfortable. And when you're in a relationship with someone, we get into flows. I think of like an interstate highway. We're all going one way. We're all going one way. And you're like, no, actually, I want to take a detour and try a new interstate. And it's like, what? Oh. So you have to work towards going, no, let's turn off here. No, let's try this. It's okay. And again, you have to be that lighthouse and not the tugboat. You just have to say, I see this helping us. I see this is really changing my life. I'd love for you to be a part of it. Come be with me in this. I'd love that. And they go, no, I don't want to. I'm not interested. Yeah, okay. Then the hard conversations become I don't find it attractive that you don't want to work on yourself. I don't find it attractive that instead of like going and learning something new, you just want to sit and watch television every night. Like you don't even want to open a book or go meet new people. And for me, that's creating more of a wall between us. And that's not going, you're feeling you're wrong. That's saying, like, I, Katie, don't find this attractive. And that's causing issues between us and my desire to be intimate with you or vulnerable with you or trust you. Maybe you've got kids involved too, right? Like I feel like you're modeling things that we've both said we don't want for our kids. Often our partners are burnout and depressed. And it is very hard to hear something like that, but it doesn't mean we're wrong. So again, if your partner starts to throw a bit of a tantrum or is very hurt by it, understand that hurt. I honor that this is hard to hear. It would be hard for me to hear. And they might come back. Well, I don't find it attractive that you I hear you. Maybe you don't find it attractive. But I'm just sharing with you how I'm being affected. The more we can detach from the like, let's get into the fight and the cycles and just really speak our truth that this is this is what I'm I want and this is what I need. Here are my expectations. Are they realistic or not? And you know, this is what I hope for our relationship, then the the you know, the ideal is our partner starts moving towards us faster than slower. But again, it might take planting lots of seeds.

Anita Mattu 33:28

Absolutely. And I think you slightly touched on my next question. When does one know whether to stay or to leave?

Stay Or Leave: Consequences And Clarity

Katie Rössler 33:37

Great question. So that that is a very difficult question, and it's person to person, right? You know, whatever decision we make, there has consequences with it. And you have to decide do the consequences outweigh the pain of staying? Am I in so much pain and discomfort and unhappiness staying here that I am willing to deal with the legal fight, the you know, uncertainty of where I will live, whatever it might be, right? Like I will, I will deal with those consequences. And if you can say that, then I think you're you've you've solved it for yourself. If you have that vision for the future and your partner is really not there and you don't even see in any shape or form, then you go back again. Am I prepared for the consequences that will come from this? If there are kids involved, it's recognizing if I stay and we continue the relationship as it is, this is modeling for our children. This people often stay for the kids. That can be really detrimental for to them, especially if there's disrespect in the home, especially if there's like if you guys don't even talk to each other often, all that energy kids and teenagers feel, they will either start acting out, they will start having mental health issues, they will start having digestion issues, like it will come out in them in like somatic ways. So it's being able to go, okay, is this worth it? And are are we both on the same page that we want to try to fix this? Or is it really just somebody tugboating and going, like, I can't do this anymore. This is not working. And the consequence is even that even the consequence of my child or children struggling through this, I will get them support. We will, we will talk honestly and openly about this, right? Like just being able to have that, then you you put the tools in place. Um, I I was talking with a coach the other day who specifically helps women who've decided to leave, like to go through that process because you know, men or women, they they need support. You don't, it there's a lot of grief, even if you want to leave. And people don't realize that. There is a whole life that you created and the way you expected it to go. And when it doesn't, and you finally leave it, it's like your body and mind goes like, Oh, I can finally release all this stuff I've been holding. And so if you don't have someone to support you in that grief work, it can throw you off. And that's when you go and maybe sleep with somebody you wouldn't have slept with, or start going down the train of alcohol every night, or trying different, you know, different things, shopaholic, workaholic, because you want to fill the void. If you're not aware that that's going to come, that's normal part of the process, even if you wanted to leave. So it's like having that support is so going to be key. And I am of the belief that there really is no wrong decision. It's just what consequences you're willing to deal with. And knowing you're not in a vacuum, it's going to affect other people. And they're going to let you know their thoughts and feelings. And you practice your statements. I'm sorry, I'm not really here to listen to how this is affecting you. Call me when you're done. Here's the name of a therapist, right? Here's who I work with. Go go talk to them. But practice your boundary statements because you'll have to use them on repeat.

Anita Mattu 36:56

Absolutely wonderful. Absolutely. Each word you've said, absolutely fantastic. And it's so true. If people just listen to themselves, listen to that, and I love the fact it's a responsibility, boundaries and to the consequences.

Katie Rössler 37:15

Yeah, right. You know, going back to if I'm not being the person that I want to be in my ideal relationship, I will always kind of question my making the right decision. Oh, maybe I could have done something more or better. If you go back to, hey, no, I I spoke my truth, I was the loving as I wanted to be, or I was as kind or as helpful or generous uh without being walked all over, holding firm to my boundaries, and it still didn't go anywhere. Okay, then I can walk away and go, no, that just didn't work.

Anita Mattu 37:47

Absolutely. Yes. So you are the author of the new face of grief and giving birth to motherhood. Tell me about your books, Kate.

Hidden Grief And Birth Stories

Katie Rössler 37:57

Yeah, so the new face of grief is about hidden grief. We often think about grief and death, but grief happens throughout all of life. Any transition and change we've gone to gone through, we experience grief. There's this letting go of the old and accepting how it is now. And yes, that comes with death as well. So the book walks you through what all can cause grief and how we can better understand that grief is a very normal, natural part of life. Most of us run from it. Don't talk about it. Oh, they're grieving. Oh, maybe I'll bring them a casserole. No, like, how do I actually sit with someone in grief? How do I sit with my grief instead of finding it so uncomfortable? So it's like really a good emotional intelligence lesson in the experience that we will all go through and we probably have already been through multiple times in our lives. And then the second book, Giving Birth to Motherhood, I co-wrote with Amy McCracken. And we wanted to write a book that taught women who've had traumatic or difficult birth experiences how to write their birth story in a therapeutic way. Because our children need to have a story of how they came into this world that doesn't automatically make their parent cry or that isn't told because of the trauma that went through. So it walks you through the path of being able to see holistically the experience you went through and figure out how to write the story in a way that you feel a sense of, okay, this occurred and I see healing from it. And I can talk to my child at whatever age about what their birth experience was like in an age-appropriate way, of course.

Anita Mattu 39:38

Absolutely. That's fantastic. So for all the listeners, the links will be in the show notes. Do please go ahead and get the books if that is for you. Thank you. And you are the host of the podcast Relationship Reset. Love the name. Thank you. Tell me more about it, Kate.

Katie Rössler 39:59

Yeah, so this is specifically for couples who've been together for over 10 years. Usually very goal-driven couples listen to this because I always give homework at the end. A little bit, you know, two to three things to think about, a journal assignment, a conversation to have, because that's how I work. Uh, all of my clients always say, God, I love it. At the end, I always know exactly what I'm supposed to do next. Because, like, here's your tool. Use it this week, right? But that's how I approach the podcast. And we talk about things like the invisible divorce and misconceptions we have. And I have different experts come on too that talk about, you know, anxious and avoidant attachment or like change, like I mentioned earlier. Can people really change, helping them better understand conversations around sex? Because the longer we're together for some reason we don't talk about these things. And it's like maybe we should. So, how to get more comfortable with that? So it really touches on a variety of issues that couples who've been together longer are experiencing.

Relationship Reset: Tools And Homework

Anita Mattu 40:53

That's fantastic. And the links will be in the show notes for your podcast as well. So please do listen in, listeners. Thank you very much. My pleasure. So if there was one key takeaway you want every listener to walk away with today, what would that be?

Katie Rössler 41:13

Ooh, a great takeaway is just the reminder of how important it is for us to have difficult conversations and to stay curious, right? To ask questions rather than assume. Don't don't jump on our partner immediately when they say something. Make sure we really understand what they're saying and ask the questions that are hard. You know, this past weekend my husband and I had a discussion about like, honey, what are your expectations when your your parents start to age and maybe need care? What have you already thought about? Well, you know, of course he says I haven't thought about it, but you know, if I think about it right now, I hear some things. And it's like, those are difficult conversations to have, but they will impact our marriage. So we need to be having them.

Anita Mattu 41:55

Absolutely.

Katie Rössler 41:56

Or where do we want to retire? And what will that look like? It's not just always difficult conversations in the fact of how you spoke to me, I didn't like, or I don't trust you. Sometimes it's the conversations about life events that we don't want to talk about because they're uncomfortable. But help us to feel more connected when we have a plan together. So that would be, I would say, get curious and ask the difficult questions and have those difficult conversations.

Anita Mattu 42:22

That's absolutely fantastic. And thank you for sharing that. So where can the listeners find you online, Katie?

One Takeaway: Hard Questions, Curious Hearts

Katie Rössler 42:30

Yeah, so my website, katyrustler.com, is a great way. I'm very active on Instagram, which is just Katie.rustler or on LinkedIn, same place, Katie Rustler. Um, but the podcast is a great way to kind of learn from me on a regular basis and to get some tools and resources for your relationship. And I'd love to provide for your listeners a guide on how to create goals and a vision together. Um, it's a great workbook, and it comes with an audio series for like if you are more of the thinker versus the feeler, or one of you is a is a number person, the Excel spreadsheet, and the other one's my gut tells me we should do this. I'm just so excited about this. And so, how to navigate those differences.

Anita Mattu 43:11

Absolutely. And all the links will be in the show notes, though. Please do go ahead and take advantage of the free gift Katie's giving you all. Thank you for sharing your insightful wisdom and knowledge with us today. And by doing so, I know you have helped so many others make a difference. I'd really like to acknowledge you for that, Katie Rössler.

Katie Rössler 43:32

Thank you so much. I really appreciate our conversation and getting a chance to share this with others.

Anita Mattu 43:38

Thank you so much. With that said, we are all about Create the Courage to Be Fearless podcast. What is your definition of courage?

Katie Rössler 43:47

Well, my definition of courage is that no matter what fear or anxiety or worry or belief systems that want to hold us back occur, that we still continue to step forward and face those mountains each day.