The Wild Self: How Nature Helps You Reset, Regulate & Come Back to Life | Emma Pruen EP 214

Your calendar is full, your mind is busy, and yet something still feels missing.

In this deeply grounding conversation, Emma Pruen, author of Wild Self and shamanic practitioner, explores how reconnecting with nature can help us regulate the nervous system, process grief, access intuition, and return to a more authentic way of living.

We begin with Emma’s extraordinary story of carrying dissident letters into occupied Tibet, and the real-world courage it demanded. From there, we explore the quieter courage required in everyday life: slowing down, stepping outside, and creating tiny moments of presence that help you feel more alive.

Emma shares simple micro nature practices you can do in under two minutes, powerful tools for calming stress, improving decision-making, and building a deeper sense of belonging on the earth. We also talk honestly about grief, sound baths, ritual spaces, staying safe in unfamiliar workshops, and why rewilding and self-development should include men as much as women.

If you’ve been feeling burnt out, disconnected, or emotionally flat, this episode offers practical, no-cost ways to reset and reconnect.

In this episode, we explore:

• How nature supports nervous system regulation
• Tiny daily practices to reduce stress and overwhelm
• Reconnecting with intuition through stillness
• Nature as support for grief and emotional healing
• Courage, authenticity, and the path back to self
• Safe ways to explore rituals, workshops, and healing spaces

Press play for a calming, practical conversation on nature connection, wellbeing, and coming back to life.

If this episode resonates, please subscribe, share it with someone who needs a reset, and leave a review to help more people discover the show.

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I look forward to connecting with you Anita Mattu https://linktr.ee/AnitaMattu

Transcript

Welcome And Childhood Wonder

Emma Pruen 1:06

We have that that little person we were when we were born that did have incredible wonder at the natural world and would stop and look at the reflection in a puddle or pick up a leaf or find a favourite stone. And we've had all of that sort of, you know, we've been told to put it back or it's dirty or don't want it in the house or or you know had our mind focused on other things about who we should be and how we should behave and what we should do and we get more and more disconnected from our own unique natures.

Courage, Morality, And Tibet

Anita Mattu 1:34

Today's guest is Emma Pruin, the author of Wild Self, a book about connecting to our authentic nature. Welcome, Emma. For having me, Anita. So that all sounds interesting. I'm really excited about this conversation and to learn a thing or two. But let's go back to what is one of the most courageous things that you have done?

Emma Pruen 2:00

Honestly, the list is so long. I mean, some might say having a barbecue with the grandson of a cannibal on a beach in Fiji was pretty courageous. But most I think the one that I'm proudest of was um I was in I went to I was going to Tibet and I went to the office of Tibet in Kathmandu to ask how they felt about me giving money to the Chinese because it's occupied. And they said, no, please go in because we'd like you to tell people about Tibet and the situation when you come out. So I agreed to that. And then they said, would you take some letters? And here's the thing, I think about courage. Sometimes it's a very close friend to naive, because I said, Yeah, sure. And I went in and I started distributing letters, which I came to realize were completely illegal, dissident. And um one of the people that I'd given it to was so terrified of the Chinese state that they gave it back to our tour guide and said, we don't want this dissident material. And then we were all questioned and uh it was very severe. And I mean, the only thing that I the only thing that got me out of it was that I hadn't actually been to Dharamsala yet, where the Dalai Lama lives, and because the letter came from him, I was off the hook. But the poor people that had come into come into Tibet via Dharamsala were given very, very long questioning. So that's probably the bravest, but also the most foolish. But I felt really happy to have done it.

Anita Mattu 3:32

I mean, the thing is you just don't know, do you? And the thing is you kind of trust people that it's gonna be legal.

Emma Pruen 3:39

Well, kind of but but the occupation of Tibet I don't think is legal, so where do you draw the line? I mean it was moral to send a letter from the Tibetan from the Tibetan leader to their people. So I was guided by my own morality, I think, there. Just as well, you never got arrested or anything like that.

Anita Mattu 4:00

Just as well. So tell me a bit about before we go into your book, about wild self and reconnecting to authentic nature. So let's just unpack that a little bit. What is that about first?

Emma Pruen 4:16

Well, once upon a time, we we were all living outdoors much more. You know, we had tiny houses that were all packed in together. We kind of had to live on the streets, but our work was was mostly kind of growing our own vegetables. I'm talking, you know, hundreds of years ago, pre-industrial revolution. And since the Industrial Revolution and then going to jobs every day, we've got more and more and more disconnected. And then in the last 20 years, with the sort of rise of computers, that's sort of only exacerbated. So even when we are outside, we're not looking up and not looking at the sky or listening to the birds, because we've got our headphones in and probably listening to a podcast and um, you know, or looking at our phones. And there's this huge malaise, and I particularly see it among young people. I have I have young adult children, and I see it among their peer group a huge amount, but also in the clients in their sort of fifties, women of sort of my age and art, who are really feeling like something's missing and feeling depressed but not quite knowing it's depressed, because it's not because of some necessarily major incident. And I really believe it's this disconnection from nature, from the bigger world that's that's um really exacerbating amongst all the other craziness in the world. And whilst we can't do anything about what's going on in America or for instance, what we can do is, you know, how we look after ourselves and what we what we do. So that's that's sort of I think we've become domesticated, like a sort of wolf becoming a dog, and we need to find our inner wolf again.

Anita Mattu 5:57

I love that. I love that an analogy, and it is all about a wild self. And I can totally see how, you know, like you said, domesticated like household pets, as you just mentioned. And it's having that courage to actually be yourself again, isn't it?

Why We Feel Disconnected

Emma Pruen 6:16

I mean, I think that is such a core issue, isn't it? Because we we have that that little person we were when we were born that did have incredible wonder at the natural world and would stop and look at the reflection in a puddle or pick up a leaf or find a favourite stone. And we've had all of that sort of, you know, we've been told to put it back or it's dirty or don't want it in the house, or or you know, had our mind focused on other things about who we should be and how we should behave and what we should do, and we get more and more disconnected from our own unique natures. And I think this path of self-development that we're on is is about just reconnecting to who that person is inside and and letting him or her out and you know, just to be the gift that they were brought to the world to be.

Anita Mattu 7:03

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more because here's the thing it's that going back to who we were. It's never going out, it's coming back into ourselves. And that's the biggest thing, and more and more I'm having conversations about this, more and more people are experiencing, yeah, let's go back in. So that's really absolutely what life is becoming now. We have got lost. I mean, so much goes on like you like you know, when you started the conversation about your experience in Tibet. So yes. So in Wild Self, you're doc you documented three hundred and fifty nature experiences in Britain. For someone who is completely burnt out and can't imagine a week-long retreat. What is one micro wild practice they can do to reset their nervous system?

Emma Pruen 8:01

That's a lovely question. I think something as simple as when we step outside of our front door, just taking a moment before we rush off to the car, the train, wherever it is we're going. Just to stop, feel our feet on the ground, take a deep breath in, look at the sky, look around us for anything, you know, whether it's a tree or, you know, looking at the ground, greeting the sky, greeting the ground. I mean, I'm kind of very animist, I'm a shamanic practitioner, so I do believe that all of this is alive. But if that's a stretch too far, you could listen out for bird song and just listen through the sounds of traffic or whatever else it is, to try and reconnect to the sound of a bird, and then just sort of inwardly greeting that bird. I'd be saying hello bird. Or if I knew the name of it, you know, hello Robin. Um and then just yeah, coming back, another breath, and then going off into the day. And just that, you know, a few times a day, a couple of moments of pause. It's sort of mindfulness in nature, if you like, but micro-mindfulness in nature, I think can really help. Just remind us who we are and that we are humans living on earth and not, you know, just in our head.

Anita Mattu 9:21

And I think that's the biggest thing, isn't it? Look around. We never do anymore. Like for one, we hardly walk anywhere, let's be honest. You know, I personally do. And I love walking in nature and I like to think, oh yeah, look at that tree today. You know, the walking in the evening where the sun, you know, is coming down. It is absolutely beautiful, but how many people actually do that anymore?

Emma Pruen 9:47

Or even if we do, it's because it's a dog walk and we've go, right, got to get the dog walked, got half an hour before I go to work. There's always a reason there, isn't there? Yeah, and it becomes a chore, or I'll get my steps, I'll walk the dog, and not actually I will say hello to my spirit within me and the spirit outside and connect them. Whether that's sort of yeah, just looking at the breeze through the trees or, you know, feeling the texture of the ground under our feet.

Anita Mattu 10:16

Yeah, so in I must say I'm uh I don't like the cold weather, but in the summer I do w walk barefooted. I like the grass under my feet. And it's really interesting how you know, hugger tree, all these little ritual rituals that we can do to help ourselves. And it doesn't have to cost anything either.

Emma Pruen 10:36

No. I mean I've I I don't know if I told you, but I was bereaved about 18 months ago. My husband died, and in the sort of really worst periods of grief, and there's nothing you can do about that, there's nothing you can fix it, you can't go to a therapist to make it better, because nothing makes grief better. And just going and leaning on a tree was sometimes the most supportive thing I could do for myself. And you know, a tree is connected to the earth and kind of connected to the sky and just sort of giving it to that, because it's you know, something like grief can be so overwhelming and so much more than, you know, we can cope with on our own. And um, yeah, I found nature a huge resource, well I still do, for for, you know, those moments when I'm really low. Sorry about your husband. Thank you.

Micro Nature Reset Practices

Anita Mattu 11:22

Um yeah, absolutely. Grief is something that is personal to each of us. And if we can share how it helped us, maybe somebody else can take something from them.

Emma Pruen 11:34

So And we can feel a little bit silly, you know. I do appreciate that, you know, if you're in a park, you don't necessarily want to be seen hugging a tree. But you can always go and sit and lean against one and shut your eyes. And nobody knows if you're not just having a little rest while you're actually giving a silent prayer to the tree to just please help you, you know, you know, take some of this and uh transmute it.

Anita Mattu 12:01

I love that because yeah, absolutely. Some people probably think, oh, what's that weirdo over there doing, you know?

Emma Pruen 12:07

And it actually I think as I grow older I realise that less and less people give the give a monkeys about what anybody else is doing, and they're think only thinking about whether they look silly. But um, so I do hug trees with abandon now, but you know, I appreciate that that's that's kind of a journey, isn't it? I think once we pass about 50 we go, oh actually nobody cares.

Anita Mattu 12:30

Yeah, everyone's too worried or everyone's too worried about their own lives or on their phone, say let's be honest. You've had a fascinating career, pivot from journalism to shamanic healing, that is a big change.

Emma Pruen 12:46

Yeah, and via politics. I've worked for the Green Party in the middle.

Anita Mattu 12:50

So how can the rituals and natural therapy innovates in your book help women find the courage to follow their own wild roots instead of traditional career paths? Because yours has been a very different path, and now shamanic healing, and now what you're doing with the book as well.

Emma Pruen 13:13

I was lucky enough to meet a mentor very early on in my career, an older woman who I had a lot of respect for, and I so I said to her, I sort of I looked at these older women and thought, Oh, I want to be like you. And how how do I get from here where I'm, you know, got it, you know, skin disorders because I'm so stressed at work. I mean, I was working at Marks and Spencer's and absolutely miserable in my very first job out of uni. And um and she sort of just nudged me in a few directions which started me off. So my my kind of advice is always to just do something. So my like my my sort of some of the younger people I know that live in London go off and do a sound bath together. And they say, it's just lovely after a day at work to be sort of tucked up in this big church, and you know, and this lovely lady, she gives you a pillow and she tucks you up and then she does lovely sound bath. And, you know, some something like that, which is really nurturing and lovely, you know, that just then gives you the courage, because it's a little bit odd a sound bath, but not too weird. And then you do that, and and then when you notice the benefits, you go, actually, I feel so much more relaxed and less stressed doing that, you know, might do something else. Or, oh, she's doing uh she's doing something outside at the weekend in a park, let's go and do that. And you know, so I think anything, anything that you feel comfortable with to sort of start you off, and then you'll find your own direction. We all have our own special interests, gifts, skills, talents, and so there's you know a different route for all of us.

Anita Mattu 14:46

But uh yeah, because like here, here's the thing, right? Having someone tuck you up, you know, in a soundbar to sound absolutely fantastic. And many people wouldn't do something like that to relax or find things that this day and age, and um a lot of people tend to want alternative things, you know, they'll reach for a glass of probably wine or you know, other things to relax them. But if you can go somewhere which would actually help the inside, this is again coming from the inside instead of you know external temporary fixes is what I'm trying to say here.

Emma Pruen 15:24

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I'm not I'm not, you know, I'm as fond of a glass of wine. My retreat center's in southwest France near Bordeaux. I mean, it'd be practically illegal not to drink wine out there. And that's lovely, but um it's it's that difference, isn't it, between doing it because we're just so knocked out from our day and we want to sort of really just bludgeon ourselves into relaxation, but as opposed to sort of have a glass of wine with friends on a Sunday lunch or something. But uh yeah, absolutely. Anything we can do to to sort of settle our nervous systems, to sort of, as you say, relax ourselves from the inside out is is gonna have so much more benefit. And you know, for our long-term health as well. I'm not a great expert on sound, but um, although I recommend lots of sound healers in the book, um, so people can go there. They're they're all over the country. They're in church halls, you know, from Swansea to, you know, the north of Scotland. You can you can find one somewhere. And it's just such a lovely thing to do, to yeah, feel and there's there's all kinds of science on the vibration of sound and what it does to your cells and your body.

Anita Mattu 16:32

And absolutely, it's like finding that inner peace or that finding that core within you and reconnecting. So that's really absolutely beautiful.

Emma Pruen 16:43

Yeah. Because there's those moments that we can give ourselves some space for a pause, or that's that's the time when we get our sort of intuitive downloads, or suddenly have the brilliant idea, or you know, come to that decision that's been really, you know, we've been struggling with, and like, should I, you know, stay with this person or not, or all those kind of issues, or you know, should I move job? Or you know, it's in the moments of peace that we can get in touch with our own intuition, our own wisdom, our own knowing, and and hear ourselves, if you like. So I think that's the that's the sort of key to reconnecting with ourselves is being able to give ourselves the moments and time to listen, whether that's through meditation or, you know, leaning against a tree with our eyes shut in the park.

Anita Mattu 17:33

Absolutely, because life is so busy and so noisy. So having that moment actually to slow down. I'm always telling my clients, slow down, you don't need to go a hundred miles an hour, slow down. Actually, can you hear yourself? That's when the answers come, and like you've just said, absolutely that's when the answers come.

Grief, Trees, And Real Support

Emma Pruen 17:55

I had a lovely story from a lady in Brighton called the Karma Coach, who was sitting at her desk one day and she had a whole list of things to do, she had a newsletter to write, and all of this, and she just got this sort of intuitive flash that she should just go out for a walk on the beach, and she really struggled with it because you know she's hardworking and she knew she had to um do all this work. But anyway, she listened to her intuition, she went out for a walk on the beach, she bumped into somebody, um, they had a chat, somebody that she knew, they had a chat, it developed into sort of such an amazing work benefit. It sorted out some of the things on her list that she needed to find out about and do. And it was just always such a I've always remembered her telling me that that, you know, we think we know we think that to get our to-do list done, we have to sit at our desk all day. But I really do believe that getting out for ten minutes can actually, you know, get some of it done more quickly.

Anita Mattu 18:52

And is that connection again standing out, speaking it out? Some of the experiences in your book, like sweat lodges or totem dragon training, sounds quite intense. What do you say to the women who is curious but terrified of stepping outside of their comfort zone?

Emma Pruen 19:15

There's there's it's it's a big step and I get it, and it does sound weird. Um but actually I've always found whenever I've turned up at a group like that, that the the level of kind of emotional honesty and realness from the people that are there makes kind of connections better, heart connections, real connections. And rather than being frightening, I find it actually nowadays sort of almost more more settling than walking into a huge party full of people I don't know. I find that more more frightening because people that are on the path, you know, they're doing their inner work. And, you know, and also there's a sort of thing that, you know, if you're in this sort of world that, you know, there's it kind of it's understood that it's, you know, that what we're doing is being kind and supporting each other, and you know, that we're all we're all just struggling to make sense of life and to live a good and authentic life. And um actually, you know, they'll probably find that the welcome they get is is, you know, immediately puts them at their ease and it's actually much less scary. I mean, I've I've taught led shamanic events, you know, systemic constellations, all kinds of things that are are, you know, they are weird, they are out there. I really get it. But, you know, we'll always start with a cup of tea and an explanation. And with all of these things, you know, any good facilitator will always say, only share as much as you're comfortable with, only do what you're comfortable with, listen to yourself, you're your highest authority on yourself. You know, and if you ever came across anybody that, you know, you thought, no, this is not for me and I'm not comfortable saying no, then I would say that that wasn't for you. And that it's really okay to get up and go. You know, I've had a couple of times where, I mean, as a journalist, I was exploring all of this work. So I was really, you know, anything that was the wackiest sounding thing, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna write that article, I'm going to do that, you know, that's for me. And I turn up, and you know, uh there are there are some, you know, people doing it not just, I mean, one or two in 45 years that I've thought, ooh, I don't feel entirely comfortable here. And I'm the proudest of myself for going, actually, you know, sorry, this isn't for me, and just going. And that's fine. But as I said, that's just been so few and far between, and you know, 99% of my anything I've done is just lovely people, just really, you know, usually working for for far less than they could earn elsewhere to just provide, you know, experiences for people, help them reconnect to themselves. So I think you're safer, you're safer to a dragon training workshop than you are, you know, going in and you know to the dragon's den or, you know, into the city or, you know, that sort of thing. You're probably doing much braver things every day at work.

Anita Mattu 22:28

Yes. And the thing is we don't realise this, how courageous we are in everyday life, and stepping out of our comfort zone we think so out of the ordinary, but yet we do it every day without realizing it.

Emma Pruen 22:41

Yeah. I know some some days, I mean, the lives that I see with my clients, I mean, just like everybody's going through such stuff. Everybody's got, you know, an ill parent or a child with mental health problems, or a bullying boss, or, you know, a terrible history, you know, very traumatic childhood, or, you know, just like everybody's got something. Just you know, for some people just getting up, cleaning their teeth, putting on their clothes, and getting out out to the office is just such an enormous act of bravery and resilience. And, you know, when I hear people's stories, just I'm so impressed with people even managing to do that in their lives. And they might come to me and they go, I'm so broken, and I go, Hey, you've got enough self-love and enough resilience to earn the money to and to the self-love to choose to do something like this. Actually you're doing really well.

Anita Mattu 23:39

That's so true. So true on so many different levels. So your book, Wild Self, who is it for, would you say?

Rituals, Sound Baths, Inner Listening

Emma Pruen 23:47

Yeah, it sort of it changed. I started to think when I first started it, I was really um, you know, I I've I've often worked around, you know, just in voluntary work things. I've worked around children and young people. I worked for a children's health charity years ago. Um, I was the tri families and children's spokesperson for the Green Party. I mean, I I really I really worry about our young people. And so that was sort of, I suppose that's the thing that I most wanted to do it for. You know, the kids of 22, 23, that, you know, they're bright, they're intelligent, they're lovely, and they're too anxious to leave their bedroom, and they're dropping out of university, or they're having suicidal thoughts and really struggling to cope. Those are the people I I, you know, most want to help. But really I think there's, you know, there's something in there for everyone. And, you know, not even starting on all the men that are struggling um that could, you know, really benefit from a men's group, um, and a bit of rewilding themselves. Because I think possibly even more than women, the men are, you know, really struggling from being over domesticated. And, you know, they need a bit of being out with their shirts off and chopping, you know, logs with axes and hunting a few, you know, hunting a few wrestling a few birds to the ground and bringing them home for dinner and that kind of thing, rather than stopping off at the supermarket on the way home. Yes.

Anita Mattu 25:18

And I love that. It's so true. At the moment, right, I f I'm finding I'm speaking to a lot more men that are doing men's groups, so they're not enough. As women, we have so many groups we can turn to be on our friends. Men are not so inclined to have a chat, you know, with their mates, or if they are, they're going down the path for a pint or manly, like whatever that version for yourself is, you know. So, yes, definitely.

Emma Pruen 25:48

I see I see that too. I mean, when I worked with my husband, we we did self-development workshops and he was very blokey. And and women would come to him and say, Oh, I think my husband might be willing to see you, you know, as opposed to you know, somebody else. And so we did, I think we got more than most on our workshops, but still it was sort of maximum 40%, and that's more than I've seen. I mean, 40% men to 60% women, and I think that's more than I've seen anywhere. I mean, I've had a I've had a retreat center, and so I've seen years, what, 12 years of people bringing groups, and very often it's all women, and it's such a shame. And when there is one guy, you're kind of like, oh, he's gonna be all kind of on his own with all these women. Um, so I'd love to see more guys doing this stuff. I really would.

Anita Mattu 26:38

Yes, definitely. And tell me more about your retreat.

Emma Pruen 26:41

Oh, so yes, I bought a with my husband, I bought a house in southwest France. It was after I was running for um the Green Party for the European elections. Obviously, post-Brexit, we're not in Europe, so that job would not have gone very far anyway. Back in in I don't know, 2009, I'd been working for the Greens, helping elector uh Green candidate in Brighton. And then I got asked if I'd like to stand, you know, like to run for standing for the Europeans, and I was very excited and really keen to go off to Brussels and be an MEP. But I I got I got selected, but I didn't get to the top, so I won't go into the whole electoral system in the EU, but it meant that only one of us got elected and it wasn't me. And I was so disappointed. I kind of wanted a constellation prize, and I thought I was sort of mentally I'd moved to, I'd moved abroad. I was already in Brussels and Strasbourg. And so I was like, well, let's go on holiday to France anyway and have a little look and just, you know. And of course, I was thinking maybe we'd buy ourselves a tumble-down shack and put a couple of tents in it and you know, and just have a water pipe for our some holidays. And then when I saw the price of houses in southwest France, then I just got really carried away. And I was like, oh my goodness, there's this huge building, and we could turn this into a group room. This is a hundred square meters, this could be a yoga studio, and we could build a swimming pool here, and then one thing to lead to another. Again, you know, friends go, You're so brave, Emma.

Anita Mattu 28:13

And the rest of my family kind of go, brave, foolhardy.

Emma Pruen 28:18

Yeah, so we because Matthew was was running running workshops and retreats himself, and I thought, well, that'd be lovely. He can le he can lead them here so he doesn't have to fly off somewhere else. We can, you know, be together every evening, which I wanted. So yeah, that's how it started. We we did the work. Of course, it was classic, classic grand designs. You know, we ran out of money, we looked at it all and thought, what have we done? And you know, had to borrow to, you know, quite a lot to finish it all. But yeah, it's just been it's been a lovely resource. We have, you know, retreats from about April to October, and I just have the most wonderful people turning up, facilitators and their guests. So different people come and lead retreats with us. And well, with me now. And uh yeah, it's uh it's a lovely thing. And I've I get to run my own there as well, so I don't have to worry about finding a good venue because I just have one that's just how I like it.

Anita Mattu 29:17

And like in the south of France, you know.

Emma Pruen 29:19

Yeah. Why not? Yeah, down near Bordeaux. Wow, lovely.

Anita Mattu 29:23

And that's an example of being your wild self, mate.

Emma Pruen 29:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think I think I've just sort of I'm quite stubborn. And if I'm doing something I hate, I just like I don't want to do this. And you know, of course, sensible people will go, well, you've got to pay the mortgage or you've got to do this. And but there's this bit of me that's just so visceral. I think because when I worked at Marks and Spencer's, I got ill and I was like, going into work, being sick, being sent home, being absolutely fine, calling my friends, going out for lunch, going in the next day, being sick, you know, and it was an absolute reaction to that. And so I know that that it I mean for other people, I'm sure it does make other people ill, but then maybe their symptoms are more just stress related, or you know, they develop IBS, but they don't connect it to the job they hate or whatever. So I just know things m you know, just like I'm not gonna do it. If I if I hate something not making me happy, I was like, no, not doing this anymore. Just yeah.

Anita Mattu 30:25

So interesting though, like you said, just being sick. Um it was a reaction of being in that place, that situation. Yeah. And then again, you see, I know I keep referring to the inner body is telling us something. Yeah. We don't listen, do we?

Rewilding Work, Retreats, Next Steps

Emma Pruen 30:41

Yeah, or we're too scared to, you know, it's a big deal. I'd I'd, you know, I got this I'd got this good job and then I'd, you know, bought a place because we could back then. And, you know, I had a mortgage, and it is really scary, but but I had to do something. My mum helped me. She was like, okay, how about, you know, sh she said, I'll I'll pay your mortgage, and you, you know, I had this plan for a business. Should I pay your mortgage and then everything you earn you pay back to me, and then we can balance it out over the years, which she did. So, you know, I was lucky to, you know, that my mum could do that. And I really appreciate it's not for everybody. And I'm incredibly lucky and privileged that I I am, you know, I did have that, you know, safety net there. That um, you know, I could do that and it just, yeah, my heart goes out to people, are trapped in situations. But um I do think that that's you know, like a lot of the work I do now started as a hobby. And, you know, I so I started years ago, I worked for a for an organization called More to Life, and I developed I I trained in their self-esteem enhancement training, and then learnt to run this course that was just six evenings over six weeks. So I started doing that, and that was just you know, it wasn't making me much money, it was a complete sideline. But I learned sort of facilitation skills doing that, and that has then been able to become my career, you know, later when we developed the retreat center. I sort of could s slip into running those retreats really easily. That's that's you know another route through sometimes.

Anita Mattu 32:17

Yeah, it's from our own experiences, isn't it? What are we able to offer as well? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Just tell me, I will ask you again, but just tell me where can the listeners get the book and it's for pre-order at the moment, I believe.

Emma Pruen 32:31

Yeah, so it's it's on Amazon for pre-order. So yeah, put in Wild Self and it'll of course give you 50 other options other than that. If you put Wild Self in my name, it narrows it down to about 10 and you could find it. Um and it's published by Wild Things Publishing, so it's on their site. Wild Things Publishing do um all the wild swimming books. I don't know if you've come across them, they're really lovely too. Um so from from them too, directly if you don't want to give the money to Amazon, which I appreciate it's not for everyone. And then it's out in the shops from the first of May.

Anita Mattu 33:06

Okay, and the links will all be in the show notes, listeners, so please do go ahead, pre-order it. It sounds like a fantastic book and the growth book as well. Really get into the core of who you are. So yes.

Emma Pruen 33:20

Yeah.

Anita Mattu 33:20

And if it's not for you, maybe it's for your niece or nephew. Yes, absolutely. And the more we help the children future generations, the better. I think they'll have a better chance of understanding who they are without all the noise that goes on currently. So what is one of the most important lessons you've learnt over your life so far? Because let's face it, you've probably learnt thousands.

Emma Pruen 33:45

I've learnt thousands, but I think the thing that's most served me was learning to trust my intuition. And I was lucky to have uh uh lucky to have a twin sister. So we could when we were very little we found this we went for a long walk and we found this field and we said we looked at each other and both went, it's fairy land. And we knew there was something magical in that space. And even though of course our parents laughed at us when we said we found fairyland, and they thought, ha ha ha, they really joked. But I know when I go to spaces that are magical, and I feel the same thing, and I can trust that because I had somebody else that verified it. It was like, yep, she got it too. And if you've got a good ally in this work to sort of to check them out, it's like, oh, I just noticed that or I just sensed that, what did you sense? Um, to sort of really develop your intuition or to just listen to yourself. Yeah. And learn to learn to listen to yourself and listen to those um just things that drop into our heads randomly. It's just so often somebody else, you know, somewhere else thinking about us. And I think the more we can trust ourselves, the more we can live a happy life and just follow what's right for us.

Anita Mattu 35:01

And I think that's the key there. Follow what's right for us and not the outside world. Yeah, not what we're told on Instagram, for sure. If there was one key takeaway you want every listener to walk away with today, what would that be, Emma?

Emma Pruen 35:17

That there is a huge world out there absolutely waiting for us to say hello, and it's free, and it's always there. We've always got the ground under our feet. That is one of the only things we can rely on in the world right now. And just noticing your feet, touching it, noticing that connection, you know, is probably the kindest thing you can do for yourself each morning. That's brilliant.

Anita Mattu 35:41

So, where can the listeners find you online? Your book again? Oh, what's your website?

Emma Pruen 35:47

Um my website is EmmaPruin.com. It's a funny old name, P-R-U-E-N. Really difficult to spell, it's horrible for the dyslexics. And what it's not is Emma Prune. So don't put that in. Absolutely.

Anita Mattu 36:05

Connect with Emma.

Emma Pruen 36:07

Drop me a line, anybody, if you want to if you've got any questions, just WhatsApp me and yeah.

Anita Mattu 36:11

Thank you for sharing your insightful wisdom and knowledge with us today. And doing so, I know you have helped so many others make a difference. I'd really like to acknowledge you for that. Emma Pruing.

Emma Pruen 36:23

Oh, bless you, Anita. Thank you. It's a treat to come on and be with you. Thank you for having me.

Anita Mattu 36:28

It's been my absolute pleasure. So we are all about create the courage to be fearless, podcast it. What is your definition of courage?

Emma Pruen 36:35

Oh, it's that old book, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.