Create the Courage to be Fearless

Migraine Relief Naturally: The Migraine Freedom Method | Debbie Waidl EP 218

• Anita Mattu • Episode 218

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If migraines are shaping your calendar, your parenting, your relationships, and even how you think about your future, this episode will change the way you see them.

I’m joined by migraine freedom expert Debbie Waidl, who went from daily, debilitating migraines—and a cabinet full of medication—to more than a decade completely migraine-free. In this conversation, she shares the exact shifts that made that transformation possible.

We explore why focusing only on symptom control can keep you stuck, and how a root-cause, functional medicine approach looks deeper while still respecting the role of conventional care. Debbie breaks down chronic inflammation in simple terms, and explains how modern life quietly adds to the migraine load—from sleep disruption and stress to toxins and even the wrong kind of exercise.

You’ll also learn why “only a few migraines a month” can still impact you every single day through anticipation, fear, and constant planning.

Debbie walks through her Freedom From Migraine Method, including:
• The hidden chronic inducers keeping migraines in place
• Deeper drivers like hormones and gut health
• How your genetics influence (but don’t define) your outcomes
• The transformation phase that makes results sustainable

We also talk about prodromes and early warning signs, the role of mindset and neuroplasticity, and why community support is a missing piece for so many women living with chronic migraine.

If you’re ready for practical, hopeful migraine relief—and a new way to think about your health—this episode is for you.

Share it with someone who needs it, and don’t forget to follow and leave a review so more women can find the support they’ve been missing.

Website: https://pages.debbiewaidlcoach.com/
Link to Free Women’s Migraine Freedom™  group
https://urlgeni.us/facebook/Womensmigrainefreedom
YouTube: https://urlgeni.us/youtube/channel/migrainefreedom
Migraine Freedom™ Webinar: https://dwvirtualguide.com/live-training
Ebook: https://dwvirtualguide.com/free-guide

If you are enjoying my work then you can support me by 'buying me a coffee' at this page  
I look forward to connecting with you Anita Mattu https://linktr.ee/AnitaMattu

Debbie Waidl

It's time to put yourself first. It is time to realize that your life is just as important as everyone else's. That if you want to be there for your kids, your friends, your family, your spouses, yourself, that you have to put yourself first. And it is not selfish. It is probably the least selfish thing that you will ever do in your life. You are worth whatever it takes to be the healthiest and happiest version of you.

Anita Mattu

Today I'm joined with Debbie Weidel, a migraine freedom expert. Debbie, it's such a pleasure to have you here today.

Debbie Waidl

Anita, thank you so much.

Anita Mattu

I'm really excited to learn a lot more about migraines. I think it's really important, and people don't realize the importance. For some people, it can be debilitated so much. So yes, I know in the past I have had migraines, and I do sometimes very rarely get them now. So it's something close to my heart.

Debbie Waidl

Well, I'm so glad that you rarely get them now, because one in four women are suffering with migraines, and that number

Put Yourself First

Debbie Waidl

just keeps increasing. So I'm glad that I can be here today to share a little bit of hope with some people.

Anita Mattu

So with that said, what is one of the most courageous things that you have done?

Debbie Waidl

Well, I would say it actually ties in with this. Uh, one of the most courageous things I think I've done is totally switch careers in my 40s. I, you know, had a thriving business, things were going well, but then I just was so sick for so long and did not get the help that I needed, especially getting it quick enough and had to really take matters into my own hands. And I didn't want anybody else to have to do that. So I totally switched careers. I am not a tech person and I took my business online. So hear this 40-year-old person trying to learn how to finagle Facebook and Slack and Zoom and you know everything else. And I just knew I had to do it. It was scary every day. Some days I admit it's still a little scary, and I have to pull my big girl pants on and, you know, learn and know I can do it. But to see women and to see the change that my team and I have been able to make in so many women's lives, it was 100% worth every scary moment and every change that I made to do this.

Anita Mattu

Yes,

Switching Careers For A Mission

Anita Mattu

I can absolutely understand that. Because having a business online is one thing, and knowing all the components of it and how it all functions is another.

Debbie Waidl

Yeah. And then as soon as you get it, they change the platform, and then you have to learn it again.

Anita Mattu

Up-to-date technology for you.

Debbie Waidl

I know, and I just didn't grow up that way. I mean, I went to uh parochial high school and they taught typing, you know, on typewriters. I mean, I'm 56, I'm not, you know, but still it's a different world. And I thought, I'll never need typing. I don't need this class. Well, the joke's on me, right?

Anita Mattu

Yeah, it's just quite funny, isn't it? Oh my gosh. So can you share your journey of what led you to become a migrant freedom expert?

Debbie Waidl

I would love to. So in my 30s, I had my second child. I was actually 30 years old when my daughter was born. And it seemed like the minute she was born, all of a sudden these occasional, what I called headaches, all of a sudden turned into daily pain that kept increasing to the point where I knew that they were migraines. My mother had migraines, my grandmother had migraines. And then I just kept getting sicker and sicker, you know, on top of the migraines. It was extreme exhaustion. I could barely get out of bed, joint pain in my 30s, uh, insomnia, gut issues, allergies. The list just kept going on and on. And I felt like I was spending more time at the doctor than my, you know, my child, which, you know, they go to the doctor a lot when they're little, but I had more appointments than she did. And of course, we went through the normal gamut. You know, the doctors put me on medication and told me don't drink red wine, stay away from chocolate, you know, all the normal things they say to people with migraines. And I even went to a neurologist, a specialist in my area.

When Headaches Become Daily Migraine

Debbie Waidl

He was the top migraine expert. And by the time I was done with all of this, I was on seven different medications. And I was, you know, 37. So I just knew that this was not the right way to go. So I started researching on my own. I realized that there was, you know, a difference between conventional medicine and functional medicine. I'd never really heard that before. So went back to school, got certifications, and realized that if anybody was going to help me, it was going to be me. So took control and here I am today, created the Freedom from Migraine method, the very thing I tested on myself. And now have helped over a thousand women be able to reduce the severity duration and frequency of their migraines just by shifting. You know, I still love conventional medicine, don't get me wrong, but there's a time and a place for both, and really shifting the perspective of okay, we don't necessarily go to a conventional doctor when we need to overhaul our whole system. But man, if we break our leg, we know exactly where we're going, right? So that's what led me here today. And now I can gratefully say it's been over 10 years since I've had a migraine.

Anita Mattu

Oh wow, how incredible is that.

Debbie Waidl

It's amazing. It really is amazing. I am, as I said, I'm 56. I feel healthier now than I did when I was in my 30s.

Anita Mattu

God, that's saying something, isn't it?

Debbie Waidl

Yeah. When you pay attention to your health, you know, and you you have to give your body what it needs every day. And now I know how to do that.

Anita Mattu

So So what was it like living with daily migraines and how did that impact your life? Because I can imagine that had that can be very incredibly challenging.

Debbie Waidl

It really was. Yeah. As I said, my daughter just born and I had a son. Uh he was four and a half years older. So trying to raise two children, trying to work, trying to be a friend, a daughter, a spouse. It was, I must admit, kind of miserable. You know, when I look back, I am so sad still that I missed so much of their young years. I wanted to be a mom so bad. And my kids actually grew up on TV a lot because there were many days where I didn't have an option. I couldn't take, you know, I kept them safe in the house. You know, we'd get locked in a room and I knew they were okay, but I couldn't punt them off to babysitters every day and family every day. And I only had, you know, I had Imotrex, which I'm sure if a lot of people have migraines, they're going to know that drug, Sumatriptin. You only get nine a month. When you have migraines 30 days out of the month, you know, there's a lot of days that you don't have that

The Hidden Cost On Family Life

Debbie Waidl

medication. So we, you know, I spent a lot of time not being the mom that I wanted to be. Or if I was able to do the things I wanted to, I was really pushing through, which I see this with so many women. We drug up, we ice up, we put the oil up so that we can go try to do the thing. But inside, you're just dying and you're waiting to get home. My kids actually joke with me. They didn't realize this till about a year ago, which is so funny. They're 30 and 26 now. They finally realized why I put them to bed so early. They were like, mom, we go to bed earlier than any of our friends. Why? And I made something up back then, but it was because I couldn't do it anymore. It was like, all right, I hit my limit. I'm like a level eight migraine. It's time for bed. So it was hard. It really was. And I don't want anyone else to have to do that. You know, life is so short, it's so precious. And to waste any of that time on chronic pain, it is just such a waste. So I try not to look back and be sad, but I try to look back and look at that as okay, I have something that I can teach and share with others so that they don't have to do the same thing.

Anita Mattu

Absolutely. And it must have been isolating as well. Because like you said, you're locking yourself in a room as long as your children are safe. And then what else can you do? Yeah. Apart from sleep it off, take them anyway.

Debbie Waidl

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I lost a lot of friends. And I'm not saying they that I couldn't still talk to them today as much, but you know, there were quite a few friends after the tenth time of saying, Hey Debbie, do you want to go out and be canceling? You know, after a while, I'm sure they probably thought, well, she just doesn't want to be with us or do something. But it literally was, I don't have anything left to give today. Um, so that was really hard. And, you know, some family relationships. And of course, it was a big strain. It's a huge strain on a marriage, you know, trying to my husband would work all day and come home and be like, okay, well, now I'm gonna make dinner. Now I'm gonna bathe the kids, now I'm gonna do the laundry. And, you know, not that that was necessarily all my job, but I am a big believer of splitting everything in a household. And I was working part-time, he was working full-time. So of course I wanted to pick up some of that slack, but I could barely make it through part-time. You know, I really, I really struggled a lot of days just to get to work. But the sad thing is, is I needed to because I needed that money to pay for therapies to get through the day because of migraines. My money would go to a chiropractor, an acupuncturist, a massage therapist, medication, the latest ice hat. So I was working because of my for my pain, which was keeping me in pain. So I was on that hamster wheel the whole time, but not realizing it, right? I thought that was the only option. I didn't know there was any other option. So I just kept doing it because I'm like, well, that's what my mother did. That's what my grandmother did.

Anita Mattu

Absolutely. Was there a moment where you realized something had to change then?

Debbie Waidl

Yes. Um, it was probably one of the darker moments of my life. It was uh two in the morning, two or three, I can't remember. My husband and I were in bed. We got a phone call, and of course, you know, you're heart when the phone goes off at that hour of the night. And it was my nephew-in-law telling us that we needed to get to the hospital because my father-in-law was extremely ill. He was older, you know, he was in his late 80s. And I just turned to my husband and said, I can't drive you. You know, I had taken Imtrex, I had taken a ton of Advil, my head was pounding, it was wrapped in an ice hat, and he had to drive himself. You know, and then about 45 minutes later, my nephew called back and said, If you want to say goodbye, you got to get here. So I took another Imatrex, I took more Advil, I took Tylenol and I'm sure a few other things, drugged up to the hill and got myself in the car and drove myself there, you know, totally unsafe. Never should have been driving myself in massive pain. And it was, you know, he stayed with us for a few more days, but it was, you know, I was a shell of myself when I was there. And I just, I barely remember being there. I know I wasn't there for my husband. And I just feel horrible that chronic pain took that moment and that time from me. And, you know, not even just from me, but from being able to be there for the rest of the family, you know, because they kept taking care of me. Debbie, can we get you water? Can we get you ice? Can we, you know, let's get you a chair? And I should not have been the focus of that time. But I was because I was the one that was in pain. I hated that. I always they would ask me all the time, How are you feeling today? How's everything going? Are you okay today? Like, oh my gosh, please stop asking me. Because every day I'm in pain. So every day I have to tell you I don't feel well. And eventually they did stop asking, you know, because it was the same answer. So yeah, that was uh not a good day in my life, that is for sure. And that is the moment that I would say a couple weeks after that was when I figured out I gotta take matters into my own hands, and now is the time to make a change.

Anita Mattu

Wow, I can't imagine. I mean, constantly, and like you said, being there for your family, your husband, your father-in-law. A difficult situation is an understatement I can assure you. Yeah.

Debbie Waidl

Yeah. And my story is not unique to women out there, you know, missing a wedding, missing funeral, missing a big event for their children. You know, this is something that's so common when we have chronic pain because we think that the only solution we have is symptom suppression, you know, of managing the pain and pushing through. Most of the women I work with, I'm sure not surprising to you, are like triple type A personalities, women that, you know, feel they have to do it all, and women that are caregivers. You know, the majority of women I work with are actually in the medical field or in education. So they're women who are, you know, they're caring for everyone else and putting themselves last. And it's really hard to flip that around and realize you have to you have to put yourself first to be able to help everybody else the way you want to.

Anita Mattu

I couldn't agree more. Yes, absolutely. So, what was the biggest mindset shift that helped you start moving forward towards the migraine of freedom?

Debbie Waidl

Yeah, I mean, it really was that. It was realizing that it was okay to ask for help. It was okay to give myself that grace and opportunity to be able to do something for me. Yeah, I definitely was that woman where, you know, my husband went to work and that's kind of what he did. Yes, he cared. I mean, he loved the kids and played with the kids and did all that, but birthday planning, Christmas planning, grocery shopping, everything was me. And I finally realized that I needed to be able to put myself on the top of that list. And it was okay. I didn't have to be superwoman. And I was actually being superwoman by putting myself first so that eventually I could be there and do all those things that I wanted to do. So it was not easy. You know, I grew up in a household where we were kind of taught to be very independent, very self-sufficient. My father was a police officer, you know, and it was we had rules and

Asking For Help Without Guilt

Debbie Waidl

you did things and you were uh, you know, a big contributor to the household, which served me very well, but I took it to the extreme. I can do it best, right? Oh, sure, my husband can do the grocery list, but I can do it better. And then now I'm like, what was I thinking? You know, all those years of doing all of these things by myself, even with my children, you know. I mean, yes, they had some chores and things they did, but I look back now and I'm like, why were they not doing more? You know, I just assumed that, oh, well, I can make their bed better or I can make their lunch better. You know, so fortunately some of those things shifted. And they remember the day that they started making their lunch. They complained one too many times. And I'm like, oh, this is a perfect opportunity. You're now making your lunch every day. But that's I think that's one of the hardest things, you know, with women that I work with, when they come in to talk to me and we're talking about what help they need, what support they need, it always goes back to, well, I don't know if I have time to do that, you know. He's got soccer and and you know, Robbie's just about to start college and I gotta help him, and my husband's working full time. And I'm like, okay, but what about you? What time is left for you? And they can't tell me, you know. So I'm so glad that that shifted for me. And trust me, I still do things for my family. I love doing things for them, but I always make sure that my cup is full so that I can do that.

Anita Mattu

I think there's a lot of women out there like that as well. Always giving giving, and you have to be able to make sure you are well before you can give. What's something you wish someone had told you 10 years earlier?

Debbie Waidl

I wish I knew that there was another way. I wish I fully understood the difference between conventional medicine and functional medicine and how they can work together so well. You know, I grew up knowing, okay, you're a doctor, you have a white lab coat on, you know everything, you're gonna fix all my problems, you're gonna tell me what to do, and I'm gonna go home and do it. But I really wish I had understood back then that, okay, that, you know, we have conventional side, but here's also functional medicine where we're looking at your body as a whole, we're teaching you how to listen to your body. You know, I always talk about how our body does talk to us, it just can't speak English. It talks the symptoms, right? But we're never taught how to listen to that. We're not taught that language. So I wish I had known that there were these two wonderful forms of medicine and how you can use them together because all I did was focus on conventional medicine. And now I know there's a time and a place for everything. I'm dealing with tennis elbow right now. It hurts like crazy. I've done all of the functional things that I can, that I can do. And now I know it's time to pull in some conventional support. I'm still gonna work on the functional end, but it's like, okay, I have tried it all, I've done it all. I need a little pain relief while I continue working through this. But I think so many people think they have to love one or the other. Like it's like they have to be um they have to be in one camp or the other, and they, you know, I can't like that if I like this. But you have to really find what your body needs and utilize that in the moment. You know, be that somebody said this to me once, you have to be the captain of your own health ship. You have to be in control. You know your body better than anybody else. You know, the doctor who sees me for five minutes does not know me better. He may have the degree and sure, can give me some knowledge and information, but this is my body and I have to live with it every day. It's super important to just understand. I wish I'd understood that then. And I wish I'd known that I can say to the doctor, that's not gonna work for me. What's another way? What is something else I can do? I can't tell you how many people I talked to that say I don't like my doctor. Well, get a new one.

Anita Mattu

I mean, there are so many different ways. One does not fit all. Absolutely. Now so what did people not understand about what you were going through? Because that's quite a big thing. On the outside, people can think, how are you? Like you said, at the hospital or asking how you are.

Debbie Waidl

Unless you have migraines or have had a migraine, I don't think you understand not so much even the level of the pain, but how much it takes up your whole entire life. Even now, I had them every day, but let's just talk about somebody who maybe has them 10 days a month. It still is impacting that person's every single day because they're thinking, how many pills do I have? Do I have enough to get through the month? When is the next migraine going to show up? Is it gonna screw up my kids' concert this month? You know, what if I can't, you know, do all the things that I have to get done? What if I have to call in sick and I get fired? You know, what if, what if there's all these fears. So when I ask women, how many days a month does migraine impact you versus how many days a month are you in pain, the numbers are totally different. You know, ever they will always say, Well, migraine impacts me every single day. Every single day. You know, and that's something that we really have to be thinking about. So if someone says, Well, I only have a couple migraines a month, I'm gonna live with them, I'm not gonna worry about it. Well, no, you have something that is impacting every single moment of your life, which really needs to be a focus. It really has to, because migraine is not just pain. Migraine is something that takes over and it doesn't just impact you, it impacts your family, it impacts your kids, it impacts your husband, your wife, your, you know, your parents, because they just they don't get you, right? They don't get to have you the way that they want all the time. And they don't fully understand because they haven't experienced that. And it can be very isolating when someone says to you, Well, it's just a headache. Can't you just drink some water and take an advil? And you're like, um, no, I can't. I could, but it's not gonna do anything, right? Um, and they love, they love you, of course. They just don't understand. It's really hard to understand something you haven't gone through. Kind of like men with childbirth, right? They'll I know they say if you have a kidney stone, it's the same, but I don't know. I think if you just if you have an experience, you don't know. So we actually work on training families as well, trying to give them a little bit of a perspective of what their loved ones are going through so that you can have this full support system. Because as you I think you used the word before isolating, it can be very isolating, you know, not just being in the dark room, but your whole entire life. You can feel isolated.

Anita Mattu

Yeah. What fears or doubts did you have to overcome along the way? Because there must have been many.

Debbie Waidl

There were definitely many. One of the biggest ones that I really had to focus on was being okay with the fact that my family thought I was a little nuts for a while. Because it they were so big into conventional medicine. Like, why do you want to stop taking medication? Why are you not going to the top neurologist anymore? Why are you trying all these, you know, like it can't be your food? It literally can't be you changing your food and exercising. More and doing all these things, I got a lot of pushback. And I got a lot of pushback from friends as well because they thought that, you know, what is she doing? It medicine is medicine. So I was afraid, you know, that I was doing the wrong thing. I wasn't really sure, of course, until I started seeing the results. I was afraid of conflict. I was that kid that was very introverted when I was little. I was the observer. I didn't talk a lot. I didn't like conflict. I didn't want people mad at me. So to have to come out of my shell and be able to stand up for myself was really hard. Of course, very worth it, but it was really hard for me. So it was a long journey trying to kind of break those fears. And then, of course, the big fear of when I switched careers. That was huge. You know, and it was uh it was also at a time where my husband had been laid off. So here I am spending a ton of money on migraines, had a halfway decent business, um, and then decided, nope, that's not what I want to do. And I think my husband thought I was nuts. Like, this is really the time we're gonna be switching. But I just knew. I mean, I just had that, I knew I had to share the story, and I knew the only way I could do it was by helping people, you know, because you go to the doctors and you talk to them about this stuff and they're like, Yeah, Debbie, if you want to go do that at home, that's fine. I still want to give you your Imtrax. You know, here's your prescription, take it home. I'm sure you're gonna need it. It was probably one of the best days of my life when I could call that doctor and say, Stop, stop the prescription. I don't need it anymore. And they're like, Oh, you'll be back. I'm like, no, I won't. I won't be back. And I haven't been back.

Anita Mattu

But that nicely goes on to my next question. Many people rely on medication. So what do you believe is missing from that approach?

Debbie Waidl

Absolutely. So it was kind of like the conventional medicine and functional medicine. You know, there's two sides when you look at any type of chronic pain. So whether it's migraine or not, this works for that. We have to think about what is the root cause? What is causing the symptom and pain? And then at the other side, what can we do to manage the pain while we're working on the root cause? So I'm not anti-medication. I'm not anti-support for when you're in pain, because I remember those days. And there's no way when I had daily migraines, if you tried to rip my medication out of my hands, I would have fought you through the nail. Like, absolutely not. That is mine. You cannot have it. But I also know that the longer you take medication, the longer you're going to be stuck. Because medication, it is in its own effect toxic. You know, you are taking man-made chemicals, you're putting them in your body. So you're keeping yourself in this spiral. So you have to get to the root cause. And we know through research, through,

Root Cause Versus Symptom Control

Debbie Waidl

you know, functional medicine, the research I've done that at the root of all illness is chronic inflammation. So what we help women determine is where is that inflammation sneaking in? You know, is it coming in through your food? Is it coming in because we're doing the wrong type of movement for you? Not necessarily that you're not doing any, but the wrong type for you. Is it coming in from toxins in the world? Medication, cleaning products, the air we're breathing. Um, is it coming in because we're not sleeping well? You know, maybe we're in bed for nine hours, but we're not getting quality sleep. And if we're not getting quality sleep, guess what? We're not resting, we're not rejuvenating, we're not repairing, we're not building hormones, we're not clearing out waste. You know, so we look at all six areas, and one of the top ones that we look at is mindset. You know, there's so much research on neuroplasticity, neural rewiring, you know, how our thoughts impact everything that we do. So that is a huge piece of what we build into the Freedom from Migraine method. And it really goes along with all the pieces. You know, we need to have the right mindset to be able to change how we're eating, to change how we're exercising, how we're sleeping, and all those things. So inflammation isn't just a physical thing that we can say, you know, you could look at me right now and say, Well, you don't look inflamed. Well, you're not necessarily gonna see it. You know, it's this internal thing that is physical and emotional. So we know the root. It's just a matter of looking at each woman to say, how is that sneaking in for you? What subtle shifts can we make? Not an overhaul to your whole life, because if we overhaul your whole life, guess what? You're not gonna keep doing it, right? You're gonna say, that's a lot, that's too much. But what subtle shifts can you make that are gonna give you the biggest impact to reduce that inflammation? And not just for migraines. I think this is the thing that you know women need to remember. They come to me because they want their migraines reduced. I look at them and say, I want to make you the healthiest person you can be, and I want to ensure your future doesn't have cancer, heart disease, strokes, Alzheimer's, dementia, autoimmunity, all of those things in it, which are driven by inflammation. The happy side effect in me helping them reduce that inflammation is yes, the migraines decrease or go away. They feel so much better. But it's funny, they come to me and they're listing, like Anita, they list off things when I say, So how are the last four months gone? Oh, yeah, my joint pain's gone, I'm sleeping so much better, you know, my foot pain's gone, my hip. I thought I was gonna have to have surgery. And I'm like, but how about your migraines? Oh, yeah, those are great. Those are great. And you know, they it actually flips for them too. And they don't even realize it. They didn't realize how bad they felt until they started feeling better.

Anita Mattu

That's so interesting, isn't it? Because they've even forgot about the migraine itself.

Debbie Waidl

Yeah, they really do. They really do, which is wonderful because then I've done my job, you know, because I've taught them a way that they can live the healthiest version of themselves, so that when they're 70, 80, 90, we're not looking at nursing home wheelchair, not being able to do anything with the grandkids. We're looking at someone who's running around the beach, traveling, enjoying life, you know, and feeling great. Because that's the whole thing, right? If we don't have our health, we don't have anything else.

Anita Mattu

Can't agree more. Can't echo that enough. What are some of the common misconceptions about migraines that you'd love to change?

Debbie Waidl

Yes. Well, the number one is that the genetics. If my mother has migraines, if my grandmother has migraines, that means I have to have migraines. We know that, of course, genetics does play a component. We actually have a four-phase system when we work with women, and that is phase number three is looking at the genetics. But the great thing about genetics is it's like flipping a switch. You know, when we work on the things that we need to work on, we can turn that switch off. You know, as I said, my mother, the migraines, my grandmother, my sister, other family members. And guess what? I'm sitting here with no migraines. So if it was truthful, you know, that I had to have migraines, I would still have them. Now, sure, I did have them, but I was living a very inflammatory life. I mean, I was born in 1969. Guess what I grew up on? Shake and bake, TV dinners, all of that kind of thing. You know, I probably didn't move as much as I should have. And I want people to know they have control. They have control of their health. That is probably the most important thing to know. And then number two, I talk to so many women who come to me and say, Well, I have to fix my autoimmunity first, or I have gut health issues, I have to fix that first, or I had a car accident 10 years ago and my doctor told me I would never be the same. That's not true. You know, when we work on, as I said, when we work on migraines, we're really working on a chronic inflammatory system that is dysfunctional. And when we work on that, we get to work on everything else. But if you're just trying to work on a little piece of autoimmunity or a little piece of gut health, you're always going to stay stuck because that's almost like using conventional medicine, because you're focused in one area. You need to focus on the whole big picture so that all of those areas start getting better. And I think that's probably one of the hardest things for women to really get a grip on, you know, because they're still so used to that segmented system. Well, my doctor said I need to fix this, then I can work on the next, then I can work on the next. I'm like, but how much easier if we just work on it all at once? On average, about four months. You know, when we support women, on average, it's about four months for them to see a drastic reduction in the severity duration and frequency. But if they start piecemealing everything together, you could be talking decades. And they'll probably never get there. You know, because they'll keep spinning from symptom to symptom to symptom. So if I could tell two things to people, those would be my top two.

Anita Mattu

Well, that's how staggering is that then? Yeah. And we are a whole, we're not segmented either.

Debbie Waidl

Exactly. But that's what we've all grown up with, right? The average age of women that I support is 40 to 65. You know, but we all grew up that way, thinking, okay, I have a gallbladder issue, I go see this doctor. I have a foot issue, I go see this doctor, you know, and that's what we've done. And I'm not saying that that's wrong, but the problem is then nobody's talking to each other. You know, like you have a foot problem, but why? Okay, well, it could be that there's actually something wrong in your hip, or it could be that, you know, you're not you're deficient in certain minerals, so your bones are actually not as strong as they need to be. But if we're just looking at a foot doctor and no one's looking at our minerals, we're never gonna fix the foot.

Anita Mattu

So that's so interesting. So when you say migraine freedom, what does that really mean?

Debbie Waidl

I am so glad you asked this because it's so important for people to realize that I can never promise that someone's not gonna feel pain again in their life. Nobody can, right? You cannot walk up to any doctor and say, okay, I would never like to feel a migraine again. Can you take care of that for me? But in the Freedom for Migraine method, when we say migraine freedom, we mean you are gonna do work with us and learn how to get to the healthiest version of you possible. And you are gonna create a goal that you would like to obtain. And then through the things that we teach you, we are gonna get you either to your goal or as close to your goal as absolutely possible based on your body, your health, and the biggest thing, based on what you're willing to do. You know, I've had some women join that have said to me, you know, I want to eventually get back to being able to have a glass or two of wine a week. I want that. So if I end up with one or two migraines a month, I'm okay with that. Okay, that's your goal. Or other women that are like, I am never getting rid of sugar. I am so sorry.

Defining Migraine Freedom

Debbie Waidl

It's just not happening. I have to have my chocolate. Okay, there's a choice. You know, maybe you're gonna go from 30 migraines down to four or five a month that that are really like headache level now. So we really, when everyone starts working with us, the first thing they do is give us their short-term goals and their long-term goals. And then based on their health and their health history, we tell them how, you know, how realistic that is. And then this is what the plan would look like to get there for you. Now, we've taken women from 30 migraines a month, hemoplegic migraines, down to one that maybe goes away in a few hours. Uh, some women that have had horrible hormonal migraines, gone down to one or two that they consider headaches, and some women like myself that are completely migraine free. Now, me saying I'm migraine free does not mean that I've never felt anything. You know, every once in a while I get some neck pain and neck pressure. And if you're someone, you know, that has migraines listening to this, you know. I'd say probably 70% of the women I work with tell me they have a neck issue because they feel that pain. They have that tightness. They go to the chiropractor and the massage therapist all the time. So I do feel that, probably a couple of times a month. That's my warning signal. That is my sign. Debbie, you push it a little bit too much. You know, you've done a few too many things. And then once I get back on track, it goes right away. So I'm very fortunate that I have that. We call them prodromes. It's, you know, my my pain prodrome. And I, when I feel it, I know. So we also try to teach women what their prodromes are, whether they're non-pain or pain prodromes, so that they have that warning signal so that they can get as close to their migraine freedom as possible.

Anita Mattu

That's brilliant because that's what they need to know, recognize from their own body, isn't it?

Debbie Waidl

Exactly. Because we're not working with them for life. You know, we want to help them. And then we want them to go live in the world and not feel that they have to continue to have support. We want them to have the tools and the knowledge to be in charge of their own health. You know, that is the most important thing.

Anita Mattu

So you've created a powerful method around this. Can you explain your freedom from migraines method?

Debbie Waidl

Absolutely. So the Freedom from Migrade method is a four-phase system, and we take these women through each one of these phases so that they can learn what their body's trying to tell them and learn the shifts that they need to make. So, phase one, we actually look at the chronic inducers. And this is one of the phases that many women have started dabbling in on their own, looking at nutrition, sleep, exercise. You know, we have six keys in there that we focus on. But what we're doing in this phase is not necessarily overhauling everything they've done, but really trying to figure out what's right for that person. So, for example, if someone comes to me and they are like doing kickboxing every single day, and I know their adrenals are shot, but they're like, I know this exercise is gonna help my migraines. Well, it's probably not because your adrenals are shot. So we need to actually take a step back. So we teach them, you know, okay, this is what's right for you today. We can work our way back up if you love kickboxing. Because I actually do like kickboxing, but you know, we can work our way back

The Four Phases Framework

Debbie Waidl

up. But what's right for you today? And then when we figure that out, now we need to look at the other six keys. Okay, you're working out this way now. Your food may have to shift, your electrolytes might have to shift. You know, it's so it's not just that one piece again. We're looking at everything as a whole to make sure that the way that they're living, all six of those areas are working together and not fighting against each other. And then once we do that, we move into phase two. This is a very common phase for the majority of women I work with, because of course I'm usually last resort. We tried all conventional medicine, we've tried everything else. So by the time they get to me, 30 plus years of migraines, everything going on. So this is where we look at the drivers. This could be things like hormones, gut health, past concussions and injuries, you know, autoimmunity, all of that is in the drivers. So, what else do we need to shift and change? You know, can we make some lifestyle changes? Or is it something more? You know, is it something where we have to dig a little bit deeper? So that's phase two. And then phase three, we touched on a little bit already. This is the genetics. You know, do we have genetic history? Do we have maybe some genes that we need to take a peek at? And then phase four, the phase everyone loves, this is the transformation phase where we actually teach these women how to be able to live for the rest of their life. I don't want to work for somebody, work with someone and have them feel that they need me forever. You know, so we want to go into phase four and say, okay, you've made a ton of changes. Now, are there some things that we can loosen up on a little bit? Like maybe we did go no sugar for three months just to really drop that inflammation quick. Well, how can we build that back in so it's sustainable? If I have some, if someone loves sugar, like Anita, if you were a sugar addict and I told you no sugar ever again, you'd last about four months, maybe, and then you're eating sugar. So we have to figure out, okay, when are we going to add this back in? How are we going to do this? How can we have a healthy relationship with sugar? Because when people say to me when I'm, you know, supporting them, when they say I cheated or I did this, I'm like, there is no cheating. Your choice today was to do this. And that is okay. We have choices, we understand the consequences of the choice, but do you want to make the same choice again? Or do you want to make a different choice? And if you want to make a different choice, let me help you figure out how to do that. So phase four, we spend a lot of time giving them the power, giving them the control, and giving them the courage to be able to do it on their own. So those are the four phases that we take women through. The majority of women, I would say probably 90% of the women that we work with, 90 to 95, are great in those four phases. We do support women with very extreme cases, like women that can barely get out of bed, haven't been able to work. And some of those women do move on to our upper level program that we call Destination Zero. It's actually a month-by-month membership. And this is where if we need to, we can go into some testing, you know, GI map testing, hair trace mineral analysis testing, and dive in deeper into these areas because some women, oh my gosh, by the time they get to me, you know, like their spouse is running the call because they can barely, you know, lift their head off the bed. So we have support for all different levels, um, from someone who's getting one or two migraines a month all the way up to somebody who's barely functioning. But it's great to be able to have all these phases and different levels of support to be able to get them there. And I have an amazing team behind me that helps helps me do the same thing. And the women that work with me to do this have all gone through the Freedom for Migraine method, all had migraines for at least 30 years, tried everything to end their migraines and did not see results till they did this program. Because I do think that that is a key to our success, is that we know we know what you're going through, we know what you're feeling, we know what you've tried, we know how crappy it is when it doesn't work. So we can really guide you in a way that's going to get you the results that you're looking for as quickly as possible. We don't rush, but we're not looking to make this last, you know, 10 years. We'd like to get you there so you can enjoy every moment of your life as quick as you can.

Anita Mattu

Yes. And that's the key, isn't it? To be able to enjoy life. It's simple.

Debbie Waidl

That's it. Do you know what women say to me sometimes when I say, okay, where do you want to be in six months? What do you want to do? Some of the first things they say to me is, I just want to be able to do laundry. I want to be able to cook dinner. I mean, I have to really dig deep to figure out what they really want, but but that's where their minds are because they can't even do simple tasks someday. Like I want to be able to drive myself to the grocery store without worrying I'm going to have to pull over and throw up. You know, this this is where some of these women are. But when we, of course, when we dig a little deeper, I want to get to the park with my kids. I want to go to Europe with my spouse. I want to be able to plan that girl's trip or, you know, go camping in the backyard and not worry that I'm not going to be able to lie on the ground. You know, so they have massive dreams, but in the in that quick second, they can't think past getting the daily tasks done because they're having a hard time doing those on a daily basis.

Anita Mattu

It's just simple things.

Debbie Waidl

Yeah, it really is.

Anita Mattu

Living your life.

Debbie Waidl

Mm-hmm.

Anita Mattu

Yeah.

Debbie Waidl

Because we all want to feel we can do it, right? That we can do the simple things. Not that we we haven't learned to be able to ask for help, because of course we're learning to do that, right? But we still want to know we can. You know, when we think about the person who's lying in the hospital bed who's like, oh my God, just get me out of here. I want to do it myself, right? Well, we want to do it. But of course, when we're home and we're feeling well, it's like, oh well, you can wait on me if you like. It's okay. There's a total difference in that feeling of knowing you can and can't, right? And we want to know we can. We want to know that we have control and that we're able to take care of ourselves.

Anita Mattu

And that's a big thing. Uh I like you touched on that. Knowing we can doesn't mean we have to.

Debbie Waidl

Exactly. Exactly.

Anita Mattu

Yes. Because I know you've talked about food and the environment, because these are big things. But why is addressing chronic inflammation so important to lasting results? I know inflammation can cause so many issues. A lot of people are living with inflammation inflammation that they don't even realize they've got it. How can you not realize? I mean, as soon as I'm very healthy and I'd like to think I eat clean, or at least I do eat clean. And when I eat something and even my hands start getting a bit tight, I know that's inflammation instantly. So I can tell instantly when I've eaten something that didn't agree with me.

Debbie Waidl

Exactly. Yeah, we have to think about first of all, we have to think about inflammation as actual inflammation, the process in our body is wonderful. If we did not have the inflammatory process, we wouldn't be able to live, right? You cut your finger, the inflammatory process comes in and it fixes that. You sprain your ankle, same thing. You get sick, same thing. Your inflammation is running rampant right now, right? You know, trying to make sure that you're okay. And that

Chronic Inflammation Made Simple

Debbie Waidl

I was exposed, my husband exposed me to a cold. I'm sure my inflammatory process is trying to make sure I'm good. But what we don't want is the inflammatory process running 247. And we look at this. In a stoplight system that we've added an extra color. So think about green is your inflammation, kind of sitting on your shoulder, waiting, like observing, going, you know, like an army. Okay, everything looks good. It's fine. We're just going to hang out. And then yellow, it's like, there's a few things going on in there. So we're going to go in and we're going to work a little and then we're okay. So maybe like you're feeling a little allergies, maybe some mild headaches, you know, a couple little symptoms. Well, then we get to orange and your inflammatory process, your little army is like, oh man, there's a lot going on in there. We got autoimmunity. We got migraines. We got gut health issues. They're fighting all day long to try to reduce that inflammation. You've got this army that's constantly fighting. And then red is this army's done. They're exhausted. They can't fight anymore. Now we've got cancer, heart disease, and things that sometimes we can't come back from, right? Sometimes we just cannot come back from that. So we really need to do what we can within our body to support it so that our inflammatory process can work the way it's supposed to. But the problem is some of this isn't our fault. We're living in a society where there's chemicals in the air. I am sitting here with Wi-Fi all around me, right? So I have EMF exposure. I have a plastic pencil, you know, so I'm touching plastic. Some of these things we can't avoid, and we know they are inflammatory. But because I can't avoid some of this, I really need to focus on the things that I can. I really need to focus on the things that I can change. I can make sure that I sweat every day to, you know, release toxins. I can make sure I eat clean. I can make sure I get eight hours of sleep so that my body can rest and repair. I can make sure that I focus on my mental health so that, you know, I can really keep that inflammation low. So we have to think about all of these things. And not to bring in the big C word, but I really quick, I really do think that COVID would have been a different thing if we had all been a little less inflamed. You know, and even some of the big people talk about this in the functional space, you know, where when we already have a body that's inflamed, and then something else severe like that comes in, your body doesn't have the full strength to fight it. It just doesn't. So the healthier we can make ourselves with the, you know, the less our inflammation process has to work on a daily basis, the more it can help when we really need it.

Anita Mattu

And that's the thing. It is about taking control as well.

Debbie Waidl

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. We have to. We have to be in charge of our own health. Yes, we we need experts. Yes, we want to talk to somebody. Like I always joke, I would not jump on a plane and say, oh, let me fly today because I read a book, right? You know, we need experts, but that doesn't mean that I can't be smart when I get on that plane and listen to the safety features and pay attention and be observant, right? There's there's a difference between the two.

Anita Mattu

For sure. What's one small step someone listening today can take to begin their journey?

Debbie Waidl

Yeah, I I have people do this exercise quite often when I first meet them. It can really just be taking an inventory of your world. You know, sit down, whether it's with your phone, computer, piece of paper, and just kind of think about, you know, what do I do that is kind to myself on a daily basis? And what are some of the things that I know maybe don't serve my body well? Because let's face it, we know a lot of them. You know, if you're somebody that eats sugar three times a day, somebody that only works out once a month, somebody that, you know, watches Netflix instead of sleeping, you kind of already know some of the things that you can shift a little bit. And I'm not saying all those shifts are going to make you 100% pain free, but just being observant and starting to make some of those little shifts can get you going in the right direction and can really start making you think about what your priorities are. Because this does have to be a priority in order for you to be able to do the work. You know, if somebody comes to me and says, Yeah, I

One Small Step To Start

Debbie Waidl

really want to be migraine free, but you know, I want to go to Disney more, well, there's a priority, right? You know, you really have to be in that space to want to make the changes. Otherwise, it's you're not going to make a change. So make your list, see what's there, and really look at what's important to you, what you feel you can do. Pick the thing that you can be most successful at. So if you've written down 15 things that you're like, hmm, I could change all 15. Well, what's the one thing you know you're going to be able to really dial in on? I think you can be the most successful at. So let's just say you wrote down, I never drink water, I never exercise, and I go to bed really late. Well, chances are the going to bed really late is probably going to be hard for you to change. Nobody likes going to bed earlier, you know. But maybe you can, maybe you have a dog and you're like, you know what? I can walk the dog three days a week. That is something I can be successful at because the dog needs to go for a walk. I need to go for a walk. So instead of my spouse doing the walk, I'm going to do it. Bam. Now you've made yourself successful in something. Do that for a few weeks, then go back to your list. Once that becomes kind of an ingrained habit and you're used to doing it, now let's add one more thing. Okay, I never drink water. I wonder if maybe I could just every time I brush my teeth, I drink a glass of water when I'm done. Now we pair to have it with something else, right? So we can remember it more. We do that for a few weeks and then we see where we are. One of the biggest problems I see is that women are like, oh my gosh, I have like 50 things that have to change. I got to start doing it all tomorrow. And then they start doing it all tomorrow and it lasts like a day. I can't do all that. That's way too much, right? So make yourself successful. Pick something that you think you're you can really do and do that until it feels good. And then find something else.

Anita Mattu

And I know we've kind of touched on this. What role does the mindset and emotional well-being play in healing? Because we know how we feel. The mindset, if it's negative, we know it's gonna have a bad reaction.

Debbie Waidl

Yeah. In my opinion, and the opinion of many people in the functional space, stress actually causes more inflammation than inflammatory food. So many women focus on I gotta get my diet perfect, like my macros have to be right, and the electrolytes have to be right, and I have to eat the right vegetable at the right time. And then they tell me how miserable they are at work, how they're unhappy in their marriage. And let's face it, if you have migraines, how can you not be stressed? I don't know anybody that has migraines that is not stressed. So if we know that stress is causing all this inflammation and we keep shoving things down, nothing's ever gonna get better. And we have to have a different mindset in order to be able to make some of these changes. You know, we have to be able to think, okay, this is gonna work. You know, I do deserve for this to work and I do deserve for things to feel better. And if

Stress And Mindfulness As Medicine

Debbie Waidl

we aren't able to shift in that way, nothing is gonna stick that we do. You know, and then people are again gonna be doing a three to four month program with me. And then afterwards, they're gonna go right back to where they were. We know this is so important. I have a separate coach that is just a mindfulness coach. I have a separate coaching call every week that is just a mindfulness call every week. And we focus on different topics every week. We have different activities that we do, and every single thing that I do, mindfulness is built into it. That is how important this is. We actually made the shift when COVID hit, because we we have like a 95% success rate of helping women reduce the severity duration and frequency of their migraines. Well, COVID hit and all of a sudden the numbers were changing. I'm like, okay, is it because of the illness? Is it because, you know, what is going on? Well, it was everyone's mindset shift. It was isolation. It was, you know, my gosh, am I going to have a job tomorrow? It was, how am I gonna get my medication? Like some places the medications weren't coming in on time. And so all of a sudden I was like, all right, we need a quick shift, a quick shift. So this is when we started building things in. And as soon as we did, everything started changing again. You know, people started getting the results they were looking for. People started feeling better quicker and they feel more supportive because this is migraine is isolating. You know, you don't typically have someone else, you know, in your family that you can chat about all the time about migraine. So we really shifted our community to make it so that, okay, all these women I'm working with, you are all in this community together. Now you can chat every day, you can support each other every day. We're gonna make sure you have that opportunity to do that. We now have people that live in, you know, the UK and the US, and now they're friends on Facebook. You know, they're chatting all the time back and forth in Messenger. It means I hate to, and I do this all the time. I always say I'm never gonna pick one thing in the program that is the most important, but this is it. It's not your food, ladies. It's not food is important, you know, and I can hear Dr. Hyman in the background going, Hello, yes, food is important. Food is a hundred percent important. It is, but if I had to choose one thing you were gonna work on, it would be mindfulness and neuro-rewiring your brain a hundred percent every day.

Anita Mattu

That's really helpful to know for a lot of people, because like you said, they will assume it's food. Yeah.

Debbie Waidl

And I agree, we can't go around eating like we were in our 20s, right? We're not having, you know, pizza every night, drinking beer and eating Oreos. You know, we're not doing that every day. So it's okay every once in a while, but we're not doing that every day. But yeah, if I had to choose, because you have the right mindset, guess what? You want to eat healthy. You you want to enjoy, you want to make a choice and enjoy, but you care more about all those other areas when you have that mental space. You know, this is something I work on all the time. You know, women will say to me, Well, you're the coach, you you must, you know, already just be there. You don't do at everything. I'm like, no, I actually have someone I talk to, you know, once a month. Um, I think it's super important, you know, whether you need someone weekly, monthly, whatever, but just someone to chat with to kind of keep me on track and know the things that I need to work on. You know, I go to yoga three days a week. I must admit I'm not a big sit-down and like meditate, but I meditate in a different way. I take the dog for a walk and I am thinking. I'm in the shower and I am thinking. And it's about finding what's right for you and really going with that and giving you, it's like taking that mental break in a day, right? You know, after you and I are done, we've, you know, been staring at a screen for a while, I'll go look out the window, you know, and just kind of take a peek and look around, or look at my pup for a minute behind me, or you know, make that mental shift of, okay, take a deep breath, you know, and really just center myself again. It makes such a difference. It really does.

Anita Mattu

Yes, and I shall go for a walk, a short walk today.

Debbie Waidl

Yeah, absolutely.

Anita Mattu

This will be a really interesting question. If you can possibly name one, what's what has been the most rewarding part of helping others achieve migraine freedom? Ugh.

Debbie Waidl

Yes, I love this. I get the opportunity when we are completing our time with working with someone to jump on a call like this and chat with them. And of course, I always ask them, you know, how things were in the beginning compared to now. And just hearing the changes in their life and the things that they're now able to do, each time I hear it, it brings me goosebumps. You know, women that have said to me, I got to go to Ireland. I took a two-week trip to Ireland that I thought I would never be able to do. Because I always ask them at the beginning, you know, what's your bucket list? What are the things you want to do? As I said, you know, let's get past the laundry. What do you really want to do? And to be able to see them experience those things and hear their stories. So many of them have actually shared their stories. We have quite a few of them on YouTube. But it's just, oh,

The Wins That Change Everything

Debbie Waidl

just hearing that and knowing that if we hadn't crossed paths, more than likely they would have kept doing the medication route, the Botox, the surgeries. I had one woman, her name is Sue, and she, how old is she? I want to say she's around my age, maybe like maybe 60, closer, a little closer to retirement. But anyway, she was about to have surgery. She spent $60,000 trying to end her migraines, tried everything, like out of the box things, oxygen therapy, stem cell, done it all. And she was at the point where she was gonna go in and have them cut nerves, permanently cut nerves because she didn't know what else to do. And she told, and she was like, I can't afford to do anything else. Are you kidding me? Well, after we chatted, she decided to give the program a try. And she's like, you know what? I'm not gonna tell my husband because how can I go tell him that I'm spending more money? Um, she goes, I'll beg for forgiveness later. She goes, but I promise you that I will shout this from the rooftops that this works. I don't really think it's gonna. I'm keeping my surgery appointment. So she kept it and she canceled it. And now she gets to shout from the rooftops. And now she just sent me photos of her skiing with her grandson, and they are planning a trip to Switzerland to ski. That's what lights me up, and that's what gets me every single day wanting to continue and share and let people know about this journey. Um, I am not, you know, someone who does well at marketing and all that to try to find people, but it's so worth it for me to step outside my comfort zone and learn how to do that. Not because, you know, I'm like, okay, I just want to grab all these people for me, but because I want people to know that you can make it you can make a difference in your life. I want people to experience that joy and get to go skiing in Switzerland and get to go to Ireland and get to be at their kids' wedding without pain. That is what lights me up.

Anita Mattu

And that's just in a way, pure love, simplicity, and and that's the thing, you know, you need to take that. Yeah. Yeah. So, Debbie, if there was one key takeaway you want every listener to walk away with today, what would that be?

Debbie Waidl

It's time to put yourself first. It is time to realize that your life is just as important as everyone else's. That if you want to be there for your kids, your friends, your family, your spouses, yourself, that you have to put yourself first. And it is not selfish. It is probably the least selfish thing that you will ever do in your life. You are worth whatever it takes to be the healthiest and happiest version of you. And trust me, when you do that, you will have a more fulfilling life. You will have the life that you want, and you'll be able to support everyone in the way that you want to. That is really that is at the top of all of this.

Anita Mattu

I love it. Absolutely love it. Thank you for sharing that.

Debbie Waidl

Oh, absolutely.

Anita Mattu

So, where can the listeners find you online? Your website?

Debbie Waidl

Yeah, so I spend the majority of my time on Facebook. I am in the Women's Migraine Freedom Group. That is the name. You just search for us. I'm also on Instagram, but we spend a lot of time on Facebook. Uh, YouTube. I also have a YouTube channel. As I mentioned, we have so many of those wonderful stories that people can go take a listen to. But come find us on Facebook because we share a lot of trainings over there. We have a lot of free resources. And we have our uh migraine sensitivity scorecard, which is a self-assessing scorecard that you can just get started on your own. Because I know sometimes you're like, oh my gosh, one more person, one more thing. I'm gonna try. Are you kidding me? You know, I've already done it all. You can do this yourself. You know, you join the group, my team will give it to you. You can actually take a peek to see where you're at. And then if you want some help, you have a team of women here ready to help you, but you're also putting yourself into a community of women just like you, so you don't feel alone anymore.

Anita Mattu

Debbie, that is brilliant. And all the um links

Where To Find Debbie

Anita Mattu

will be in the show notes. So, people listening, do please go ahead. You know, if there's somebody, if you haven't got migraines and there's someone you know, point them towards it. Yeah, you will be doing them a huge favor and just check it out for yourself and see. You never know what you might find out for your own health.

Debbie Waidl

That's right. And you don't know what you don't know. So it doesn't hurt to take a moment to see if that can save you years of not feeling well.

Anita Mattu

Thank you so much.

Debbie Waidl

Oh, thank you. This was wonderful.

Anita Mattu

So, Debbie, thank you so much for sharing your insightful wisdom and knowledge with us today. And by doing so, you've helped so many other people and truly made a difference. I'd really like to acknowledge you for that, Debbie. Thank you.

Debbie Waidl

Well, thank you, Anita, for giving me this opportunity to share. It's been my pleasure chatting with you today.

Anita Mattu

It's been an absolute pleasure. And with that said, we are all about create the courage to be feelers podcast here. What is your definition of courage?

Debbie Waidl

Hmm. My definition of courage is being able to do something that you know is hard, that is scary, that you think other people are gonna think you're crazy for, and doing it anyway. You know, just do it anyway. Put yourself first, get yourself out there, and don't worry. That fear is what fuels you. That's what makes you courageous. So don't shy away from things that are scary, that are different, because that's where the real magic happens. That's your courage is gonna drive you to be able to do amazing things in your life.