Self-Worth Over Wins: An Athlete’s Guide to Mental Health and Identity with Isaiah Neil

“Mental health often gets worse before it gets better—because you’re having hard conversations and making changes.” - Isaiah Neil

How can accepting your vulnerability—and creating a safe space for others to do the same—be the most powerful play you ever make, both in sports and in life?

Discover how former collegiate athlete and mental health advocate Isaiah Neil navigated crippling performance anxiety, injuries, and depression to find true self-worth, offering essential tools for young athletes to prioritise their mental well-being and create safe spaces for vulnerability.

Key Takeaway Insights and Tools 

• Vulnerability as Strength: The importance of being truly vulnerable and transparent about mental health struggles, which is critical for creating a safe space for expression within sports. (Approx. 05:30:00)
• Identifying the Mind-Body Link: Understanding that athletic performance issues and injuries are often intertwined with and exacerbated by deeper mental health challenges like depression. (Approx. 15:45:00)
• Reclaiming Self-Worth: The crucial shift in perspective to realize that your identity and self-worth surpass transient experiences or performance metrics, such as winning or losing a game. (Approx. 30:10:00)
• Tool/Resource: The Blue Shoes Initiative: Learn about Isaiah's advocacy work through the Blue Shoes initiative, which is dedicated to empowering youth with tools to understand and navigate their mental health challenges. (Approx. 40:05:00)
• Leaning on Support Systems: Practical advice on identifying what supports you already have in place and leaning on those systems—like family, friends, or trusted coaches—during moments of crisis. (Approx. 57:23:70)

Guest Bio

Isaiah Neil A former collegiate defensive lineman and compelling mental health advocate, Isaiah is the driving force behind the organization Blue Shoes. He shares his deeply personal journey from the pressure cooker of competitive sports—battling anxiety, injuries, and depression—to becoming a leading voice for vulnerability and empowering young athletes with tools to manage their mental health.

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/isaiahneil/

Content Warning

This episode discusses sensitive topics, including depression, anxiety, and performance pressure in sports. Listener discretion is advised.

Subscribe to It's an Inside Job wherever you get your podcasts to continue the conversation on mental fitness and internal growth.

Chapters

• 0:08 Introduction to Resilience
• 2:21 Meeting Isaiah Neal
• 4:11 Isaiah's Journey in Athletics
• 7:54 Mental Health Awakening
• 10:57 Life After Sports
• 15:56 The Pressure We Create
• 19:30 Understanding Identity
• 28:18 Conversations with Teammates
• 29:37 Insights from Isaiah
• 31:40 The Journey of Mental Health
• 34:29 Therapy as Discovery
• 35:56 The Role of Athletic Support
• 38:27 Teaching Young Athletes
• 50:11 Advice for Young Athletes
• 57:44 Final Thoughts and Stories
• 59:04 The Importance of Mental Health

Transcript

0:04

This is It's an Inside Job, and I'm your host, Jason Lim. This is the show where we explore the stories, strategies, and science behind growing resilience, nurturing well-being, and leading with intent. Because when it comes down to it, it's all an inside job. Music, Well, welcome back to a fresh new episode. Let's kick off with a question. Have you ever had a stretch where you looked fine on the surface, but you felt like you were running on fumes underneath? Well, I have. I'm sure all of us have. And it's tough to admit when the game, whether that's work, school or sport, well, it starts playing you. When the pressure spikes, do you grind harder? Do you work harder? Do you keep moving forward? Or do you tell someone what's actually going on? Well, my guest today is Isaiah Neal. He's a Canadian keynote speaker and mental health advocate, educating youth on mental health awareness and empowering them with a mindset of resiliency. Before he was speaking on the stage, he was competing on the football field for the Golden Bears at the University of Alberta. Isaiah now shares his story of mental health challenges to create keynote experiences for youth aged 12 to 15. Today, we cover a lot of ground when it comes to mental health and emotional well-being. when it comes to athletics, but which can be applied across the spectrum. I think my conversation today with Isaiah will open a lot of eyes. It'll awaken something in us. It will make us cognizant to the challenges that many young athletes face. And they don't have to be athletes, just young people in general, young adults. And sometimes how they can get stuck in their own head. And that sometimes they don't have the vernacular, the terminology, the vocabulary, to explain what's going on in their internal environment. So I hope Isaiah's story today, his experience and his knowledge and what he's picked up along his road, will create a blip on our mental radars to pick up the signal from the background noise, when the young people around us may be quietly suffering, may be quietly dealing with a lot of complexity that they don't know how to process. And so without further ado, let's slip into the stream and meet Isaiah Neal. Hey isaiah welcome to the show thanks for having me could we kick off the conversation by you introducing who you are and briefly what you do yeah for sure i wear a couple different hats but Right now, I'm currently in school in Canada at the University of Alberta in my bachelor's of general science. My major is biology. Minor is psychology. Finishing off my last two courses before I graduate. Outside of school, though, I am a keynote speaker that speaks on the topics of mental health and resiliency for age groups 12 to 25. And I also do some work with youth with disabilities as well. Yeah, this is this conversation. I've been looking forward to this conversation because it's part of a series where I talk to athletes and former athletes about mental health, their journey and the tribulations and the trials, the ups and downs, the wins and the losses of what brought them to their current space. Because I think this conversation is so relevant and it's a salient conversation that's needed to inform people about the world of athletics so we can have a greater understanding of what athletes go through and if when they are athletes when they obviously if they're injured or they retire and how the world of athletics has created sort of a cocoon and infrastructure a scaffolding around their life and then all of a sudden they're left hanging per se and it's like okay what now. So perhaps, Isaiah, perhaps you could, if we could rewind back to when you were an athlete and maybe tell us your story to why you and I are here today to speak, speaking. Yeah, absolutely. So I played football for a total of 14 years. I started off when I was nine years old, got introduced to it by a friend that also signed up for a local team. Thought I'd try it out and just stuck with it wasn't the greatest at it at first but slowly and surely got better played for most of my younger earlier years I said that I started at nine years old so I can't remember a childhood without sports when I got to high school obviously got a little bit more intense a little bit more serious that's the time of you know life that you're starting to think am I going to take this to a pro level do I want to go to university, For me, I was really the type of guy that just loved playing the game for what it was in the moment. I never had dreams of really going pro or even going to university. I just love playing for the man that was next to me or across from me. So when I got to high school is when I really started having challenges with my mental health. And that really was stemming from the pressure that I was putting on myself in athletics and academics. I was very focused on my academics and athletics. Wasn't much of a social guy. Didn't have too many friends. Didn't go out and party. And in my first grade 10 year, I got injured. Lost the majority of my season. Couldn't play. The next year came, thought, OK, this is going to be the year. And I broke my leg in a preseason game. So I lost my grade 11 season. And then grade 12 was like this even more immense pressure that I had felt even before, you know, starting high school on myself. And the most recent, like the most, I guess, vivid memory that I have of me struggling with my mental health is on. I was on a bus to a preseason game and I don't know, it just felt something was off. Like I was overly anxious. And there was like parts of that bus ride, I remember where my body was just kind of feeling numb. I was kind of having this like out of body experience. I was really hyperventilating. And I just told myself, you know, it's game day nerves. It's totally fine. But this would happen like every single game, that whole grade 12 season. And I just kept telling myself, ah, it's okay you know like it's just game day nerves just game day nerves and i made it through the season like that and after that season i got offered to go play for the university of alberta, And that's when it all blew up. So I got injured again. I got a concussion in my first year of university. And when I got that concussion, I like to say that I got diagnosed with a heavy dose of isolation because I was no longer allowed to be with my team. I was no longer allowed to really study. I couldn't even study if I wanted to because it would hurt my eyes or my brain, just headaches and things like that. And through that isolation, I became very, very depressed. and also anxious. So I'll put that as in there as well. And again, just didn't tell anyone, didn't think much of it, went on for about two months. And then the wake up call for me was when I started feeling suicidal. And so that was like, wow, like I'd never felt like that in my life. That was not game day nerves. That was not normal. Like there's nothing normal about suicidal ideation. And so that's when I finally reached out for help. And I reached out to a staff member in the athletics department and they referred me to a therapist that was my very first therapist didn't know really what to expect but just having a space to talk about what was going on was like the beginning of my healing and and really resolved a lot of the issues that I was having um because I was taking this all on my own like I didn't tell my coaches I didn't tell my teammates I didn't tell my parents I told no one and so just even opening up about it was enough to kind of get me out of this negative headspace. And slowly I recovered. So the next... I would say like six months were rough after that. It got better. And then the next season came and then it all went downhill again with COVID. Again, isolated, depression set in and then started having suicidal ideation. Saw a therapist online and then came out of it. Next year, same thing again. Anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation. I would say by the third year, my anxiety was really getting to a place where it was manifesting itself in a very physical way that I'd never experienced before I would hyperventilate get numb in my hands and toes and then I would faint and so I've honestly lost count of how many times this happened it's probably happened over dozens of times that I've fainted because of my anxiety and I just went through that for like three years because I just wanted to play And I was just trying to find a way just to pull myself together for every practice, pull myself together for every game. And I managed to do it until my last season. It was, I think, the second last week of the regular season. And I had my very first suicidal attempt. And that, again, was like a new wake-up call for me. I was like, you know, I've had these thoughts, but I've never actually acted on them. And so when I got to that place, I was like, I really got to reevaluate what I'm doing in my life and the pressure that I'm putting on myself, because it's going to literally take my life. And there's, you know, there's nothing about sports that is worth more than my life itself. So when I got to that place, I had to sit down with my coaches, had to sit down with my family and really make a hard decision and say, you know, this is this is done. I got to hang up the cleats. I need to step back and you know I had to even pull out of some of my classes um just to like. Settled down. And like, I was like broken, I was just torn apart, mentally, physically. So took some time, probably, I'd say three months to kind of just refocus, got back into school, stayed away from like any athletics. And, you know, through that whole time, I would say, the last three years before that, I was already very much in the mental health space. I was an advocate. I was speaking to youth, even when I was struggling. And when I left sport, that was like my new focus. Like I wanted to be a speaker. I wanted to continue advocating. And so I, That's when I branched out and I started speaking through my own business called Blue Shoes. And ever since that moment, you know, lots of people ask me, do I have regrets? Do I wish I could go back and play? And yeah, of course, I wish I could go back and play. But now that I'm able to use my lived experience and my experiences with mental health, depression, anxiety and suicidal ideation, it's been recovering and healing for myself. But also like such a big impact in the community and the people that I've been able to touch and reach and connect with is, you know, more than I could ever ask for. Do you mind if we rewind and maybe go back to the seeds of what led you down this road? I mean, towards having anxiety and depression and putting your stress on yourself. So you started your sojourn into the sport of football from grade 10. You were injured grade 11. You broke your leg and then grade 12. And then the first three years of university. So it was around six years you were in the game. And then I guess from grade 10 to 12, I don't think there was a grade 13. Was it back in my day? Okay. But from grade 10 to 12, a lot of this was you've kept isolated. It was in your head. You didn't share with your parents, your coach, your teammates, girlfriends, friends, or whatever. Right. Correct. I think for me at that time, it was really about not being a burden, number one. But I also think the other piece of it was like I didn't know how to talk about it. Like I didn't have the words mental health. I didn't have the words anxiety. I did not have the words depression in my vocabulary. I really just thought it was just the difference between a good mood and a bad mood or, you know, more so on a performance aspect, like me being a good student or a bad student or a good athlete or a bad athlete. And I had a very, you know, black and white picture about it all. So. Yeah. And that speaks to, because when I reflect back to my own high school days, I didn't think about, you know, those words didn't cross my, I didn't have that in my vocabulary. It wasn't part of my vernacular anxiety, mental health. You know, it was just, you know, everything was going okay. I never even thought about it. Right. And so the reason why I want to explore this with you, Isaiah, is that there may be kids right now that don't have that vocabulary or parents that start seeing a shift in the demeanor or the behavior or what have you in their kids who may be going down the field of professional sports or at least athletics per se. And just to sort of to talk about some of the maybe early signs but when you started feeling sort of the the pressure on yourself we all feel the pressure but I guess the pressure here was more of a negative sense or negative connotation that you were feeling or I had a meaning per se but was it linked initially with your injury or did you do you feel it was before your injury in grade 10. I personally think it was before. You know, if I really dig deep in my memory, I remember like being really anxious even when I was younger about game day. Practice was fine. The whole idea of sport was fine. But like something about game day, I just felt like overly anxious. And I feel like that just carried on. And, you know, people ask me, like, where did that pressure come from? And like, I really have to say that it's it was me like my parents didn't put that on me. My parents never told me I had to be in athletics. My parents had a motto of, you know, do your best. And that's like all you can really do. Like your best is good enough. And for me, it just it wasn't good enough. So that pressure was really for myself. So did you put a lot of sort of self-worth or self-value based upon your performance or an outcome of a game per se or how you performed in that game? Oh yeah like i i put a lot of you know pressure on myself not even just athletics but also academics of performing and like i did not understand the concept of like learning from failure it was just oh you failed so you must be no good or you failed and you never will be able to you know succeed, i think this speaks a lot to the the salient work of carol dweck she wrote a book on growth and Obviously, you probably know this growth and fixed mindset, and where the growth mindset is more focused on sort of the effort one puts in and right. And a fixed mindset, for those who may not know it, it's based on self-value or worth on performance or outcome. And it's, of course, you and I know, Isaiah, but maybe our listeners don't, is that outcome is so, we can't influence or control every aspect. Because there are going to be variables that are in play that we know we don't control, but we think we can control. And then there's going to be other variables that are not even known or they're on scene, which can influence the outcome of whatever performance it is. Because it was fascinating what you said, because during practice, that pressure wasn't so much there because obviously you were focusing on the effort. But there was a shift, it sounds like, when you move from practice to performance and your value at that particular moment shift. Because when it was game day then all of a sudden or am I sort of stretching the logic here, no no I definitely think you're right I think at a younger age it was like game day is when the lights are on you everyone's watching and that was very important to me and I think slowly. It changed when I got to a higher level in university obviously just because practice has taken a whole lot more serious in university because that is what gets you on the field on game day so it's like you got to perform well in practice to get you know on the field and I think, around that time that's when it started to shift like I would get through practices and it would be a good practice and it's like I wasn't even like happy about it it was more like I was relieved like I was like oh I made it through like I did well I can like you know rest to see another practice and I'll have to do it all over again but at least I made it through this one you know So he really took out the enjoyment. It took out the enjoyment. And so it was in your first year of university when you got, I think you said, a concussion that you went to therapy for the first time. Yeah. So I got a concussion and then, you know, things shook down with I couldn't go to practice, couldn't do school. And that's when I reached out when I started having suicidal ideation and I got referred to a therapist again. Like I didn't know what a therapist was. I didn't know. Like, honestly, that one kind of surprised me because I was in like psychology classes and I still wasn't understanding the concept of therapy. Like I didn't understand that that was a career that people made spaces for people to talk about hard things. Like that's really weird, you know? Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, and okay. And, and through that sort of talk therapy, what can you, if we rewound again, can you recall what was one of the major aha moments you had? I would say like visualizing what I was experiencing, like we would use a lot of analogies. I think one of the ones we used to use was, you know, as a student athlete, there's a lot of things going on. You're dealing with athletics, you're dealing with all your academics, plus things that just naturally happen in life, family, unfortunate circumstances, finances, figuring out where to live. And for us, it was like a pool with all these balls in it. And understanding that it's like, okay, there's lots of balls in this pool, but we can't pick them up all at the same time. We got to take them one at a time. And that was like, you know, when I started using those kinds of analogies and like really visualizing what I was experiencing rather than just feeling it in my head or in my chest, it like allowed me to navigate through the situation rather than be like smothered by it. So the analogies or metaphors that you may have used allowed you to change or shift perspective to reframe or re-attribute how you saw yourself? Correct. Absolutely. Okay. So that's fascinating. And I've seen that a lot working in clinical psychology, you know, back in the day with trauma and even now with clients in the corporate world. Um, so do you feel you had some sort of, sort of fixed identity or you were living to some fixed labels? I am a football player. I am a whatever, a quarterback or linebacker, what have you. I mean, could you speak a little to that? Yeah, I 100% had fixed identity. Like my identity was solely on being a student and an athlete. I was a student athlete and there was nothing else to it. And I feel like one of the things I always used to say, it's like, sometimes I'd have terms where school was going well and football wasn't. And then I'd have some terms where, you know, football was going well and school wasn't. And it was just kind of like my go-to saying of like, at least one of them is going right. You know, like if one thing's not going good, then at least the other one will. And that was really like showing me how binary my identity was. Like it was school and football, school and football. There was nothing else. There was no family aspect. There was no even cultural identity, like nothing at all. And I feel like that's like one of the things that I had to crack open in order to heal, to understand that, you know, after football, what, you know, what am I then? Like life doesn't just stop, right? So understanding and finding those things, even while I was still an athlete of who I was, what makes up my identity was so important. No, I just, I mean, performance is also, I was a university student too, and performance is that, it's the grades at the end of the day, at the end of the semester, right? In the football game, It's how you play. What were your stats and such? And so... You had a fixed identity back to athletics. I am a football player, right? And so when would you fall out of that identity? When would you fail to live up to the standards of that label that you would self-assign to yourself and also sign by being on a university team, which is, you know, quite a significant challenge to get onto. So, I mean, kudos for that, but maybe you can speak a little to that when did you fall out of that identity like you said okay i i didn't perform that day and then i'd like to know what how you would sort of self-flagellate per se you know in your in your head yeah um i mean for school i feel like it was very easy to say whether i did good or bad because the report card is the report card. Um i know i was never type the type of student to say i had to get like 90 or a 4.0 gpa it was more so like i want to see how i guess good i could be like obviously i want to get to grad school so i need to keep those grades up stay in my program things like that but um i guess i would i would see myself fail and you know obviously you get a bad grade um also when you see like other students get into internships, get other jobs that you want that you don't. And it's kind of like, oh, you're not good enough. In terms of athletics, I feel like that –. The one, the reason why I stumble on that one is because I don't feel like I created a rubric or a way to grade myself to even say whether I did good or bad. Right. Like if I get like, I don't know, six tackles in a game versus two, you know, it's pretty subjective. Like, was it a good team? Was it a bad team? You know, what were the, what were the plays? What were the circumstances that I was put into? So you really have to look at everything. And, you know, when I would sit down and grade things with my coach, you know, I would always grade out well with my coaches, things like that. But I think I was just never satisfied. And I feel like that's a normal feeling as an athlete. You are never satisfied. And so when you're never satisfied, you're never good enough. No matter how good you are on game day, it's not good enough because you want to be better. And so I don't feel like I set the milestones in my career and in my play to say, okay, we are getting better. Okay. We are getting better to actually sit back and say, okay, I am, I am doing well so that I didn't come out of game day feeling like, Oh, that was horrible. You know? Um, the other thing I was going to add on to that is, you know, sometimes I would tell myself, okay, this is what I want to see in this game. I want to get these stats. And by halftime I have all those stats and I would totally like. Pull out of the game mentally and so for the rest like the next half of the game my play was so flat because i just got to a point where i was like okay i got it done i'm relieved i i can go home now and it's like no you still have another half of game to play right like it doesn't stop and i feel like that really killed me as well like even if i had a goal it was like once i reached that goal i'm not even excited about the game anymore which is like you know that doesn't make sense either so hopefully that makes kind of sense because i think it's it's very you know i think it's very important to understand because when we get inside the head of an athlete and to understand how he or she defines certain things or how they don't define or how they don't set milestones or progression right it it allows us to understand some of the maybe the mental ecosystem of what that particular athlete is going through and what pushes to the point where they They're just sliding, right, mentally and emotionally and physiologically to the pressures, right? So what you were saying, Isaiah, is that even though when you sat down with your coaches and the coaches would give you good or great feedback on the game, that wasn't enough to comfort you or to satisfy you until, you know what, that was pretty good. I learned a lot there. I achieved that. I could have done better than that, but that's okay. But I'll do that in the next game in the next practice. Is that what I understand? But you didn't cross that sort of into that territory. You were constantly belligerent to yourself or you were constantly talking down to yourself. Or maybe you can walk me through that. Um, I definitely think I would talk down to myself at times. I don't feel like that was the sole thing. Um, I definitely feel like I am the type of person, even now that requires a lot of reassurance. Like if I don't hear that I'm doing well, then I don't feel like I'm doing well. And it's, it's, it's really horrible because in life, the reality is not everyone is going to be there to say, Hey, you're doing a good job. Um it'll happen at times but i was so dependent on it that it really like drove my mood or drove my perspective of whether i was doing good or bad so i would say it's the the mixture of like negative talk and as well the need for reassurance because i didn't have confidence in myself as a player sure and when you sought out therapy was that part of the sort of the infrastructure or Or that was part of the team? Those were some resources that they could? Yeah, I would say for our team, it was not super well funded and supported in terms of mental health. That being said, I feel like even though we didn't always have a therapist, there was always a coach that was open to the conversation, at least on my team. I know there was other teams where that could have never happened. But my coaches, they were very open to it. And I feel like in a way that was even more beneficial for myself than therapy, simply because when you are spending like six, like five to six hours every single day at a place, you want to make sure that the people that are there, you get along with and actually support you. Right. So I can go see my therapist for an hour. Right. But that's like an hour of my whole entire day. Now, if I have people around me for like five or six hours that are supporting me, that is completely different, right? Now, when I'm in therapy, it's no longer like... Uh, a break from the horrible people that I see that don't care about me. It's like, okay, these people that care about me are sustaining me. Now I can really dig into it with my therapist. Right. So it's, it's kind of a combo of, you know, resources being used. Just, just aside, I'm just curious, have you talked to, um, your former teammates, uh, if they had gone through certain challenges that you yourself had, I'm just curious. Yeah. Yeah. So honestly, usually I don't even have to bring up the conversation. I feel like because of my advocacy and like openness to speak about it, even online, lots of guys have come to me and said, hey, like what resources did you use or like how did you feel going through this? A big conversation I have is when guys want to leave the sport because they know their time is done or they're not having, you know, they're not enjoying the sport as much as they used to. And yeah we I have lots of those conversations and it's it's you know it's it's cool because I feel like wow like I've paved the path for some people to have these conversations and that's super rewarding but uh it's hard like you know what what do you say you know everyone's different and everyone's reason for leaving the game is going to be different so I give my best advice and kind of share my experience and it usually always helps to kind of just clear their mind because when you're in a state of making a hard decision like that or just going through tough times while you're playing, it's hard to think logically. It's hard to see outside of the situation because you're in the situation. So yeah, love doing that. In the first half of the conversation, Isaiah and I covered a lot of ground. So I'd like to spend a few moments now going over the four top insights that Isaiah shared with us. The first one is name what's happening. When we put words to the experience, anxiety, depression, overwhelm, well then the fog begins to lift. Naming turns vague weight into something real. And once it's real and it's tangible, well, it stops living in the shadows and it starts becoming something we can work with. That clarity is often the turning point between carrying it alone and letting support in. The next was most pressure is homemade. Isaiah's hardest push came from the inside, perfectionism, and he wore it like a mask of high standards. That matters because self-made pressure is the kind we can actually change. It's not locked in by our bosses, parents, or the scoreboard. Seeing that clearly prevents us from mistaking punishment for motivation. A third point was the joy to release which is a warning light. When enjoyment drains out and all that's left is relief. Man, I survived the practice, I survived the meeting, I survived the day. Well, we've crossed into threat mode. That state quietly erodes performance. It drains energy and it narrows our perspective. Catching that switch early, well, it protects both our results and our well-being. And the fourth point, clarity shrinks the spiral. Externalizing the load and defining what good means turns overwhelm into parts and progress into something you can feel. And without that clarity, even wins don't register. and dissatisfaction becomes the default. With it, momentum returns. And so does a more stable sense of self beyond any single role. And if there's a line that threads through all of this, it's Isaiah's you're worth more than the moment. Seeing ourselves that way changes how we carry pressure, how we measure a good day, and how we let others show up for us. So you also spoke to the sort of cycle of you know your first year you had a concussion then you sought out therapy that kind of resolved some issues in your head you kind of found buoyancy again and then this has happened two or three times to the point what does that say about therapy What does that say about mental health or the process of mental health that you've learned from your perspective? I would say that mental health, you know, when you're in a crisis or you're struggling is going to most oftentimes get worse before it gets better. And that's because you're having the hard conversations and there's probably some changes that you're going to have to make in life that are uncomfortable, things that you're going to have to change about your perspective that are not going to come easy. So, number one, it's going to get worse before it gets better. But the second thing is it's a journey and there is no telling how long it's going to be. When I first went to a therapist and I was finished, I was like, okay, I'm done. I'm fixed. And just using that word, I think is something that's also really harmful for people that are seeking therapy is like, you're going there to get fixed. And it's really not about that. Cause I mean, I've gone to a therapist when I'm like, my mental health is perfect. Like I, sometimes I'm like, why am I here? But I want to work through a challenge that I know is in my life or just learning that a lot of times that when I went to a therapist, it was like when I was already drowning and now I'll go to a therapist before I know I could drown. And that is like really the difference for me now. So it's going to get worse before it gets better. It's going to be up and down. And it's not about being fixed. Therapy is not about being fixed. It's I don't know what what you want to call it. I feel like everyone has a different word for it. For me, it's... I want to say like, it's, it's like discovering yourself. Like it's, it's a journey, like it's discovery rather than fixing. Well, that makes sense. Well said, well said, you know, I've had clients that, you know, the processes is like evolution. It's an evolution of the mindset, evolution of the thinking it's upgrading, right? It's building upon, it's complimenting how I I already think it's discovering, right? And in a sense, for some people, they've called it a renewal process. It's like renovating or rejuvenating such things. And I completely concur with what you're saying there, Isaiah. Different people will have different ways they define it. But to say that you're broken and you need to be fixed, again, that's not a very helpful label. But if we talk about adapting, evolving, discovering, learning, growing, then I think that's a much healthier way because all those words have a connotation of becoming a better you through the process of understanding some of the deep, doing some of the deep work to understand, you know, you know, because again, this is a side thing. Because a lot of the patterns that we sometimes develop, the habits, the ways of thinking, they've served a purpose in the past, right? They've helped us to buffer storms, to get through rough times. But the world moves on. We move on. You know, we mature in different ways and we grow in different ways. But sometimes those old patterns get stuck in our head, right? They're old ways of thinking where once they served us, but now in this new place that we find ourselves, they serve against us. And we don't understand sometimes the mechanisms. To some extent, it may be fixed labels or fixed identities that we've had that you've articulated and spoke quite eloquently about. We met through Emily. Emily Houston and she talks about building community absolutely I think you know one of the things that people don't understand is like athletic therapists the people that are taping you up you know seeing you before and after a game to get prepped for whatever you know injuries you may have and assessing you they do so much more than just physical health they do a lot of mental health because that is who you're seeing like most often in a facility as an athlete and if there's no one else to talk to like you can't talk to your coaches about everything all the time because there's a conflict of interest there like you can't you can't go to your coach and say hey i'm tired like oh like you know i don't feel like you know practicing today or playing today but you can tell that to your athletic therapist you know because they don't really have a say on the depth chart they don't um have any control there and so they're also looking out for your physical health and your physical health is connected to your mental health so it's it's like one of the safest spaces to talk about indeed and now what i'm seeing more is like athletic therapists and trainers doing mental health training so that they can actually have these conversations in a very um i guess supportive way rather than just like listening and not knowing what to do because. Because I know for me, my athletic therapist was like, I don't want to call her a clinical therapist or a psychologist or anything like that, but she was really my mental, like my number one mental health support. When something happened, that was the first person I was reaching out to. So I really think it's important that everyone on the team, staff, coaches, therapists, athletic therapists, take the time to learn about mental health. Enough so that you can at least have a conversation and know a couple of resources that are available so that people aren't struggling and you know drowning that's that's that's a very salient point you make i mean do you think young athletes when they're going through training you know they're on the pitch they're on the field what have you but you spoke to when you were in grade 10 11 12 you didn't have that in your vernacular such as um anxiety or mental health or depression. These words weren't part of your vocabulary. Do you think that should be something that should be spoken into the locker room with the coach and the team or what have you? Or maybe they're already doing that? Yeah, I think it definitely is going to and should look different. At a younger age, I feel like it's as simple as having coaches that encourage effort over just results and I feel like that is enough to be a space to teach and build a positive like mental framework as an athlete whereas when you're older obviously like as you're older you have different challenges and I don't want to call them more serious because you know a challenge is a challenge at any stage of life but i feel like maybe more professional supports like therapists on a team um in university or at a pro level is more needed rather than having that on like a on a youth team like a anywhere between like your teens or even like younger than that so. I'm going to throw a curveball at you. We're going to step into the time machine here and let's say jump 15 years into the future. You're 25 now, is it? 24, yeah. 24. Okay, let's say 10 years in the future. And you're 34 and you have a young boy and he's starting to go into whatever sport, baseball, football, whatever. And he goes and you start seeing some similar signs what advice would you give to your son or your daughter your daughter about how they should see themselves as an athlete, that they can learn from your experience so they don't have to go through the gauntlet like you did. I told you it was a curveball. Yeah, very big curveball. I mean, like, I think as a parent, one thing I'm like very worried about is I'm not a parent yet, but a future parent. I never want to assume what they're going through or why they're behaving that they're the way that they're behaving. So I'd always start off with a conversation of like, hey, like what is going on? And I know the other curveball in that is like, like, they're not going to tell you, right. They're not going to tell you. But I feel like one thing that parents and just society in general doesn't really understand is kids watch your actions more than anything. They may not always listen to what you say, but they watch what you do. And so personally, I feel like I would want to have like intentional challenges in my life, whether it's in an athletic or like physical form or even in a work or career form that I'm showing my kids, hey, you know, dad goes through challenges and this is how he does it. He doesn't do this. He does that. He doesn't do this. He does that. And I feel like role modeling is a really big key, even apart from like saying anything, right? Like, of course I'd want to say like, Hey, like that's just one play that you made. You know, it's not the whole game, you know, how can we get better? I can say all those things, but I feel like role modeling is my number one go-to when it comes to parenting. Because if mom and dad can't do it, then how am I going to do it? Right. No, well said, well articulated. I think that's a very solid point, is where action dictates more than words. Yeah, absolutely. Interesting. Fascinating. I'd like to fast, fast. Well, let's bring us back to the present. Time machine is still working here. I'd like to know a little more about Blue Shoes. You spoke to Blue Shoes. This is your platform. This is your company, I presume. Could you speak about how Blue Shoes connects your message with mental health and, you know, emotional well-being and resilience or what have you? Maybe you could speak more about your venture. Yeah, absolutely. So I started this in August of 2024. And before I started this, I was speaking with another organization called Jack.org. They're a charity in Canada that educates and empowers youth to speak to you. So they have a peer-to-peer connection philosophy of educating youth about mental health, literacy, and resources. And was with them for a while and really fell in love with just speaking in general, but also speaking about mental health. And... When I left sport, it was in 2023. So about a year later, I just, there was something in me that was like, you know, I can, I want to take what I've experienced and put a spin on it because with jack.org, I was able to share my lived experience, yada, yada, yada, give them like the go-to how-tos of mental health, but I wasn't able to interject the messages that I had learned and really wanted to share. And so the, you know, the main message that I came up with when I started this was you were worth more than the moment. And that was my, I guess, epiphany or my revelation that after I left sport, I'm more than an athlete. I'm more than a student. And that was the mindset that I wish I had that was holding me back so much. And so for me, when I look at youth today, it's like whether you're being bullied, there's youth that are immigrated to Canada and they have challenges, challenges with mom and dad at home, financial challenges that are out of their control. And I wanted to give youth this mindset that it's like you are worth more than all that. You know, just because you're being bullied today doesn't mean you can't be the president tomorrow. Just because, you know, things are rough at home right now doesn't mean like they're going to be that forever. And that was actually the beginning name of my company, which was Behind the Mask. Recently, though, it has changed. I've gone through rebranding in the last year. Couple of months. It's only been a year that we started, but wanted to change it up. And, uh, the reason why I changed it was one of the stories that I share is about a blue pair of shoes that I got from a coach. Um, it was, I think in my third year of university, about the time that I was really struggling with anxiety and was leaving the locker room, ran across this coach and we started talking and he asked me a really peculiar question. He said, what shoe size are you? And I said size 13 and sure enough next few days he comes by again and he gives me a pair of these blue shoes and I'm like are you serious like this is this is crazy and like I didn't really have any deep connection with his coach like he was just one of my coaches wasn't even my positional coach didn't talk to him much and you know for me in that moment it was like he may not see everything that I'm going through he may not know everything that I'm experiencing but just the fact that he chose to be kind was enough to make an impact and give me hope to stay tomorrow, right? Because I had times where I was like, I don't know if I want to live anymore. And that was enough to be like, hey, you know, I can keep going. You know, I may not care about myself, but someone else does. And that's enough for me right now. So I changed the name to Blue Shoes and still doing the same thing. I talked to youth about mental health and resiliency, ages roughly between 12 and 25. And yeah, like it's just the beginning. I've talked to a couple of schools here in Edmonton so far, done a lot of podcasts recently, been on a lot of different panel discussions and things like that. So it's really growing. I have some ideas. I don't want to reveal them yet. But yeah, it's just the beginning. Yeah. Well, thanks. You caught my next question. I was fascinated. It was like, why blue shoes? But thanks for that. That was a... It was an amazing story. I really liked that. I really liked that. I didn't see that one. Right. Yeah. Lots of people ask me and they're quite surprised by the story. So I'd like to link blue shoes back to something you said earlier about, you were talking about, um, I'm, I'm, I'm curious how you strike the harmony or maybe the balance between being vulnerable about telling your story while at the same time, um, I guess, holding space to hear or to have the strength for others to hear their stories. Good question. i for me storytelling in itself is recovery i know in some cases people don't like sharing their story because either it's traumatic or you don't want to reveal that kind of information um but for me it's it's really a a comfort zone and so because it's a comfort zone i feel like that is what enables me to hear other people's stories and not necessarily like compare my story to theirs, but I have a piece of empathy with me. It's like, you know, I remember when I was dealing with something, how would I want someone to react when I was telling them things like that? So I just try and model that and kind of put myself in their shoes without saying, well, my situation was worse or, oh, your situation is too bad. I can't deal with it. Right. There's similarities everywhere. So. And maybe that's the same thing. People or kids or students come up to you and when they talk to you they feel that same thing it's just that one thing that pulls them back from the abyss you know someone hearing their story validating their emotions someone they can relate to. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that is what people have told me as well. And after, you know, after I've spoken, they're like, wow, like, you know, I thought I was the only one going through it. But I see that you've also gone through something very similar as well. And I find, you know, some, you know, in general, usually when I'm speaking to adults, they're they're pretty censored about their experiences. But when you're working with kids, they lay it out flat. They don't hide any details. And so sometimes I get really caught off guard when I'm done speaking and they tell me things and I'm like, oh, OK, I don't know what to tell you. You know, it's it's hard stuff that they're going through. And you just got to try your best to relate and give them the best advice. But I think, Isaiah, sometimes it's maybe not even advising. Sometimes it may be just you or listening to them and that just that they can articulate their thoughts and emotions, concerns, worries, anxieties to someone who's been through some similar situation. Again, that pulls them back from the edge, right? Just someone listening to them, right? Absolutely. Yeah. That kind of leads me to my next question or the segues, you know, what kind of questions or concerns do you find that these young people most often share with you? I would say bullying is a big one. It's really starts with something that was said about them and it sticks with them. And I mean, that's to be expected at a young age, even an old age, but definitely young ages, you're developing years and what gets said about you really shapes and molds you. So I'd say bullying, any, anything that gets said about them, that's negative. The other one is just anxiety. Like that's the number one thing, not in where I live, But like across the world, anxiety is just through the roof. And that obviously has to do with social media and just the effects of like what COVID did to a generation of being isolated and not being always social. So, yeah, I think anxiety and bullying are the two biggest ones that I that I find all the time. So what practical tools or mindsets or skills do you try to leave students after your talks? Hmm so i would say when it comes to you know bullying it goes back to my main message which is you are worth more than a moment i actually share a story about when i got bullied and it was in elementary we played a pickup game of like flight football and i remember i got handed the ball and i dropped it and the other team scoops and then scores and someone on my team comes over one of my bullies at the time comes over to me and says, you suck. You're never going to be good at football. Why don't you just quit? And that was like, I think two years into playing. And when I look at it, it's actually the funniest story ever, because I ended up playing 14 years. I got to university and I was, I was pretty good. I mean, like, it's not a short statement to say I played at a university. Like that's pretty big. And so if I would have told myself that, or been able to show myself that at that age. Wow. Like what would be my reaction? Like, that's, that's crazy. So leaving them with the fact that what people say about you is, is really just that, like it ends at that, like, it's just something they said. It's not, it's not true just because they said it, it doesn't become a thing because they said it. And so one of the things that I really try to leave with them as best as possible is that message. You're worth more than the moment, whatever is happening today, it may be really bad right now but it's not going to determine your whole life you know when it comes to anxiety i love to just you know i don't like to be a therapist when i speak i don't like to give any like techniques and things like that i'll give breathing techniques and things like that but when it comes to anxiety i really just like to share to share my story and show them that, you know that it's i don't want to say normal but like it's okay like if you're feeling these feelings accept them and acknowledge them because i feel like that's the biggest thing that happens is you push your feelings out of the way and when it comes to anxiety i feel like that's one of the. Unless you actually address it, because there's obviously something triggering that anxiety that you haven't addressed and you need to address it before it blows up. And in my case, in my story, it blew up for me. I kept pushing it down, kept pushing it down and it blew up. So I feel like storytelling is my is one of my best techniques that I use when it comes to helping youth through those kind of situations and letting them know that you're worth more than the moment. No, I'd like to riff on that because I think that's very important. I mean, it's not just for young people. I know adults, you know, I'm clock in late fifties and I still know, and I, I'm sometimes fall into that trap where we push down and when we push down those emotions, they'll just come back even more ferocious. And the idea sometimes is to reframe what emotions are. And, you know, in my training, we never, we never talked about emotions as either negative or positive, bad or good. We talked about a valence. It's, you know, from feeling very good to feeling very uncomfortable or what have you. But all emotions, there are chemical recipes from physiology to psychology, and that show up in different ways. We can call it anxiety, adventure, journeying, whatever. We feel these different emotions, but they're a physiological chemical message because there's no grammar or syntax from body to brain. Our brains have grammar and syntax. But to address those emotions, as uncomfortable as they are, there's a message there. Now, sometimes that message is convoluted and is wrong, but it's still to address it, right? Try to unpack it, what's there, and then it dissipates. It just evaporates, per se, because a message is being received, right? Even if it's a false or an incomplete message, at least it's being received and something's being done with it. And so I completely concur with you. You know, anxiety is normal. Anxiety comes up, address it in whatever way. Storytelling is an excellent way, sometimes by telling it to someone. I just wanted to say that because I think. Irregardless, most people will want to hide away from certain emotions or push them away. And sometimes at that moment, maybe that is the best thing. But at some point when you're feeling more buoyant or more stable, maybe that's the time to address it. And if you feel the emotions too much, then I think that's when maybe finding a mental professional can really, really make the difference. Absolutely. And that's near the end of all my talks. That's what I really push towards is these are the resources that you can reach out to for that more serious and professional help. This is just the start of it. And I feel like what I'm providing is really like that. That's just it. Like it's just the start of it. And it's allowing people to reach out that probably normally wouldn't reach out. So if you could, if there's a young athlete or athlete or just someone in general that. Listening to our conversation right now, Isaiah, what would you want them to hear first if we have not already covered that in our conversation? Yeah, I would say, you know, like enjoy every moment of sport, the good, the bad. I feel like as athletes, we get so caught up on the next thing or, you know, being the best that we totally forget, like, just have fun. Like it's a sport. It's supposed to be fun. You're supposed to have a good time. And I feel like too often coaches have to remind their athletes like, hey, just go out there and have fun, like have a good time. And it sounds so dumb. It's like, you know, why would we even be playing this game if we weren't having fun? So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing would be like I'm going to run my message again is you're worth more than the moment. Like this is just first and foremost, athletics is just a moment of your life and it feels like the world right now. but it's really just a moment of your life. But also the smaller moments within that, like each play, you know, each goal you score or each goal you defend, like that is just a moment. And there's more, there's more to you and there's more moments to come. Don't get entrapped by that. And the last thing I'll leave is you're not weak if you reach out for help. And in athletics, it's always about being tough, being mentally fortified. But one thing that I've learned is resiliency is not like a static skill. You're not born with it or not born with it. You're not born with a lot or a little. It's a skill that is developed and it's dependent on the people that you have around you. If you don't have a support system around you, I don't care how mentally fortified you feel like you are or how tough you are, you are not going to last very long because you don't have anything to support you. So whether it's, you know, reaching out and finding those supports or really, you know, identifying what supports you already have and leaning on them even more. You know, do it. You're not weak for it. It's okay. Well said. Well said, Isaiah. We are coming close to the top of the hour. We've covered a lot of ground, you being very kind and very open to share your vulnerabilities and the struggles you went through to where you are now. Is there any last piece of advice or suggestions or something you'd like to say to leave with our listeners today? No, I'll just say like, thank you so much for having me. And, you know, if you're listening to this right now and you have a story, I wouldn't even say if you have a story, everyone has a story, you know, share it. Like it's not about whether it's good enough of a story or there's not enough bad pieces in it for it to be valuable. Every story is valuable. And I really strongly encourage people to share their story because you really don't know who it can touch. I spent a lot of time scripting things up and, you know, carefully organizing my words. And I feel like this is really going to hit. And it's sometimes the things that I thought would never hit someone that really do hit them and really transform their life. So yeah, everyone's got a story and please share it. Well, Isaiah, thank you very much for a brilliant conversation today. I've learned a lot and I hope even if we just reach one person, pull them back from the edge, you know, get them to think about something. Well, then I think we've put a big checkmark beside this conversation. Absolutely. I think one of the major things I took away from this conversation is that we need to treat mental health like training and not triage. Not a dramatic rescue once a semester, but steady attention in the ordinary days. And underneath that rhythm is the line Isaiah keeps close. You're worth more than the moment. Not your last result, not your worst week, not the one story you tell about yourself when you're tired. Why that matters? Most spirals don't announce themselves. They build quietly, tight chest, short breath, chasing relief instead of feeling any joy in the work. When we name what's real, when we stop pretending the pressure is coming from out there, if it's actually in here, when we make good clear enough to recognize. We protect both performance and the person doing it. That's a shift from white knuckle survival to something you can build on if you lead a team a classroom a family this is your lane too people copy what you model not what you say make room for honest check-ins notice the small tells offer steadiness before advice if you're an athlete a student or anyone living inside a scoreboard widen the frame you're not just the one role trying to earn its keep, you're a whole person. And the way you carry pressure should reflect that. Isaiah, thank you very much for the candor, the courage, and the work you're doing with Blue Shoes to put real language and real hope in front of young people. And man, that matters. And if this conversation helped, pass it on to someone who could use a steady voice today. And thank you for allowing me to be part of your week. And until next time we meet. Keep well, keep strong, and we'll speak soon.