Whole Foods Market, Planet Organic, Ocado UK, Marks and Spencer, Tesco, Costco… these are some of the big names that Kathryn Bricken has won listings in for her incredible cookie dough products.
Pretty impressive, don't you think?
Kathryn chatted to me about how she's scaled her dough product from her London based factory in just a few short years and right now is about to expand her reach further by launching into BENELUX and France, and then in 2023, into her country of origin, the USA.
In this episode, you'll be spoilt for choice for a real insider’s knowledge on what it takes to scale a chilled product, especially as Kathryn has now moved into ready-to-eat product lines which means even more production compliance requirements.
Here's some of what you'll learn:
🍪 Co-manufacturer versus in-house production.
🍪 How to manage the fun but complex NPD process.
🍪 Raising money and sharing your company with investors.
🍪 Winning retailer after retailer and what the secret is.
Don't miss this one!
For further help refining YOUR wholesale offer, join me for ‘Money For Jam’, my FREE masterclass, and learn my 6-pillar pitching framework to help you stand out from the crowd and land more wholesale accounts. The last class is today!
LINKS & RESOURCES
If you haven’t listened to episode 35 (35.56 mins), Digitising your wholesale strategy, listen here.
And, I invite you to come and join my community of female foodpreneurs, and catch up on the conversations, in Kiosk. For Women in Food and Drink, my free Facebook group.
This episode is brought to you by “Money For Jam”, my FREE masterclass helping you stand out from the crowd and land more wholesale accounts.
This episode is brought to you by Foodpreneurs Festival, bringing packaged food & drink brand owners, retail buyers, media & industry experts together under one roof.
Foodpreneurs Festival on May 17 in Sydney, includes a packed schedule of events, including:
Whether you’re new to the food and drink industry, or a seasoned Foodpreneur, get ready for an epic celebration of all things food and drink at the 2024 Festival!
But that’s not all! In an opportunity that’s 64 times bigger than last year, Foodpreneurs Festival is hosting a thrilling event for packaged food & drink brand owners to take their shot* at coming face-to-face with retail buyers and getting their products listed on retail shelves.
Tickets are now on sale via Eventbrite until sold out.
* Terms & conditions apply. See website for the details.
Whole Foods Market, Planet Organic, Ocado UK, Marks and Spencer, Tesco, Costco… these are some of the big names that Kathryn Bricken has won listings in for her incredible cookie dough products.
Pretty impressive, don't you think?
Kathryn chatted to me about how she's scaled her dough product from her London based factory in just a few short years and right now is about to expand her reach further by launching into BENELUX and France, and then in 2023, into her country of origin, the USA.
In this episode, you'll be spoilt for choice for a real insider’s knowledge on what it takes to scale a chilled product, especially as Kathryn has now moved into ready-to-eat product lines which means even more production compliance requirements.
Here's some of what you'll learn:
🍪 Co-manufacturer versus in-house production.
🍪 How to manage the fun but complex NPD process.
🍪 Raising money and sharing your company with investors.
🍪 Winning retailer after retailer and what the secret is.
Don't miss this one!
For further help refining YOUR wholesale offer, join me for ‘Money For Jam’, my FREE masterclass, and learn my 6-pillar pitching framework to help you stand out from the crowd and land more wholesale accounts. The last class is today!
LINKS & RESOURCES
If you haven’t listened to episode 35 (35.56 mins), Digitising your wholesale strategy, listen here.
And, I invite you to come and join my community of female foodpreneurs, and catch up on the conversations, in Kiosk. For Women in Food and Drink, my free Facebook group.
This episode is brought to you by “Money For Jam”, my FREE masterclass helping you stand out from the crowd and land more wholesale accounts.
This episode is brought to you by Foodpreneurs Festival, bringing packaged food & drink brand owners, retail buyers, media & industry experts together under one roof.
Foodpreneurs Festival on May 17 in Sydney, includes a packed schedule of events, including:
Whether you’re new to the food and drink industry, or a seasoned Foodpreneur, get ready for an epic celebration of all things food and drink at the 2024 Festival!
But that’s not all! In an opportunity that’s 64 times bigger than last year, Foodpreneurs Festival is hosting a thrilling event for packaged food & drink brand owners to take their shot* at coming face-to-face with retail buyers and getting their products listed on retail shelves.
Tickets are now on sale via Eventbrite until sold out.
* Terms & conditions apply. See website for the details.
This is the Foodpreneur With Chelsea Ford Podcast. Welcome foodpreneurs to episode number 36. You're in for a real cookie dough kind of treat. Today I'm chatting with Doughlicious founder and creative powerhouse Kathryn Bricken. I met Kathryn when I was in London in July, speaking at the Bread and Jam Food Founders Festival. I interviewed her then about scaling Doughlicious. And in today's conversation, you'll get an insider's perspective on what happens when the buyer from Whole Foods knocks on your door and you build yourself a factory to make cookie dough, then swiftly get listed in one retailer after another and negotiate investment for up to 48% of your company, enabling you to scale into new markets and develop new product lines. This episode is brought to you by Foodpreneurs Formula®, my coaching program to help you scale. And my free masterclass, Money for Jam, helping you stand out from the crowd and land more wholesale accounts. If you want your product on more supermarket shelves at this time of increasing competition and buyer non-responsiveness, join me live and learn my proven six pillar pitching framework to get more buyers saying yes, you've missed one class already and I'm doing just one more. Click the link in the show notes to save your seat, but be quick. That last class is today.
Hi, I'm Chelsea Ford Award-winning food and drink business expert, head coach of the acclaimed program for women Foodpreneurs Formula®, and your host for this, the Foodpreneur podcast.
If you're a packaged food and drink business owner, tune in with me each week because I'm going to help you land more accounts, get in more consumer baskets, and help you put more money in your pocket for every product you sell. In each episode, I'm going to tap into my 30 years of experience leading sales, marketing, and finance teams for big and small food and drink brands to give you coaching tips that will help you take your packaged food or drink business to new heights. I know what works and I know what doesn't. So I'm going to share with you industry tools and insider knowledge that are next to impossible for small businesses to access. And from time to time I'll dive into my little black book to bring you interviews with hard to reach specialists who will help solve those pesky industry specific problems like distribution that I know you've been losing. Way too much sleepover. So roll up your sleeves, foodpreneurs, because you are about to enter a no fluff zone, I'm bringing my A game so you can reach yours no matter where you are, whether it's in your kitchen, coordinating your deliveries, or on your way to a buyer meeting. Listen up because we're about to set the path for you to secure your next best stock, increase your sales and put more money in your pocket. This is the Foodpreneur With Chelsea Ford podcast.
Kathryn. So good to see you and hear you again. We met in London a couple of months ago. Hello.
Hi, how are you Chelsea?
I am, I'm well. Tell a story of Doughlicious and why you started it and how you started it.
Yeah, so as, as you just mentioned, it's Doughlicious and it's a, we started as ready to bake gourmet cookie dough company that we figured that cookie Dough had been around for a long time and people loved it. People knew it, but there was something better out there, something more interesting than what was on the marketplace. And being American and moving to the uk there was definitely the need for something more because nobody had tapped into that market. And a friend actually came to me and said, Can you just make me a really good chocolate chip cookie? And I was like, Yeah, of course I can do that and I'm gonna make it better. So we decided to make it healthier to not use any white flowers. We decided to not use any white sugars and play around with it.
So it still tastes amazing. And actually our goal was to become the most amazing tasting cookie that happened to be gluten free and happened to be free from other things too, free from the nasties. So we started super small, just I would take these dough, the dough and ball it and put it in Ziploc bags and in the meantime gave was giving myself major carpal tunnel syndrome from all the, the balling. And and people would come to get their dough. So we would put it at a art gallery in Knightsbridge and just send out an email saying, you know, come and get your cookie dough. And then it just started to grow and grow. And before we knew it, we were looking for a smaller place to manufacture because we couldn't do it out of our kitchens anymore. So we found a kitchen in Batter sea that would make it, and it was a group of Italians and Italians like to do everything their way, not your way.
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So they changed the shape, changed the, the recipe slightly and it just, it bothered me so much that I was like, Okay, this isn't gonna happen cuz I'm in control, <laugh>. So I took it back and I decided to open my another little small place and hire, buy machines and hire people. And and that worked. And that's when we first were noticed by Whole Foods and Planet Organic. So super excited, decided like, this is my, this is my time, this is when I'm, it's gonna go big. And I got the packaging, I did everything. And Whole Foods came to me and they're like, We love the product, but we don't like your packaging and it's not gonna work for us. So I'm like, But, but, but, but because I had invested in this packaging and so why was it gonna work? Well, what
Didn't they like about it?
It was in a pouch so it wouldn't stand on shelf perfectly because the gu it was too small and it, and this is in a chill right in a, in a freezer on
The freezer
Started frozen and it wouldn't, so it wouldn't stand on shelf and then it wouldn't sit in a, well because it wasn't flat. So like, think of green peas. Green peas can manipulate them so it'll sit flat Yeah. Where these do balls. And the gusset was on one end and the closure on the other, so it wouldn't sit flat. They would slide around, they would look sloppy. So, okay, so now what do I do? Well, I contact Acado, which is an online supermarket in the uk. And with Acado I could, they didn't, they didn't have any shelves because they were all behind the scenes, so people would just get their delivery in their bag. So it was perfect. Soca took us and we started selling on avocado. And in the meantime I was like, Okay, I'm getting it through some of these pouches at least. So we were able to ship and it was a frozen, all frozen supply chain and
Ing and do,
Sorry,
Has that been challenging? Frozen supply chain?
Yes. Well, it was, it was in the beginning, but now we're just so used to it that that's, that's pretty much what we do. Yeah. So all, all our pro all our products start frozen. And what I love about Frozen is Frozen has grown so much in the UK with people are now really realizing less waste. Frozen, it's, it frozen is freshest because it's frozen at the time of it's when it's made mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So it has actually a longer shelf life and and tastes better and less food waste.
But let's just back it up for a moment. When you say like, everybody listenings noticing that you just skimmed over our Whole Foods and then planted organic noticed Right. And said it was delicious and amazing and we had to range you so back at right Up. How did they notice you? And yes, it was delicious, but where were they getting it at these small stores that you were in or at the art galleries that you were doing Popups or what? Talk us through that and building the relationship with the retailer at Whole Foods and or Planet Organic.
Right. Well, Whole Foods was actually really, really helpful because they decided there was a man there named Daniel who's not there anymore, but he decided that he he liked to help brands and so he wrote me an email and outlined everything I needed to do to get it into Whole Foods. Like, Okay, we're gonna watch you. This is what you need to do. You need to change your packaging, you need to have your barcode most likely on one of these sides, bring it to us to scan. When you have your packaging, we'll check it on the shelf, see how it, it looks. So he kind of took us as a pet project, which now I know I'm jumping around, but I'm kind of going into things that we probably won't touch later. Now. Actually, Whole Foods has started a system and they have people called Foragers.
So if anybody's listening and they do have a brand and they wanna get into Whole Foods mm-hmm. They can meet one of their forgers. And there's foragers are, are pretty well I say global, but I guess more the US and UK right now. Mm. Where Whole Foods is. But they help small brands grow within Whole Foods, and they'll help you figure out what you're doing wrong, what you need to do, just because they like your project product. And they'll help they'll help you bri they'll, they'll kind of find you and bring you in.
Mm. And so Daniel, when you, So this is what about five, five years ago with Daniel here, He just, he just happened to notice you and he held your hand and took you onto his wing,
Right? Yes, exactly. Wow. Planet Organic was a different story. They said Go organic,
Organic. What? I can't, you know, just because I now, hence we do have organic certification. We've, we do have organic products, but at the time it was, you know, to try to source these ingredients and try to figure it all out when you're small is very difficult. And thinking organic, I just thought, Oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm already expensive because I didn't have a lot of volume mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So the ingredients I were buying were at a premium. And it, there was no way I could buy all organic.
So with the, your own manufacturing, you know, often foodpreneurs get to a point maybe 24 months in, give or take, and they're at that fork in the road of whether or not they'll continue to manufacture themselves or they're outsourced to a contract manufacturer. And there's those questions around, you know, shouldn't, should I, shouldn't I, all the kind of question marks. So for you, you call yourself a control freak have in the last five years, any of that thinking changed in that now you wish you did outsource it because you know, you are so much bigger. I mean, you are a multimillion pound turnover business,
Right? Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I meet people now that have contract manufacturers mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and I'm always like, Oh, maybe I should have done that. Because a lot of them are profitable, but they don't, they, they don't, they can't create N P D, they have zero control. They have to do what their manufacturer wants to do, what he, what he's capable of, whether it's machinery or within a certain materials. Yeah. Materials, allergens. So somebody I love, who I think you guys know is Annabel Carmel. Do you know she say she's a children's chef has cookbooks and she's, I think she sells in Australia too. You have to look her up. I
Will.
Yeah. But she came to me to make one of her products and I was like, Well, why can't you just make it? And and, and I'm like, because I don't make products for anybody but myself and only mns mns, they're my only other person that I'll make products for. Yep. But she was like, Oh, because I can't do, I can't do new products easily with this contract manufacturer. And, and but she was, then she went on to tell me like how much money she makes, and I was like, Oh, I don't make, right now, I don't make any money <laugh> and because of the factory mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So, you know, you have to weigh it. Would I do anything different? Probably not, just because I wouldn't have found somebody who could have done it all. And, and then I've lo I would lose control. Mm. So last week we got brc
Okay.
Certification in our factory, which is the highest accolade in food manufacturing. And I'm so proud of us. Like, I'm so proud that we've, we've been able to achieve that. That we went in basically four years. We went from nothing to salsa to brc.
You've done incredibly well. I mean, when, when you took congratulations on SALSA and brc, but also talking about N P D and having the control over that with, because you manufacture your own, you, you launched what, two years ago? Doughchi?
So let's talk about that and also your, your range, like the savory range as well that you're doing now. I think that's really so exciting. Like the level of N P D and flavor variants that you have and that come from your head is just insane. It's amazing.
Yeah. Well, and sometimes they're good and sometimes they're bad because the bandwidth, you know, and the time it takes for N P D, So I am trying to control myself because it's, but we, we are, we're an exciting team and we, we do love N P D. So yeah, we, we are super excited that we've had our, we had our cookie dough. We, we have I think we, one, we have eight flavors of our cookie dough, which range in vegan, gluten-free, and just regular gluten-free. But we do everything from maa white chocolate to chocolate triple chip bespoke for TROs. Our best seller is always chocolate chip Chelsea. Yeah. Like, it's, it's crazy. We even in Costco, we played around because they, I was pushing for a second skew. Costco usually takes one skew per brand unless it's something, you know, completely different.
So let's just say, I mean, they, they usually take in, in the deli, they would only take one flavor cookie dough. Sometimes I see pots and co with two flavors and I'm always like, Hmm. But actually it's just, it's just one flavor. So we had our chocolate chip cookie dough in there and then they we pushed and said, Oh, but our double chocolate's so good. It's so good. It's so good. And they're like, Okay, fine, let's switch it out and see how it does. Literally the sales were half, there are not as many people that wanted, I, maybe they're just not chocoholics, I don't know what it is, but our,
That's so foreign to me. All I, I, I can't get enough chocolate. And the better the chocolate, the more the chocolate the better.
Yeah. Well, chocolate chip I think is just a globally known cookie that everybody loves. So sure enough, they were like, Okay, you're at the bottom of the dessert category, What are you gonna do? Like we, this is not sustainable. I'm like, Okay, let's put the chocolate chip back in. So I redid the packaging, put the chocolate chip back in our sales, like quadrupled it's crazy right's. So crazy. Like there's, I don't know, I don't think it's the packaging. We slightly changed the packaging which would be a whole nother investigation and interesting investigation to see like how packaging so much can change. I mean, I, we know it can change per a, a customer's perception and you only have two seconds for them to make that dec that purchase decision. So maybe it was the packaging, but yes. So Chocolate chip is just super popular and well known. And then, so there's Cookie do, but also in Costco, which is leading me to, is the new product that we created, which is Doci. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So we
A
Yeah, thank you. It's really, really nice. And actually our double now there, our double chocolate, our chocolate TR is in Costco and that does really well. However, yesterday I had a meeting with them and they wanna look at moving in chocolate chip and kind of switching in and out. So just to see what happens. So that'll be exciting. And then Imagine
Mango, did you say?
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> a mango. Yes. So
I imagine when you talk data about the chocolate chip in other retailers, other retailers and buyers just sit up and take notice. I mean, it's kind of a no brainer. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Total no brainer. So, and, and you can definitely see sales and TROs of chocolate chip to, I mean, definitely chocolate chip is, is a, is a favorite. So now you know why when you go to some countries like the US you see a lot of chocolate chip and not many other flavors. Maybe you'll see a sugar cookie or a sticker doodle, but you don't see a lot of variation. And probably because shelf space is more valuable.
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,
I mean, not that it's not in the uk, but they're just definitely more open to Oh, tissue. Yeah. Other flavors. So, so we launched Doci, which is really exciting because we took the traditional Japanese mochi that's been around for a long time, whether it's been with red bean paste in it with a nut butter. And recently there's been the surge, I guess in the last maybe eight years, the surge of ice cream mochi mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so we created a doche, which is, we took our cookie dough, and at first we started just with like, kind of a regular cookie dough, but it wasn't gonna stretch. So we had to play with the recipe to get it to be stretchable enough to work in the machine and be able to insert ice cream in the middle. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So we've now perfected as of last November, I feel when we launched on Al Avocado with the Doci the perfect combination of cookie dough and ice cream. And I've learned so much about ice cream along the way. I never thought I would be an ice cream kosso, but but I guess that's what happens when you have to eat it three times a day. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner
<Laugh>. And that's a collaboration with another provider, isn't it? With another,
So we just, we don't make our own ice cream, we just bring it in. So we use three different suppliers and are very happy with them. And look for the ones that can make the best flavor. And surprisingly, you might have one, one company that's really good at vegan flavors and the other one will try and they're just so bad, like, it's, so we have one company that really excels with vegan. You would never know their vegan ice creams
That creamy and smooth. Yeah.
Super creamy, smooth, no strange taste. But then we tasted some from another supplier that's, you know, an amazing supplier and, and they taste not good at all. Yeah. So it's just, I mean, everybody has their, their skill set. Right.
So how many people in your business do the are on the decision making tasting panel when you've got a new product or a flavor variation? Who's involved in that?
So we usually have four people, and then we go and open it to the broader, So we have our coo, which is, she's very unique because she has a a baking technology background, but then also went to Columbia University in the States and got her PhD in systems controls. So she's, yeah. So she's very thoughtful, but also understands food technology. Okay. And and then we have our an an A chef that helps us with new product development flow. So she's always tasting and she's really good at tweaking the recipes and understanding the food science behind it and what's what reactions are happening and why one thing is working and another thing's not. And then we have our factory manager, and he actually is, he comes from ice cream, so gelato, and he's Italian. So he, he's has a nice pallet and usually can work where I'm more the dough person. He knows more the ice cream. And why, I mean, ice cream's very interesting because you would never know the way ev just adjusting the, the fat and the sugars can change the whole creamy complexity. I mean, in just slight little tweaks
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so what changes did you have to make to your factory or your facility when you brought in ice cream? Like, that must have been a massive change.
Well, good question. Yes. So we had to where we were a ready to bake, so we were not ready to eat factory, go. Going into ready to eat is a lot more stricter controls. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we had to, I mean, it probably spend about, about, I'm just about 50,000 to get it to where it was be RRC ready as a ready to eat factory. So different machines, walls skirting controlling,
Different
Controlling, Yes. So putting in even down to ventilation, air flows, so you know how air would flow from one room to the next, how the air would push out come in. I mean, it was, it was really quite extensive. And at one point I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm not gonna do this anymore. But but now it's, it's good. It's where it is. We had MNS technical person in there yesterday, you know, MNS thinks differently than brc. So there's some, a couple changes she would like to see because we do make, for Marks and Spencer's a Doci and they call it mini Bites.
Yeah. So for those who, who maybe didn't pick that up, that's private label for mns, right?
Yes.
Yes. So private label the decision to take on private label. What, how many years ago was that?
So we took on Marks and Spencers about a year and a half ago. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> year and a half. And we started with our own product in there during Covid. So they asked us to put our cookie dough in there in the chilled. So again, all of our supply chain starts frozen, and we temper into chilled for customers that want it chilled. So it goes into the chillers for usually some of the smaller ones, not the multiples. So Whole Foods puts in the chiller. And this is the cookie dough. Doci obviously is always frozen. Yeah. Costco chilled Marks and Spencers, however, in s or we're launching in Tesco end of October. Wow. So that'll all be frozen, which again, like I believe in Frozen. I don't, I think that the problem with a lot of people is they buy it chilled and then they take home and freeze it themselves. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So why not just start with Frozen?
Well, why don't they, why do they whatever you call it, go from frozen to chiller in some of those smaller retailers? Is it because it's safe?
Oh. So why do they like it chilled? Yeah.
Why do they put it in the chiller rather than the freezer? Is it because they don't have freezer space?
It's freezer space and sometimes they the perception is that chilled food is a premium.
All right. I, I agree with you though. I think the perception of Frozen has really changed over the last few years that people understand Snap frozen
Right.
Milk in the freshness.
Yeah. A lot of the stores around here are redoing their stores and increasing their frozen food space. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> just because, I mean, in the UK I do think food waste is a problem. And you know, I, and I see it like, I see it with myself. Like sometimes you just, you buy something and you can't get to it, but if it was frozen, then you just get to it when you wanna get to it.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
So hopefully that will continue to grow and that mindset
When, when you have a new product, because you have relationships with some of these incredible retailers, when you have a new product to not a, not a flavor variation, but an actual new line, do you get the red carpet rolled out for you? Or is it hard pitching to start from scratch? <Laugh>,
Well, usually, I mean, we've been really lucky, but it, it's, we've been lucky that we've, we've have formed relationships with a lot of the smaller Whole Foods planet, organic. They know when things are coming and we, we love to get their opinion. Yesterday, I'm just going back to Costco cuz I was there yesterday. Yesterday I took them our super stuffed, which is going to be a heat and eat. So we're taking our amazing cookie dough. We're stuffing a it with more cookie dough, but highly inclusion. So we're taking our vegan chocolate chip and we're stuffing it with a double chocolate that has a lot, a lot of chocolate in it. And so it almost becomes a soft gooey centre. And and we're calling that the original chocolate chip super stuffed. And then we've done it also, we have a Churro one, which is a cinnamon cookie with a milk chocolate in the middle.
And that one's not vegan. The chocolate chip is vegan. So I took it to them yesterday to get their opinions and I'm like, Okay, this is how we're gonna do it. Now that we have a new part of our factory, that we have ovens and we can bake. We're gonna bake it to a point, freeze it, and then sell it so the customer can just grab and go. Each one will be individually flow wrapped. You can take it with you to lunch, you can take it on the, on, on a bicycle ride. You can, you know, take it to work, whatever you'd like to do. So to get their opinions. And they were very intrigued and loved it. So I'm, I'm lucky that I, we have that relationship. But on the flip side, this is some of the businesses the buyers move around. Yeah. So when you, when you start with one buyer, they, they move, they move. I can't even tell you how many people we've been through in Mars and Spencers that have been our, like our buyers switched, our developers switched, our techno technologist switched. So the minute you get to know one and you really like them, they're gone.
Yeah. It's frustrating, isn't it?
<Laugh> Yeah. A lot of times you'll form relationships and they'll still stay in touch with you. And the other important thing to note is like a lot of people they move, but sometimes they move to other businesses and they'll come back around. So our beautiful buyer from assistant buyer from Selfridges all of a sudden appeared at Waitress. And so you just, I think the lesson in life is always be nice, always be accommodating, be happy, get along with everybody because you never know.
Yeah. Yeah. And also maybe know more than just the buyer or the assistant buyer in that one department. If you can build out a network within their Yes. Buying area much better.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, like I said, we've been super lucky. Oh, now one of my or the head buyer from Suffrages is now at Whole Foods.
Perfect.
So again, it's just crazy how they, they all get a get around, move around. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's a lot of fun when they pop up and they know you and they're very supportive of your brand. And, and the other thing is, I think they've seen how hard we've worked as, as a brand. We're always supportive of them too. So if they need us to do sampling, they need us to do something unique or, you know help another brand, we always are there to do that. And we invite them to our offices for, for, of course just to feed them cookies and savory, which is nice,
Tired of hearing wholesale buyers say, We have lines like yours that we already stock. We wanna sell through those before considering bringing on a new supplier. Just need a buyer to say yes. So you land more wholesale accounts and get your product into more consumer's hands. Want a pitching formula that incorporates how your product tastes goes well beyond that to show how distinctive your is, even if your product is comparable to others. Getting your product on more shelves into more consumer's hands and putting more money in your pocket for every food and drink product you sell is not easy, especially if you don't have a winning pitch framework to follow. Success is easier once you know the precise framework to follow that will engage a wholesale buyer to say, Yes, join me, Chelsea Ford Food and drink industry expert, award-winning food business coach, and former big food sales director for my free masterclass money for Jam.
You'll learn what to include in an irresistible sales pitch, even if you're pitching to a wholesale buyer that you've never spoken to before, how to get your messages returned from a busy buyer and what to say that cuts through the noise of the competitive marketplace and how to communicate the value that a wholesale buyer cares about. So you get stocked more widely, even if your product is comparable to others. Learn how to stand out from the crowd and learn more wholesale accounts. Click the link in the show notes or go to females in food.com and save your place. I'm delivering the class live and places are limited. There will be no replays. So if you want the framework and the bonus pricing workbook, you must attend the live session. So what about in an inspiration, you know, we were talking before the recording started about inspiration out of category and looking at other businesses. I mean, you do so much N P D and you have this growing business. You are a busy person, you're a mom of three. Where do you go for your inspiration and do you always look within the category itself?
Hmm. Probably for inspiration I go to Yeah, well you do you mean like looking, looking or like hearing or
Visiting
About like guy, Guy raws and he's an inspiration. Yeah. Okay.
I mean, for food inspiration, a lot of times I, I, whenever I travel, I'm obsessed with going to, to shops. I go into donut shops, I go into other supermarkets around the world. I love donut flavors, so I'm always thinking, Oh my gosh, this is just such a great flavor. And then I'll think, Oh, I, we should make a cookie like that. But as an inspiration overhaul, we were speaking about the podcast Guy Raz, and I think he's just he's a, you know, a great interviewer like you and gets his, his what am I called? I guess I'm a
Guest.
Guest. Thank you. He gets his best to talk. So he was speaking with a, a person that was, that started a sock brand, and he talked about kind of in, in general about that to be great. You don't have to be an inventor like you, there's so much you can do in life and there's things that have been around forever. You know, socks, whatever. It's rugs, chairs. You just need to be creative enough to make it better. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And that's what we've done with Cookie Dough. I mean, Cookie Dough has been around for a long, long time. Think Pillsbury Nestle, I mean, they've been doing it, but what we've done is we've taken it and we've made it better and unique and
Contemporary. And, and what I love about yours is that it has such a personality. You know, I, not everything I do is about women, but it does feel really feminine to me. Like it feels like a really fun kind of Harajuku girl.
Yeah,
Yeah. Harajuku.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Is that a compliment, Kathryn? I hope it is. That's how I see your Well, you're dochy anyway. Yeah.
Right, right. Yeah, definitely. And, and I think that's what's what keeps us going is just thinking that we're making something better. We're making people happy. We get great compliments from our customers saying, you know, I, I, I never thought I would could make a cookie in the afternoon to have with my tea and just have one. My father who's nineties years old, can now bake cookies for his friends. My child comes home from school every day and bakes one cookie in a little waffle iron. I mean, just really, really cute things like that. And it goes a long way. But it's true. Like there's, there's so many things out there and people shouldn't get discouraged that oh my gosh, somebody's already done it. Because there's always ways that we can make things better.
You know what, you are. So speaking to me there, because my sister who's one of my confidence and has worked with me at females in food, she has often said to me historically, Chelsea, why do you have to do everything from scratch and be unique? And I've only probably in the last year started to think about taking existing ideas and improving them. But prior to that, I was one of those people that the whole time I had to, and it wasn't trying to be different for different sake to draw attention, it was just sort of who I am thinking that that's what I needed to do. And being an innovator. But there is something to be said about, there's virtually no new ideas in the world. It is just about putting your own stamp on it and being okay with that. Yeah. So, yeah, and I've got some new stuff coming out too, so it's, it's perfect timing for me to you say that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They, they're so far, Well, they're not, they're not close enough to being even hinted at at the moment. I'll leave it at that <laugh>.
All right, well I'm gonna have to come back and interview you
On that. Yeah, yeah, you will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So the another thing that's, so what, what we like to talk about too is, which is kind of goes on your innovation is you know, doe as you please. So take our dough and use it in multiple ways, which, you know, starting from, from kind of scratch. So using our dough as a base and we do that a lot on our Instagram. How to, to make a a cheesecake with our cookie dough as the base our use our savory as a deconstructed pizza. Roll it out and top it over a mac and cheese that make it a jalapeno mac and cheese. Like all these great things you can do that are so easy. And the other day I took our savory jalapeno and I made a cheese fondue. And then I dipped, I, I put the biscuits in in it frozen and then baked it and they expanded into the cheese fondue and it was so divine. So then I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna do this. So I did that with the jalapeno. Then I, then I took the the miso black pepper one, and I took the cheese and then I added kimchi to the cheese
And
I was like, and then the, the miso black pepper biscuit and then baked that. And that was just so beautiful. So then I took the sundried tomato one and I took the, took the same cheese, but I swirled in pesto and put the sundried tomato biscuits in it. And then I had a pesto sundried tomato cheese sauce. So I was like, this is fantastic. And this a cup over the summer I was approached by Penguin Random House for a cookbook. So and I've met with them, so I've been putting my recipes together. I'm like, bang, there's another recipe for the cookbook. So hopefully next year this time will, I'll have a cookbook out.
Oh my God. Kathryn, you didn't even start your life. You started your life in what legal or parliamentary administration. What was it that you started your life out
In? Politics. Politics.
In politics. Right. Did you ever in a million years, think as a 20 year old university student or thereabouts, that you would be the doe queen of the uk?
No, never Uhuh. I never thought, I laugh at myself because I, I never would know, you know, food technology the way I do or machinery. Machinery makes me really chuckle cuz I'm like, Oh my gosh,
<Laugh>.
Like, why would I have ever known this in the way, you know, things work and be able to put together and take apart. Well, I say that I could take and put together the old apart, the old one, the, the, the baby machines now, these new ones they're too, too complex. So I just have other people that I look to and I'm like, you know, make sure you put that together. Right, <laugh>, yet, I, I have no clue.
It must be fun. That's what I loved about manufacturing. I mean, I worked for the, for big food companies and I used to love going down to the coffee roaster or seeing the rice puffed at Kellogg, or, you know, whatever it was. It was so good. Then even in the old days at do egg burs, which Dutch company, but owned by Sara Lee at the time, we had a machine that threaded the cotton thread through the teabag. So good. Oh
My gosh, that is so cool. Yeah,
Not so cool. Now I'm told by one of my, my members who says, you know, it's not good for the environment to have all these other extra bits, but in the early nineties it was, it was fantastic. So what about as a former political advisor, now do Queen, what about the real kind of the, the Muller the cash, cash flow profitability? That must have been a steep learning curve from you. I mean, you've grown this amazing business and so much to learn on that side when really you form your love is probably the creative side where it certainly has sounded like it to, to this stage.
Right. I hate raising money. I hate it. It's so awful. And thank goodness my husband's a banker, so he <laugh> he can help. Well, it got to the point, I mean, we invested a lot ourselves, and it got to the point that we would've had to start, you know, going into retirement and thinking thank goodness all my children are older. So they're I have twins that'll be 25 next month and almost a 22, turning 23 this year. So they're older. So I didn't have to worry about their educations, which they were pretty much done with and how to finance those because now I had to finance a factory. So we, we did everything we could. And then it got to the point, like to build this factory that we're in now, which goes back to do contract manufacturer, Do you build out a factory?
I mean, the factory was close to 2 million and by the time you put everything in there and you know, another stainless steel table, oh my gosh, that's 700 pounds. Another this like, it just, I mean, buying new boots, you start to think, okay, that's 2000 pounds. Like everything costs. And and you wanna make it a comfortable workplace too, right? You, you've, and, and I'm, you know, people walk in and they can't believe how clean our factory is. Whole Foods, when they came to visit, they're like, we could literally eat off the floor. Like that's how clean it is. And that's something that's important to us. So to keep it that way, it's a cost. So we we had to raise money in the beginning and we were lucky we were able to we have some friends in family in tech that wanted to invest in us. And so I've now have to, I still own 52% of my company because I had to grow it at a, at a smaller valuation. But the good news is, is now I'm done, well hopefully done, don't need to raise anymore. We're in a great place this year we're, we, we will be profitable. And so it's, yeah. So I think we're finally in, in a place where it is what it is and just look forward.
So did you get good at doing investor pitches or did you not have to because it was friends and family and it was all pretty casual over a glass of wine?
Yeah, no, we started to do investor pitches and putting the computer and I've gotten really good at writing investor pitches. Okay. I mean, I'm, What's the key? Just make it beautiful and flow like the, especially if it's food. I think food or products, maybe if you're going into invest in a, a concept, maybe that would be more financial data, but you need to you, you want every slide to kind of move into each, the next one. So they wanna keep reading. And there's like a technique with that, like one like, so we usually have a, a beautiful line that kind of trails its way through and then expands that, that color will like circle around something that's highlighted and that goes into the next page. Do you, do you know what I mean? Like yes, there's this whole technique of making it flow.
So like you're hungry for the next page and you can feel that the, the the swirl, the swoosh doesn't actually finish until the next page. Yeah. So it draws the line, it draws the eyes. Okay, fabulous. Right.
And it's leading into the next thing. And then the next thing, not just these separate, you know, pages that have nothing to no relation to the next one or the one before. They all have to relate whether it's in a color one one line, one swoosh, one, one something.
So of those, those 48% of people who are the, the 48% that you don't own, how much say do they get in the, in your business weekend, week out?
Oh, thank goodness, not a lot.
They they, they have some say one of, one of them is like on the board of directors and then, but we actually, this new last raise that we had to do there's been some strategic people that we've brought in. Not, they were not big huge financial commitments. They're more strategic and they'll be really helpful. So I can't talk about them yet because it's just closing. This is the end. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so definitely strategic, helpful really know the business and know how have really good connections if we decide to expand into the US mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and can help the brand.
So what about competition? You've got competition with the Doci and you know, that's, that's, you know, and, and also with other, with the, with the dough of course, in general, do you get bothered by competitors? Are you friendly with them? And then now moving pa possibly to the US with your brand, I mean that opens up a whole new competitive set. What's your position on that?
Well, nobody makes a doci. So there's mochi just, but no Doughchi. So I think Doughchi is so unique that nobody has decided, and it took us two years to create the, the recipe that would work. So I'm hoping that nobody comes in soon. Now there has been a huge growth around snackable ice cream and the grocery just did a piece this, this last weekend on the called the Dairy Man and how Snackable ice cream whether they're, so a lot of them take ice cream and they'll dip it in chocolate, so it'll be chocolate coated. But or there's the mochi, but Doughchi is, we're the only ones that do it. And we've actually trademarked Doughchi
Oh, of course. My mistake to think that you have a competitor there, so like product but not identical. So do you know your, do you know people in your category and do you swap notes or is it pretty
No, it's kinda, And Cookie Dough, we've been quite lucky. So actually Cookie Dough, they, they bake their cookies, well, they do cookie dough shoes, so I don't know if you know, actually her name's Chelsea from Blondie's Kitchen. Do you know them?
In the uk.
The uk No,
I don't know them.
Selfridges. And they do cookie dough. They have pop, they've, they're more brick and mortar than selling into retail, but they're really nice girls and I talk to them all the time and they, they actually emailed me recently, like, we're looking for new space, do you know anybody? And so I put them in touch with my landlord where we rent and just to see, you know, I, I really like them and I'm happy to help if I can help. Even though yes, they are, but they're not all gluten free, so they're not in direct, direct competition. I don't think anybody else does a gluten free cookie dough that tastes amazing bars, Of course.
No way. You, you have like so many unique selling propositions with the, you know, vegan elements, the gluten free, which is just incredible. The, the doci as you say, I mean, you really have carved out your point of difference at every angle. I mean so much to be proud of. And yet I do know how supportive you are of other women in business in general, but I don't blame you for not necessarily being best buddies with any seeming competitors. Well,
Only one, yeah. There's only one competitor in that space that the mochi space and yeah, that's just not, I mean, there's no anger, just, we're just not friends.
Yeah, fair enough. So what's, what's, what's next?
Ooh, I have a really good idea, but I'll have to tell you off the air because maybe you, maybe you'll, maybe you'll wanna start it in Australia and I could start it here. No just so just keep growing delicious and if see what happens and then maybe do something, something more with other ideas we have and go into the us The US is definitely in the plans.
Yeah. Excited about that.
Uhhuh also, we're looking at, I mean, for the Australian market, we've, we were speaking with somebody and he was talking about a joint venture of putting a Doughlicious factory in South Africa, which would then produce for the for other countries mm-hmm.
<Affirmative> for Ocean and the Pacific maybe. Yeah.
So that would be really interesting.
Incredible. So
In the beginning, talks of something like that. But in the meantime, I have my hands full. We're launching in Benelux, so Belgium, Luxemburg Netherlands this year hopefully France, cuz that would be a good one. And and then hopefully the US next year, but right now I'm just trying to focus on, on growing in the uk the Tesco launch, which is huge. And the cookbook.
Amazing. You are a force of nature, Kathryn Bricken. So anything else? One, one last thing that you wish you knew at the very beginning that you'd like to share with the audience and then then tell us where people can find out more about Delicious.
One thing I wish I would've known in the beginning I think food is super exciting and I think nobody tells you actually, I mean, well, you know how hard it is, right? Yeah. always look at it and, and everybody's like, Oh, I can do that. But I don't think you realize, I think it takes a lot of money and a lot of luck, and some people say it's one or the other, but I think it's both. So you have to be lucky and you have to be able to have the money yourself or get investors.
Yeah.
And then maybe, I guess that's the combination of you're lucky enough to get investors, I don't know <laugh>, but yeah, I would, I just think it's a lot harder again, like, but I had twins and everybody always says, Oh my gosh, I want twins. I'm like, it's a lot of work. So I think I started off and I, I've never done anything easy and maybe it'll get easier in life, but I feel like I always take, take on a lot and just make it work.
Yeah. And you do it with such a smile on your face all the time too. I mean, you've got a lot on your plate, but you know, my dad always says me good players make their own luck. So to your point about maybe getting investors is because you're lucky, but you know, maybe not, you know, I think it's two sides of the one coin, and as I said to you off the air too which we could probably have a whole nother conversation about is, is it fame or is it money that makes it and you've added in luck as well. I think it's a little bit of everything. And when I say fame, I, I think the foodpreneur that I heard that from all she was meaning is to be able to build up you know, say an incredible social media following, for instance, and, and, and get a buy in from your, from your crowd, from your peeps, from your community. Yeah. But food, food is hard. People, so many people think that it's a walk in the park, like how hard can it be? Well, in packaged goods and dealing with retails.
Yeah. Well, and when you think about it, you're making food like this is like, it has to be safe, right? So every day I'm like, you know, you you, your goal is to make a safe product. You know, the fun part is making it delicious, making it you know, cool the packaging, the, the look of it. But it all comes down to safety. And I think that's what sometimes gets to me, like, oh my gosh, like we are responsible for people's safety. So that's the, the number one goal which I don't think was my goal in the beginning. It was like, Oh yeah, let's make this product, It's gonna be fun and it's gonna taste great, but once you grow, safety's so important. And that's, that's just the root of it all. So yeah, it's kind of daunting when you think about that, right? Like how you, that you have to make sure everything you give to people tastes great, but is safe.
Absolutely. And another point to make about if you're doing your own manufacturing, your own facility, that, that the onus is, well, either way the onus is on you, you know? Yeah. As the brand owner. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah. So
Where can people, where can people find out more about Doughlicious?
So Doughlicious.Co.Uk is our website. And we, we, sadly we have direct to consumer, but is only in the UK right now, but again, growing and growing and hopefully you'll, I can, I've had a lot of cookie monsters out there listening that are intrigued and wanna learn more and will watch us. And if you can find us, try us and let us know what you think because we are amazing and you would never know we're gluten free and just want just every day trying to bake the world a better place with our cookies and give people something interesting and innovative to eat and love.
You're Ray of sunshine. Thank you.
Thank you, Chelsea. Yeah, this was really fun.
Okay, that's it for today. Thanks for listening. I hope you found today's insights valuable and learned something that you will implement in your food and drink business right away. I'd like to ask you now to help me help more female foodpreneurs, put more money in their pocket by giving me an honest rating. Five Stars would be lovely, but that's up to you. Write a review and subscribe to this podcast on your platform of choice. The more you tell me what you like and the more momentum builds for Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford, the easier it will be for me to help women with packaged food and drink brands have more choice on how they can invest in their business, freedom to spend more time with their loved ones and joy as they help even more people on their food journey. So thank you for taking a moment to do that and see you next week for another episode of Food with Chelsea Ford.