Introducing a new product into the market is not easy. There’s a lot to consider, including market research, production, branding, packaging, marketing, distribution, sales, and much more. It's a venture fraught with uncertainty. What adds an extra layer of risk is managing an overseas supplier and launching a product featuring an age-old, traditional seed from overseas that's largely unfamiliar to most Australians.
But this is exactly what my guests on the podcast this week did.
In the latest episode of Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford podcast, I chat with Melanie Salwa and Bhuvan Dua, the co-founders of Fox Pops. Their product, a light, crunchy, delicious, guilt-free snack deeply rooted in Indian tradition, recently made its debut at Foodpreneurs Festival in Australia.
During our chat, we delve into their meticulous approach to launching Fox Pops into the Aussie market, covering topics ranging from product naming and branding to pinpointing specific target markets and marketing strategies, including:
🦊 Why they’re focusing on the right ‘partnerships’ over the right ‘channels’ for now.
🦊 How they are bootstrapping their growth.
🦊 How they chose their product flavours during product development.
🦊 How they manage their margins working with an overseas supplier.
🦊 How working to their strengths has helped them create a successful working relationship.
🦊 How they juggle their supply chain, working capital and current stock to fulfill current orders while being mindful of product shelf life.
🦊Different tactics they use on social media (including a trick you may not know about!)
🦊 The marketing strategies they’re using as a startup without a ‘Barbie’ budget.
LINKS & RESOURCES
If you haven’t listened to Episode 79 (19 mins), ‘’Key Actions to Boost Profits Based on Your Revenue
This episode is brought to you by Foodpreneurs Festival, bringing packaged food & drink brand owners, retail buyers, media & industry experts together under one roof.
Foodpreneurs Festival on May 17 in Sydney, includes a packed schedule of events, including:
Whether you’re new to the food and drink industry, or a seasoned Foodpreneur, get ready for an epic celebration of all things food and drink at the 2024 Festival!
But that’s not all! In an opportunity that’s 64 times bigger than last year, Foodpreneurs Festival is hosting a thrilling event for packaged food & drink brand owners to take their shot* at coming face-to-face with retail buyers and getting their products listed on retail shelves.
Tickets are now on sale via Eventbrite until sold out.
* Terms & conditions apply. See website for the details.
Introducing a new product into the market is not easy. There’s a lot to consider, including market research, production, branding, packaging, marketing, distribution, sales, and much more. It's a venture fraught with uncertainty. What adds an extra layer of risk is managing an overseas supplier and launching a product featuring an age-old, traditional seed from overseas that's largely unfamiliar to most Australians.
But this is exactly what my guests on the podcast this week did.
In the latest episode of Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford podcast, I chat with Melanie Salwa and Bhuvan Dua, the co-founders of Fox Pops. Their product, a light, crunchy, delicious, guilt-free snack deeply rooted in Indian tradition, recently made its debut at Foodpreneurs Festival in Australia.
During our chat, we delve into their meticulous approach to launching Fox Pops into the Aussie market, covering topics ranging from product naming and branding to pinpointing specific target markets and marketing strategies, including:
🦊 Why they’re focusing on the right ‘partnerships’ over the right ‘channels’ for now.
🦊 How they are bootstrapping their growth.
🦊 How they chose their product flavours during product development.
🦊 How they manage their margins working with an overseas supplier.
🦊 How working to their strengths has helped them create a successful working relationship.
🦊 How they juggle their supply chain, working capital and current stock to fulfill current orders while being mindful of product shelf life.
🦊Different tactics they use on social media (including a trick you may not know about!)
🦊 The marketing strategies they’re using as a startup without a ‘Barbie’ budget.
LINKS & RESOURCES
If you haven’t listened to Episode 79 (19 mins), ‘’Key Actions to Boost Profits Based on Your Revenue
This episode is brought to you by Foodpreneurs Festival, bringing packaged food & drink brand owners, retail buyers, media & industry experts together under one roof.
Foodpreneurs Festival on May 17 in Sydney, includes a packed schedule of events, including:
Whether you’re new to the food and drink industry, or a seasoned Foodpreneur, get ready for an epic celebration of all things food and drink at the 2024 Festival!
But that’s not all! In an opportunity that’s 64 times bigger than last year, Foodpreneurs Festival is hosting a thrilling event for packaged food & drink brand owners to take their shot* at coming face-to-face with retail buyers and getting their products listed on retail shelves.
Tickets are now on sale via Eventbrite until sold out.
* Terms & conditions apply. See website for the details.
This is the Foodreneur with Chelsea Ford Podcast. Welcome foodpreneurs to episode number 80. Today I'm chatting with two founders, Melanie and Bhuvan of the new and fabulous snack brand. Fox Pops, Fox Pops is popped Water, lily seeds, native to North India, and well-known there, but relatively unknown in Western supermarkets. I met Melanie and Bhuvan when they debuted their product at the inaugural Foodpreneurs Festival earlier this year. Both talented corporates hoping to scale Fox pops beyond their side hustle, working to their strengths. Melanie, content creation and sales B brand and the commercial side. Bootstrapping hard to build a brand that they wanna see ranged well everywhere. I recorded this conversation with them in July and since then they've closed a bunch of deals with retailers and distributors. You'll hear me ask them about their growth plans such as managing supply so they don't go out of stock and managing the manufacturing process and costs when their supplier is offshore, balancing their short and long-term goals, how they're educating their consumer and how they use social media, especially video when they don't have marketing budget.
If you are launching and scaling a product, our conversation will help you hear the steps you need to take. This episode of Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford is brought to you by my new More Money in your Pocket free masterclass, helping you scale a profitable packaged food and drink business. I'm excited to share this content with you. I've written it for the Financial Times that we're in. Join the free class and walk away with a straightforward sales system that brings in new leads every week industry knowledge, wholesale buyers expect you to know, and the formula to put more money in your pocket for every food and drink product you sell. Linked to the registration page is in the show notes. The masterclass will be live and there will be no replay.
Hi, I'm Chelsea Ford, former industry sales director, award-winning food and drink business expert, head coach of the acclaimed coaching program for Women Foodpreneur Formula, and your host for this, the Foodpreneur podcast. If you're a packaged food and drink brand owner, tune in with me each week and walk away knowing how to land more accounts, how to get your product into more consumers' hands, and how to price correctly for wholesale with or without distributors. In each episode, I'm going to tap into my three decades of experience leading sales, marketing, and money teams for big and small food and drink brands to give you coaching tips that will help you take your business to new heights without the overwhelm. I know what works and I know what doesn't. So I'm going to share with you industry tools and insider knowledge that are next to impossible for small businesses to access.
And I'll dive into my little black book to bring you interviews with hard to reach industry specialists, experienced foodpreneurs and wholesale buyers who will help you solve those pesky industry specific problems like distribution that I know you've been losing way too much sleepover. So roll up your sleeves, foodpreneurs, because you are about to enter a no fluff zone, I'm bringing my A game so you can reach yours no matter where you are, whether it's in your kitchen, coordinating your deliveries, or on your way to a buyer meeting. Listen up because we're about to set the path for you to secure your next best stockist, increase your sales and live life on your terms. This is the Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford podcast. Yay, Melanie and Boon from Fox Pops. I am so excited to have you on the show today. Welcome.
Thank you Chelsea. Thank you for having us. So tell
Us, you know, your products debuted at Foodpreneurs Festival 2023. So as far as I'm concerned, it's totally hot off the press and it's really exciting. It's delicious and it's gorgeous. And we're gonna unpack today the beauty behind the brand. But first up, tell me what actually is Fox Pops made from and tell me about your business and the brand.
Yeah, for sure. So chassis, basically Fox Pops is a light, crunchy, delicious and nutritious snack made of popped water lily seeds. So not the small lily pads you see floating around in ponds, but the larger variety that are native to north of India. So these plants, they basically produce seeds, which when roasted over high heat, they pop right outta the shell. So they've been around in India for generations and used in Ayurveda but are relatively unknown to Australia. So we thought we'd kind of introduce them to the Australian market. We have five different flavors the halalan, salt, salt and vinegar, smoked chili sa cream and onion. And we went a bit different with the peanut butter.
Mm, you did? Yes. <laugh> and your business partners, how did you maid and who does what in the business?
Well, yes, we are business partners and we actually met through our life partners. So our life partners were friends and they were colleagues before. And then we started, you know, catching up and, you know, over, we used to catch up for beer and suddenly we started talking about this product and we were also thinking about starting a business. So kind of everything came together and we started this business because Melanie was also looking for the snack in the supermarket, you know, to start, you know because back in India she used to eat it every day, and here is one, it was not easily available. That's how we came together. And then from there we started doing the research, a lot of research, and then now here we are in that process we kind of learned about our own strengths what we do and what we bring to the table, kind of self-assessment.
And of course, you know talking to each other. From there we kind of established who will focus on what. Like I'm focusing on like the branding, how the brand looks like the same time me is looking after content. So both come together and, you know, we have the product and our social media and everything alongside I'm from commercial and finance background. Mm-Hmm. So I look after the commercial side of it. At the same time, Mel is looking after the sales, so she will approach the customer and I will talk about the commercial. Of course, we are both focusing on sales because that's the main thing we have to achieve. Mm-Hmm. But on the other side, which is social media marketing, Melanie's focusing on that and plus the marketing at the other channels, and I will focus on e-commerce side. That's how we are, you know, building up on our strengths and who will look after what. And of course there are other admin tasks which we both have to do and divide and go from there.
And how much time at the moment are you spending on Fox Pops? Because it's not your full-time gig yet?
Not yet, yes.
But every, every working minute like every free minute we have. Yeah. We're working on Fox Pops <laugh>,
So,
And our full-time jobs, that's what we're doing <laugh>.
Right, okay. And Butman also you have, I remember when we spoke at the Naturally Good show, we talked about the operations and demand planning. So does that mean you also have the, I guess the liaison with the operations and the product getting the product to market on your to-do list?
Yes, definitely because that's a bigger challenge on the supply chain because this is an important product and it is only made in India, so we have to manage the supply chain in a way that we never got of stock. So as soon as we launched last month, our main challenge was we plan on selling out the current stock, which is the smaller shipment, but at the same time, we plan what is coming in next and how much mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So working on our forecast, looking at the stores where we are talking to right now mm-hmm. <Affirmative> looking at where we are getting ranged. So that's is a bigger challenge for us. And of course, working capital at the same time, how much we invest where, because of this product, our marketing spend would also be much higher, you know, as compared to few other products.
So yes, we keep going back looking at our p and l, looking at our supply chain challenges, looking at you know, freight rate for that matter. You know, freight is kind after Covid Freight is up in the air, right? It has, it was like three times higher mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and now it is coming down slowly, so which kind of impact are cost and which will impact the margin. So we have to be very careful how we kind of plan our pricing for the next, you know, we have to look after one year what will happen and then decide what to do. Now
Are you bootstrapping in terms of financials, meaning anything you earn, you're putting it back into the business yourselves?
Yes, that's, that's right.
You know, that demand planning that you talk about, if we could just jump straight into sort of pretty hardcore business question is pretty hard because you've, it's hard at the best of times, but you guys have some big hurdles to consider in that the product is manufactured by a co-manufacturer offshore and your new product and you've got multiple flavor variants. And so determining what's going to be popular to be able to order that and then get it on, I assume it's on the water as opposed to being air freighted and is that right? Yes, that's right. And so then it needs to be shipped to Australia. So obviously there's an expense involved in that need that's needless to say, but the art and science of that demand planning and sales predictions, wow, that's a big job.
Yes, yes, it is actually because there's a shelf life as well for the product, so you cannot order too much because then they will be expires. Right. And you cannot order two less because if you're out stock, you know, let's say you land a retailer and then for two months you're out of stock, you're out of the market, then it's hard to get in again. Mm-Hmm. So those are the biggest challenges which we will face in next you know, six months to one year, and actually for the rest of our life, for that matter mm-hmm. <Laugh>, it, it'll never end. Right. So we just have to be cautious that one is we focus on short-term goals, but keep looking at what is our long-term goal. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, so we don't kind of surprise after six months, oh, we did this wrong. Of course there will be mistakes.
We will learn a lot. And, you know, since we came to your your festival we learned a lot from there because before that we were just doing our homework, launching the product, and that was the first time we came, you know, we launched our product to the public. And then after that we received our shipment and we learned about the distribution cha channels, the pricing, the margins so all the homework, what we did, plus the reality, we are kind of combined in last one month after the festival. So that's where we are right now. And reaching out to the CU customers, reaching out to our suppliers, talking to our suppliers again, how we can scale up our manufacturing when and how much mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So yeah, that's our kind of story <laugh> at the moment, what's going on in our life, <laugh>.
So I love that you talked about kind of the dreaming, you know, the pre-planning and then the reality, some of which landed, you know, at the festival and then in the aftermath of Foodpreneurs Festival going, okay, so what do we need to do? But I also heard you say, so let's say we landed a retailer, you know, then you went on to talk about your demand planning. So what is the situation with your wholesalers at the moment? You know, are you in a retail outlet yet? Where, if not, where are you selling?
We are not at a retail outlet yet. We are in very advanced stage, and a few of them are actually from the leads we got from Food premiers festival and plus other leads as well, <laugh>. And we are in touch with a few wholesalers and we are looking for the right partner because you know I was listening to one of your PO podcast with Car and Co and it was quite surprising to hear that lot of distributors do not share data, you know, who they're selling to <laugh>. And that kind of, that was also an eye-opener for us, you know, that okay, we have to find the right partner because we need awareness for this product, and we need to know how it is selling through where it is selling. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So it is quite important for us to find the right partner mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and going to the right retailers as well, and when to grow, how much and where to grow. So we are kind of going right somewhere in, in the short term. We are going right in the right direction right now, but of course, we have to land the right retailer at at, at this point. So we have kind of, we have commitment for like, almost 80% of our stock. But we are not at the stores yet.
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, where can people buy the products? Can they buy it online?
Yes, they can. Yeah, they can buy from our website, yes.
Okay. We can, we can talk about at the end of our conversation. So it's really interesting you talked about and picked up on, I think the alignment is how I would describe it with your partners, with the intermediaries and and alignment being the, that, that, say for a distributor that they're delivering into the type of retailers that you wanna be ranged in. And also considering what else do they have on their books or what else, what other products do they list that compliments or competes with your product and plus this point that you make around, or this this point that you picked up around, they don't share data. Look, sometimes when you have an exclusive arrangement, which generally speaking, cartel and co as a distributor, who I have, I did that podcast interview with prefer yeah. But it's, it's more the it's not the norm, that's for sure. The sales are, there's a lot of paranoia between producers and or distributors with producers going direct, which I think is misplaced because you want to use the distributor to be able to scale, so you can start to build relationships, you know, with your consumers and or your, your retailers. So I, I think it's very, as I said, misplaced and frankly, I think it's old school. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah. Definitely. We are actually learning about this at the moment. So hopefully we'll land the right distributor for us.
Yeah. So with the flavor variants that you spoke about before, the five, the hoal and Salt, salt and vinegar, smoked chili and sour cream. Sour cream and onion and peanut butter. Yep. So Melanie, how did you decide on those flavors? You've really taken quite a punt.
Yep. So because our product is so unique we didn't wanna experi experiment much flavor, so we wanted to keep it simple, and our approach from the start was very clear that we wanted, it wanted our snack to be an alternative to traditional popular snacks such as potato, chips, crisps. So we wanted the flavors that people love and keep coming back for. So we wanted, and we didn't wanna kind of have the hassle of marketing a new product and a new flavor. Yeah.
Good
Idea. Yeah, it gets pretty confusing. <Laugh>. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> give an example. I was reading a Reddit post about how a snack was launched in the uk and it was a pina punch flavored snack. So Pina in Hindi is translated to like mint in English, like mint leaves. So the snacks in India have this flavor, this mint leaf flavor, and they're pretty popular there. Mm-Hmm. But anywhere else around the world so I was reading this post, but have someone launched a snack with this flavor in the uk and people were not even willing to touch it because on the packet it said mint flavor, and they kind of associated it with like peppermint or the brem mint, which you have. And they were just like, how can anyone have a snack, which is like peppermint flavor? So they weren't even willing to like pick it up to even try it. So I was just like, yeah our product's new. We don't wanna go down that route. Maybe we can lose like one off special flavors. Once people kind of understand a product, love it, it becomes a staple, then we kind of can start looking at something new.
Yeah. You are such a, a, a master or you know, a genius I think when it comes to your communications and your branding. And, and then I just wanna pick up on the fact that you clearly said you didn't want to educate the tar target customer on the snack itself, popped water lily seeds and a new flavor. So it was safer to go with recognizable well-known flavors, particularly of potato chips. And I'm a massive fan of salt and vinegar. And, and then just leave the education component to the pop water lily seed itself, which, which, how, how is that going so far? I know you're not in wholesale per se, but of course your product does exist. You can buy it online. I've tried. It looks, tastes amazing. So what, what is the feedback that you're getting thus far?
So when people try a product, they absolutely love it, but what we need to do is get it, get people to try it, <laugh>. So that's what we're working on. So given that we are just starting off and don't have a large marketing budget at a disposal so we're starting with collaborations, like looking for opportunities to partner with local businesses and events that align with our brand. Then once we are arranged in stores we're looking at digital marketing in the geolocations around the stores and also doing in-store tastings because it'll be very useful to like, have people try the product when they come, kind of come in to shop and then maybe pick it up after they try it because we shop, they're gonna love it. Also influencer marketing is something we're looking at. So once again, once we're arranged pe the influence, we can ask the influencers to kind of direct people to the stores in which we are arranged. And then finally, moving on to kind of PR and sponsorship sponsoring events once we're a little bit off,
You have said to me that people want better for you snacks to binge guilt-free and satisfy their snack cravings. How do you know that?
Now it is quite, you know, if you read some stats as well this industry is growing and for next seven to eight years, it'll grow at A C H E R off around, you know, seven to 8%. And even if you, you know, keep the numbers aside, if you go to a supermarket, it is quite evident now. The health aisle is big and it'll be interesting to see when it'll start merging with the regular aisle. It is starting to happen now, so they are next to each other not in different aisle. Like, you know, aisle one is better, like normal snack aisle eight is health, you know, healthier snacks. So they're coming much closer now. So, and but at the same time, the challenge in the market is there are a lot of new brands which are coming as a better for you snack, but a lot of them are kind of trying to recreate something new which can actually be healthier, but can it be an good alternate for a potato chip or you know, the puffs, the Cheetos, and you know, all these kind of products mm-hmm.
<Affirmative>. So, but with this product, because it has been tried and tested in the market, it has been there for generations. People have been eating it. So that's it just now for us is the awareness in the market that of course we know there's a potential for this product. We just have to unlock that potential. So people can try the product and of course they can be future sales as well, you know, that people, it can become a household, like a regular snack in people's life.
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> do you think in the first instance in Australia where you're based, you're based in Sydney, right? Both of you? Yes. That you'll target areas with the Indian diaspora who already know the product or not?
Not at the moment. First, we are trying to go towards it, it's kind of a mix. We will target both the markets. Right now we are trying to go closer to the inner west areas, like the city areas because their people are more experimental as well. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> in terms of trying new products. Mm-Hmm. Plus of course, we'll try and focus on the market, like the areas where Indian population is higher, because as soon as they see the product, this a nostalgic, okay, this is the product we used to eat while we were growing up, now it is here and it's in, you know, our favorite flavors. And they will pick it up. And actually, if you go back in India, people, like, let's say if, if I'm a, you know, seven year old kid, if I go to my mom, I want to buy a, you know, buy a packet of chips, he will get you know, the mackenna, which is so pop water, li lily seeds is called mackenna in Hindi. So you can roast it at home and give it to your you know, family. So, so it's a very easy alternate for kids there. So as soon as parents will see it here, they will buy it for their kids.
Yes.
And that's also a big market for us.
So the ultimate vision for Fox Pops, you know, how, how, what does that look like and how big are you gonna be?
Very big. So to make it a household stapler and favorite. So we want people to reach for Fox pops at cinemas when they need a snack at work before a workout for breakfast and even while having a drink at the pub. So it goes really well with beer. And we even have a tagline for, it pops for your hops
<Laugh>.
So we know it's gonna be a challenging task and we're gonna have to invest in the right channels, but we're gonna get there
Thousands of new food and drink products land in the market each year. And unfortunately many struggle to get the attention they deserve. Why? Because they believe all they need to do is land on more supermarket shelves and they'll have a successful, profitable business. I understand this common thought businesses need customers, right? But what food and drink brand owners need more is to get their product off the shelf into more consumers baskets and to put more money in their pocket for every product they sell. This is called margin management and it gives business owners money to buy raw materials, get help with marketing, pay the school fees, or just to pay themselves a wage. Otherwise, it is just an expensive hobby, isn't it? If you want your product on more supermarket shelves and more money in your pocket, you need a roadmap that outlines a sales system that brings in new leads every week.
You need to have the industry knowledge, wholesale buyers expect you to have to get your products stocked on their shelves, and you need the formula to put more money in your pocket for every product that you sell. If you don't have these three things with increased competition, especially from supermarket, private label products, buyer non-responsiveness, and with the cost of living crisis, pro scaling profitably will be near impossible. And managing cash flow to keep your business afloat will be challenging. Do you want to keep operating under the belief that all we need to do is land on more shelves, or will you choose the better way? My scale up roadmap, if you want my scale up roadmap to follow and put more money in your pocket, the one I used for all my clients' business, the same one that I developed when I was an F M C G sales director, join me for my more money in your pocket free, live new masterclass. The link is in the show notes and there's a choice of class time according to your time zone. The class will be live. So I can take as many questions as the time allows. And just so you know, there won't be a replay, so click the link in the show notes and I'll see you there.
Melanie Bavan, I don't think there's anything that you two do that isn't strategic, well thought out and planned. So where did Fox pops the name come from?
It's funny you say that because it was also very well planned. <Laugh>,
Of course, it,
Yeah. So Fox so a product pop water Lily Seeds is called Ana in Hindi and in India. And it also has a bunch of different it's also known by a bunch of different names like Ure Ox, which is a scientific name, and then Fox Nuts. So that's where we picked up the fox from mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. But since you can easily pop the snack in your mouth we made it like Fox pops and also a lot of people are allergic to nuts, so we didn't want anyone to associate a product with a nut because it's not, it has nothing to do with nuts, it's a seed. So we wanted to kind of do away with that part. And that's why we made it Fox pops. So it's also easy to remember name fun, catchy and kind of takes you back to the root of the product and also tells you about like a little about how you can eat the product, like pop it in your mouth. Hmm
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Yes. It's very kind of action oriented and fun and light and airy, like, like they are, I think. Absolutely brilliant. Just love it. So, you know your branding, the packaging, all the visual assets, the messaging, fantastic. It's distinctive who created it. And what was the inspiration for the creative assets?
Well, definitely both of us created it together. But the idea where it came from was because it's an, it's an old product generation old, so we want like something to, has to be retro. Plus we need something new generation, poppy colorful. So whenever anyone can see it on the shelf, you have, you know, you have their attention because it's a new product. You need the attention first in packaging or branding. That's how we, you know, kind of work with a designer that we want something retro. So font can be towards the retro, like the bold big font. Mm-Hmm. And colors has to be poppy with some illustration. We don't want to go with the photos of the product and you know, like that small, small photos and everything, but packet has to be kind of popping out on the shelf. Mm-Hmm. And then Mel started working with them in terms of she was sitting actually with the designer how it has to be, how it has to look like and I think we had like 10 variations of different, different packaging designs,
Maybe more than 10. And it actually took us around six to eight months to finalize it. Took a lot of time.
Yeah. Because we, as you know, Melanie mentioned couple of times that this is a new product and we have to get people, you have to educate the people to pick up the product. So at least one thing, what we can do is have the packaging right. Designing right. So we have their attention, and then we have to do the rest, rest of the part. So
One of the things though, before I met you and you came and met retailers at Foodpreneurs Festival, is that you started to follow us on Instagram, I think, or something along those lines. Nonetheless, I was seeing your very few but impactful posts on Instagram, the tone of voice, can you describe it? Because it's very distinctive,
A bit sassy. That's what we are going for sassy. But at the same time getting the message across trying to grab people's attention. We are fun, we're new age like we can be your next new thing, but something you can stick with. So that's what we are kind of going for.
Mel content is amazing. She comes with so many good ideas
And well, I, I'm a total meme girl. So I wanted to make a page, a meme page, but one's like, no, we need to talk about a product <laugh>
Pops into like memes and kind of make a, they're gonna be seeing a bit of it. But I'm gonna give it some time. <Laugh>,
Who, who do you think is your target market, particularly in, you know, the western world of Australia as opposed to India? Or is there a lot of overlap?
There is an overlap definitely, which is a good problem to have. But it is a kind of a challenging answer in a way. But as a whole, like if you see a lot of people are looking for better snacks, better alternatives for themself for their family and who love actually really who love snacking mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And, but they don't want to compromise on the taste and the flavor. That's actually a market as a crux. But again, it's the vast market. So we have to go as a approach, okay. Now we focus on, you know who are aged between around 25 to 35, because when you start earning, you start spending more and you start trying new things. You know, from that economics, we can target that market, let's say in digital marketing. Hmm. And then once they're hooked on, and we can focus on other areas. Plus in that we can focus on geography as well. As you mentioned, you know, when to focus on the Australian market, when to focus on the areas where Indian population is higher. So those are the thing, but we have to take it step one step by one, step by one step. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, we cannot, at this stage, we cannot go all in everywhere and crash.
Yeah.
So we have to be very strategic where we target and how we target.
But yeah,
But the, the market is huge for this product. It's just all about awareness now. That is our biggest challenge.
Yeah. So summing it up some, like a target market is someone who really enjoys snacking, but are looking for a better alternative that doesn't compromise or tasted texture.
Mm mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, the notion of being strategic and also managing one's resources. I don't think that's necessarily just the domain of a bootstrapping startup, you know, even multinationals have to consider, you know, it's, it's never a scatter gun approach. If it is, that's just a waste of resources for anybody. So when you are looking at your market now, and you talk about this, say particularly the 25 to 35 year old who wants better snacking, maybe got some disposable income you know, how will you reach them? Where are they hanging out?
Well, I'll pass it over to Mel from the market point of view.
<Laugh>.
Okay. so just the same like what I kind of touched upon a bit earlier just influencer marketing digital marketing collaborations mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that's pretty much what we're looking at right now. Yeah.
And any particular digital channel? Or is it not really about a channel management at the moment? You're just looking at that, those right. Partnerships with the collaborators and influencers.
Yeah. Right. Partnerships as of now yeah, not particularly any channel. We are gonna be like tos big I wasn't into TikTok much earlier, but and since we're just kind of starting out I haven't used it much, but I've been seeing a lot more traction and engagement on TikTok than on any other social media platform that we're on. Mm-Hmm. So we're gonna be that a lot more to kind of get sales and yeah. Reach the right audience,
You know, a lot and look at the risk of really showing my age, Melanie, and forgive me, and maybe give me some latitude, but with TikTok, because we did a this year sometime in my businesses, I did a straw poll of foodpreneurs actually use of TikTok. And it was remarkably low. It was way lower than we predicted. Now, it may have been at the beginning of this year, 2023. But interesting. It seems to me that the momentum and I know that's potentially a real understatement but the momentum for TikTok has really taken off and brands are beginning to understand it more. So I'm wondering whether or not you could elaborate when you say you are looking at the engagement now, really pick up on TikTok and your own understanding of it has improved. So then I guess for the people listening who may be tempted to dip their toe in the water with TikTok or try and leverage it more, what's a couple of ways that they could do that? Or do you intend to do that?
So short videos basically people have because of the way social media is right now people have a very short attention span. So your videos and your social media needs to be not more than I think five to seven seconds. And your hook has to be in the first two to three seconds. You need to tell people why they have to stick around. And even then it's very hard for people to kind of stick around because they're just so used to that scrolling. And they look at your post and then kind of just, yeah, scroll again if they're not hooked on in the first three seconds. So short, succinct messages make it kind of punchy, fun put the hook in in the beginning. Your hashtags so hashtags are not really like, they're kind of not too relevant anymore, but like your keywords, so you can actually kind of put in keywords and hide it in the background.
I'm not sure how it work if it works for TikTok, but it does work for Instagram. Yeah. Like you can kind of put in a lot of keywords of like, put in a whole text block even in your stories and kind of just like swipe it away so you can't, so the person can't really see it, but it kind of gets a larger reach. So there are a lot of tips and tricks like that are there. I think it's just something that you have to do your research and kind of learn as you go as well.
<Laugh>. Yes. Yes. It's a constant, isn't it? Yeah,
It is. And things change so quickly. And we were just like, oh, okay. We've understood the platforms we're working on and then there was threads and it's a whole new ballgame. And, and it's so funny 'cause like people are telling you how to use threads, but we are just like, how do you know it's a new platform? <Laugh>.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a learning curve and things change. You have to just keep up with it.
So you wanna be the you know, have the kind of the snacking market totally sewn up ultimately, you know, you have big ambitious, what's the timeframe that for that big, hairy, audacious goal that you have to be the snack of choice?
Oh, that's a tough one. <Laugh>. Well actually a, a fun part in this. So bark, you know, big hairy, audacious goal bark, actually it means run in Hindi <laugh>. Oh, really? So actually we are running towards our goal. That's
Interesting.
So see as a, as a brand first market for us is Australia and we will be looking at expanding and at other markets as well. We already have some target markets you're gonna focus but not at this stage. But, you know, we'll start working in six to 12 months, but of course we have to get our trademarks audited and domains and everything now if we have something in our mind. And then from there we will be launching some other, other products as well, but not on the same brand name. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, it'll be different brand name, but there'll be similarities. So you can actually initiate on the shelf. You can tell, okay, this is from the same company. But again, that will also start after one year. Okay. As, as a company, we want to launch products which are more natural, but do not compromise on taste and the flavor. So that's, that's what we are looking, looking at other products in the market. We'll launch in future. So somewhere we will see us as a relevant snacking brand in around two to and a half year mark. You know, you will see it there on the shelf everywhere and have a rec brand recognition as well. Of course, we'll at the, at the stores much before that. But that presence, which, you know, any stacking brand wants, I think it'll take around two to three years, somewhere around that mark.
Mm, mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And I imagine the goal would be to, for both of you to work full-time in the business.
Yes, that's right.
So in terms of what keeps you up at night at the moment, you know, is there anything particularly in the way that you wish you could wave your magic wand and get rid of in terms of moving, running towards that big hairy, audacious goal?
I feel like our biggest blocker is our marketing budget. Yeah. If we had Barbie marketing budget, <laugh> and brand Bondi icebergs with Fox Pops, it would really help us reach our goals faster.
Yes, yes. You know, I heard somebody say once, you need two things to be successful, either a really, really big budget or to be famous, I guess Barbie's got both right. <Laugh>. Yeah,
<Laugh>
Lucky her
And they're doing well. <Laugh>,
What was that, Melanie?
They're doing it well, <laugh>. Oh, they both aspects of it. <Laugh>,
Yeah. When you just have a big pink billboard and everybody knows what it means with kind of nothing else on it, it's amazing.
Banded the whole, the Bondi Icebergs with Barbie, that was pretty cool. <Laugh>.
Oh, I must admit, I didn't see that. But I've seen sort of everything else. And I do know that the Bob Star, my husband, said, oh, do you wanna go and see it? Which blew my mind. <Laugh>,
And at, and at the same time, you know they're doing all the collaborations. Like yesterday I was at Grilled you know, having a burger, and then next to me a Barbie burger came, which is pink in color. Someone was eating that. So at the same time, like what we are also targeting as our product, we are approaching cafes as well mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that because it's a very versatile snack, like peanut butter flavor, you can use it with, you know your porridge or, you know, you're having a moose bowl in the morning, you can throw onto that. Plus it can go very well with soups as well, right? Mm-Hmm. It's nice in winter you make a soup and you can have some you know, throw in some hot water release seeds and have it with the soup. Mm-Hmm. So that way that's that collaboration we are looking at with some cafes as well. And some in office, a lot of cafes, you know, service customers with new products, you know, to give to their employees. So that would also be our focus market in future mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. But yes, it'll take some time to reach there.
I, I think it's interesting that we mention Barbie and of course marketing budget because there's, there's a trade off too when you don't necessarily have the deep pockets, the marketing budget you guys are touching on a really good point, and that is, it's a time-based investment as well. Like if you can build out that awareness by getting it in front of cafe consumers or employees in their offices, you know, it's kind of that, not so much cafes, but the offices could be considered a gorilla marketing tactic as well, which yeah, it might start small, but we all start somewhere and that's a great, there's no better place than to start with, you know, young office workers, disposable incomes who've got that three o'clock snacking craving. Yeah. Yeah.
And I suspect me up <laugh>.
Absolutely. So what's the immediate next step for Fox Pops?
So first is the short term goal is getting ranged at retailer. That's the short term goal. And alongside, you know, if you will see globally groceries big in e-commerce but Australia is picking up mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, so we'll be focusing on e-commerce as well as it is picking up in Australia. So wherever we can be available, all the marketplaces plus on our own website. So these two are key short term goals to achieve in next six months. And of course finding the, as we discussed, finding the right distribution partner as well. And we anyways talked about the long-term goal as well, which we will keep working on the site because we have to invest time right now on that so we can achieve that later next year. Amazing. So that's how we are allocating our time and, you know, putting our schedule on which days we work on what so we don't actually miss those parts as well.
Where can people find out more about Fox Pops and buy the product today, Melanie and Bavan? Yep.
So we have our website up and running, which is fox pops.com.au. I spell it out for you because we're still working on our ss e o
<Laugh> or, or you. Oh, you can absolutely do that. And we'll also make sure it's in the show notes.
Amazing. And you can also follow us and dmm us if you have any specific questions on all, any of our social media platforms. So we're active on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Thread. We're very easy to find Fox Pops au <laugh>.
Brilliant. Fantastic. Well done. You've done such an incredible job right now. You've definitely captured my attention and I think it's wonderful what you're doing. So I wish you both all the best and I'll be watching and listening closely.
Thanks Chelsea. And just wanted to say again that your festival, oh my God, it was just brilliant, the connections we made, the people we met, the amount we learned. I think we couldn't have had a better start.
Amazing. Thank you.
Well, thank you Chelsea. Thank you for having us on the podcast and yeah, hopefully we will catch up soon.
<Laugh>. Definitely. Bvo my pleasure. Bye for now.
Bye. Thank you.
Okay, that's it for today. Thanks for listening. I hope you found today's insights valuable and that you'll implement those in your food and drink business. I'd like to ask you now to help me help more food entrepreneurs put more money in their pocket by giving me an honest rating. Five Stars would be lovely, but that's up to you. Write a review and subscribe to this podcast on your platform of choice. The more you tell me what you like and the momentum builds for the Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford Podcast, the easier it will be for me to help you land more accounts, get more product in more consumers' hands, and put more money in your pocket. And together we'll keep ensuring consumers have a choice of brands so they don't just stock big food products in their pantries, in their kids' lunchboxes and at their celebrations. So thank you for taking a moment to do that.