Ep155: Why Doing Everything for Everyone Leaves You Exhausted and How to Stop with Megan MacCutcheon

Ever catch yourself packing everyone’s lunches, smoothing every conflict at work, and composing the perfect text so no one gets upset—then wonder why you’re exhausted and resentful? We dig into the quiet engine behind that burnout: overfunctioning, the reflex to manage other people’s needs, emotions, and outcomes at the expense of your own.

With therapist and maternal mental health specialist Megan MacCutcheon, we map how overfunctioning forms in families, workplaces, and partnerships, and why it always creates its counterpart—underfunctioning in others. No villains here, just patterns. We talk nervous system regulation as the starting line, because clear choices come from a grounded body, not a buzzing one. From there, we trade overexplaining for simple, firm language and introduce boundary stacking: set the limit, don’t re-litigate it, and refuse the pull to repair someone else’s feelings about your choice.

Expect relatable stories: the balloon arch no one photographed, the late-night email drafted ten times, and the lunchbox tailored to every preference. We use them to spot the real “why” behind doing more—validation, control, fear of conflict—and replace it with values-driven decisions and “good enough” standards. We also reframe motherhood and caregiving. Being loving doesn’t mean being limitless; modeling bandwidth, rest, and emotional responsibility teaches kids to function, not lean on you for everything.

You’ll leave with practical tools: a mental load audit to delegate, delay, or drop; quick body checks to prevent anxiety-driven fixes; short scripts that hold the line without drama; and a healthier definition of momentum—forward, intentional, and aligned with your energy. If you’re ready to stop carrying what isn’t yours and reclaim your time, attention, and peace, this conversation will help you take the first honest steps.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs lighter shoulders, and leave a review to help more listeners find us. Your boundaries might be the permission someone else needs to set their own.

This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast

If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health concerns, please contact 988 or seek a treatment provider in your area.

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Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello, listener, welcome back. I'm your host, Dr. Beth Travell. I am glad you are here today. And I am so glad that my um guest and friend Megan is back today. We were sort of catching up before we started recording, and there's just something so special about getting to have this time with fellow therapists. And so I am grateful to all the therapists who take time out of their billable day to be here and for listeners to be um able to tune in to just these uh just so many fun topics that I think are so critical in what we're dealing with today in our kind of world. So I am so thrilled that Megan McCutcheon is back to be here with us today. And Megan, you kind of know the drill. You're like an expert here. You and I could just be, you know, you're basically host alongside me. So you're not actually a guest anymore once you come on more than what, four times or five times or something. I don't know. You're like a regular. Tell us what's been happening for you. Introduce yourself and tell us something fun that's going on. Oh gosh, I always forget to prepare for that question, even though I never done that.

Year Of Shedding And Horse Energy

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I forgot. Um, yeah, so um I'm Megan McHutcheon. I'm a therapist in the Northern Virginia area, and I specialize in maternal mental health. Gosh, something fun that's going on for me. It's I've been seeing all these posts on Instagram about 2025 being the year of the snake and the year of 2026 being the year of the horse. And so I am really embracing that and embracing this idea. And I'm really like, I guess Chinese New Year doesn't start. We're recording now in January 2026, and Chinese New Year doesn't start until February something. But what's going on for me is I'm just really embracing this idea of shedding, shedding, shedding, shedding the old and looking forward to 2026 being like a new fresh year.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I love this. So um I shared with Megan last time, maybe not on the recording, but I shared with Megan last time that I am a part of her newsletter, like kind of email that Megan sends out. And it's one of the few that I actually read. You know, you sign up for things or you don't sign up for things, and then randomly get you get things. I remember reading your uh message about this idea, and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to ask her more about this because this idea of horse is so interesting to me. And so I'm curious, you know, what is the part of you that is like really loving this shedding? And so what is kind of one of your focal points that you're you're focusing on for shedding? And what does the horse, you know, what's the horse in you?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, it's it's so funny. I first of all, I totally forgot that you were one of the people that replied to me and loved that newsletter. I don't think I've sent another one since, but it ties us right into where we're gonna go today, which is talking about overfunctioning, because that's for me, like really what I'm shedding. This I've identified with this concept of overfunctioning and like, you know what, it's burning me out and I don't want to do it anymore. And so leaving that behind. Yeah. And getting into the horse energy where it's like you're moving forward, you're momentum forward, but you're also being really um discerning and intentional about what you're choosing to be a part of and what you're not.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

It's so good. And it does, it does feel like those two things go together.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I feel like we're totally just talking off the cuff here, but it sounds like so rehearsed and planned because our topic's just like right into it.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Well, I want you to kind of define overfunctioning for listeners as, you know, in case they haven't heard it, but I think it's also so interesting to think about momentum as not just being like, you know, a wild horse that's just running and there's no um stopping it, because I think that that's at the heart of overfunctioning. Where the heart of what you're describing is we are momentum and forward moving, but not to every yes that I should have said no to.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah. Yeah. It's we want to come at it from a more regulated place. So not this like wild out of control running, but more of a I'm grounded and I'm running towards the things that uh fill my cup, that light me up, and not necessarily towards like every shiny object.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Okay. So tell us how you talk about overfunctioning. And I'm not, you know, I don't need the like fancy pants definition, but when you see this in clients, this idea of overfunctioning, how do you kind of describe it for them?

The Mental Load And Managing Emotions

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah. So I can't even remember when this like word came, where I first saw it, where I first identified with it, but I just love it. And I'm like, oh yeah, like I'm doing that in some of my relationships, um, in just, you know, my my life, my world. And um, I'm seeing it show up in so many different clients. And the way I describe it is sort of like when a client is putting so much effort and energy into like managing themselves, but also everyone else's experience. Um, sometimes we'll talk about like type A people. Um, sometimes it kind of ties into like people pleaser energy. But what I started seeing with I work with a lot of women. And so I started seeing that a lot of these women were like so exhausted and so burnt out. And as we start looking at what's going on, I'm like, oh yeah, you are, you're overfunctioning. You are whether it's physical, like doing all the things, like being the default parent, managing all the things, you know, in the household or managing all the things at work, being the person that's constantly going above and beyond. Um, or just sort of mentally, like I'm seeing a lot of people just their mind is constantly spinning and running and thinking about like how do I keep the peace with everybody else in my life? How do I function in a way that ends up being over functioning because it's also functioning for other people?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, I wrote down we're spending so much effort managing other people's experiences.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Experiences, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah, which goes further than I'm packing everyone's lunches.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

It's like I'm packing everyone's lunches and I am going to the store because I forgot that one child likes the strawberry uncrustable and I ran out. And I also want to make sure that it's not too hot or too cold because one child prefers it this way. And oh, now my spouse really wanted a smoothie for lunch tomorrow. And so now I have to make a smoothie tonight at 10 o'clock because I forgot about that. So it's it's not just the physical act that you're talking about, though that might be an important part of it, but it's the experience of those other parts.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah, and all that mental load that comes with having to remember which child likes peanut butter, which child doesn't. Are they gonna be mad at me if I mix up and pack the wrong fruit or pack the wrong thing? If I forget to buy this at the store, you know, is it gonna cause somebody to be upset, somebody to have a meltdown? So there's just like a lot of energy that goes into that. And where it can become a problem is where people start beating themselves up for, you know, my child came home and complained that they didn't like their lunch. Are you then feeling like, well, I'm a bad parent, or my spouse is upset because I forgot to pick up X, Y, and Z at the grocery store. So are you making meaning out of that, sort of beating yourself up, thinking like I'm a failure?

Distraction, Burnout, And Resentment

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yep. I love that. I I mean, I resonate with that. I think I see that. And a lot of people, I think the other thing that I experience, even in my own life, and maybe others too, is that overfunctioning then also becomes a distraction for me and the other things that I'm actually supposed to be doing. So my middle schooler misplaced something. Shocker of the year. If you're raising a middle schooler, it happens like 40,000 times a day. But anyway, he misplaced something. And it this is like one of the things about me. There's lots of things, frankly, but this is one of the things about me that when somebody is missing something, it's like I can't just like let them look for it. I I feel the urge to have to get up and look for the dog on shooting shirt. And I'm like, I don't even know where you were last week when we may or may not have left it at the gym or in the car or in somebody else's car, or that we would call overfunctioning, wouldn't we?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah, I think it definitely can be. And I think it comes from this nervous system reaction of, oh my gosh, there's chaos, things can't be found, therefore I have to soothe the situation by jumping in to solve it. And we're often trying to like soothe our own anxiety, but we're trying to manage and soothe everybody else's experience. We're trying to anticipate and sometimes get ahead of their experience. It results in the overfunctioning person like really carrying that emotional load uh 24-7 sometimes. And it's just exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah. You know, I looked back and was like, well, now I'm distracted from the things that I kind of wanted to get done between four and five thirty. And so now that I've spent the last 20 minutes looking for this thing, now I also didn't get my other thing done. And so now that adds to my layer of stress. And, you know, the other thing I wrote down, you know, you talked about beating self up. I'm, you know, maybe spinning this to include distraction, but then also resentment.

Overfunctioning Creates Underfunctioning

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I was just that was exactly what I was gonna say. If you didn't, yes, it leads to a resentment. Absolutely. Yeah, because it's imbalance because for one person in a situation to overfunction, somebody else has to underfunction.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Okay, say it again for the people on the back.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Yeah. In a in a situation, whether it's a partnership, a relationship at work, whatever the case is, when one person is overfunctioning, somebody else or multiple somebody else's are underfunctioning.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

You have overfunctioning, you also have underfunctioning. And that's where the resentment piece starts to build.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah. Okay. So I want to unpack that just a little bit because I think that's so important. And it's also so important to absolutely, okay. Well, I'm gonna say it, and then you can just be like, no, Beth, that's not really what we're talking about. But I think sometimes, even in my own life, I'm like, I, you know, now I can say I'm overfunctioning. I'm not sure I've used that term before. But then, and to your point, like when one person is overfunctioning, that means other people are underfunctioning, but that doesn't always mean that it's happening on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Right? What's your brain thinking about that particular part?

Patterns, Origins, And No Villains

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking I've got I've got examples popping up too that I'll share. But I think um, you know, nobody's the bad guy here. The overfunctioner isn't the good guy, the underfunctioner isn't the bad guy. Yes, I love it. Both coming at it from some um, a lot of times unconscious driving factors. A lot of it goes back to things that happened in childhood and roles that you assumed and just dynamics and patterns that sort of develop over time. You know, it's it's difficult to get out of because it becomes so insidious and you're so trapped in it. And so there's a lot of reasons that, and sometimes they're conscious, sometimes they're unconscious, sometimes they're easy to like pick apart and see, sometimes not. But what happens is it develops this pattern that's dysfunctional. And both people are engaging in patterns that are dysfunctional. Um, let me give an example. So I'm thinking of somebody who um tends to get into a lot of conflict with a parent, her mom. And a lot of times we see, you know, she's coming in and she's talking about like, my mom did this um immature thing and she sent me this ridiculous text. And we're seeing, okay, how the mom is kind of like creating a lot of drama and having some of her own stuff. But the daughter is overfunctioning by constantly like catering to the mom's ridiculous demands or coming in to soothe her when, oh, this, you know, you thought you were mad at me and let me explain. A lot of times overfunctioners overexplained. And so we're trying so hard to, you know, justify or let me, if I could just say this in a way that you would understand, this conflict would lessen, but the overfunctioner is then like reinforcing this dynamic, and then the underfunctioner keeps kind of, you know, doing whatever they're doing. And it's hard. And it's not necessarily that anything, anyone's coming at it right or wrong. Yeah. But it becomes this pattern that's really hard to break out of. And so, you know, when I'm working with people who are starting to identify as overfunctioning, the work is really helping them to see the patterns and the ways in which they're engaging in overfunctioning and how can they kind of take a step back and start making some shifts. Often that's setting boundaries. Um, one of the one of the phrases that I've been, you know, really thinking about is less is more. Do not overexplain. Say your point, period. It's on the other person to then, you know, metabolize that and do what they will with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

I love everything. I mean, I love your, you know, very specific saying, like, we're not saying overfunctioning is right or wrong and underfunctioning is right or wrong, good or bad. I think it's more about illuminating these patterns that could be um problematic in relationships, in your um, your own health or wellness. So if you're a person who's um identifying with this idea of overfunctioning and you are kind of chronically stressed, you know, you're trying to be on a path toward wellness, this may be something to pay attention to as we're thinking about these patterns. I think about, you know, how you were kind of like, hey, some of this comes because of these sort of ways of doing things. Our biases point us in this direction. And the person that we are in relationship with doesn't have that bias. They don't, and they don't actually care about that thing. And so I find sometimes too that it's it's also this um difference and expectation about whatever the situation is. And because sometimes we don't talk about those things, we don't have communication about those things, that is when it might become problematic for the overfunctioner to then just think or keep doing because they feel like it just has to be done. But the under functioner in this particular case may not even know.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah.

Less Is More And Clear Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 15:14

They may not even know that it matters. They may not even know that it is something that that is so important to you that's burning you out. And we just haven't had that conversation about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, yeah. And I think um those having those conversations are so important. And sometimes where things get really tricky is that overfunctioners will try to have those conversations and they'll over-explain and they'll try and get it perfect, and they'll try and say it in a way that like manages everyone else's emotions and experiences, and then it backfires because it's the you know, the the person that's receiving the information gets flooded. It's too much, it's not set up in a way they could hear. Sometimes they get defensive, sometimes they feel criticized or attacked. It often for underfunctioners turns into like triggering shame responses. And so it can create just a bigger divide, more conflict, more shutdown. More resentment. More resentment. Yeah. Yeah. In both directions. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, in both directions. I mean, I think that's an important thing to say out loud, too, is that it's not just the overfunctioner who is resenting the under-functioner. It's also that the under-functioner may resent the overfunctioner for constantly the the under-functioner might see it as like unnecessary effort or energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Or like you don't trust me to do it, or I never get like a lot of times we hear like, I can never get anything right with you. Or um, yeah, I just I never I never can please you.

Expectations, Miscommunication, And Shame Triggers

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yeah. You know, I was in a conversation just uh last week where I was talking to some folks that were, you know, in leadership positions, kind of middle management leadership positions, and they were talking about putting on this event that they were working together to put on. It's interesting because then I didn't, I didn't necessarily think about it. But as I'm looking back, the way it played out was these folks were putting on this event, and they were spending hours and hours and hours on these minute details that they really felt were going to kind of make this event special. And so they went to three different stores to find the right color flowers to put in the center of the tables, and they spent, you know, hours making this balloon arch, which, which Megan, you know, can we just can we just like not ever have to do a balloon arch again? I don't know. It feels like one of the seven layers of hell to me. I've done it a couple of times, and they are beautiful, but holy balloon blower. What a sidebar. So anyway, they went through all this struggle and then um they ended up like even in this conversation, they were like, and we were so mad because nobody even took a single picture in front of this balloon arch, you know? And I think back to that, you know, obviously this is a a kind of a simple example, but and I hope they weren't harboring like, you know, long-term resentment about this. But it they were kind of statements of resentment. Like they were they were irritated that nobody uh appreciated all of the time that they put into this hard work. But then they also were like, I guess maybe nobody really cared about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah. And that makes me think about like when somebody's overfunctioning, like thinking about what's their why. You know, when you kind of go back to it, like there was this unspoken why of we want people to appreciate it, we want people to enjoy it, we want people to have a good time. And that might look like them appreciating the decor and taking pictures of it and saying thank you and commenting and all that. And it burnt them out. So if, you know, they had gone in, like, I love balloon arches, like I love blowing up balloons. I really want to do this because it brings me joy. Uh, but it sounds like there was some, yeah, I want the validation for it. And I think a lot of times, like, you know, I mentioned the over-explaining. I think people sometimes go into this, like, I want to explain and I want to take care of everything and I want to manage everyone's emotions because then everything will be calm and nice. And when that doesn't happen, it's like, I didn't do it for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

It's so interesting how how slippery that slope is into, yeah, like now I am kind of irritated and I'm irritated mostly at myself for not, you know, maybe setting boundaries or maybe not evaluating what my why was before I put in all this effort. And I can see how that could turn into sort of a spiral.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah. And we're not saying like, don't put effort in, you know, your um event planner people might go to another party the next weekend where somebody else put the effort in and it feels balanced. But if you're the one that's always doing the thing, saying the thing, trying to manage the experience for everybody else to come and enjoy and have a good time, then it's burnout.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

I am reminded of what you said kind of at the beginning, right? Which was the overfunctioning at the heart is like what is driving your desire to do all the things.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And if it's coming from this place of like dysregulation or I need to calm myself or I need to make sure everyone else is calm, or some version of that, then perhaps we need to take a step back. That's kind of what you mentioned earlier. Like, let me take a step back. And then I'm wondering when we take that step back, what are some reflective things that you encourage people to think about during that step back?

Motivation, Validation, And The Balloon Arch

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah. Well, I'm really big on the nervous system regulation stuff. So I think one of the things is checking in with your body. Like, how are you feeling? Are you feeling this like buzzy, tense energy, or are you feeling calm and grounded? And if you're not feeling calm and grounded, like the immediate work there is how do I get into a space where I can come at this from a more clear-headed space? Um, I think like I also mentioned the idea of like over functioners tend to overexplain. So how can you think about whatever message you're trying to deliver or whatever you're trying to do in the most simple and direct way? Maybe for the, you know, event planners, it's I want people to have a good time, but I don't need to go overboard. I don't need to go over the top. The the we have a fun time can be a little simpler. Maybe we don't need the balloon art. Yeah. And and the other big thing is really watching out for not trying to manage other people's process. So in the event planning, there might be this I want everybody else to appreciate this. I want them to have a good time. And are you doing it for you because you enjoy that, or are you doing it because you think that's what other people want or that's what other people need? So really stepping out of the trying to anticipate everyone else's. Mood everyone else's need. And then I'm going back to the lunchbox example. You know, yeah, it's great to be able to give our kids what they want for lunch. But if you're bandwidth, if you don't have the bandwidth, just giving them something and not worrying about is this going to be what they like? Are they going to be mad at me?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah. I mean, I love this push toward balance. And I want to make sure that I am reflecting back what I'm hearing you say because I think it's so important, right? That there are seasons of all of our lives where we might have the bandwidth to make sure that everybody is, you know, just tickled pink with what they're showing up to school in their lunchbox with.

unknown 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

But there are also seasons where it's really okay. And I I want to maybe take one step further and say that which your brain tells you is the worst case scenario if you don't do the thing, probably is not going to happen.

unknown 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

You know, it's like I think sometimes we get trapped in that lie of like, well, if my kid doesn't get the strawberry uncrustable, then he's not going to eat. And then he's going to, you know, we go to the pediatrician and he's going to say, I didn't feed him enough. And then we're going to live in a van by the river.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

You know, like that's just how we our brains catastrophize. They go to worst case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. One of the phrases that I use a lot is like, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. For right now, all you have to worry about is pack the lunch that you can stay calm about. You can move on with your day. If you end up in the van by the river, you know, we will deal with it then. But nine times out of 10, like these things just aren't happening. It's not as catastrophic as our brains like to think.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

And I think it's just a good reminder for all of us, you know, that it's like, yeah, sometimes that that thing that feels most imminent right now is not even going to be a thing that happens.

Nervous System Checks And Simpler Choices

SPEAKER_01 23:59

And you're not responsible for that thing. So if your kid comes home and they're mad because they didn't get the strawberry uncrustable, like, I'm sorry that, you know, you didn't get the lunch you want, but I'm not going to feel guilty. I'm not going to take the blame for it. So it's a lot of like setting boundaries. It's a lot of kind of like standing in your own peace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Okay. So we're going to talk about that one again for just a hot second. So you said, you know, I'm not responsible for that.

unknown 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

No. I absolutely agree. So I'm not, I'm not challenging this idea because I absolutely agree with it. I think there are some, I mean, I'm going to say moms. I'm not saying that dads aren't, you know, they're precluded from this feeling. But I do think that there are moms that sometimes feel this load, particularly stay-at-home moms. I think that they are probably, in my experience, the most susceptible to this sort of erroneous expectation that like it is their responsibility because their job is to be a mom. And so it's their responsibility to do all the things, you know? And so what do you say about that? You're getting me like fired up here.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

I know, I can tell. There is a societal pressure. I think there's messaging that, you know, women are the caretakers, they're the nurturers, they're the ones that often are the default parents, not all the time. A lot of great stay-at-home dads out there. But oftentimes there's this messaging that women carry it all and they carry the burden and they they take care of everyone else, they nurture everyone else's emotions. The problem is when that message gets translated to I do all this at the expense of my own needs and my own well-being. And I think that just happens so much for people, moms especially, where their own needs get pushed to the back burner. And that's when they, you know, end up, they wind up slowly and subtly it happens that they wind up the overfunctioner and their needs are being dismissed and not met. And it's not because anyone's necessarily like, you know, setting out to, I'm gonna ignore your needs. It's just this like subtle thing that happens.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

And I think because sometimes we believe that that is the most important or the only part of our identity, yeah. That then it's like, well, there I never take my mom hat off.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

You know, and so if I'm never taking my mom hat off, then I don't ever, you know, you said earlier, like I don't I don't ever fill up the cup of the other parts of me that that are are still parts of me.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah. And that's a lot of the work that I do with moms, is there's this like, well, I can't like drop the ball, I can't disappoint my child, I can't, you know, I have to do everything all the time. And it's like, actually, what are you teaching them? You're setting them up for potential underfunctioning. What we want to model to our children is moms are humans that have a bandwidth, that have their own range of emotions, that sometimes need to drop a ball or two in order to take care of themselves.

Catastrophizing And Crossing Bridges Later

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah, it is almost like it becomes a a sign. Yeah. Right? It's almost like some of the like maybe a mistake or a ball that dropped becomes the signal for that person to be like, actually, maybe I need to do something else.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah. Yeah. If you feel really depleted, if you wind up in the shame spiral and the guilt about dropping the ball, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Oof. Okay. If we have listeners here that are like, yep, this is me. Raising my hand, sitting in the back, I'm an overfunctioner. What are some things that an overfunctioner can begin to do to take even small steps?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah. Really starting to pay attention to your own needs, making sure you're not dismissing them, noticing when you have resentment built bubbling up, when you have anger, when you have sadness, and starting to recognize like, what's going unmet here? How can I notice? How can I start speaking up for what I need? One of the things I think about is like, don't dim your own light. You know, let yourself be important. Um, and really starting to speak up for yourself, really starting to um set some clear boundaries. And I want to also say that as people start to do that, it's going to feel uncomfortable at most. Um, an example that I had with somebody I'm working with is um setting an example uh setting a boundary with a parent who was being um difficult and, you know, just causing a lot of a lot of drama and was supposed to pick up the child from daycare. And the client ended up being like, you know what, mom? I'm actually gonna go get her today. Don't need your help anymore. You know, she said it that it's the delivering it in a like a clear, concise, polite way and then not worrying. The overfunctioner would be like, oh my gosh, she's gonna be so mad at me and I can't do that. But what your need was was I need to disengage. I need to not see my mom later when I go pick up my daughter. I need to just have some space from her. And so I'm going to say, change of plans. I'm going to pick her up today. I no longer need you to, period. And people struggle with those setting the boundaries so much because they're so hard. It's exercising a new muscle that you haven't built up. And the other person on the receiving end is usually angry and doesn't like that. But it's sitting through that discomfort and really knowing that you are doing it not to create drama, but to keep peace within yourself and to start allowing your peace to matter.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I mean, all of this. Just it's just all of this. So many people struggle with boundaries for exactly what you're describing. We think, oh yeah, I'm just gonna set a boundary. I'm gonna tell them no. But people, you know, families function, relationships function, even if they're dysfunctional, they're functioning at a dysfunctional level. And so when any part of that family or relationship disrupts the way in which you're currently functioning, it's not gonna be met with sunshine and rainbows, usually. Right, right. It disrupts the balance. Some of the reasons folks maybe aren't great at boundaries right away, like flexing that muscle, like you're talking about, is because we don't anticipate and prepare ourselves for a negative reaction. I think sometimes we're like, well, I'm just gonna tell them. Okay, so once I tell them, then what's gonna be my next boundary, right? We think the we think the first boundary is the only boundary.

Motherhood, Identity, And Invisible Labor

SPEAKER_01 30:42

And that's where we slip often into that repeating the dynamic, over functioning. Well, I'm sorry. The reason I X, Y and Z and just period, like this just is what it is, and refusing to be pulled into that trap. It's really hard. It is hard to break out of, but it's so worth it in the long run. But yeah, yeah, like knowing that there's gonna be some complication, some upset, and overfunctioners are so used to managing everyone else's experience, as we've said, that they don't want to upset other people. But what's happening is they're burning out and they're doing they're managing everybody else at the expense of their own well-being. And so to shift out of that is gonna be ruffling some feathers. And that's okay. And you don't have to then again slip back into overfunction.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I think that that's that's the part about boundaries that I think mainstream mainstream understanding hasn't mastered yet. That the real setting of a boundary is like three boundaries together. It's like, here's the boundary, I'm going to do this, you know, for the example of the car, like I'm gonna pick them up. You're not. That's the first boundary. But then the second boundary is, and I'm not gonna call you back when you call me six times because you're mad at me.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

You're mad at you.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

And then the third boundary is I'm not gonna text you later.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Because I know you and I both meet.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

And take care of your hurt feelings. Right. In this example, the mom needed to go sit with her hurt feelings and deal with it herself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah. Okay. So something else I was thinking about as we kind of started along this path was I think sometimes, so we you kind of mentioned like one of the things that we can do is start to pay attention to what we need.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

And I wrote down what are our needs. I think sometimes, even at that level, because we, you know, you also said like one of the things you say a lot is don't dim your own light. And I think there might be some people listening that are like, I have a light.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

I think sometimes as parents, we just forget, like, we're we're like a whole person outside of that hat that we're wearing as a mom or a parent. And so I think maybe that is the first struggle for some people is to really pause to say, what is it that I need? And and I started to think about one of the things that I say sometimes when I have a stressful day and this is not healthy for me, and I know this and I'm working on it. So don't email me about this, listener. Is sometimes I say, like, I need an Oreo, but I don't actually need an Oreo. That's not the kind of needs we're talking about. You know what I mean? Like, oh, I need to catch up on my episode on Netflix. When we have to really stop to think about like what are my needs right now, it just takes so much pausing, so much allowing the discomfort within us to say, I have needs and that's okay. And that might be the first difficult thing for people to say.

First Steps: Needs, Boundaries, Discomfort

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah. Yeah. You're making me think of a couple other examples I want to bring up because I think it really helps people to see it in real time. And so thinking of two different times this came up in the past few weeks. One is a client who went on a girls' trip. She came back from the girls' trip and noticed how much her stress spiked again going to work. And we were unpacking how much she overfunctions in the context of her workplace, in terms of dealing with a difficult employee and having to send an email to this person. And she gets so wound up in like, how is this email gonna land? Is she gonna be angry? What's she gonna do with it? And just notice that in doing that, like your need, like she was losing sleep. She was waking up at 3 a.m. thinking about how am I going to um respond to this person or am I gonna wake up to an angry email in my inbox? And I was like, your need for like a good solid night's sleep is being is not being met because you're so worried about how this other person is going to handle it. And I'm like, you did your job. You wrote a nice email, you were kind, you were respectful, you maintained um, you know, uh, you maintained a professional relationship. Like, that's it. You are overfunctioning when you're stressing so much. The other example that um came up just this week was um a mom who's experiencing grief from a loss. And she had um somebody in her circle reach out and send her a text message and said, you know, um, I had a loss 20 years ago, like a long time ago. And I know, you know, sometimes it still hurts on what would have been the child's birthdays and miscarriage situation. And the woman was struggling so much with how do I respond to this message? And I was like, Well, let me give you some ideas and you tell me how they land for you. I was like, what if you just said, thank you, your support means a lot. And she was like, but I didn't acknowledge her loss. And I said, but she didn't reach out to you because she needed you to take care of her. She reached out to you because she wanted you to know that she's supporting you. And it was so interesting. And it was this moment of like clarity of like, oh, I am overfunctioning and feeling like I always have to take care of other people. I can't just be the receiver of support. And I think women do that so often.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

So often. And I think, you know, because those of us who are nurturing, those of us who, you know, really identify with our identity, um, keep it at the forefront as mom. Yeah, I just think it's really hard. And without a way to describe it or a way to like disrupt it, I just think it's easy to maintain the peace. It's it's almost like it's its own catch 22. Because at the heart of overfunctioning is wanting to keep the peace, like wanting to make sure everybody and I'm gonna, even at the expense of my own well-being, I'm gonna do, do, do all the things and BBB all the right things. And when we don't do that, it disrupts that. And so it's just such a like a I'm sure it's just so tempting for so many of us just to go right on back into it.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

And it's so sneaky, and there's this like core underneath um drive to I want to be liked, I want to be seen as good, I want to be seen as kind and caring. Yeah, and we can be that without overfunctioning.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Yeah, yeah. We can be that, we can be great mothers, great partners, great friends without having to have it make us feel burned out, like we're not doing enough. I don't know, kind of all the things.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah, and I guess like where my brain's going is like for I just imagine there's listeners out there that are like thinking of a specific scenario in their life and they're like, but I have to overfunction here because whatever ball might get dropped. So I want to add like chronic overfunctioning. When there are gonna be times in your life, there are gonna be areas, there are gonna be instances. As a mom, you're always overfunctioning for your kid because you're the mom and they're the kid. Um, but when you're chronically doing it at on all of the different places and all of the areas of your life, and that's kind of your habitual way of being, it's really, it's really damaging.

Boundary Stacking And Holding The Line

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Yeah. Well, I think too, I think about folks who are doers and they're kind of busy just by nature. What I'm hearing you say is the differentiation between that and overfunctioning is really the detriment to our own well-being. But then also like the fuel that fires that busyness isn't I have too many things to do. It's I feel like if I don't do these things, X bad things are going to happen. Right. Because I think there are times where they're not gonna like me, they're gonna think I'm see. I don't know if we can swear on here. Yes, right. Because that's for me the difference in like, hey, I'm in a busy season, I've got four kids and they're all in sports, and you know, we got this wedding coming up this weekend, and you're you're gonna have to overfunction. Yeah. Which just, you know, in a in a different definition is I have to do more than I usually do on a Tuesday. Yes. But that's not the kind of overfunctioning we're talking about here. And so I'm glad that you are kind of differentiating that.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah. When you're chronically going after everything, anticipating other people's moods, needs, how they're gonna be, and feeling like you have to manage everything for everyone. And that you're I think the emotional piece too is really big.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, yeah. And that you're responsible for that. Okay. It's so good. I love it so much. Okay. Um, so Megan, how do people find you? And you've written books and all the things and newsletters and Instagram and all the things.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah. So the easiest way is probably online. Megan McCutcheon.com is my website, and you can find my therapy practice through there, and you can find my Instagram and all the resources. I've been posting some blog articles and some Instagram posts on the topic we're talking about today. So, yeah, if you want to know more, feel free to follow along.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

I love that. I'll make sure I have it in the description so people can know how to spell your name because sometimes I have to keep looking back. It's not that it's really all that hard, but you know, you just want to make sure you get all the letters in the right.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah. And the whole MAC versus M C C thing is always confusing.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

You know, it's sometimes when you have a tricky last name or first name, really, it's like oh, and there's like eight gazillion spellings of Megan.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

So yeah, you can you can link it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

I'll I'll put it there so people don't have to go searching it up. But anyway, I am so glad that you um came back today. You suggest being here. It just thrills me to get to spend time with you. And it's just always, I just feel like every time we start talking, it's like, here's where I thought we were gonna go. Yeah. And then it's like so much better than where I thought we were gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Okay. I always find it so fun, like for my brain. I feel like there, my brain's going in so many different directions, like so many, whatever you say brings up so many thoughts and examples. And so it's kind of this challenge and like, can I speak clearly and coherently when I have so much bubbling up? So it's kind of a fun little uh challenge for my mind, my mind-mouth connection.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

It's amazing. Well, listen, you were brilliant. I love that as always, and um, so yes, I'm just glad for that. And listener, I'm glad for you to be here um till the very end of the episode. I'm grateful for that. And um, yeah, if there's uh thoughts you have for Megan, reach out, thoughts for me. Obviously, you can reach out to me. And uh until next time, stay safe, stay well. Ciao