Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep178: OCD In Kids, Explained Clearly with Sierra Dator
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OCD in kids can hide in plain sight and it rarely looks like the stereotypes. If you’ve ever watched your child get stuck on a “not right” feeling, repeat a question for reassurance, or redo a routine until it clicks, you already know how confusing and exhausting it can be for the whole family. We sit down with licensed clinical social worker Sierra Dator to translate what’s really happening in the OCD cycle, using clear language parents can actually use at home.
We break down obsessive compulsive disorder into its two moving parts: obsessions (sticky, intrusive thoughts) and compulsions (the actions or mental rituals that bring short-term relief). A big focus is the stuff you can’t see, like internal checking, mental counting, and quiet rituals that keep parents guessing. We also draw a practical line between generalized anxiety and OCD, including why OCD thoughts can feel stranger, more random, and harder to dismiss, and why giving the pattern a name can reduce shame instead of creating it.
From assessment tools like the Yale-Brown checklist to the treatment that works best, we get specific about exposure and response prevention (ERP therapy), why it’s considered the gold standard for pediatric OCD, and what it looks like when you’re pacing ERP for a child’s development. We also talk about parents as part of the process, how progress can “snowball” once one symptom shifts, and why early intervention can keep OCD from getting entrenched over the years.
If you know a parent who’s quietly worried, share this with them, then subscribe and leave a review so more families can find evidence-based OCD help.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health concerns, please contact 988 or seek a treatment provider in your area.
If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: Podcast Application Form
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
www.bethtrammell.com
Welcome Back And Guest Intro
SPEAKER_01Hello, listener. I'm here, Help, Dr. Baster. I'm glad you're here. Um, it is another day for our podcast, Things You Learn in Therapy, and I have an amazing guest who is coming back again. I always love, I do love you so much. I love um Sierra just gave uh a great pointer thumbs up that she's back, and we're we're glad she's here. So Sierra Dater is here, and I just always love the way our conversations are just really fluid and uh just two people talking about important things that happen in therapy. And so today, I'm sure, is gonna be very similar. So thank you for saying yes to being here and introduce yourself to listeners in case they didn't hear your first couple of episodes. Um and if you haven't heard uh Sierra's episodes, I'd encourage you to go back because there's always so many amazing nuggets. And so um, yeah, can you introduce yourself? Tell us something fun you've got going on right now.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um my name is Sierra Dater. I'm a licensed clinical social worker. I've been in practice for about 24 years. Um, my work centers around working with youth, parents, adults, um, really spanning the age and spectrum of development, which I really love. I'm a super big uh child development nerd. I love thinking about growth and development and seeing um how the kind of life span um throughout therapy. I love working with older adults. My oldest client is in their 80s, and my youngest is, I think, a first grader. Um, tomorrow is my best friend since fourth grade. Um, it's her birthday tomorrow. So I know not everybody has a friend that friendship that has spanned that length. We live on opposite sides of the country. We have um very different lives, but tomorrow's her birthday, and I used to want to be her. She had like this like long mullet hair and these like puffy bangs from the 80s, and like my straight hair just couldn't do it. So I've always been envious of her. And tomorrow's birthday.
Long Friendships And Letting Them Breathe
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love this. So how are you gonna celebrate her on her birthday?
SPEAKER_00Um, just send her a message, and then I see her every summer. So we usually go out and celebrate and get into a little bit of trouble, not too pick up trouble. I'm a therapist here.
SPEAKER_01I love this. You know what? It's so interesting because I am talking with my um now senior daughter, um, she's getting ready to go to college and she's kind of in this phase of, you know, what's gonna happen to my friendships.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And, you know, I think you you kind of rarely hear about these like super long-term friendships. And, you know, if you were to give someone the key to what has kept this friendship since fourth grade, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I think allowing for the ebb and flow. Like when I went to college and she stayed in our hometown, like the first year I came home, we were super close. And then that kind of drifted a little bit as I didn't go home over the summer. We didn't talk as much. Keep in mind this is also in the era of like not texting, we didn't have cell phones. So, so you know, just allowing for the drift. And I don't talk to her every day now that I live on the West Coast as I have been for the last 20 years, but a constant, a consistent effort to connect. And when I go back home to the East Coast, then I I see her. So just not feeling like you have to be like glued to each other's side for eternity to know that you can have ebbs and flows to the relationship, I think is something to remember. And if you don't talk all the time, it doesn't mean that you're not close.
SPEAKER_01I really love that, and I love the mention of like being intentional because I think um some other therapist friends and I were talking about how friendship is kind of becoming a lost art in some ways that the busyness of the world, I think, sometimes just keeps us from being able to stay closely connected to friends. And so I love this like, you don't have to have a certain number of touch points. You don't have to have a certain number or a certain way of doing this friendship, but the kind of allowing the ebb and flow and then being intentional, um, I really love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think too, like the intentional piece, like a good reflection point can be if you're like caught scrolling, you know, and you're just like, do I really want to be doing this? Maybe I can text my friend from back east, right? Just to make it a little more intentional. I mean, people are on their phones all the time, youth are on their phones all the time. So using your phone in a different way that's more about can like real connection than just scrolling mindlessly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because we kind of say our goal of having social media for most of us is to like stay connected to people. But then it's like we don't
Why OCD In Kids Gets Missed
SPEAKER_01actually stay connected to people, we just scroll. Yeah. So, well, listen, I love this little sidebar that we had, and I am grateful for this little sidebar. But today's topic is actually not related to childhood friendships. No, um, it's about OCD and how it shows up in kids. And so I love um, well, I always love talking to another child focused person uh because that has been my area of focus. I like you love the lifespan. I know that you see folks on the other side of the lifespan. I don't necessarily love that side of the lifespan. Um, but I love teaching lifespan. So you and I could also probably nerd out on all the things growth and development. But I think this idea of OCD is a little bit tricky because a lot of folks have an idea of what they think it is, and we have to rewrite some of that for a lot of people because in kids, sometimes it shows up as washing their hands a lot, but many times it does not show up that way. And so then when our kids are doing things that seem like I wonder why they're doing that, our first inclination is not necessarily to go to OCD. And so I'm just curious how you start opening the door to this conversation with folks around OCD and kind of debunking some of those misconceptions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, in my practice, I have a lot of parents that are seeking therapy for their kids. They already have an idea that it might be OCD, especially if they themselves have dealt with OCD or if they have a parent, because there is this strong genetic component. And while we don't know what the gene is, which I hope in my lifetime, I get to under, you know, that gets unveiled and we get to understand more about OCD. Yeah. So a lot of parents are already bringing their kids in with this notion. Sometimes they're bringing them in and they think it may be just anxiety, and we come to discover that it's OCD. Um, and sometimes I would say more in my older, when I say older, I'm talking like teens, 20-somethings, and into adults. Sometimes people really don't understand that they have OCD. Now, teens, I would say, a lot of them are finding information about different diagnoses or different sets of symptoms through social media. So some of them come in saying, I think I have OCD, as well as you know, older people as well who are using social media. So that's sort of an inroad to in terms of how people land in my office and on my sofa.
Obsessions Versus Compulsions In Real Life
SPEAKER_01So then how do you clarify and kind of really educate folks on what OCD is and what it isn't?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great question. So OCD has that obsessive part. So, you know, it's the two components it's obsessions and it's compulsions. So obsessions are the thoughts. Those are what we might think and what we talked, what I might talk to kids about is like those really sticky thoughts, where like no matter what, it just seems to be coming back over and over and over. And you just can't seem to let it go. Um, it might be really, I don't use this word with kids, but ruminating on those thoughts. And then with that, you're gonna find in what I assess for if somebody has sticky thoughts, because sometimes people have sticky thoughts and there is no compulsion. So compulsion is the action that you're uh someone's doing to get relief from the obsession. So if I put things in this exact order or I even out, uh I bump my leg on my left side and then I even it out on my right side, now I feel better and everything is well. So finding out if there's any actions that they're doing to try and get some relief. Sometimes those compulsions they can be outward. We might think of somebody like washing their hands, like you had mentioned, flicking the light switch. You might hear them counting something out loud. And sometimes those compulsions are internal, where this is where parents sometimes get stuck a little bit because they don't know or they haven't realized that their kid might be doing something internal. So there's lots of checking of things, checked, you know, did I lock my door? Not so much for kids, but for for older folks, you know, and you check and you check and you check and you check, and it seems like no amount of reassurance, or you have to check maybe a particular time. Like I need to do it 10 times, and if I don't get to 10, but you wouldn't see that on the outside.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that you're bringing this up because I think that has been how clinically I have experienced clients with OCD, it's a similar kind of cycle, is that their compulsion is not typically as noticeable, for example. Um, but the way they describe it is like it just doesn't feel right. If I don't step down the stair with my left foot first, I have to go back and do it again because it just doesn't feel right. Like it's like they can't quite describe what the feeling is, but they just know they have to kind of go back and get and quote, get it right, right? Like they've described it that way. And I think sometimes I've had some kids too that their compulsions were anxious checking, like the parents you brought anxiety, like they'll do more like um I need confirmation of things. Like, mom, are you sure that it's gonna be okay? Mom, are you sure that it's gonna be okay? Mom, are you sure that it's gonna be okay? And it doesn't mean that everyone who needs confirmation or affirmation uh has OCD, but that has been one way in which compulsions have kind of shown up for clients that I've had before too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think with OCD, oftentimes not always, but the the obsessive thoughts are a little more strange than maybe your generalized anxiety. Generalized anxiety is really grounded down in reality. You know, what if someone stops being my friend? What if I get in a car accident? Like things that could really happen, um, where OCD is is just a little more strange in that way. And again, it comes with that compulsion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it's I'm so glad that you brought that up as clarification because
OCD Versus Anxiety And Naming It
SPEAKER_01I think that that is the right difference, right? It's like being nervous about not knowing where you're you know, I have a I have a kid in my own house that's like, mom, are you sure that you're gonna pick me up today? You're not gonna forget me. I'm like, bro, I've never forgotten you, but yes, I'm sure. Um, whereas it's um, you know, other kind of more OCD kind of compulsive, obsessive checking is like, are you sure that you're my parents and you're not someone else's parents? Where it's like, where did that even come from? You know, I think sometimes parents are like, I don't even know where this came from. And and that can sometimes be just a symptom of OCD.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so that's why, as you and I talked just a moment before, Beth, before we started this podcast, but to to bring here is why I think it's really important to be able to share with parents and kids what OCD is. And I share with you that early on in my career, I did like everything possible to not give a kid a label. And I've really shifted my thinking over the years and the way that I practice. I think it's really helpful for kids and parents to understand that they have OCD and that it's just that they're not crazy or there's something wrong with them. Lots of people have OCD and it's really treatable. And here's what we can do to help you with it.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I I think as um, you know, you and I have been practicing for about the same amount of time, and I think I, like you, have helped people see that the label isn't something to be ashamed of. If I had diabetes, if I had strep throat, you know, I wouldn't be like, oh, I should feel bad about having this thing wrong with my body. You know, I'm like a person doesn't choose to have OCD. It's not like they're doing it on purpose. Like this is just how their brain and their body works. And so I like you have um kind of strayed away from tiptoeing around things that are just a true part of how you are developing, how you're growing. And now let's help you and your body know what to do.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Yeah, and with that said, towards the end of treatment, I often tell families and kids that when OCD flares, it's usually just a sign that you're stressed. And so if you're stressed out, let's if if you notice OCD coming back, let's check in with yourself. What am I feeling stressed about? And if we can reduce those stressors, then we find that OCD usually goes down. So it's really just a tool in my mind to indicate when there's stress.
SPEAKER_01Speaking of tools, one tool that I um have used a lot in the past is um the Yale Brown um checklist. Uh is that something you use? Are there other tools that you use to kind of help with um maybe gathering more data for families?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do use that. Uh I use that scale in my practice. And, you know, I my approaches often just be where the client's at. So if they are presenting with uh some symptom of OCD, we just might go there first and we might find that other things um pop up. So I use that discretionally. Sometimes if I'm really stumped about what's going on
Checklists, Hidden Symptoms, Less Shame
SPEAKER_00with someone, I might go through it. And that's um the Y Box is a really thorough checklist. So, you know, if you're looking at OCD, it can really, you know, it goes through all the subsets and types, which I definitely wouldn't be able to clarify without looking at it. Um, and so that can be really helpful. But for the most part, even when I do use it, I feel like what the client is reporting to me and through my own just general assessment and knowledge of OCD, that we can find a path forward to help them in working with their symptoms and improving their quality of life.
SPEAKER_01I come from a background of um gathering more objective data with assessments from my school psych um degree. But I like you am like, I don't need to do that, I don't need to do that every time. But I have found that sometimes people are like, oh wait, I I didn't tell you that I do this too. But now that I see it on this checklist, it's like, oh yeah, I have had some thoughts about religion. I have had some thoughts about sexual things that I don't want to talk about. Right. Like I think sometimes seeing I think sometimes seeing them can give them a clearer sense of, okay, so all of this is a part of this same thing. Um, and now I can feel less ashamed about some of those other things that I thought were just me being, I don't know, however they describe it.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I also find though, Beth, that sometimes it feels like kind of like a little bit of a house of cards, meaning like when you work on one piece of OCD, a lot of times everything's um other things that other ways that OCD is showing up in their life. When we start to work on other things, it kind of loosens up everything else and the house of cards falls a little bit, or even entirely, where they feel so empowered in this one way. I mean, one of the joys of working with OCD is seeing the results that people can have, this real tangible and having time where people are like, oh, I can't, I can't believe that I used to like I did that. I don't remember doing that. And you're like, oh my gosh, like this was so big for you that you couldn't do X, Y, and Z without doing X, Y, and Z. And so, you know, I find that working on one piece of OCD that a kid or adult is willing to work on can really loosen it up, that OCD becomes either less present or non-existent in other areas.
SPEAKER_01I I love that. Um, and I love that as a means of hope for folks too, that um sometimes I think it can feel very I don't know. I think there's so many things out there, Sierra, about OCD and how it's you know, the way it's depicted sometimes can make it feel like a really scary big thing that I'm going to have to suffer with for eternity. And so I think it's really hopeful to have folks hear that, that um, as a parent, as a teenager, I don't know. Do you feel like that? Or is that just me like in my own kind of bias around the diagnosis of OCD?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I guess by the time people arrive in my office, they're like ready for some help. Like what is going on, right? So it's not like they're just coming in for, you know, no reason at all. So usually I I find in there's a lot of relief, but I'm catching people when they're ready to figure out what's going on and that they want the help. And, you know, in 2026, the a lot of the stigma, you know, is I wouldn't say it's not that it's not there, but you know, people are much more open
Hope From Treatment And Momentum
SPEAKER_00to talking about mental health. And again, with OCD with that genetic component, you often have a parent that's like, oh, wait a minute, I know that's me, or wait a minute, that sounds a little like me, or my grandma. I mean, the thing with the uh generational piece of OCD is, you know, previous generations didn't really talk about mental health and they might not know that they had mental health, you know. And so with those quiet compulsions, those internal compulsions, you might have had lots of family members dealing with OCD, but you just never knew because nobody talked about it, nobody knew where it was, what it was, or it was all inside, so you couldn't tell anyway.
SPEAKER_01So you have been working with clients with OCD here for a little while now. And if there is a listener, right, I tend to encourage if somebody were to reach out to me and say, I think my kid might have OCD. Who do you have recommendations for who they might see? I usually, I'm curious what your advice to people is. I usually tell people I want them to be a kid-oriented person first and then an OCD specialist second. I mean, because I again to our growth and development nerdiness, I sometimes think if you don't live and breathe young people, you can sometimes misinterpret some of the things they say, the way they say them, the you know, the the part of development they're in, I think can sometimes be misinterpreted as pathology. So I'm just curious, like if there's a listener who is like, I'm I don't know, I might want to find somebody in my area. What is your advice for folks to find the right treatment provider?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I love how you approach that. I think I'm gonna actually take that from you about child first and then um I usually recommend somebody who is also trained
Finding The Right OCD Provider
SPEAKER_00in exposure and response prevention, which is kind of the gold standard treatment for OCD. Um, but I I do that that kid piece, you know, when when parents bring their kids into therapy with me, whether it's for OCD or something else, I tell them that sometimes there's kids that come in and they pop their feet up on my couch and they're like, all right, let's get to work. And then there's other kids, more often than not, that it's a snail's pace. I tell them it's like slow as a snail, stuck in the rain, like we're going so slow. And so as a parent, to really be prepared that we're uh building rapport in the beginning. So it might look like we're just playing games. I want to tell you, we're not just playing games, even though it looks like we're just playing games. So to have someone who's child centered first, I think that's super valid, Beth, because you got to build that connection, you gotta find that inroad. Not all kids want to just jump into the work. The work can feel really scary sometimes because with this exposure and response prevention, it can feel scary sometimes to be exposed to. Maybe the thing that you're fearing. Again, with somebody who is child-centered and really experienced in this approach, it's you're not just throwing them to the wolves and going straight to something that makes them anxious of kind of like a level 10. Yeah. So to go back to your question though, the finding somebody that is trained in exposure and response prevention, you don't, in my opinion, you don't just like talk out OCD or play out OCD. There's some real um interventions and practice and homework that needs to be done or things that you do in the office. You know, a lot of kids might be resistant to doing some stuff out. So some of the first exposures, depending on what their OCD centers around, might be in your office.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I love that. So somebody who kind of specializes in ERP knows enough about kids to know that the process can vary greatly. And I think there are some parts of this with adults, but I see it almost all the time with kids that if there are other parts of their lives, like the the parent might be bringing them in because we they want us to like deal with the OCD, right? Quote unquote. They want us to deal with that. But then, you know, it's like prom is coming up. You know, it's like sometimes in treating young people, you have to really understand the importance of things that sometimes for grownups, you know, parents are like, I don't care what prom is, you have so many of these symptoms, blah, blah, blah. But as a real, like tuned-in therapist, that matters, you know, like if there's other things going on. So I'm bringing up prom as like a really like boring example. But, you know, let's say mom and dad are in conflict. Let's say that, you know, grandma is sick or in the hospital or there's some situation going on, the presenting issue may not always be the thing you talk about every time. Yeah. It's only true of teenagers, but it feels like for me and my work with teens in particular, that giving that ebb and flow, I think has paid off in the long run in my relationship with teenagers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, there are some therapists that practice uh ERP, that you know, they're they're like, we're gonna do a 12-session model, there's not room for anything else. And that, you know, that's just the way that they work in practice, which can be so great and so valid in some ways. And, you know, I would say that I I'm sort of in a different camp where I like some of what that has to offer, but I really am can be flexible. With that said,
ERP With Kids, Parents, And Expectations
SPEAKER_00being able as a therapist to get depending on the age and stage of the child, but being able to also acknowledge that sometimes there's a lot of resistance. Like I, you know, you're saying you want to feel better. I'm telling you, here are some things that we could do that could really help and that I really believe in. And yet we are you're not willing to go there. So, what's that about? So, really being able to address resistance, maybe not so much with the first or second grader, but and uh, you know, also within that, maybe using the stages of change, right? That sometimes I often pull out that trans-theoretical model of change, right? The contemplation, pre-contemplation, contemplation, planning, action, maintenance, relapse. And then I've added my own like little take on it, which is um that relapse leads to growth. So, anyway, just helping people understand where they're at when it comes to making decisions for themselves, not so much for the younger kids. And with younger kids, I just want to throw in um a lot of times, most times, I have parents being a part of that treatment. Um, some of the rapport building might be alone, some of the rapport building might be the three or four of us if they're bringing in both their parents. But with younger kids, parents really need to be a part of the treatment process because you're not going to do exposures on your own as a seven-year-old.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes that's some of the hardest work. And for my trainees, they're just like, I don't think I want to work with kids anymore. It's kind of the it's probably the most consistent phrase I hear. I don't know. Do you hear that from people that like if they don't want to work with kids, they're like, I kind of like working with kids, I just don't want to stay with their parents.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, definitely hear that over the years. On occasion, I feel that way too. But for the most part, um, the population that I work with, they really want to be here. They want to get their kid help. And so they're really invested in doing what they can and um trying to get on board with what's happening.
SPEAKER_01I have often reminded folks and myself to what you're saying, you know. It's like for the most part, I really love parents, and then sometimes I'm like, I want to poke myself in the eye. But I I don't think it's because they intentionally want to be resistant. I think like most resistance in therapy, it is at some sort of subconscious level or it's some sort of self-sabotage level that is ingrained in them. I think most parents, and kids for that matter, are doing the best that they know how, you know, at this moment. And I think that that has protected me in some ways from getting real frustrated with parents or frustrated with uh clients because I'm like, listen, they're just doing their best, you know. I know their best doesn't feel like it's enough or that it's not right or fill in the blank, but that's my own bias, you know? Like I have bias and privilege, and I have these different experiences than what this client or this person is coming in with. And so, yeah, I don't even know how we got on that tangent, Sierra.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I'm also as I hear you say that, I'm just thinking about one way to really, I think, help the process in working with parents is setting the frame for therapy. That, you know, this isn't like a two-session, that it can be really slow. Um, you know, how long it takes really just depends uh on each client. Here is the general framework in terms of we're gonna build rapport, we're gonna help your child, um, if they have the mental capacity to be able to see what they want, which is different than what OCD is telling them, giving them some tools and strategies, giving them working on some exposure and response prevention. And response prevention is that piece where we're not doing the compulsion and we're not creating a new compulsion, which we want to be careful of. And then we've got some maintenance, and that can take that 12 session that that one specific ERP therapist is offering, and it can take a year so or more. So just helping parents really conceptualize that the therapy can take maybe longer than they want, and that they can check in with me if they feel like things aren't moving fast enough that we can talk about that.
SPEAKER_01I love that you share that at the beginning. Um, what to expect to be what you know, some of the ups and downs of the I love that you also offer to come talk to me. You know, let's check in if it feels like you aren't seeing the process you're hoping to see. Um and I think that that gives permission for them to open that door if they need to, because I do think, I mean, you know, therapy is an investment, whether it's a financial investment, a time investment, and folks understanding that it isn't like an immediate return on investment all the time. Like sometimes it is. Sometimes kids will, after the first session, feel a lot of hope. And then three weeks later, they are quote unquote right back to where they started. I always put that in quotes because nobody goes back to where they started. It's a different place because they've had this different experience. But anyway, I love that you do that. And I'm sure that it's really, I'm sure it's really helpful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it makes me feel more solid as a clinician because you know, sometimes there is clients that drop out of there. They're like, well, you know, this isn't working, right? And it's like, well, you know, in my mind, I think, well, you know, like, yeah, it we're not there yet. And um, you know, I I let you know that it just takes time. And so here's some referrals for people who might be able to help you get quicker results.
SPEAKER_01But okay, listen, we went in a lot of directions today. Any last thing that you want to share with folks around OCDE that you thought about coming in?
SPEAKER_00Early intervention
Early Intervention And Where To Find Sierra
SPEAKER_00is is really helpful because a lot of times people may not realize that they have OCD until much later in life. And in that time, it can be really hard to separate what it is that you want and think and what OCD is telling you. Now it's not impossible. Definitely have faith if you're like, holy cow, I'm in my 30s, 40s, 50s, and I just realized that I have OCD. Um, there's so much progress, and and you can definitely get better for sure. Um, but kids who, you know, who are seven, eight, nine, ten or a little older, uh, there's a real advantage to getting them help earlier. It does OCD doesn't have the ability to get as entrenched in the way that they're thinking. And so if you have a kid that you think might be having OCD or even just high-level anxiety, just being able to get them some help can be really great so that they don't have to do all that work when they're in their 30s and 40s and 50s.
SPEAKER_01I love it. I couldn't have said it better myself. So, how do people find you and follow you in the work that you're doing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I have my website, SierraDater.com. I see I'm licensed in the state of California, so I see people online and I see people at my office on Petaluma. Um, separately from that, I have a program for girls that is independent of my therapy practice called WiseGirl Workshops, where I offer in-person workshops for girls and parent workshops online. Sometimes we cover anxiety, not necessarily OCD specific. Um, so that would be more in my therapy work. And you can find wisegirlworkshops.com for more information about that.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Well, listen, I am grateful that you came to talk about this. I think I just always love where we just kind of wind around all things, therapy, and it just is all so fitting and good. And so I'm just glad that you um are always up for that and speak so beautifully and wisely, and just so much great information. So thank you so much for saying yes to being here today. And listener, thank you for um tuning in today. And until next time, stay safe, stay well. Cheer out, friends.
