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Believe in People
Believe in People explores the realities of addiction, recovery, and stigma through conversations with those who’ve lived it.
Featuring voices from across the recovery community - individuals with lived experience, frontline professionals, public figures, and policymakers - offering unfiltered insight into the personal and societal challenges surrounding substance use.
Hosted by Matthew Butler and produced by Robbie Lawson, this award-winning series is a trusted platform for dialogue, empathy, and change.
🎙 2024 British Podcast Award Winner - Best Interview
🎙 2025 Radio Academy Award Nominee - Best Speech & Entertainment
🎙 2024 Radio Academy Award Nominee - Best New Podcast
Believe in People
17 | Michelle Heaton: Recovery, Relapse & Reality TV – Liberty X, Menopause & Mastering Boundaries
Matt is joined by Emmy and BRIT Award-winning singer Michelle Heaton, best known as a member of the pop group Liberty X. In April 2021, Michelle bravely entered rehab to confront her battle with addiction — a decision that marked the beginning of a transformative journey. Now 21 months sober, she reflects on the realities of recovery and shares the tools that have helped her live a healthy, balanced life.
In this heartfelt episode, Michelle discusses the importance of setting boundaries in social situations, the power of peer support, and the strength it takes to ask for help. She opens up about her preventative double mastectomy and hysterectomy after testing positive for the BRCA gene, and how those life-altering decisions shaped her outlook on health and resilience. From navigating public life in recovery to taking on the challenge of Dancing on Ice, Michelle offers honest, practical advice for anyone facing adversity — and proves that lasting change is possible.
If you liked this episode then Michelle returns to Believe in People 18 months later in episode 44 ⬇️
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2SMNgB6kBSnZxPi4vpna9w
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/44-michelle-heaton-fame-fear-fighting-back-addiction/id1617239923?i=1000654401057
Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!
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This is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.
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🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)
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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew
This is a new original recording. Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast. I'm Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator. Today I am joined by Emmy and Brit award-winning singer Michelle Heaton, member of the pop group Liberty X. In early 2021, Michelle bravely checked into rehab to fight her battle with addiction and today, 18 months sober, Michelle shares her story with Renew. So first of all, would you just like to introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_01:I'm Michelle Heaton, and I'm best known for being a singer in Liberty X.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you for joining us today, Michelle. First of all, how was last night?
SPEAKER_01:It was really good. We had a blast on stage at Hull Arena. It was brilliant. It's really nice to get on stage with other acts from your era backstage. A bit carnage
SPEAKER_00:for everybody else. I can imagine it being carnage, but I can imagine it being a lot of fun as well, obviously having so many people
SPEAKER_01:around. Yeah, it really is. But it's so different to where it was in 2001 too when we did the Smash Hits tours and everybody was younger without husbands and wives. So it was way
SPEAKER_00:worse back then. Completely different now. Well, this is your second time in Hull this year, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it is actually. We actually love Hull. I've got to say, because we travel around a lot and we go to different cities and we're not there for very, very long each time we get there. But we've always said Hull is so lovely. You've got a beautiful city.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you. Well, to be fair, I don't know if you'll remember this, but we briefly saw you backstage at the Pride Festival. Now, I didn't know about your story. So when I got home and I told my wife, she said, oh, did you manage to talk to her about addiction? I was like, no. She was like, anyway, she knew your story and I didn't. So, you know, that was when I messaged my producer and, you know, we said, oh, we should have spoke to her. And then that's when we messaged your agent. But I don't know if you'll remember, but we had these snazzy rainbow jackets on backstage. Of
SPEAKER_01:course I do
SPEAKER_00:remember. There you go. Oh, my God. Well, because of that, we wanted to say congratulations on 18. months sober and we've also got your own rainbow jacket as well no way so there you go you've got that oh my god because you didn't say you wanted mine as you were leaving I was tempted to give you it
SPEAKER_01:the girls are going to be so jealous
SPEAKER_00:I was going to wear it today actually I thought she'll remember me if I walk in I'm totally going to
SPEAKER_01:wear that down to the lobby and see what they say oh I love that that's that is wonderful thank you
SPEAKER_00:thank you so 18 months sober
SPEAKER_01:um well coming up to
SPEAKER_00:yes okay yeah so what's that I mean I've listened to I actually listened to your podcast with uh sober dev um okay that was like nine months so obviously it's doubled the amount of time that you've done since then yeah yeah
SPEAKER_02:wow
SPEAKER_00:so what what sort of i guess what sort of change and maybe for the past nine months because i think one thing that you spoke about on that podcast that i did find um enjoyable and you mentioned it just before before we went on was about boundaries and knowing when to leave social situations and when it's the right time for you um how do you feel you've got with that yeah i think
SPEAKER_01:like last night take for example um we we got back to this hotel and then we went to the Sky Rift Top Bar and I was already a bit tired so in hindsight I should have said no but however I went because I wanted to catch up with some of the friends from the other bands and I think with time and The more I'm in recovery, the more I am able to recognize the point at which I need to leave a situation. And don't get me wrong, I never put myself into those situations early on. It's took time. I am around a lot of people who drink and other people who use, and I have to set boundaries for that. And I didn't attempt to put myself through that pain at the beginning. That's really, really important. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you are still nervous or you get anxiety or you still have the obsession over drink or drugs don't go to a party where you know there's going to be loads I mean it's got to be as black and white as that but with time the obsession is lifted using the 12 step program and last night I went and I acknowledged at a certain point that I was getting tired irritable and discontent and when those set in it's time for me to leave and I just left and everybody understands because I've been quite open about my recovery and my addictions and at the end of you have to put yourself first in recovery because unless you're well nobody else around you will be okay you know I put myself in a situation that if I continued to stay that night last night I would have been angry more likely to have relapse you know I'm saying as a general rule of thumb more likely to go to bed and get really irritated that I wasn't up there drinking so I leave before those moments come
SPEAKER_00:yeah I imagine like I've The thing that I found interesting was when you spoke to Sobadev, you said about going to that, it was the Tickled Pink event and it was the first time since lockdown that you'd really been out, first time you had your heels on. And I suppose being in a bar, especially when you first achieve recovery, can be quite challenging. daunting because the problem that you have or had is all around you at that point as well
SPEAKER_01:yeah that was the first event I went to and I remember it like it was yesterday I remember being really really uncomfortable really nervous I thought it was it was time for me to be able to go out and enjoy myself but it wasn't in hindsight I wanted to go because I do a lot of work for the charity and it's and it's something that I've personally been affected with but I just remember standing there and it was a bright event it wasn't like a nightclub it wasn't like everyone was off their face or anything like that it was just a few few glasses of champagne my friends were there they had a couple of glasses and I was just so angry and irritated that I was an alcoholic I think that's the easiest way of saying it I got angry that that I couldn't participate I got angry that I couldn't enjoy that one cool glass of of um of champagne um luckily I remembered what I am and that that I know what would happen if I had that one glass but I had to leave I think I lasted about half an hour and I just said I'm so sorry I don't feel comfortable I'm going to have to go and then we actually went for some food afterwards and in a scenario with food and them having a glass of wine that didn't actually trigger me so you know I think the point that I got from that and What I recognised is that it depends on every situation. It's different. You know, don't be scared of going out for food if there's alcohol served around you. you know everyone's going to react different in different situations I was put in a position where there was just alcohol flowing it was an event that I would usually drink at so I shouldn't have gone that early and
SPEAKER_00:you said obviously last night you'd gone to a couple of bars obviously not drinking but it shows that the level of I suppose progress that you've made in that sort of last nine months and as well that you can maybe go to these situations and be a bit more comfortable
SPEAKER_01:yeah I mean don't get me wrong you know somebody says you want to come out clubbing I'd probably say no but It's of no interest to me anyway. And what's the point? What's the point in putting yourself through that pain when everybody else is oblivious anyway and no one's going to remember that you're there? Unless it's a friend's birthday or something like that, I turn up to my friend's events. I turn up to events that I get invited to if I need to go. I've learned to say no yeah that's so important absolutely you know I I was kind of like beforehand I would say yes to anything because it was always going to have alcohol there and it was always an excuse oh there's free alcohol so let's go but that that free alcohol was just tipping off whatever else I was drinking um but now it's really strong to say no it feels good
SPEAKER_00:yeah it's the there's a I think we all have it don't we that people pleasing element we always try and you know a lot of the time we'll often put other people's I suppose feelings and what they want to do ahead of our own whereas obviously now you're in a position where you can say no and I think that's something where I'd like to be sometimes you know we all get put in situations that we don't necessarily want to be in but you know people see you and people see your successes and often obviously more recently you've been able to talk about your low times but the one thing I suppose I'm interested to hear what was your rock bottom moment where you thought right I need help when did you recognise it when was the moment where
SPEAKER_01:well my the moment i recognized that i wanted help um was not my rock bottom i would say i'd say i had had worse but that moment in time i had had I had a lot of rock bottoms. I was in and out of hospital. I got sacked from Panto because I was found on the floor of my dressing room. And they found substance and alcohol in my room. And that should have been enough to wake me up to stop. But after 24 hours in the hospital and getting fluids inside of me, I then went straight and bought more vodka. And I couldn't recognize that that was wrong. It was like I just had to drink. I just had to have the alcohol. There was no reason behind it. It's absolute insanity. You know, this is a mental illness. It's a disease of the mind and body. Once I take the first drink, I get addicted and I need more. That should have been my rock bottom, but it wasn't. I'd say there was another five months after that, four or five months after that, before I asked for help, I was able to go into rehab. So it was just that one moment where I saw somebody else had what I want. That was the key. The key was seeing somebody else, clean and sober, who I knew had struggles. That's what I wanted. And that's what changed.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's the importance of peer support and, you know, people like yourself sharing your story, because that's where the inspiration will come from for people. I think I just want to go back to when you said for some people doing the panto, going into hospital, coming out and grabbing vodka. To some people, that sounds absolutely ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's insane. It's absolutely disgusting.
SPEAKER_00:I think the thing with this is when people don't understand addiction, they say, oh, it's just a case of low willpower or a lack of willpower. What would you say to that? Because there is a stigma when people don't understand addiction. Why don't you just stop? And obviously there's the medical reasons why you can't just stop when you're called dependent. Which
SPEAKER_01:I had no idea about, you know. Absolutely, yeah. You know, it's a good question because I also thought that of myself. I'm disgusting. Why can't I stop? I need to say no. I would try to say no. I would try not to drink. I would inevitably be iller. I'd be sicker. I'd feel more rough when I wasn't drinking. than when I was, because that's how I self-medicated my body with alcohol. The only time I felt reasonably okay was when I was drinking. And you just mentioned, because you can't, the amount of drink I was taking in, if I stopped straight away, that could lead to my life being taken away as well. But I didn't know that time. So for me, whenever I felt rough, because I was trying to stop, had to drink to keep myself going and I didn't know what was going on and it is insane and you know when you want to stop and you can't you get scared and I didn't know what I suffered from still I just I just know I knew nothing else other than to just keep doing what I was doing and there were there was a good few times where I was so upset that I was drinking and using and while I'm drinking and using that I was disgusted with myself and I would pray to God, a God, to help me either die or stop. I just didn't want to, I didn't want to wake up sometimes because the pain of waking up and repeating it all over again, I didn't want to. I was using against my will. That's where it took, that's where addiction takes you. When you're using against your will and you actually don't like what you're doing, that's, you know, That's almost too far before you should recognise that you may need help. But that's where it took me.
SPEAKER_00:working i've been working drug services for eight years now and sometimes uh conversations around you know celebrity and celebrity culture comes up and and addiction and i suppose it's kind of like lifestyles of the rich and the famous do you know i guess um so when you talk about celebrity and celebrity culture you know it's oh well if they've got problems they can just check themselves into an expensive rehab and they can get the help they they deserve uh or the help they need um our service users Because rehab and, you know, sending someone to a detox is so expensive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's sort of, I guess, things they need to comply with in terms of they need to attend X amount of one-to-one appointments, X amount of groups to show a willingness and a level of preparation. So we're not just going to send somebody and they're going to come back and be straight. Yeah, because some people do abuse the system and
SPEAKER_01:use it as a detox to then get back on it. And I know people like that.
SPEAKER_00:What would you say to people who look at someone like yourself and think, oh, well, she'll have it easy because she's got friends who can help or she can afford to do this what would your response be to those people?
SPEAKER_01:I mean it just so first of all in my defence I needed medical attention so whether it was rehab or whether I was going to be admitted to hospital it was either or for me I was that ill I was about to die my liver function was off the charts my pancreas still doesn't work I'm still suffering from that today so I would have either been admitted to hospital or rehab and that's where it took me however Rehab got me clean and got me understanding what I suffer from, but it didn't keep me sober. What keeps me sober is the rooms, my AA, my CA meetings, and my 12-step program with my sponsor, my sponsees, you know, my 12 steps. That's what keeps you sober, and that is free, right? Absolutely. So I got clean in rehab. But I stay sober in the rooms. And I know the majority of the people that I now know in classes, really good friends of mine, in recovery, get sober in the rooms. You don't have to need rehab or hospital attention. You know, a lot of people recognise it before it got to the point that I did. You know?
SPEAKER_00:How have you found the 12-step programme? I found in terms of working in services, there's a lot of ambivalence. And, you know, you said yourself, you know, at one point you was praying to a God.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That can often put people off, that sort of handing yourself over to a higher power, admitting you're powerless. How was that transition for you into a 12-step program? Do you have any religious beliefs? No,
SPEAKER_01:not particularly. I don't.
SPEAKER_00:Was that a barrier for you
SPEAKER_01:at all? It was a bit of a... It's really difficult because I understand when I saw the word God... I forgot that I prayed to God to kill me or help me, right? I forgot that then. So I was praying before I knew what I was going to pray to. Does that make sense? But as soon as I saw the word God, I did switch off. I'm not going to lie. But what I found was that when I stopped questioning what God is, then I found my higher power. What that is, I have no idea. I don't go to church. I'm a Christian, but... I'm actually fundamentally believing the Big Bang Theory and all of that. And I believe the Bible was written to teach us things in life. And I believe the 12-step program is a mirror to the Bible. It's about teaching us how to live life the way that we should be able to, free from our addictions, free from redemption. It kind of actually is a parallel.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So when you get over the whole God word, and some people are religious and bring their God and their faith into it, my higher power, I don't know who or what it is, but I pray to a higher power every morning and I pray for a clean and sober day because I used to pray to that same higher power before to help me get vodka when it was closed, the shops, or please let nobody find me like this. That was constant. So what I've done is shifted the way that I do my prayer and shift it to help me stay and remain sober. And then the higher power in that is that I could not get sober or clean for anybody. Not for myself and not for my kids and not for my husband or my friends. The fact that I was losing jobs all around me. You know, it sounds selfish. It absolutely is. But when you cannot stop for whatever reason... All of those things. It's not that it doesn't matter. It's that you can't get sober for those things. So if I can't get sober for my kids, who are the world to me, there has to be something else keeping me from making the wrong decisions. And that thing is a higher power. Yeah. So I just do what the suggestions are. The suggestions are there. I followed the suggestions from my sponsor and I did the 12 steps. The 12 steps is actually something that anybody can apply to their lives. Like my husband's really intrigued about it and he wants to apply it to their lives. It's actually, it's not a religious program. It's a spiritual program. And I think we could all do with a bit of spirituality in our lives, whether it's meditation, coming to one with nature. You know, a lot of that is a big part of it. It's about clearing your mind. And making, you know, put one foot in front of each other and making the best decisions possible. I wasn't able to make my own decisions in addiction. You know, the choices were taken away from me. I had no choice. I had no option. Whereas now, with my higher power and my steps and my sponsor, you know, there's triangle, recovery, service. And without every little bit of it, sorry, with every little bit of it, I'm able to... to recognise that it is a choice. So I have a choice whether I drink or not.
SPEAKER_00:No, I think you've done a really good job of explaining that because it is a massive barrier for people to get to the first session and then they hear God and then it's like, oh, do you know, I don't want to deal with that. But I mean, I have a higher power explained to me in so many ways. And someone said to me, imagine your car breaks down on the side of the road and you need to push it to safety, but you're by yourself and you can't do it. Someone comes over and they help you push it into the labor. I said that in that situation is a higher power. Someone helping you gets from A to B and where you want to be. And I suppose recovery capital is a big part of it as well. talk about um reasons to stay sober as well you've talked about your husband you've talked about your children as well you know they're the they're the reasons why you i suppose you know you i know you said you couldn't do it for them but it's important to stay sober for them as well isn't
SPEAKER_01:it oh yeah absolutely and um you know my husband's been a massive part of of my recovery obviously but also he's spoken out and how he felt through it and you You don't recognize what other people are going through when you're in addiction. You know, I spent the whole time blaming them. I spent the whole time being irritated by them. And it's not until you get sober that you can recognize like in the steps. Step nine, for example, is where you make your amends to people. And there's no way I would have said sorry in the madness. There would be no way. But what they go through now that I'm sober, I don't want to ever put them through that again.
SPEAKER_00:How was the... I think the lockdown was a big part of your story as well, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00:Talk us through a little bit about that then. Because I think a lot of people, I mean myself included, you know, not having to go to work the next day, I found I was drinking more throughout the lockdown just because what else was there to do at home? Yeah. What was that like for you? Well, pre the
SPEAKER_01:lockdown, yeah. Especially having
SPEAKER_00:an addiction.
SPEAKER_01:Pre the lockdown, I... I was told that I needed to cut down on what I was drinking because of my liver function. So I already had problems. So I was already an addict. I was already an alcoholic. And so lockdown just made it worse for me. Whereas I think that there will be a lot of people coming out of lockdown and in the next few years realising that that they are where I was at the beginning of lockdown because it did create this totally alien environment where we were at home. And so, you know, having alcohol was a release and everybody was drinking more because what, you know, and I get it, everybody was drinking more. So I was drinking more on top of what I was already consuming, you know, unwittingly. I didn't set out to do that. It just happened. So it did get worse. And it got to points where night was day, day was night. I was obviously homeschooling, so I didn't have to drive anywhere. And we were renting a house at the time. And I could walk to the shop. And it was just easier to be more into my addiction through lockdown. And for most people... A lot of my friends actually have come out of it and they haven't been able to cut down what they consumed in lockdown. And I think we're going to see more problems, more people needing help in the next year or two when people recognise what they consumed and how they've carried it on. I think it'll be a lot of that.
SPEAKER_00:I've got a quote here and it says, I'd wait until my husband went to bed to start binging on vodka in the middle of the night. Yeah. Yeah. Was he aware of your alcohol problems?
SPEAKER_01:He was. Not to the extent, not at all. But my husband tried to intervene about two years previous to get help. They staged an intervention, him and all my friends. And they wanted me to go to a rehab or a detox centre. And they had set it all up. And I just talked my way out of it. Promised I was going to get better. promised I could and I really wanted to do it for them but I have to be honest I didn't want to get better then I liked what this mad alternate universe was for me because I was drinking away what I wanted to suppress But I convinced them that I would get better. And I did try. I just found I couldn't, so I hid it more.
SPEAKER_00:Do you know what I'm interested in? You said that because of another quote I've got here. It said, you enjoyed being an addict, you enjoyed the chaos, and you enjoyed the manipulation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Can you explain that to me? It sounds sick, doesn't it? No, but it sounds mental, doesn't it? It
SPEAKER_01:really is because, do you know what? It's like, I'm a good person. I'd like to think I'm nice. I am kind and I'm loving and I love to make people feel good about themselves. And addiction didn't like stopped all that. It stopped me being who I am, but I couldn't see it. So it was just a new version of me. And the only way that, and then I suppose the easiest way of, it's like an example. So because I was this person, and people didn't want to hang around with me and I didn't know why, obviously it was because I was a car crash, I would manipulate situations so that I could get friends to hang out with me and those friends were on my level. So I'd manipulate my friend groups and I would shift my friends. Actually, a memory here that I didn't have an alcohol or drug problem in celebrity era. My issues came later on in life, and it wasn't because I was around parties. It was actually in a very normal village where I live, and it was other people that I was hanging around with that enabled me to do more. So, yes, celebrity lifestyle and everything that I attend, there's vast amounts of alcohol, and it really is difficult. But actually, I can't blame that. from my addictions it was it was a normal situation if that makes any sense
SPEAKER_00:so you're just saying then you the addiction started after celebrity lifestyle um i have i have brief experience in the entertainment industry but i understand that when i have performed it it creates such a high what was that like for you when you i guess when you sort of left that circle and because if what i'm trying to get i suppose is Was you trying to fill the emptiness that was maybe from the lack of high that you was receiving? Because as a performer, I can't imagine what it was like last night, 7,000 people on stage. That's going to be amazing. So what's the comedown like, really? And I guess, did you ever think about alcohol being a replacement to that comedown?
SPEAKER_01:I'm going to say no. Okay. Because alcohol has always been part of my life. Yeah. I didn't drink... in a addictive way until I want to say about 34, 35. But it was always an issue. I was always a functioning alcoholic. And I hate that word because I used that the whole time in my addictions. I'm a functioning alcoholic. But then my body stopped functioning, you know. So there's no such... It's a really silly word, really. But I was drinking... slightly alcoholically, but I wasn't in addiction where I had no choice in the band. But drink was always there. I would have a drink before stage. I'd be having a few drinks afterwards. I was young, and I was single at the time at the beginning of the band, and it was just so much fun. I'm not going to lie. I had the best time. Drinking culture back then was just fun, and it wasn't dangerous. I think that a lot of addictions come out later on in life, and it's definitely been a you know, a slow progress from the beginning. But with the natural highs and comes downs off stage, it's so interesting doing it sober. I remember the first gig that, the first couple of gigs that we did, And it was quite shortly after the Priory, actually. Maybe a little bit too soon, but I have to work. I need to earn money. I mean, the last two years in COVID, I haven't earned anything. And then previous to that, I wasn't getting booked for anything. So I really needed to bring in some money into the house, you know, because we can't just last on a one wage where we live and it's just the kids. So to come down from that, the next day, I felt like I had a hangover. That's how I felt of a natural come down because I've never had that natural come down. And I felt like I had been drinking the night before. I had to question myself, you know, just newly in recovery. And I said to the girls, I know I didn't drink. And they were looking after me. There was no alcohol on the rider and they would come and see me in my room to make sure I was all right. And that was lovely. And Kelly said, welcome to the club because Kelly doesn't really drink much. And she's like, that's normal. That's normal. And then once I got over that feeling, I actually, the buzz of being on stage is a natural high. And now I love it, you know. It's so different. Before when I was drinking on stage, the girls were worried about me. You know, they were sometimes embarrassed. I thought they hated me and, you know, but actually they were worried and embarrassed when I would say things and I would just act stupid on stage thinking everybody likes me if I'm making a fool of myself. And, you know, I don't want to be reminded of that, you know. I
SPEAKER_00:get that. Do you know what's interesting? You mentioned around the age of 34, 35 because that brings us to your book here, Hot Flush, and that's when you went into... I suppose early menopause?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know much about menopause. Yes, that's right, yes. So I'm quite interested to talk about that. How did going into early menopause affect alcoholism then?
SPEAKER_01:Because
SPEAKER_00:I believe they're both very much related.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I do, I do. Looking back and having worked through things with my sponsor and talking to my husband, he recognises a shift. in my drinking habits when this book was released. I went into immediate menopause when I had a total hysterectomy. And that was when AJ, my youngest, was six months old. Straight after having him, I went into postnatal depression because I couldn't give him breast milk because I had had my double mastectomy. a year and a half previous to that. He then had meningitis. So the six months before my operation was very traumatic. And then I had the operation and my coping mechanism was alcohol. And, you know, I already had issues with alcohol previous to that. I can't blame that for making me an addict, but I definitely turned to alcohol for release and it was okay to do so. You know, nobody would forgive me. You know, I was forgiven for turning to alcohol because it was such a traumatic. It's understandable, yeah. It's understandable. And I discovered that I just hated the fact that I had no, I had nothing to relate to my friends.
SPEAKER_02:I
SPEAKER_01:was not relatable to them at all because I was going through menopause and I was, you know, up and down with my mood swings, my hot flushes until I got my HRT settled. And so when I'm out with my girlfriends or with Jess or Carol, I suddenly just feel so old and crepid and not worthy, not sexy, not... you know, not attractive, irritable. I was itchy all the time. My hair was falling out. You know, the list was endless, really, of the things that I was suffering from. And so the only time I felt okay was when I drank. Because all of those things went away and it gave me the confidence to become the person I thought I wanted to be. I
SPEAKER_00:imagine it being isolating. Like you say, your friends are, you know, to go through like 34, 35, it's early. So... Your friends aren't going to relate, are they, at all? I guess it is going to be such an isolating experience.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and my own demise was that I never got help. You know, I never talked through the issues. And, you know, the NHS, when that kind of thing happens, they do offer help. And I didn't take it. Because I know I'm a fighter. I'm really strong-willed. And I get over things. But I should have recognized, you know, this isn't normal, what I went through. And I really should have accepted that help. I'm not saying that would have stopped me from being an addict. I think I had issues before that. But, you know, if you're going through anything, anything traumatic, life-changing, this was a life-changing operation to myself, my family, my husband. You know, it's okay not to be okay. And I thought not being okay, I didn't want nobody to know I wasn't okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think as well, especially now you're in circles such as the Fellowship of AA, you'll understand the importance of peer support as well, which I think for a lot of people they don't. I think sometimes it feels like a sign of weakness that we have to get support from friends. I think we like to try and tackle things ourselves. You just talked about being a fighter. I imagine there is an element of feeling, I guess originally in that point, feeling weak that you do have to ask for help from people or do want support from people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I totally recognise that. I definitely... was not the person to ask for help, no matter what was happening. I mean, it took me at least a year and a half to ask for help for my addictions when actually I should have asked for it then. Actually, when the first intervention was offered to me, that's when I should have accepted it. But I wasn't ready. It's really important, you know, I suppose for the people, the loved ones around the addict, to recognise, and not everybody does, that they can't get sober for you. They have to be ready, otherwise it's all gonna go tits up. If I went to rehab back then, I have no doubt in my mind that I would have relapsed because I didn't want help then. The person has to be ready, willing, asking, and accepting help. They have to be willing, because it's not easy. Recovery's difficult, especially at the beginning. So that person has to be willing and able to recognise that they need help. And unfortunately, the loved ones around them, as much pressure as you put on them to get help, it's not going to happen unless they're ready. You've just got to be there.
SPEAKER_00:It's the downfall for a lot of people is, I'm doing this for my daughter, I'm doing this for my son, I'm here because my wife wants me to get help. And you said yourself, there's all these factors. But realistically, it has to, like you've just said then, it has to be when you're ready personally. Because if you're not, it's never going to work, is it? And I think that's the frustrating thing that we see sometimes in services, are people trying to change or wanting to change, but for the wrong reasons, not because they want to change, but all these external sort of pressures.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. I mean, the thing is, is that obviously I wanted to be healthy and able to be a good mummy. That's a conflicting thing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So of course I wanted to do it for them, but the snap moment was I was done. Yeah. I was exhausted. I was so exhausted of the lies, of just, of the lies and the manipulation. And my body was just dying. I was dying. And my skin was translucent. I was so itchy because of my liver function that I had blisters all over my body. And I was just done. Like, I couldn't breathe done. And, um,
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Are you okay?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Do
SPEAKER_00:you want to take a break? Good, I'm fine. Are you
SPEAKER_01:okay?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, I'm all right. Okay. So talking about the menopause, how can, I suppose, can you elaborate how men can help with that situation? Is there anything that we can do to, I suppose, if my wife was going through it, I wouldn't have a clue what to do. What sort of advice could you give men about how to help their partners, help people in their life who are going through?
SPEAKER_01:That's a really good question. It's endless, really, the answer there. It's very difficult when a woman goes through menopause because if you think about it, your body stops producing hormones that your body needs to function. So it's literally like taking away everything that you feel, your emotions, your hormone levels, your sleep patterns, irritability, mind focus, everything, and jumbling them all up and going, there you go, figure life out now. And it's really hard for the loved ones to see that because they sometimes feel it's their fault. And it's not. They feel pushed away. I push my husband away a lot. And he thought I was having an affair. I wasn't. I just didn't want him near me. And I couldn't articulate that without hurting his feelings. It was just that moment. And obviously we've moved on from that. And I'm on the right levels of EHRT now. Just be there. And know that the person you married is there. Somewhere. And if... she's willing to get help, whether it's HRT, go see the doctors, ask the questions. We pay taxes, right? We've got a wonderful NHS service. If you don't go and ask, you're not going to get help.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:You have to go. You have to knock down the door. You have to get yourself the appointment and get your levels checked. So encourage the woman to go and get themselves checked with their levels and ask for help in that way. But just know that she's there. And if she doesn't know where she is in her mind, you know, it's really hard for the woman. It really is. But it's really, really hard for the loved ones too.
SPEAKER_00:I always say women really did. draw the short straw. From the beginning to end, at least for me. But
SPEAKER_01:then, you know, the way I see it as well is that the men suffer with them too. You know, my husband suffered all through my addictions and he had to navigate through all of that and become, you know, the mother and the father for kids. And so, you know, when you love somebody, you take on their pressure and their downfalls and pitfalls and you feel it with them. So I think You know, it goes hand in hand, a partnership. He feels what I feel.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. No, I'm glad you've elaborated on that. And thank you for sharing. I know that wasn't easy, so I do appreciate that. Thank you. Why was it so important to use your profile and influence to address the stigma of what it means to be an addict?
SPEAKER_01:Well, if I'm being really, really honest, the thought of anybody knowing actually kept me from asking for help. Yeah. I was just devastated at the thought of people thinking that I was one of these people addicts. absolutely disgusted with myself that people would think that it would get out. All my family, all my friends, the public, I'd never work again. Oh my God, I'm never ever going to be able to work or be on stage or sing again. My life would be over if anybody found out. And that stopped me from asking for help for a long time. And when I went into rehab, the choice was taken away by somebody selling a story on me about... my addictions before I even get a chance to commute what I am myself and so we had been faced with a decision to not talk or to talk and I've always been a believer pre that moment especially with my book and things like that that I always want it in my words so if anybody's going to be open and honest. It's going to be me. I'm not going to let any idiot take that away from me. And that was made, unfortunately, it had to be made really, really quickly. So instead of somebody else telling my story, which would be probably fabricated and glorified for them, I took responsibility myself and I spoke about it in a one-off interview. And at that point, I was still navigating, you know, what I am, how I'm going to face recovery. But once it was done, Nobody could then do anything about what I've already said. I've said it. I've admitted. I was really honest and open. And I was so fearful that that was it. That was it. I was never going to work again. And everyone was going to hate me. And like no mums from school would let me have kids play dates. But very, very quickly, it was the absolute opposite. I was asked to help people. I was asked for advice. I had advice. mothers from school who I thought were prim and proper admitting to me they're in recovery for eight, nine, ten years, coming to a meeting, people offering help. And it opened up this gateway to all these possibilities I thought would never exist. I thought the complete opposite was going to happen. And actually, by coming out myself, and it's a very personal issue, very personal decision to be open with your addictions. I totally understand why people don't tell everybody. Well, first of all, my option was taken away. And second of all, I'm so happy I did. The response was amazing. and me being able to be open and talk especially on platforms like this will help people and this helps me you know I don't you know sometimes I don't work a perfect program and sometimes I get disconnected from recovery because I'm busy and life just shows up so this is good for me selfishly I don't really
SPEAKER_00:care
SPEAKER_01:I need to talk about things that have happened so that I remember what I suffer from so I do not go back there but having this platform to be open has been an absolute blessing I've been so blessed to be able to talk to people like yourself and other people in recovery meet so many amazing people meet families of you know of the sufferers meet families who have addicts living with them still and don't know what to do and if I can help a little bit that's incredible that I've got this platform it's amazing
SPEAKER_00:it is it's a nice it's a bit of a superpower isn't it really to help change people's lives
SPEAKER_01:I'm really fortunate and I'm really I'm really, really, really grateful that people have, you know, given trust back to me as well. It hasn't happened overnight. But, you know, now I'm doing Dancing on Ice. Well, I
SPEAKER_00:was just about to ask about that, actually. So we'll be seeing you on our TV screens in January, is it? Yes. Okay. How did that come
SPEAKER_01:about? It's been a bit of a dream of mine for many, many years. And I remember auditioning for this about three, four years ago. And I was in a right mess. I was very, very heavily into my addictions. It was a really bad time. And I turned up a bit messy. Thoughts, how dare they not take me for the show? You know, why not me? And it was clearly because I wasn't going to be of any use. If I had gotten it that time, I would have made an absolute disaster for myself and messed up my life even more. And so that time wasn't right. And I went for it. My manager asked them for last year and We decided it was too early in my recovery to be on something so open. And then this year, I got a call to ask if I was still interested. And so I went along to the audition. And yeah, I got it. It's mental to think that where I was... And the reason I didn't ask for help is because I was so scared of not getting work. But in the fellowship, in the 12-step program and in the rooms, we have this thing called the promises and it's a reading. And the promises, they don't all come true. It's not like you get a magic pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. but you will see your friends and your family coming back into your life and opportunities come that you never thought would ever be possible and this is just a prime example like I'm not saying that everybody in recovery is going to get a TV show but it's an example to what my life is now to where it was I was never going to be given an opportunity to do this back then no chance and with recovery and with me being safe to be around and being equipped to be able to do a show and not get triggered that's taken taking time but but it's there and i'm
SPEAKER_00:i'm buzzing it's been it's like a reward for the hard work that you've put in in some respects isn't it like because obviously this takes so much work to do this
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:do you know it is it's deserved doesn't it you know to be able to i think it just goes back to you help it calmer I'm not necessarily a big believer in camp, but the help you've given others has kind of been paid back, I guess, in tenfold for you and for your career and where you're going to be going from here.
SPEAKER_01:I do think that anybody in recovery who works it and does it the best of their ability, you know, the things that you can be rewarded with are endless. And I'm not talking about money. I'm talking about, like, you know, getting that job that you go for, this example, and making amends with your family that you haven't spoke to for years because you were always that drunk idiot at a party or you stopped. from your mum or whatever it might be, you know, with recovery, those relationships come back and, you know, all of this is a blessing that would never be able to happen before. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Now, how's the, so how's the training going for this then for Dance Nice? Because I understand we spoke to your agent the other day that said you was on the ice at that time as well. How's that going?
SPEAKER_01:It's slow. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. Do you have any experience? No, that's the thing. No, I actually don't and that's categorically the honest truth. The only ice skating I've ever done is in the audition and at Christmas with the kids on an ice rink while they've got penguins. I mean, that's it. So I'm a complete, absolute novice. I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm really enjoying it. I'm getting the hang of it. It's slow, but I love it. Something about it, I love having... something to reach for and I like challenges and I like competitions and I like being part of a team so getting to know everybody is just amazing
SPEAKER_00:so I didn't realise how long it had been on TV dancing nights it's been years hasn't it yeah your band mate Jess had been on back in 2009 that's right and she finished third place
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:she did very well has she given you any hints and tips for this at all
SPEAKER_01:she just said to me well obviously we talk about it all the time and the parts and stuff but the main thing she said is enjoy it she said that enjoy the process She enjoyed it when she let herself go and just from the get go, just enjoy it. And that's what I'm doing. I'm having fun as well. And if I'm any good, that's a bonus. I don't want to do the process, be so hard on myself and not enjoy it at all. Whereas I want to enjoy it and be self-critical, but in a healthy way.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And to be fair, lastly, I suppose after everything we spoke about, what would your advice be to others that maybe have found themselves in similar situations to yourself in the past?
SPEAKER_01:Asking for help is not weakness, it's strength. I didn't know that before. It takes a lot of strength to ask for help. If you recognise that you cannot stop drinking or you're drinking or using drugs, you know, against your will. You don't want to do it and you're still doing it. That's past the time when you need to look at yourself and ask for help. And there's so much help out there, the helplines that are available and what you guys are doing. There is help out there if you seek it. If you want help, it's there.
SPEAKER_00:No, thank you. And I finish all my podcasts with this random 10 fire questions.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Get ready for these. Completely relevant to everything that we've spoken about so far. My first question is, what is your favourite word?
SPEAKER_02:It's hard, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, my God. I should have just said it. What's your favourite word? Oh, God. Oh, no. I'm mind blank. Yeah. I
SPEAKER_00:can come back to that one if you want. You can, you can. Of course you can, absolutely. Shall I take shit as your favourite word? Go on then, do that. Favourite word is shit, we'll go with that. What's your least favourite word?
SPEAKER_01:Oh God, I can't.
SPEAKER_00:I can't, I like
SPEAKER_01:that. That's two words. Well, no, no, can't, cannot,
SPEAKER_00:I understand. Tell me something that excites you.
SPEAKER_01:Picking the kids up from school. That's nice. Short-lived. Five minutes later, hating picking the kids up from school. But I actually really enjoy getting the kids. I get excited about seeing them. And then five minutes, I want to drop them
SPEAKER_00:back off. Just drop them back off from school, yeah. Tell me something that doesn't excite you. The five minutes after picking them up from school. Is it the five minutes after you pick the kids up from school? What sound or noise do you love?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, um... I actually like listening to waves. I sleep to waves. I have, I can't pronounce, what's the word? Tinnitus? Tinnitus,
SPEAKER_00:yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, where my ear's affected and all I can hear is a... Oh, really? So I listen to waves and I really like it. What brought that on?
SPEAKER_00:In ears. I was just thinking, obviously you've been so close to massive speakers for so long.
SPEAKER_01:Having an ears in my ear and the music blasting.
SPEAKER_00:Fair. What sound or noise do you hear? The tinnitus. These are answering themselves, aren't they? So again, you can't swear. What's your favourite curse word?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I actually say fuck a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah. Oh, fuck. Fuckity fuck. Fuckity fuck. I like that one. What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I'd like to attempt being a counsellor, especially for kids. Yeah. And trying to get to the... I do believe that... It's early on in life where you create the unhealthy behaviours towards addictions, definitely. To
SPEAKER_00:be fair, that was something I did have as my questions. Your agent had said you were quite keen to work with children. Yeah, I am. There's a
SPEAKER_01:lot of tape that you've got to go over to work with children. But it's definitely something that I'd like to look into. In the future,
SPEAKER_00:definitely. That's good to hear. What profession would you not like to do? So it's not disrespect. Office work. Sorry, guys. No, it's fine. I understand that. I mean, my husband doesn't work in an
SPEAKER_01:office two days out of the week and the rest of it is on the road. But yeah,
SPEAKER_00:I should
SPEAKER_01:try that.
SPEAKER_00:I'd hate office work if we wasn't doing what we was doing. I think what makes it... Yeah. is that when I sit next to my producer, Robbie, we have a laugh all day and we get to do stuff like this. Yeah. Planning stuff like this is wonderful.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, more in particular, it's filing. Yeah. Because I did filing as a work placement and I didn't know what I was doing. So I ended up just filing
SPEAKER_00:it. To be fair, in this modern digital era, you'd be keen to know there's not a lot of filing going on in offices anymore. So that bit's gone. And then lastly, we've spoke about religion a little bit, but if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?
SPEAKER_01:You had great fun, didn't you?
SPEAKER_00:Michelle, thank you very much for your time. You've been absolutely wonderful.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you very much. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:And if you enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, don't forget to check out our other episodes and hit that subscribe button. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Our name is CGL Holt. That's C-G-L-H-U-L-L. We're on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon, and Google Music. So please like and subscribe to receive regular updates. You can also search for Believe in People podcast on your favorite listening device. And if you could leave us a review, that will really help us with getting our message out there and rising up the daily podcast charts.
