Believe in People EXTRA: Recovery vs Recovered - Why Identity Still Matters

This episode of Believe in People Extra explores one of the most debated ideas in addiction: being recovered rather than simply in recovery.

Young Lee unpacks the difference between cured and recovered, explaining the “twist of the mind” that precedes relapse and why the real powerlessness isn’t the first drink - it’s the thought that comes before it. Using a simple Terminator analogy, he describes how addiction doesn’t say “I might be back” - it says “I’ll be back.”

Young also reflects on becoming unrecovered, the small daily shifts that lead someone back toward relapse, and why emotional sobriety - not just abstinence - is the foundation of lasting freedom.

This episode is for anyone questioning their recovery, currently struggling, or working to understand the psychology behind addiction beyond the substance itself.

Listen to the full conversation with Young Lee here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/73A5jN7eetBSMQ45FfJow3

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Believe in People is a platform for lived experience, recovery insight and honest conversation. Whether you’re in recovery, supporting someone who is, or working on the frontline, this podcast exists to inform, challenge stigma and inspire change.

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Transcript

Welcome And Series Context

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is a renewed original recording. Hello and welcome to Believe in People Extra, the companion miniseries to our award-winning podcast about all things addiction, recovery, and stigma. I'm Robbie Lawson, the show's producer, and each week I'll bring you highlights, exclusive recordings, extended cuts, and powerful moments from our archive. This series brings together the most impactful conversations and recovery-focused insights, condensed into short episodes to support and inspire those on their journey. Today we're exploring the difference between being recovered and being in recovery. Young Lee breaks down the twist of the mind that drives relapse and why emotional sobriety, not just abstinence, is what keeps him free.

Not Cured: Allergy And Powerlessness

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Since your first episode aired, we had nearly a quarter of a million engagements across all platforms on your preview clip. And by far one of the most talked about topics has been this idea of being recovered rather than being in recovery. Some people found it inspiring, while others challenged the idea, saying addiction is a lifelong battle. One thing you said that really resonated was I love being in this state of recovered. So I don't take my foot off the spiritual gas and it doesn't mean cured. Can you expand on what being recovered means to you and how do you balance that mindset while maintaining the work needed to stay in a good place?

The Terminator Metaphor For Relapse

Becoming Unrecovered Over Time

SPEAKER_02 1:15

And it's a very good question, and it and it's one that comes up a lot. I think where the confusion lies with people is that they're mistaking that word for cured. I'm never gonna be cured. And what that means is I'm I I've always got the allergy. What we mean by an allergy, if I put that in to mean it's vodka now, I couldn't just have one and be satisfied. Something would go off in me and I would want more and more, and then by the end of the night I'd be smoking crack cocaine. So I'm not cured of that. What we're recovered from is this mental twist of the mind that used to always because that's real when we talk in in 12-step circles about powerlessness. Often if I speak to people and I say, What do you understand by that? They will always say, Well, once I put one in, I can't stop. Yeah. But that's not the real power. That is a powerlessness. But if that was your problem, what would be the solution? Just stop. Yeah. Well, why can't you? Because I've got a mind that that would put this thought into my head and convince me I can just have one today. That's the real powerlessness. I've got, you know, a drug addict and alcoholic take drugs and alcohol out of them. They're like a ticking time bomb. They've got no idea when that's kind of come into their head. Yeah. I often talk about this powerlessness and I relate it to the terminator. You know, the film from the 80s, great film, isn't it? Now, the terminator didn't care if you're having a good day, a bad day, what your emotions were. Didn't care you'd had enough. Please leave me alone. His catchphrase wasn't, I might be back. Oh, you've had a detox now, I won't be back. Oh, you've had six months in rehab. I want it was I'll be back. Now any drug addict or alcoholic will know that's true without a without a recovery programme. Right. I take drugs and alcohol out of me, and drugs and alcohol have never said go and have a lovely life. I'm gonna leave you alone now. You've learned enough about relapse prevention, you've learned enough about triggers and all these kind of nonsense things. It always the th the thought always comes back, I'll be back. Just standing up my door. It's very different from being cured, recovered. Now, a drug addict and alcoholic relapses because they're a drug addict and alcoholic. Without a program, I I I relapse. My mind twists, you know, I'll be back, sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've recovered from that twist of the mind. That's what we we say. Yeah. Now, when people say, Oh, you'll get I'll always be recovering. If you got shot in the arm, would you always be recovering from your gunshot wound?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

No, it'd heal, wouldn't it? It would heal.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah, yeah. That would be a horrible place to always be recovering, having to watch out where I go. I wouldn't like to live like that myself, and I know you don't have to if you if you want this. You don't have to. Because when people say once an addict, always an addict, or once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic, I miss I I misunderstood what they meant. I thought it meant I'm always going to be struggling, I'm always after I'm always gonna have to be on guard, I'm after you know, and and and any any method that that that tries to shield the drug addict or alcoholic away from the substance is doomed to failure because we live in a world when it's here, right? Yeah, and and and and so I work with enough drug addicts and alcoholics every day, either in my place of work or outside of work, to see those guys because you can be recovered and then you become you can become unrecovered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen that happen to people, a lot of people. They they in recovery doing the things they need to do, but then after a few years, the job gets more important. Yeah, the kids more important, the new girlfriend, all those things that never kept them clean and sober before suddenly become the most important thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

So I'm under no illusions that you know that if you don't practice that daily routine, you yourself could become unrecovered as well.

Emotional Sobriety Over External Fixes

Hard User Vs Addict: The Mental Twist

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Definitely, and and I tell you how we become unrecovered. I had a chat with someone in early recovery on the way up here, and they were saying, Why do I still feel like this? And I said, You've been using for so long, you've only been clean a few months. And what I said to to this person was me without things I do each day, my natural outlook on life can be quite negative and be can be quite anxious and and can become a little bit irritable. So, how we become unrecovered, suddenly I don't see those fears that come into my head. Suddenly, when that little old lady cuts me up, I beep at her. It's the little pebbles in my shoe. Maybe the relapse is gonna happen in four months' time because I'm gonna continue You're starting to move towards it, absolutely, yeah, yeah. But when we take drugs and alcohol out of us as drug addicts and alcoholics, it's no different than I've cut off the top of a weed. I haven't got to the root of the problem. So the weeds, the illness is still growing. Yeah, the illness is still growing, but I I don't know because I've got a new pair of Airmax and got a new girlfriend, and you know, I think I'm doing really good. Yeah. So yeah, the the words we that I use, that the the emotional sobriety, we call it emotional sobriety. It's where we live in recovery in a way that I don't rely on external things for my contentness. You know, I don't rely on people to to behave in a certain way for me to be okay, or I I could get a phone call now off of my partner saying I'm cheating on you and I'm not gonna fall to bits. It's not gonna stop me from being sad and upset and feel betrayed, but it's not gonna affect my internal so emotional challenges, I think, or you said a similar word. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I I guess what we're looking at really is because you just seem like the most chilled-out bloke. I'm quite chilled. Yeah, it's almost like it's almost like nothing versus you, especially and and I know this has obviously been a process to get you to this point, so like I'm kind of looking at how you manage that stress or anxiety, all those difficult situations without going back to them old routines that you used to go to.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

And I've got to say that I used to be a really angry man.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah.

Living Present And Daily Practice

Share, Subscribe, Review, And Resources

SPEAKER_02 7:43

I I saw a meme the other day and it said something like, You don't know how much pain I've been through to get to this calmness. And I thought, I really relate to that. Yeah. You can have a hard drug user and a drug addict. They both look the same on paper, they're both using the same amount of drugs, let's say, a lot of drugs. And say the doctor said to them, if you continue using something's gonna happen really bad to your body, whatever. So I know what, I'm gonna throw you in a detox unit. They come out of the detox unit, the hard drug user on that information from the doctor will be able to stay stopped, but the drug addict won't. Because the drug addict's got this mind that will eventually always twist, and in that moment where it'll say, Oh, I can just have one, it'll be different this time, they're unable to bring that information from the doctor, that yeah, but if you do that, you'll die. Unable to. The mind can't save them at certain times, whereas the hard drug user, the the brain isn't like that. They're able because I I I used with with guys over the years in my 20s and 30s that that went at it hard. But when they kind of fell in love, had kids, they they they grew out of it. Yeah, as the drug addict grows into it, regardless of the consequences that are happening in their life, they just cannot stop and cannot stay stopped. Yeah, just because we get clean and sober, life doesn't say, okay, oh, you've had a hard time now. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna ease off you now. Nah, life is life. I used to always say, So I'm fair. What who's that football player? Balotelli. Why it was me? Why it was me, yeah. And someone said to me, Why should why do you think life should be fair? Life is just life, young. And so the wind is gonna blow. Think about this. We're very present right here, right now. We're looking at each other, we're speaking to each other, everything's perfect. There's no worry, there's no anxiety, there's no judgment, there's no stress, there's nothing we need to be or become in this moment. So imagine practicing a life where I can live more in the moment than I do in the in the future or in the past.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

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