Cara Cox: The Detox Factor, Heroin Addiction, Ketamine, Suicide and Recovery After Repeated Relapses

She had the “perfect” life on paper and still didn’t want to wake up. 

In this episode of Believe in People: Addiction, Recovery & Stigma, Cara Cox joins us to discuss trauma, addiction, repeated relapse, and long-term recovery. We explore how childhood loss, family alcoholism, emotional instability, and internal loneliness shaped her relationship with substances from an early age.

Cara speaks openly about drinking to blackout as a teenager, using cannabis and ketamine, and later progressing into heroin and crack use. She reflects on the devastating impact of her mum’s alcoholism and suicide, the instability of moving between schools as a child, and how substances became both escapism and a way to feel confident, connected, and temporarily at peace.

This episode also examines the realities of ketamine addiction, including physical harm, rehab admissions, near-death experiences, psychiatric units, and the mental health crash that often comes when substances are removed. Cara shares what changed after years of relapse, how connection and fellowship helped her recover, and why creative recovery, peer support, and lived experience now shape her work through Chase Recovery and The Detox Factor.

This episode offers practical insight for people in recovery, family members, frontline practitioners, and anyone interested in real stories of change.

Search terms: addiction recovery podcast UK, ketamine addiction recovery, trauma and addiction, lived experience stories, relapse and recovery, peer support, substance misuse, Believe in People podcast.

🎧  If this episode connected with you, please subscribe and review. It directly helps us reach more people affected by addiction, trauma and stigma. 

🔗 Then share this episode with someone who needs to hear it!

Browse the full archive at 👉 www.believeinpeoplepodcast.com 

Believe in People is a platform for lived experience, recovery insight and honest conversation. Whether you’re in recovery, supporting someone who is, or working on the frontline, this podcast exists to inform, challenge stigma and inspire change.

If you or someone you know needs support with drugs, alcohol, housing, domestic abuse, or mental and physical wellbeing, free and confidential help is available via Change Grow Live:

📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” - Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

Listen & Subscribe:
Spotify | Apple Podcasts

🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew 

Transcript

Welcome And Cara’s Story

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is a renewed original recording. Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award nominated and British Podcast Award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery, and stigma. My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator. Today we're speaking to Cara Cox about addiction, trauma, recovery, and the long road back from repeated relapse. Cara shares how childhood loss, her mum's alcoholism, and years of internal loneliness shaped her relationship with substances. From alcohol and cannabis to ketamine, pepperone and crack. She talks candidly about rehab, near-death experiences, creative recovery, and how connection ultimately helps save her life.

Childhood Moves And Mum’s Drinking

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I had a really, really glorious childhood. My dad was a sergeant major in the army, so I was actually born in Germany. My first school was a Dutch-speaking school in Holland. I can't speak Dutch, so I think by the time I finished my education, I'd been to about 14 schools. But in early, early childhood, it was amazing. We lived in Hong Kong, we saw a lot of the world, and it was just it was just, yeah, everything about it was amazing. But unfortunately, my mum started to get really unwell. And I think I was probably around about 10 or 11 years old, and my mum soon started to drink to cope with what was going on with her, and it was in the 90s, and I just remember feeling so hopeless in eight that I couldn't help her. And the the problem is, as a child, even with an alcoholic, as much as the family wanted to see my mum get well, and as much as we wanted to do everything to support her and and and to see what we could do to get her better, she drank to an extent that was in in lots of blackouts. And I can remember being at school and just being completely consumed with how my mum was when I got home. And I suppose that's where I often say it was confusing because I absolutely adored my mum. You know, she was she was beautiful, she was amazing, she was very loving. But this is where when I reflect back, I can see that real Jekyll and Hyde character and and the devastation that alcohol can put in the family. And when I was 13, that's when my mum made the decision to end her life. So I think as a family, you know, we were quite fortunate in that I've got these two incredible brothers. They're they're amazing, they they've been my constant support, and and my dad is absolutely awesome. So fortunately for us, we we we became a close unit. But the impact that my mum's death had on us, I think it was often when you talk about trauma and something affecting you, it's like that invisible rucksack scenario where you're sort of walking around and you put your first boulder in. I think my the death of my mum was certainly the the first thing, and I can remember being very, must have been about 11 or 12, really despising alcohol and despising everything that it did because it completely and utterly transformed the woman that I'm loved most in the whole world. So I despised it. But I do remember this, I do remember tasting it and thinking I don't get it. It was then when I was sort of in my teenage years that at school I was introduced to to cannabis and drinking, and straight away I drank differently to all my friends. Straight away I drank to blackout, straight away I was drinking, I was smoking cannabis sort of daily or weekendly, and I just knew I knew that you sort of almost get that warning sign that this isn't going to go too well, and I can remember just feeling different, and I remember feeling like my head was going quieter, that all of the internal struggles that I often feel, because fundamentally I feel uncomfortable in my own skin a lot of the time, not so much now, not even close, but as a teenager, I just felt different. As a teenager, I just felt like I was always watching and I just couldn't be present or get involved. And there was lots of things that I use as escapism, it was music and drama and all of those things. But when I found substances, even as a teenager, that's where something slightly started to click.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, I I can see the need for for the need for escapism because I suppose there's the few things that I picked up on there, and and and correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess being in a military or your dad having a military background, was he quite regimental at all or quite strict at all?

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Yeah, he but in a but in a in a necessary way, not in a because with my dad, he's so kind and compassionate, but there is there's there's this directness, and I think the other day I was I was with a mentor that I worked with with the clearer, and they said, Whose leadership style do you admire the most? I sort of said, Well, actually, my dad's leadership. But yes, there is this expectation when you're in the army, and I remember with my mum and and how much she struggled with her mental health and alcoholism. When you're in an army barracks and an army compound, it's very much swept under the carpet. You can't expose the fact that you've got an alcoholic in the family. It's in the 90s, there's not the help that there is today. So there was this huge, massive stigma attached to it. There was this huge shame. And fair play to my dad, you know, as strict as he was, and yes, he was strict in in many ways. You know, he was he was 36 years old,

Bullying School Instability And Self-Doubt

SPEAKER_02 5:35

left with three kids and a full-time career in the army. So he was still showing up being a sergeant major. So, you know, uh it's it was really tricky. And of for me, I suppose that's where I sort of tried to grow up quicker than than than I needed to.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I was gonna say that was gonna be the the next part, really, because I I suppose the one thing that we we talk a lot about you know when we're looking at you know childhood is is the need for stability, and I suppose you know, even with a a strong family unit there, moving to all these different locations, there's gonna be a massive lack of stability there in yourself because you're not necessarily gonna be able to make the connections with friends in the way that's quite important during childhood as well. Did how how did that impact you in in those teenager years as well?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

It it impacts massively because the thing is I children can be quite cruel, teenagers can be quite cruel, and I and I did I'd get bullied quite a lot in quite a few different schools and over silly little things. I remember once I had to go to one school and we didn't have time to get the new uniform, and I had to wear trousers because that was the previous uniform and that was it constantly straight away, and I always had to work really hard to try and fit in. Fortunately, I suppose in the last school I did, but it was all it's as soon as you sort of make a friendship group, then it's it's time to move on, and then you start a new school, and then you have to go through all that constant pressures, and so it's almost confusing. I mean, as silly as it is, I remember being sat down once, and then the question was E17 or take that, and at that time the pressure to answer this correct correctly was it felt immense. So I'm like E17, obviously. So fortunately it was the right answer. Yeah, so but it's those silly little things, and um yeah, so it is tough. And I suppose for me, my education did take a battering for it. I I'm I probably I'm pretty dyslexic in many ways. But that'd be harder to notice if you're moving from school to school as well as it's harder to notice, and of course, I would look for loopholes so I wouldn't have to go into the to the slower classes because if I was in the slower classes, then it made me look like I didn't know what I was talking about. I've always been quite bright, but maths, spellings, all of those things, it just holds you back because I knew that when it came to doing my GCSEs, I needed four C's in order to go to college to get to university. So you know, the four C's are focused on the big ones food technology, media studies, drama, and um I think it was English. So I was in I got the big four. But that's what I had to focus on because I I couldn't, I wasn't very good at math. I I'm awful at math, and and I'm and so and of course when you're changing schools, teachers teach differently, and then you're trying to, you know, and you don't want to ask questions because if you ask too many questions, it's so it's all of those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

And I I think even you know, quite uh I guess uh an underrated or underacknowledged thing is the importance of those relationships with teachers as well. I feel quite lucky during my secondary school that I had some stability there, and when my parents went through a divorce, I felt really supported by my teachers because they knew me well enough as well. And I think you know, the idea of jumping from school to school, not even being able to have that, I suppose, that connection with with those teachers. And it's interesting to talk about your mum and her alcoholism as well, because it kind of brings us back to the adage of is alcoholism is it hereditary or is it like learned behaviour? So I guess looking at at your mum's relationship with alcohol, it is I suppose how do you view it? Because I guess the argument there is you maybe picked up on some things because you were in the same environment as her, or do you kind of have that belief of it's a disease, it's in my genes, it's in my DNA, that I was always destined to be an alcoholic because of my mum and her dependency as well?

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Do you know what I don't know is the answer because the way in which I look at it, so I, the addict in my family, so I went on to alcohol and drug addiction, and I've got my two brothers who drew up, grew up in the same household, uh, suffered the same trauma, went through the same things as me. My older brother, who then joined the army, he went on to do four tours. He was in Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Iraq, all of these places. He hasn't come back and he hasn't needed felt the need to drink himself to oblivion because he doesn't know how to to deal with life. Um and my my little brother certainly he you know he he doesn't have that in him either. So I don't know is the answer because I've certainly if it if it is a a hereditary thing, maybe I got the gene and and it missed the boys, but I do feel that a lot of it is it's my own internal dialogue and it's my own internal unmanageability, it's that sort of self-sacrifice, that thing that keeps on driving me to say that you're no good or you'll never be able to do this, you can't achieve this, or or I would want to achieve so much and aim for so high, and then I'd get to that place and I'd be like, I just can't do this anymore, and I just need everything to go away again. I'd you know, it was just busy all the time.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Where does that voice come from, do you think? That that telling you, you know, you can't do this, you know, you're not good enough. Is that something that you've just built up yourself, or is that something that has kind of been instilled in you? I'm just thinking about you jumping from school to school or all these different environments. How how did that inner voice come to be?

SPEAKER_02 11:10

I think it's a mixture of things. I think it's I think it's failed attempts at different things where and I think it's not I think it's it's been you know, it's it's that constant comparison, and I suppose for me when I have to when I was going from place to place, there would be that person that was really amazing at stuff, and then I'd have to compare and try and get, oh, I'll never be like this person, which is it's quite a sad way of looking at it, really. But at the same time, within me there have there has always been this sort of kick in the guts at the same time because I have always pushed things to to to achieve and to strive for better and to do more. But unfortunately for me, the drugs and alcohol took all of that away for a very long time. And that's you know, the the the opposite it's I suppose when you get into recovery that sometimes you can reflect, well, I know I do, I reflect on so many missed opportunities and so many things that that could have happened that didn't as a result of of drug and alcohol addiction. And I don't, you know, once you've passed through that sort of cutoff, it's very hard to come back.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It's interesting you said about the the the comparative behaviour that and I think we all do it. I guess one of the things that was shared with me, which I've always found very poignant, and and whenever I do find myself reflecting on what other people are doing or what other people are achieving, it's the the quote of uh comparison is the thief of joy. And I always loved that because I think that's right, once I do start comparing everything, I'm just stop kind of enjoying what I'm doing because I I see what other people are doing and I want to be as good as them or better that you know. That's the sort of thing, but it it's something that I think we all deal with, especially in this day with like social media, especially. Do you know? Yeah. Always seeing people, you know, posting the highlights, and no one ever really shares the lows, do they? No, I suppose that's that's always the interesting thing. I guess going back to you know the teenage years as well, you said you noticed there was a a distinct difference between yourself and others

Substances As Confidence And Escape

SPEAKER_00 13:15

and the way that they were using substances. What was you trying to achieve by maybe drinking or taking substances to excess in the way that other people wasn't doing? Um who were you trying to I guess who were you trying to be? Do you know that there's the there's the question.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Well, who I was trying to be was the authentic me because that's what drugs and alcohol enabled me to be in those early stages, that it was absolut you know, it is better than any prescribed medication in the whole wide world for somebody who is you know suffers with this awful anxiety of being around people and stuff like that. I know for me that drugs and alcohol did for me that that nothing else could do. So I was able to be more confident, I was able to party more, I was able to talk to people, I was able to chat to boys, I was able to feel attractive for the first time ever. It's like everything comes up in colour almost. But I know that um in my college years and my and my teenage, sort of my early years of going to university. When I got to to Brighton, I went to to do a degree in theatre arts, and I can just remember it was that that arrival point, it was just like I can be and do whatever I want. I am I am free, and that's where I got introduced to the to the rave culture of the party scene. I was still sort of at uni, but the thing is, it was just like it is that old sort of purely living for the weekends, but my weekends would go from Wednesday to Monday, and it was and it was constant, but it it just meant that I could be I I found a piece of freedom in it. I found connection, I found love, I found all of those things that I wanted to do. But when I was at home on my own and everything's worn off, suddenly the world cut starts coming into my head again, and suddenly everything's shouting at me, and suddenly everything just feels unmanageable and unbearable. And at that time, I was when I was at university, that's when I started using ketamine. Um and it was ketamine that took me to my first rehab, and it was ketamine and alcohol, but ketamine in particular, I became a slave to that drug, you know, horrific health consequences. And I can remember going into my first rehab, and and I'm getting K cramps, and my bladder's going, and and you know, it's my gallbladder's been removed. I was very unwell, and the the counsellors were were telling me the effects of ketamine because it was quite a new drug, and I was like, Well, I know I know what it does, but but how do I stop? How do I stop taking this? Because every time I just wanted to escape reality, I just didn't want to be in the world, and I think I was fortunate enough to to get through my degree and a and a pass, and I and I got and I was working in a corporate world, and I was uh I was working as an actress and I was doing all of these wonderfully creative things, and then on paper, my life looked really brilliant in my I mean I know I'm going to my twenties now, but in my early 20s, on paper, my life looked really successful. I was working for a corporate company in in Brighton. I had a seafront property, I was married, had a lovely little sports car, but I wanted to kill myself. I didn't want to wake up and I would and I and I would take these big attempts on my life, and it would be psychiatric units, and then it would be rehabs, and it was just it it was horrendous. And that that's sort of almost the beginning of the the progression. It wasn't about

Ketamine Dependency And First Rehab

SPEAKER_02 16:52

what I had, it was none of that mattered. It was about how I felt about myself and and and it all goes back to that void. I didn't know what I was filling, I just knew that I just didn't want to be here.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, it's interesting you said that because that takes us again back to that social media analogy of where people's lives look perfect. Yeah. You had the seafood property, you had the nice car, but inside there is there's something, you know, that that just can't be filled. I've I haven't had anybody really talk to me about Ketamine on this series before, despite its popularity now growing exponentially. To be introduced to it, how old was you when you first started taking it? So university years, early 20s?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

So I'm 43, so it was a good, you know, I was tw about I must have been 20 when I started using ketamine.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Can you can you tell me how how when you take ketamine, how does it make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 17:41

So it's it's quite undescribable, really. There's a a sense of almost euphoria, but the the the the thing with ketamine is that it's a disassociate, so it's almost like an anesthetic type quality. So what can happen is that you'll go into almost like a psychedelic world, as it were. So you have this altered perception of reality, so you don't know what's real or what's not real, and within that, you I was able to sort of manipulate the reality, and of course, for me, you know, the the the the high would last 20 to to to 30 minutes and then you you snap back into reality again. I don't think anyone knew back then how how horrendous it is for the body. Um I didn't know it anything was going on as a result of of ketamine use, and I think when I was under these horrific pains, I'd start drinking lots of alcohol, vodka, to to just to make me pass out, just to make me black out. And it it was horrendous. And you know, I can I can remember so many people sort of saying, you know, there's there's there's a real problem here. And my poor dad at the time, um, I was you know, I I said I lost my driving license for drink driving. I just it was my first, what I felt was my major consequence, but he helped me into my first rehab and and and I hadn't told him at that stage that I was on drugs, so it was really hard for him when I when I did say, and my my drug use got worse after after that. But ketamine at the time, it just stripped everything. It's like it's like this zombie that I became. I'm lucky that my body has healed. I think that's the thing with addiction in general, is that physically

Near Death Overdoses And Mind Recovery

SPEAKER_02 19:35

consequences are horrendous, you know. Some of the consequences that I've had through my drug addiction, you know, and and I've I've I've been I've had three cardiac arrests. I've been, you know, I've near I've pretty much nearly died. You know, was that whilst under the influence of substances or like a long-term effect of use and no, that was I overdosed on on heroin, so it's it's very lucky to be here, and also as a result of wanting to end my life and lots of different things. I've had a head injury through through taking drugs and falling on my head, and that that was also so I'm very lucky to be here. But the physical consequences that alcohol and drug addiction strip away are horrendous. That they are you are near death. The difficulty is that when you come into recovery, of course, physically I get well really quick compared to to everything else. Physically, I can heal myself really quite fast. I can I can start showering, I can start presenting better, I can start eating well, I start putting nutrients in my body. But the problem is I haven't managed anything that's going on in my mind. And what I know is that with addiction, for me, it centers in my mind, it's my mind, and that's where it's at most powerful. No matter how physically dependent I've come on drugs and alcohol, when I put the substances down, my mental health gets worse, my feelings come back, my emotions aren't regulated, and I feel so much worse before I get better. And that's where I have to tap into something that's bigger than myself. So I've got this spiritual aspect of me that says, Well, what next? What do I do now? Because and that's the tricky part. So when when you we sort of say is, you know, so why does this person keep doing it? Why does this person keep doing it? And that's because in in so in many ways, when you

Ten Treatments And The Aftercare Gap

SPEAKER_02 21:23

wake up, it's hard to live with with all of that. So I'm really fortunate in that. I've I've I've found a network of people that have helped me along the way, but it took me 10 years to get well, 10 rehab centers, psychiatric units, detox units, because I couldn't listen. And I felt that I could just do things in my own in my own way. I think one of the rehabs, you know, I I I went in, I think it was my sixth rehab, and I made the the the decision that the relation my marriage wasn't working. Which it wasn't, and it it was a really hard decision because I'd been with my husband from the age of 19 until the age of 32, but we were not right for each other. He was still in his sort of drug world, and and and I was, you know, in rehab after rehab trying to come off drugs. I think what tends to happen though is the rehab will say, you know, change everything, change your environment, do this, and then I did all that. Um and the the the constant the I don't know, I don't know how to put it in words. It's that support afterwards, and I made the mistake of well, my feelings are rock bottom, everything else feels awful. I'm four months in my recovery at this point, and I needed somebody else to validate that, so I I met someone new, and that person that I met, which resulted in me trying different drugs, so that's when it was it was heroin and it and it's and it's crack and it's a whole different world that I I did not belong in.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

It's interesting so that you've been there to do detox or and and a rehab ten times, you know, and I I just trying to get myself into to your headspace there. There must be an element of when you've gone in after maybe the second or third time, there must be an element of you going in there that's thinking, this isn't gonna work. This is a waste of time. Did that ever cross your mind? Because I I I'm just trying to get made around going that many times and knowing each time you've gone before it hasn't worked.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

I think um I think I treated rehab like a hospital, i.e., I've got a broken arm, I'll go get an operation, I'll leave, and then I'll be alright. I wasn't I didn't put the the work in afterwards, and the thing is, you know, each rehab I learnt so much from. I mean, I went to an all-female rehab for one of them, and it was incredible, you know, and I and I learnt a lot. The the the the problem with rehab, and and I suppose this is where I'm so passionate about Leroes, and I'm so passionate about the work that Leroes do, and I suppose it goes back to meeting my boss Paul Jackson, the basement project, is that when you get someone who's is sort of dying in their own soil and they're using and then it's their environment, and they're like this wilted flower that's got you know all darkness, everything else. You dig that plant up, you put them in a res residential rehab. Well, in that residential rehab, they're getting fed and watered and nutrients and all of this, and they're there, you're brilliant, you're the best version of yourself, and that's three months.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Now, drug addiction's 20 to 25 years, and in three months, they look like a flower that's bloomed that that that Alan Titchmaster's grown. So, but the problem is you then put them back into the soil that they're originally in, into the dark room where they're not getting the new shit.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

So, and this is where Lero work is so important because if they're back in there, well, then what do they do? Yes, there's fellowships, and I I I'm a member of a fellowship myself, and I wholeheartedly had to embrace everything about the fellowship, and I had to do what my sponsor suggested, but I just remember those early days how overwhelming everything is. Um, and so that's where if you can make new roots in your in the own soil that you've got and start making new connections and start building up relationships from that, then you start changing your environment, and that's the thing that you've got to look at doing because I know that I'm surrounded by people that that that really want the best for me. I'm very fortunate in that some of my friends from Brighton, the the the the decent friends, you know, that I'm still friends with a lot of them, but they had to they had to part ways with me for many years because they couldn't watch what I was doing to myself, they couldn't watch the self-destruction

COVID Turning Point And Finding Fellowship

SPEAKER_02 25:44

and the path that I was on. I mean it was horrendous.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Throughout this story, the the thing that I'm picking up on is connection. I think looking at that childhood where you were moving from country to country, school to school, you're not getting the chance to really develop those connections. When you first started using substances and you talked about the rare scene, you talked about the connection that you had with people. And it's interesting to say that because they often say the opposite of addiction, it's not sobriety, it's connection. And I've always I've always loved that because I think a lot of people in addiction are isolated. It goes back to the the flower metaphor of being in that dark room, being by yourself. You could be sat in a room with you know four other people all using, but you really are by yourself, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 26:31

A hundred percent. I was the loneliest person in the world. The internal loneliness that I suffer with, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. And because of that, I'd push my family away in that they don't understand me, I'm so misunderstood. You know, it's that terminal uniqueness, my uniqueness and what I understood about myself was gonna kill me. And it is when you open up your heart and you start getting connection to to the people around you, and that's where my recovery I've been so lucky, so lucky with the people I've met, JP from it who who were we founded the detox factor, Port Jacks, where we launched Chase Recovery. But it's all the other people that I've met on the way, and I got well during COVID. So I was so May 2020, I was in a tent in Southampton. I'd told my family I didn't want anything to do with them. My family had tried to detox me again, but I made the decision at that time that I was just going to be an addict and I was gonna die an addict, and I and I just made this sort of resolution, but COVID happened, and for I think for everyone else in the world, it was the worst thing ever. For me, it it saved my life because my my family sort of said, you know, you've got one more opportunity here that COVID is, you know, because when you're at that time there was nowhere for me to go, there's no facilities open, there was nothing. So it was either stay in this place or go to that final rehab, and and I did, and I went to this uh place in in Leicester, and my brother picked me up, he didn't recognise me, he said I don't, you know, it was just horrendous. And I walked in, and you said a moment ago how each time I've been into a rehab, you must have thought, Oh, this is this is never gonna work, this is never gonna work. And I got to chestnuts in Leicester, and I don't know why, but Debbie who came out, she said to me, You never have to be alone again. And where we've just spoken about loneliness and connection and all of those things, I'd like, you know, and I I heard her, I just heard her, and it was like something did melt in me that day. Um, and so she took me in, and it and it was it was just so different. She straight away she taught me how to pray, she was giving me affirmations in the morning, she gave me this horrendous task of looking at myself in the mirror, but it it built up from there. And when I left treatment, I went into a sober living house, and I can remember sitting in this sober living house thinking, oh, I don't I I don't know what to do with myself. And Zoom happened, and all the fellowships went on Zoom. And you know what? I was smashing five meetings a day sometimes. It became a bit of a new thing, it was an escapism, and I was going to like morning meetings and afternoon meetings. And for me, I think COVID actually gave me a bit of clarity and focus because I I didn't have anywhere to go.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

I mean, I know that drug dealers were still operating, but you know, it is interesting because I again I COVID was a very isolating time for a lot of people, but you're not the only person that has mentioned founding connection during that time as well. And I think it it's it's funny how do you know by kind of being isolated from from everybody, it almost gives us a time to like okay, this is the time to work on yourself, yeah. Because there's nothing else to do. Yeah, you've got you're allowed out your house an hour a day or something like that, you know. Now is the time to focus on yourself.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

And that's exactly what I did. And I and I got a sponsor and I went through the work, but then I started to do other bits and bobs, and it's I think it's all I think I keep going back to your question, and I and it's ruminating in my head because why would I think it works that time? But I think part of me there's there's been so many times where I've been sat in a situation or or somewhere where uh where in my head I've I've known that actually I I shouldn't be here. There's there's got to be more to life than this, and I know that a lot of people say, you know, you can't get well for your your family or your children or that love isn't enough. I and I don't think love is enough to could to get well past like this, but at the same time, I think in the back of my head, I've got this your family actually do it all you, you know, you've you've got you've you you don't have to die like this, you know. You've and so I I suppose there is that one it's that window of opportunity, isn't it? Um I know that when I meet people who are starting in their journey, the window of opportunity is tiny. Yes, and you're not always gonna, you know, it took me years to listen, years and years and years to listen, and it was a really painful I think in some ways it's more devastating for my family to to have to have watched all of that than it is for me to have lived it in many ways. I think I think that the families of loved ones get a much harder time in many ways, um, because it's the it's the renewed hope and then it's down again, renewed hope and then it's down again. You know, it's it's horrendous to live with an addict.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

You said earlier about you had the beachfront property, the the nice car, the good job, you were working as an actress, but there was a void there. Since

Stereotypes Recovery Capital And Progression

SPEAKER_00 31:59

you know, achieving sobriety and found a recovery, have you since found out what that void was?

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Um I think a lot of it was down to just not liking who I was, a lot of it was down to not embracing who I was. I think the the the the thing that I always wanted to do was I suppose I I always I always wanted to be, you know, the the famous actress or or a singer or any of those things, but the the void was always the as you described earlier, it was always the the internal loneliness. Because even if I even if I was doing all of these things, you know, I had a my wedding day was was massive, but at the same time I still felt lonely. You know, and I think that's the void and and today today I don't feel I don't feel that loneliness. I don't and that's even in my own company, you know, I I I don't I'm okay with that today. I think I think it it can take time. I mean I I know for at one point it was just like um it's that new sober life of like, oh I'm never gonna get a boyfriend, I'm never gonna do this, I'm never gonna do that. And I'm watching rom coms as self-harm and then eating rubbish food, you know, just like oh this is the worst ever. And I can't live a life. But it's amazing how it all passes. It's incredible how you meet so many people from all different walks of life because that's the thing with addiction. The demographic is humongous, you know, through through our doors, we have police officers, midwives, solicitors, and then we also have people that that don't have a home, you know. So the demographic is massive. And I think when people come, and and I suppose in some ways, I probably, especially in my earlier stages of trying to get well, I came in to recovery with so much recovery capital that I thought I could think my way out of addiction. Well, I can't be an addict because I've got a job, and I can't be an addict because I can do this, and I can't be like these people because the stereotype was still very much in my mind. You know, I'd sit in a meeting and I'm thinking, well, I'm a party girl from Brighton who uses ketamine and and alcohol and all these substances, I'm not a heroin addict yet, and that's the reality of addiction because it is progressive, and it's when the progression keeps getting you, and and just as you hit that rock bottom, another one's in the post, and that's when it's the unacceptable becomes totally the acceptable. It's like if you live in a penthouse apartment and for some reason you've got to downsize, you downsize your apartment, you think, oh, actually, this is quite nice, and then you've got to downsize again, suddenly you're in a two-bedroom flat, go, actually, this is cozy. I didn't need five bedrooms. So you just get accustomed to whatever it is, and you know, all of those unacceptable behaviours, totally the norm. It's like you don't even question yourself, all right. It's all right. If I start drinking at eight o'clock in the morning, well, I'll just do it this one day to get rid of this hangover, and before you know it, it's every day. And and and then I'm nipping out at lunchtime.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Stereotypes and stigma is obviously a big part of what we do, and even today I find myself kind of succumbing to that because as you as you sat opposite me when we first started talking and you mentioned alcohol, I was like, Yeah, I can see that. Then you mentioned Ketterman. I went, Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think you'd been someone that used Kerman. And then you talked about heroin and crackcooking. No, I'm looking at you today thinking she doesn't look like someone who's you know had problems with heroin and crackcooking. And I say that as someone who works in these services, so the you can walk down the street and no one's ever going to think that you had those sort of problems, you know, historically. And I think that in itself is so interesting, isn't it? About the the stereotype of what does someone who has had or does have substance misuse problems have? You mentioned police, you mentioned midwives. Yes, the stereotype exists for a reason because it is out there, but it's also all these other people that could be affected as well, and I find that really interesting. But you said about coming through your

Building Chase Recovery Without Lanyards

SPEAKER_00 36:10

doors. Tell me a little bit about being part of Chase Recovery, and I mean, what did that community give you that you couldn't find on your own? I mean, we've talked about the loneliness and the connection. Was there more there as well?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Yes, so I was really, really fortunate in that I was so I I think in my first year of recovery, just towards the end, I was a pay mentor for CTL actually, is it, in in Walsall. And then I managed to get a voluntary position with the the drug service, which is now inclusion, but which is stars up the road. And my volunteer job at the time was ringing people up as part of the employment service to see if they'd done their CV. Now it'd been COVID. My ring being, no, but I haven't thinking, well, okay, uh, how many people? And then Paul Jacks, uh, who's the founder of Chase Recovery, came into the drug service and told me about this project. And um, so the next day he said, Well, I'm looking at venues tomorrow. Do you want to come along? And I said, Yeah, absolutely. So we looked at a couple of venues, and it was the basement project from Halifax that that helped us, you know, Michelle, Stuart, and Larry were absolutely brilliant as well. And do you know what it was? They asked my opinion. It sounds really silly, but they took me out to these premises, and I'm looking at these guys, you know, with like 10 years plus recovery, and I'm and I've just got my year, I've never been a year before in my life, so everything's getting built up, and then they're having these big conversations, and then they all turn and they said, Well, what do you think? It was so cool, it was really, you know, because normally the the experience that I find is sometimes in in recovery that sometimes it gets done to people a hell of a lot, and do this and sit there and carry on, and then suddenly they're asking my opinion, and that's what I loved about it, and that's what I love about Chase Recovery because we have a 28-week therapeutic programme and it's fabulous, and we see people from the first moment they step through the door. So if they need a detox, and then they'll go on a pathway to detox in Staffordshire. It's very unique in that we are under what's called a section 75. So around the table is the council inclusion, the medical model, the the rehab, the Burton Addiction Centre, another Leroy better way, and and ourselves, and we have these conversations. What's what we're going to do for Staffordshire? But what I love about Chase Recovery is the community of people. So we first started working in out of the Quaker meeting house, and it's grown. And we've now got a building that's open five days a week that we own uh in Stafford, and it was Paul that has always he's never said no, if I've had an idea. So there's been things like um we wanted to do a festival, so we did Recover Fest, which has grown. We started off a festival which was around 500 people last year, 1,500 people came to Recover Fest and New Toxter, which was organised with our partners at BAC. We had to, we've done plays, we've done, and I'll talk about the detox factor in a moment, but the detox factor was all grown, and it's always been well, why don't you try it? Why don't we pilot it? So we're going into prisons, we're going into different places, and the the it's what I love, and this is where a a Lero is so so unique and special, is you know, there's no lanyards. If you walk into our building, you wouldn't know who's who.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

And do you know I will comment on this so important that we've got a little kitchen area downstairs. If I go in there with my lanyard, I feel like I'm treaded differently to how I go in there when I haven't got my lanyard.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Yeah, we don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Do you know that it it makes a big difference, doesn't it? Because it it it well intentioned or not, it does create an us and them environment having the lanyards, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Yeah, it does. And the thing is, you know, I'm I'm in recovery, I've just been in recovery longer than the people. And and I will often say to the people that are new in, it's not me that will sort of tell them how to work the programme. I'll get one somebody else to tell them because they'll have more to relate. If if somebody's walking in and they are they're in their first 24 hours, they don't want to speak to someone like me who's been who's been on it a bit longer, they want to speak to the guy that's just done 30 days. That's exciting. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I love that you recognize that.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

It's so exciting. It's like this guy's got 30 days. How's he done it?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

So much has changed as well when I when I see people with 10 plus years of recovery trying to relate to the person who you know, and it's like, yes, you were there, but it was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

A long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

And you've probably maybe even in some way, not necessarily forgot the the true hardships of it, but you may have just forgotten some of those day-to-day struggles in that time. I can't remember what my life was like 10 years ago. I know it was very different to what it is now.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

And and and that's the thing. I mean, with our sort of our choice, we we call them choices calls processor. We get referrals in from drug services online anywhere, really. We'll sort of marry the person up, you know, if and but yeah, if if uh because I can remember going in, I can remember sitting in fellowship meetings, and there'd be someone banging on about how I'm a grateful addict, and I'd think, well, you're an absolute moron because I've got nothing to be grateful for, and I don't get it. And they'll say, you know, and I'm 10 years, and I'm thinking in my head, he's a liar, nobody can be off substances for 10 years. So, of course, introduce them to the person that's smashing it with in 30 days because they're on fire with the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

And do you know I when you say that it does remind me, I like to share the story of uh a service user that we had uh coming in before working, you know,

The Detox Factor Films Music And Theatre

SPEAKER_00 41:52

alongside some of our volunteers who maybe had about a year's you know, worth of lived it or worth of surprise under the under the belt, adamant that this person was an actor because nobody gets drug-free, especially not for that long, do you know, yeah. It's like it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. You mentioned the the the detox factor, it's a a CIC. How is that different to Chase Recovery?

SPEAKER_02 42:12

So the detox factor was formed about three and a half years ago. So what the the Recovery Street Film Festival, they have a national competition every year. And uh I won it one year. You did? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Oh we have to do it. It's a really good competition. I absolutely loved it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

It's down to that. We sort of flared our so congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Uh so I'll have to I'll I'll send you a link afterwards. It was one that I did, it was called Breaking Free. I did it during COVID, and uh we talk about how you have to distract yourself for just even just a short amount of time. And I was one of my volunteers I was working with at the time, and he the the the film plays out that I give him a call, how are you doing? Yeah. I said, you know, it's all about distracting yourself, even just for a moment. And he uh he kind of like looks off into this and it goes into a little dream sequence, and then it was uh me dancing to Queen Break break free.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Do you know? I want to, and I was dressed as like do you know in the video where he's dressed, obviously, in woman's clothing. So there I was in woman's clothing in my living room dancing around, sort of thing, and then I anyway, snap him out of the dream sequence, and I'm back there on the phone. I was like, yeah, anyway. He he goes, Yeah, he goes, I've got to break free, and he pours his wine down the down the fridge, uh down the sink, you know. So it was a very short three-minute film just about that during COVID. How do we destroy because that's what it is that live that every one day at a time, sort of thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Well, this is what the the the a very fun project to do.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

I really really enjoyed being part of it.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

So it's an incredible project because so JP had just come out of detox, and he well, JP needed a lot to do when he came out. He was there, but the the the competition landed in in my emails, and I said, should we give it a go? And we did a little film called Washing Machine Head, filmed on my phone, and it was just My head feels like a washing machine. JP's a rapper. So he rapped, and I said, Let's make it like a jingle. And then we did it. And we came third. We couldn't believe it. So the commissioner paid for us to go to London. Some of some of the guys had never been to London before. So that that was exciting. And then when we got back, me and JP said, Well, you know, I don't want this to end. And JP went away and said, Well, no, I don't want it to end. And he came up with the with the the logo, he was mucking around at the time. The detox factor is like the X factor, but the detox factor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he did he ripped off the logo and stuff. And then afterwards, we just started to create, and then we we entered another film that time this time at one. And then we we started to write and create. Well, we uh we didn't write music, JP writes some music, and then we started to do gigs, and I I sing, and then he raps, and we we were really fortunate last year that we got to do quite a few gigs. We did Essex Festival Recover Fest. I think we we were at the DDN News, which is where we met you guys, and then we've done the Recovery Street Film Festival in London, Soberfest in North Wales, and then um we also then because of our community, and I get really the community members of the detox factor are incredible. These people they've they've they've never acted, they've never done anything like that before. Because my background is in acting and and and JP's is in music. I've been able to develop improvisation workshops. He's done a something that was called Lyrical Awakening, where we made a hip-hop video and it was their lyrics, and and they they wrote their own lyrics and then we we filmed it. Then we created Wake Up Sammy. So I wrote Wake Up Sammy, um, and it I never when we first started the project, I said to JP, you know, I'd love it one day if we could go into a real theatre and and and really do a play and and get everyone doing it. But when we go back, you know, if we if we talk about that stigma thing, what I didn't want to do is just go into a theatre space and be like, look at these guys, and then the the expectation be like, oh yeah, that was alright, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

I really want almost like a pity round of applause. Yeah, well done, guys. Good for you getting up there.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Yeah, no, this isn't this isn't what the detox fact is about. We we actually teach people skills. So when when I'm when we're doing the drama workshops, they learn about different practitioners, they learn about Sandrasowski and the system and stuff like that. They learn how to do proper improvisation workshops. So Wake Up Sammy is a play essentially about one man's journey through recovery, and he they are based in a wake, and you see his life unfold as it goes along. So we have an amazing amazingly about a cast of 20, I think it is, with all the extras and everything else. And what happens is he goes into rehab and he has his spiritual awakening when he meets a robin in a rehab. Now, if you ask people about rehab, there'll be so many people that will tell you that a robin appeared in a rehab.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

It's interesting because I'm sure I've heard somebody tell me this before.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yes, a robin often, and robins appear everywhere, but I think when you are at a place where you know, like a rehab or somewhere, suddenly you're noticing the robin, and then of course there's all the all the attachment to it, loved ones and ear, and all of those things. So Sammy has this spiritual awakening when a Robin appears and then the the show goes on. We're quite fortunate in that this year we are performing on the 29th and the 30th of January, actually. So we we we sold out last year, and that's at the Gatehouse in Stafford. And I think that's the beauty of it is that we're in a professional theatre. The members who are in the play have treated it like a professional production. In that, of course, you have to go gently, it's overwhelming, but they've learned their lines, they are acting their absolute socks off, they're finding moments in it that I didn't even think that were there. You know, that it's it's it's really quite beautiful what what they've managed to do. And um, on the second part of Wake Up Sammy, we've got other organisations joining us, and so we go into what's called the fourth dimension of existence, and we've got so the Burton Addiction Centre, Sons of Jericho, which they're really cool, the Sons of Jericho. They're they're some lads that have formed a band from Jericho House in Derby. Okay, so they're doing a little skit, and then we've got a couple of singers from the the drug and alcohol service, a family, they're incredible, and then we've got with Chase Recovery, we've got our own choir, so voices of 62. So, you know, it's it's it's just quite incredible how for me I'm a big advocate of creative recovery. Yeah, and I think you would get it. Absolutely 100%.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah, well, I do I understand I know I I fully understand. I mean, we've you know, we we've we have creative sessions here. It's I guess the thing that I find interesting is often people who have had uh substance misuse and addiction problems are some of the most creative people you could ever meet. The problem is, you talk about the the drugs have almost suppressed that creativity for so long that when they do achieve sobriety, it's the it's the chance for the creativity to just come pouring out, you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

I thought I'd never act again, I thought I'd never sing again, I thought that side of me would have to go with because it's that old thing of like, you know, drugs and alcohol made me so creative. It what a load of nonsense that is. It is the biggest pile of baloney I've ever listened to because I decided that I'd act again in recovery and I played Margaret Thatcher.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Oh really? The dream rule.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Well, I went, I auditioned for the Queen, and the director said, Will you read for Margaret Thatcher? I thought I don't know how to take this, but yeah, I'll I'll read for Margaret Thatcher. I wanted to be the Queen, but I got Margaret. But I suddenly realised I could do it again, and then that's where the the the the that burning desire to keep doing it, and it's when it's when you see other things light for for people, and when people are going away and creative, there's nothing better than when you've had a rehearsal or a workshop or you've done these. We had um a monologue workshop uh about a month ago, and it was I wanted everyone to come up with their own characters, they had to work on the characters, they wrote their own monologues, they're one minute, couldn't be longer than a minute or shorter than a minute, and it was really funny watching reading the WhatsApp group because they started contacting each other in their characters and sharing songs that they can and it was just really lovely. And if you know, for so many years we we seek out escapism and stuff like that, and for me, I find that in in in creativity.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Yes, I wish I could find it in the gym sometimes, but but you still get that escapism, but in in in just in different and and much more healthier words now.

Advice Quickfire Questions And Closing

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Hugely healthy.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

I g I guess one of the last questions that I'd like to ask then is if there is somebody that maybe finds themselves in a similar position to uh to what you found yourself in, is there any advice you'd give them, or is there a piece of advice that you were given that you'd like to share with other people? Um It's hard because everyone's different, isn't it? I can't I always under I always understand that, but I'm always interested if something ever someone ever said something to you that's always really poignant or something that ever really stood out.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Yeah, I think I think it is it it goes down to a to a to what it it does go down to what Debbie said to me in in the rehab really it's you don't have to be alone ever again ever again there has to there has to be a decision made once the decision is made just stick to the decision and it is I suppose the biggest decision that I ever had to make in my whole life was turning well I say my will in my life over to some people it's God, some people it's higher power for me it is now, but at that time in those early, early days, I made a decision to turn my will, my my life, over to the care of the people that knew best, of the people that wanted to see me well. It's not at that moment in time, it's not about God higher power, it is about looking at these people and saying, Do you know what? You I'm just gonna let you run the show for a little while because whatever I'm doing, it's just not working. And it wasn't. It really wasn't. And I think as soon as that I'd as soon as I'd made that decision, I felt lighter. I suppose it's like anything really when you when you look at it, if you make the decision to to buy a new car and then you're happy with the new car, you've made the right decision. But when it comes to handing a life over, you're just like, oh no, I don't know if these people, you know, but it it's a decision that has to it has to come about at some point.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

No, thank you, Kara. I like to finish all of my podcasts with a a series of I try and do quickfire questions, but people do tend to ponder them a little bit. And my first question for you is what is your favourite word? Pickle. Least favourite word.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

I don't think I have one.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Something that excites you.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Music.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Something that bores you or drains your energy.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Math.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

What sound or noise do you love?

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Motorways. I used to listen to white noise. I like the car.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah. What sound or noise do you hate?

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Oh squeaky, you know, squeaky trainers in the supermarket or if they're wet and then someone squeaks their trainers.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Especially when they start shuffling their feet as they first come into the shop, yeah. Yeah. When do you feel most like yourself?

SPEAKER_02 54:07

At work.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Is there a profession that you'd like to attempt that you haven't done before?

SPEAKER_02 54:13

I feel silly for saying it, but I wouldn't mind having a little sneaky peek in what goes on in government.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

In government, yeah. Just you know, because partly you wonder is anything going on in that place? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

So I don't know. Yeah, politics is always, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

What profession would you not like to do? Just the worst job you can imagine doing for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Anything to do with roads.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

Although I like that. That's interesting though, you like the sound of a road.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

But no, don't know where I put them, yeah. And lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearley Gates?

SPEAKER_02 54:47

You made it? Well done, mate!

SPEAKER_00 54:51

There you go. You've done it.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

You did it!

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Cara, thank you so much for joining me on Believe in People. Thank you. And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People Podcast, we love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates, explore the links in this episode description. And to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories, you can visit us directly at believingpeoplepodcast.com.