Dates, Mates and Babies with the Vallottons
We’re the Vallottons, and we’re passionate about people! Every human was created for fulfilling connections in relationship and family, but it’s not always what comes easiest! We know this because of our wide range of personal experiences as well as years of working with people. So we’re going to crack open topics like dating, marriage, family and parenting to encourage, entertain and equip you for a deeply fulfilling life of relational health.
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Dates, Mates and Babies with the Vallottons
83. Parenting the Hard Stuff: Dating
This is the second part in a three part series on Parenting the Hard Stuff! In this episode, Jason and Lauren Vallotton sit down with Ben and Brittney Serpell, parents of three and Senior Leaders at Loving on Purpose, to discuss the challenges of guiding children through the world of dating.
Key Discussion Points:
- Imperfect Parenting: Brittney Serpell shares her thoughts on navigating the ups and downs of parenting, emphasizing the importance of connection with your children.
- When is the Right Time to Start Dating? The Serpells discuss the idea that there is no "one size fits all" answer, as each child is unique. They stress the importance of maturity, connection with parents, and a relationship with God in guiding this decision.
- Preparing Kids for Dating: Learn how to set expectations for your children as they start exploring romantic relationships. The Serpells discuss the importance of helping kids understand the emotions and decisions that come with liking someone.
- Purpose of Dating: We explore the idea that dating in youth should be about getting to know someone, having fun, and learning about yourself—rather than searching for a lifelong partner.
- Parental Intervention: The Serpells share a personal story about their daughter Delani and how they navigated a challenging dating situation. They also offer advice on when and how parents should step in if things aren’t going well.
- Navigating Screens in Dating: With technology playing a significant role in today’s dating world, Ben and Brittney discuss the importance of helping kids filter their communication and make wise choices.
- Leading Kids Through Dating: The conversation delves into guiding children through the emotional, physical, and relational aspects of dating, emphasizing the need to balance validation with pointing them toward healthy relationships.
- Understanding Love vs. Passion: The Serpells talk about helping kids differentiate between love and passion, and the importance of maturity in relationships.
Affiliate Linked Resources:
Imperfect Parenting by Brittney Serpell is recommended for parents who are wanting to grow in connection-based parenting.
Dr. Meg Meeker's books are recommended for parents who working to build their sons and daughters.
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Welcome back to Dates, mates and Babies with the Ballotons everyone. We have some awesome guests this morning.
Speaker 2:We do. We are in week two of our Parenting the Hard Stuff mini-series. And you guys, today we're going to talk about the trigger topic of dating, parenting, dating, and we decided to bring on our friends Ben and Brittany Serpel. They are incredible parents of three beautiful kids, now teenagers as well, and they're also senior leaders at Loving on Purpose. So I'm going to let them introduce themselves to you guys, our amazing listeners. And Ben and Britt, will you tell us a little bit about what you guys do and kind of the stage of life that your family is in? Yeah, well, thanks for having us.
Speaker 4:I know it's great to be here. We are about to cross over 21 years of marriage, which means we're 12 years old. If you see a picture of us you'll be confused. But and then our oldest is 19. Next one two girls. Next one Adeline Delaney's 19. Adeline is 15. And then Lincoln's 12.
Speaker 3:so we are very much in the teenage slash, learning how to be adult parent stage they're all very aware of the opposite sex and they are very much uh been paying attention to boys and girls they're in the topic uh, in the house more than ever, it feels like You're in it, we are, we are in it.
Speaker 2:So tell us a tiny bit, too, about your work with Loving on Purpose, because this topic, not only are you in it in your family life, but a lot of your work is centers around helping people and helping families grow in these areas of emotional and relational health and parenting and all the things. So yeah, tie that in for us a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I've been working with my dad, who's Danny Silk, that's. That's my last name Still I'm going to the same, but still in there for the last 11 years I think, and I've been a student of my parents my whole life. I can't seem to get away from them. I love what they do and I love helping families. I wrote a book called Imperfect Parenting a couple years ago and we just we've given our life to serving people and really chasing after helping families become whole and healthy and just bring in the goodness of God in that, and we're just equipping families to do that. So that's what we love to do and that's what we spend almost every day doing in one way or another, from podcasts to meetings, coaching, or do we have an online school? I mean, we just have been serving this, I guess the world really, I would say the nation, but it's more than that, it's the world. So we love families and we love helping parents feel successful and enjoy parenting. I think that's the big thing is you should enjoy marriage.
Speaker 3:It should be beautiful and fun, and you should enjoy parenting. It is not without challenge, but it should be fun and it should be full of joy, and I think that's what we're trying to help families realize.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, I was going to add she covered most of it, but I I think in essence what we're trying to help families realize.
Speaker 4:Well, okay, I was going to add, she covered most of it, but I I think, in essence, what we're really trying to do is is release relational champions just all over the world and just just every every part of family, marriage, church, um, that relationships are everywhere. If you can't tell, um, we're talking about parenting today, but that's that's really the heart is, we have relational champions showing up everywhere.
Speaker 1:Well, you guys are so good at it. So thanks so much, guys, for coming on and hanging out with us today. The subject of dating in the Christian world is so complicated it really is, especially for our kids, right? Because we have this tension between there's like two camps. The one camp is I'm not going to let my kids date until they're 18 years old.
Speaker 1:What's the point of dating, right, if they can't get married dating? The point of dating is to date someone to find out if you want to marry them, and it creates a bunch of confusion for kids. And then the other camp is no, kids need to learn how to date someone and make decisions while they're in the home, right, like, as long as you're in the home, make all the, all the mistakes you're going to make while you have mom and dad with you. And and then you have books that came out like, uh, I kiss, I kiss, dating goodbye, which, by the way, that guy a few years ago completely came back and said hey, that book that I wrote yeah, don't listen to it that was a bad idea, which was amazing, but you kind of have these different camps.
Speaker 1:I know that my parents were definitely in the make all your mistakes that you can while you have us at home. I remember my dad encouraging me like, hey, are there any girls you like? I'm like dad. I'm in the second grade, you know.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, he was yapping.
Speaker 1:Chill on that. But no, I remember, like even being in the sixth grade and my dad being like hey, you know, it's normal to like girls and it's normal to want to hold a girl's hand and it's okay to to someone out on a date. And I remember taking leah johnson out on to the destruction derby. That's a great date so romantic yeah six grade my dad gave me like uh 10 bucks to spend on her not yeah, I felt like the man you know.
Speaker 2:I had my 10 bucks it went a long way I mean you
Speaker 3:might as well give me a thousand dollars.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so he gave me some money and I just remember, like you know, doing that for a while. I dated her from sixth grade, off and on, you know, for a while. I mean that's just how relationships were and it was exciting and fun and it opened up a ton of conversation for us. It opened up a ton of conversation for us, but, you know, we we are very much in an interesting world. The world that I grew up in is very different than the world that my kids are growing up in, and so, as parents are starting to think through these big decisions that we have to make, you know, and, and more importantly, navigating our kids' desires and learning how to train them up in the way that they should go. This is a big, challenging topic. What's your guys' thoughts on? When should a teenager be allowed to date? Maybe a kid? When should kids be allowed to date? How are you guys tackling this with your own kids? What are the conversations you're having at home?
Speaker 3:You want to go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think, just to kick off the conversation, it starts for me with and this may not surprise people that know our voice and what we like to talk about but it starts with the connection. Conversation is we have to work on the connection, the connection first. So when these conversations happen, when they go experiment or they try things or they they feel connected enough to us to actually bring it home and have conversations like jay's describing you do that, that I'm connected enough to you, that I, I will bring things to you. I think that that's the thing that I'm sad about. I I didn't have with my parents, probably because they just didn't know, I think, but I was experimenting with no one to actually talk to. Yeah, so I would just bottle this stuff up until a youth pastor would say hey, ben, how you doing? I'm like I don't know, but I didn't have parents that just knew how to pull that stuff out of me and so practicing that deep connection as early as possible. So we're set up for these moments when they show up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I don't think I've. I've never been a hard sickler, for they have to be 13 years old before they can date. They have to be this age before they can get a cell phone. I don't like any of those because I the reality is that every child you have is completely different than the last one, it's true. So to put them in a cookie cutter shape which is almost a, I could say dating goodbye guy, is like this is the catch all for everybody. I don't like that.
Speaker 3:I think it has to be the flow between the relationship that you have with your kid and and really the relationship that they have with you and the Lord, and how they're navigating things, cause one kid can struggle with, um, the fear of man way bigger than the other kid, and one kid can be a big people pleaser, more than the other kid, and so if they have somebody pursuing them, they're going to, you know, conform to being whatever this person wants, where, if you've got this, other kids like I could care less what everybody thinks. I'm not so worried about that, but I'm worried about other things. So I don't love saying a hard age. I'm looking for maturity, I'm looking for my connection with you and I'm asking different questions, but we have lots of like.
Speaker 3:I think, lincoln, we have a really good friend of us, ours the Ganyos, you guys would know them. Lincoln married Evie, I think, lincoln, we have a really good friend of us, our Sagano's, you guys would know them. Lincoln married Evie, I think, every weekend when they were little kids, because they had sisters and Lincoln was the only boy. So he got married to Evie forever, every time we were together and it was hilarious. He got married as Hulk and the Stormtrooper. He got married in like a suit and tie, and so andincoln is like this loyal, young little boy still still.
Speaker 3:He's still exactly the same way. He's a lot like ben and um, but here he is at like. When we moved down here he was 10 and he found out that evie didn't like him anymore and he's like I, I'm getting a divorce, and it was just kind of a funny conversation because in his mind they were married and so it was just. It opened up a like. This was all pretend. I know that in your heart you feel like this, but we actually we love them because they're our closest friends and they're like family and so I love that you love her so much. But it's not the love that is in marriage, it's the love that's in family. And you know, it's just interesting because I think sometimes we're afraid when you know kids kiss, or you know in the school ground, you know the playground, they get you know, oh my gosh, they kissed a boy.
Speaker 3:We had to go through that with Delaney when she was like I don't know. I think she was in first grade and I think my parents were more upset about it than us. But I just think as long as we're having conversations around this, it becomes less scary, and that's what I mean. We talk a lot with parents and if you never talk about sex, it's going to be the scariest thing you could ever talk about to your kids. So same with dating. If you never talk about it, if you never talk about how that feel to have that boy text you, what did you feel? There's, there's some butterflies in there. I mean, adeline just got a text recently and it just was funny to watch her try and act like she didn't care. You definitely care and I love that you care because you're 15. You should care. It's fun, so. And then we have to navigate. That doesn't mean that we text them constantly. That doesn't mean that we talked to him at two in the morning, that you know. But we're having these conversations because we're not afraid of it.
Speaker 2:That's so good, I agree. I think each kid is so different and it would be wild to think just like in almost any area of life, it'd be wild to think that there was just a cookie cutter format that you could use in your approach to parenting a kid through dating. One of the things, though, that I think has been helpful for Jay and I and I mean for our own selves and then also in walking our older kids through their kind of dating phases of life has been kind of defining like you said, talking about it, actually defining the things Like, when we say dating, what do we even mean and what is the point of dating, and is dating the same thing as love, and how do you know if you you know so you want to talk about that a little bit, babe just how we've kind of brought some definition and some clarity to those questions kind of brought some definition and some clarity to those questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think preparing your kids in the very beginning is really the key, right? So these are the emotions that you're going to feel and this is what it does to you. And going back to, I mean, my dad I don't know how he did such a good job, but he did such a good job in preparing me for what I was going to feel. You're going to feel like she's the only thing that matters. You're going to feel really excited.
Speaker 2:It's actually really helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's normal and that's amazing. But let's talk about how to make decisions inside of these feelings and I think, for our kids we talked a lot about the purpose of dating is to get to know somebody, and the purpose of dating is is to find out if you can have fun with them and then find out if there's somebody that's interesting, find out if, right, you're just climbing that ladder. We have a dating ladder that we talked about but also, I think, helping to set the expectation for our kids in the very beginning, when you're 13, 14, 15 years old, dating is awesome because you can build this, this relationship with the opposite sex, in a way that feels special, but you're not going to be able to make a decision if you want to marry somebody at that age. And I think, really laying it out there and going the, you change so much from 18 years old to 24. And these are the type of decisions before you marry someone, that, before you even say that you want to marry someone, that that you have to be able to make Right. And so I think, having those kinds of conversations around, hey, when you're 12, 13, 14, 15, this is what dating's for, it's it's to um, it's to to have a good time. It's good to know somebody, it's to to find out, you know the areas that that you really enjoy together and you may date someone for a long time and marry them.
Speaker 1:Or you may date someone for a long time and, but I think with our kids you know, setting that expectation of like, I don't want you to date somebody at 12, 13, 14, 15 for the purpose of marrying them. Actually, because you're not going to be able to make that decision. And if you do make that, if you are making that decision at that age, the chances that you make a really great decision is going to be very slim because you're not able to see them do hard things. You haven't seen their work ethic. You haven't seen how they navigate their adult life but then also where their desires lead them as they're starting to mature as as a human. So I think for me it's it's more important to set up the expectation around why and then how to pick a really great mate, as opposed to just just don't date. But I'd love to hear your guys thoughts on that as well mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that's a great way to say it. I'm going to steal some of that for sure. But thinking about Lincoln right now, I mean all our kids would dance with that thing a little bit in different ways. But Lincoln recently, when he broke up with Evie, like Brittany was saying, and then this different girl in between, this new girl, is like she's really pretty, she's really fun, I like her. And he's trying to figure this thing out. I'm like dude, tell me some more about it. This is awesome. And then he says I think I'm going to text her and ask her if she likes anyone. And he's he's trying to figure out how to. How do I find out if she feels the same way I feel, and it's still pretty fresh and and so kind of walking this thing out a little bit, I said you know I wouldn't text her just yet, I would just stay friends and let and and let's just kind of walk this thing out a little bit.
Speaker 4:He's he was 11 at the time, almost 12, but he's just got this thing that's coming coming out. I'm like that's, that's not bad, which I, I think, is what you're saying a little bit is so often, especially in Christian circles, you shouldn't be feeling that Because I read somewhere in the Bible, I think that it's bad to feel those things.
Speaker 4:No it's not in there. I think the other piece is with Delaney. We we navigated lots of young men. She's 19 now. She's actually in a pretty, pretty serious relationship. It's going really well. We like him a lot. He's doing a great job so is she, they've stayed really connected to us, um, but prior to this dude, uh she, she was learning lots the hard way and one of the things I think about is there's this one young man that came along and they, they started.
Speaker 4:It started emotional and just talking, and then it started to get physical, and it was that point that I realized I'm starting to feel scared and I think she's not sure how to say no, she's not sure how to stop it, because she wants to keep him happy and stay connected to him and it feels good. And so I actually took this young man out for coffee and I was, you know, I wasn't necessarily scary, but I was honest which probably was scary I'm sure he looked.
Speaker 4:He looked terrified or in starbucks and bargain, um, but just the the. The other piece of this conversation feels like it's also my job to protect my kids.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:And so I want you to feel all this stuff. I want you to experience the emotion and practice dating in my house. I'm also going to be the one that closes the gate to my garden when it's my job to protect it.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's just talk about that really quick, because I agree 100% on that. How, okay, let's just talk about really quick, because I agree 100 on that. Um, especially, especially when they're young and they're they're often unable to make that that big decision, because I don't think our kids know what's best for them all the time. I think they know what they like best but they don't know what's ultimately going to work out for the best.
Speaker 1:How did that go when, when your was, was Delaney like, in agreement, hey, help me out here. Or did you have some pushback like, um, I, I really want this relationship and you're going like, hey, I think we're all done here. Well, how did that play out?
Speaker 4:yeah, it was, and and feel free to help me with some memories here, but it was it, it was mixed, it was a little mixed and that she, she knew she was starting to cross some lines.
Speaker 4:But, she didn't know what to do. So she was like I like this and I said I think I'm going to take him out for coffee and just have a chat with him. She's like, oh yeah, okay, all right. And he actually didn't show up again. He went away Because I think he realized I'm not willing to fight through that guy being me. I'm not willing to fight through the uncomfortable feeling of protecting Delaney's parents.
Speaker 3:Which then ultimately shows her this guy wasn't ever going to be able to protect you. Yeah, totally, and that's what I think you know. She was, I think, in seventh grade when that happened and you know she had a really hard season, um, with another young man and and she kind of walked away from the Lord in that season. But when she came back to the Lord and she recommitted her life and she was on fire doing great, there was another young man that came in and he, um, he was we say we always say he looks so good on paper, like he looks so good, he looks so good.
Speaker 3:And the hard part about today's world that our kids are navigating is everything is through a screen, like everything is through a screen so they might have interactions at school but so much of the conversation does happen through a screen and it's like this, uh, a buffer to, I'm going to tell you way more than I would ever tell you in person, and so we've had to help navigate. Like, if you can't say this to their face, looking in their eyes, then do not say it through this text, because you don't actually know that they can handle this. You don't actually know they're emotionally capable, or if they're just, you know, I don't. It's amazing to me like we didn't have that going, did not have that. We had to say it to your face. I had to walk up to you, I had to pass a note.
Speaker 4:I had to fly across the world.
Speaker 3:Totally. It's just a different world. We've almost diluted the risk and courage of is this really what I want to commit to because of this screen? So with Delaney, with this young man, he looks so good on paper and they had a lot of phone calls and so they, they, they eliminated some of the screen, which I was grateful for.
Speaker 3:But she found herself in a similar situation where she's like I don't think I'm being treated the way that I want to be treated, pursued, and I'm. I'm now starting to feel guilty about things that I shouldn't feel guilty about, like, and it just was a bummer. But again, ben went in and said here's the requirement, young man, and there was all sorts of pushback on him. But because she was in a healthier spot and a bit older, she was like thank you, and that's the goal that I mean you have as dad to our girls for sure is, you're the example of I'm the protector, until that day she gets married and she ends up with someone else. You are the example of who the protector is for her and that standard.
Speaker 3:And so at that season she was really grateful for it because she could see it and was like oh, this is what I didn't understand when I was like 1112. And here she is 17. And so at that season she was really grateful for it because she could see it and was like, oh, this is what I didn't understand when I was like 11, 12. And here she is 17 and going. Thank you, I didn't, I needed that, and that's, and so fast forward of this newest relationship, very different it's. He's doing a great job, he's pushing through, he's pursuing, he's not afraid of us. You know all these things, but it's just I think the screen has removed so much of, I don't know, that courage that we had to find.
Speaker 3:If I really want to, have this relationship for our kids, and I think that we. I read the book Strong Fathers, strong Daughters. You've read that I did. Strong Mothers, strong S sons, by Dr Meg Meeker, and she talks a lot about the willingness to fight for your kid when they need you, to fight in a place that they don't know that they need it, and that's been the place that we go back to every time in those moments is I don't care how much I piss you off, I am ultimately the one protecting you until you're 18. You decide you don't want me anymore and you go out and do whatever.
Speaker 4:But that's not my biggest takeaway, just real quick on that, the other book by Meg Meeker, which is the strong father, strong daughters. I was singing an eighth grade dance with Delaney and she's with this boy and I'm I I'm a chaperone but I'm off at the moment, so I'm reading this book in the bleachers watching my daughter dance with this boy, thinking what weapon can I throw at him?
Speaker 1:so he goes away that's hard.
Speaker 4:So my friend sit next to me and he goes down and and he, he danced his daughter and came set back next to me and he goes ben, go dance with delaney. I said she doesn't want to dance with me in this season. We were so disconnected and she was having a hard time. I said she doesn't want to dance with me. He goes. It's not what I said. I didn't say, does she? I said go dance with your daughter. And I'm reading this book right now. That's essentially she's describing this relationship between fathers and daughters. That when she says, dad, I don't want you, I don't want you around, it's her challenge, the devil, you fight for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so I'm reading this and he's challenging me. I'm like, stop it, leave me alone, wow. So I get up and I went down to her. I said Lenny, can I dance with you? This is an eighth grade dance. This is like I mean wild, uh, social suicide, almost like oh, your friends got a lot for you. But uh, she says no. So I came back, I said, told you, so he goes, go ask her again. So I get back down there and she's like okay. But this moment took place in my heart as a dad that I, I, this, this thing was cemented and solidified, that I'm gonna fight for my girls no matter what and I think that's.
Speaker 4:That's the piece we have to move through this dating conversation with. Is that that my, my role doesn't change? Yeah, as you navigate this wild sea of dating. That's good.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that the challenge as parents is always. We want to be friends with our kids, and the this deep desire to please our kids is always there. But my first role and responsibility is to love them, not to be friends with them. And love looks like so many things, and so I just think it's. It is so essential that we first again create this expectation, as they're growing up, that my first role is to parent you in the way that you should go, not in the way that you want to go, and so we're going to have some conflict.
Speaker 1:There's going to be times when you don't enjoy that, and I just I remember with my daughter having conversations with her where she was with a couple of guys that I didn't really like, I didn't really trust, and I had to tell her hey, you either have a conversation with him or I'm going to. So I remember having that conversation, I'm so happy to sit this boy down and talk to him and and I can do that and it's great, or you can do that, and so that's to me like how I empowered her to like I, because I don't feel safe and I don't do not feeling safe with you. I remember telling her that I've spent 16 years of my life pouring myself into you. I'm not going to let someone come in because he's cute and you know the last six months of your life and and not feel comfortable with the way this relationship's going. I'm not going to do that. So you can be mad at me, you can hate me for that, but it's just my job and I love you so much.
Speaker 1:So that was, I think that have being willing, like if a parent isn't willing to have that conversation, then you need to. You probably need to not have your kids date. You know the flip side of that is, if you can't have that conversation, then you're going to have a ton of conflict in your relationship. It's, it's going to be. You're ultimately going to have a ton of conflict in your relationship. It's, it's going to be.
Speaker 1:You're ultimately going to have a war because, you have to have these kinds of conflicts in order to create a healthy ecosystem, and that those but those are hard conversations.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we've run up so many times in parenting on the issue of wow, I'm actually afraid of disconnection with my kid. I'm afraid of disconnection and that is causing me a lot of trouble in the area of figuring out how to make a decision right now, because I know that I shouldn't be more afraid of disconnection than I am about, you know, doing the right thing. But if we're honest as parents, disconnection with our kids, especially with their when they're teenagers, is not fun. It's a scary. It's a scary experience to feel your kids try to separate from you because they don't like what you're either doing or how you're, you know, holding a line, or or just plain, simply because they don't want to be around. Like disconnection in general with kids is really hard. So I remember having a lot of conversations with Jay as our older kids were growing up like, okay, we have to discipline this, whether or not disconnection happens On their end. We're not in control of whether they let go of connection.
Speaker 2:That doesn't mean that we don't do the right thing, and I think what I've learned, and probably the confidence that the Lord has given us over the years, has been when we in love toe the line, even if our kids in the moment choose disconnection, it always works out for the best because even if they choose to disconnect in the moment, they actually want to be loved and cared for and protected, even if they don't like what it means for them in the immediate.
Speaker 2:And it's the same thing of other areas, other challenging areas of parenting. It's like when my kids are adults they look back with a lot of gratitude about the fact that actually my parents loved me so much that they were willing to set really hard boundaries, even when I was a total butthead to them. In return. It's the same thing as little kids who might fight the boundary, but actually they only feel safe if there's a boundary there. And so I think that's where we get to practice wisdom and even just trusting the leadership of the Lord to help us discern where these boundary lines should be drawn and when to stick really hard to them. Whether or not our kids buck against the boundary. Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of the things that oh go ahead Brittany.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say your point of being afraid of disconnection, you know, and how much it moves our hearts towards the right thing or the wrong thing, and we kind of are in this panic space. And I remember when Delaney was dating this young man who looked great and I could see that she was disappearing, like who. Her shine was Demi and she's conforming to this, the demands of this relationship, and I'm thinking we just came out of this really hard season and so all I wanted to do was to go in there, throw her phone away, get rid of the computer. I'm like you're never talking to this boy again because clearly he's going to make things worse for you. Because you know, it was just, it was just scary. It was just scary because I she finally found herself again after this hard season and I wanted so badly to protect that for her and I could feel my fear of disconnection leading me to making a really poor decision. And so I took a walk and I was gone for like an hour and a half sobbing in my neighborhood listening to worship music. I was yelling in the neighborhood, I looked crazy. I had to get off of the main road because I'm like I probably look like I've lost my mind. So I was angry. I was angry that we fought so hard for where she is now and I'm so scared. I'm so scared that we're going to lose her again. And so my ability to go and run to the Lord and say she's yours, she's yours first, she's mine second, she's yours first, she's mine second Okay, what do we do? Because I'm the front lines, you're with with me, but I've got to go have this conversation with her. I need help.
Speaker 3:And I think that was the part where I had to make sure that I wasn't going by my own agenda to make myself feel good, to not have that disconnect. And I think that's the other part with dating, because it's so scary. It's like what are all the mistakes you can make? All of them, all the mistakes can happen right here. Your life could be altered forever, right? That's what I'm afraid of. That's my ultimate fear. Can I work myself back and trust God? Okay, now let's parent out of that place rather than out of my own fear.
Speaker 3:And so that's the. I just remember that moment of being afraid of disconnection and I was going to blow it all up and lose any form of influence I had because of my fear and I think that's what I encourage parents is that if you don't know what to say, if you don't know what to do, take a minute, because you're going to make things way worse by trying to navigate it right. Then and there you need your own no fun chair. You need to go and figure it out somewhere else, go find Jesus and then bring that back to the conversation. Otherwise you just make a bunch of damage to this relationship and dating because I'm afraid so that's just what I remember doing.
Speaker 2:That's great yeah.
Speaker 1:That's so great.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Some of the biggest mistakes I've made with our kids has been because I've let my fear take control and parented out of fear. Or I think the other part is like if Lauren's really afraid, then I come in to like-.
Speaker 2:Protect me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which, that's just. It never works out well.
Speaker 1:Yeah which, that's just. It never works out well. Yeah, um, I think, as we're moving forward, it's one of the things that's really challenging for kids to understand is the difference between love and passion, and in I just um, I was listening to one of my kids the other day talk about his girlfriend, and he's talking about his girlfriend in the sense of like I really love her, and I just kept having to stop him and go like hold on, let's talk through, because English doesn't have enough. There's not enough in between, and what I don't want to confuse him with I remember having this conversation with Riley is okay, there's a difference between the love that you're saying, that you have for this guy and the love that mom and I have. Is that true? And she's like, yeah, and I'm like, okay, because for mom, like I lay everything down right, like I don't spend all my money, she spends most of it.
Speaker 1:I you know like I'm starting to go through these differences, like these funny differences, to help her understand like oh yeah, I think that's true. So I would have to say, like what you're really saying, is you really like him a lot, is that?
Speaker 2:true, yeah, and you don't want to lose him.
Speaker 1:Because I think those differences are really important, because kids my kids want it. All they want to do is grow up. They want to grow up faster and they want it to be adults.
Speaker 2:They want it to be a kid thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's even my two-year-old. Right now he wants a big fork and he wants big eggs and he wants big pancakes every day.
Speaker 4:I know I want a big one.
Speaker 1:And if you give him a small fork. He wants a big one. But I think it's really important as parents that we start to help our kids make those different distinctions between the type of love that we have and the type of the type of love that we have and the type of relationships that they're building. Because if we don't help them make those distinctions, then they're looking at relationships, they're thinking that they're building what we have, instead of realizing, recognizing that the feeling that you get there's going to be a lot of men or women in our little kids' lives that they feel passionate about.
Speaker 1:You can have a lot of, you can love a lot of people. Just because you love them doesn't mean that they're good for you. I remember having that conversation with our kids is you're going to love a lot of people. There's going to be a lot of people that you feel passionate about. There's going to be a lot of people, but that's only one quality, that's one aspect of the relationship that you have to have if you're going to marry them. But that's not the whole piece. And so have you guys had that conversation with your kids? How have you kind of wrapped that up with them and help them to distinguish between you know love and like chemistry chemistry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I I use the word maturity maybe because I think I, ben and I met when we were 14 and 15 and pretty much dated in. Weaverville right. And then we didn't date and then we dated at 16 and then we got married at 18. So we are that rare, get married really young. You say that we don't know. At 14 my mom actually called it. She said I think britain's gonna marry ben at 14.
Speaker 3:So we're this weird little bubble that our kids are like yeah but you guys, I'm like it's less about age, it it's more about maturity, like can I give my life to this person? And it's not that daddy and I were. You know, we at 18, we looked a little bit different than our other 18 year old friends because we had a different row of maturity, that we were fostering our work ethic, what we were giving our lives to like, the things that we were maturing and developing in ourselves look different than most of our friends. So I think we use the term is yes, you're going to like lots of girls, and we use the term like passion is a great word, I like that.
Speaker 3:So we got two more to go, so we'll steal that one. But I especially with Delaney, who's more in the I'm in love stage and want to get married we're asking the questions like OK, so what does maturity look like, what does health look like, what does community look like? Because these are all the components that dad and I have that make us successful. Right now you have the two of you, and the two of you are so much fun. The two of you are also great, but you haven't run into what requires that deep, covenant love. Where's the rub? Where that's going to show up? And so I think that's the place that we're usually challenging the maturity level, the health level, the growth level who's?
Speaker 3:in your life. Those are the things that we've been pushing on. I would say have worded it slightly different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really good is what.
Speaker 4:That's what I mean, yeah yeah, I, if anyone's ever seen danny silk's uh concentric circles in keep your love on. It feels kind of like that as well when talking about dating. If the center circles marriage, it feels like there's these, these, these boundary lines moving towards maturity and real love. You know, and it feels kind of like that's that's part of the conversation we're having. Jay just said it cleaner and quicker, but it's it's that piece right there that there's certain things we'll do and say out here that will adjust a little bit as we move closer to the middle.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so even defining those things like I probably wouldn't say I love you way out here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Hey, I really enjoy being around you. I think I like you a lot. I'm going to hold your hand at this next rung in. We may even kiss over here, but it's help helping understand, like that. That's kind of the journey we've gone on a little bit when when Brittany described maturity I think that's what we're doing is, what are you protecting?
Speaker 1:Do you?
Speaker 4:know what you're protecting Cause. If not, you'll just run through all those lines.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so good. I think that the more that we can help our kids define and understand their feelings and their experiences, the better, because even just what you were saying, ben, it just reminds me so much like back to the beginning of our conversation. I had amazing parents who had my best interest at heart all the time, but we didn't have a lot of these conversations, and so when I found myself in my first dating relationship at 15, I was really guessing and I was really letting him lead. I was letting a hormonal 15 year old boy lead my life because he had been a Christian longer and he knew what it was to be friends with Jesus, and so I just decided, well, I trust him, you know, and little did I know. He didn't quite understand all that we needed to understand as far as, like, how to be safe and healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I think, ultimately, I think this is what we want to tell our kids, like God made you on purpose to be a man or a woman and to be attracted to the opposite sex, and so that you're experiencing whenever that happens at 10, 11, 12 years old. When that happens, you are right on time. You're right on time because it's how God made you and this is normal. And here's what you're feeling. Let me tell you how you're feeling. Let me tell you what it is that you're feeling and what that, and let me help you define that so that you're not in this wondering as a young child you're not 15 years old wondering or being confused by the difference between love and chemistry. Like the best thing we could ever do, probably, is to tell our, our young teenagers, like, oh, that feeling you're having super fun, super not special, like that means nothing. Do you know what I mean? Like you could feel that for any boy that walks down the road let's talk about, like what makes a relationship special or worth considering for covenant, helping them fill those gaps.
Speaker 2:In Cause what we know as parents is that when we don't come with the answer or the definition, that law of first mention, they're looking for answers. Kids do not like ambiguity. They're looking to fill in the gaps. And if we don't offer conversation, definition, not that we're the know-it-alls by any stretch, but in the areas where we can bring definition and we can bring clarity for them, let's do that, because they're going to look to fill in those gaps without us if we don't.
Speaker 2:So what I love about what you guys are doing is that with your teenagers you're in the season of life, unafraid of the big, hard conversations, because you're able to draw on the well of connection you have with them and you're pressing into the hard conversations and I think, if anything, that could be our takeaway and for our listeners, that's the takeaway. Invest so much in your connection and don't shy away from having the conversation, because ultimately that's what you'll pull from when you get to these hard spots. And I think dating like we've all kind of said, I think dating is it's less about do or don't. It's way more about when your kid has an experience inside of their heart which you can't actually control them out of, what are you going to do and how are you going to help them ultimately make great decisions that honors themselves and honors the Lord and honors the connection that they have with their parents? I think all the things that have been said are gold, so hopefully there's some good takeaways in there for our listeners today. I would say.
Speaker 1:The last thing, too, is that parents should really equip themselves and become super knowledgeable about how to date well, because if you don't, your kids will pick that up really quick and they'll go find someone else that is an expert on dating and there's lots of experts out there that you don't want your kids learning from, and so this is an area where I think I've just been so thankful that Lauren and I have had a lot of experience in teaching this kind of stuff and digging in for ourselves what is healthy, how to set healthy boundaries, you know how to define love and all these different places, because now we can be a strength and a resource, and our kids do come to us because they know that we're going to help. One of my kids just got into a relationship a little bit ago and it was really challenging at first and they came to me and started to go. I think I'm just going to bounce out of this relationship. I said wait, hold on, where are you at? I actually was helping.
Speaker 1:I actually, um, was helping them to stay in the relationship. Actually, what you're feeling? You're feeling this way because you're letting them lead. You're feeling this way because you haven't done a great job at defining the expectations you're doing, and then they were able to like really slow down and enjoy it a lot, and so I just really encourage parents like the more powerful you feel, the less afraid you are, and the more powerful you feel in this area, to teach your kids in any area, the better experience they're going to have and the better experience you are going to have. And so, guys, thank you so much for coming on here.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just being willing to jump in, and I'd really encourage people to go check out what you guys are doing in in the loving on purpose community. It's amazing. I spent quite a bit of time in my life over there and seeing what you guys are doing, so thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 3:Thanks guys, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:All right, everyone. Hopefully you are enjoying this Parenting the Hard Stuff little series that we have going. Please leave us comments. Go ahead and rate and review our podcast. It helps so much. If you have a question that we haven't covered, go ahead and let us know. We like to answer your questions, but otherwise have an incredible week. We will see you next week.