113. Invisible to Influential: How to Build Credibility and Stay Relevant with Kathryn Sandford

In this inspiring conversation, I sit down with Kathryn Sandford, seasoned personal brand and leadership coach, to explore what it truly means to go from invisible to influential. Kathryn draws on her rich background in teaching, recruitment, and government to show professionals—especially introverts and quiet achievers—how to find their voice, build credibility, and shine without being loud.

We talk about the power of energy in communication, why self-trust and self-kindness are the foundations of influence, and how relevance is a muscle we can train at every stage of our careers. Kathryn also shares practical networking tips, storytelling strategies that help you stand out, and the affirmation she lives by: “I am enough.”

If you’ve ever wondered how to navigate career pivots, project confidence without people-pleasing, or become visible in a noisy world while staying true to yourself, this episode will encourage you to take that courageous next step.

Episode Highlights

• Kathryn’s introvert–extrovert balance and reframing the idea of a “social butterfly.”
• Lessons from teaching: energy awareness, clear boundaries, and credibility in communication.
• The turning point that led Kathryn out of teaching and into leadership coaching.
• How to pivot careers with courage and strategy, especially later in life.
• Building a personal brand through self-awareness, storytelling, and reputation.
• Why asking others to describe you in three words can unlock your strengths.
• The “relevance muscle” and how to strengthen it for future success.
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Key Takeaways

• Energy speaks louder than words — how you show up is as important as what you say.
• Boundaries build trust — being clear and consistent creates credibility and influence.
• Self-trust is the foundation of leadership — start by believing I am enough.
• Personal brand = reputation + influence + impact — know your story and tell it well.
• Relevance is a muscle — it needs ongoing practice, upskilling, and self-reflection.
• Networking made simple — approach one or three people, never two.
• Storytelling sets you apart — ordinary stories, told with authenticity, make you memorable.
  
  
  

Memorable Quotable

“The most powerful thing you can say to yourself is: I am enough.” — Kathryn Sandford

Resources & Links

• Connect with Kathryn Sandford on LinkedIn.
• Learn  about Kathryn Sandford’s programs: Invisible to Influential and 1:1 Leadership Coaching.
• Follow Serena on LinkedIn. 
• Visit serenalow.com.au for the first step to ending your visibility struggle.
• Enjoyed this episode?
  Subscribe to The Quiet Warrior Podcast and leave a 5-star review—it helps us reach even more introverts and quiet achievers who are ready to step into visibility with confidence.

This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello and welcome. Today's guest on the Quiet Warrior podcast is Catherine Sanford. Catherine is a seasoned personal brand and leadership coach dedicated to helping professionals unlock their potential, amplify their influence, and make a lasting impact in their careers. With a background in recruitment and personal leadership, Catherine has a deep understanding of what it takes to stand out in today's competitive world. Through her coaching programs, Catherine has empowered countless individuals to transition from feeling invisible to becoming confident, credible leaders who attract the opportunities they deserve. She specializes in guiding professionals to rediscover their unique value, articulate their story, and build a personal brand that positions them for success. Welcome, Catherine, to the Quiet Warrior Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Oh, thank you very much, Serena. That's a wonderful uh introduction. Thank you very much. I'm very excited to be here.

Introvert–Extrovert Nuance And Social Energy

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Me too. Now, tell me, where do you sit on the introversion, extroversion spectrum?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Ah, an extrovert with an intro introvert bending. So I'm not too sure where that is on the spectrum. Um, I enjoy my being, I I like quite like being alone. I quite like my own time. Uh that has grown over time as I've got older. Uh, I think that I did have it when I was younger, but you know, the extrovert of me, the socialization, when I think of 16, 18, 20 at university, it was all about the energy of being with my peers. And um but as I've got uh older and more reflective, I've realized that that introvert side of me where my own space, uh, walking alone, thinking, which is and been quite um refilling my energy by myself rather than going out and seeking. Not that I still need it, but I just understand and appreciate that more. So I, in regard to your question, I don't know where that sits. It's kind of swings and roundabouts.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

I think that's quite natural, and I think that describes the experience of a lot of people I've spoken with as well, that our tendencies can change over time, and especially as we get older, we crave the simplicity, the solitude a lot more.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

And I wonder if you've ever been called a social butterfly.

Rethinking The Social Butterfly

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Uh, yes. Always. I I have no problem talking to anybody. Uh, and that comes from my teaching background and being used to standing up and talking to people and reading people really well, because I think when you're walk working with children, you learn how to read where they how they feel and how they present. So that's never a but I like the word social butterfly because I think social butterfly is not about being loud, for me, it's about connecting, it's about being really interested in that person and really wanting to know their story, and so the only way you're gonna get that is by um is by actually offering and showing up for yourself in the sense of introducing yourself, going up to somebody and saying, Hey, um, I really like and having sort of I find LinkedIn is a great connector. You know, talking to people, are you on LinkedIn? Oh my gosh, you know, such and such. So I think that for me, when I've been described, I I actually like it because me, it's about energy, it's about connection, it's about um adding value to someone's life by con how can I serve you, how can I contribute to some so for me it's not the flittiness of a butterfly, it's the actual connection and energy.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

I like your reframe very much, Catherine.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

That is not about the flittiness. Yeah, because people do call me that, but I could easily, you know, I decided I'm an optimistic, optimistic, so I'll reframe it.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

That's brilliant. I can only think of one occasion when I've been called a social butterfly, and I think that was nine years ago at a networking event where all the stars aligned and I had the right energy, and I spoke to the nice people one after the other, and there was no awkwardness. And that was nine years ago.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

And you still remember it though, and you could still do it again.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

I do remember it. I I don't know that I aspire to do it again. It's it's a bit too much pressure.

Practical Networking Tactics That Ease Nerves

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Ah yes. Yeah, I it I get that because you do, even me, I do have to take a deep breath. Um, because when you it the you know, but there's always little techniques that I've learned and picked up along the way. So, you know, you never approach two people, you always approach three. Because when you approach two, they're having a conversation and you're interrupting it. But when you approach three, there's always one that will turn or acknowledge you. So that's that's a very I learned that years ago, and I thought, oh, that's a great one. Or you can go to one person and you know introduce yourself. So if you see some, and I think that's really important because they're feeling what you're feeling, so it's just that connection piece again. But that, you know, never approach two people in a room when you're having to, you know, network as such, um, which is a really good technique that's saved me heaps of times, it given me courage.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

That is so good, so good. I hope people are paying attention and taking notes. Never talk to just two people, it's either one or three. I personally enjoy talking to just the one person because I know they are just as nervous as I am. Yes. And they're probably hoping someone will come up and say hello. So that makes me feel like the very brave one, you know, when I go up there and talk.

Teaching Years Across Tough Schools

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

So tell me about your teaching career. You mentioned that you were a teacher before. How long were you a teacher?

SPEAKER_01 6:21

I was a teacher probably for around 10 to 12 years, and I uh did a teaching degree at university, and then I moved into uh various roles, teaching roles. Um at the time I was what they call a relief teacher. Um, it was difficult to get jobs at the time, um, and so we went relief. So I've tried a number of schools uh in South Auckland, which is kind of the the tough area of Auckland. Uh I really enjoyed it. It was just, it was fun. I learned a lot. And then I met overseas. I taught in East London, which was another area that was a bit tough, but loved that. And then came back to New Zealand and taught in rural schools. I taught went back to South Auckland and then I went back into back to Wellington. So and taught in a Catholic girls' school, which is where um after that I left and then went in, left teaching, and then went into uh working in government. Yeah. So that's my journey as a teacher. One, I loved it. I loved teaching. Um, not so great on the administration.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I think we hear that from a lot of educators. What did you learn from your teaching experiences about communication?

Influence, Trust, And Credibility In Communication

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Um, I learned and really understood the importance of energy. Uh yeah, when people show up energetically, you will feel it. And I think that a lot of uh people really don't understand. For example, when a child walks into the classroom, you can just tell them look by looking at them and just feeling their energy that they haven't had dinner or something's up, something's not quite right. They look sullen, but there's certain aspects that you can feel that you think, oh no, that's something's wrong with John, something's wrong with Emily. Um and I think that you need to give them that space, and that's what I learned is really to be really tuned in to the energy that that person shows up and not to make a judgment um as to what you perceive is wrong because they've got a history of being a naughty person. I don't know their story. Well, I do with kids, you kind of knew their story, but I don't know that's I don't know their story that morning, and I don't know what's happened. Um, for me, if they've turned up, I think that's a fabulous thing. And my job now is to bring them into that environment where they are safe and able to learn. Uh, and I think that that to me was one of the biggest. And the other, there's another lesson is, and I remember this when I first started, a piece of advice I got was always to show up. Um children smell vulnerability or weakness. They smell what you're when you're vulnerable personally in a victim vulnerability, they will smell it. If you don't believe and are they don't they don't they just smell it, they know when you're telling them off or when you're giving them setting boundaries, they know how far they can push you. And when you aren't clear in yourself, when you deliver those boundaries um and set clear expectations, they will take you for a ride. They'll just and so I was always very clear that I had a set, a methodology that um was very clear and I didn't budge from it. So they were given three chances. On the third chance, I said, You've made this choice, I'm not engaging in this you're either, whatever the punishment, whatever the consequence was, out. Don't even argue. And they knew. They knew. I sometimes I didn't even have to say it. I'd go, I I've got a detention. I said, I'm not even going there, go. And so I think those were the things I think about yeah, energy and also just being gr really clear that when you communicate a message around what your expectation is, you have to deliver and be very clear about how that is and how it will work.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

I think those two points you just raised, Catherine, are extremely important for anyone who wants to communicate well, and especially with a vulnerability point. I'm thinking of animals, they sense the same thing too, isn't it? If we approach them with fear, you know, they're not going to listen to us quite as easily as if we give them a very firm instruction. And same goes in parenting.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah, same, the same. Otherwise, you'll be taken for a ride.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

So you said self-awareness and being and being full of conviction inside, which means we need to know what is it we want to enforce, what's the purpose of it, where the boundaries are, and what the consequences are, which means that if somebody is chronically a people-pleasing type, they might have difficulty, whether it's teaching, whether it's leadership, whether it's any kind of communication, because they would always be questioning themselves a little bit, which makes them shaky in the energy that they project.

Self-Trust, Self-Compassion, And “I’m Enough”

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yes, very shaky. I think that the people-pleasing aspect is a belief that yeah comes across from a feeling perspective that people don't believe them. They just know. So when they stand and say, well, this what's it's all around influence, Arena. It's around how you want to show up and influence the outcome. And I think you have to be very clear about how you project that message or share that message and the expectations around it. Because around um boundaries or expectations, it sits energy. And if you're over-delivering, trying to please, the energy will go down. Because people just won't believe it. And I think that that part of building your influence sits around trust and credibility. And it's not what you say, it's how you say it. That people really and how you make them feel, which is that famous Maya Angelo quote, you know, people will forget what you said, people will forgot forget what you did, but they won't forget how you made them feel. And that is to me is the key.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

So trust and credibility, those feel like outward things. Building trust with other people, building credibility in the perspective of someone else. How do you establish trust first and foremost with yourself so that you can project that and convey that?

The Pivot From Teaching And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_01 13:32

That's a that's that's a really good question. And it comes down to understanding self, uh, the self-awareness, uh, and being um realistic that who you are is just who you are, and believing that that is enough. I think there's often an affirmation that I am actually I'm enough. I'm I'm just doing the best I can, and I am enough. And sometimes I may make mistakes, sometimes I may stuff up, but that's okay because I know and I'm aware of that, and so I'm constantly trying to continuously learn more about how I can show up as my true, genuine self. And so I think the more this accountability that we have to ourselves builds that credibility and belief in ourselves, and so that is the step towards us showing up as credible because we believe what we're saying and how we're saying it and what we want to influence or um communicate, we truly believe in our own self-truth, that that is how we're showing up, if that makes sense. So I think that that's the self-awareness and and the compassion that we have for ourselves, kindness to ourselves. My mother used to say, Catherine, if you're happy, everyone around you will be happy because it's contagious.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Your mother is very wise indeed.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yes. So I think that that's the essence of uh building trust in yourself, is being accountable to you. And the trusting in the sense of I am enough is for me, uh is hugely powerful.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yes. And I think that that saying that affirmation, I'm enough, is just three simple words, but they can be so powerful if we actually internalize them. Because I think a lot of us sometimes question ourselves, you know, am I really enough? Can I really say that? Can I say it that way? Can I say it to that person? And in all these ways, we sort of chip away at our own self-belief. Because every time we we're not very sure, it takes down that energy just a little bit and a little bit. And then what we present is not a hundred percent of our full conviction. Now it's like, oh, maybe minus 10%, so a little bit wobbly. And sometimes people do pick that up, and sometimes there are people that might take advantage of that as well. So I think what you've said is really important that self-awareness, self-kindness, self-compassion, and being accountable to ourselves and just checking in and reminding ourselves, I'm enough, I'm enough, I'm enough.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah, yeah, pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Let's talk about how you pivoted away from teaching.

Strategy, Seasons Of Life, And Upskilling

Personal Brand For Introverts: Story And Shine

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Um, there's two aspects to change. One is the pain of change, and the other one is the desire for more. So I had the pain of change, where I had a role as a deputy principal and was very unhappy in it. I took the job because the money was good. And I thought, oh well, it'll get me out of the classroom, but I didn't really spend any real time reflecting on is this what I really want to do? Because when if I'd got, if I had done that, I don't know, maybe I hindsight's a great thing. But the administration aspect of the role was just it just didn't suit me. So I got more and more frustrated. And um there was an incident where I berated another teacher uh because she a minor incident, she took my cup. I was went to the staff room, and she'd taken my cup, which was a even now I think about it, but uh that's the point where I was just so angry, and I stopped myself. I could see the damn what I was doing in the sense of the impact on her, and I just left, walked out and went back into the my office, shut the door, and thought, no, this is not me. This is what I've got to do, something. So I rang up my husband and I said, I I I've just done the worst thing in my life. And he said, Well, you know what to do. I mean, yes, I know, I have to go back and apologise, but I said, I'm not doing this anymore. So he said, resign. I was like, okay, we've just bought a house. He said, but you can go um relieve teaching. You don't, you know, we can get we'll we'll be okay, we'll get the money and we'll be fine. So that's what I did. Yeah, so I went relieved teaching, and then I got pregnant. So I was like, oh, this is all good. So that was the sort of start of me. So when I then decided, look, this is something I need to do, so I went and applied for a role in government as a training coordinator, and um got there and thought, why have I done this? I've gone from a DP where I've run a school to I've kind of repeated the same thing because I was desperate to get a job because I thought I have no value, and they offer and that I can do interviews, so I got the interview and it was part-time. Everything was set up in the sense of the crash was there across the road, it was subsidized, you know, all the tick-tics, but I forgot to look at the road. It's so luckily I had um a couple of friends who had left teaching and were working in the different part of this government agency, and um they came to me and said, What are you doing? I thought, I've got this job. And they said, Well, you don't want to repeat what you happened before, and so they took me over into what they call the social policy agency, and then I started um working in the Māori space in social policy, and then I worked in government and community funding. So that was the sort of steps I took um to move into uh it was always in education, it was always in teaching and learning and that kind of environment. So, yeah, that's how I sort of moved out of the teaching into corporate, and then I had a few more experiences. See, thing is with certain it took me a lot of lessons to learn.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

I think that is quite typical, really. Anytime we're making a change of some kind, and we think there is a timeline for learning, and we think we should learn faster, and we think we really shouldn't be repeating and going full circle again and having to learn something all over again. But sometimes we just do.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yes, we just it just happens, and um yeah, so it took me a while, but hey, it's all come to fruition and it's all done full circle because now I can sit here and go, yeah, I know what this exactly.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Now you speak from lived experience in a way some wisdom. Now I want to go back a little bit to something you said about, you know, whether we should reflect first before we make that leap, and whether if you had reflected then you would have made the same decision. And I'm thinking from past experience and from working with clients, actually we our logical mind tells us, yes, yes, we should think about this properly before we leap. Sometimes the wisdom only comes in hindsight. It's only after you leap and then you figure it out, and then you discover what didn't work or what you should actually be doing, then you sort of find your way to a new kind of equilibrium. I've I've never found it a situation where by reflecting in advance and trying to make the right decision in advance, that then we could have made a better decision. Decision. Does that make sense? It always seems to work the other way around. You connect the dots backwards, as Steve Jobs says.

The Dinosaur Story: Why Stories Get You Hired

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yes, yes. But that that that that's absolutely true. I think you do connect it, and I agree. Um, however, I think that as you get older, as we get older, that our window of opportunity is still there, but it's a little bit more narrower. And I think you have to be a bit more strategic in regard to jumping into something. And what I mean by strategic is not actually thinking about it in a sense, but I know that I'm going to jump into uncertainty. What's happening in the world around me at the moment that I think I need to be upskilling myself or working out, or what are the trends, or what is it, the work I need to do in understanding what I am looking for? Do I have clarity about myself? Do I understand that this journey is going to feel uncertain or a difficult journey? What's the reality of in my world right now? And is that related to because our priorities change each decade? And I speak for that from if I look back in my 50s. My what I wanted and what I want now are two different things because I've got grandchildren. So my focus around priority and how I um stay relevant and working is more around how do I get more access to my child grandchildren, you know? So I'm looking for ways to do that. So I think that that that's the strategy, the strategic aspect. It's upskilling is huge because I work with a lot of people coaching them in their mid, you know, their 50s onwards, looking at what's next. And one of the key things I think that they need to upskill on is digital AI. They, I'm not saying that you become an expert, but you need to understand that you have to embrace part of it into your life. And that's all you need to do. You don't, and one of the other aspects is you know, your visibility. What does relevance mean to you? These kind of questions I think need to be thought out to help you on that journey of pivoting or doing something new.

Ask Others For Three Words: External Mirrors

SPEAKER_00 24:25

I think that's highly relevant given what's been happening in the in the workplace more recently and in the economy in general. What can an introverted person who is considering a career change or contemplating working a different way? What should they be doing now? What you just touched on AI. What should they be doing to be more visible, to build that brand if they've never thought of branding, but now they're realizing the window of opportunity is closing. I need to be more strategic in the way I approach, I you know, not just send out my resume, but I need people to see me and know me and recognize my expertise.

Building The Relevance Muscle Over Decades

Programs, LinkedIn, And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah. I think they there are two aspects to this. The personal brand is how you describe or present yourself to the to the world, and your reputation is what people think about you. So from that is your influence and the impact that you have. And together, when you get all those three ingredients and you work on who you are, that's your personal brand. So I think if you're looking as an introvert, you really have to look at who you are, and who um part of my program is getting into the self-awareness of self and understanding who you are, what's great about you, what is something in a crowded of these, you know, people, and this is what happens in recruitment when you look at the market today and candidates, everyone's gray, and you want to shine. So, and it's not stand out and be loud, but shine in who you are. So, what is it about you where you can sort of present your uniqueness? And it's usually around being able to tell a story about yourself, and it's usually around demonstrating, for example, uh connection. It's we come back to that a bit, you know, even on your about on your LinkedIn, people love stories, and I think that that's one thing if you're working on your brand, looking at reputation, influence, and impact is that you start to practice storytelling about you and coming up with examples of how you've demonstrated, you know, I'm a strategic. Um, one of the things I love was when I was five, I used to plan ahead how we as a family were going to do, you know, and this has led me, and I realized then that I'm quite a strategic thinker, and so that's come translated to now into me leading strategy and how that works is, and one of my have some of my successes have been, and I think back to when I was five, and I think, oh, you know that kind of engaging story, and what's great about that is because it's true, and all you're doing is translating you at five, taking where you were your brilliance, and translating it into, oh, here it is here. People will remember that. They'll remember. I did a post, you know, about one of these and one of my clients who came in. Uh, I was interviewing her for a role, and she came in with the stuffed dinosaur. I was like, whoa. And she was, and I hadn't, I'd talked to her over the phone, but I hadn't met her one-on-one. This is before COVID. So she bought this little, and I said, Oh, she said, I'm really sorry, but it's my son's birthday tomorrow. And I saw he loves dinosaurs, and he dresses up, eats dinosaurs, everything's dinosaur. And I went past the toy shop or something, and I saw the dinosaur, and I thought, that's he loves it. And the purple is his favorite colour. So she started telling me, you know, and one of the things I have to do is I have to plan it, and that's what I'm really good at, is and so we got this whole story of her. And I was just like, oh my god, that was I was engaged in this story, and out of that came the fact that you know, she's a project manager, and so I interviewed her, and it was really funny because I said, You should keep telling that story about your son because it's great. And then anyway, a couple of weeks later, I um was you know talking to a hiring manager, and he said, You know, I want uh, you know, I want someone who's got a bit of creativity that can do the job. And I went, I know someone. And it was it was Gail, the dinosaur. And he went, What? I said, Oh no, this dinosaur story. And she got the job. So that's this the power of storytelling. And she was going, I can't believe it. And I said, No, but it was that's the power, that's the connection piece, and it made me remember you. And I was thinking in my you know, file, and I met many, many candidates, but she stood out when the as soon as you said innovative, creative, because she was telling about how she makes these dinosaur biscuits and I was like, whoa, that's amazing. So that for a person's introvert, an introvert in regard to your question, is actually just getting yeah, it's that understanding who you are, where you've come from, and what you bring to the present and how you're going to take it into the future.

Ratings, Sharing, And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_00 29:55

And sometimes the best way to do that is not by asking ourselves that question, because I know as an introvert, I would get stuck in my own head and I would think, oh, that story's not good enough and all that. But I would be talking to someone like you, and then you would be pulling that stuff out of me because you can see the magic where most of us quiet achievers, we just think, oh, you know, that's really ordinary. I don't know that anybody cares about that. But you might, because you're looking in with fresh eyes as an observer, and you're not personally attached to it or to the outcome, you would say, Oh, no, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah. Well, one of the very good uh what I'm coaching is why do get my clients to go out and ask other people, you know, and ask them to describe you three words to describe you and what have and how you have demonstrated that. So if it's been kindness, whatever it is, well, when have you seen that? And to have an example, and that is a really powerful um exercise. And they all come back and go, Oh my god, I can't believe it. And they and people give more than they, you know, then the three words, they'll go into a whole because they really want you to succeed, and they really privilege that you've come and asked them because that's and they want to give it to you, and they will. And I think that that's a really empowering thing, is often we just need to leave our heads alone and go out and ask people.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yes, leave our heads alone, go out and ask people. That takes some courage, though.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

It does take courage, but it's okay because courage is the one that gives you the best results.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yes, courage. So courage and relevance. We talked about the relevance muscle in our pre-interview. Can you tell us about this relevance muscle and and how do we build it in this current economy?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Um, I think the muscle is if I use the analogy of training, going to the gym, exercising. So for me, uh, I want to be active. My grandchildren are lively and full-on, and I don't see my future, my life in the future in the next decades, where I want to be active, I want to be mobile, I want to be strong. And so for me to do that, I actually have to start now. I actually have to start building strength, building my mobility, flexibility, and working on it, and I have to make a commitment to it. The same with resilience. It's not, it's a muscle that you enables you to adapt and enables you to um be able to look at a challenge and work out how am I going to get through this and it how am I going to draw up the energy to be able to deal with this challenge. And it also enables you to understand that relevance is being finding value in where you are, and it just doesn't come. It has to be like when you get to 60, what who do you want to be? Who are you becoming? And the relevance muscle starts, you start building that awareness 20, 30, 40, and you just build on. And so I think when you're looking at your life in the future, particularly for mid-45-ish, it's looking ahead and saying, How do I want to be? What does relevance look like to me? What do I feel I want to be? How do I want to be? Who do I want to become? And then look at that and think, okay, so what do I need to start building in myself, that muscle? So that's the journey, continuous journey of learning, and is you're continuously building.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

And I think that also keeps us optimistic and hopeful and excited about life. Because sometimes we're just reacting or, you know, going in default mode, and you're oh, we'll see how it goes when I get there. But then if you're saying, How do I want to be at 60 and you're only 45, then that gives you an impetus. You start looking for role models, you start looking for examples of what uh you know, healthy, inspiring 60-year-old does and looks like, and then you can work backwards from there. Yeah. So that's like it's it's sort of a fun way to play with a timeline, I think. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it is. Because as children, we we had such lively imaginations. And I think you know, if we can continue having that as you know, regardless of whatever age we are at, yes, that is enormously helpful and healthy. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Yes. I'm gonna steal that. That's fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

So uh Catherine, what's the best way for people to connect with you and find out more about your programs?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Uh the best ways through LinkedIn. Uh if you've got my, I think I've shared with you my LinkedIn profile. Yep.

unknown 34:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

I think that's the best way to connect with me. You get to know me. I I'm a big fan of visibility. So what you see on LinkedIn is essentially uh, it is who I am and what I do. I've got my cohort programs, which are groups of uh women of up to eight. It's called Invisible to Influential. I'm just running my eighth one last night. So it's a six-week program, and then I do one-on-one leadership coaching. Um mostly um that's more men and women. The cohort is specifically women. So I work with a lot of amazing men on the one-on-one coaching, and um I also post, I have um around personal brand, reputation, a whole lot of things that are there. So quite active on LinkedIn. So DM me and say hi.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Absolutely. We'll make sure to have all your links in the show notes for people to reach out and say hi and find out more about your programs. So thank you so much, Catherine, for sharing your time, coming on the Quiet Warrior podcast today and talking to us about the importance of reputation and influence and relevance and personal branding and how to be visible as an introvert by taking charge of our energy and by curating, I guess, the kind of experience we give other people by the way we show up.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Absolutely. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

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