121. Quiet Confidence, Cultural Identity & the Power of Big Asian Energy (John Wang)

What does it really mean to be confident — and does it have to look loud? In this rich and deeply personal conversation, we welcome John Wang, author of Big Asian Energy, TEDx speaker, and coach to high performers at companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, and Goldman Sachs. John shares his journey from a shy, immigrant kid in North America to a globally recognised leadership coach — and the burnout that became his turning point. 

Together, we explore the invisible weight so many Asian professionals carry: the conditioning to work harder, stay humble, and never take up too much space. We talk about the bamboo ceiling, the shadow side of family duty, and what it looks and feels like to move from self-diminishment toward genuine self-leadership.

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt that quiet ache of knowing their ideas are good — and staying silent anyway. 

About John Wang

John Wang is the author of Big Asian Energy (Penguin), host of the Big Asian Energy podcast, and a TEDx keynote speaker dedicated to helping Asian professionals break through leadership barriers and be recognised for their full potential. With over 15 years of coaching experience and content that has reached more than 25 million views across social media, John has built a global community of over 240,000 followers. He is also trained in Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. 

What We Cover in This Episode

• John’s origin story  
• The “messy middle”: how burning out in his early 30s became the catalyst for his deepest personal growth
• The three-part structure of Big Asian Energy: confidence, communication, and community — and why all three matter
• Why quiet confidence — rooted in calm and strength — is a cultural asset, not a limitation
•  The “achiever monster”: the internal voice that tells us we’re never enough, and why it runs especially deep for Asian professionals
• A research finding that stopped John in his tracks 
• The “92%” story — a childhood moment that quietly taught John to shrink his pride and brace for diminishment
• The difference between humility and toxic self-doubt — and how one can masquerade as the other
• The seven forms of self-sabotage explored in the book 
• Family duty versus toxic obligation: how giving from love differs from giving from debt
• The eldest daughter syndrome and the hidden cost of always being the one who holds everything together
• What becomes possible when we make peace with the younger self who was just trying to survive 
• Introversion, extroversion, and authenticity: why inner work strengthens everyone on the spectrum
• John’s key takeaway: start asking “I wonder why” 

Check out John Wang's book, coaching and speaking:

BigAsianEnergy.com

Work with Serena: 

If you’re ready to become visible, respected, and promotable—without performing extroversion—explore Serena’s 1:1 coaching at serenalow.com.au.

Work with Serena Low at serenalow.com.au. 

Loved this episode? Leave a review to help other Quiet Warriors find the show.

This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Transcript

Meet John Wang

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Today's guest is John Wang, author of Big Asian Energy, host of the Big Asian Energy Podcast, and a keynote TEDx speaker helping Asian professionals break through leadership barriers and get recognized for their potential. With over 15 years of experience, he has coached high performers from companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, and Goldman Sachs, helping them speak with confidence, own their voice, and lead with presence. His insights on assertiveness, confidence, and cultural conditioning have reached over 25 million views across social media, where he has built a global audience of over 240,000 followers. Welcome, John, to the Quiet Warrior Podcast. It is so good to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

It's an absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Immigration Roots And The Crash

SPEAKER_00 0:48

John, let's take you back to the beginning. Most people have got a story of some kind, you know, starting with a plan A, and then there's a messy middle, which then shapes what happens in their lives after. As a fellow Asian, I'm curious to know what's your story?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

That's a great, that's a great way to put it. And I definitely can relate to the part with the messy middle and probably a bit of a messy beginning as well. Um, I uh so I immigrated, I was born in Taiwan and I immigrated with my family to North America when I was quite young. Um, you know, growing up, I was always a shyer kid and I wasn't, you know, that most outspoken. I would joke that I'm a recovering, awkward person. Um, and my parents instill with me these strong, I would say strong Asian values, right? Like work hard, keep your head down, study hard, you know, get into the top colleges you can. And then everything else would supposedly work out for itself. Um, so I did my best. I found a path, especially uh going into um language was my realization was like I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, because at the time my parents said you could be a lawyer, doctor, or an engineer. And I said, okay, I'm terrible at math, so I'm definitely not an engineer. I am, I cannot remember names for the best of me. So I'm definitely not going to be a doctor. So I thought I'd be a lawyer. Uh I'd end up working in corporate for a while and then starting in my own business, uh, doing training and you know, communications education, working with both students and professionals for several years. I'll say most of my 20s and going into my 30s. And then, you know, around the time my early 30s, basically I crashed. Uh, it was, I was taking on so much stress that I didn't realize because my conditioning has always taught me that I should just keep working harder and working harder. And I didn't realize that it was so deep within my own understanding that that was the only path that I never really looked at any of the other parts of my, you know, my world with the same discernment of is there a better way? Um, that was a big transition point for me when I realized that the things that I was teaching, which was most performance-focused, and how do we perform better? How do we look better, et cetera, and work harder, was actually the same thing that was actually weighing me down. Uh, so I went through several years of my own internal journey and development. I went through therapy and I realized that there's actually a lot within us that, especially from a diasporic or Western environment, I didn't realize there was a gap of understanding that was there in between. So it took me quite a bit of time to kind of recenter, find my own true value system, and work better towards what it is that was more in alignment of it. Um, that had helped extremely in that um, even you know, that development period where I started realizing the authenticity of who I was, the parts that I was hiding behind the performance, the, the, the, um the true self that I talk about, the parts that were truly there, was actually always present within me. And I think in identifying the patterns that I was playing out, which included the overwork, but it also included the ways I was hiding myself, the ways that I would self-diminish, the ways that I would self-sabotage, was actually far more prevalent in how it is that I relooked at how to reach success. And thankfully, now that I've developed a better understanding of it, I took a lot of training and actually got to work with many, many Asian Americans throughout the process. Uh, I kind of shifted uh how I approached it and landed in a much better place where I am now, where I'm, you know, speaking globally and writing books and you know, getting to help other people that perhaps saw a little bit of my story and their stories as well.

Why The Book Has Three Parts

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Speaking of the story, I'm about halfway through Big Asian energy, and I want to thank you for writing it because it is not the usual self-help book. It feels very personal, but also very universal. And I think what's particularly useful for readers is that you include uh episodes from your trainings, your workshops, your coaching sessions, and examples of how you've helped people. And you give a lot of practical examples as well as exercises that people reading can do themselves in that moment. And I think that's one of the really useful uh things that that stood out for me just from a first reading. So thank you for framing it that way. I noticed that you've put it into three sections. There was big Asian energy, and then there was communication, and then there was community. Why was it structured that way?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah. Um, yeah, it ended up being almost like three books in one, which the Asian part of me really likes because it's like you get three books, it's like a good deal. Um, I think because I think all three are important. Uh, the first part, Big Asian energy, is really about the confidence, like and not this loud, like performative confidence that we oftentimes imagine what confidence will look like, especially in Western worlds, right? When we think of somebody who's confident, you know, we we tend to see somebody who's big and dominating and perhaps a little bit, you know, very assertive. And what I really wanted to work on was identifying how to see ourselves from the lens of there's quiet confidence, there's the strength and calm that comes from the confidence that's very prevalent in our cultures and how do we integrate it? And then the second part really is okay, well, now that you've kind of established this confidence and true belief and empowerment within yourself, how do we now take that into the real world? So other people can not only recognize us for our capabilities, but also our potential. And I think that part is a little bit more hands-on and practical. And I wanted a practical guide people can literally just apply to their everyday lives. Like you could take the scripts that I've written and take it to work tomorrow and you know, get better promotions, you know, set better boundaries, you know, start being seen for what our true strengths are. And then I remember at the time, just to share a little anecdote, uh, I was sitting with my editor over at Penguin. And, you know, she's incredible. I love my editor. And we were, we were looking at this, and I felt like there's something deeper that that we haven't quite hit. You know, this is a handbook that I wanted people to have that they can apply to their workplace and their personal lives and everything. But I felt like what is it that really makes Asians different? Is our families and our community. And, you know, we are, we're we're what's culturally speaking called collectivist versus individualist, right? Western cultures, you know, in Australia or North America or Europe are much more individualistic in the way that they see things. Individuals are seen as about personal rights, personal communication. Um, but the strength from our culture that I love so much is our connection to our community. So I realized I wanted to put a special emphasis on how do we reconnect with our community so we can bring back the new learnings that we've gotten, the ways that we've grown and perhaps not just reintegrate, but also to elevate our community at the same time. So in that section, I actually dive deeper into everything from how do we handle and work with our families? Because that's always a tough one sometimes. I love my family to bits and pieces. I think so many of the people I've worked with love their families, they love their parents. But sometimes it could be a little bit challenging, especially if you have, you know, been more, let's say, uh westernized in some views about that perspective. And so, how do we now reintegrate where we don't feel like we're the kid in our family anymore? You know, because that's often some people say it's like, oh, I'm an adult, I'm in my 30s, but sometimes I still feel like a kid around my parents. I still don't know how to relate to them on a deeper level. And I feel like that's such a lost opportunity. So that's that third section is about building our social community, building our network, our friendships, but also about who we are internally and the way we relate to ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

I think that's very powerful.

Family Hierarchy And The Pressure

SPEAKER_00 9:33

And I think a lot of people listening will identify that whether you are 30, 40, 50, you're always the child. As long as your parent is still, you know, still in charge of the family, and that, you know, the family matriarch, use that's the person everybody listens to. And it doesn't matter if you're a CEO or whatever you're doing in your life, as soon as you step in the door, you come into the family home, you know your place. That hierarchy is a very solid thing. And so I think the problem would then for for Asians, we talk about the bamboo ceiling, but I think even within families, there's also this sense of I I can't let my family down. I can't, you know, let my family feel ashamed. I want them to be proud of me. And I remember something you said in your book about you know, your 18 levels of your ancestors or 18 generations of your ancestors. You worry about that too. Like, you know, how do I look in front of everybody? What are they going to say and about me at the next family gathering? How do I compare to my cousin, my my sibling, my, you know, whoever who is more successful? And those things we absorb from childhood, those sorts of values, those sorts of standards, we do carry them into adulthood. And they do serve us well because we're always setting high standards for ourselves. But then where is that line between overachieving and just good enough? Because it's not enough to be just good enough for an Asian, is it?

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Absolutely. You know, it's a funny thing. I remember sharing one of the stories in Big Asian Energy was um I uh I was speaking to a uh corporate trainer and coach at Google, and he is the global uh director of health and wellness at Google. And he talks about this. He he says that, you know, when he goes to talk to a group of, you know, all of these high-tech achievers and and all these, you know, C levels, and you ask, you know, you talk about this concept of being the achiever monster, like this little monster in the back of his head that's always telling him that he's not good enough. And he's like, is it just me or is anyone else feeling this? And he said, you know, when I'm in a group of high achievers, it's a mix, you know, maybe like seven out of 10 people raise their hand. But he said, when I'm in a group of Asians, it's like 11 out of 10. Everyone has their hands up, everyone feels this tremendous pressure. And you would think that's a good thing. And in fact, that's how I was raised. I thought that overachieving belief is a positive thing. It helps me get success. And even the ideal of being good enough sounds, well, kind of like a kind of like a compromise. But when we actually take a look at real studies and research, you know, that that looks at leadership studies, what they find is that it actually has the opposite effect. Because when we are so hard on ourselves and so perfectionistic in how it is that we're viewed, we end up holding ourselves back from going after promotions or achievements that perhaps we think, oh, well, I'm not good enough to go and ask for that yet. I'm not good enough to reach out and to raise my hand in those situations. Who said I'm my ideas are acceptable in that? You know, who said who said I can? And that permission that we don't give ourselves because of the high standards ends up costing us opportunities, ends up costing us to be being seen by others for our achievements, truly. And I think that it's about finding a balance, right? It's it's finding the balance between when am I actually self-diminishing because I am trying to be humble and I'm just kind of downplaying my achievements. And when am I fully self-abandoning by saying, oh, I genuinely believe I'm not good enough. And therefore I won't go for those opportunities. I won't put myself out there, I won't ask those questions or share my ideas. And then later on in the day, I hear somebody else get credit for that same idea. And I'm like, oh, I knew that idea was good. Why didn't I say so earlier? And that's where it is that the good enough part comes from is that you don't have to overachieve to deserve the same worth that everyone else does. And speaking of studies, because I I put a lot of studies in the book, I love research, I love empirical evidence, because I think so many of these anecdotal stories are great. But there's actually a study that shows, in fact, that 50 uh 53% of Asian Americans believe that to deserve the same worth and recognition as their peers, they have to outperform them. And I always thought that was a strange belief. Why? Where do we learn this? And I think in the book, that's what it is that we really dive deeper into to explore.

Self Sabotage Shame And Silence

SPEAKER_00 14:24

So you talked about the seven forms of self-sabotage in your book, and I think you just referred to one of them, the self-diminishment, and the other extreme being the self-abandonment. Why do you think it is that as quiet achievers, as people who are you know conditioned to be high performers, why what is it that's keeping us uh small? We have the external validation in the form of recognition, awards, you know, academics and all that, that already tell us we are good enough. But at the same time, we are making ourselves even smaller, unable to take up space or refusing to take up space. We mute our voices, we lower our voices, and we sort of shrink whenever we are in those situations. What is the thinking behind that? What is it we are trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah, so I I you I loved giving the story of, you know, when I was a kid, when I was uh, I remember coming back with a report card one time and I had just done a test at school for math. And again, I I said this before, I break every Asian stereotype. I'm terrible at math. But I remember all feeling so proud one time, I brought home a 92% out of 100, right? And I was like, wow, like that was the best mark I ever had. And I was, you know, bragging and I came home and I showed it to my mom and I was like, look, I got 92%. And I still remember, you know, she kind of looked at it and was like, what happened to the other 8%? And I just felt so deflated. And I was like, oh, and I didn't blame her at the time because she was right, you know, because she would, you know, she would say, Well, look, your sister got 100%, you know, your cousins got 100%, your classmates got 100%, you know, what happened to you? And I remember two things that I learned that day. And the first thing that I learned was you should be careful how proud you are of your accomplishments, because there's always somebody who's done more. And if you share it too loudly and you're too proud of yourself, then that diminishment can hurt that much more. And the second thing that I learned was, right, how even deeper, how I'm gonna use the word dare, but how dare I even suggest it that that was a good enough mark when there is always the gap? Now, I'm not saying that this story is universal to every family, of course. I'm sure there's lots of families and lots of people who didn't have that experience growing up, but I found that it is also a part of the cultural upbringing that we're in, because we we value humility so much. And don't get me wrong, I love humility. Humility in its most true form comes from I value my own worth, but I will not hold as superior to others. I don't believe that I'm better just because of my accomplishments. But what I didn't realize was that what I was holding wasn't humility. What I was holding when I was growing up and not wanting to talk about my accomplishments or maybe even believing that I had my accomplishments, was I was holding this kind of toxic self-doubt and questioning any time that I had reached an accomplishment and thinking, but if somebody else still did it better, then I shouldn't even be proud of myself. And I think this, among a lot of other experiences we may have had in the striving to create, you know, to create more achievement, sometimes teaches us that speaking about ourselves is in and of itself shameful. Or, you know, it's somehow breaking the sacrifice that our parents have given us or that our environment has, you know, supported us in. And I think to a certain degree, that leads us not only to be humble, but even worse, I'm sorry, not even worse, but even more than the humility, it leads us into feeling that we should be invisible.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So that's that element of shame. And shame is, I think, it's a bit different from guilt, isn't it? Guilt is I've done something wrong and I'm aware of it. Shame is I'm the bad person. So when you feel like, oh, I'm the unfilial child, or you know, I haven't honored my parents' sacrifices, I I haven't done my best and I'm letting people down, then it becomes personal. And that's that's very uh erosive, very corrosive. Because that that is that self-diminishment which can then you know descend into self-abandonment because I'm just not good enough. There is still that missing eight percent. And that's a reflection on me, is a reflection on my parents, reflection of my ancestry. It's not just me. So that shame goes really deeply. So I can see why then you know, as uh as an Asian, you know, we would overcompensate. So, what is the flip side

Rebalancing Patterns And True Self

SPEAKER_00 19:10

of that? What is your advice to people to how do they rebalance that?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Well, there's always finding what is true, you know, we all have within us a true self. This is where our greatest confidence, creativity, compassion, this is our most highest version of ourselves. And the truth is we're all born with it. This is the core programming of who we are. And then along the way, we start to learn and develop these patterns. And some of these patterns that we pick up, and as you so astutely pointed out, some of these patterns are picked up from shame, some of these patterns were picked up for survival, some of these patterns were picked up because we were taught this is what you should do to better belong. Um, being the achiever is that, being the fixer, the people pleaser is one of those patterns. You know, being the chameleon and kind of like self-hiding is one of those patterns. And all these patterns that we take a look at are where it is that we're actually pulling ourselves back on unknowingly. I think when we're able to see where that comes from and understand, oh, why do I have a hard time saying no to people or have, you know, drawing clear boundaries or, you know, speaking up for my worth or speaking up for my ideas, it doesn't come from there's something wrong with me, but it comes from at some point I learned a strategy that served me. Maybe that strategy was taught in our childhood in our home, where we learned that the best way to not get yelled at is if you study hard, right? Like if I was always studying, then you know, no one's gonna have a problem with me. Um, or maybe that's hey, like the best way for me to have value is if I'm taking care of everyone else's needs. This is something I often hear from my female clients, especially if they're the firstborn, you know, the the oldest daughter. There's the eldest daughter syndrome we often talk about, right? Where it's like I have to self-abandon and self-sacrifice to take care of everyone else around me. Because if I'm useful, then I'm needed. And then if I'm needed, then it doesn't matter if I'm not wanted.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

What I'm hearing you say is this this goes to someone's identity. Is that right? That that you see yourself as a fixer, as uh as a charmer, chameleon, and all the other archetypes that I think you've explained very clearly in your book, and yeah, they're very very helpful because people can see immediately, ah, that's me. They recognize themselves. And so you're saying that there is a shadow side to that. That in fixing, for instance, you know, you you fix everyone else, but then it's at the cost, it's there's a there's it's at the expense of your own well being too.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yes, and in fact, what we really look at. Is it coming from a genuine giving, or is it coming from I need to do this because this is the only way I'll receive what I need? As with everything, there's always a, you know, it's kind of like the yin and the yang, right? There's always a shadow side to everything. So on one side, for example, is family duty. Family duty is a beautiful thing. I love that I'm taking care of my family. That's my role. And I get to do that. And I wake up in the morning and I feel so excited by it because that's where it is that I have purpose. Now, on the other side is toxic obligation. Toxic obligation is you have to self-sacrifice. And if you're not self-sacrificing, then you're wrong. You're bad. You're you're a bad daughter, you're a bad son. And then that's not really about giving anymore, is it? Because giving should come from love. It should, well, I'm honoring my parents. I want to give to them because I care about them and I want to make see them happy. But it shouldn't come from debt. So when we take a look at all of these various things, most of the time it's just identifying where is this shadow side? You know, is this coming from genuine kindness and giving, or is this from self-diminishment? Am I being kind or am I being quote unquote nice? Am I just self-silencing or am I genuinely giving other people space? These are the patterns that show up in I think all of our lives, myself included, every single one of the patterns come from our I've I found within myself. Because I think that they're just maladaptive methods that we've learned to support ourselves in the process. The only question is, do we still need them?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

So what you're inviting people to do is to re-evaluate. So we've been taught a certain set of scripts, a certain kind of conditioning and beliefs, and they have shown up in the way we conduct ourselves professionally. So these root causes are important to identify, to work through. What is on the other side of this? What happens once we are able to make peace with you know that seven-year-old self or their 12-year-old self who was maladapting, who was about survival or strategy or safety at the time. And now they are in their 30s, 40s, 50s. What is possible for them once they have worked through these situations you just mentioned?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Well, that's where our the the true potential of who we are gets to come out, right? We talk about this idea of potential so often, like, oh, I feel like I have so much potential. And we do, that potential truly is unlimited. And it comes from our integrative, empowered self. So it's these sound, you know, a little bit self-helpy, but really what we're describing is freedom. The freedom to truly have that clarity and certainty in this is my purpose, this is where I'm supposed to go. And I have the knowledge and groundedness in which nothing will really bother me because I know that I'm able to withstand any challenge, any difficulty, and have that resilience not come just from self-sacrifice, but from this grounded sense of greater purpose. And I think that to me, that sense of self-leadership really is where all of our greatest creations, all of our greatest gifts lie.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

It sounds to me that that's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Yes, it's the highest form of confidence that we can really think of, because the confidence isn't about loudness, it's just the fact that we are so self-possessed. We we own ourselves so that we're not looking for validation and safety outside because we have it given to us within.

Introverts Extroverts And Being Heard

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And what is the intersectionality? We we've talked about the Asian American um traits, where it's when I see there's an overlap between culture, family systems, but also what about the introversion, extroversion spectrum? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

I believe that we, you know, we all have our own personalities. And whatever it is that your personality is, there's always a true self. Now, my goal, as always, with anyone else's goals is always to ask, how do we come back to who we truly are? And when we go out there and we say, I'm looking to find myself, well, I'm not sure there is anything to find. What I mean by that is that our selves are already there with us. The question is, can we be there? So if you're extroverted, great. This is going to help you embody that central system that lets your extroversion be seen. If you're introverted, great. This gives you greater depth and strength so that when you do speak, those around you can see and hear you and not just think you're shy or quiet, you know, or perhaps even afraid.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So that's that agility to move up and down the spectrum, to honor our personality, but at the same time, I think do that inner work. And I think you did mention therapy at the start of this conversation and in your book as well. And that is an option for people to explore. And I'm glad that there's greater awareness around it now, too. What is the one thing you want listeners to take away from the conversation today?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

To start exploring why, I think. Um, one of the things that I think we don't often look at is just, I wonder why I did that. You know, we I love personally, you know, one of my training backgrounds is in it's called IFS, which is called internal family systems. And I absolutely love and adore the modality because it simply looks at all the parts that we have. You ever hear someone say things like, oh, a part of me you really wanted to go do this, but another part of me is procrastinating? And it's basically asking, I wonder why there's a part of me that's procrastinating. Because I think that when we are able to look at within ourselves and ask these questions of, I wonder where that's coming from, that's usually where it is that we can start exploring and say, Oh, I learned this when I was younger. And does it still serve me now? And at the core of this, you know, I often wear a shirt that says, I believe in you. And I get asked this question a lot, which is why do you have a shirt that says I believe in you? And I always say it's because I don't think I heard it enough when I was a kid. And now I wear it so that when I look at myself in the mirror, I can see it. And it reminds me that I'm worth believing in. And I hope that for anyone who's listening right now, I just want to say, I believe in you.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

That's a beautiful way to wrap up the conversation, John.

Where To Connect And Final CTA

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I appreciate you so much for coming on today. What is the best way for people to connect with you? Buy your book, work with you.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Absolutely. Uh, you can find my website at bigasianenergy.com. Uh, you can also just go anywhere it is that you buy books and check out Big Asian Energy. Uh, I always recommend people to uh take a look. Uh, I have a podcast and we often do resource giveaways. So, you know, we have guides that we sometimes send out to our community. So my biggest desire in this world is to see all of us elevate at the same time, because my biggest belief is always rising tides elevates our ships.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Beautiful. Thank you so much. If you're ready to be seen without having to perform extraversion, join the visible introvert community at the visibleintrovert.com. Link in the show notes. This is where I share the skills on how to be memorable and impactful without diluting the essence of who you are. See you on the next episode. I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serenalo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.