Ann Marie O’Grady Explains How Sport Changes Lives

A CEO who competes at world-level kickboxing and leads one of Ireland’s most important disability organisations brings a rare mix of grit and empathy to the table. We meet Ann Marie O’Grady, CEO of the Irish Wheelchair Association, to unpack what curiosity looks like as a leadership habit, how culture scales across a national team, and why sport is often the fastest route to confidence, connection and long-term health. 

We talk about IWA Sport in the context of the wider Irish Wheelchair Association: not just clubs and competitions, but the everyday reality of inclusion, access, and opportunity. Anne Marie shares why disability sport participation in Ireland still lags behind, how awareness gaps can delay a child or adult’s pathway by years, and why visibility from the Paralympics is powerful but not enough on its own. 

From there, we get practical. We dive into the Fitness Inclusion programme that partners with local gyms and personal trainers to make strength, conditioning and wellbeing genuinely accessible, and we look at what it takes to grow impact sustainably. Anne Marie also explains the strategic work behind bringing boccia into IWA Sport, and how funding, digital transformation and partnerships, including social prescribing, shape what’s possible for para sport and community participation. 

If you care about inclusive sport, disability sport Ireland, leadership, or building programmes that actually reach people, this conversation will give you ideas you can use. Subscribe, share it with someone in sport or health, leave a review, and tell us: what would make it easier for more people with a disability to find their way into sport?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Screen here and putting up a little nation on the map, but it's just you know this is of dreams.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Hello and welcome to the Sport for Business Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Hartnett, and in this episode, we are diving back into our 2026 series of CEO interviews with those who are guiding the way in which sporting and other organizations are operating in this incredibly increasingly complex world. Today we are talking with Amory O'Grady, who is the CEO of the Irish Wheelchair Association and who has responsibility for IWA Sport, a magnificent organization creating opportunity and enthusiasm for people with a physical disability to compete and to participate in sport and physical activity. It's a really interesting interview, and Marie's leadership style comes shining through. She is curious above all else, and that's always something which I love to lean into. She's also a woman of many parts because she is a former hockey goalkeeper, despite being only five foot one inch tall, and she is also an international Irish kickboxer. So to find out about that and about so much more in the world of the Irish Wheelchair Association and the world of Amory O'Grady, let's head over to Clontaf. So we're out here now in uh in at the moment, Sunny Clontaf, um just behind the Central Remedial Clinic at the offices of the Irish Wheelchair Association. I'm delighted to be joined by Anne Marie O'Grady, who is the CEO of that organisation. Welcome to the Sport for Business Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Well, welcome to IWA Clontarf.

From Physio To Chief Executive

SPEAKER_02 2:23

I've been here quite a few times, always for sport. So watching the whether it be the wheelchair rugby or some of the come and try sessions that that Nikki Hamill and the team have done before. But this is a nice opportunity for us to find out a little bit more about you and about the organization and the wider organization, because IWA Sport has uh, you know, as a very strong self-contained brand, but it is a part of the wider organization. Uh so we'll we'll get into all of that. We'll find out a little bit more about you as well. Um, but just to kick us off, can you give me a 10 cent tour of Amory O'Brady's professional life, which has brought you into this chair?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Oh, yes. So uh thanks Emily for the opportunity, and it's brilliant to be here um talking about IWA, which is an incredible organization. I suppose where do I start? I my son is doing his legal search at the moment. So when I was at that stage, I wanted to get into physiotherapy. I love my sport, so obviously I wanted to get into physiotherapy, and I was going to be a sports physiotherapist. So it didn't exactly work out that way. So I got into physiotherapy and ended up working in intensive care.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Because it was an area I didn't even know about and then found it really interesting. And there was somebody who worked there who inspired me and went, Oh my goodness, you can make a real difference here. Uh still tipped away at the sport. Back in those days, um, any sports physiotherapist um wasn't paid for their pitch side stuff. It was all pro bono, but loved it. Um I was playing hockey at the time during college, so I was um played uh under 21s for hockey for Ireland. Right. Um so I was having a lot of physiotherapy um input there, and uh played keeper. So went into physio, went through usual role, um, ended up in that specialism in intensive care. And again got opportunities to explore things, try things, develop things. Managers said, would you introduce this? Would you research this? So I got an opportunity later on to go to New Zealand. Um, and for a year, as everybody does, most people go to Australia, out to New Zealand. And there was an individual working there, head of occupational therapy, who was involved more broadly in management. They did their own job, but they were involved in projects outside. Again, really interesting. I thought, oh, that's interesting. So that's how my management career started. I ended up as a physio manager in James's Hospital and thought it was great. I was going to have loads of time, and I was going to look at my computer. I then realized my predecessor had been bluffing or at least covering up the amount of workload. So went through the professional physio, ended up a physiotherapy manager in Beaumont, but again making a difference, broader impact, and worked through a couple of projects and then got an opportunity to go onto the management team at Beaumont.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

And again, that was I had the therapies under me, I had the labs under me, um, but somebody took a career break or um took us a comment, and there were elements of her job that they were gonna hire somebody into. And I was going, that's kind of interesting stuff over there. Said to the CEO, could I do some of that?

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Sounds like you've got a very curious mind.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

I think curious is my word, and um just go for it. So I entered up with a management team there, incredible experience, um, ended up responsible to for Joe's Joseph's in Rahini, business planning, lots of development, epilepsy units, calf labs, lots of things there. But built really it was all about relationships, it was all about people, it was all about a shared vision about what you could make better, how could that be? What difference could it make? So at that point in time, um got an opportunity, saw a role, which was Joe Leoperson Park Hospital, older persons at 125 beds, mixed, um, mixed respite rehab, residential, and looked at it and said, that's kind of what I'm doing, some of what I'm doing at the moment.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

And I was kind of at the stage where I kind of wanted to make my own mistakes.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Good, bad, or ugly. I had brilliant bosses, brilliant mentors, but sometimes you just want to make the decisions or be part of it or have some influence. So went for that and got that, and was in Leopardstown for nine years.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

In the middle of COVID. So that was older persons, middle of COVID, while COVID was horrendous. Obviously, the work we did in that time was absolutely brilliant. And again, great people working with me. Key about what makes a difference to individuals. So that was a fantastic experience. And then I got approached about putting my name forward for this job. And I wasn't planning to leave, and I wasn't really, there was lots going on in Leopardstown. And I actually came back to the recruiter and said, actually, wrong time.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

And she said, I go back to particularly my women and say, think about yourself.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

And this job isn't going to come up for another long time. So I had another look, and I suppose for me looking at it, there's the service side, which I was very familiar with. It was the sport side, which was like, that's just amazing. And the other element was the advocacy side about changing the world for the future and making a difference to people. So not just now, in the moment now, but how can we change that for the future? And I suppose that really attracted me. And I have an incredible team, unbelievable, across sports services, central services, highly competent, unbelievably passionate. Um, many have been here 20 years and they are else-driven and as committed as the day they came in. And many came from entry-level roles, which I think is a testament. So yeah, I'm really fortunate and sport through the time. Hockey, I was involved, um, went joined UCD karate club and ended up loving that. Um and ended up representing Ireland in a in a worlds at one stage. So that was cool. And then was that in karate? Karate. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So got Europeans at under 21's hockey, karate at uh got to worlds. Um, and then some of the social side of things met my husband through kayaking. Okay. Um, and currently from a sport perspective, I'm I'm kickbox. I had to I changed discipline, went back to it, went back to a martial art in 2021, 22. Okay. Um, and I'm really passionate about, we talk about stock the drop for younger women, but actually I'm really passionate about the women who did keep going. But then because life got in the way, they dropped off. And for me, I'm really passionate about getting women back my life into those. And so went back in their first day training. Went, I love this. I'd forgotten how much training it does. Really good coaches, and I think that's it. In sport, the coaches are just the secret sauce. Yeah. And a coach, my coach said, What do you think about competing? And I was going, Do you know what age I am? He'd like, well, that'll focus your training. And then was trained really hard, working with the superb coaches um in Talamartial Arts, and ended up being going to the World Championships kickboxing in 2023. Um so and meddled there, which was a surprise to me as much as anything else. But having sport socially or I do like competitive side, let's be honest. Um, but being able to push yourself, being able to drive yourself. And I think recent studies were about the number of CEOs, female CEOs who have a sporting background. Like the figure is incredibly high.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

I I take this down off of the shelf on a very regular basis. And it's it's it's it's a it's a shame that the research hasn't been redone. This is probably 10, 12, 15 years ago now, but EY did a research project in the US. And of the the women who had attained C-suite status in the FTSE 100, 92% had been involved at college level. So not just as high school, not just going to a competitive and uh you know college is is elite in in the US. So that's that's absolutely true. Yeah. There must be something about the letter K because there's not that many sports with K.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I think kickboxing karate.

Combat Sport As A Reset

SPEAKER_02 11:46

And even hockey has got a K in it as well. That's mad. Um the timing of the return to it was part of that. Obviously, managing uh a hospital where older people are your sort of your stock and trade during COVID must have been incredibly challenging from a personal perspective and everything else. Did you find that sport, and particularly in combat sport, was something of a release that you could forget everything else?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I I think, particularly in combat sport, it is mindful. You cannot be thinking about anything else. Because if somebody's about to hit you and you're thinking about, did I remember to submit that grant application for something it's not so I I think I think anything that you push yourself, you you're pushing yourself against yourself. I think all the sports I've been involved, some of the obviously hockey is a team sport, but the other two are technically individual sports. But the sense of community of those sports, because all of them are weighted. So you're very rarely against anybody else you're training in because you're usually in a different weight category. But very rarely you are so what I've found is that everybody wants you to improve.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

That that generosity, and like I'll be sparring and especially I'll be sparring, and there'll be 12-year-olds coaching me. They're absolutely brilliant, you know, and but they'll be going, you know, what's your front hand, or what you know, so people are really generous that if you're working and you're trying to try and improve, people are brilliant. So you have your your coaches, coaches, and I have incredible coaches in in telemartial arts, but everybody else, and like some of them are incredible world champions, like at all ages, but they're as humble and as hardworking, and they're putting the heart's log in every day, and their commitment is just unbelievable. And they're all working full-time, they're all studying or working or family managed. So I think from a from a going back at that time, and I think it's quite interesting, I think women can can lose themselves in the busyness of being a parent, of being an employee, of being a boss, of being um uh with caring responsibilities, and you kind of think you haven't got the time because you're too busy. And I think that definitely feels that that's the case. But how do you carve out a little bit? And I'm really passionate about because when I went back and started competing, there was there was one person competing at the time, and she was only competing intermittently. There was nobody else in Ireland competing in veterans.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

So for me to actually get competition other than being chased around by young ones, yeah, um, was to go internationally to get a sense of where I was and what level I was at. So, how do you get people who've dropped off? And in fact, what I'm really proud of now, because of going to the worlds and and and that visibility, we've probably about now about nine or ten or twelve women who are competing in veteran categories in Ireland, and most of those competed over the years. So, in fact, when they come back, a bit of fitness, their fight IQ, their strategy is pretty sharp.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

So it's getting really competitive, and it's also happening, I see internationally, those categories are getting bigger. So I think finding a way, but ultimately you have to have the support. So I have an incredible husband who is the most tolerant person in the world, which has helped me get to my professional place, uh, has picked up every piece that I dropped repeatedly over the years. But also when there was a query about going to worlds and my level of training had to, because I wasn't gonna go unless I could say I couldn't have done anything more. Yeah, that couldn't have been done without him picking up even more of the pieces. But even that, I I took up um mothers and others in GAA a couple of years back from the social side. But getting just an hour carved out, you can manage that, but if you've if you've a support structure. So I think I'm really passionate about trying to get those individuals back from a socializing, from a well-being, from a strength and conditioning, from a you know, future, future health perspective.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Very true. I've I have a personal kind of mantra about 168, is that there are 168 hours in a week. And when somebody says, Oh, I just don't have the time, within that, there will be an hour that you'll be able to find, you know.

Why Participation Still Lags

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And some of it's habitual because if you if you if I'm going training tonight, so I know I'm going training tonight, so I'm not thinking, will I go training tonight? Something has to intervene significantly for me not to go. So it's it's that kind of nudge theory of you're already there, you're already thinking. Whereas if you have to take that hump of will I go, won't I go, there's always 17 million other things to be there. So I think it and looking at how important para sport is and participation from the smallies all the way up to lifelong, hell that how important that is, and you know, from a psychological perspective, and how important that is physically. You know, um, what is it? Um Kofi and Ann said that the nice quote, he said, it's sport is a universal language, it builds bridges, it tears down walls, and it fosters hope. So it's more, we all know sport is more. Um, and I think in Para, that kind of idea of building bridges, tearing down walls, and fostering hope. When our founding fathers started here, that's what they started. They put 10 shillings in the hat and said, We got sport, we got to go to the Paralympics, the first Paralympics. This needs to be more people. So it's that foster, it's breaking down. Can you? Well, yes, you can. You know, if we see you've seen the wheelchair rugby players, yeah. It's not called murder ball for for nothing, you know. Yeah, and I think wheelchair basketball and wheelchair rugby were some of the ones picked up with the Paralympics on the um on the television. They were really popular. People who had nothing to do with disability sport were going, Did you see them wheelchair rugby?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

So that sees people in and entirely and that is really important to actually create that sense of visibility so that people see people with a disability through a different lens. They don't just see the disability in the same way as I look at people on the road, I don't just see the colour of their hair, I don't just don't see whether they're tall or small, I see them as a human being, as a person, and that's exactly what we've got. And yet there's also the challenge of reaching out within the community of people with a disability, because the the numbers of those that participate in sport, not at an elite level, but just in terms of general physical well-being and physical activity, are less than the average.

Fitness Inclusion And Gym Confidence

SPEAKER_00 19:07

And they have not shifted. I mean, the sports monitor report you know looks at these and disadvantaged groups, etc. And what has shifted significantly is the female participation. Disability has not budged an inch. And that's really a very important part of what we want to do is get that out there. You know, we have 20 clubs, so there's opportunities out there. But one of the challenges is who knows about it? And Paralympics Ireland recently did a report on pathways and gateways, and the access for people and and girls, it's 10 years later that they might find out about sport. Nobody's rooting people in. There's a lack of awareness that IWA sport or other opportunities within sport are there. So um it's a hard one. The women with the you know, 2020 did really well, and it is the visibility has increased significantly. But there's lots of children, adults who potentially could be really involved in sport, but they don't know. And we've um we started within our day services, fitness inclusion. So people love the gym, everybody's going to the gym. Um but how come, how do you do that if you've physically like gyms are intimidating, let's be honest, on a good day. So two years ago, again, innovation within IWA, within our our day services, is Declan Hamilton's lead here, and he's mad into a sport. Um start with the gym, start with a local gym, partner with that local gym and with the personal trainers there, etc. And so a small group started going to the gym. And people with significant disabilities, now they're getting stronger, they're getting fitter, they're losing weight. That improves everything, including particularly psychologically. So that has that kind of has morphed and grown. Um, and um, we're if we can call it a virus, it'd be a good virus. Um it's now in a number of places around the country. And last year we held what we call the fitness inclusion games, held it in Sport Campus Ireland. Um and we have so kind of like uh if you imagine an adapted high rox.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Um absolutely incredible. This is what inclusion is about. And we're holding our next one at um on the 7th in Sport Ireland again. So it's bigger, and it is impacting more people. And it wasn't just the there were a few that started off with maybe a younger group with now all ages in into and they can now go to gyms themselves. And also the PTs are way more confident. And some of the feedback is our members want. To train. Some of their other members might be more about the Instagram and the uh sitting on the pictures. But these individuals, so they're they're building confidence. And potentially we might get a few power powerlifters out of that. Yeah. So the cycle, it's access, it's at where meet people meeting people where they're at and trying to get visibility so people get to find things they might like that they don't necessarily know they do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

And you mentioned there about the the psychological as well as the physiological benefits of activity. And it's it's not about beating the person next to you, it's about competing with your previous self, as is the case with most physical activity. But sport can sometimes be seen as being a little bit for somebody else. It's a little bit, you know, there are people who would still see sport as being, you know, the masters in golf or the Premier League in football or the you know the Irish rugby team or whatever. And that's the very point of the pyramid. Absolutely. The reality is that we need to persuade people about the benefits of actually doing this for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

And I think it's about community. And I talked about the sports that I've been involved in. I found my tribe with those people. And like I could pick up the phone to people from back in the you know late 80s and you know, and say, I'm in trouble. Can I have a call? They go, absolutely. This is your tribe, they're you know, kayaking. If you like somebody and get on with them when you're freezing cold on a river in the middle of Kerry in the middle of winter, do you know what? You've gone through pretty scary going down rapids. You trust people. You there's you know, a 16-year-old maybe rescuing you out of a out of a waterfall somewhere. You trust that 16-year-old. You wouldn't normally trust a 16-year-old to do anything. But sport, I think, builds a non, for me, my experience on all the sports, non-gendered, non-age. So I can these days with kickboxing, I might be having sitting down with a chat with a young lad who's 16 at a competition and having, and he's he's happy to have a conversation with me. You know, it doesn't matter who you what age you are, what gender you are. It also for sports, it doesn't matter where you came from, it doesn't matter what your school was, it doesn't matter what job you have. It's for me that's invisible. It's what are we doing on the mats? What are we doing going down a river? And there's something really freeing about finding people who just like the stuff you like.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

And that you would we would have had a um a paraathlete who has publicly talked about the fact that she joined something because she was worried mental health that somebody would actually miss her if she wasn't there. And she's talked publicly about that. But that community about somebody caring, well, so-and-so isn't that trending. Yeah, you know, oh, the good chest affection, little emoji back out to the mirror. Yeah. Those little touches and that socialization and that avoidance of loneliness.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

That we look after our own.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

We look after this. Is our crew.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Yeah, and that doesn't and that doesn't be based on you know, on how you look, what you do, where you live.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah. And a lot of society is about what you do, where do you go, where are you in the hierarchy of the totem pole in an organization. And that's why I I struggle. But as a CEO, I have to be conscious that sometimes that the the the role is is important as an entity because it means something.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

But in my head, I'm me. But it I have to be conscious that you know, if I go down to somewhere, it makes a big difference if I if I go down to Wexford or if I go, you know, and people see me, they're closely bothered coming down. Yeah. But ultimately it's about that connection. But within sport, and listen, sport isn't perfect, sport has all its gnarly, gnarly bits, but my experience has generally been that tribe.

Strategy And Bringing Sport Forward

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Okay. Let's broaden out the tribe, but also keep it focused on sport. So the Irish Wheelchair Association was originally founded on the basis of sporting people who happened to be in wheelchairs coming together to organize to go to what became the Paralympic Games. But the advocacy and the important part that you have within society, within the health service, is wider than sport as well. So, how much how much of your day, how much of your time, how much of your mind is taken up by sport in its professional capacity within the greater picture of wheelchair service users?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So I'm really lucky in this organization. So I get to think about the more strategic side. I have an incredible team in sport, led by Nikki Hamill, director of sport. So he does all the work with his team. I'm gonna be completely honest about it. So I don't day-to-day have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

Okay.

Boccia Transition Into IWA Sport

SPEAKER_00 27:14

But where I would come in on the sports side is supporting Nikki, looking at where we've a strategy coming, um, which we'll be launching this year. And our last strategy, well, it was excellent. Sport wasn't visible in it. And we were more using the word services. Services doesn't fit sport. And I suppose what I was really conscious of in our new strategy was sport would feel they lived they lived in the strategy. Now they had their own sports strategy coming out, but it needed to come from that. So we very much put sports front and centre. And I suppose the other areas we work in are independence, empowerment, accessibility, and mobility. And that can range from an approved housing body to a million hours of personal assistance services to 2,000 people supported in day services, 170, 137 buses for transport, driving schools, and a myriad, I think. I'd be here all day describing it. But in terms of the sport, so you know, working with Nikki and the team to look at it, and I suppose the classic one recently and is still very live, is the transfer of boccia from uh Paralympics Ireland into IWA sport, which we're really excited about. Um it fits, it's a really, it's a really interesting sport, it's a precision sport, and it's a real strategy sport, and it was designed to accommodate people with a higher um support sport requirements. Really difficult sport, really difficult sport. Um and I suppose we've been working with Paralympics, Ireland, with their team, myself and Nikki, with their team over that period and with the board, our board, about how can we bring Botcha on safely, appropriately, because we want to do it properly. We're not about just with another another list of sports onto our list. That's we weren't doing that. We we have ambition, but we also need to make sure it's sustainable. I suppose um there's been a lot of work on transition committees, but ultimately we trans we uh signed that signed the piece of paper just before Christmas, um and we're now bringing transitioning the previous organization, which is Botcha Ireland under Paralympics Ireland, in as under an IWA sport. So that kind of strategic piece, looking at what we need, what's the supports, and working with with Nikki in relation to that. So I will I will meet obviously from a sports, I meet Nikki on a monthly basis. So this um operational side, there's all the massive amount of home events, international events, but also like every NGB, there's the safeguarding, there's the um you know, Wada, there's coach education, there's volunteers, we've 20 clubs, you know. Um, so I'm lucky that I have a phenomenal team who do pretty much all the heavy lifting. And I suppose I'm there to support, and obviously argue on the funding side, which on all of our areas is an ongoing challenge, as every organization has. So it's where can we go and where can we make the most impact?

SPEAKER_02 30:27

And I'm sure that those monthly agendas always include a little bit of chat about Mead's uh Gaelic games as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, there's a lot of Meads. See, I live in Mead as well. Yeah. Um, so and my daughter um played underage um for me. So yes, there's uh there's usually, and you know, and the interesting thing is when um so Dr. Oliver Murphy, our founder, who's 90, who, as I describe, is a force of nature, he is from Loudh.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

So when Loudhe beat meade last year in the Leinster final.

Funding Pressures And Big Priorities

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Okay. That was that that was an enjoyable conversation on one side of the conversation. I must admit I've known Nikki for 15 years and we've always kind of held the upper hand. I'm a Dublin fan, so I've given him a harder time perhaps than I that I might have. I think it could be bad this year. Well, me, Division One now. Division one in the men's, division one in the ladies, Dublin, division two in the men's. I know, but uh, we'll bounce back. But it's but it's good to have that level of competition. Let's just take a short break there, tell you a little bit more about Sport for Business. You can find out everything that you need at sportforbusiness.com. We have a collection of membership options. The highest level is with our partners, and we are indebted to them for their continued support. They include Alliance, AIB, AIG, LEDL, PWC, Sky Ireland, KPMG, SSC Electricity, Dublin City Council, and Sport Ireland. And each of those contributes in their own way to the content that we produce on a daily basis and indeed to these podcasts. This interview is all about leadership, and these are the partners with whom we put ourselves forward to assist others in leading in the world of sport and business. Now, let's get back to our interview. Let me let me let me uh d ask you in terms of priorities for you as a CEO in in in 2026. You've touched upon the you know the pillars, the importance of all of those, but what are the what are the things that are that are first on your list when you come into the office in the morning?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

From an organizational perspective. So uh funding has to be there. You know, so we're 65 years here across all our elements. It's more challenging, you know, with few protests going on at the moment, you know, that's that's massive from our perspective, both both from our costs. But actually, we've we've personal assistants who have to travel around. Their costs have just gone off the rich to scale. And ultimately, if we don't have personal assistance, we can't provide services. And that we can't serve the people we are there to serve. So across the board, yes, every chief exec has the money is the money because otherwise we can't have the impact. Yeah, and we have a massive ambition. Um, this year we are about to launch our strategy. We have very much moved it from, we're calling it a strategy of ambition and impact. And we are moved from kind of functional areas to very much how are we making the impact. So I that that is a big piece, and ultimately prioritizing what under that we are prioritizing. So with a massive digital transformation to enable things, to support things. Um, and each area has key priorities within that. So it's tried to ensure that we are not killing ourselves. We are, in terms of workload, unfortunately, because people are so passionate, they we all go, we need to prioritize. Yeah, and then we keep adding extra things on because the ambition is there. So that um and the third thing is really about partnerships. We it's not IWA on their own. The advocacy isn't IWA on their own. There we did a piece on cost of disability recently. There were wide broad partnerships. We led it, yeah, but we pulled in others. Same on the sports side, that that sports participation, we're not doing that in our own.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Like the VLP hub has been a great idea. You know, so how do we achieve what we want? And I think maybe back organizations back 20, 30 years ago, but it's also nobody, you know. Sure. It's not that now. It's how do we, where do we want to go? And we've our our mission is like where people in our vision is where people enjoy equal rights, choices, and opportunities and how they live their lives, and where our country is a model worldwide for inclusive society. That's huge. Yeah. We're not doing that in our own. So partnerships, meaningful partnerships that make a difference, are really for me where a lot of my work is going. Where's our opportunities? Where can we work with and there's such good people out there?

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

And sport can be a big part of that as well.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Whether it be in the conversation. So you personally, as a sporting person, you can have a conversation that might kick off on sport, but then rolling.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

And that always happens. You start with one, and I suppose curiosity is one of the things that I'm that I'm always just interested. Even if it's just random and has nothing to do with what I'm doing, I'm just interested in what people are doing. But sometimes you have that conversation which has nothing to do with anything, you think, and then a little nuggets, and you go, hang on a second.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

And then you connect. So, for example, we're talking about sports participation. How do we get people to know we're here? Social prescribing health service has social prescribers. I was going, if I make contact with them and say, Do you know about IWA and disability sport? No. But you are getting individuals coming through to you who are socially isolated, um, who you know don't know what to do, whatever. Could we brief you on this so that it's another group that potentially could pick up an individual, an adult or a child? So that's it's because but I I knew about social prescribing, it just wasn't on my radar. And then I was chatting with somebody who mentioned it, and I went, hang on. Yeah, we need to be, we're trying to shift this style. So for me, it's lots of conversations.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

And isn't it great to be able to reach out to offer somebody something which is going to help them to do their job better? So you're not going asking for something.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

No, no, and a lot of it, that's the thing, it's the collaborations. And for me, one of my strengths is my connections with other people over the years because we've all worked together and collaborated in a positive light. You can pick up a phone, and the way I contacted social prescribers, I picked up a person, picked up a phone, and a person said, Remember, you were talking to me about five years ago about social prescribing. Who would I ring?

unknown 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And you've immediately got it in. So that I would see my job in this organization is nearly air traffic control. Where are priorities? What do we need to be working on? How can we connect? How can we leverage? How can we impact better?

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Yeah. And those are the kind of relationships and memories and connections that you're not going to get from scrolling on your phone. So you've got to be out there.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

And and a huge number of them are, if you when you actually start talking about it, the first conversation is something about sport.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

You know, I think sport connects that, you know, a lot of people, like a lot of our team here, they've talked about communications, people are doing marathons, people are doing this, people are playing G8. The connection starts with that, and then you end up with a quite a business conversation.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Yeah. Not many of them competing internationally in kickboxing, but I guess you can work. I guess you you found a way to work that into the conversation. Um, can I ask you?

SPEAKER_00 38:15

It's just an excuse to go away to Italy and England and all the rest of the year.

Collaborative Leadership In Practice

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Oh, I'll go I go to Italy at the drop of a hat for anything. The the the the style of leadership that you've either had attributed to you or that you consider yourself, but sometimes that can be a little bit more difficult. You mentioned when the recruiter came to talk to you about this role, there will have been something in that conversation which was like a mirror being held up to you to tell you what your style of leadership is. Can you summarize or can you encapsulate what that might be?

SPEAKER_00 38:49

It's I find this question a really hard one. Sure. I suppose it's probably about collaboration. It's that collaborative leader that's that empowerment. So years back, I was I did a leadership course, and on the first day, someone said, Your job is to, as leaders, is to identify people who are better than you and brighter than you, grab them by the scruff of the neck and throw them past you. And that has stuck, that was 20, that was 2000. That's has stuck with me ever since. So I love creating, um, as in you know, things that make impact. But for me, it's about respect, everybody's an individual, they do things different ways, that's perfectly good. How do I support them? How do I nearly like a coaching kind of leadership? Having said that, there are times where you have to shift that leadership style into a more directive style, and you know, and and that's really important. You can't be the warm fuzzy because that's that's not the business, that's not the job. And I think part of my leadership side is quite fact-based. Um, you know, what what's the what's the detail on this? What's the analysis of this? That doesn't make any sense. How does that work? So I'd be quite fact-based, but questioning in terms, and I hope what people say about me is that I I suppose I'm a I'm an extrovert, I probably formulate things by talking through. I'm not great on a piece of blank piece of paper on my own. I will iterate with a person and get that energy from working with people. So I think that questioning, coaching, clarifying, and then coming to a shared kind of solution. But it really is it again back to that people empowerment, collaboration. And it's not me as the CEO, it's the right people in the room. And I might be if I if I'm just literally asking the questions, yeah. Because especially in an organization this side, I can't I can't know it. And even if I didn't know it all today, it'll be different tomorrow. Yeah. So getting the right people, and again, I have a phenomenal team all the way down to the frontline staff, all the way to the zenium manager. They're incredible.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Yeah, very noticeable, even walking in through reception today, just as a genuine sense of what can I do to help you.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

It and it it it has struck me, and they talk about personal-centred, it's thrown around a lot, particularly in the health service and things like that. It genuinely is, and I see that within, you know, a member might want to do XOY, and you're thinking, how on earth we're gonna do that? Okay, let's. And the teams on the ground will be problem-solving like that all the time. But it is a energy that is it's like a secret sauce. Like, we're the this last year we were the second best employer in Ireland in the Sunday Independent. Now, when I took on this role, we were the fourth. Okay, and I was going, how on earth does an organization that is across 26 counties has 65 different centers? 1,500 don't even have a base, they work in people's homes. How on earth is an organization like that got a culture that is that strong? And it is going the extra mile. And I suppose people see the difference in impact. Even the nice thing is our central services see that, and on the Clonctarf campus here, we have a representation of all of our services. We have day service, we've housing, we've um holiday services. So we're bumping into people all the time. And what we also do with strong values, fun is a very important one, which sport deals with in spades. Okay, but one of the things we do is we talk about the values and examples of the values. So we hear of the impact. So at a management team and a board, we talk about an example of when the values were shown, and we hear about those small things that make a massive difference. So we are centrally, you can you potentially could be quite disconnected, but we know the difference that somebody in creditors makes to somebody's life. Okay. And I think that connection it drives a huge amount of energy and a huge amount of passion. The danger about that is you know, people get quite tired because there's a huge amount. So that's one of my roles is to try and how do we balance that that we don't take advantage of that? But the stories you hear every day, you're like, oh my goodness. And the buzz and the energy is you just couldn't bottle it.

Quickfire Personal Stories And Habits

SPEAKER_02 43:51

And and being able to listen and then amplify those little stories as well, that's leadership. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. Well, you Was a tough question, but you answered it very well. My younger son said to me today that calm waters doesn't make for good sailors. Uh yeah, exactly. You've reached into that. Um it's it's great talking to you about it, and it's great to see the impact that the organisation is having. Um uh to bring us home on this on this particular path, uh I've got a I've got a series of questions that I'd like to ask, which might just get to know a little bit more about Anne-Marie the person, as opposed to Anne-Marie the leader. Um so so if you're okay with that, I'm going to uh I'm gonna kick off. Um they're they're they're not simple yes or no answers. Okay. You can be as expansive as you like, but you can also be as quick as you like. So um we've talked a lot about sport and your own personal uh engagement in it. Um we glossed over the fact that you're a goalkeeper in hockey, which a goalkeeper in hockey, the same as in Kamogi or in hurling, betrays something of a loose nut somewhere in somewhere in the head. But what was what's a a first memory or an early memory you have from childhood that involves sport?

SPEAKER_00 45:09

This is interesting, and you just talked about the hockey. My first memory is of being in school and we played hockey, uh, you know, kick around it or hit around it at lunch. And there was always a row about who was not playing goalkeeper. And we only had whatever, 45 minutes for lunch, and this would go on a gang of girls for ages, and I just started saying, I'll do it. Now, I also wasn't the most skilled of a hockey player, so it was kind of a I'll do it. So I ended up volunteering into that just for the kick around, and then ended up getting on the team because the other thing was is they all had to wear skirts. Okay, and I could wear a tracksuit in the middle of winter. Underneath all of your padding and underneath all of my padding, and everybody else says you're very brave as a goalkeeper. And I'm going, they've got a little skirt of a gum shield and shingards. Who's the brave person here, lads? And who's allegedly we're crazy? No, no, no, no, we're not the crazy ones. We've got all the gear. Yeah. So that started me on a path to goalkeeper. Now I'm five foot one, so I think I'm the shortest international goalkeeper that Ireland has produced. Okay. Um, but that brought me on a path of loving it. And it probably is, I'm not necessarily the most finessey type individual, which is probably relating to some of the sports I've chosen. Um, but I'm pretty courageous and can you know throw your body on the line type of things.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

You put yourself into the positions that others would shy away from. That's a good thing. And the goals in hockey are smaller anyway, so absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

And I have a stick I can reach up. It's true. I'm also not I've also discovered that because I had to do some running, long running in-gear for for hockey, for international hockey training or Team Ireland training. I don't do long runs. Okay. So like I'm better over about three meters. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

It comes back to finding the time as well.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

It's much shorter, much bigger.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yeah. It takes up much less time. Um, give me a sporting event anywhere in the world that you would love to see yourself at over the course of the next couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Well, I was incredibly fortunate when I started two years ago that it was 2024. And so it was Olympic-Palalympic cycle. And I ended up with Nikki going over for three days to the Paralympic Games. We ran around Paris.

SPEAKER_04 47:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

It was the most incredible thing. So I would say a multi-sport event, Olympics or Paralympics. Just seeing the variety of what fitness is that like from a shot putter to a basketball player, like the physiques, the skill sets, the and I love any like Paralympics or Olympics, you suddenly become, if you're sitting watching at home, you suddenly become an expert on badminton that you had no knowledge of. Um there, and she ended up coming fourth, PB'd off the scale. And I really hadn't been at all familiar with power powerlifting before. It's my new favourite sport, it is the most dramatic. And you talk about sprinters saying they train for four years for 10 seconds, it's probably two seconds. Yeah. And the drama and the control and the tactics, it's just box office. And I wouldn't have thought it. So um I think a multi those multi-sport paralympics Olympics would be oh, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Okay. And we'll narrow it down, we'll say the world powerlifting championships. Power lifting.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Yes, power powerlifting, yeah. Perfect. And in fact, we are tracking, we've got an increased number of people than they're they were over in uh Tbilisi for Worlds, PBing all over. So they are tracking really well. So it's phenomenal to see.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

And Brittany is an absolute ray of sunshine as well, don't she?

SPEAKER_00 49:24

And she just back um came back and she bronze medaled at the world. So she is fab.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Great. And a great leader for to show others coming through, particularly the women. I remember uh bumping into Pam Cavaneth on your marketing and commsite over in Paris that day. And I think she was getting ready, I think it was going to be her first sort of day off for three weeks. And then she said, No, but our CEO is coming over, so I'm going to have to meet her and I'm going to bring her around. But she's cool, so it'll be okay. So you're yeah, you that that's probably part of the culture as well. Um, okay, a couple of uh a couple of shorter, snappier ones. Tea or coffee? Tea. Tea, okay. That's the me thing you, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty much guessing. Uh Netflix night in or a night out of the movies?

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Probably Netflix in just happened in the movies age, but if it's a Bond movie, it's absolutely in cinema.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Okay. Who's who's going to be the new James Bond?

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Um, I don't know. Four or five million dollar question.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah, kickboxer, hockey goalkeeper. Maybe we need a female James Bond. Maybe you could go for that.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Not all now.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Okay. Um tell me a trait that you think that you have.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

I think it's probably come through in the c it's curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

Okay, it's my favorite one as well.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

I used to call it nosy, but someone says it sounds much better being coming at curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Okay, and we'll say that you would admire that in others as well, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I really also admire people who can ask good questions and get to the nub of things, you know, and just I really that brain power, you know, to ask empathetic questions and just tease out stuff that's narrowly and find a way through that. I really, you know, admire that.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Because the answer is always in there somewhere. It just needs finding.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

What you see as the problem is never the problem. It's somewhere else. And if we solve the problem that presents, we're solving a wrong problem.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

So if we're to solve, and I I hate wasting time, I hate lack of meaning and stuff. But if we're doing it do it properly, it may be a little bit longer, but it will be shorter in the long term because you'll do it, you'll solve the problem that it needs. And problem, and I think in a leadership role, the stuff that's easy doesn't come to me. Because the teams know it, like it's done. It's it's done. So the things that come to myself and the management team are stuff that's that's tricky, that's there is no right or wrong answer. It's somewhere in the middle, and and you have to navigate that. And I think that's probably one thing I think I'm pretty good at is trying to create an environment where we can people can articulate their bits because if we don't know what everybody's thinking, we won't get the right result and feel comfortable enough and safe enough to say, well, I completely disagree with you on that, because Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Okay. Once it's fact-based. Evidence-based.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Evidence and fact-based, but it's important to say it's okay to somebody say, I feel something's wrong here, but I'm not sure what it is.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Because there's a fact behind that, but I think it's also important to say this might be people's fee would feel they would be really upset about this. Okay. But what go back then is what would they be upset? And so that general feeling, okay, tease into it.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

What is the problem? Well, actually, they'd be worried about X. Okay, well, that isn't a worry, and we can clarify that matter. So now, if we've done that, what's okay? No, we're not as upset or we're not as yeah, concerned. So that teasing in, but unless somebody says, actually, I think people be upset about that, we'll just barrel on. Yeah. So it's really important. I'm really fortunate with a management team, really different, really different styles, really different personalities, really different skill sets, all excellent at their jobs. So bringing that in is crucial. We won't have the greatest impact without hearing those voices and not shutting them down. So there is always facts underneath, but you have to articulate the feelings.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Yeah. So being able to read the room, I guess, and and the wider room out there if people are only representing it. Um, what makes you laugh?

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Do you know what makes me laugh? Yeah, you know, the observational comedy. So I'm thinking, and I'm getting them on my reels, you know. Uh my algorithms are at the moment retrievers, Bernie's mountain dogs, and uh, and some Irish comedians. So Rory Stories, when you're talking about a dad not letting his daughter out to the to late at night, and then he's handed her money. You know, the stupid stuff that's happening in every family. Charlotte Regan would be the same about the mammies and the behaviours, and you're thinking, that is my mother, but I'm just wondering, is it me as well? Okay, you know, those type of obs are the Alamarrell very funny, and even what makes me laugh at the moment, the off-load podcast with Tommy and Donica, they're just like don't ignore the rugby. It's the I got in the wrong train or I forgot to pick up my kids. And it's just joy, you know, stupid stuff.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

That's that's actually normal, but we don't. The comedians are very good at pointing out what and when normal is actually a bit daft.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yeah, I'd say Donica is probably the one non-comedian who features most frequently on this as being an absolute comedian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Oh, he is hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

And he tells it against himself all the time.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

All of the time. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

That's my joy. I'm dying for I the offload podcast in terms of a joy. Okay. Bad day, put it on, you know there's gonna be God knows what drivel.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Yeah. But it's hilarious. Okay. Um what would you listen to in the car or on the bike or whatever when you're out for a walk? What do you what do you like listening to?

SPEAKER_00 55:53

It'd be podcasts. Okay. Yeah, and I suppose back in COVID when it was literally news, I used to be news, news, news, news days. And about six months into COVID, I went, I can't handle this anymore. I'm moved to the podcast. Majority would be sport or health. A few bits of business. I'm always looking for a new one, you know. Uh, but I just, you know, yeah, just whatever's going.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Um, what did you do yesterday is a comedy one that I just drop into every now and again as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

That's good. I'm always looking for a new one.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Very, very funny. Very, very funny. Um, combination of English, Irish, Australian, all sorts of uh mix and match in there as well. Um are you a reader?

SPEAKER_00 56:35

I I love reading. I'm I don't get a lot of time. I I do mindless reading on the crime side, and I couldn't even tell you what what the current book I'm reading. And then I try to read, I'll probably try and pick up audiobooks as I'm more likely to consume them of it. But at the moment I've um I've started back on atomic habits. Okay. Um, because my two kids, so one's 18 and one's 21, actually had been reading that, and they're not particular readers, but they were getting into it, and it's funny. I have read it before. But when you start reading it again, you go, yeah, I've slipped away from all of those really, really good behaviours. Yeah, and so that's my current non-fiction, and then I have a mind calming, crying, type, non-brain requiring.

Dream Dinner Guests And Closing

SPEAKER_02 57:27

We need, we always we always need those, all right. Um, okay, let me let me wrap it up by by giving you a table in a very fancy or just a very chilled restaurant. It could be a beach cabana in Plontaff, it could be chapter one, it could be so a restaurant in town, and there's four places around the table. You're sitting in one of them. Okay. There's three other spaces, not related to them. So no family as such. You've said how much you love your husband, so we'll give we'll give him the day off. She's got the evening off. But uh but they can be dead or alive, they can be sporting, political, male, female, anything you like. Who would you love to have around the table with you?

SPEAKER_00 58:10

My first would be Paul O'Connell.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

So I normally don't I don't get uh star struck on anything, but Paul O'Connell and Starstruck on. Absolutely. I just think his leadership, his his book was so honest. I've heard him speak a couple of times, that whole control the controllables, but also sometimes being miserable when actually things are good. He's yeah. Uh and he's funny. Great, you know, so so that'll be good. Um second would be probably Professor Luke O'Neill. Okay. So obviously, we saw a lot of him over COVID. Uh, what I love about him is his curiosity. He is so enthusiastic about everything. He's got a really positive energy, he's really funny. He's also been a band, so he might get a bit of music as well.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

But he's an eclectic, I'd say, as a dinner companion, just sit back and be, and I think he'd work well. And third one I love to meet would be Jacinta Arden, Premier of New Zealand, ex-premier of New Zealand, young woman going into a premiership in the first place, small kids, baby juring, um, middle COVID, and then she had the terrorist attack, her ability to do the job, complex job, her humanity, her clarity, her leadership, her connection to people. Like she was like stellar in the in the world in terms of that period. And also I was really struck for when she said, I'm stepping back because I don't believe I can I have the energy to give a situation. I mean, she could have kept going, she would have kept getting real, like, you know, she could have just marked up as well. But she went, no. You know, I she just I don't I you don't know her obviously, but she would be really interesting. But she seems like a really good human.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

It takes a woman, I guess, to crack that old metaphor that all political careers end in failure.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She went, I'm out of here because I don't believe she and she wouldn't have failed. She would have been perfect, but she would have, she said, I can't give it what it needs to take, so I'm gonna let somebody else like that. That's a courageous piece.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

I've I've had the pleasure of meeting Luke and Paul, um, and they both do live up to your expectations. And a a previous guest on the podcast is uh a lady from New Zealand called Michelle Walsh, who has just um been nominated or just been involved in two Emmy nominations for the Arden documentary, which is coming out. So all of these small little circles, yeah, uh which all make up into the big one. Well, hopefully in a couple of years' time I'll be interviewing somebody and I'll say that I had the pleasure of meeting Emory O'Gray, who was the CEO of the Irish Wheelchair Association. Thanks very much for taking the time. Um if uh if anybody wants to get involved and and help out, then the IWA as an organization does make an impact in people's lives and uh and is well worth investing some of the 168 hours that we all have in the week. So, Amory, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

You're very welcome. Thanks for asking me to come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

We will be continuing this series in the coming weeks and reaching out and bringing the voice, the thoughts, and the leadership, thoughts and ideas of Ireland's sporting CEOs to you on the Sport for Business podcast. There'll be plenty more as well. We've got big events coming up on sport and creativity and AI in sport, which I'm pretty sure are going to be full houses and with a full complement of really great speakers to bring both of those subjects to life. Thanks very much to you for taking the time out to listen to the Sport for Business Podcast. SportForbusiness.com is where we produce our daily content. And if you've enjoyed this, you can subscribe to our podcasts wherever you get your podcast from, including on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify. Thanks very much, and have a great rest of your day.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

It's been 60.