Imperfect Marketing
Imperfect Marketing
262: Why Your Small Business Website Might Be Costing You Customers with Guest Lindy Nowak
Kendra talks Imperfect Marketing with Lindy Nowak, founder of Up in a Day, a service that delivers affordable, professional websites designed for small businesses. With a background in corporate marketing and creative direction for companies like L’Oreal and Bon Appétit, Lindy transitioned into entrepreneurship and now specializes in helping small business owners establish a strong online presence.
Topics covered in today’s conversation include:
- Key website mistakes that small businesses make—and how to avoid them
- Strategies for making your website user-friendly and accessible
- Tips on messaging that instantly connects with your audience
- How to decide if your website needs an overhaul
- Alternative marketing channels that have worked for Up in a Day
Join Kendra every Tuesday and Thursday as she discusses how to make progress and grow through Imperfect Marketing.
You can find Lindy Nowak:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindy-nowak/
Up in a Day website: https://upinaday.co/
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Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. I'm your host, kendra Korman, and today I'm really excited to be joined by Lindy Nowak, and she is going to be talking with us about websites today. Welcome, lindy. Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, Kendra. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:So I'm excited to hear your story. So you were in New York working for L'Oreal. You started your own thing more than six years ago now. So how did you get started on your own and working on websites?
Speaker 2:I was in New York City, as you mentioned, for many years. I was actually in corporate for about 12, 13 years and I started at L'Oreal and I worked there for many years. I then transitioned into the agency world and moved to Brazil randomly and I worked at an agency there, actually on the L'Oreal account, and then fast forward, I moved back to New York and I found myself in publishing and I was the creative director at a lot of magazines Bon Appetit, Women's Health Magazine, Entertainment Weekly and my husband and I got an opportunity to move to Miami and I had always wanted to move to Miami. I had always wanted to start my own business and I never had. It was never the right time to just stop what I was doing in corporate and just start your own business, especially in New York city. Um, I was doing really well at the time, but something was just like itching at me for so many years to start my own company. I actually come from a family of entrepreneurs of more or less 35, 40 of us between my mom's side and my dad's side. I was the only one that went corporate. Everybody's an entrepreneur. So when we moved to Miami, I said, okay, well, I'm liking this. This is like there. There wasn't a lot of opportunities to move into the corporate world in Miami and I just found myself sitting there being like, okay, well, is this the time? And I started doing a lot of freelancing through my network in New York City. I finally rolled into basically starting a digital marketing company, a very small one. I called it Lino Creative.
Speaker 2:And what was happening is, while we were doing, well, we started getting a lot of referrals coming to us, a lot of small business owners, a lot of solopreneurs desperate for a website. Yesterday, and while we were building websites, we were building big websites, Shopify, big Squarespace sites and I sat back one day and I was like, oh my gosh, why isn't there a turnkey solution for small business owners, for one to three people, shops to be able to get an awesome professional website built without the headache, the long wait times, the high costs, et cetera, a website that really works for their business? And I started marinating on it and started talking to a lot of people and one day it just clicked. I said, oh my gosh, well, you know you, you go through those motions when you're creating a.
Speaker 2:You know you're going on your own and deciding. You know what do you love, what do you do best, what you know what can be fruitful for you and what is the meaning of success. And I said, wow, we are building a lot of websites and we build them so fast. We build them literally. We can do some of these in a day If we just cut down and build simple websites. And then it was like that here we are up in a day, Okay, it's up in a day, and then the rest is history.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, cause I think that there's a lot of people that the tech side and the website and the email that side holds them back from leaving corporate, and so the fact that you can make that easily accessible to people is just amazing, and I think that it takes away a barrier that people have manufactured not the right word but have in front of them before they start their own business. So that's awesome and I love your story. Thank you so much for sharing, because I think that there's a lot of people in those positions that are like, okay, there's never a good time, no, which is awesome. So talk to me about some of the main problems that you've seen with small businesses and their website or online presence.
Speaker 2:When I started up, in a day I did a lot of research, I talked to a lot of people, a lot of small business owners, obviously, and I started hearing a very common term and phrase, which was it's too expensive. My developer disappeared. I don't know where to go, so I ended up trying to do it myself, or hire my friend's daughter to build my website, my friend's daughter to build my website. And so that's the commonality of honestly, as a small business owner like, where do you go? Like, where do you go? You go to a large agency that takes months and months and, you know, charges $20,000 for a website that is too big or you don't need, or you don't know how to use Um. So so that's really where I started realizing that there's, there was a huge gap in the market to be a trusted source to truly help small businesses build or get an online presence.
Speaker 2:And you know, having a website, um, while it seems daunting and it tends to be the last thing on your to-do list, because of that um, it, it really is the driver of your business. I mean, if you, if you get a really great website, whether you're in the service industry, you're selling products off every website. However, your website is working for you. Today. People are checking you out by your website. We were we've been working with a lot of chiropractors lately and we find that they're getting their clients from referrals, so they're hearing about them, or somebody is shopping around online and they're looking at different chiropractors in their area and perceptions unfortunately, for everything. So you know you're looking at a website that is really outdated and you're not trusting it. You're probably not going to trust that chiropractor with your back either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause you're like that's how they take care of their website, that that how they're going to take care of me, so yeah, so all right. So doing too much of the just hiring random people that you haven't checked out because you're not sure where to go, and $20,000 in the startup budget, right? So those are definitely some issues and misconceptions that you've been hearing and I can tell you I've heard all of them before. The other thing I hear a lot is time. That's probably the number one issue, right, because some people are going to be starting their website while they're still employed, because they're getting ready to go out on their own right and they want to be ready as soon as they leave the job that they have. Some people they're out going website building, right, and coding and stuff like that. How does up in a day help, or how do you propose that people help and work with a time constraint issue?
Speaker 2:I totally understand and when I decided to call up in a day, up in a day, like, yes, we build websites in a day. For some people they need them, like tech startups, but others it's really about not having to nitpick and wait for the website to be built. And on top of that, I think what tends to take so long is honestly gathering your content, your copy, and as business owners, especially small business owners, we're wearing so many hats and we're kind of stressed and we need to hire people or we have so many things going on. And when we start to think about what we want to say on our website, we get in our own way and we either say too little or we say too much. So how do we know what is supposed to be on our website? And that is on the client side. That can be the time constraint. Just to start, just thinking about it is overwhelming, right? So we had to fill that. We had to have an answer for that as well. Like it will make it as easy as possible for you.
Speaker 2:So what we do is we for all of our clients coming in if they have a new business, so they need a brand new website and they don't have an existing one that needs a revamp, which is easy because we can just take the copy off. We help them to devise their copy with a. It's like a. It's a copy document that we created. Basically, that is more or less like a questionnaire, but it's very specific and it's very tailored to specific industries, having built so many websites in those industries and common trends of how people actually use websites today on desktop and mobile. It allows the business owner or client to be able to think about it, digest. Okay, now I can write the copy for it. It just makes it much easier, um, when they're thinking about their copy and writing it for us. We have copywriters too, so that's also very helpful.
Speaker 1:So I liked what you were saying about. We have a tendency to overthink it. It's too little, it's too much. My favorites when I'm writing a copy for a landing page for my business and my assistant, which I tell her flat out, I'm like, all right, I want to see back time. And she's like what does this even mean? I'm like but it sounds really cool. And she's like, no, it doesn't mean anything. But it sounds really cool and she's like, no, it doesn't mean anything. So do you, uh, do you work with people to help push back when they're coming up with, um, words and phrases that may not mean anything to anybody but them?
Speaker 2:Yes, we definitely do. We. Here's an example we have a client, uh, that just came through the door and now she's launched. But she came to us, she's a consultant and she, you know, we get like I said, we get in our own way. And so we gave her the document to fill out and it came back like 50 pages. It's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2:Okay, let us help you, because typically what we'll do is we'll pull it apart because we know where to put the right messaging with the right headlines and the taglines and the paragraph copy, the everything else that people need to know, because people are skimming websites. But if we get like a lot of copy, then, yes, we'll consult with them, we'll talk with them and we'll make suggestions. And it really helps them to dial back what they want to say and just get to the bottom line, up front and just keep it super simple. And there's another.
Speaker 2:So, with this client, when she gave us like so much copy, what we told her is like okay, well, let's, let's dial it back, let's give us one headline, one subhead, one sentence and then maybe an additional sentence and then give us five bullets. And she was like ah, okay, great, got it. And I said don't delete anything you have, because that was such a beautiful exercise to go through for your business. It's a brand new business. Look at all of this marketing copy that you have now. So if you, if you are devising your own copy for your website and you're just like, oh my God, that's like so much, don't let it go to waste.
Speaker 1:You can use it in multiple channels, um, throughout the life cycle of your, of your launch when I created the google with all the words in it and everything like that, she'd be like I like this. Later and we put it at the bottom. We just kept it at the bottom of the document and those phrases came back. Those bullet points came back. That content came back in different places, maybe in emails, maybe in social posts most part of the content, um, just in a different way. So I like that.
Speaker 1:You suggested do not delete everything you just wrote, cause it's not a bad thing to have extra Um. You just gotta know how you're working online and people are skimming websites. So less is more, um. I love um how Donald Miller of um story brand says you know, um? Actually I think it's JJ Peterson who said it. He said our, our minds are meant to preserve calories in case we have to run from a lion later. So you can't make people think too hard. So if people are thinking, when they're reading your headline, um, and your sub headline and any of your body copy and they don't know what to do, their brain's going to tell them not to waste their time, and so that that's really important for what you're doing in focusing people on more direct things. So if somebody has a website right now. They're maybe not happy with it. They know it needs looked at. What are a couple of things that they should look for to determine whether or not it needs an overhaul by someone like you guys?
Speaker 2:First thing, if they have access, check your analytics. Second, are you embarrassed by it? Then yes, are you? Because the website you should be so proud of and you should just be putting that out there to everybody. The third I would say if you can separate yourself from the business and look at your website for the first time, or ask a friend to do it, and give them five seconds seven max reading this website, do you understand what we do, what we offer and who we offer it to and how to get it? Those questions, what do you do? Who is it for? Maybe some pain points. So you're relating and attracting. And then, how do I get it? And how do I get it right now, and just making it as easy as that super strategic.
Speaker 1:Because we are, you know, if it's old, been in it for three years, it's actually worse because you know if it's old, you've been in it for for three years. It's actually worse because you know again, it's our baby. Right? We've built this from the ground up. We get really tied to every word, every comma, every headline, every color, every image, every, everything, right? Um, and you've got to take that pride of authorship out of there, right? And make sure, is it achieving what I want it to do? So for startups, for people that are on their own or looking to revamp their website, we'll say they do services. What's the goal of the website overall? Is it to get business? Is it to get a consultation? Is it just brand building, brochure style? What are you seeing right now? Right?
Speaker 2:now I'm seeing the website as the final marketing tool, the conversion tool, where you have you've attracted your now website visitors. They're coming to your website warm because of all of the marketing you've done to bring them into the website, whether it's on LinkedIn or other social media channels, or if there's a referral network, partner partnerships that you're running or at an event, for example, people are gonna go to your website to find out more and I guess the question is what do you want them to do? Is it signing up for a newsletter? That's a sales funneling technique that you're utilizing right now. Your website could certainly have that as its primary method of purpose. Second, signing up for a consultation.
Speaker 2:If you're in the service business, asking making it very easy for somebody to book on a calendar or fill out a form, or it could just be as easy if you're a restaurant owner, calling for pickup, delivery or reservation, and just making it as easy as possible for someone to get to your site and make that contact with you. I would say, for those who are in a business where a website is more educational, for example, and not necessarily in need of a monetary conversion of any source, then you know, just making your website beautiful and professional and modern and easy to use, especially on mobile, for everybody, your website should be very easy and very easy to use on mobile, absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right. So I want to point out to everybody listening or watching Lindy said the word easy about a hundred times maybe not, but that's really. That's the key word there, though, right, I mean if. If it's not easy to see who you are, what you do, who you serve and figure out how to work with you, then what's the point? Right, people? We are in an Amazon immediate gratification culture and so people want their next day delivery. Um, I ordered some stuff yesterday from Amazon and it came before 10 o'clock this morning.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I'm like I I was in a rush and nobody carried it locally. I went to four stores yesterday. Um so anyway. But easy is everybody wants that. That staples easy button right. And if you guys remember those old commercials where they hit the easy button, you got to look at your website and see how easy is it to do. You've got a lot of messages, you got a lot to share. No one cares. They get to the point. Give them the option. They can keep scrolling and reading if that's their style, right. So if you had to say what are, let's say, the top three things that you think all websites need, other than being easy to use on mobile, that's not. What are the top three things that most websites need? What are the top three things that most websites need? The?
Speaker 2:first thing, outside of mobile, that websites need, I would say, is messaging that connects with your audience. It is not about you. We get in our own way, it is all about them. Like you're investing in a website, you're investing in a website, you're investing money in it, you're investing in that one other channel that's really speaking to your ideal clientele or customer. So your messaging is key.
Speaker 2:The second, I would say, keeping it simple, stupid. Again, just making sure that you're highlighting key points. Again, I guess that's back to messaging, because I'm so big on messaging on your website. It's so important and it's like the hardest thing ever, but when it's good it works. And then the third just making it very easy for anyone to make that contact with you and making sure that whatever that call to action is that you are asking someone to do on your website, it is consistent throughout your website. So, for example, you always want to say book a consultation, book a consultation, book a consultation, as opposed to get started with me or contact me and then book a consultation and they all take you to the same place.
Speaker 2:That causes confusion. So the moment you cause confusion on your website again back to Donald Miller people bounce and they're going to bounce because they are especially in the holiday season. We're crazy. We have so many things going on and we're all trying to hit our numbers for Q4. We're thinking about Q1. We have family, we have gifts, we have travel and people are spending their last marketing dollars for Q4. I mean, your website is the one let's get them. Get people in there, get people to understand what you offer Is it for them? And making it really easy for them to take that action.
Speaker 1:All right. So I'm going to be a broken record for all of you that have tuned into more than like two episodes of imperfect marketing. Call and talk to your target audience. Understand the messaging that's going to resonate with them, right? You're not there walking them through it. It's not a PowerPoint that you're speaking to. They have to be able to read it and understand it. And again, it's all about them. I love that, lindy, love, love, love that, because it is true, it's all about them.
Speaker 1:If you have a lot of eyes on your homepage, I do this, we do that. No, nobody cares, right? What's the problem you're solving? What are you doing for them? How can you help that person that's there as a visitor? I love that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:So, your website we've talked about how important your website is for you and your business, that it is not something that should be costing you an arm and a leg and several months of work. You want to make it as easy as possible. You want to make sure that that messaging is strong. And again, the easy button here, right? We want it to be really easy for people to work with you. So this has been an awesome conversation. Hopefully, everybody is going to go and take a look at their website and see what they think of it, because we're all busy, right, so you haven't looked at it in how long? What link is broken? What information can't you find, and is it truly easy to work with you? Very important things, especially headed into the holiday season. But before I let you go, lindy, there's a question that I asked all my guests, and that is this show is called Imperfect Marketing, because marketing is anything but a perfect science. What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned along the way?
Speaker 2:I would say running Google ads not once, but three times. It's like it's so easy to run Google ads because it's just the quick, easy button to just say I'll just run Google ads and you try all kinds of messaging, you hire people, you hire agencies, you try to do it yourself. Ultimately, for us, being in the space that we're in the space of within, it just it hasn't worked for us. So I learned my lesson three times. But I'm not saying that Google ads is wrong for everybody. It just wasn't. It's just not right for us. We're in the relationship building business because there are billions of website agencies out there, so it's difficult to run ads being like trust us, we're great, so yeah, and you're, and you're, you're in the. You have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars just to get above that threshold, just to get in front of the right people, and that takes a long time and a lot of money. So that was definitely my imperfect marketing moments.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that, because I do think you got to find what's right for your business, and it might be Google ads. We're not saying that Google ads are bad in any way, shape or form, but do you have somebody picking up the phone? Do you? If you do make it through, do you have the budget for that? Or could you be more effective and efficient sending handwritten cards or a letter to your network? Do you spend a couple of hours on LinkedIn and connect with people? There's like a million different things you could do. That isn't Google ads. They can still bring in a ton of business. Um, so Google ads didn't work. Where did you? Um reallocate your time or money focused on? Do you find success with?
Speaker 2:it? Oh, that's such a great question. Thank you for asking LinkedIn. So I'd say 99.9% of our clientele, they're all on LinkedIn. So, um, doing our research, um, the right messaging, the right connections out that plus partnerships. Partnerships is a channel that I never thought would be so important for up in a day, but it is, um, because you can have partners in unseeable industries that you would never would think. And so if you think dynamic we I just did a lot of dynamic thinking about, like, well, that you know, that mortgage broker works a lot with small business owners. Okay, well, I'm going to give them a call and let's talk. And so creating these partnerships and in multiple industries has really benefited up in a day. Plus, it gets our name out there, which I really like, so it's been great.
Speaker 1:Very cool. So just be thinking about your marketing differently. Right, you definitely need the website, because they're going to go check that, but partnerships and LinkedIn are always fantastic tools, because it's not relationships, right, it's what we're all doing, even through our websites. We're trying to connect with other people, to build a relationship so that they buy stuff from us. Thank you again, lindy, so much for being on the show. I do appreciate it For those of you listening or watching. If you learned anything, we'd really appreciate it if you would rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. It really helps us out. Until next time, have a great rest of your day.
