Imperfect Marketing
Imperfect Marketing
How Do You Turn Podcast Visibility Into Profit?
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, I sit down with Shayna Davis, host of The Influence Economy, to talk about why podcasting is more than just a visibility tool—it’s a powerful way to position yourself, land bigger opportunities, and turn influence into profit.
Shayna shares her journey of podcasting for over five years, growing her show into the top 3% of all podcasts worldwide, and how she uses it as a cornerstone strategy for credibility and corporate client acquisition. Together, we dive into the shift from being “just visible” to being intentionally profitable in your business.
We explore:
The Influence Economy
- Why influence is no longer just for celebrities.
- The difference between visibility for visibility’s sake and visibility that creates real, tangible results.
- Why so many entrepreneurs—especially women—are living beneath their profit potential.
Podcasting as a Positioning Tool
- How a podcast can become the “modern-day media vehicle” to reach bigger and better buyers.
- Why a podcast without a business model is just a hobby.
- The unique credibility podcasting brings when working with corporations and media.
Building an Ecosystem Around Visibility
- How to pair your visibility strategy with the right monetization methods.
- Why bigger opportunities often come from corporate contracts and sponsorships.
- The importance of building a transcendent brand that extends beyond your niche.
Practical Lessons for Marketers
- Why being “busy” is not the same as being scalable or sustainable.
- The myth of consistency—and why you need to be consistent at the right things, not just anything.
- Why clarity beats cleverness when it comes to messaging.
Key Takeaways
- Visibility without strategy doesn’t equal profitability.
- Podcasting offers unmatched positioning and credibility when done intentionally.
- Your broader brand positioning matters—frame your expertise in a way that has mass market appeal.
- Don’t just be consistent—be consistent with the right strategy, at the right time.
Connect with Shayna:
Links to Book: Unchained: Breaking Free from Broken Marketing Models: How Small Businesses Can Finally Take Control of Their Marketing, Lead with Strategy, and Scale with AI:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaynarattler/
Whether you’re considering starting a podcast, refining your visibility strategy, or looking for ways to land bigger clients, this episode will give you the tools and perspective to think beyond visibility and into sustainable profitability.
Are you ready to transform your visibility into real results? Tune in now and learn how to leverage podcasting as your most powerful positioning tool.
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
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Hi, I'm Kendra Corman. If you're a coach, consultant, or marketer, you know marketing is far from a perfect science. And that's why this show is called Imperfect Marketing. Join me and my guests as we explore how to grow your business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned along the way. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. I'm your host, Kendra Corman, and I am really excited for our guest today, Shayna. Shayna is going to be talking to us about one of my favorite topics, which is podcasting and how that's going to help increase your visibility. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. Happy to be here. So let's go ahead and talk a little bit about how you got started in podcasting. I mean, you talk about podcasting as a positioning tool, right? For women in businesses. How did you get started?
SPEAKER_00:So at the time of this recording, I've been podcasting for five years. And I don't even to be honest with you, the reason why I probably started podcasting was because it was like the thing to do. You know what I mean? Like it was like the new, and I'm not one of those people when it comes to like marketing and visibility that is like trendy, like jump on the bandwagon. But it was getting a lot of attention for a reason. And I pay attention to the things that are getting a lot of attention, especially over a period of time. And what I did not know was that when I launched it, that the pandemic was coming a few weeks later. And so it ended up being, you know, a great thing for my business. And I've been podcasting now for, like I said, five years. And it's just part of my strategy of what I teach now. I will say now, I'm not a podcasting expert. I have grown my podcast to be in the top 3% in the world of all podcasts. So I've done a few things right, I believe, but I'm not a podcasting expert. I just think that it's a great positioning tool if it makes sense. Now, if you're one of those people that's like, oh, I only care if five people hear it, as long as they're having fun, I think there's better things that you can do with your time. But if you can find a way, which we're going to talk about today, for it to make monetary sense, I think it's, I think it's worth exploring. And I'm just one of those girls that like, if it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense for my business.
SPEAKER_01:I love that thought process, right? I mean, there's passion projects, which are great, right? But when you're looking at your business, it should be bringing you a return. I've said this before numerous times on on Imperfect Marketing, that my podcast is one of my highest returning activities that I do. Not just visibility, but people joining my email list and eventually leading to sales. I've had people say, Oh, hey, Kendra, you know, I got your email about your podcast episode. And that just made me think about I've been forgetting to reach out to you. I'd like to book, you know, X, Y, or Z. And it's just been very, very effective combined with email for me. And it's been amazing to go ahead and just give me a ton of content that I could repurpose, which I love. So, what's your podcast?
SPEAKER_00:My podcast is called The Influence Economy. And it's really about teaching you how do you learn how to make serious income from your influence and how do you do it on your own terms, especially considering all the friction and noise that's going on around us.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So that leads into my next question is what is the influence economy and why is it so important right now?
SPEAKER_00:The influence economy is where your visibility, which everybody talks about, oh, be visible, visibility, visibility coaches are popping up all over the place. We'll get into why. Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna answer your question. In my opinion, Kendra, the influence economy is where your visibility meets intention to be able to create tangible results, tangible results like life-changing income, tangible results like bigger opportunities, tangible results like legacy. And it's really about how do you recognize that your influence is actually an asset. And the reason why I think it's so important is like we live in like this digital first world now, where influence isn't just for celebrities anymore. It's really a way for you to maximize your impact in the world. But the problem is that so many of us have been taught just how to be visible as a result of our influence, but we haven't been taught how to be profitable. We're missing the strategy oftentimes to help turn that visibility into profitability. And I think that many of us have like the mission and the message for visibility, but we do not necessarily, we don't necessarily have the right method for profitability. And so that's what I say when I'm talking about how are we intentional about our visibility so that we're actually turning it into profitability? Because honestly, I think that far too many women, especially, are living beneath our profit potential. And it's because we're told just be visible, just be visible. You just gotta be visible, you just gotta show up. Well, if you're not matching that with the right profitability strategy, then you're gonna be seen, but you're not gonna be paid well.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think that there's even more to that, too, right? When we get into, you know, how we were raised in money conversations and things like that, too, right? So I definitely believe that you are 100% accurate that there's very few of us actually, you know, making the profits or at the level that we should be. But we're all busy, right? We've all got full schedules. I've been trying to move my wording from busy to full. Friend of mine told me that my schedule is full. Um, I'm not busy. Although the next two weeks, I am busy at the time of recording.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm like, it's a little insanity. I told someone a couple of weeks ago, I was like, I need a different word because I'm always gonna be busy. You know what I mean? Like I'm always going to be busy, and I need a different word that really conveys what my life is like right now because busy is not, does not desire. I like full.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. She's like, she's like, normally my schedule is full, but she's like, right now I'm busy. And I was like, yeah, that's that's accurate, right? So yeah. Yes, I love it. So I'm trying to train myself on that. All right. So we need to move from just being visible to actually being profitable. Is there more to it than just being intentional? And when you say intentional, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_00:What I mean by intentional is we have to be intentional about the monetization strategy. I'm not just visible for visible sake. You have to learn how do you get a return on investment for your visibility. So we're being intentional about pairing our visibility, whatever your visibility strategy is, because there's a lot of them that you can use. I don't recommend you use more than one or two, but we're getting intentional about pairing our visibility with the right monetization strategy that's going to give us, I call it visibility ROI, that's actually gonna give you a return on investment for your visibility. I personally choose podcasting for a reason, but that's what I mean when we're being intentional is are you actually, do you have the right monetization strategy? Do you have the right method for profitability that you're using for your influence and visibility? So, what are some examples of these methods that you're talking about? For me, I think that you should look at what are the products, the services, the partnerships, the collaborations that you can actually let me say it this way. Your visibility strategy, whatever you're using, I use podcasting. That's gonna be at the core, right? Like that's gonna be at the center. But what is the ecosystem that you're building around your visibility? Because that's where your return on investment is gonna come in. The problem is, in my opinion, is that many of us need bigger and better buyers than what it is that we have now, which is what I focus on. I focus on if you're really wanting to scale, if you're really wanting to make serious income, I believe that one of the greatest ways to do that is through bigger and better clients. I teach a strategy of landing corporate clients, whether that's corporate consulting, whether it's corporate sponsors, because many of us are looking at scaling of like, I'm just gonna do more of what it is that I'm already doing to the same people that I'm already selling it to. And for most of us, there's a faster path to cash and bigger dollars on the other side if we would focus on bigger and better buyers. So for me, if I'm thinking about using my visibility, when I look at the ecosystem that I want to build around it, I'm gonna focus on one that is gonna get me bigger opportunities, bigger checks, and a better life.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and if you think about it, I mean, we're talking about our schedules being full, right? And the fact that, you know, busy just doesn't state where we're at because we're always gonna be busy. That's not scalable. Just copying yourself and doing more with the same people isn't going to move the needle.
SPEAKER_00:And it's not sustainable for my mindset, for my psyche either. Because I found myself, even with what I do with corporations, I found myself about about 90 days ago asking myself, is my current business model sustainable for another 10 years? Can I can I be this full for another 10 years? And if the answer to that is no, which for many of you that is listening right now, you have to ask yourself, what can I do differently? And I said to myself, I need to change up my business model a little bit. I need to change who it is that I'm focusing on and how it is that I'm working with them, and all eliminating some of these visibility things that I'm doing because it's making me a little too full. Yes. And that's not sustainable.
SPEAKER_01:No, definitely not. And I think that there's just so much with what you just said. So I I want, if you're listening and you're looking at your business and you're looking at your calendar and asking yourself, is can you maintain this level of full for the next 10 years? And if you want to grow, can you main this maintain this level of full and more, right, for the next 10 years? If that's not going to be okay, then I would say you really need to think about it, right? You're not profitable enough. And you need to look at what you're doing and look at your business pretty seriously. So why do you pick podcasting as like your corner cornerstone? And why do you recommend it that way for women?
SPEAKER_00:Podcasting is like the modern day media vehicle that can give you unlimited reach, you know, like massive reach, unlimited income. The problem is that a podcast without a business model is just a hobby. And I did that long pause for a reason. A podcast without a business model is just a hobby. And I have been landing corporate clients and teaching others how to land corporate clients for almost two decades. And it's become a lot easier now that I have a podcast, which is why I have continued to podcast over the last couple of years because I almost put that down. It was making me a little too full. And so for me, I believe that there's two things that all business owners should be doing and, you know, take it up with whoever you want to take it up with. But number one, I think that we should be selling our services to corporations. You can take the exact same thing that you're already offering and give it to someone that can pay you what 100 of the people that you're currently working with can pay you. Why would you not want to do that? And then number two, I think the most powerful positioning tool is podcasting. It gives you credibility. And in the space of corporate clients, when one of the most difficult things to do is figure out how you're going to reach them, having a podcast is a, is a great way to do that. And so that's why I think that podcasting is the cornerstone for visibility. But I think the best buyers are the ones that can expect to pay you way more than what it is that you're already making. That's like, say less. Like, who doesn't want to do that? Without starting over, without changing your niche, without doing anything different than what you're already doing and getting people the same results that you're already getting other people, but they expect to pay you more? Who doesn't want that? If you don't want that, I don't even know why we're listening. Not, you know what I mean? And not to say, you know, there's gonna be some people like, I don't want to work with corporate clients for whatever reason. I'm not saying you have to, but I'm saying, why would you not want to start to look at your business model and your life in a way that can yield you greater results for what it is that you've already decided you want to do? And this is just a mechanism by which you can do that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I agree with you on the whole podcasting being giving you some of that cachet, right? That um influence that comes with it. It's very interesting because I hear a lot of people they because one of them like, hey, you need to start a podcast to clients. It's gonna make your content creation easier. Um, it's going to give you more authority when you're interviewing other people. And and I, the list goes on, right? And I I tell that to people all the time is why they should start a podcast. Other people at the organization or their PR people, because I don't do PR, um, are like, oh, well, everybody has a podcast. I'm like, no, everybody does not have a podcast. What on earth are you talking about? And why would that stop us anyway, even if they did?
SPEAKER_00:Everybody has a business, everybody has a this, everybody has a that. You have to find out how to how do you differentiate yourself to break through the friction and noise that is out there, just like you would in in any other thing. Everybody has social media, but I bet you you're on there. Like I don't understand that the you know what that is, Kendra, if I can be honest with you. They know that they don't understand it enough to help you, and they don't want to be seen as someone that does that does not know everything. Because you know, because why else would you tell someone, but everybody has a podcast. Are you telling them the same thing about social media? Are you telling them the same thing about marketing? Are you telling them the same thing about everything else that they do in life? That's not your job. Your job is to pick where do you want to be and how do you show up in a way that dominates? And if I'm telling you, oh, well, don't do that, everybody's doing that. That's because I don't know enough about that to advise you. And rather than being um willing enough to say, yeah, if you're if you want to do that, I'm all for it. But go find the people who can support you because I don't know a lot about it. I would rather just say, oh, no, what you should really be focused, because I bet you that same PR person said, no, we really should just focus on getting getting you booked more because they don't want you to, they don't want the money to leave them.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, and I'm sitting there going, um, can you book them on podcasts, please? And they're like, Oh, that wasn't included in our quote. I'm like, why not? I'm like, that's gonna actually get them in front of the audience that they need to be in front of.
SPEAKER_00:Because more people are consuming podcasts nowadays than they are anything else. Just like streaming revolutionized the way people consume television. Podcasting has revolutionized the way people consume content. There's a statistic that said that podcast hosts are five to seven times more influential than actors, than celebrities, then you fill in the bro, you fill in the blank. So it's like you have to shift with the times and you have to, you have to go where the people are. You have to fish where the people are swimming. And right now, individuals at all levels are consuming content via podcasts. Now, here's the other thing: there's three and a half million podcasts in the world. Only 35% of those podcast hosts have posted an episode in the last 90 days. So, no, everybody has a podcast, but not everyone, not everyone is active, not everyone is doing it right, not everyone is consistent. I could go on and on and on. But what I can tell you is that it is the modern day media, it is the modern day vehicle for getting content out there. And this, I don't remember who the consultancy was, but we're five to seven times more influential than celebrities, especially when it comes to someone taking action with you. So yeah, that person just didn't want to lose their money.
SPEAKER_01:And I've got like multiple stories and examples that I can just sort of copy and paste of all of those, and it's the same exact thing. And I love the way that you said that because I had never thought of that before. And I think you are a hundred percent right. They didn't want to take the time to understand the medium, and therefore they were like, eh, it's no big deal. Like, yes, it is. Yes, it is. I'm actually approaching a client because I want them to build a podcast studio for one of the local universities so that they'll be able to start their podcast. Um, and it's just again, uh you know, students and um people in the community, they need to get on podcasts, right? They need to practice talking to people. There's just so many benefits from it too, beyond just the business piece. So let's take a step back because we want to like build this our influence and this influence economy, right? So if somebody was to start building their multimedia empire today, what's the first step?
SPEAKER_00:You have to start by creating what I call a transcendent brand, meaning that you have to brand yourself outside of your industry to demonstrate why you have mass market relevance. So let me take myself for example. Even though I've grown my podcast to be in the top 3%, even though podcasting is central to my strategy, I don't brand myself as a podcasting expert. I brand myself as an influence expert. You see, one is specific, one is scalable, because now when I'm talking about owning your influence and elevating your influence, a corporation can bring me in for a contract. The Today Show can bring me in to talk about, let's just say, oh, it was just women's history, it's just women's, it was just women's history month. Like, how do women learn how to own their voice? How do they learn how to own their influence? If I want to go get a book deal, it's gonna have mass market appeal. So I so I ask people to look at what it is that they really do as like an umbrella. Like, what is the master arena of what it is that you really do? What I really do is help people to own their influence. I help them to make serious money from their income. Podcasting, and I don't teach podcasting, let's be honest. What I do is I teach you how to land corporate clients, and you can use the podcast as one of the ways to do that, but that's just one way that I serve the arena. And so if you're looking at how do I really build my influence? How do I really begin to position myself? I may, I may want to completely abandon what I'm doing right now, or I may not. I may want to add just another way that I'm serving people, you have to ask yourself, what do I do in a broader theme? What is the broader theme of what it is that I really do? And for me, my broader theme is influence, but there's multiple different ways that I can serve that arena. And so that that's the first step is really asking yourself, what is the broader theme of my zone of genius? I like that. I like thinking about that because you didn't change what you do. You just changed how you framed it. And that's what it normally comes down to is positioning. You take a health coach and they're like, hey, I help moms, you know, lose weight. That's great. But what if your transcendent brand was women's well-being? Because the today show may isn't is not necessarily gonna bring you on to talk about how moms can lose weight. There may not be, or you know, new moms. There may not be enough new moms that are listening, right? You know, a corporation is not gonna bring you in to teach their moms how to lose weight. So you just have to look at like how do how does one thing make me more scalable to give me a broader, more mass market appeal? Um, and then it's just gonna open up the floodgates of you really building, when I say an empire, you know, some people are like, oh, but I don't want that. Everybody wants more money because the more money you have, the more people you can impact, the more influence you can have, the more you can impact people, the more you can live the life that you know you were born for. It may not be the reason why you do what you do, but you can't do what it is that you want to do without it, point blank to the period, right? And so by broadening yourself up, and people are like, oh, but that's counterintuitive because I always I've always been taught that I have to pick a niche. I feel like influence is still a niche. I'm just not saying corporate contracts. I'm not just saying podcasting. So I'm still defining myself within a bucket, within a niche, if you want to call it that. I'm just picking one that has more mass market appeal because it gives me more opportunities than just this one way over here that I could serve that area.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and the words that you use attract your specific mansion target. It doesn't have to be a title, right? And for those of you listening or watching, she's making it sound super easy. I get it, it's not, right? It's hard to take a step back from what you're doing because sometimes we're just way too close to it, right? And so I think, you know, having somebody be able to look at it and give you advice and insight is important too. So um, if you can't afford, you know, professional help, um, you might want to think about again, talking to friends, talking to people that are removed and aren't as passionate about exactly what you do as you are, right? Because sometimes it's really hard to see the forest through the trees, um, especially when we're in the middle of it. It's like, that's all these trees. Yeah, all I see is trees. I get it. I get it. Um, so not to not to downplay, you know, the ease of that, right? Um, it does sometimes take that that outside perspective, I think, off more often than we give it credit for to look at that. And I think that that's important.
SPEAKER_00:And I think it's important. I think regardless if you are looking at a corporate client or whoever it is, if you don't know what it is that you really do, then I think that you should really spend some time on that before you do anything else in your business. Because most of us, it's like on the surface, I do this. But what I really do is this. And what the really do is where the magic is. And it's also in what the really do that really makes people say yes to your offer. It's usually not your blanket statement. It's usually, but what I really do is this, because those are the things that are typically creating the urgency that people are willing to invest to change and not just the nice to have. So I would say it's worth the investment, whatever investment looks like to you, whether it's talking to other people, whether it's hiring someone, whether it's taking a course, whether it's Chat GPT, whatever it is, it's worth it for you to figure out what is it that you really do beneath the surface, because your messaging is going to have to, your framing of what you do and how you do it has to be anchored in that. And your messaging does as well. Because here's the thing that, in my opinion, Kendra, we have to solve problems that people recognize they have. And the way that most of us are talking about what we do, somebody has helped us word something, wordsmith something that is super sexy and super clever, but you know what it's not? Clear. And I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. And nobody is sitting around thinking about that. I help women over 55 thrive. I don't know anybody that just sat around and said, you know what? If I could just thrive. Now, what you do may help them thrive, but that's not what they the problem that they recognize they have. So stop being cute and stop being clever and let's get clear on what it is that you really do. And when you can nail that down, now you can start to broaden yourself up to like, oh, I could actually do this for a bigger company and they could pay me, you know, six figures to come in and do this. Oh, I actually could get some real, I could garner some real media attention because now I've uncovered what it is that I really do. I'll get off my soapbox now.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm just thank you so much for all of this wisdom and all of this information that you've been sharing. It's fantastic, right? I think everybody needs to hear it. And I think that there's some hard truths in there for some people because I do believe you're 100% right. Sexy doesn't always sell, right? It's gotta be clear. Um, and that clarity is really important. Um, I love AI. I talk about AI all the time. I train across the country on AI. Love it. But it doesn't give that clarity. You have to know and own and understand that clarity to get it to help support you and everything else, but it's not going to create it for you. And I think that that's really important to remember as more and more people are creating everything businesses, content, business plans, you name it, with AI. It's not magical.
SPEAKER_00:I think if more people would recognize that AI is not your strategist. So use AI to take your thoughts and make them better and help them help you, you know, organize them better, help you implement them better. But stop going to AI for your original thoughts and ideas. Because it's just giving you somebody else's thoughts and ideas anyway, right? Like we're not going to go down that rabbit hole. But, you know, don't go to AI to tell you how to think. You tell AI what it is that you think, and now it can help you do it better, whatever it is, if you're looking for reframing it, if you're looking at how you implement it, if you look at ideas of how you could turn that into offers, but stop going to it for your original ideas because it's just giving you somebody else's ideas anyway. And so it's not there to teach you how to think. You have to tell it how you think.
SPEAKER_01:Agreed, 100%. Okay, so we're pretty much out of time. So I do want to wrap this up. Thank you again so much for coming. This show is called Imperfect Marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science. I do ask all of my guests, and I forgot in our little pre-show meeting to remind you, um, I ask all my guests the same question, and that is what has been your biggest marketing lesson learned along the way?
SPEAKER_00:That it's a myth that we should be consistent. And let me tell you what I mean by that. When you tell that's a half truth. We tell people all the time, like when it comes to marketing, you just have to be consistent. And while that is true, I think it's a half truth because you have to be doing the right things in the right way and doing that consistently. And so for someone to just be told you just need to be consistent, I could be picking the right thing and doing it wrong consistently, and I'm not going to get good results. Or I could be picking the wrong thing and doing it very well consistently and not getting the best the best results. And so I think that if we're going to be consistent, we have to choose what is the right thing that I should that I should be doing right now for where it is that I am right now and where it is that I want to go next, and then go all in on that so that I now know I'm doing the right thing in the right way. And now let me be consistent at that. Because somebody out there, that's going to free you because people are like, oh, just be consistent. And you're like, I'm just gonna do more, more, more, more, more, more, more. And then you're like, oh, maybe I'm really not cut out for this. Oh, maybe I shouldn't have been doing this after all. No, none of that is right. The problem is that you've just been consistent either at the wrong things or in the wrong way. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:You gave me a heart attack when you're like, consistency is not another what? I'm like, I tell people to be consistent all the time. But you're right. You gotta be consistent at the right place, right? Yeah, it's just a half truth. Yeah. No, I I I like how you how you shared that also. Thank you so much again for everything that you shared. If you guys want to connect with um with Shayna, there's contact information uh in the show notes or in the description below the video, wherever you're listening or watching. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. Until next time, have a great rest of your day.
