SEO Is Dead. Search Everywhere Optimization Is Here | Wes Towers

Are you still relying on Google alone to get found?
Wondering why your website traffic is shifting—but your leads aren’t?
Or why your marketing feels like it’s working… but you can’t quite track it anymore?

If this episode resonates with you, make sure to follow Imperfect Marketing so you don’t miss future conversations that break down what’s actually working right now.

SEO hasn’t disappeared—but it has evolved in a big way. In this episode, Kendra talks with Wes Towers about the shift from traditional search engine optimization to what he calls “search everywhere optimization.” Today’s buyers aren’t just Googling—they’re using AI tools, voice search, and multiple platforms to find answers, often before they ever visit your website. 

That shift means the old playbook—keywords, rankings, and traffic reports—doesn’t tell the full story anymore. Instead, it’s about building quality content, simplifying your message, and creating trust signals that validate your business when someone is ready to buy. From reviews to website clarity to consistent visibility, this episode breaks down how to stay relevant and competitive in a noisy, fast-changing digital world. 

This episode will show you:
• How SEO is evolving in the age of AI and multi-platform search
• A smarter approach to creating content that actually gets found
• The role of trust signals (like reviews) in driving conversions
• Why simplifying your website can increase leads
• How consistency and personality impact your marketing results

If you stop chasing rankings and start focusing on clarity, trust, and consistency, you’ll create a marketing strategy that not only gets you found—but gets you chosen

👤 About Our Guest – Wes Towers:
Wes is the founder of Uplift 360, a digital agency specializing in websites and search optimization. While his agency works across industries, he’s recently niched into construction—helping companies stand out in a highly competitive space through smarter, more strategic online visibility.
Website: https://uplift360.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/westowers/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Uplift360Aus

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Transcript

Welcome To Imperfect Marketing

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Hi, I'm Kendrick Korman. If you're a coach, consultant, or marketer, you know marketing is far from a perfect science. And that's why this show is called Imperfect Marketing. Join me and my guests as we explore how to grow your business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned along the way. Of getting found and being found. And I think Wes, you you work with a lot of construction companies, right? You focused in construction. Talk to Wes about how you got into the online game and getting help in what I would say is a fairly competitive industry, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah, well, it's uh we've only niched into the construction industry uh in more recent times, I suppose. So we've um digital agency uplift 360. So we do websites mate mostly and search engine optimization. We're calling it search everywhere optimization because it's not just Google and search engines anymore. But uh yeah, so started out in in a marketing company, started my own business naively after only working for others for a few years, and so had to learn a lot of things the hard way. Um, but got started after an opportunity to um to get a few clients and so did that moonlighting. So in the evenings, built it up so it was a full-time job. That was the first goal, build something that's uh more than a a um regular income, which took a little time and and uh then building out a team and so on. So yeah, digital agency. Um we're working probably the last two, three years, we've drilled into the construction industry purely because we found most of our better clients were in that space. Um, but that's not to say we don't serve people outside of that industry. We we definitely do. We've got lots of legacy clients, for example, in all sorts of spaces. So, yeah, lots of B2B and so on. So that's that's kind of how we got here. And it's been being a roller coaster ride, really. Um, fumbling my way forward, I would say.

Search Everywhere Optimization Basics

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I think we all do a little bit of that. And I think some of the best businesses are built with those of us who are just imperfectly moving forward. So, congratulations on on all of that and that journey. And I love talking to digital agencies because there is just so much to learn. I love that phrase, search everywhere, right? Because again, people aren't just Googling things anymore, right? We're asking, I feel like I have to whisper, Alexa, um, just so she doesn't answer here in the office because otherwise you'll hear her chiming in and then saying she can't help with whatever it is I'm asking. Uh, you know, um, we're using our phones and just AI, right? Chat GBT, perplexity, all the things. Everybody is looking for people everywhere. So very cool. So let's talk about SEO, right, from a search engine optimization, because you talked about search everywhere. Is that still relevant with AI?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

It's been, uh, it's always evolved. Um, and historically, people have tried to cheat their way to the top. Um, and so there'd be sneaky little packs you could do and then, you know, rank a site fairly highly. But then Google would figure out what everyone's up to and then um either downgrade or even penalize sites if they've been super naughty. And uh, and that was a silly game that everyone is playing for a long time. But these days it's around building quality content that that's um you know targeted to a specific type of person so it resonates. So the good news is the quality really counts now. So, and that because they're far more sophisticated, obviously with AI, they understand the context and nuance of of language and what someone might mean when they're searching for a particular something. And and they're searching for in different ways, so they're searching whole phrases because they know the AI understands it. And so no longer are we looking at you know keywords in terms of plumber Melbourne, for example. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. So it used to be pretty simple, like the the service and the and the location typically, but these days it'll be people searching, even in Google or their large language models, they're searching for precisely what they need. So the type of plumbing they need, the emergency if it's emergency plumbing or the type of pipe they need fixed or whatever the detail. Um, so you need that quality content that addresses all these types of things that people are looking for. So you've got a chance to show up uh in Google. Um, so that's kind of where it's moving. It's kind of exciting because it's pushing quality ahead of um cheating, which which I always uh think is the best, best long-term strategy.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I'm not a fan of cheating. Uh I actually had a client ask me, well, can't we just cheat? And they gave me like an idea that people used to use about like 20 years ago, and I was like, not anymore. I'm like, Google will penalize you if you even think about doing that. So um, no, that's the answer, right? Um, because it is it is so tricky. I love how you're talking about how deep people are searching. How do you even figure that out? Like it used to just be keyword research. Now it's like everything research.

When Reporting Gets Harder

Trust Signals That Drive Decisions

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It's incredibly difficult. Um, you can't really track like you once did Evas because back in the day you would target a keyword, you would see where you ranked in Google, hopefully you're in the top few positions, and you'd track the clicks, and then you'd track the conversion, and you could give people uh nice, beautiful reports with all the details, and they could see the return on the investment. It was so clear. But now they're not even necessarily visiting your website, and therefore there's no click, but your brand may have been mentioned. And there's tools to try and determine what large language models you're showing up for, and if you're showing up in the Google's AI overview, uh, but it's pretty rough. Um, so it doesn't really give us precise information, it's just a bit of a rule of thumb. So, you know, we had clients for a long time that who were familiar with our old old way of reporting and they could see the improvements all the time. But then everyone's traffic started drying up a little bit because they were getting their answers elsewhere. But the good part was their conversions weren't decreasing, they were just having a higher conversion. What it meant was when people were researching in that research phase, they were getting their tools by a whole bunch of mechanisms. But when they're ready to engage with the company, well, yes, they still visit the website because they want to do a thorough check, particularly if it's a large investment. If it, I mean, if you're selling a widget for five dollars, yeah, sure, people won't do any research. But if you're selling anything of significance, um, any significant um uh investment, then they're going to look at your website, they're gonna check for all the trust signals, they're gonna check who you are, who you say you are, because we all know there's a whole bunch of content and um things that might not necessarily be true anymore with all the videos and uh you know AI writing content. So we don't necessarily believe what we see or or um read in the first instance. We're looking for trust signals all the time.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So talk to me about what are these trust signals that that you um have that people are looking for?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah, well, the things that you can't control are the best. So you've got to earn those to a to a large degree. So things like Google reviews. Um, so people realize if there's Google reviews and they're positive, they're likely not artificially created. Now I know there's a few dodgy people trying to create fake Google reviews, but that by and large they get weeded out. That's it's um it's not very successful. So people know it's highly um credible. So if you're getting lots of, as a B2B, you want to make sure you're getting as many good reviews as you can on Google and there might be other platforms that are suitable for your location as well. Sometimes it's just a gentle prompt. If you've got a great relationship with your customers, your clients, just a gentle prompt to request that they put in a Google review. Um, people by and large are good-hearted people and they'll help you out. Um, if you've got that relationship. So they just need that gentle nudge to do that. And so the other thing, too, curiously enough, the stats, and I wish I could remember who did the research, but apparently it's more trustworthy if you have a less than 100%, you know, less than five star overall um result, which is curious, just because we all know humans are humans and we make mistakes from time to time. And I it leans into your show to it to a large degree that imperfection, we know businesses make mistakes and are imperfect. And when we can see it's legitimately recorded, then some something in us realizes we can trust them a whole lot more.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah, I remember it was a long time ago that someone used to write that Amazon actually people bought more things off of the negative reviews on Amazon than the positive ones, because someone would be complaining, well, it doesn't have this button or it doesn't do this. And they're like, I was looking for something that didn't do that, right? And so they're like, perfect. So, and I remember, so back pre pre-COVID, um, back in 2019, um, we went on a family vacation and we um I was booking um an excursion of of some kind, and I still remember I looked at the negative reviews and the way that the company responded to the negative review, I was like, oh my gosh, that is so good. Cause they were like, it's a scam and it's this and it's that and all these like horrible things. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And then they responded, they explained all of it, and I was like, that makes perfect sense. I understand why he feels like he was cheated, but he really wasn't, if you thought about it. And it was like, okay, like and then I booked him, right? Even off of the the negative piece because of how they responded. So I definitely see that uh not the perfect score is not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

From time to time, people will ring panicky that they've got a bad review that typically they'll they will say they didn't deserve. And sometimes you can see it's clearly nothing that's you know remotely reasonable. And so people realize there's just some people out there that that do that kind of stuff. Unfortunately, people leave reviews on companies where they had no dealing with. Um that, you know, the and people understand that kind of stuff happens. But if you've got, you know, 99 great reviews and then there's one random one that doesn't seem like it fits with the others, will will everyone's going to realize um what that is?

Website Clarity That Wins Leads

SPEAKER_01 11:04

So let's talk about the website, right? Because that's that's one of those things that that people are going to, right, when they're when they're making that big investment. Being a digital agency, what are some of the things that you see people do doing that are costing them leads or customers or jobs?

SPEAKER_00 11:24

The common one is just too much confusion. So a confused mind can't make a decision. And so by trying to put everything you possibly can do within your website and and in the homepage, for example, it's just um diluting your core message. So you've really got to be solid on that one core offering that that you want to be um the showcase. And it might be around the target market, it might be around a particular way in which you do business, but just to think about a really clear and concise, compelling message. What happens over the course of time is you build a website today, and over the years, you'll start adding more things in because businesses evolve and adapt. And rather than removing anything, you just keep adding. So it becomes a big beast. So the time always comes where it's about tearing out a lot of um redundant information so that so that the main messages can sing. And also just having a design that's simple and sophisticated so it guides the eye through the core messaging because it's all about the message. Whilst the design needs to look uh suitable and and um you know professional and and aligned with the the brand, it's um secondary to the message. So there's ways in which you can design to guide the eye through. That's based on a couple of things. It's based on where we learn uh things should be on a site. So we know, you know, the contact uh page is typically the last in the menu. So if you're just trying to find contact info, you know that's where it belongs. So that's where it should be. You know, the call to action is typically on the right in the in the header there. So it might be a call, uh a phone number, or it might be um request a quote or whatever you want it to be, but that's your primary call to action place. So that's where you need it to be. And you've got your hero section on the homepage. So all these things that there's structures in which we've learned how to get around a website and people are rushed online. So you don't want them to have to think too much to find what they're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

I think that's so important. Um, I'm working with a client right now on a new website, and I'm like, they give me the list of all the things they want people to do when they get to their site, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I I get that you do all that. I get it. Nobody cares. Like, what's the one thing you want them to do when they're there? I'm like, that's what we're gonna put in the header. Like, we can put other stuff, we can navigate to other stuff, but it can't all be on the homepage. And it's a struggle sometimes to get people to narrow it down. Have you have you done any website? I'm putting you on the spot here. Have you done any websites um where you've taken someone with that crowded space and got them narrowed down to like one or two things that they want people to take on the homepage and seen improvements?

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yeah, definitely. So there's one, it's not in our uh construction industry, but one that springs to mind, and there's probably a heap of of those, but the one that springs to mind is uh a government department, um, Vifam Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine. And so the challenge with larger entities, normally I work with businesses, they're not a business, is there's so many silos of uh departments, and everyone's piece of the puzzle is super important, of course. So everybody wants their thing featured on the home page. Uh and so that before we took it on, it was it had become quite a big mess. Um and so they needed to just re redefine where they're going into simplify and structure it up. So we removed so much. Well, they worked on the content in this instance. They had people to take care of that, but just figuring out how we structure it in a way that all the important things are in there because they need them there. They're a government department and people are needing some things. It's a structured in a way so those things could be found without losing the core important messages which were on the home page. So just a really clean, simple design and it suits them beautifully well. And they can manage the message that changes over the course of time. They can jump in and change that uh with events and so on that are going on.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Well, and I bet as a government organization, they probably who, you know, their customers, right? Um, are probably much happier with the site because they're able to find things easier rather than having to go hunting for stuff. I love that example that you used because you can still have a lot of things on your website. Not all of it is the most important. I I think that's that's the key, right? Is to to realize that not everything is the most important. So, so that's fantastic.

Redirects After A Site Rebuild

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Just to think through that, the uh I don't know if how it's how it is in your part of the world, but most of the government department websites here are horrendous and they're just a mess and they move things around all the time. And you just can't find what you're looking for because people will link to certain pages and then the links are broken and they have no redirects and so on. So if you do have an overhaul of your website and it is quite large, you've got to make sure you redirect the old to the new, most relevant for that, for that thing, because other people otherwise people are lost.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

That's something people a lot of people skip. I remember I worked on a website for an insurance agency. And yeah, I we manually did every single redirect from their old site to the new site. Because there were close pages, some of the pages, there was multiple things on one now. And so I had like four redirects into one page, you know. But that way it made sure that there weren't any broken links. So if someone found a social post from three years ago that they could get there. Um, and it's something that a lot of people just don't think about and and don't take the time to do. So, so very cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

It's worth taking the extra time for sure.

Cutting Through Noise With Personality

SPEAKER_01 17:06

So let's talk about the noise, right? We're inundated with marketing messages and and things everywhere. How do you work with businesses um and organizations to cut through all of that noise and focus on what works? Because I find that a lot of people are always after like that shiny object. But I can tell by the conversation that we're having with search everywhere optimization and things like that, that you understand what works and um you work with your clients to get focused. So, how do we focus on that?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, it is difficult. So everywhere is a lot of places, and that can sound scary and overwhelming, but there's probably only some core key uh platforms for any any business, depending on what it is. If it's B2B, it might, it might be LinkedIn as opposed to some of the others. But it'll also lend itself toward the person. I I believe brands these days should be highly geared toward a personal brand where they can. And that's a distinct advantage that smaller businesses have because they're founder-led. Um, so they're they're driving it. And I think that's the way of the future. So if there is a founder-led business, you can leverage that personality. Um, because I think we're looking for personality in a in a world of blandness. I mean, everyone can produce polished content at the you know, click of a button. And uh, we don't even know if anyone's read it, it's just published automatically. Some of these tools that I see in websites and social, um, that just do all the do all the content for you. And how how how on earth is that going to be aligned and and resonate with the audience to the level in which you want it to? So thinking about those core distinctions that make you you that are different, because everyone's talking about your industry in general terms, but only you can speak to those unique aspects that only you believe in, or you um they might be um in some ways repelling people away from you because other people might not align. But those that do believe in your in your way of seeing how things should be done will be drawn to you. So, but it's almost polarizing. I know there's a lot of horrible polarization in the world right now politically and so on, but from a marketing standpoint, uh I can I think it could be used in a healthy way to stand out in the in a noisy space where everyone's kind of turning out the same.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

I think it's so important what you said. There's a lot of content that's bland and going up there that we don't really know if anybody even looked at. So I think it's important to note one, you need to look at it, right? But two, I love what you're saying about showcasing your personality. I find that the more of my personality, my thoughts, what I'm doing, when it shines through, it's just amazing how much more people want to engage with me. That really ends up in business. Um, I one of my clients uh that I helped them with their emails, she's like, someone's been on my email list for years and I've been sending consistent emails now for months. And she goes, and she finally booked a call and she goes, Hey, I've been sharing it. Now is just the right time. They had been waiting, right? But they got that message and they're like, and I love your emails and I know you're the right fit for what I'm looking to do. And it's like, yay, it's working like it's supposed to, right? And it's it's again that that dedication to that. And she built that trust, right? That we were talking about just through the consistency. Um, and showing up when she said she was going to.

Email Frequency And Unsubscribes

SPEAKER_00 20:44

It's so important. The repetition and frequency. Uh another um, I can't remember who gave this information either, but um, someone was saying that to get unsubscribes in your email list, it happens more often if you haven't emailed them enough because they've forgotten who you are. Um, they've they've found their way on your list for for uh hopefully ethical reasons. They've you know subscribed or whatever it is, um, joined something and become on your list. But if they if you don't email them frequently enough, they soon forget. Um, and it's just a timing thing often. So they just don't need your thing right now. And that goes for any any marketing, social media, and so on. It's great when you can build it around a personal brand. It feels as though when people call me, for example, it feels as though they already know me. It's sound, it's sound you can hear in their voice, it's as if they already know me because they've seen me a bunch of times, probably on social um or you know, podcasts and so on. So it's um just that repetition frequency um being out there.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

That's so important. And that's why I keep podcasting because people do feel like they have a relationship with me, because they've seen me if they're watching it on YouTube um and hear me. If they're just listening on their favorite podcast app, they hear my voice and they understand a little bit more of my personality and and who I am and the questions I ask and what I do and how I think, because I share that, right? And I think that that's so important. So super cool idea um or super cool insights. And I love how you put that. And so one of one of my areas of expertise is email marketing. And I had not heard that um phrased that way that they people. Are unsubscribing because you're not emailing them enough. But I have seen that in my own emails. Because when I wasn't emailing people and I had a sometime once-in-a-while email list that I emailed, I had more unsubscribes. And then you get gunjai because then you don't want more people to unsubscribe. So then you don't bother them for a while. It's not bothering, right? You're adding value and you need to get over that. But I I love that you said that. Yes, because they forgot why they subscribed in the first place. Um, you're not emailing them enough.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Um, so yeah, I reckon uh chat GPT will tell us where that you know research was done, but there was definitely proper research around it.

Biggest Lesson Just Get Started

SPEAKER_01 23:02

So yeah, very, very cool. I love that. I'd never heard that before. So thank you for sharing. I love this. It's search everywhere optimization, right? Get rid of the bland, build trust and authenticity through reviews and you're building your brand personality and really showing how you're different. And I think that those are some really key things that everybody should be looking for in their business. Now, before I let you go, Wes, I do need to ask you the question that I ask all of my guests. And that is that this show is called Imperfect Marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science. What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I think just getting out there on podcasts. I I started getting on the circuit maybe six months, just over six months ago. I'd done a couple years ago, but um I thought, well, no, it's time to um, you know, I was I was concerned I wouldn't speak well enough and I would be fumbling my way through. And I still do, but I've got better at it. So I think the the biggest lesson was just get started. I mean, who cares? Who cares if you make a mistake on a podcast? Only my me and my ego. Um, no one no one really bothers that much if I've you know, if it was terrible, they we just wouldn't publish it, you know. Um the the hosts. So I think just getting started, the biggest lesson is to just to get started and refine your craft as you as you go. You will get better. Um, whatever that, whatever that marketing endeavor is.

Rate Subscribe And Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 24:28

I really like that because I was just talking to um another one that I recorded earlier today, and we were talking about it. And I said, Yes, I do not want to listen to any of my first 100 episodes. And I'm like, sometimes I don't want to listen to the one that I recorded last week. Um, right. Because we do grow and get better. My husband is always telling me how much better I am now than I used to be when I started the show because I would have multiple takes after take after. I mean, it would take me a whole day to try and do one episode because I couldn't do it what I felt was the right way, right? And so, but I got out there and I got better and I started listening and being able to ask questions. And all of my guests are fantastic, right? They're sharing knowledge and information that they know. You know this, you do this day in and day out. So I am so glad that uh that you took the risk to get out there and um share your knowledge because I know that people listening and watching learned something from you today. Cause I know I learned something from you today. And for those of you listening and watching, if you did learn something today, please rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. It really helps us out. Until next time, have a great rest of your day.