Imperfect Marketing
Imperfect Marketing
Marketing Is Community (And Community Is Marketing)
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Are you trying to grow your business… but feel like no one is paying attention?
Do you think you need a big audience before you can build real momentum?
What if the real secret to growth isn’t more followers—but stronger community?
If you’ve been chasing growth but craving connection, this conversation will shift how you think about marketing—follow the show for more real, practical insights.
What if everything you’ve been told about growing your business is backwards?
In this episode, Kendra sits down with Elizabeth Henson to unpack why community is marketing—and why the most successful entrepreneurs aren’t the loudest or most polished… they’re the most intentional. Elizabeth shares how she built her first six-figure business by documenting her journey (not perfecting it) and how that same approach still works today.
You’ll learn why “magnetic leadership” isn’t about charisma, why showing up for one person matters just as much as showing up for one hundred, and how letting go of perfection can actually accelerate your growth. If you’ve ever felt stuck waiting for the “right moment” or a bigger audience—this conversation will give you a new way forward.
This episode will show you:
• How to build a business through community (even with a small audience)
• A simple framework for “magnetic leadership” that attracts people naturally
• Why sharing your journey builds trust faster than polished content
• The mindset shift that removes fear of judgment and rejection
• How small, intentional connections lead to real growth and referrals
Opportunity positioning sentence
If you’re ready to stop chasing algorithms and start building meaningful connections that actually convert, this episode will show you how.
About our guest
Elizabeth Henson is a business coach, community builder, and host of the Messy Success Podcast. She helps creatives and entrepreneurs build profitable businesses by embracing imperfection, sharing their journey, and creating intentional communities that drive real growth.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethhensonco/
Website: https://elizabethhenson.co/
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Welcome To Imperfect Marketing
SPEAKER_00Hi, I'm Kendra Corman. If you're a coach, consultant, or marketer, you know marketing is far from a perfect science. And that's why this show is called Imperfect Marketing. Join me and my guests as we explore how to grow your business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned along the way. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. I'm your host, Kendra Corman, and today I'm really excited to be joined by Elizabeth Henson. She and I are going to be talking about community, which I think in today's day and age has just grown in importance. And so I think this is a really great topic. And I'm so thankful for you to join me today, Elizabeth. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Kendra, I'm so excited to be here. I love the name of your podcast, Imperfect Marketing. So my podcast is Messi Success. So it's like we were a match made in heaven.
Elizabeth’s Entrepreneur Origin Story
SPEAKER_00We definitely or the other place. Either way, it works. Yeah. Whichever. Yes. Because sometimes imperfect and mercy definitely go together. And I think that people that embrace that go further, right? Further, farther, and faster than anybody else. So I love that that you've embraced that. And I love messy success. So we'll definitely link to that podcast in the show notes. So if you guys want to check that out. All right. Well, um, before we get too far, we're gonna be talking about community. Um, and you know, clearly messy success, right? Which I think is a fantastic name for a podcast. Um, how did you get started in all this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um, I was actually raised by a mom who was very like pro do what you love and make a living doing it. So the short answer is like, I've always kind of known that I don't really fit into the status quo. But my first experience as an entrepreneur, I was a wedding photographer. And then I very quickly started teaching other photographers how to become photographers and said, I really like this business coaching thing. I'm gonna get some formal training so that I can teach any niche. It doesn't have to be a photographer. And and the rest has been history. I love working with creatives and just helping people understand that like you can actually make money doing something you like to do.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's so exciting. I love people that do what they love because I do what I love on a daily basis. It's exciting when you want to go to work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I never, I never dread work. I mean, of course, like there are weeks where I look forward to the weekend, but that's completely different than like counting down every single day to the weekend because I get just as excited for Monday.
What Community Really Means
SPEAKER_00That's so cool. I love that. I love that. All right, so let's talk about community and let's just start with a level set, right? What does that mean to a small business owner? I mean, people throw around the word community like it's going out of style, right?
SPEAKER_01What does it really mean? Marketing is community and community is marketing. And I always point community back to great leadership. And if you have that magnetic leadership energy, people are going to want to be part of what you're doing. So it's not just, hey, I'm having coffee. Who wants to come have coffee? It's casting the vision of why are all these people coming together in the same room? What is it that is bigger than them? What is it that they want to be a part of? It's really not so much about the people in the room as much as it is about why they're gathering and the mission that they're all about.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So I'm not cool, not hip. I've never been. Um, I don't think of myself as charismatic or or magnetic in any way. Can someone like me do that?
SPEAKER_01Yes. And you're probably a lot more magnetic than you think. I mean, I saw you have what, over 300 podcast episodes. And I'm like, people don't just do that because it feels good, right? Like you probably know that you have a few listeners and that people like what you have to say. So I would argue you're probably a lot more magnetic than you think. Magnetic leadership isn't about being bubbly or being warm. You can be um, you know, a little bit more direct is a word I like to use, right? But still have that magnetic energy. I actually think I became more magnetic when I let go of some of that bubbly, people-pleasing energy. And people say, like, I believe what she's saying.
Magnetic Leadership Through Listening
SPEAKER_00Cause I love that person, you know, that person that walks in the room and like, I don't know if they suck all the air out when they're coming in with them or whatever, but they draw attention and not in a bad way, right? But in that magnetic personality way where people want to be around them.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it could just be that they're charismatic and entertaining, but I think the right type of magnetic leadership that really builds community is the person who listens. So I teach a lot of my students about, you know, the importance of authentic listening. And when you can truly listen to someone, you actually become the most memorable, the most attractive person in the room because they're leaving that conversation. I'm like, oh my gosh, like Kendra really liked what I had to say, or like she actually asked me questions, right? And that makes them feel important. And if you can make someone feel important, they're gonna want to come back to you over and over and over.
SPEAKER_00Very cool. I love that lesson. And I think it's so important. And I have to say that I don't think I really learned how to listen well until like episode like 75. So podcasting helped me with my active listening because I used to have a script and I listened to nothing anybody said for a while and would just read off my little script because I was so nervous. But it did, it helped me really find that path.
SPEAKER_01And so, okay, I like that. And look how far you've come. I mean, imagine if you went back and listened to like episode 10 compared to today's episode.
SPEAKER_00We don't go back.
SPEAKER_01We go forward, we only go forward. Okay. Well, if it makes you feel better, I tell people all the time, I'm like, I will cringe at something I posted yesterday. Like, that's how fast I grow. I'm not messing around. Right.
SPEAKER_00I know it's I'm same here, same here. Um, so you built your first six figure, six-figure business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my photography business. Yep. Um, in like two and a half years, I was able to quit quit my job teaching and then very quickly grew a team of photographers and you know, I was like published in magazines and my local area and stuff. So it's kind of a weird feeling to be like, yeah, and then I stopped. But I knew I had not, I knew I wanted to be done with that by the time I turned 40. And I actually shot my last wedding the same month that I turned 40 and was pivoting into this online digital marketing coaching, you know, luckily right before COVID hit. So COVID hit, and thank God I had already had a little bit of an understanding of building online communities. So that made things a little bit easier. But I feel like now is actually making a comeback to build community and to build community in person. And I'm helping people, you know, start local meetups in their area, become the authority in their area. And that really does transition into sales, even if you have an online business.
Share The Journey To Build Trust
SPEAKER_00So let me ask this question about your photography business then. What are some of like the biggest things that you think led to that success of becoming so successful so quickly?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, it's really one of the key pillars of building a community, which is to share the journey. And a mistake that a lot of people make when they build something like photography that is very visual or has a digital product is like they want to work on it in secret, right? So they'll be like practicing or even writing a book. Like, I'm writing this book, but I'm not telling anybody that I'm doing it. And then all of a sudden they're like, my photography website is live. And people are like, oh, I didn't know you did that. So like there's no trust that's been built where I did the exact opposite and like I started blogging when I got my first camera and my first lens, like, oh my God, I blurred the background for the first time. Like, so people saw me go from literally getting a camera to having beautiful images. So by the time that I was actually ready to charge money, people were like kind of lined up and and ready for it.
SPEAKER_00I love that because I do think a lot of us hide it. Again, going to messy and imperfect, right? People want to be perfect and not messy, right? In how they and how they do things. And so we don't like to show um the scary back end of stuff sometimes. And I mean, I struggle with that too on a regular basis, right? Because of that. One of the things though, that I think is really important here is I don't know if you've read Brene Brown's Dare to Lead book, but I reread it recently because I'm using it in a class that I'm teaching um called Strategic Leadership. And when I when I reread it and reread about vulnerability and how she defines it, it just felt so much more important, right? It's you don't have to show all the warts, right? You show the journey. And again, you can still be vulnerable in that, right? In that journey, showing some of the stuff that you're doing, but it doesn't have to be like ugly, like hair sticking up, you know, crazy stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's like we think about vulnerability as like, you know, kind of sharing our dirty laundry, but really it's like just this fear of like, it's okay for me to not know. Like if you ask me a question live on air and I didn't know the answer, like I'm not afraid of that happening. So therefore, I'm not presenting in a way that's like, oh gosh, like what's she gonna ask me? Is she gonna be like, what's your email open rate? And I'm gonna go, oh my God, I don't know. Right. Like, there's so much negative energy that gets portrayed when our thought process works that way. I mean, neuroscience. So because I don't actually fear like looking stupid or making a mistake, it's so much less likely, you know, to happen. And it's already happened. I mean, I've led some of like the most embarrassing things have already happened. So like, it's okay. Exactly.
Small Turnouts And Opinion Anxiety
SPEAKER_00And we don't play Stump the Dummy on this on this show. So we're good. Um, I don't ask questions until I come up with one that you don't know. It's all about sharing your knowledge and your expertise, which you already know, right? And so, and that's what most people want to do when you're on a podcast. We used to call that Stump the Dummy when there was a manager when I worked um in corporate, and they would ask questions until you had no answers. Like, and they were gonna do it until until you said, I don't know. Um, so the length of the meeting was determined by how much stuff you actually knew. If I want to go out and build a community, what are some things I should not do? What are these common mistakes that you find people doing when they're doing that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think really putting the importance on like how many people show up, making it a failure or a not failure. I mean, people will say, Oh my God, I tried to have a get together and like nobody showed up, or I shouldn't do that for free. I feel like those are, you know, and I don't care whether people do it for free or charge. That's totally up to you. But it's funny, Kendra, I'll tell you a story how I have free meetups one Friday every month in my area at Hampton Roads. It's called Hampton Roads Creative Network. And one Friday every month I host two hours for free where people can come network, get business coaching, crowdsourcing. And someone was literally sitting next to me and she was like, Oh, I won't do anything for free. And I was like, Oh, you know, you're sitting at a free event right now. Do you not feel like you're getting value? And she was like, Oh no, like these are amazing. And I'm like, okay, cool. Like this is to me, they're not, I'm not looking at it as like, oh, I'm doing this for free. A of all, I love what I do so much. There'd nothing I'd rather do on a Friday than spend it with like amazing businesswomen. But also, like, this is a lead generation machine. Like, this is all very intentional that I'm giving people a taste of me, an experience of me before they actually want to work with me. So it's not really like, oh, I'm just donating my time for free. It's like, no, this is strategic, this is marketing, this is intentional. And people are walking away with like incredible, you know, experiences. And it was just really funny because she was like, oh, I guess, I guess you might be right. I am at a free event and I'm sitting here saying I'll never do that.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, but I think that that is so insightful and so great, right? So, but I definitely think not judging by how many people show up, everybody starts somewhere, right? They said don't, don't don't judge your beginning by someone else's middle, um, which is so important, right? And I think we do, we want to start off with 20, 40, 60 people, right? And it's like, okay, well, one, that's not manageable, um, starting out anyway. So you're okay. So let's just say it's just two or it's zero the first time, right? Um, how do you help people deal with that? Because that's scary.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but that's also leadership, right? I think a great leader knows how to lead one person before they know how to lead 10, before they know how to lead a thousand. So energetically, I am prepared to show up the exact same, whether one person shows up or whether 20 people show up. And just going into it with that mindset rather than like again with the fear of like, oh my God, what if only two people come? Because most of the time that fear is that they're gonna judge me and say that, oh, I must not be credible or the expert because no one showed. Right. So we have to work on that fear and what are we making that mean? Or we can just give those one to two people like the best possible experience and pour into them the same way we would. And then they're gonna know that we know what we're talking about or that, you know, we provide a good experience. Yeah. But you have to lead one before you lead 10, before you lead 100.
SPEAKER_00Well, and just think about the quality experience that those two are getting, right? And those it's just, you know, there's so much that that they'll share and do than the 20 when you don't get to necessarily talk to all of them, right? And so there's just a lot of power in those smaller numbers, which I think you know is great. I've been following um Ryan Holiday recently. I think that's how you say his name name. He's a big, he's big into stoicism. Stoicism, I think is what it's called. Um, and stoics and and all that stuff, Marcus Aurelius. And one of the things that he's repeatedly said in my for you page on TikTok is that you can't care about other people's opinions, right? We can't control everything, but we can control how we react to it. And that's like one of the tenets of of stoicism. And if I'm even saying that correctly, because all I'm doing is watching it on TikTok. But I think it's just so true, right? So control how you're gonna react to it and you showing up, whether there's the same way if there's two or two hundred, that says a lot about you, right? And and how you're taking that. Um, how do you work with people to to help them with that mindset and to understand that, hey, I have to lead one before I can lead a thousand? Cause I'd just like to start with a thousand. Thank you. Right.
SPEAKER_01Oh, they all I everyone just wants to start with a thousand. They want to skip over the whole part of like where you talk to no one. I'm like, you're gonna when you build a business online, you are gonna feel like you're talking to no one for a long time. I still feel that way. And I've been a business owner for like 13 years. There's days where I'm like, hmm, two, you know, two eyes on that post. That's great. But I did want to speak to what you said about um, you know, other people's opinions because I do feel like once I really lived into this truth of not making it mean anything when people think something about me, I almost stopped caring about the positive feedback, right? Because we start to put so much stock into getting positive reviews and positive feedback. But positive and negative feedback are the exact same thing. They're both someone else's opinion. And one of the things that has really helped me and helped my kids too is I'm like, well, if someone called you purple, would you even let it phase you? And they're like, no, because it's not true. And I'm like, okay, so so is everything else that someone else is gonna say about you. It's just a filter, you know, through their own lens. It's what we're making it mean that, oh, we're I'm making that mean something that I'm already worried about or self-conscious about. And once I that like clicked in my brain, you know, I love getting positive feedback, don't get me wrong, but I'm not putting as much like validation in it. Like, how many times have people come to you and ask for help with their marketing and like, I mean, I know this works because I get positive feedback from my clients all the time. And you're like, I was never questioning that, but thanks.
SPEAKER_00No, but I think that that's that's really great. I love it. So anytime somebody says something about you, just pretend that they're saying you're purple and you're not. So that's important, right? And I but I do think it it is that simple and that hard, right? Because we've been raised and indoctrinated into putting a lot of weight into other people's opinions, teachers, parents, friends, uh the whole night, bosses, you know, it goes it goes all the way through. Um, we don't want to let people down. We don't want to feel, you know, we we internalize what they what they say and think about us. And I I think taking ourselves a step removed, right? Not, you know, knowing that you're in control of how you react, right? And you might not be in control of the situation, but you're in control of how you react. And I I love how you're talking about, again, showing up for one or one thousand, right? Sh doing that the same way because you can control how you react to all of those situations and then not internalizing either the positive or the negative feedback, right? And just picking what defines success for you and making that happen. I think that there's so much there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The defining success piece is oh, it's so good. I mean, I had, you know, when I realized, like, wait, I get to be home when my kids get on the bus and when they get off the bus and I'm contributing to my family, like I'm already successful. I don't have to chase some other outcome. We're gonna grow, we're gonna continue to improve. But, you know, I in my early days, it's like putting so much weight on how many followers I have or what's so-and-so doing. And now it's like, no, I I have 10 people and they love me and I'm gonna lead them and they're gonna be on the mission and they want to make this world a better place. And that's all that matters.
Measuring Lurkers And Real Engagement
SPEAKER_00Let's talk about the two, right? Um, so you have two people, low engagement, not a ton of people showing up. You get, you know, zero views on 17 posts, um, right? Or you think, right? How can you measure the effectiveness of the strategy? Or how do you tell people to measure that strategy when there's a lot of lurkers, right? And not action takers necessarily in their network.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, really, we do want to look at the facts here, right? So a lot of times people will say, Oh my God, no one is seeing my posts. And I'm like, okay, do you really mean like zero? Like, let's look at the actual numbers, you know, because normally it's like, you know, I haven't looked at the analytics so much on Instagram, but I used to help people a lot with Facebook groups. And people would say all the time, like, nobody's engaging. I'm like, well, you're not looking at the right metric. You need to look at how many active participants are in the group. And that actually is usually closer to 40%. And I'm like, that's 40, you know, out of a hundred people or four out of 10 people that are actually seeing what you have to say. So just because they didn't click the like button or, you know, take the time to make a comment doesn't mean that they're not seeing it. So let's not again attach meaning to that that's not there. And they're like, oh, okay. And I'm like, we do have data that maybe we can work on what we're posting to try to prompt some engagement, but they're seeing the post. And that's the important piece. And before you know it, as long as you keep showing up, you're building that trust, they're gonna pull out their wallet.
Cast The Vision To Start Today
SPEAKER_00If I wanted to get started with community today, right? I'm just starting out and this sounds amazing and I'm all on board with everything that you're saying. What's the first thing that you would recommend I do?
SPEAKER_01Oh, you cast the vision. The beginning is really the most magical part because all it takes is like whatever your social platform is, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, doesn't matter. You're gonna cast the vision and you're gonna tell people, hey, I'm creating something that I'm so excited about. And we're gonna be coming together in a room and we're all going to try to solve this one unique problem. And I haven't done this before, but that's why I really need 10 founding members to help me co-create this experience so that we can, you know, achieve X, Y, and Z results. And, you know, people forget that it's that simple. Like you're just making an invitation, but you do it from this humble place of like, maybe I haven't done this part before, but I have studied leadership for six plus years. So I'd love to bring what I've learned over the last six years into this container. And then I'm looking for someone else who has another expertise or someone that wants to learn about it. You know, maybe you haven't studied leadership at all, and I can help you a little bit. And people are really attracted to that, that imperfect way of presenting it because where you're going is clear. And building a business is the same way. The destination is clear. We don't have to be super clear on how we're getting there. If I want you to help me with marketing, I trust you to do that. I don't care if it's a course, if it's a one-on-one coaching call, if it's a membership, I just know that you're good at marketing and I want you to help me. And that's the destination. So people get so tied up in like the how, like, oh, I've got this grace court, this great course and it's six modules. Who wants it? And it's like, nobody. Right. But when you can cast the vision, that's that's what people are gonna jump on board for.
SPEAKER_00Again, coming from that humble place and what you're sharing about, sharing what your passion is and and not necessarily saying, I have the best thing ever, right? It's easier to talk about it, right? And not feel like you're tooting your own horn or the people again, stop caring what people think. Um, that people are gonna judge you for it and how you're coming out. And okay, you know, I need to, I need to be perfect all the time. And I think that that's that's just so important. That's a great place to start.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The greatest marketing is the truth. You know, if people someone gets tangled up, they're like, Liz, I need a strategy, I need a funnel, you know, and they're just so tangled up in that. I'm like, close your eyes and tell me why you started doing this. The first place and tell me the truth. More people are going to buy from that statement than any funnel you can come up with.
SPEAKER_00That's so powerful. There's so much here. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I'm definitely into community right now because I think that that really powers referrals, that powers growth, right? People listen to other people that have experienced things. They look at reviews. I'm always going on App Sumo and buying like a million and a half shiny things. Um, and but I look at the reviews. I look to see what other people have said. And I think community really feeds that connection, right? And and gives us information that we wouldn't otherwise have and gets us in front of people we wouldn't otherwise reach. And I think there's just so much power there. So thank you so much for sharing all of that with us.
Timeless Marketing Lessons And Closing
SPEAKER_01And you will get referrals if you would if you have a community, you 100% will get referrals.
SPEAKER_00So before I let you go, and yes, I agree. And referrals are amazing because they're so much less work than anything else. So before I let you go though, I do have to ask you the question that I ask all of my guests, which is that this show is called Imperfect Marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science. What's been your biggest marketing lesson learned?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's what worked 10 years ago, still works today, right? So we tend to chase the trends and the algorithms and the new this and the new that. But what worked when I built my photography business was sharing the journey, building community, cast, you know, casting that vision and showing up imperfectly. And that still works today. So the platforms are not as important as the mission and the consistency in which we show up. And anytime I find myself frustrated or getting tangled up, I just again I close my eyes and I'm like, what worked 10 years ago, it'll still work today.
SPEAKER_00And she means the ethical piece of doing things the right way. Cause like when people 10 years ago were gaming Google, right? That doesn't work anymore. Um, but again, I think that's Google. You mean like they were rigging it? They yeah, like like backlinks from like sites that would they would pay for backlinks too, and they would just be backlink sites. And um, what was another one? Um white words on a white background, so that you had like the keyword repeated so many times. And yeah, there's a lot of those.
SPEAKER_01Uh building a community.
SPEAKER_00I wasn't doing any of that stuff. No, but I do think that the real stuff, right? The real stuff, like building community. I talk about email, I talk about direct mail, that personalized connection always wins, right? Games, that's chasing algorithms, right? That was the trend at the time. It it worked for a short period of time and then it was gone. But those things that really truly worked and drove connection, that is what worked and um is what's still working.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And all the the tech piece is important. I don't want to minimize that. Like people will still inquire with me about weddings because they found me with SEO, right? But they're finding me with SEO, but then they're also looking at reviews. They're also looking at, you know, portfolio, what all the things. So it's all important. But when they can find you on the Google machine, it's like, and then they get the social proof, like that's where the gold is. Oh, yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much for spending this time with us today. I really appreciate it. I know I got a lot out of our conversation, and I hope um anybody that's listening and watching did too. If you learned something today, it would really help us out if you would rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and really start considering how you would start your community. And if you want to connect with Elizabeth, we have her information down in the show notes in the YouTube description, wherever you're at. So be sure to check that out and connect with her and become part of her community.
