Why Swingers Face Judgment: Unpacking Society’s Need to Impose Beliefs

In this powerful episode, we tackle a pressing issue: how segments of society attempt to impose their moral beliefs on others, particularly around the swinger lifestyle. From outdated adultery laws to neighborhood outcries over private parties, we explore the various ways sexual freedom is policed and judged by those who feel they must control others' choices. We also reflect on how societal repression impacts adult freedoms, and why swinging continues to spark controversy in communities. Whether you're in the lifestyle or just curious, this episode uncovers the root of societal judgment and the fight for personal freedom.

Key topics discussed:

• How societal beliefs shape perceptions of swinging
• The legal and moral judgments that impact swingers
• Why people feel the need to control others' sexual behavior
• An outrageous story about a neighborhood's reaction to a private "Crock-Pot Party"
• How swingers deal with public scrutiny and judgment

If you believe in personal freedom and the right to make your own adult choices, this episode is for you!

Crockpot party:

https://kdvr.com/news/local/sex-clubs-more-common-than-people-think-woman-in-the-lifestyle-says/amp

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651270/amp/Swingers-party-ends-BRAWL-police-officers-wives.html

https://www.denverpost.com/2014/01/03/colorado-swingers-spice-up-sex-life-at-squirrel-creek-lodge/amp

Adultery laws: https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-16-states-where-its-illegal-cheat-your-wife-1887307

Transcript

0:00

[Ed] Why does swinging make some people angry?[Ed] Is it okay to tell people what they can do[Ed] and the privacy of their own homes?[Ed] Why do Americans want to control other people's choices?[Phoebe] Welcome to Swinger University.[Phoebe] I'm Phoebe.[Phoebe] And I'm Ed.[Ed] Yeah, we've been talking about doing,[Ed] well, we've done aspects of this topic before.[Ed] And we've been wanting to do this for a while.[Phoebe] Years.[Ed] Years.[Ed] And in some of these stories that we're going to talk about[Unknown] are actually years old, but they're still relevant[Unknown] and they're still topical.[Ed] Because of everything that's going on right now in the world.[Unknown] Yes.[Ed] Let's start with this.[Ed] Swinging right now is huge in popular culture.[Ed] If you look on YouTube, you look at any of the other channels[Ed] out there, you do a search for swinging.[Ed] TikTok, ABC News has done several specials on it.[Ed] There's a new, there's a new special coming out this Friday[Ed] about swinging and Mormons and the whole thing.[Ed] And it's like this reality TV.[Ed] It's all, it's all out there.[Ed] Yeah, it's all out there.[Unknown] Yes, awesome.[Ed] But what's interesting though is that there are still people[Ed] who get really, really upset about the personal choices[Ed] that people make in their lives.[Ed] And this goes way beyond swinging.[Ed] But we're going to talk about swinging specifically today.[Ed] But you can kind of read between the lines[Ed] and see how this can apply to other things.[Ed] Part of what we're going to talk about today[Ed] is a philosophical discussion about fears and insecurities[Ed] that people have.[Ed] Why the nela people feel that they need to be concerned[Ed] about what everyone else does sexually?[Phoebe] As as repressed of a culture that we are,[Phoebe] why does everyone feel like they need to stick their nose[Unknown] into your bedroom?[Phoebe] Right, like they're the ones having sex with the lights off.[Phoebe] So why do they need to shine the light on you?[Ed] When you make an interesting point,[Unknown] because if you're so offended by sex,[Ed] why are you even thinking about it so much?[Ed] Why are you talking about it so much?[Ed] Why are you worried about what other people are doing about it?[Ed] I mean, you won't talk to your kids[Ed] about what they shouldn't do and the proper use of condoms[Ed] because heaven forbid that teenagers actually have sex[Ed] because guess what folks, they do.[Ed] It happens.[Ed] And instead of hiding, you should talk to them about it.[Ed] So let's kind of swing it back towards the lifestyle[Ed] and talk about one of the reasons why maybe this[Ed] is a little bit of an issue[Ed] and why some people who are watching this channel,[Ed] who are swingers may want to be concerned a little bit[Ed] come to find out.[Ed] Adultery is actually a crime in some states.[Unknown] You'd have to figure out whether swinging with consent[Ed] is actually classified as adultery.[Ed] I think it still would be because you're married[Ed] and you're having sex with someone who you're not married to.[Ed] Therefore, it is adultery.[Ed] Even if you're consenting, we have a map.[Ed] We'll publish it along with the episode,[Ed] little screenshot of it.[Ed] In some states, it's a $10 fine, like in Maryland,[Ed] whoopty-doo, who cares.[Ed] $10, but in other states,[Ed] it's actually potentially jail time for it.[Ed] Yikes.[Ed] It's a legitimate concern.[Ed] I guess my question would come to with this.[Ed] A, how did that come about?[Ed] Why did they think that adultery was so bad[Ed] that it should be a law and more specific?[Ed] Because I know why, because we were a Puritan nation[Ed] when we were founded.[Ed] It was ultra conservative people who founded the country.[Ed] And they had all kinds of rules about sex[Ed] and what you should and shouldn't do.[Ed] It seems that some states still have these laws[Ed] on the books.[Ed] Fascinating.[Ed] Yeah, very fascinating.[Phoebe] We do not live in that one of those states thank goodness.[Ed] No, we don't.[Phoebe] But the Florida is one of those states and,[Phoebe] and right next to Florida, what Alabama?[Phoebe] What else is right next there?[Ed] All the Southern states right up to Louisiana.[Phoebe] And Virginia.[Ed] All the way north to Virginia.[Ed] And like I said, Maryland's there.[Ed] DC's not a state, but, you know, there you go.[Phoebe] And swinging is huge in Florida.[Ed] Yeah, I think Utah's in here, Arizona.[Phoebe] Oh, I'm surprised by that, because there you go.[Ed] Well, as we know, there'll be a TV show on.[Ed] Talking about swinging in Utah because they're Mormons.[Ed] There you go.[Ed] Oh, man.[Phoebe] But that state and the Mormon religion[Phoebe] have history of having multiple lives, right?[Phoebe] Way back.[Ed] But that's not adultery because they were all married.[Unknown] Oh, oh, my God.[Unknown] Talk about, wait.[Ed] Talk about a pen to the rule.[Phoebe] Oh, because I see you can be a polygamist,[Ed] but you can't have a adultery.[Ed] Because they got their tax dollars.[Phoebe] Because you were married.[Ed] It could be.[Phoebe] Because when you're married, you're a corporation,[Phoebe] and you get the dollar.[Ed] So what it comes down to is you can have five wives[Ed] as a polygamist.[Ed] But if you sleep with a sixth woman,[Ed] oh, then you're in trouble.[Ed] This is why we can't have nice things.[Ed] Oh, my goodness.[Ed] OK.[Ed] So yes, the origin of this comes about[Ed] from our trip to Colorado when we went to a house party.[Ed] And we were talking to the host of the party.[Ed] And one of the stories that came up[Ed] was the crockpot party.[Ed] Oh, my goodness.[Ed] It's known in the news as the crockpot party.[Ed] We'll have a link to the video, or at least[Ed] to the news articles that talk about it.[Unknown] Because I think the videos are gone by this time.[Ed] The long and short of it is there[Ed] was a swing or party in a neighborhood,[Ed] and the police were called.[Ed] And the party was broken up, and it made the news.[Unknown] OK.[Ed] I get calling the cops when a party is out of control.[Ed] Somebody parked on your lawn.[Ed] They're throwing up all over the place, whatever.[Ed] I get that.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] OK, wait.[Phoebe] But you have to tell them why it was called the crockpot party.[Ed] Oh, no, I'll get to that.[Phoebe] Oh, OK, OK.[Phoebe] I get to that.[Ed] I just had to preface it because this is, oh, god.[Unknown] Building it.[Unknown] OK.[Ed] So I get drunk in behavior.[Ed] I get the noise pollution.[Ed] You got the music cranked up to 11, right?[Ed] Like full on rock and roll party.[Ed] But if that's not going on, then why would you call the police?[Ed] Well, let's get into this story.[Ed] OK.[Ed] I've got some quotes here.[Unknown] This is really great.[Ed] Residents on Avery Way in Castle Rock[Ed] say organized sex parties at one home[Ed] are causing parking problems and noise.[Ed] Here you go.[Ed] But they are most concerned with the sexual nature[Ed] of those events and any exposure to children.[Ed] Another quote.[Phoebe] Wait.[Phoebe] Oh, are we going to do a close?[Ed] And then we're going to go through the discussion.[Unknown] OK.[Ed] Oh, my god.[Unknown] So many.[Ed] I think it is disgusting, one neighbor said.[Phoebe] OK.[Phoebe] I have comments on that too.[Phoebe] Keep going.[Ed] Some of them are so old that they[Ed] struggled walking up the stairs.[Unknown] The neighborhood said, OK.[Phoebe] Got it.[Ed] OK.[Ed] So let's talk about this for a little bit.[Unknown] OK.[Phoebe] So let's talk about one, the first quotes.[Phoebe] There's an any exposure to children.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] There are no children at Swinger parties.[Ed] If you have children at Swinger parties,[Ed] I hope you get arrested.[Phoebe] Right.[Ed] Absolute.[Phoebe] And I just love how people always[Phoebe] use the children card.[Phoebe] It's a children.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] It's a child rad.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] Just to make a big, like they're not even there.[Phoebe] They may try to make a big deal out of something.[Phoebe] That's nothing.[Ed] Now, what they were most concerned with is their children[Ed] having to know what was going on at the party,[Ed] or hear what was going on at the party,[Ed] or see what was going on at the party.[Phoebe] Like this is any different than at a hotel.[Phoebe] Guaranteed, 100%.[Phoebe] You're at Disney Hotel.[Phoebe] Oh, yeah.[Phoebe] And you hear Boots banging on the room next door to you,[Ed] because people have sex in hotels.[Phoebe] Because people have sex in hotels?[Ed] By the way, you're stealing one of our stories later,[Ed] but we'll keep going.[Phoebe] Sorry.[Phoebe] Well, but still, like, oh my god, the children heard.[Ed] Like, really?[Ed] And I think part of that is parents[Ed] don't want to have to explain that adults actually[Ed] have sex.[Ed] They don't know how to have that conversation with their kids.[Unknown] It's not that problem.[Ed] Guess what?[Ed] Children exist because adults had sex.[Ed] Oh, my god.[Ed] That's biology.[Ed] That's how it works.[Ed] If you didn't know that, I'm sorry, I broke the secret.[Unknown] But the fact is that it's not like they're doing this[Ed] on the front lawn.[Ed] They're doing it in the privacy of the house.[Ed] The curves are pulled.[Ed] There's nobody there.[Ed] And in this particular party,[Ed] I read through some more of the details from the hosts.[Ed] They'd soundproof the house to minimize[Ed] the amount of noise that could be heard.[Ed] They made sure that nothing that was going on[Ed] was going on outside in the backyard.[Ed] It was all indoors.[Phoebe] Like most responsible singers.[Ed] Most responsible swinger parties.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] But I think it's mostly the fear of what they don't know.[Ed] I know.[Unknown] They're thinking, I don't know what?[Ed] Goats are being sacrificed in the living room.[Ed] I don't know what they think goes on at swinger parties.[Ed] If they just watch our episodes,[Ed] they would know all about what happens at swinger parties.[Phoebe] Why can't they have the image that I have as a teenager[Phoebe] that sex parties were all Roman, Grecian, just like...[Phoebe] Well, maybe that's what they're thinking.[Unknown] And, you know, beds and pillows.[Ed] That's bad because the lights are on.[Phoebe] No, the lights are low and people are feeding you grapes[Phoebe] and you're getting fanned.[Phoebe] And it's just this low, nice hum.[Phoebe] And there's maybe harps in the background.[Phoebe] And that's just...[Phoebe] There's moaning and...[Ed] We went to a Togo party once.[Ed] That was fun.[Phoebe] It was fun.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] You picked up on the child aspect of this,[Unknown] but the thing that I was most concerned about[Ed] was the concern that they had[Ed] that there were sexual things going on at the event.[Ed] Okay.[Unknown] My argument is how many other parties[Ed] are drunken, disorderly behaviors going on.[Unknown] You're not concerned about that?[Ed] We need your help so that your community,[Ed] the very one you love and have so much fun with,[Ed] can also find our show.[Ed] Here's a really easy way to do that.[Ed] If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify,[Ed] hit that follow button and leave us a rating.[Ed] If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe[Ed] and turn on notifications.[Ed] We can't emphasize enough how much this helps[Ed] the Swinger community and it truly is up to you[Ed] to make that happen.[Ed] It makes a massive difference[Ed] in whether new listeners can even find us.[Ed] And here's the thing.[Ed] When someone searches Swinger Podcast,[Ed] the algorithm doesn't care how good our content is[Ed] or how long we've been around.[Ed] It only cares about ratings and reviews.[Ed] We'd appreciate it and your community[Unknown] will really appreciate it.[Unknown] Thanks for listening.[Unknown] And how many vanilla parties turn into a sex party[Phoebe] at the hot tub?[Phoebe] It just happened because it wasn't labeled[Phoebe] that way.[Phoebe] It was the barbecue on the 4th of July,[Phoebe] instead of a Swinger party.[Phoebe] But sex still happened.[Ed] Oh yeah, hot tubs are a gateway drug to swinging.[Ed] I'm just saying.[Ed] And we have a t-shirt.[Ed] All about that.[Phoebe] Yes, yes we do.[Ed] Thank you.[Ed] And I think the other one that I found was really funny[Ed] was some of them were so old that they struggled[Ed] walking up the stairs.[Phoebe] That's just shaming.[Phoebe] That's just blatant.[Phoebe] I think it's great.[Phoebe] They're just jealous.[Ed] Exactly.[Ed] Because if I was so old that I had a walker[Ed] and I was still going to Swinger parties.[Ed] Absolutely.[Ed] Cheers to you.[Ed] How are we present?[Ed] I'm just saying.[Ed] Cheers to you.[Ed] And we've heard.[Ed] We've heard it senior homes.[Ed] Oh God, yes.[Ed] The rampant sex that's going on there.[Ed] I mean, these people are turned up.[Ed] Oh yeah.[Ed] Turned up.[Ed] Yeah, they kind of have some STI problems[Ed] or other issues.[Ed] So neighbors are clearly projecting their own images.[Phoebe] Exactly.[Phoebe] The projection.[Phoebe] Exactly.[Phoebe] The projection, hence being the quote,[Phoebe] I think it's disgusting, poor, poor, poor individual[Phoebe] that thinks sex is disgusting.[Phoebe] I feel so bad for them.[Ed] So the worst part about this, besides the party getting[Ed] broken up, which is unfortunate, and the HOA[Ed] would got involved and all kinds of crap happened.[Ed] By the way, the crock part, crock part of this party,[Ed] just so we don't like drop that lead.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] One of the guests brought food and they happened[Ed] to bring it in a crock pot.[Ed] But the whole thing got named the crock pot party.[Phoebe] So one person brought it in a crock pot.[Ed] People were seeing bringing crock pots in for food.[Ed] I mean, it was a pot luck.[Ed] It happens.[Unknown] Right.[Unknown] Oh, man.[Ed] It's one thing to be offended by something[Ed] and call the police.[Ed] It's another to illegally block the driveways of the party[Ed] to key the cars of the party and cause who knows[Ed] how much financial damage to property.[Ed] So breaking the law to stop a perfectly legal party,[Ed] that's OK because sex is happening.[Phoebe] Oh my God.[Phoebe] Wow.[Ed] That's the mentality here.[Unknown] That just boggles the mind.[Ed] It just blows my mind.[Unknown] It's like, you're having sex.[Ed] I'm going to kill you.[Ed] What?[Unknown] Wait, what?[Ed] That escalated quickly.[Ed] Like, be offended.[Ed] Sit in your house and stew about it.[Unknown] Sure.[Ed] But to actually cause somebody else's property damage.[Phoebe] That really is the sexual pent up[Phoebe] energy and guilt and shame that a lot of people[Phoebe] have around sex.[Phoebe] And honestly, it's really sad.[Ed] It is.[Ed] It is.[Phoebe] It's tragic and it's devastating to people's lives[Unknown] to have that type of belief system or shame that you live with.[Ed] It's got to be debilitating to basically be just your[Ed] stunned at everything that goes on in the world.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] I mean, to just be so, it's like cutting off a limb.[Phoebe] I mean, you aren't, you aren't fully you.[Ed] Right.[Ed] Right.[Unknown] I mean, I have relatives that just coexist together in the[Ed] household.[Ed] And I get sexless marriages and how that can happen.[Ed] That's one story.[Ed] The other one that happened was one that happened to us.[Ed] Personally, we were at a local hotel party, not a takeover[Phoebe] because we don't fully take over the hotel.[Ed] Everyone always says they call them takeovers.[Ed] We're not going to takeovers.[Ed] But yes, somehow we actually know how there was a single male[Ed] who bought a hotel room but couldn't get tickets.[Ed] So he went to the media and basically outed the party to the[Ed] local news.[Ed] They showed up to try and find out what was going on at the sex[Unknown] party.[Ed] No hotel.[Phoebe] He actually found us on the internet.[Phoebe] They called us.[Ed] Yeah, they wanted us to comment on it.[Unknown] And I basically gave them the finger and had no interest in[Ed] contributing to that nonsense and what's funny is that single[Ed] male, of course, now is banned from those parties would never[Ed] be able to attend those again, potentially ruined it for[Ed] everybody who was there, potentially caused who knows how[Ed] much damage if the news had actually gotten in and outed[Ed] people, talk about doxing people, holy shit.[Ed] People could have lost their jobs.[Ed] They could have been who knows who knows what could happen.[Ed] Yeah, all because of one idiot pre buying tickets and not[Ed] realizing that it was already sold out and wanted to[Ed] refund.[Phoebe] He wasn't vetted.[Phoebe] I mean, as a single person, you always need to be vetted.[Ed] There was a whole bunch of stuff.[Ed] Now the interesting thing was the way that the news media took[Ed] it and the way that they interviewed casual people who are[Ed] vanilla people who happen to be walking by and the outrage[Ed] about, oh my god, they're having a sex party at a hotel.[Ed] To your point, anybody who's watching this right now or[Ed] listening to this podcast will tell you, they've heard[Ed] people having sex at hotels.[Ed] That's kind of what happens at hotels.[Ed] So to be offended that people are having sex at a hotel is[Ed] kind of like being offended that hotels exist.[Phoebe] So you're supposed to go on vacation and not have sex.[Phoebe] You're not supposed to have date night with your husband to[Phoebe] have a little staycation.[Phoebe] You go downtown, you get a hotel and you have sex in your hotel[Phoebe] because you don't can't make noise at home because you have kids.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] But you can't do that because it's a hotel.[Unknown] And you can't go on your honeymoon at the hotel in the honeymoon[Ed] suite, which by the way, most hotels have and have sex.[Ed] Why?[Ed] Because you shouldn't be having sex at a hotel.[Ed] People might, people, you might expose the children.[Ed] No, you're not going to expose the children.[Phoebe] Oh my god.[Phoebe] And that was the church lady face.[Ed] That was the church lady face.[Phoebe] I love Mr.[Ed] Could it be.[Phoebe] It could be.[Unknown] So that that was one of the examples, but I'm sure anybody[Ed] who's watching this can can cite other examples about how this[Ed] has happened or a party that's gotten broken up because the police[Ed] showed up.[Ed] We've been to parties.[Ed] The police show up and they go, guess what?[Ed] You're not breaking the law.[Ed] The music's not too loud because we can't hear it outside.[Ed] You just have a Karen neighbor who's calling something on you.[Ed] We actually did a whole Patreon episode about a party in the[Ed] neighbor and all that.[Ed] And the Karen.[Ed] Yep.[Unknown] Mm-hmm.[Ed] But they basically sorry to bother you, but we just have to do[Unknown] a check.[Ed] And you guys have a nice evening and they turn around and they[Ed] walk away.[Unknown] Yes.[Ed] They come back an hour later in plain clothes to join the party.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Unknown] Yeah.[Guest] No.[Guest] Damn it.[Unknown] I don't know.[Ed] A lot of, a lot of correctional officers in the lifestyle[Ed] just saying and nurses.[Unknown] Yes.[Unknown] Here's why we sail on Virgin.[Ed] It's adults only.[Ed] No kids screaming at breakfast.[Ed] No family buffet lines.[Ed] Just champagne at noon.[Ed] Late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there.[Unknown] So vibe.[Ed] Think boutique hotel that happens to float.[Ed] Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land.[Ed] Plus when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's[Ed] just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous.[Ed] No wonder bread cruisers here.[Ed] Just your people.[Unknown] That would have been awesome.[Ed] That would have been great.[Ed] What this all comes down to is what some people call pearl clutching and inflicting your[Ed] opinions on other people.[Unknown] For those of you who do not know what pearl clutching is, it's like, oh my god.[Ed] That's my best pearl clutching in personation.[Phoebe] So you're wearing a pearl necklace?[Phoebe] Of course, this is a date.[Phoebe] Right.[Ed] With a cardigan sweater and, you know, it's church lady.[Ed] It's church lady, right?[Phoebe] I take it.[Phoebe] It's a particular time in our culture, like what, fifties?[Ed] Yeah, maybe earlier, but yes, it's all about being mortified that someone's doing something[Ed] that you just can't imagine.[Ed] Yeah.[Phoebe] And casting judgment.[Unknown] Here's the thing.[Unknown] My deal is you don't have to condone it.[Ed] You don't agree with it?[Ed] Fine.[Ed] Don't.[Unknown] Don't give it your, you know, approval.[Unknown] Sure.[Ed] Don't participate in it.[Ed] You don't like it?[Ed] Party.[Ed] You don't have to.[Ed] We're not dragging you in.[Ed] So why do you care so much?[Ed] Why do you care what other people are doing if it, especially if it doesn't, because in fact[Phoebe] you, because it directly goes up against their belief system.[Phoebe] Sure.[Unknown] So if they were a gray person and they're like, you know, it's not really my thing, but[Phoebe] I really don't care what people do.[Phoebe] That'd be a gray person.[Phoebe] They're a very black one and white person, right?[Phoebe] And you get, let's say they're, it's either right or it's wrong.[Phoebe] Yes.[Phoebe] It's either left or it's, it's not in between.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] And so you've got this, you know, hard belief system, a strong opposing belief system coming[Phoebe] up against yours, it's going to create a lot of discomfort in you.[Phoebe] And so it's going to create a big reaction.[Phoebe] Would you, would you say highly opinionated people, immovable, unshakable people are going[Phoebe] to have these types of reactions?[Ed] Well, I guess it depends, I think, on what your opinion is, right?[Ed] Because you could be highly opinionated like us that say, it's okay.[Ed] And it's perfectly acceptable behavior for adults to do what they want to do.[Phoebe] But generally you and I are open-minded people.[Unknown] There are many things that we don't like or understand or isn't for us.[Phoebe] But we don't put upon others.[Ed] That's the key.[Unknown] It's a difference between having an opinion and telling other people what their opinions[Ed] need to be or how they need to act.[Ed] I get and I 100% of support your right to be offended.[Unknown] You want us to occupy your brain.[Ed] Then fine.[Ed] Think about us all day and all the naughty stuff we're doing.[Ed] Be mad about it.[Unknown] Be mad about it.[Unknown] But what I don't understand is why you could, A, come tell me that what I'm doing is wrong.[Ed] I'm an adult.[Ed] I get to make my own decisions.[Ed] Congratulations.[Phoebe] Yay, that's the beauty of being an adult.[Ed] I turn 18.[Ed] I get to do what I want.[Ed] I turn 21.[Ed] I get to drink if I want to.[Unknown] You don't have to drink.[Ed] If you're 21, but if you aren't 21, you can.[Ed] That's my right to be able to do that.[Ed] I'll give a lifestyle example.[Ed] We don't enjoy heavy impact play.[Ed] Right.[Ed] We're just not into that kink.[Ed] It doesn't do anything for us.[Ed] But I'm not going to ask the manager to ban it.[Ed] Right?[Ed] I'm not going to walk up and I need to speak to the manager, please.[Unknown] You need to stop that.[Ed] Stop doing a lot of impersonation, impersonation, say.[Ed] Because I don't think it's my right to yuck somebody else's yom.[Ed] I don't think it's my right to say what I believe everybody has to believe.[Ed] I don't believe that swinging is for everybody.[Ed] I like swinging, but I 100% believe that it is not for every individual.[Ed] There are so many people who should just not swing.[Phoebe] Absolutely.[Ed] Absolutely.[Ed] Just stop.[Ed] Don't do it.[Unknown] I mean, you're being a little funny about that.[Phoebe] But I understand.[Phoebe] Yes.[Phoebe] It isn't for everybody.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Ed] If you're a serial cheater.[Phoebe] Does that sports aren't for me?[Ed] 100% and I will probably never surf again because I don't like any sports.[Phoebe] That's just not my thing.[Phoebe] I won't watch them.[Phoebe] I won't talk about why I know nothing, jack shit about them.[Ed] Most sports.[Ed] The indoor sports?[Phoebe] You're 100% about them.[Phoebe] I do know some stuff about cycling.[Unknown] That's because of you.[Unknown] Yeah.[Phoebe] And maybe some pickleball.[Ed] And pickleball.[Ed] We're starting to learn about pickleball.[Ed] Oh, my gosh.[Ed] It's the greatest rage, although we're not going to pick up break dancing again.[Ed] We saw what happened with Australia.[Unknown] That was not good.[Ed] So we've talked about why people shouldn't do it and kind of what happens.[Ed] And let's talk a little bit about what we think kind of is driving all of this.[Ed] We touched on it a little bit.[Ed] Yeah.[Phoebe] Oh, yeah.[Unknown] Another aspect could be what I think it's jealousy.[Ed] Like you said, wishing they could be there, wishing that they could have the freedom to[Ed] express themselves even in their own relationships.[Ed] There are a lot of people who participate with swinging who do not actually swap with[Ed] other couples.[Ed] They just play on the bed next to other people.[Ed] They just play in the same room.[Ed] Why?[Unknown] Because it's kind of sexy.[Ed] It's fun.[Phoebe] It's very sexy.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] We met a couple from North Carolina in Costa Rica who 100% were not swingers.[Ed] They were dedicated to each other.[Ed] They had made the decision that they were not going to play with other people.[Ed] It's unfortunate because they were very sexy.[Ed] And we spent a lot of time talking with them.[Ed] And we did.[Ed] I think we ended up going to a playroom and playing next to them.[Ed] I don't think we did.[Ed] We didn't end up playing.[Ed] We missed it.[Ed] We missed an opportunity with that.[Phoebe] They were leaving just as we were coming.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] But they weren't offended by it.[Phoebe] No.[Ed] They weren't jealous of it because they're like, hey, you guys do your thing.[Unknown] We've got our own thing.[Ed] We're able to express how we feel in our relationship.[Ed] We're having a great time.[Ed] We just like being in the sexy atmosphere.[Ed] Yeah.[Unknown] And you know what?[Ed] No offences.[Unknown] We're taken.[Phoebe] Yep.[Phoebe] They were so cute.[Phoebe] I love them.[Phoebe] I can see them right now.[Phoebe] They're faces.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Ed] Because we spent a lot of time talking to them.[Ed] We did.[Ed] We spent a lot of an Ella time talking with them.[Ed] It was great.[Phoebe] They're so fun.[Unknown] I wish they were supposed to build a naked Airbnb in North Carolina.[Unknown] That's right.[Ed] I wonder if they ever did that.[Phoebe] I don't know if they did.[Phoebe] I reached out to her about a year ago to see if they check up on that.[Phoebe] I should check up on that.[Ed] Hmm.[Ed] North Carolina.[Phoebe] Here we come.[Phoebe] Because she said we were we were always welcome.[Unknown] What's that?[Ed] Although in North Carolina, I think was one of those states where we could be arrested[Ed] for it.[Ed] I don't know.[Ed] Maybe we don't go.[Ed] Although, if we're going with them, then we wouldn't be committing adultery because they[Ed] wouldn't swap with them.[Ed] That's right.[Ed] Oh, we're safe.[Ed] We're back on.[Ed] It's just nudism.[Phoebe] Trish back on.[Ed] Okay.[Ed] As far as I know, being naked in North Carolina is not illegal in public, yeah.[Phoebe] I guess.[Ed] Or outside.[Ed] The other one.[Ed] And I'm going to I'm going to go there and this is going to cause problems.[Ed] Maybe.[Unknown] I don't know.[Ed] It's religion.[Ed] We talked about the Puritans and founding the country on kind of that belief system.[Ed] Right.[Ed] Not that the country was founded on Christianity, but that a lot of those kind of religious beliefs[Unknown] came over at that time.[Ed] There were a whole bunch of different religious beliefs that came over at the same time.[Ed] But kind of that foundational belief is that there's this moral code and there's a set[Ed] of rules that have to be followed.[Unknown] And there are there's a segment of that population that believes that it is their moral imperative[Ed] to tell other people to save other people, what it comes down to.[Ed] Right.[Ed] And they think that it's their duty to save us from our sins.[Unknown] Right.[Unknown] That's great.[Ed] I think most people who are adults and who are making adult decisions have already decided[Ed] what they want to do and don't necessarily want to be told by other adults what to do[Ed] and what not to do.[Unknown] I'll give them an example.[Ed] Imagine Satanists coming in and it's their moral imperative to tell evangelicals how[Unknown] they have to act.[Ed] How offended would evangelicals be if the Satanists walk up to them and you're not supposed[Unknown] to do that.[Ed] You're supposed to sacrifice the goat, not to say this sacrifice goat, I'm making things[Phoebe] up.[Ed] Yes.[Ed] An unsensical example just to prove a point.[Phoebe] I know this happens all the time.[Unknown] The atheists and the, let's see the other one, agnostics, agnostics.[Phoebe] We don't say anything, right?[Phoebe] They don't say anything.[Ed] No.[Ed] We want adults to make up their own minds.[Phoebe] And the very religious think that they can just put upon.[Unknown] And sometimes I feel like saying, you know, if you do it, why can't I do it?[Unknown] Right.[Unknown] I had a friend, a coworker one time, say to me, she's like, yeah, when people say, I'll[Unknown] pray for you.[Unknown] She goes, I'll light a candle for you.[Phoebe] Like a witch, because she was wicked.[Ed] Oh.[Unknown] So she, so she said, I'll light a candle for you.[Ed] Wow.[Ed] That could be, you could interpret that Roman Catholicly.[Phoebe] That's true.[Phoebe] Yes.[Phoebe] So they may have not gotten it.[Phoebe] But when she described that she was wicked, it's inside joke, though.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] But I think, I think that that's, I think that's the key difference in why you and I really[Ed] like the swinging community.[Ed] Because we are open-minded.[Ed] Doesn't matter.[Ed] We do not yuck other people's young.[Ed] No.[Ed] We are not there to tell people that they have to be a size two and have a particular physical[Ed] appearance or like a particular thing or you're not a swinger if you don't do full swap.[Ed] We don't judge people.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Phoebe] There's a lot of religious beliefs in the lifestyle and I know a lot of Mormons who are[Ed] Oh, by the way, there's a TV show coming out this Friday.[Ed] There are a lot of religious-minded people who are in the lifestyle.[Ed] We've met them.[Ed] Absolutely.[Phoebe] We've met lots of them.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Phoebe] Paradise people.[Ed] Sure.[Unknown] I know.[Ed] But they're also clearly not forming the opinions that we're talking about here.[Phoebe] Putting their beliefs upon other people, you know, it's kind of silly to, they're open-minded,[Phoebe] obviously.[Ed] At least about swinging.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] Who knows about anything else?[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] Which kind of brings me to the last thing before we do our wrap up, which is this, we've[Ed] been joking a little bit about this, but it's not really a joking matter.[Ed] It's actually really serious and it's a big problem in this country where we feel like[Ed] we have the right to tell other people how to live their lives.[Unknown] There's a difference between telling people not to do something for public safety, drinking[Ed] and driving, for example, or to wear helmets because the burden on the system, everybody[Unknown] paying for funerals and ambulance services, et cetera, I have to pay for somebody who's[Ed] maimed themselves and blown themselves all over the freeway.[Ed] By the way, I ride motorcycles.[Ed] I'm 100% for helmet laws because I understand what happens.[Unknown] But that's not what this is about.[Ed] This isn't about public safety.[Ed] This isn't about protecting your neighbors from something happening as much as you think[Ed] children might be involved unless they're drilling holes through the walls and peeping[Ed] in.[Unknown] They're not going to see anything because that's, it's not that kind of party.[Phoebe] And children are never at the homes or in the hotel rooms.[Phoebe] So they would even be there to drill the hole.[Phoebe] I know.[Unknown] It's ridiculous.[Phoebe] It just doesn't happen.[Ed] So yes, we as a country need to stop telling adults what to do unless it's a matter of[Ed] public safety or national security or something, right?[Ed] Like setting fireworks off and blowing up your neighbor's house.[Unknown] Don't do it.[Unknown] It's bad.[Ed] But swinging, nobody's getting hurt, it makes ever maybe a little impact play.[Ed] But then there's consent.[Phoebe] What about the STIs?[Phoebe] Oh, yeah.[Phoebe] Okay, devil's advocate.[Ed] All right.[Phoebe] Let's play devil's advocate.[Phoebe] STIs.[Phoebe] Sure.[Phoebe] The wood of swinging gets out of control, right?[Phoebe] Everyone's doing it.[Phoebe] And now the STIs are going up, up, up, up, up, up.[Ed] If you're not having sex with swingers, then you're not going to catch them.[Phoebe] That's true.[Ed] So if you are monogamous and you are staying home and you have the lights off and you're[Ed] having sex with your partner, you're not going to catch an STI from the neighbors across[Ed] the street.[Phoebe] It doesn't work like that.[Ed] Unless you're also sharing needles with that neighbor.[Ed] And if you're doing that, that's a whole other thing.[Phoebe] Yeah, that's a whole other thing.[Unknown] Yeah, the epidemic of STIs, if potentially, let's carry that further.[Ed] Let's say it does become epidemic and it becomes a burden on the healthcare system.[Ed] Yeah, I think that would be a problem.[Ed] But the problem isn't swinging.[Phoebe] The problem is STIs or the problem is using appropriate protection, which for most STIs[Phoebe] not all is a condom.[Ed] Absolutely.[Ed] That is the biggest reducer of it.[Ed] And getting tested regularly helps you to know whether you are infected with something.[Phoebe] So that you can address that with an antibiotic or whatever is needed.[Ed] And or stop playing within the community so you don't spread it.[Phoebe] Right.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] Yes.[Phoebe] It's no different than if you were a single person.[Unknown] Right.[Ed] Absolutely.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] Although single people shouldn't be having sex out of wedlock, right?[Ed] Oh, my God.[Ed] That's right.[Ed] That's right.[Phoebe] So they have it wrong fornicators fornicators.[Phoebe] Oh, my God.[Ed] So in conclusion, yes, it's wrapped this up because this is just a just a nightmare swinging[Ed] may not be for everyone, but neither is baseball, knitting or skydiving.[Unknown] Wait.[Phoebe] Okay.[Phoebe] baseball.[Phoebe] I agree.[Phoebe] Knitting.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Unknown] I haven't mastered that.[Phoebe] Crossed it.[Phoebe] I have.[Ed] And I have done skydiving.[Ed] You have done skydiving.[Phoebe] But you know what?[Phoebe] There are a lot of people who are not interested in skydiving.[Phoebe] Oh, that's right.[Phoebe] But if you are the drow and rush is real.[Ed] There you go.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Ed] I don't know.[Ed] Maybe.[Unknown] Right.[Ed] I don't.[Ed] Can't say.[Ed] Should anyone be allowed to force their personal choices on other adults?[Ed] Like I said, barring public safety.[Ed] This is a question that I'm asking you guys.[Ed] What about the choices of consenting to adults in the privacy of their homes?[Ed] Should adults be able to have vibrators, for example, which are, by the way, they are[Ed] trying to ban contraception and vibrators.[Ed] There were laws in Texas for a long time about ordering vibrators.[Ed] It was an offense.[Unknown] If, and you could, you could be breaking the law because you.[Phoebe] Oh, my God.[Phoebe] I'm going to say it.[Ed] Fucking bought a vibrator.[Ed] It's ridiculous.[Ed] It's one thing to have an opinion.[Ed] It's another to inflict your opinion on other people.[Ed] Let us know in the comments whether you agree with us or you think we're just barking[Ed] up the wrong tree.[Phoebe] But you're going to say, batshit crazy.[Unknown] Well, that too.[Ed] Or you can call us at our number 1916-538-0482, tell us all of your thoughts if you want[Unknown] to.[Ed] Or you can email us and reach out to us at SwingerUniversity.com.[Unknown] And be sure to check out all of our extra content at patreon.com, forward slash SwingerUniversity.[Ed] Once again, thank you all for listening.[Ed] This has been a bit of a rant, but I think it's an important topic, and it's one that[Ed] affects all of us in the community, and anybody else who maybe participates in a hobby[Ed] that they think other people have a strong opinion about.[Phoebe] Now, let's go eat that crock-pot meal.[Ed] Hmm.[Ed] I think our guests are arriving.[Unknown] Oh, one last thing before you go.[Ed] If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the[Ed] show is leaving a rating and review.[Ed] It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship[Unknown] education.[Unknown] And we've made it easy.[Ed] Visit SwingerUniversity.com, forward slash review.[Unknown] All the instructions are there.[Ed] Thank you for being part of this community.[Ed] We'll see you again soon.