Kissing and Telling: Is Sharing Sexy Stories Ever Okay?

In this episode of Swinger University, Ed and Phoebe dive into the nuances of "kissing and telling" within the swinger lifestyle. Explore the origins of this concept and how it contrasts between "vanilla" and lifestyle communities. We discuss social expectations, double standards, and when sharing experiences might actually serve a purpose—like building trust, creating safety, and helping others find compatible partners.

Discover the fine line between healthy disclosure and TMI, and learn why "kissing and telling" in the swinger community is often more than gossip. Join us as we tackle questions like:

• Why might it be essential to share some details with trusted friends?
• How does sharing sexy stories strengthen bonds in the lifestyle?
• When should you stay silent to avoid unintended harm?

Highlights:

• Origins & Social Standards: Why "kissing and telling" has been taboo since 1695.
• Swinger vs. Vanilla Perspectives: How relationship dynamics shape our views on privacy and openness.
• When to Share: Tips for safely navigating disclosure in tight-knit communities.
• Public Service Announcements: When sharing can prevent harm or protect others.

Tune in to hear real-life examples and valuable advice to make informed choices in your relationships.

Hashtags

#SwingerLifestyle #KissAndTell #EthicalNonMonogamy #Swingers #RelationshipAdvice #SexPositive #SwingerPodcast #SwingerUniversity

Highlight Summary

1. Intro to "Kissing and Telling" - Ed and Phoebe discuss how "kissing and telling" impacts social dynamics in both the vanilla and swinger worlds.
2. History and Double Standards - An exploration of how society's double standards affect men and women differently.
3. Boundaries in Sharing - Understanding when it's okay to share details and when it's best to keep things private.
4. Why Sharing Matters in the Lifestyle - Reasons why sharing can help create safety, trust, and better experiences within the swinger community.
5. Public Safety Concerns - Examples of when sharing information serves the greater good.
6. Practical Tips for Disclosure - Best practices

Transcript

0:37

Do you kiss and tell? We do. Why would you kiss and tell? And why wouldn't you? Is it socially acceptable? How is it different from the vanilla life versus the swinger life? Welcome to Swinger University. I'm Ed. And I'm Phoebe. And today, we're going to talk about kissing and telling. Yes, it is a controversial topic in the lifestyle. And you are either in one camp or the other. Some people try to bridge both camps, and it gets awkward. So we're going to help you navigate this minefield of kiss and tell. Well, we wouldn't be Swinger University if we didn't give you a little bit of educational background about kissing and telling. Of course. Turns out, this idiom originated in 1695. It alluded to betraying an amorous or sexual intimacy, which is what we all know it to be. So that still exists hundreds of years later. And it is still socially unacceptable today. So we learn this when we're growing up, right? You hear about so and so are together. They're a thing. They're going steady. They're dating. They're hooking up, whatever it is now. The phrase changes every decade. But the concept is still the same. And you don't really talk about who you're dating or what you're doing when you're dating, right? Like you don't want that to get out. Right. There's also this double standard for when you're coming of age, right? You're becoming more sexually active. So for guys, you're seen as being more experienced. And for women, you're seen as being a slut. Now things have changed in this decade, but I still think that double standard exists. Yeah, I think that younger generations are definitely more open about their sexuality and they're more comfortable with a lot more things, which is fantastic. Yes. But there is still a double standard in terms of, as an example, body count, how many people you've slept with. Right. There are a lot of people who still think that a high body count is a bad thing. There are guys on the internet that I have seen post things that if the woman has had sex at all, then she's not wife material. Ruined. Right. Right. It doesn't work that way, but that's one of the standards that people have come up with. Yeah, and these labels do follow you through life, especially your young life, even after high school and into college. So it's a hard label to shake if you're socially labeled as loose or... I can't say this word. Promiscuous. Promiscuous. It was a song. Why don't you sing it? I'm not gonna sing that song. Man, I've busted out in songs. It's your turn. Yeah, but I'm not a singer. That's okay. Obviously this is a Swinger podcast, and so we talk about all things kind of ethically non-monogamous, et cetera. So there's a lot of stuff that's kind of okay and permitted for us. We're allowed to be promiscuous. We're supposed to be. Right. But in vanilla life, it still is a little bit different. Sharing details with your friends. Typically people don't do that. So if you're dating a woman, let's say we're in our twenties and you're dating another woman and I'm your guy friend, and you're really going into the details of this woman that you had sex with. Right. And you're sharing it with your good guy friend, now it's getting serious, and now you want your guy friend to meet her because she's potentially going to be your wife. Right. That's gonna be awkward. What if she finds out that you shared, the best man in the wedding knows all the kinky details of your sex life. Right. It could be a little awkward. Right. So I get that people aren't divulging all this kiss and tell information in the vanilla life. It makes sense to me. Yeah. And I think that there's that level of what is TMI, what is too much information. Right. And I think it's one thing to say that you're dating somebody and something completely different if you're going into pornographic vivid details about what you're doing with that person. Right. Now, if this is a random hookup, I also think that there's a different standard for that too. That's true. You kind of talk about your conquests. Right. Male or female. Right. So let's talk about how that is different in vanilla life versus swinger life. Because if you have a random DTF and vanilla life, it seems like the standard is different. You would divulge as a guy, maybe I'm using guys, I'm picking on them. And maybe women do this too. You divulge that as some really hot sex. He was a great lay, but he's a friends with benefits, but nothing more. And you give all the juicy details. Cause you know, he's not husband material or wife material, right? Right. Or you'll never see them again because it was a hundred percent random. Right. But in a swinger situation, you wouldn't do that because you're in the community and it's a tight knit community. Right. So the random guy, which picked up from a bar, probably never ever gonna see him again. You're not gonna travel in the same social circles. Who cares? Right. But in the swinger community, that's way different. If it's a DTF. Yeah, it is different because it is a closed community because we're in the secret organization of the pineapple. Right. We kind of know each other or we've know of people. So even though you may not hook up with them again, you're still gonna hear about that and potentially run into them at the next big event or the next big party. Right, right. So there's this, this is why I think it's important to break down where is it socially unacceptable and why? Why did it originate that way? And is that the rule different in the swinger community versus the vanilla community? Right. Right? So the lifestyle lends itself really to talk about sexy things. We're a community that bonds together. We're very open when we're with each other. And even though most swingers aren't out, they're dying to talk about their sexy adventures and sharing it with their new swinger friends. And yet some of us are like, oh, I don't kiss and tell. Right. Which kind of puts a damper on the conversation because you wanna share sexy experiences. You wanna kind of give people some information that you're maybe who you play with or a little bit more about. You wrap outside of the regular, oh, we're soft and we're full swap. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing about the lifestyle and having this kind of open community and sex positive community is we should be able to express ourselves sexually. We should be able to talk about the sex that we're having. Obviously we're having sex with other people. So it's not just us talking about our sex life. That's kind of boring. It's talking about the random sex or the orgy that you had and who was there and the amazing things that you saw. Why? Because these people will actually get it. They're like, oh, I missed that party. I wish I was there. Or I went to a similar party and this is what happened at that event. Let's get into some when you should do it and then we're gonna get into reasons why you might do it, okay? All right. So when you should do it, always with somebody you trust and to do it for a good reason. Don't do it for nefarious reasons or to make yourself important and go into more reasons about that. Yeah, and for some of those nefarious reasons, the gossipy reasons, we did an episode and I'll link to it here about gossip. Right. So here are some reasons why you might want to kiss and tell. Your girlfriend in the lifestyle wants a good single male reference. How are you supposed to give her a reference if you can't kiss and tell? Right. You've got someone who's looking for a playful couple, maybe very respectful, maybe they're kink-driven or BDSM-driven and you're looking for that specific thing that they have to offer, you would want to disclose that, right? Going back to the single male, if I were a single male or even as a couple, I want a good recommendation. Absolutely. On a lot of the social sites, there's actually a way to give people little certifications so you can give them the seal of approval that they were a good time or they were great fun, great conversationalist, whatever, however you want to write your review about it. But that word of mouth is what gets you in the door for those other parties or with other couples. So it's kind of key to having that word of mouth spread. So kissing and telling actually kind of opens doors for you. It does open doors and it actually helps the community. I can't tell you how many times I've had private house party hosts reach out to me and say, hey, do you have a respectable single male that you've played with that you could recommend for my house party? I've got three unicorns coming and I need to pack in some single males for them and for some other couples that I know are seeking single males. Right. How are you supposed to do that if you can't get it? Yep, you almost have to do it. Right, right. Within reason. But as they say, with great power comes great responsibility. So. Yes. So we touched on a little bit of like BDSM or other kinks that you're into. Maybe you're a size queen. How are, now we're starting to get into details more, right? So if someone doesn't know what a size queen is. What is a size queen, baby? You say what a size queen is. No, you say. You say, woo. A size queen is a woman who's looking for a man who's very girthy. Usually it's girth over length, but it's the girth because they really want to be filled. Right. They want to feel that pressure. So that for them is very enjoyable and that's how their body works and what's fun and stimulating for them. So they, if they're going to spend the time getting ready and make the date, blah, blah, blah, you all know how this goes. That's the experience they want to have. Yeah. Maybe aesthetically you really like the girthy look. Right. Or that's what you want to suck on or fondle. Then you have to be able to describe, hey, yeah, this guy's got a really big, awful, you know? Right. When is it bad to kiss and tell? This is where it starts to get into what the motivation for kissing and telling. Right. So if you're telling someone to give them a good recommendation or to help them, that seems like a positive thing. But on the other hand, if you're seeking to cause damage or harm or spread misinformation about somebody, then it's not so good. Now, here's an interesting question that we should pose to people. If you have a bad experience with a couple or you have something that maybe is dangerous that happens with a couple, that's a bad thing, but is it bad to pass that on? I don't think so because you're not doing it to make yourself look good. You have to be really careful when you're sharing that information. Are you thinking about the safety and wellbeing of somebody else? Are you thinking about the safety and wellbeing of the community? Or are you just doing it to ruin somebody or make yourself look like you're really important or something, right? Those motivations are completely different. Now, I will say that if someone is motivated by those things, this particular episode is not going to dissuade them from moving in those ways. If you're listening to this and you're one of those people, stop it. It's not okay. And really think about the overall harm that you're doing to the community and to the people who are around you. Right. So let's give some examples as to what would be okay to say. Sure. I have said in the past, they were a very fun couple. Right? It's pretty benign. It wasn't a lot of great detail. They were a very fun couple. We really enjoyed their company. They're fun in the bedroom. They like to laugh and play. Right. What's wrong with that? Yeah, it's fun. It's playful. It gives a sense of their personality and potential fun in terms of sexual activities. But it doesn't go into explicit detail. It doesn't help them in any particular way. Right. Well, and I just realized it's obvious we kiss and tell because we do that in our Patreon episodes. And if you haven't checked those out, you might want to. And of course, we do not use role names and we change the venue and we change the time and we change the location. So no one can figure it out. Do this on purpose just to mess with you. Well, and to protect your identity. So. To protect the innocent.(laughs) I've also said things like, oh, her man is really good at oral. Right? What other compliments have you said or given to women before I get into the little more touchy things that are okay to say? Yeah. My compliments around women in the lifestyle tend to be things like she's attentive or she's very gentle or she tends to be a little aggressive but not in a bad way. Right, because some people like that forward aggressiveness. Very assertive women. Yes. And that can be pretty fun and sexy. Let's get into. This is the controversial part. So these are the kissing and telling that we almost classify them as public service announcements. Yes. They're a little bit of a, yeah. Yeah. Let's before we get into the, because it's a bit of a story, let's get into STIs first and then we'll go into story time about the big one. I've had people kiss and tell to me about other couples with an STI. Right. I'm a little on the fence about what to do with that information, right? Right. Because everybody's risk level is different. While I appreciate somebody giving me the information and they probably did so out of public awareness or safety. And I can choose to ignore that information or take that on and do some further research. Like what kind of STI is it, right? And how does that impact me? My risk level is going to be different from everybody else's risk level. So for me, when somebody gives me that information, I'm not the kind of person that directly just writes them off. Right. Especially if it's from somebody I don't know really well but if it's somebody I know really well and I trust, then it- It has a little more weight to it. Right. For sure. Exactly. We've heard couples being kind of outed for having an STI before. And for us, it's always a little bit of a challenge knowing how accurate that information is, where did they hear it from? Like if it showed up in a test and they saw the test results, that's clear. Or not clear, but it's obvious that that's true. Right. So I think with this particular one, I would avoid relying on that secondhand statement. And if you think that there's a possibility, just ask for their test results. It's that simple. Right. Or ask them, yeah, straight up. Hey, we've heard. I don't know. We've never approached anybody and said, hey, we've heard you. And we've never revealed that about anyone. And I feel like that's very personal. That's something between us and them. Let's just say we got an STI. You and I get tested, we're like, holy shit, we have an STI. Now we gotta go trace back to individuals we slept with over the last three months because there's an incubation period, everybody. Right. So we go back to those couples and say, hey, we got an STI, we don't know if it's from you, but we need to let you know. This is what it is. You may wanna get tested. Please report back to us. You're having an intimate conversation with them and everybody's reaction is going to be different. So why, if you're having this conversation with somebody and you've got some trust and an open line of communication, I don't see why I would feel the need to broadcast that to the community. Unless maybe you've got somebody with a known STI and they're lying to people and they're just going around sleeping with people in the community and you feel like that's a public service announcement. Yeah, and the one example that I can think of is the individual who has a tendency to slip their condom off and have unprotected sex with people. And we have passed that information onto close friends. So can you imagine combining those two, they had an STI and they're known to slip their condom off. That's really bad. And that's something that as a community, I think people would appreciate knowing what was going on. Right, yeah. And the condom, pulling off the condom, we have talked about that before. That did happen to me. I did get that information, I believe after I had had sex with this individual. And I said, "Huh, that's interesting. That didn't happen with me, okay." Note to self, it didn't preclude me from having sex with that individual again, but I was aware, more aware of that. Right, you were sensitive to that happening. Occurring, so I would continually check to make sure it was there. Now, it wasn't, you know, I'm a little worried about it, right? So my experience isn't that great because now I've got this thing in the back of my head. Right, right. So. Kinda takes the fun out of it. And then it did happen, right? I flipped over and doggy, I couldn't monitor that and oops, it magically slipped off. So then we went through the whole testing and abstinence thing. And with that particular situation, that was one where with really good friends who had mentioned that person's name, we did mention that they needed to be aware that that had happened and you had heard of that happening with somebody else. And that's one of those things where we didn't broadcast it in the podcast, we didn't talk about it to everybody, but we certainly passed it along to the people who we knew directly were in contact with that person. Right, right. So it was very on the download with a trusted individual, yes. Right, and even with that, you still feel a little weird about passing that information on because could have been an accident, probably wasn't, but it could have been. Right, right. So there's that fine line between caring for your fellow man and woman and not kissing and telling, right? Yeah. That's where that difference comes in, where your public safety to a trusted individual versus broadcasting everywhere for nefarious reasons. Exactly, exactly. All right, well, let's get into this story. This other story. So this is one that we'd had conversations with one of our local hotwives. Yes, we love her and we trust her. Yeah, and we've had some great conversations with her about a lot of different stuff. And she is a long time sex worker and very experienced. So we really value her opinion. She's given me lots of advice over the years. Right, and it had been proposed that the four of us get together. So this lady and another gentleman and we played with the idea. We're still playing with the idea. We got a really strange phone call from her one day. I know that you play with this gentleman and I wanted to let you know what had happened. But it was vaguer than that. The message didn't give us any details. It was just, I need to talk to you. Yeah. We get on the phone with her and she starts going into detail about this incident that happened with this gentleman who you've had two positive experiences with. Yeah, they were great. 100%. I was recommending him everywhere. Right. Yeah, they were awesome. So for her to start relaying what had occurred was shocking. I mean, I was floored. I almost thought she was talking about somebody else. Right, because it was such a huge disconnect from the person that we knew or at least the experiences we'd had with that person. Well, here's the question, Ed. Yes. Do we say what had happened to her? Let's just say consent for this particular level of kink and impact play was not granted, was not given. And it came out of nowhere. And pictures were sent to us because I had a hard, not because I had a hard time believing it. I already had a hard time believing it. And she graciously sent us photos. I didn't request them, she sent them. Right. And I was like, "Oh, I'm sorry. It was way worse than I had imagined." Right, because we were picturing what it was. We were trying to imagine what had happened and the severity of it. And the pictures painted it in a totally different, like, "Oh, that's not a minor thing. Was there a police report filed?" I mean, like that kind of level. Yeah. It was shocking. It was very shocking. So she had reached out as a safety concern to us. And I was really appreciative of that. And it was, you and I kept trying to make sense of it. And the only thing we could think of was maybe because you were in the room with- It didn't happen. With me that it didn't occur. And she didn't have anyone else in the room with her. And maybe that's why it occurred. Which makes it even worse, but- I know. Yeah. What it did set up for us was the solo hot wife play situation or the separate room hot wife situation. We now started to see that there's some risks. You've got to really trust that person. And this was a situation where we go, maybe we didn't know them as well as what we thought we did. And we need to be careful in the future. So if anything, it was a cautionary tale for us because we were starting to experiment more with single males. And I think it was that situation that made us go, I think I'm gonna have a nice seat in the room and observe for a while, or at least be present in the house for those kinds of play situations. Right. And what ended up happening after their session together, this individual, he became very distant. He wasn't his normal self. His pattern of communication had changed. And I couldn't help but maybe infer that, maybe he was ashamed or embarrassed, but he really, we hadn't written him completely off the table either because he was so fun to play with. And I thought, well, let's have another date and we'll have a conversation, not a play date. We'll have a drink date, we'll have a conversation and just find out what's going on. But he basically just ghosted us at some point. And so now I can't help but think, well, maybe he found out somehow that she was spreading the word. I have no idea. Yeah, or just that we knew her and him. And that was enough of a connection where he thought maybe she would pass that on. And he was too embarrassed, I don't know. Right. Yeah, so. Little bit of guilt involved, which is probably good. Maybe he'll learn from that experience. Maybe you won't do that again, that would be fantastic. And, because otherwise, like you said, it was a great experience. So that was a really good example of kiss and tell for public safety reasons. And once again, I love to take in all information, assess that for myself, and information is power. And so now I'm armed with more information that is potentially unsafe for me, but I still wanted to inquire with him, hey, what happened? We heard this thing, we've enjoyed your company. Let's hear your side. But we never got that opportunity because he ghosted us. Yeah, and I think anytime we've ever heard rumors or feedback about someone, we always like to confirm, especially when we hear there are a lot of fun. We absolutely have to confirm that because I'm not gonna take anybody's word for that. Like that's just hearsay, I need proof. Woo-hoo, absolutely, 100%. So this is why we like to kiss and tell. It's got its place in the community. And as individuals, we all love to share sexy stories. We all look out for each other's safety, especially at events. And I think it has a place in the Swanger community that you can say what you want to say without being too detailed or too graphic. Right, the right level of information. Yeah. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining us and our community. And as I always say, don't forget your homework. Tell us what you want to say. Tell a friend about our show and leave a review and comment. We'd love to hear your thoughts about kissing and telling. So leave your comments down below. And if you don't want to leave a comment, at least leave us a thumbs up. We appreciate all of you and your feedback and your interaction with our channel. You can also, if you're even bolder and you would like to kiss and tell, we would appreciate you leaving us a voicemail at 916-538-0482. And if you're worried about your voice being recognized, just let us know. We can change it and make you sound like Darth Vader. Or Minnie Mouse. Or the Princess Bride. Yeah, we can change your voice if you need to. You can also reach out to us at swingaruniversity.com. Our website, there's contact information. We even have a mailing list. So if you want to hear about all the stuff that we're doing, check out swingaruniversity.com. And as always, keep learning, keep growing and keep it sexy. Bye everyone.