Unlock Your Best Sex Life with Ashley Manta - Mindfulness, Cannabis, and Consent

Discover the secrets to becoming the lover everyone dreams of with Ashley Manta, an award-winning sex educator and certified sexologist. In this episode of Swinger University, Ed and Phoebe explore transformative topics like mindfulness in intimacy, the role of cannabis in enhancing connection, consent, STI prevention (including the dreaded HSV/Herpes), and expert tips for elevating your sex life. Whether you're looking to ignite passion in your relationships or expand your understanding of intimacy, this episode is packed with practical insights and advice. Tune in to this must-listen conversation and unlock your best sex life with guidance from a true expert!

🕑Key Moments:

00:00:00 - Welcome and introductions
00:01:42 - Ashley Manta, award-winning sex educator
00:07:23 - Sex and Cannabis and Swinging
00:16:52 - Consent in the non-monogamy community
00:31:56 - Some facts about STIs and the myths of "We're Tested and  Clean"
00:46:46 - Skilled lovers vs. Novelty
01:09:17 - Wrap Up and Discount Codes

Transcript

0:37

Welcome to Swinger University. I'm Ed. And I'm Phoebe. Today we are interviewing Ashley Manta, an award-winning sex educator and certified sexologist. We're going to discuss sex, consent, and cannabis, STIs, how to be a skilled lover. Oh my goodness, got a lot to cover. This is going to be a great episode. We're super excited about it. But before we get started, let's introduce Ashley. She is a sought after authority on mindfully combining sex and cannabis as part of her Ken sexual brand, which has expanded to include psychedelics. She is the author of The CBD Solution, sex published in 2020 in conjunction with Mary Jane and Chronicle Books. She completed her certification as a body sex facilitator after studying with legendary pleasure pioneer, Betty Dodson. Ashley is the creator of the Activating Your Cosmic Pussy Sisterhood and a series of online intensives and retreats. Welcome. We are so excited that you are here. We listened to you on several podcasts. We listened to you on Double Teamed and Justin Lee Miller, Brain Candy. Yes, that was my phrase, Brain Candy, because I'm driving and I'm like, I'm trying to take notes mentally while you're talking in my ear. And I'm like, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God. She's like totally mentally stimulating me right now. I'm like loving all this information. So I was geeking out big time. Yeah. Yeah. And of course she brought it home and had to share it with me. And then we were both geeking out on it. So it's been great. I know. I love that. So your story is fabulous. I love your story. And I want our audience to know a little bit about your background, how you got to this point in your life, because it's quite the story and it's very, I love it. So you need to share. It would be my pleasure. I'll give you the highlights. It's a long story otherwise, and I want to make sure that we get to the things that are most juicy for your listeners. Perfect. But I personally am a sexual trauma survivor. And the way that I dealt with that in my ADHD neuro divergent brain was that I became an expert on trauma. When I was in undergrad and grad school, I focused a lot of my study on trauma, sexuality, healing trauma. And I became a rape crisis counselor, domestic violence crisis counselor, victim advocate. And I sort of ate slept and breathed primary prevention and sexual violence prevention in the early part of my career. And it was really meaningful impactful work, but it was also really high burnout work. And so by the time, you know, 2023 rolls around where I'm like 25 years old and having nervous breakdowns, I realized that that was not a sustainable career path. And so I pivoted hard. And first I worked at Planned Parenthood and got into the reproductive health side of sexuality education. And then when I moved to California in later in 2013, I started working as a phone sex operator. And it turns out I have a really, really sexy phone sex voice. And I'm very good at dirty talk. So that was a really fun way to be like, Oh, I can make money as a sexuality professional, not actually doing like the hard scary trauma thing. Right. And it was not great money as a phone sex operator. So I pivoted again slightly and got a job at the pleasure chest in West Hollywood as the web manager. So I was ordering toys and lubes and lotions and potions and accessories for the website, getting it up, trying out products, going to trade shows, meeting the vendors who were manufacturers and creators of these products. And also a lot of adult performers who were adjacent to the space. And that was when I was like, Oh, okay, this part of the industry is really interesting to me. And around the same time is when I got my medical card living in California. So I was exposed to medical cannabis for the first time and realized that, wow, there's so much more than living in Pennsylvania. When you go to a dealer and your options are weed or nothing. There was no choice. There were no edibles, there were no topicals or any of those kinds of things. And so I found a company in California that was making a THC infused lube that was meant to be applied to the vulva and that was supposed to enhance orgasm and decrease discomfort. And I had experienced pain with penetration for most of my adult life. So this product allowed me to have penetrative sex without pain. And I realized that there were not any sex educators talking about sex and cannabis from what I could see in the industry at the time. And so that became my niche. I started writing for Leafly and Dope magazine. It ended up leading to me getting written up in high times and a book deal. And I became the can of sexual. Yes. I love this path. It's fascinating. It's fun how a problem then just blossoms into this solution, which then we share and becomes this thing, this passion that we can't but help share with other people. Yeah. I also love too how almost everybody can kind of look back in their past and go, "You know, I had this one really strange job. It's this... You did what? Oh, that's interesting. Fascinating." I know. Wait, which is the strange job? Well, I mean, it's strange for vanilla people to be a phone sex operator. I mean, that's... What? Not strange. It's not strange for us. Oh. But or our podcast listeners. Uncommon, one might say. Yeah. I was like, "What's up?" It's an interesting job. Yes. Just kind of start with this whole sex and cannabis and swinging. We're always... We travel in those circles and so everyone's like, "Honestly, Ashley, I'm so tired of hearing people go, "Oh, I'm pink, pink, and horny." And I'm like, "Bitch, it does not. You are just... That is not true. Even some guys will do that. They're like, "Oh, I smoked this." And I'm like,"I'm so horny." I'm like, "Really? And then can you get it up after that?" I doubt that because I have experimented... Now, I will say I haven't been very good with my scientific experimentation, but it does absolutely nothing for me. And I've been on the hunt for the secret sauce. And I don't think it exists. Can you please tell us the truth? Please. I absolutely can. And full disclosure before we get into all of this, I am non-monogamous and kinky. So just in case anybody's listening to this and they're like, "What is this monogamous, heterosexual girl?" No, I'm bisexual, kinky, and poly as fuck. So y'all know I used to host sex parties. I'm a slut. So yes, you might be able to sleep with me at some point if I like you. I'm a fucking slut, but I'm a slut. Good company. So when it comes to cannabis and libido, I have a lot of people come to me and they're like, "Oh, it makes me horny or it doesn't make me horny, or I want it to make me horny," or all the different things, right? Yeah. What I would say is that cannabis, when used very intentionally, can help address the things that are getting in the way of pleasure connection, intimacy, horniness. But in and of itself, it is not a magic substance that is going to suddenly turn you into a ravenous sex monster. That's just not how that works. So when people say, "Oh, it makes me horny or I smoked this thing and I got horny," you were probably a little horny to begin with and it just enhanced what you were already feeling. Got it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And we've thought of any form of cannabis as kind of like an alternative to alcohol to kind of lubricate, like a social lubricant. It takes your inhibitions down a little bit, but in moderation because it very quickly goes into sleep or disorderly conduct or any one of those things. So yeah. Hmm. Yeah, moderation in all things, mindfulness in all things. And especially when you're trying to do it with sex, I generally do not recommend that you use cannabis or any mind altering substance with a new partner. Right. Like just from a consent perspective and because you want to be able to establish a sober baseline with someone before you start adding things. Yeah. And I definitely want to talk about sex and consent and how and when to use things and how it's being used in our community. I want to talk about the vulva, the THC-CBD combination and how women can use this to enhance their sexual pleasure. Hell yes. What is going on now out there with these products and do they work? What is the combination that we buy or look for? Yeah, a lot of them do. And there's a fair bit of snake oil on the market. So this is very much a buyer beware situation. But what I will tell you is that THC, CBD, CBG, CBN, all of the other cannabinoids work better together. So if you happen to live in a prohibition state and all that's available is CBD only, it's better than nothing, but just barely. Hmm. And you really want at least a little bit of THC to help CBD do what it's trying to do because the CBD molecule does not bind to our body's endocannabinoid receptors, which are the CB1 and CB2 receptors. It doesn't bind to them directly. It needs THC to do that. So it's not going to be as helpful on its own. That said, it can come in a lot of different forms. I think the forms that are the most useful specifically around sexual pleasure are topicals, like an oil that you would apply. You allow it to marinate for 20 minutes and then you get into your sexy fun times or suppositories, which I swear by. Not just because they're amazing for menstrual cramps and people who have endometriosis or symptoms of menopause, but also because if you have someone who maybe has a partner that is longer than you are deep and you've had the unpleasant experience of having your cervix knocked during sex, it can really help with the discomfort of that sensation. It's also great for anal and it doesn't get you high. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a triple win. Right. I agree. So then what's the difference with CBD and hemp? I've bought a few products online where they're like, "It's hemp," and then they ship it to me and then it does nothing. Okay. So this country, there's so much misinformation and bad information. Hemp is nothing more than a legal designation. It's all cannabis. All cannabis is cannabis, is cannabis, is cannabis. Hemp means that that particular plant has less than 0.3% THC by volume, by dry weight. So hemp plants are just low THC, typically higher CBD, varietals of cannabis. Now, there are a lot of products out there that say that they are CBD products, but when you read the fine print, all it has in it is hemp seed oil. That is not the same. CBD and hemp seed oil are not the same. They don't do the same things. That's not how that works. Wow. Right. So if you have a CBD only product, what you want to look for is a full spectrum product. That means that you are actually getting other cannabinoids like THC and the others, and you're probably getting some terpenes and some plant matter. When you see things that are CBD, isolate. It's 99% CBD. That's usually not going to be super helpful for you because it lacks the other cannabinoids that it needs to be effective. Right. That receptor binder assistance doesn't exist. That makes a lot of sense. That does. So then some of these products, I was looking at them because I'm trying to purchase some and it is challenging depending on where you live because you can't ship things across state lines. In fact, I even tried to buy something down in Southern California and I found one of the products that I wanted. It was Push Queen. The Push Queen. Oh yeah. The Alexander's company. They're great products. Yeah. And so I found a store, of course it's nowhere here where I live in Sacramento. And so I'm like, fine, it's in California. I'll just buy it from Southern California. I call them up. Hey, can you ship it to me? I'm in the same state. No. Now that might just be their store. They don't ship, but technically I was thinking, you know, because we're in the same state, they could. Right. It's a legal gray area because technically the United States Postal Service is federal and so there is some, like, if you're following the letter of the law, you wouldn't ship cannabis even within the state. That said, if you had a friend to go buy it for you who's comfortable taking a little bit of risk and doing a little civil disobedience, that's an option. Right. You could also take a road trip down to SoCal. That's an option. Right. Yeah. I didn't even see the suppositories when I was shopping online. Like, that didn't even come up as an option. The company I like that makes suppositories in California is called Hello Again. And they originally designed their products to be for people who are perimenopausal and in menopause, but it really is helpful for wherever you are in your walk of life. And they make different concentrations like four to one THC to CBD, one to one, five to two. Like, they have all different concentrations based on what you're trying to accomplish with that suppository. And so you can really kind of tailor it to what you need. That's fun. Yeah. Nice. You can probably try one particular formulation and then adjust. Absolutely. And it's a women-owned company and we love supporting women. Oh, gosh. 100%. I always try to support it. When I'm shopping on Etsy, if it's most usually they're women-owned, I will buy. There are some alcohol companies that are women-owned. What's the alcohol? The tequila company. Three sisters, three leaves, three something like that. Yeah. Three sisters. Women-owned. Three seeds. Women-owned. Nice. I like it because women-owned. Now, some of these lubes have tea tree oil and peppermint, etc., which gives me a bit of pause because I don't want to disrupt the microbiome of my vulva and start messing all that up. And I kind of want to feel what this CBD THC combination does aside from the tea trail and peppermint, because I know that's going to be stimulating. So it's a little challenging for me to find a product that I want without that. But that Kush Queen, the Kush Queen didn't have those ingredients. So I was pretty jazzed about that. Kush Queen is awesome. There's also another women-owned company that's actually in the Bay Area called Quim, Q-U-I-M. Yeah. And they have a sensitive formula that's minimal ingredients. It's just oil and cannabinoids. Nice. That's closer to us too. Yeah. That's a very short road trip. We could do that. That is. And then hit twist in San Francisco. Or the power exchange. Or the power exchange, yeah. They pop down to Santa Cruz and visit me. Yay! You're in Santa Cruz. Oh. Oh, yeah. That sounds cool. How very nice. You went to school in Santa Cruz? That was a former life where my ex I met in Santa Cruz. You won't go there. It's a totally different episode. All right. Let's talk about consent in the NAM Anagamas community. And I wanted to touch on... We could talk about how cannabis plays a role with consent. I also wanted to touch on what you thought about consent in the Swinger community and how that differs from the BDSM community and what you've noticed in regards to consent. True consent. I will tell you that I, as an early sex educator, especially in the 2013 to 2015 or so range, was very hesitant and apprehensive about entering Swinger spaces because Swinger spaces have a reputation for being kind of a free-for-all, especially around consent and drug use. I was very nervous about going to a Swinger party and what's it going to be like and is somebody going to be grabbing my ass and all those kinds of things. What I have seen in the time that I've started spending in Swinger communities is that there is a much greater emphasis in the recent years on consent, on awareness, on thoughtfulness around bodily autonomy, on all of those things. And so I feel much safer going to Swinger events now than I think I would have 10 years ago. That said, I think the BDSM community still has an edge on the Swinger community because their consent is a negotiation or built into every aspect of BDSM in the community. And I think with Swingers, there is still a little bit of like, "Oh, hey, you're hot. I'm hot. We're hot. Everybody good? Okay, great." It feels like it flows and it's a little bit more fluid and loosey-goosey, which is fine if everybody's okay with that, but it's kind of fine until it's not. Right. And I still find that there's a lot of like, "Hey, I did Molly and went to a Swinger party," or,"Hey, I'm on mushrooms. I'm at a Swinger party." And I'm not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV, but I came from that world and I can tell you, you are not legally allowed to consent when you are intoxicated. So if you're going to these spaces, you're already in a real consent danger zone when you are under the influence of a psychedelic or any kind of substance. And there's also a lot of alcohol at Swinger events as well, which makes me... Yes. It gives me what my best friend Katie would call cause for pause. Yes. So there's best practices and then there's like real life. And I think finding somewhere in the middle is useful and it's really important to have clear communication and be checking in with yourself, with your partner, and with your potential partners frequently, especially if there are substances involved. Right. Right. When we first started swinging, we were swinging sober for about the first three to four years, mostly because that's just how I am. When I was in my twenties, I was always a designated driver and I always knew that, and I always drove because I knew I could get home safe. I was in charge of my own safety. If I didn't drink, I was aware. I knew I wasn't going to get raped, no one was going to attack me, and I had a means to get away. So it was like, I'm going into an unknown environment. No way am I going in there with alcohol or anything else on board, because I don't know what's going to happen. So it was great for us because there's so many other stimulus. Once the hormones start going, I mean, I was just high from all the endorphins. And so as we progressed in the lifestyle, we were like, "Oh, maybe we'll have a drink. Maybe we'll have two drinks." And that's when I started to notice that my consent, I'd say yes to things that I normally wouldn't if I hadn't been drinking. And so at the time, you're like, "Weee, this is fun. I'm having a good time." But then the next day, you're like,"Yeah, that wasn't so great." And you start to have regrets, and the memory starts to come back, and you go, "Yeah, that probably wasn't my best decision." And so we started to dial that back to that drinking back because it wasn't satisfying. Go ahead. And that's what I was going to say too, is that it wasn't necessarily that you were making decisions that you regretted. Half the time, it was, "I don't remember what happened as clearly as I want to. I want to have those memories. I want to be able to play that tape back in my head and go, "Oh, yeah, that was a lot of fun." And oftentimes after those events, I would go,"Did you know what happened?" And you're like, "Ah, I kind of remember details, but it's kind of fuzzy." Yeah. And then you feel like crap. Because you're like, "I really wanted to really enjoy that experience with somebody and to not be fully present felt disingenuous and I've felt bad about myself also in my role with that other individual." And then the tables would turn on us as well where someone had been drinking and doing Molly and literally an hour later, he's like, "When we're trying to leave," he goes, "Gosh, it's so great. It would have been so great to have sex with you." And I'm like, "Here's a video." He literally didn't even remember an hour later. And that's when I went,"Okay, now I feel like crap." So I thought, "This is not good. Let's make a shift. Let's change course with what we're doing and who we're doing it with." Yeah. I respect that. I feel pretty strongly that if you need that kind of social lubricant to be able to have sex with the strangers, then maybe you need to interrogate that a little bit because I can have really dirty, filthy fucking sex. Stone cold sober. No shame, no reservations. And I would encourage you to try to get there. That sounds like a great place. It's a great place to be. I know. I like it. I know. And there's some further, deeper research we could... I like that. We can title that something."My Stone Cold Dirty Hot Sex Sober." I like that. I like where that's going. We can make a acronym out of that. So if you want to use cannabis in that space, let's say you've got severe anxiety or you're just... You're really socially awkward. We've got some friends in the lifestyle that really kind of need that to take that edge off because they really aren't that great at functioning with other people or groups. How could they use it and still be responsible and have consent? Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I would do is I would make sure to bone up on my self-regulation grounding practices, like absent substances. Make sure that you know how to do deep breathing and embodiment practices so that if you do start to get panicky in a group setting that you can calm yourself down. And when you're talking about weaving cannabis into it, there's two things I would say. The first is there is a really amazing Japanese word, which I may be pronouncing wrong, so apologies to anyone who speaks Japanese, but it's "orioki," which translates to "that which is just enough." And that, I think, is a really good guiding principle for using cannabis in a social setting where use just enough to get you to where you feel comfortable and balanced and like yourself, but not to the point that you are stoned off your ass and acting like someone else. Yeah, solid advice. We'd done an early episode because we'd seen so many people... Turns out they were later actually dealing cocaine at these parties too, so it was pretty hardcore drug use. But there were a lot of people who were kind of in our age range, and they were reliving their frat years. So I mean, just like heavy alcohol use, like ridiculously intoxicated. So we did an episode about it and how it was basically not such a fun thing for everybody else, let alone them, not to mention the whole consent thing. We did a whole episode about this, and we had a friend of ours later became a friend call us on it because of course we were in a sense implying that all drug use was bad. And we were saying,"Well, no, it's not that. It's just that all of our experiences so far have been pretty crappy with it." It really did come down to that regulation and knowing kind of what your dosage is and being able to use just enough as you were saying. But also, and this was the big thing that we both agreed on, and that was don't try it for the first time at a party or don't take something that someone else hands you. We've made that mistake before at a party and it was a rough night. We'll just say that. It was a rough night. Yeah, don't let someone else pick your path for you. That's real dangerous. I run into that. I'm allergic to peppers, and so I can't do spicy food. And I have told so many people, I used to say, "I can't do spicy food." And people would be like,"Oh, this isn't that spicy. It's not spicy at all." And I would take a bite and immediately my tongue would go numb and my stomach would start to churn. And I'm like, "You don't get to decide that for me." So now I've just started telling people I'm allergic to peppers and that saves time. But to your point, don't do it with a new person. Don't do it in a new situation. Don't do it for the first time at a party setting and don't take somebody else's drugs. From a purely risk management harm reduction perspective, powdery drugs, Bali, Coke, ketamine, all of those different things. No. Everything's laced with fentanyl. You haven't tested those drugs. You are rolling the dice with your life. And I actually carry Narcan with me anywhere I go, but a lot of people don't. And so it's important to be mindful of those things. And especially when you are doing drugs, it can be very easy to have the inhibitions gone and you're like,"Everything is awesome. Everybody loves me. Life is great. Nothing bad could ever happen." And that's not reality. Yeah. I would really encourage people that if you are going to be using, even let's just say cannabis in a group setting, negotiate, like go sober, negotiate, figure out who you're going to play with, what you're going to do, what's on the table, what's not on the table, boundaries, aftercare, all of those kinds of discussions, then what you're hoping to achieve by consuming, let's say cannabis, and what you're expecting it to do for you. And also like how to take care of you if it doesn't do that for you, if it takes you into a place that you weren't expecting. And then go ahead and have your fun. But it requires more legwork. Right. It does. Requires a plan, like you said, the aftercare, maybe even someone's over in the room to observe. Yeah, it's good to have a lifeguard on duty. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we learned very quickly from that one night and it was simply an infused joint. It wasn't anything extreme, but the concentrations of THC right now in products are so high. And if you do not have any kind of familiarity with it, that's a very short slope to a double black diamond. You're just wrong. Right. I find, I love the idea of us all just being able to use our words and saying, "Hey, we find you really attractive. We would really love some playtime with you. What is your play style?" And then you start to have this exchange. "Great. I'm looking for this tonight. What are you in for?" But nobody, I can't say with an absolute that nobody does that. It's uncommon. And less common still is safer sex conversations and barrier conversations. And those conversations are hard to have sober, but they're much harder to have intoxicated if they are had at all. So those are the conversations that you really need to be having on the front end before you take anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Those consent conversations are also challenging when you're at a house party and the music's loud and you can't get away or you follow someone to the bedroom, but you have to be quiet because there's play going on. So then you have to step out of the room. And so a lot of swingers are just, they try to go with the flow because they don't want to ruin the vibe. But now they're kind of consenting to something they really don't want to because they're afraid to either speak up or afraid to make a scene or to offend somebody. So there's all these fears about everybody else. And our primary function is to take care of us, number one. Right. And we kind of tend to fail to do that, I think more often than not, which... Well, and we live in this very people pleasing, not wanting to ruin the vibe kind of society, where if something starts to happen that crosses your boundary, you are likely, if you're a people pleaser, to go along with it because you're like, "Well, I'm better at managing my own discomfort than someone else's, so I'll just bite the bullet and take one for the team." And that is not the kind of sex I want to be having. Exactly. Yeah. And you can definitely tell when you're having sex with someone who's doing that, there's this kind of distance between the people. It's there. You can tell that they're just not into it in some way. And that is, it's very distracting and it's kind of disturbing too. I feel weird about it. We're kind of leading into fucking skilled lovers versus novelty, but before we get there, we're starting to touch on STIs and having that conversation about testing and things like that. You taught at Planned Parenthood and the reproductive health and sexual education. And so I really would love for you to talk about these testing windows and incubation periods because there is this false sense of security in the lifestyle about their tests. They got their little test and they're like, "Oh, three days before a trip to Desiree, I got tested." And you're like, "That means just shit." Yeah. In my mind. But everyone else is like, it's like a badge of honor. Like, "Check, I'm safe." And I'm like, "Mm." That doesn't mean what you think it means. Talk about why that may not be the case. There's so many reasons. First of all, so I have HSV2, which is genital herpes. So I have to have the safer sex STI conversation with all of my new partners because I believe in informed consent. And so I have to like, "Okay, things are getting hot and heavy. Pants are starting to look like they might come off. All right, pause. Just need to let you know I have herpes. That's cool. I'm take meds, whatever." But some people, that freaks them out. And some people are like,"Cool, me too. High five." And we continue on with our conversation. I love those people. Those are my favorite people. But a standard panel at Planned Parenthood does not include herpes. So you come out with your,"Look at my flashy all negative test panel. Well, cool." They tested you for chlamydia, gonorrhea, HIV syphilis, possibly trichomonas, maybe hep C. But they almost certainly didn't test you for herpes unless you were having symptoms. Now there are some other, especially like Swinger companies that do herpes testing as part of their standard panel. However, the tests are unreliable for herpes because they're a blood test. It's an IgG serum test. And all it means is that you have enough of it in your blood. You could test positive and never have had an outbreak in your life. That's very possible. You can also test negative and still be positive because you just got a false negative on your test. So that's not as like foolproof. And also the tests, regardless of what you're getting tested for, let's say it's something as common as chlamydia, which by the way, the most common symptom of chlamydia is no symptoms. So when people are like, "Oh, I'm not having any symptoms. I'm clean." First of all, if somebody says, "I'm clean," just mark that as a red flag in your brain because that's really stigmatizing language. But also your test is only reflective of what your status was the day you took the test. It's only good for the first person you fuck afterward. As soon as you have sex with someone else, your test is essentially null and void because maybe they used condoms for you and they just got tested for you. But two days later, they fuck some five people at a party bareback and then they fuck you two days later and you're still going off your old information. There's just so many variables of like, "Are you okay? You got tested. Great. What are your safer sex protocols? Cool. You use condoms. Great. For what? Just for penetration? Do you use condoms for oral? Do you use dental dams?" Because you can get chlamydia and gonorrhea in your throat. And I don't know very many people at all who use dental dams for oral. Exactly. I've never seen one. I feel with STIs, the reason that you get tested is to be proactive in case you caught something, not to prevent yourself from ever getting anything. Yes. So I get tested every three months like clockwork. I have conversations with my partners. I use condoms for penetration with everyone who's not a fluid bonded partner and I have all those conversations. But I also know that I'm non-monogamous and having sex in group settings. There's a very good chance at some point in my life I'm going to end up with chlamydia or gonorrhea or something. So the other thing that you can do is there are medications called PEP and PrEP. A lot of people know what PrEP is, but sometimes people don't know about PEP, which is post-exposure prophylaxis. And now there's something called doxy PEP that if you take this medication within a certain window of time, it basically inoculates you against whatever you may have been exposed to that's bacterial. And so one, if you're a swinger or any kind of non-monogamous having group sex, especially unprotected, I would encourage you to be on PrEP just generally, which is for HIV prevention. And if you are going to be going to a party or whatever, go to your clinic and get doxy PEP and regular PEP. These medications exist, use them. And if you're not going to use condoms and you're not going to have saber sex conversations, the least you can do is take medication. Right. Right. Right. Fascinating. Yeah. Another thing that you talked about it, and that is you're only as good as the last person you had sex with in terms of your test. Your test is only as good as the last person you had sex with. There's also the thing that we like to emphasize too, which is false negatives on tests and the kind of the incubation period for a lot of things that won't show up on a test. So you could have been tested and it just doesn't show up on the test yet because the viral load or whatever hasn't reached the nuff. Oh, for sure. Yeah. If you use it with an orgy and then you get tested the next day, that test isn't accurate for what you just did. All of those infections have a varying window. So it's not just wait this period of time, wait a month, wait three weeks, wait a week. It varies depending on which thing you may have been exposed to. And you don't know what you've been exposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn't have exposed yourself in the first place. I know. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's a good point. It's really important to be checking in with your healthcare provider or clinic and double checking the incubation periods for the various things. Because there's so many of them. I could rattle off, but it's a long list and I don't want to be wrong. So go do your research. That's part of being a sexually active, responsible adult. Yeah. And I think the, so I have two things. One of them is that kind of accepting a level of risk because you're choosing to be non-monogamous and you're in orgies and you're going to have the fun. You're rolling the dice. It's just a matter of time for something to happen. And I think that that's important for people to acknowledge if they're getting into the lifestyle that there's a chance. Now you can diminish your risks by obviously safer sex practices and using condoms and whatnot. The other thing that I was curious about, because I've had listeners write to us about PrEP and PrEP and Doxy PrEP. What's the safety with that? Because I know with some of those, taking them on a regular or consistent basis isn't necessarily a good thing. Well, what do you know? Like I'm not a lawyer. I'm also not a doctor. So I would encourage you to ask a healthcare provider those questions, but broadly. Absolutely. Let's just take PrEP. I don't take PrEP because it can over the long term contribute to bone loss and osteoporosis runs in my family. So for me, I know that I'm going to probably get osteoporosis someday and I don't want to make it worse. Whereas I one, I'm comfortable with the risks and I have had sex with HIV positive undetectable partners very comfortably. And so that doesn't, I would be more worried about the osteoporosis than my HIV risk. And so for me, that's the choice. For some, there can be some kidney issues. So it really does depend on you, your personal concerns, your medical history. And it's a really important conversation to have with your healthcare provider, because it's a decision to make. And so you have to really see where the areas of risk are most alive in your life and what's going to be the most appropriate choice for your personal life. There's no one right decision, but I can tell you that with the proliferation of PrEP, I work with the LA LGBT center. And as of next year, because of their efforts, there will be less than 500 cases of HIV in LA in LA County. So like they have essentially added the HIV epidemic in LA County, which is wildly amazing. And it's entirely because of the efforts of those kinds of providers giving out PrEP for free, making it accessible, making condoms available, having free testing. And so like that should be a model to the world for what we can do when people are really careful and thoughtful about their health and they have resources. That's fantastic. Do you, maybe you can tell me, do they use kind of a harm reduction model as a basis for that program down there in LA in terms of kind of meeting people where they are and stigma free or a judgment free? Absolutely. Yeah, it's all about harm reduction. They do needle exchange, they have free Narcan, like they're not here to judge you for your lifestyle. You can tell them that you just gangbang the football team and they'll be like, cool, what do you want to get tested for? And you might feel a little like crunchy talking to your primary care doctor who's been treating you since you were 12 to have that conversation. But that's why things like LGBT centers exist and why they're so important. Yeah, I have some history with the Santa Cruz needle exchange program and their harm reduction model and it was enlightening to learn a lot about that and it's good to hear that that's still continuing with other areas. It's awesome and showing good results too. I mean statistically that's fantastic and I think it's a good model for other counties. Yeah, red states, take note, this is how you fix problems. You don't just preach abstinence. Yes. In regards to herpes, I think a lot of people are ignorant, they're just ill-informed and don't really know. And there's this stigma around it and they hear the word and it's like, and they freak out. How do you educate somebody? Because if they go, "I guess I'm still interested in having sex with you, tell me more." Do they actually, are they open to that? Or if you get the,"Oh my God," and run away, then you're just like, "Okay, next." I mean, if they're not open to the conversation, then why bother, right? Honestly, in some ways having herpes has been kind of a godsend in terms of a litmus test for sexually evolved humans. Because if their reaction is, "Ew, gross, that's disgusting, you're dirty," anything like that, then I'm like, "Wow, thank you so much. I'm very sure that sex with you would have been deeply unsatisfying. So I appreciate you saving me time." That kind of closed-mindedness and stigma as it relates to sexuality, I think is a red flag. So I appreciate when people are either like, "Oh, either one, me too, I've been getting cold sore since I was a kid and no big." Or"Actually, could you tell me more? I'm curious. I'd like to understand a little bit more about risks and things like that." Or just like, "Yeah, my girlfriend had it or my ex had it and it's fine, no worries." Those are all green flags for me. I think there is still a lot of stigma, not just in the Swinger community, but in the world. I cringe every time a late night host makes a herpes joke. I'm like, "Really? Are we still there? That's the low-hanging fruit that you're swatting at right now? Come on." Because like you said, it is incredibly common. Over 90% of people ages 14 to 49 have HSV1, which is oral. And if you have a cold sore or if you are virally shedding and you go down on someone, you could give them herpes, generally. And so the way that people are like,"Oh, I just get cold sores," or, "Oh, it's just a fever blister." It's like,"No, it's herpes. It's fine." You just say the word. It's okay. And genital is not inherently a word. They're both contagious if you're not paying attention. But there is medicine. I take a daily suppressive medication. So that keeps me from having outbreaks by and large. And it also keeps me from having viral shedding. And the only time it's contagious is when you are having an active outbreak or you are having viral shedding. So if neither of those things are true, you cannot give someone herpes. Perfect. Happy to help. Thank you. Everyone is all educated. It wouldn't be a podcast without some education. At least ours. All right. That's awesome. Okay. Did you have anything else, my love? No, no. I think that's great. We've had this conversation with other people and we've done some research and your statistics about pretty much everybody having it, and especially with the asymptomatic nature of HSV1, it's almost impossible to know whether you have it unless you've gotten a test. And if you don't have an outbreak, why would you go get tested for it? Yeah. So we're all spreading it around to everybody else without even knowing. Right. So know what you need to know. And if you have one type, you're less likely to get the other type. Not completely foolproof, but if you already have antibodies for let's say HSV1, then you are less likely to acquire HSV2. Oh, interesting. Oh, good to know. I didn't know that. Hmm. Okay, cool. Ooh, learn something new. All right. Let's talk about fucking skilled lovers versus naughty lovers. And I was listening to Double Teamed and the conversation you guys are having about skilled lovers and all of that. And we are what, 10, 11 years now into swinging. And most of our sex we've discovered, of course, years later, you look back and you go, you know what? I think we're pretty much DTF all this whole time. I didn't really even realize that till now. And we're like, oh, cool. Woo, high five. But a lot of that sex was novelty sex. And I loved the variety, the differences, that it's the scene, it's who's there, it's what happened organically. We've had some really amazing soft swap experiences. In fact, some of those are our favorite. And sometimes you do, you get in this really cool space where no one's giving consent, but you see in their eyes that they're consent, you know, they'll put a hand, kind of like, can I touch? And you give a nod and there's this thing and no one's offended. And it goes really well, but that doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes you do have to swat a hand, a random hand that's coming up behind you and touching you and you're like, what? Hello? Like, I'm busy over here. What gave you the permission to just do that? But the novelty sex, which worked for us in the beginning because we didn't want that level of intimacy with people because we started swinging before we were married while we were dating one another. So we, having another level of intimacy for me felt threatening because I didn't want to ruin or disrupt our new relationship because it was new. And so because this was going to be my third marriage, I was like, it's three and I'm done. If this gets fucked up, I'm just going to be single the rest of my life because I'm not going on four, five, six, right? I'm going to get it right. And I'd scoured what I felt like was the entire planet and I didn't find anyone. And then he lands in my lap and I'm like, wow, okay. So the diamond was there. And so I felt very protective of it. So I'm like, I don't really care what your name is. Let's just fuck. This is going to be fun. But now I want something more. I want a little, a richer experience because I'm getting into that sensory play and I have experienced some of the sensory play and I have experienced some of the BDSM and I'm like really loving that experience. And honestly, what I really love is the mental part of it, that asking, can I touch you? I mean, oh my God, that's just like, I love when somebody asks me that, you know, would you like a kiss here? Would you like a kiss there? Is it all right? If I touch here, oh, I would love to do this to you. Would that be okay? Like my brain just goes bananas and I love that. And we don't do that in swinging. So this is where you're trying to have more of an intimate, purposeful connection with somebody that's going to have a richer, more full experience, but the parties don't really lend itself to that. But they are the best way to try and find people and see how you gel and try before you buy, so to speak. So it's challenging. So Ed and I have kind of slowed down a bit in that regard to try and find honestly better lovers, a more meaningful interaction. And how has that been for you and your journey over time with your progression of sex and relationships and what you want? How has that changed what you want? Well, it's, you know, like everyone that's evolved over time, but I do want to draw a distinction. There's a little bit of a false dichotomy here where you can have anonymous, casual, like slightly detached sex that's still highly communicative, negotiated, and intimate. Like those two things are not mutually exclusive. I think it requires you to be a lot more self-aware and situationally aware, which not all people are. And also, oh man, I want to dive into the psychology of like trying to protect the relationship by only having casual interactions with others because there's so much in there as a relationship coach that I would want to pick apart. But because this is not a coaching session for you, I'm going to leave that to the side. And I see actually a lot of this in the Tantra world. Tantra communities tend to do this really well, where you can really drop in with someone for five minutes and have like a transformative, transcendent, orgasmic, like mind blowing experience. Never know their name, never see them again. Like those things are possible, but you have to be savvy. And I think what I would say about the Swinger world is there can be a little bit of sloppiness and a little bit of laziness. Like there seems to be, and this is not true for everyone by any stretch of the imagination. And this is not certainly not exclusive to Swingers, but there seems to be a little bit of like, I just want it to be easy. I don't want to have to think about it. I don't want to have to try real hard. I just want to like get off and move on with my day so that we can kind of check the box. It like, look, sweetie, we have a spicy relationship. We fucked a couple last weekend. Like cool story. What's actually going on in a relationship?(both laughing) But like I really, and the way that this relates to my journey is I feel very strongly that I will be the change I want to see in the bedroom. And if I want to manifest the kind of sex that is most appealing to me, which is really skillful, high level, hot, intimate, consent focused, dirty as all fucking get out, like filthy, kinky, all the things, then I need to come with that ability to have those conversations and to co-create that experience with whoever happens to be sitting in front of me if they are equally open to an experience like that. I'm a strong dancer. I can lead you if you're willing to be led. So for me, it comes down to like, how do I want to show up? What vibe do I want to send out? And who am I attracting with the way that I relate to people in those settings? And that tends to set me up with success. And then also how skillfully can I say like, oh no, actually like I don't want to do anal tonight. You know, I saw that you were getting close to my asshole. I just wanted to check in and then let you know that that's a boundary for me. Like, can I do that kind of seamlessly in the moment or am I going to sit there like clenching, kind of squirming away from you, hoping you notice? Right. Right. Right. Yeah, and I think it sounds to me like, and I'm going to try and paraphrase what you said, but it sounds almost like mindfulness, like being very present in the moment and kind of taking that experience as it is and really paying attention to your lover and what their cues are, but also being able to communicate what you want and listening to what they want. And that ability to say that having a voice is pretty challenging. And when we talked about, you know, being people pleasers and being afraid of hurting people's feelings, I think that's where a lot of the bad sex comes from in swinging. And that is, I don't really want to rock the boat. So I'm just going to like pretend that this was fun and he'll go away happy. She'll go away happy, whatever. And you walk away from it and you're like,"It's all right." Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, or I don't want to be guilty of robbing that partner's experience. Yeah, we did a lot of orgies in the beginning, a lot of, that was just what was around. That was the easiest and they were fun. And I liked the energy and I would feed off that energy, but there really wasn't time for a lot of mindfulness during that, because it's just a sea of bodies. And there's a lot of aspects I love to it. Really what I love about it is the energy and the sensory play. I really could care less about the penetrative sex because it takes me a while to have a really good penetrative sex orgasm. So it really can't be an orgy situation. It has to be a setting where there aren't any other distractions. So while the lifestyle has been really fun and beneficial in a lot of ways, I've learned a ton about myself and my sexuality and asking for what I want and using my voice and telling people softer, slower, nibble here, pinch there, grind there, right? Deeper, faster, all those things. I mean, I've really improved my own experience by just saying it, which seems so simple, but sometimes I don't know why you don't do that. What's that like? We're not, I don't know. It's something maybe we just have to learn an evolution of our own sexuality. Well, I have an opinion on that, but I'd love to hear Ashley's thought on that. Yeah, I think there's a lot of growth that can be had in these communities. And I think one of the really big growth edges for swingers, not just swingers by any means, like I don't mean to come down on swingers. This is across the board in every group sex situation I've ever really been in, other than the Kink community. They've got it pretty solidly dialed in. But there's this very like binary understanding of consent. Like consent has finally become a buzzword, but it's still very like, yes to this, no to that, yes to this, no to that. Where there is a really amazing educator named Betty Martin who has come up with something called the wheel of consent, which is a circle with four quadrants. And on one side it's who's doing the thing and who's it being done too. And then it's for me, it's for you. Because being clear on what's being done and who it's for is a really important nuance to consent that I don't think gets considered very often. Because there are people who get off on the anonymity, the danger, the sort of free flowing, like one of my friends hosts gay, 40 nights in LA. And these guys show up with recent test results and a jock strap, they check their clothes at the door. And then it's just like, oh, there's a hole. I'm going to stick my dick in it. And like, there's no conversation. And like, that's what they're going there for. Love that for you. I'm not here to shame you or tell you that that's bad or wrong. If that's what you're going for, then those spaces absolutely exist for you. Where it gets tricky is if one person is seeking an experience like that and the other is seeking like you, a more like slow, sensual, like really thoughtful experience. And there's no way to know that one person is here and the other person is there without talking about it. And so, if somebody comes up to you and is like, hi, I'm trying to suck as many dicks as I can tonight. Can I please suck yours? It's for me. Like, I'm not actually going to do it maybe even in the way that you like it or the way, it's not about you. It's about me checking a dick sucking off my list so I can add it to like the tally. Then you can go, yeah, that sounds awesome. I'd love to help you out. Or no, I have really strong opinions about how my dick gets sucked. So like, no, thank you. Please move on to the next candidate.(laughs) Yeah, yeah. We have a friend in the lifestyle who's, actually we have several ladies who are into the fantasy of just like being drenched, bukkake. They just want to be covered in it. And it's not a thing for me. Like, it doesn't really do much for me, but I am happy to help fulfill that particular need for her. Taking one for the team.(laughs) That's what does it for her. Okay. Sure, why not? I'll throw my coin in that fountain. And we have another lifestyle friend who loves gang bangs. And she had like 50 guys at the power exchange that were coordinated for her birthday, I think on her 50th birthday. Yeah, it was 50th birthday. And so I asked her, I was deeply curious. I was like, okay, so what, how was that? What did you like about it? What is it that does it for you? What is that thing? And she said, and then when she described it, I got it. She goes, I really get off on their approach, how they approach me. Some of them are timid. Some of them are like a competent. Some of them are, you know, shaking. Like everyone, their approach is different. And she goes, I love being able to just bring them in no matter where they're at with their level of confidence. And I was like, oh, I see, this is a, you have all the power, I get it. Ding. And then it made sense to me. Absolutely. And I was like, ooh, I'm getting this now. So like, you just never know. And this is why I always ask because initially, some people are like, oh, we ain't gang bang. I'm like, yeah, but did you ask why? I mean, there's a reason. I'm sure it's really cool. Oh, I'm so happy. I now have a reason to tell this story. Okay, so I last month in October, oh, I guess now two months ago, in October I had my fallopian tubes removed. So I am fully baby proof. And in addition to like feeling really safe now that I have bodily autonomy and I can't get pregnant and also I've lowered my ovarian cancer risk by 80%, I actually had a conversation with my surgeon about this very thing. And as I was like in getting prepped for surgery, I mentioned that I was going to hedonism in January and I was so excited that I'd be like there and sterile and able to like have a gang bang at hedonism if I so chose and not have to worry about getting pregnant. And to my delight, the OR nurse was like, I went to hedonism in 19... I was like fuck yes made my whole day. I love like was female. It was so delightful. But like, someday when I have that gangbang experience and I want to take 20 fucking loads over and over, like just one after another, I am not interested in their skill level or how well they're fucking me. In that moment, I just want as much come inside of me as possible. And like, that's what we're doing it for. So that's where like, being clear about who's it for, what's the goal, like how do you want to feel at the end and having everyone be on the same page about that is really, really important. Yeah. Oh, so much. So it's interesting. We've been having conversations. We have issues with labels. So classic example, just because someone says that they're soft swap, the question is, what does that mean? You're full swap. What does that mean? Because it's a definition in a book, but everybody kind of spins it their own way. So the definition that we've been playing with lately is, you know, hot wife, hot husband, cock hold. And that's such a spectrum of different types of interactions. So to your point, two people getting into a room and having a conversation about a thing, you got to get pretty specific because it's open to interpretation. And so having that intentional conversation about what you want and what you want to get out of it, we talk about consent all the time where it's like, don't rattle off the things that you don't do. Because that means there's a whole bunch of stuff on the plate. Sexual activity is a pretty big buffet. I mean, there's so many things, so many things. And even saying, I want to do this, you should be a little bit more specific because it's kind of how you like to do it. So, yes, you want to be IV sex. You want to have full penetrative sex. How? Fast, slow, deep, so many variables. Grindy. I mean, like. Yeah, I want you to go down on me, but don't lick my asshole because once you touch my ass, you have to go a Listerine before you can touch my pussy again because booty cooties don't belong in the vulva. So like, you got to be real clear because some people are like, oh, no, like, I got so excited eating your pussy. I wanted to eat your ass a little bit. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nope. Don't want the UTI. Thank you very much. Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Although we did hear something recently from Dr. Jen Gunter about that, about wiping forward to backward. And she was saying that it's actually less of a thing than it's been made out to. I am not advocating that anybody go from your butt to your vulva at all. I'm just saying. I love Jen Gunter, but I imagine like all things, there's room for nuance there. Like, there's a very big difference between somebody who's wiping back to front, who starts at their vaginal opening and goes up versus somebody who's wiping from their asshole up. Like there's, that's not how you wipe poop off. You know, nuance really matters. And, and like you said, there's a very big difference between sticking your tongue in someone's asshole, right? And then licking their vulva around their urethra and, you know, like wiping in a way that is probably fine if you're otherwise like hygienic. A hundred percent. A hundred percent, especially depending on how much they're into licking your ass. Because, you know, if they're like really into it. Exactly. Yeah. How enthusiastic are you? Now that we're talking about assholes, it just reminded me. This is a fascinating fact because I love fascinating facts. We're going to go back to cannabis in the butt. Tell us why cannabis in the butt doesn't work. What is this thing? It's not that it doesn't work. It's actually an incredibly bioavailable and effective way of consuming cannabis. What it doesn't do for most people is it doesn't get you high. But it can relax you. Which is interesting because if you put Molly in your ass, that will definitely get you high. So I'm. I used a suppository anally and it actually did get high. So I feel like it's a very much a your mileage may vary, but I'm very sensitive to THC. I only do like five milligram edibles. And I have put 50, 100 milligrams in my ass and just felt like chill. Well, like a warm blanket around my abdomen, but not high at all. So it is a great way to bypass your liver, which is one of the, so it doesn't metabolize the same way as an edible does. So that's one of the reasons that you don't get high, but that one is especially weird considering that like, it doesn't get you high with cannabis, but it absolutely will if you put MDMA in your ass. Or alcohol or caffeine. Or alcohol or any other kind of intoxicating substance. So like that is where my health and physiology knowledge fails me. And if you are a rectal expert, please shed light on why that is. I would love to learn more. Right? Yeah, if any of you listening to this are doctors or nurses, and there are a very high percentage of you listening who are doctors and nurses because we know you're in the lifestyle. Let us know. Yeah, because I'm curious from kind of like a physiology standpoint, it makes sense that alcohol gets absorbed through the intestinal walls, right? There's a lot of digestion that goes on in that portion of the intestines. You know, there's tons of blood vessels there. So it makes a lot of sense that it gets absorbed, but then why not the cannabis? That's weird. I know, right? Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. I know. I wanna wrap this up, but I wanna also ask you, what are your newest projects and what does your 2025 look like? I'm so glad you asked. So my 2025 is starting out on the best possible high note, which is I am going to be better at being bad week, the naughty gym takeover at Hedonism in Jamaica from January 4th to the 11th. I am one of the sex experts who will be teaching. I'm teaching dirty talk and my live demo hand job class, which was wildly popular earlier this year. And I'm also doing a keynote on sex cannabis and psychedelics. Can't imagine why. That is like, ugh, chef's kiss. The best way I can think of to start the year. And I hope that I get to start every year like that moving forward. When I get back, I have two really cool programs that I'm running. One starts in January and one starts in February. And the February one is a brand new, you all are the first podcast to hear about it offering. So yay. The January is a program I've been running since 2021. It's called Activating Your Cosmic Pussy. And it is an online intensive for women, all about sex magic, loving your body, plant medicine, owning your desires, clearing your throat chakra, like just basically tapping into all of the pleasure potential of your body and like really owning that and connecting with other witchy, sexy, amazing women. So that program starts in January and that's enrolling now. And then my other program that's brand new is, it's called Attuning to the Cosmic Orgasm. And that is actually gonna be a 90 day group coaching program that is available to everyone, over 21. Everyone, whether you are, you know, single, couple, poly, triad, polycule, like that's all fine. You can be any gender under the sun, that's all fine. Like everyone is welcome. And it's gonna be a 90 day program. We'll do weekly 90 minute calls. And then you'll also have access to a discord server and everyone who enrolls also gets a 45 minute one-on-one with me, just one. But everyone else, like the rest of it is all in a group setting. And it's gonna be about really deep Ooh, God, that sounds amazing. Well, that's really exciting. I am going to go. So I am going to go check that out. I literally just put up the website yesterday. I'm so excited about it. And in fact, you know, for all of your Swinger University listeners, I will offer a 15 percent discount if they click the link I will send you. Fantastic. So we will put that link in the show notes and you heard it. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really super excited about that. I'm probably going to be signing up for that. I'd love to have you. Oh, let's see. So if you if someone wanted to do a virtual coaching session with you, they can also do that on your website, right? Absolutely can. They can set up a free discovery call with me, which is like 20, 30 minutes of us just chatting. You let me know whether you're an individual or partnered in any capacity. Kind of what your goals are, what's really like of concern for you right now and just like feel each other out and see if we have a good vibe to work together. And then I have coaching programs that are just like one off sessions or I do like three, six, nine month programs. Nice. That's really nice. I like that. I like the idea that you do like a free. 20, what, 15 between 15 and 30 minutes depends on like how quickly we figure out. Like, oh, yeah, I definitely want to work with you. But I feel like, you know, coaches are like sneakers. You really got to try it on and make sure it's the right fit for you. If we're going to be going to like run a marathon together. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. That does make a lot of sense. I don't think anybody else does that. I like that a lot. Let's see. Do do do. And then if someone wants to book you for your in person events, like how do they do that also on your website? Just email me if you want to work with me in pretty much any capacity. You can just email me. I also have some prerecorded like standalone workshops from hand jobs to how to be a booty boss to energetic sex. And you can find that on there's a link to it on my main website, which is can asexual dot com. But you can also go straight to elevated intimacy dot com that has all of my self paced online courses where you're like, you know what? I'm not ready to work with you one on one, but I'd like to learn. I have a dirty talk course like that's all available for you that you can just take in the privacy of your own home at your own pace. That's right. I had that there like and your five essentials steps to dirty talk. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's free, right? That is free. The when you sign up through the dirty talk, I have like a kind of a lead gen thing that you can just get like a free dirty time starter guide. Nice. See freebies all of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In this economy, I feel you guys like I want to make this easy for you. I'm expensive, but I'm worth it. But I also have more affordable options. Love that confidence. Well, well, Ashley, thank you so, so much for taking the time to be on our show. We really appreciate your expertise and your time with us today because we know your time is valuable and we just value you so, so much. So thank you for being with us. It was such a pleasure chatting with you both. I'm really, really excited and thank you for having me. Hey, I'm I'm really excited about twenty, twenty five for you and if we if we can do anything to help propel you forward, please let us know. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining our community. Don't forget your homework. Tell a friend about our show. And if you like, leave a review and a comment. You can also leave us a voicemail at nine one six five three eight oh four eight two. Or if you reach out to us at Swinger University dot com, we have a way way a way away for you to leave us an anonymous message and it just shows up as a little voice file. You only get 90 seconds, so you got to be brief with it or you can send us a couple in a row. We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your stories. Or if you have anything that you can tell us about why your colon will not absorb THC, we'd love to know. And as we say, keep learning, keep growing and keep it sexy. Oh, my God, that's awesome.