We Threw Out All Our Rules - But How Did You Feel?

In this episode of Swinger University, we take a deep dive into our first full-swap experience and address insightful listener questions about the psychological and emotional dynamics that come with breaking traditional boundaries. From the thrill of connection to the surprising emotions that emerged, we explore how our feelings evolved and the lessons we learned along the way. Whether you're curious about the lifestyle or reflecting on your own journey, this candid discussion will inspire and entertain. Tune in for honest conversations, personal growth, and a touch of humor!

#SwingerUniversity #SwingingLifestyle #FullSwap #OpenRelationships #LifestyleJourney #EmotionalGrowth #SwingingCouples #Relationships #LifestylePodcast #Communication #PersonalGrowth onesmallchange

Transcript

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[Ed] We recently recorded an episode where we talked about our first full swap experience.[Ed] It was quite memorable for us and a lot of you really liked that episode as well.[Ed] As a matter of fact, it's been our most popular video up to this point.[Ed] But we had some questions. We had some listener comments that we really think we can address.[Ed] So we're going to, in this episode, talk about the things that we didn't talk about.[Phoebe] In that episode, I'm excited. I love listener questions and comments because it sparks[Unknown] conversation and we get to sit here and have more fun conversations with each other.[Phoebe] Yeah, definitely. Okay, so you're going to read the comment, right? Or the question?[Unknown] Yes, I'm going to. All right, so here's the question. This was from The Ranch Hand.[Ed] It's too bad you didn't discuss the psychological reactions you had.[Ed] Seems like for the first time doing that full swap, it was just like a nothing burger.[Ed] I was kind of curious which your reactions were to see each other in that situation with another[Ed] person. That would have been a great topic as I know people that have tried and some of the[Ed] emotional stuff that came up around it was pretty intense. All right, let's talk about some of our[Ed] first time feelings because that was one part of his questions. And I guess the first part of that[Phoebe] is why did we do it? That's easy for me because we knew them pretty well. We had been on several[Phoebe] meet and greets. We had been on a boat day meet and greet gathering.[Unknown] So, gosh, I think we had probably spent a good, I don't know, it's hard to calculate how many hours.[Phoebe] We've known them for many, many hours on several occasions. Right, right. So talking with them,[Phoebe] hanging out with them was really lovely and I felt extremely comfortable around her. And I think[Unknown] it was mostly, well, it was the both of them, but her first, my comfort level with her first is[Phoebe] key and it has honestly always been key for me in a lifestyle. If I'm not having a connection with[Phoebe] the woman, it's not happening. I have to be 100% comfortable with her. I mean, not 100% but[Ed] very comfortable. So in your mind, was was it the relationship with the couple or was it more[Ed] just the vibe? You know, the hormones were going and everything was super exciting.[Phoebe] It was definitely what I said before, which was the amount of time we spent getting to know them[Phoebe] that they were easy to get to know that there was a good match, right. There was a good[Phoebe] gel and nice flirtatious vibe that was going on. And it was really comfortable with the wife,[Phoebe] very comfortable. And I think the environment also probably helped, especially at that particular[Phoebe] party that night that we decided to full swap with them because it was a comfortable environment.[Phoebe] Well, it was a little uncomfortable for me because there was a fair amount of people I didn't know.[Phoebe] So I wasn't completely comfortable in that home because I'd never been to the home before.[Phoebe] Right. I've never met a bunch of those people. But that couple that we full swapped with,[Phoebe] I knew them and they were my point people to kind of gravitate to. So I guess, in a sense,[Unknown] that really helped me be more comfortable because I was gravitating to them.[Ed] Yeah, and I was going to say, and I'm pretty sure we mentioned this in the original episode,[Ed] and it was we'd spent a long time talking about it and debating it. And they kind of[Ed] checked a bunch of boxes for us in terms of comfort level and attractiveness. We just thought[Ed] that they were the right couple to do that. Like if we were going to do it with anybody,[Ed] it was going to be with them. Yeah. Because it just made the most sense.[Ed] I think we'd spent a lot of time with them, not just familiarity with different events,[Ed] but like the conversations we'd had with them, like we'd kind of gotten to know them pretty well.[Phoebe] Yeah. Yeah. Which was, I guess, an usual past that point because throughout our journey,[Phoebe] we've basically just been DTF. We rarely spent that much time getting to know a couple. I think[Phoebe] they were rare. Yeah. And honestly, our first time was, was lovely. It was nice. I'm glad it was[Ed] them. Yeah. And to be clear, DTF in this particular instance or this scenario was down to full swap.[Unknown] brackets because we hadn't full swapped yet. Right. So down to do other shenanigans.[Unknown] Everything. But that right. Right. Right. I remember the next question really in here is about[Ed] watching each other. And while it was going on, I don't think we watched each other that much.[Ed] I mean, we kind of looked over to see what was going on. And there was definitely some conversation[Ed] between the two couples. But I don't, I don't think I spent a lot of time like watching what was[Unknown] going on. I was pretty focused on what I had going on. I do remember watching. And I remember[Phoebe] being, it's probably, I don't remember. I do remember watching. Right. Because I remember seeing her.[Phoebe] And I remember reaching over and touching her. Yes. And asking to touch her. And she was touching[Phoebe] me. We were holding hands. And I was caressing her. And, but what as far as watching goes,[Phoebe] I didn't watch a whole lot of you two having sex. Right. Because I was focused on my own experience.[Phoebe] Yes. And that's kind of what I was thinking. I did watch you two just a little bit after he and I[Phoebe] had gotten up. You guys were still going. Of course. Of course.[Phoebe] Just been your MO. The most of our, our, our experience. And, and yes, you're welcome to all those[Phoebe] ladies. You're welcome. But I will say watching you have sex with somebody else at that point,[Phoebe] I know for a fact was not a level of comfort for me. And I've talked about this and other[Phoebe] podcasts before. It really didn't get comfortable for me until, I don't know, six, seven years in.[Ed] Yeah. Yeah. It was a very long time. It wasn't until a couple of years ago, really, that you got[Phoebe] comfortable with that. Yeah. And it wasn't like we were swinging like once a year or even twice a[Unknown] year. You were very active. Yeah. Yeah. So I, the reason for that is watching hold my focus away[Unknown] from my own experience. So I didn't like to do that. Plus, it didn't really do anything for me.[Phoebe] It didn't turn me on. It didn't make me jealous. It didn't make me envious.[Phoebe] It just did nothing. Yeah. So I was usually more interested in what was going on with the other[Phoebe] woman. I, you know, I wanted to touch her. I wanted to be next to her. And by default, I would,[Phoebe] I would see what was going on. Obviously, the pleasure you were giving her. But[Ed] wasn't really like wanting to sing for you. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas the guys are like, oh, yeah, I[Phoebe] want to watch. Yeah. So it was, it was interesting. And I, I don't, I don't still to this day, don't[Phoebe] really know what switched in my mind. And maybe it is that we are at a level of comfort with one[Phoebe] another, what, 12 years in because most people that are age that starts winging have been in 20[Phoebe] year relationships, 30 year relationships. They've got that bond. They've had kids together.[Phoebe] We didn't have kids together. We weren't married when we started. We didn't have that rock foundation.[Phoebe] Right. So I, you know, I'm guessing that's maybe what it was. I wish I knew what switched in my,[Phoebe] in my mind, but now I love watching. In fact, I love watching to the point where I will actually[Unknown] just sit back and eat the popcorn and not even participate. I'll just watch. It's been a pretty[Unknown] big shift recently. Which is nice. For sure. It's fun. I, I actually enjoy that now. Yeah. You[Unknown] really like it. It's a lot of fun for you. Yeah. And when I was describing how I, I didn't watch,[Ed] I think a lot of it was the environment and other than kind of looking over to see what was going on.[Ed] But I think a lot of it too, I, I do enjoy watching and kind of sitting back on the bed and[Ed] watching you do your thing. And that kind of didn't happen that night all that much. I think we were[Ed] really kind of compartmentalizing and, and being focused on what was going on. So[Ed] we need your help so that your community, the very one you love and have so much fun with can also[Ed] find our show. Here's a really easy way to do that. If you're listening on Apple podcasts or[Ed] Spotify, hit that follow button and leave us a rating. If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe[Ed] and turn on notifications. We can't emphasize enough how much this helps the swing our community.[Ed] And it truly is up to you to make that happen. It makes a massive difference in whether new listeners[Ed] can even find us. And here's the thing. When someone searches Swinger Podcast, the algorithm[Ed] doesn't care how good our content is or how long we've been around. It only cares about ratings[Unknown] and reviews. We'd appreciate it. And your community will really appreciate it. Thanks for listening.[Phoebe] There, well, and our brains were overwhelmed with all the stimulus. There's so many things that[Phoebe] are running through your mind and of course, you know, hormones coursing through your body that you,[Guest] you, you kind of just are in it. Yeah. I, I did want to articulate a little bit better what I[Phoebe] like about watching now. Sure. And it, it comes, I think, to that concept of compersion, where[Phoebe] I can truly sit back and enjoy your enjoyment. Oh, yeah. And enjoy the enjoyment of somebody else.[Phoebe] Mm-hmm. That's receiving pleasure from you. And hearing those sounds of her pleasure and knowing[Phoebe] exactly what you're doing to her gives me joy, gives me pleasure, gives me satisfaction that,[Phoebe] that she's deriving pleasure from an act that you're doing. And I, I don't know, it just makes me[Phoebe] warm and fuzzy. And that I, like I said, believe is that the compersion aspect.[Ed] Yeah, it's like a public service, you know, we're doing, we're doing a good thing for the community.[Phoebe] It is. We're, we're building this way or community one, one couple of times.[Phoebe] I said it a little differently. Yeah. Yeah. You got that.[Ed] Mm-hmm. So one of the things that was in this original comment was about, like the emotional[Unknown] content of, of what we were feeling at the time. And I, I don't think we had really strong[Ed] feelings. Like the jealousy didn't come up. Now, envy didn't come up. And I think part of that was[Ed] we'd probably over-processed it in our heads in terms of like how we wanted it to go and who it was[Ed] and all of that. Like we'd, we'd kind of played it out how it was going to go in our heads. And it[Ed] went really well. Now it could have gone poorly and it may have changed our situation,[Ed] which is probably what happens with a lot of people where they, they try some stuff and then[Unknown] those deep emotions come out. And it brings up past traumas or relationship issues or whatever.[Ed] And it just, there it is. It's like right there in your lap and you have to deal with it.[Unknown] We didn't have a lot of that. Now you, you'd had a previous relationship where he had cheated on you.[Ed] But I kind of think we'd addressed a lot of that stuff within the first like[Unknown] six months or a year of swinging. Yeah. So a lot of conversations around that.[Ed] Yeah. Yeah. And that trauma didn't kind of come back. We kind of like put that aside. And[Ed] he was a guy you were dating. I'm not trying to diminish how that was. But it's not like your[Unknown] husband of like 10 years was cheating on you. Right. The guy was kind of a tool to begin with and[Ed] you'd had red flags all along. And then he finally did it. And so it was kind of like[Ed] yeah, bad on me. Yeah. Yeah. And and well, really bad on him. But just it wasn't too[Ed] unexpected. But it was disappointing, I think, for you. Well, yeah.[Phoebe] The the cheated. Oh, yeah. Well, and it rocked my world. It made me question[Phoebe] how could I not know about what does that say about me as a person to not be able to[Phoebe] to acknowledge those red flags and honor those and and why didn't I see it. Right. And so I[Phoebe] I felt like wow, I can't even I can't even pick a good one. Right. So it became a[Phoebe] beating myself up about it as well. Yeah, exactly. You were very kind to yourself about that.[Ed] No, and realizing that the guy was kind of sticky. He did all the right things because he was quite[Phoebe] the salesman. Oh, yeah, he was he was 100% and it's really good. Yeah, salesman.[Phoebe] Now, there was something else you were touching on where we have experienced NBA I have with[Phoebe] and jealousy with another couple early on. And that played into your connection with her was[Unknown] stronger than my connection with him. Right. So you and the woman were just[Phoebe] vibing off of each other big time just massively. And me and the guy weren't so much. And[Phoebe] I am also a slow warmer so and you aren't so you're you know 10 miles down the road and I'm[Phoebe] way back here. Yeah. So when we are at a sink in that way, it it has bothered me quite a bit. Yeah,[Phoebe] yeah. And I still I still work on that a little bit and I I know that about myself. I'm aware of it[Phoebe] and I use the appropriate language to tell myself, you know, we're fine, we're all good.[Phoebe] Or I will ask for something that I need in that moment. Right. Rather than just let the train[Unknown] get away from us because it's a group activity. Yeah. And and after that, it happened a couple times[Unknown] and small handful of times. I was better at trying to keep pace with where you were and we both did a[Ed] better job of like checking in with each other to see, you know, where we were before we committed[Ed] to anything, et cetera, et cetera. It was an unusual circumstance that one particular night. And[Ed] if I remember right, that was the one in Reno. Yeah. Poker nights and you know,[Ed] I know exactly what it was. And it's interesting because we've run across that couple a few times.[Ed] Yeah. And I don't have the same reaction to her as I did that one night. There was just something[Ed] about her that night that just pressed all my buttons. I don't know what it was.[Unknown] Yeah. That's awesome. So the next question we had from the same gentleman was or from somebody else[Phoebe] was what happened to that couple. And I thought we talked a little bit about that, but we can talk[Ed] about it again. Yeah. Yeah. They they went through some some drama in their their lives. And it[Phoebe] was it was rough. It was ugly. Yeah. They they ended up getting into force. She ended up getting[Phoebe] really sick. She's better now. There's a mass of custody fight. The husband was doing shady[Phoebe] things or accusing her of of doing things to get full custody. Right. It was your typical like[Phoebe] really ugly, really ugly dirty. But to the point where I mean it was he was filing false reports[Phoebe] and things like that. Right. Whether it was true or not, I don't really know because I didn't[Unknown] know them that well. Well, we tended to back off at that point because that wasn't anything we[Ed] wanted to get involved in. I had just been through a divorce and didn't want to deal with all that.[Ed] They go ahead. I was just going to say and this happened a couple of years after we continue to[Ed] interact with them and hang out with them. And I'm pretty sure we had sex with them a number of[Phoebe] times after that before we found out before we found out about you as a serial cheater. Cheater.[Phoebe] Yeah. Which was a whole other thing. And they they were pretty heavy drug users which we didn't[Phoebe] know about until later. So that came out as well. Um, giving drugs to their kids things like that.[Phoebe] I mean, their kids were of age but still it was there was some really crazy dynamics,[Phoebe] family dynamics going on there that weren't the most healthy in my in my humble perspective. But[Ed] yeah, they kind of pros and cons with what they were doing in that particular case. And it's[Ed] I guess the closest equivalent that most people can deal with is, you know, your your kid comes of[Unknown] age for drinking. And so you you set them down and you have your first drink with them[Ed] in a controlled environment where they're not you know that they're safe, et cetera, et cetera.[Ed] Well, they use the same rationale with yeah, the ecstasy. But right. I mean, you know,[Unknown] there's pros and cons to that. I can see both sides. Yeah. Right. It's a little bit, but yeah.[Phoebe] All in all, they they they were lovely people at the time. Mm-hmm. Things got ugly. I'm sure[Unknown] they're still lovely people. A lot of challenges. Yeah. The other unfortunate part was the family,[Phoebe] their extensive family was informed of their lifestyle. Right. And that made it even more.[Ed] Yeah, they kind of ugly. I don't know if they outed themselves or if he kind of outed them,[Ed] something happened and the family found out. And it was they pretty much lost all their family,[Phoebe] which it was been was also very tragic. So it was it was a very stressful time. Yes, for sure.[Phoebe] A stressful time. And and then as a result, they got out of the lifestyle and we haven't[Phoebe] heard from them at all. We don't hear or see them in any of those struggles. She was at a state[Ed] he as far as I know they they moved they sold their house and moved away from from our area. So we[Phoebe] we've never run into them again. No, never. So yeah. Yeah. So that was that.[Ed] The next question we got was when was our next full swap after that first one? So we've ripped the[Ed] bandaid off now. Yeah. Pull the pin on the whatever. And we're we're going. We're we're loose.[Ed] And I'm trying to remember who the next full swap was. It was definitely condoms.[Ed] Always. Yeah. After that, it was definitely with condoms all the time.[Ed] And I would have to say it was probably at one of the big events. And it doesn't stand out.[Ed] It wasn't our first. So it doesn't stand out as much as the the first time. Right. And[Ed] you know, it probably it was probably Miss America and and our bondage buddy. Oh,[Ed] that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun. That may not have been the next one. But that was like[Ed] one of the first ones after that. Yeah. Where it was a big Halloween event. And we ended up being[Phoebe] extra neighbors to them. And we got and we got we we had a really hard time trying to find other[Phoebe] couples. I do remember trying to date other couples from the dating adult dating sites. Yep.[Phoebe] And we'd had a couple dinner dates and drink date and date was a big mistake.[Phoebe] It was too too much commitment. Yeah. We were locked into a booth. We couldn't get up. It was[Phoebe] was just not a great experience as I destroy my studio here. And we we couldn't figure out[Phoebe] what we were doing wrong. Yeah. We were like, okay, we finally got everything right. And now[Guest] everything was wrong again. And it was really disheartening. Sure. And that's when we found our[Phoebe] group with orgies and being DTF. Right. And it we made some really great connections in that[Ed] regard. And that's where we hit our stride. Yeah. A lot of a lot of after parties at the hotel[Ed] events were I think what we spent most of our playtime for sure. And I could probably say they were[Ed] three or four couples that we ended up actually hooking up with with the dinner date kind of[Phoebe] drink date thing the one on one situation. Oh, I don't think so. But literally like two or three.[Ed] Oh, maybe at the time. And some of them turned really weird. We've got some weird stories.[Ed] Yeah. All right. I'm going to pull up the comments from from this episode because we'd[Ed] buy as well, right? We're reading one comment. We'll read through a few more. Here's the first[Ed] comment. Top of the list. And they they learned from us or or they're they're taking their own twist[Ed] on it. And they said, my wife wants a full swap. But I was not sure having both listened to your[Ed] experience. We have decided that we will. But with condoms. Yeah. Good. Good condoms condoms. Good.[Ed] Good. Someone had asked if we had the HPV vaccine. And if I replied at the time, but to let you[Ed] know if you haven't read the comments, we do not have the HPV vaccine because we're too old. And[Ed] it's only administered up to a certain age. Right. And once it's once you're past that age,[Ed] they don't actually give out that vaccine. So if you're within the range, check with your doctor,[Phoebe] it's worth getting vaccinated for. I do have an update on that. However, because we are in a community[Phoebe] that we will list in this video that we love, I have the amazing pleasure of being part of[Phoebe] the lady section part of that community. Anyone can well, you can't, but any lady can.[Phoebe] And one of the women asked her general practitioner to give her that vaccine, even though she was[Phoebe] past that age limit. Interesting. She had the fight to get it. I just didn't think it was effective.[Phoebe] It I think what it is is a little more risky to your health.[Ed] As you start to age, that makes sense. And she really wanted it, she checked with her doctor,[Phoebe] and they agreed, okay, but they they had to really fight for it. And I, I swear she said[Phoebe] her husband got it too. And I don't didn't think that that was a thing for men. Yeah.[Phoebe] So maybe it was just her, but she, she did get it after that age, age limit. So if you want it,[Ed] push for it. Yeah. Talk to your definitely talk to your physician and see if it's an option[Ed] and what the risks are. Yeah. This comment, things haven't changed a lot since we were in the lifestyle[Ed] 40 years ago. Our very first experience was attending a swimmer's dance with maybe 75 or so people[Ed] there. We got invited to a party after the dance to which we obviously said yes. You guys took[Ed] a full year and a half for your first full swap question mark. We did it at the first party and[Ed] never looked back. It was great. I'll leave it there for now. I know, I know a lot of people that[Unknown] have done that. But yeah, jump in both feet. Right. No regrets. Yes. And we've seen people do that[Phoebe] and then leave a lifestyle six months later. But we've also seen people do that that have[Unknown] been together. That's I think the key. They, they've been together for many, many years.[Phoebe] We hadn't been together for very long. No. Like a year. Yeah. So yeah. Oh, and there's,[Ed] there's the ranch hands comment. I will go past that because we did this whole episode just for you.[Unknown] Not just for you, but this particular comment says don't sugarcoat what the other couple did.[Ed] They lied or at least one of them did, which is true. And we've commented on that a number of times[Ed] that yeah, they did. Infidelity in the lifestyle is almost worse than infidelity in a committed[Unknown] monogamous relationship. They're both bad. But in a non monogamous relationship, everybody else[Ed] who's engaged with that couple is also experiencing that infidelity. So if they're out there[Ed] playing unsafely and maybe contracting STIs, any of their partners that are in lifestyle are also[Ed] going to be experiencing that. And if they're lying about it, oh, we're exclusive or we're a[Ed] limited group and only our group do we play bear back with, which we've heard a number of times.[Ed] Based on our experience, that's not really enough to go by because and it's not really true.[Ed] People kind of step out from their relationships or they forgot. Oh, yeah, there was that one other[Ed] girl or that other couple or that unicorn or that one time at Bandcamp. Yeah, or you're at the[Phoebe] club and you hit it off with somebody and you want to seize the moment. You're not going to be[Phoebe] like calling up. You're your your couple at 10 o'clock or 1 a.m. the morning. Hey, I know we have[Phoebe] an agreement that I'm not supposed to be bear back with anybody else, but can I with this girl tonight?[Ed] It's 1 a.m. Can you give it back to me? Hello, you just need a group text message and you just send it[Ed] to everybody when we're like, we're going to get down with this other one. You've all been notified.[Unknown] There you go. Yeah, this one, this was a nice comment. That was a great story. You both sound like[Ed] you are a wonderful couple and very nice people. Thank you for sharing that. Oh,[Unknown] someone else asked, did you do oral? No, I don't think we did not. No, we did not.[Ed] We went straight. Yeah. Yeah. No for play. Straight to business.[Ed] That time. Most of the rest of the time, we're all about the the for play. Yeah.[Ed] Never heard about this before. It sounds like a fleeting experience. How does it affect quality[Ed] of your life overall? I'm not judging. The effects of intimacy stay with me long, long after[Ed] the real-time experience. I think this was a general comment about swinging in general. Yeah.[Phoebe] That's a good question. It is a good question. Are we going to talk about that? Yeah. Okay.[Ed] I think swinging in general is a series of fleeting experiences.[Ed] You remember them, right? They stick with you over time. Yeah. But they're like these brief[Ed] exciting moments. Yeah. It's not the day-to-day excitement that you get with your significant[Unknown] other or your partner. It's random. It's kind of like a hot flash. Yeah. Yes. It's like going on[Phoebe] a vacation and you get this high from going on vacation and you're just like, oh my god,[Phoebe] that was the best vacation. Right. Right. And then over time, it peeders out. Now, I will say[Phoebe] that level of intimacy never, it didn't, I don't want to say. I didn't experience it until[Unknown] we introduced a single male to our dynamic. Right. Which we just talked about in our last episode.[Unknown] Right. So for intimacy, I didn't experience that. And maybe part of that is that we just didn't[Phoebe] know the couples that well. We were in orgies. We were DTF. We knew them well enough[Phoebe] to have good conversation and things like that. But we didn't know them. And we were[Phoebe] in place situations that were always public and exposed because we're, we're, you know,[Phoebe] we're exhibitionists. So we aren't having quiet, intimate, slow moments with the lights in[Phoebe] the bedroom and no one else is around and the music is, but we're not, not that that's what intimacy[Phoebe] is. But I always think intimate is going to be, it's going to be more focused. Right. And[Unknown] we have had a few sessions with a few couples where, you know, those were focused moments. But[Phoebe] I didn't get that. I guess it was intimate. Yeah. I guess it was. So in a non public space,[Phoebe] it's more intimate, but the, the feels from which, which is different than intimacy[Unknown] was way more apparent with the single male. Yeah. And I think that's a really good distinction[Ed] between like emotional attachments or hormonal attachments and having an intimate moment[Unknown] with someone. Because I think, I think we've had a small number of really intimate experiences[Phoebe] with particular couples. Oh, Chico was a really good, that was a really good one. And I think the,[Ed] the New Year's party with all the lights were at the end of the night. It was like 4 a.m. And we,[Ed] we hadn't full swapped with any of the couples there. It was just soft swap with everybody. Yeah.[Ed] That was amazing. And it was very intimate. And everybody was really in touch with each other.[Phoebe] And it was, it was fantastic. Yeah. It was like this pink glow in the room. And everyone was just[Phoebe] mushy and cuddly. Yeah. Glowy. And yeah, it was lovely. It was, it was a great experience. Yeah.[Ed] Yeah. Here's an interesting question. Was there a doctor there to test everybody for STDs?[Phoebe] No. No. And that's not how it works. So there probably was a doctor there, but he wasn't testing.[Unknown] No. And testing really doesn't work until you are starting to show symptoms or that you can run[Ed] a test and detect it. And so the viral or bacterial load has to build up in your system before[Ed] it's even visible in tests. Right. So you could have sex with someone and get a blood test[Ed] right that minute. And it's not going to tell you anything, even if they are just[Unknown] overflowing with STIs. That's right. It just doesn't work. You're still going to take anywhere from[Phoebe] seven to gosh, sometimes seven days, sometimes to like 90 days for some of the STIs. Or longer for[Phoebe] someone, which is why you always retest and not have partners in between. Yes. And using condoms,[Ed] so learn from our mistake. Not that we ended up with an STI, but no, it was a mistake, for sure.[Ed] Hi, guys. Love your videos. My partner and I are new to this. And we are getting the impression[Ed] that most of the sex at that event you were describing was unprotected. Yours clearly was, as you[Ed] described it. What about the other folks? You didn't mention any lube and condom jars supplied by[Ed] the host. I thought this was the norm. Is this typical in larger events? Like this cruises,[Ed] swinger clubs, we're not judging. We're just trying to get ready for our first time. Typically? Yeah,[Ed] there are looms and condoms in a room. There's a small basket. It's hit and miss depends on[Phoebe] the venue. If it's a club, right in Texas or other areas that can have a sex club, then yes,[Phoebe] they will provide those larger events will provide those. But for the most part, women are picky[Phoebe] about their lube and men are picky about their condoms. And women are also picky about their condoms[Phoebe] because some have latex allergies and some can't use homicide in their condoms. So most women[Phoebe] bring their own. And a lot of people did bring their own. This was a house party. They didn't[Phoebe] supply that. Yeah. So everyone just brought their own. We brought our own. We did. We did. We just[Ed] did. And I will say I don't recall condoms at hedonism. No. And I don't recall ever seeing condoms[Ed] at on the cruises. Right. So really big events typically not. Your average house party. Yeah,[Ed] typically they'll put some some lube out and some condoms that house parties that we've been to.[Ed] But that's yeah, about half of them. Yeah, it's up to the discretion of the hosts. Yeah.[Ed] In terms of unprotected sex, I don't recall if unprotected sex was the norm at that party.[Guest] Here's why we sail on virgin. It's adults only. No kids screaming at breakfast. No family buffet[Guest] lines. Just champagne at noon late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there.[Guest] The vibe. Think boutique hotel that happens to float. Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants[Guest] you'd actually pay for on land. Plus when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how[Guest] to have fun, let's just say virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wonder bread[Unknown] cruisers here. Just your people. I don't know. There's a lot of shenanigans in the hot tub. So[Unknown] perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. But I, you know, I wasn't really paying attention. I wasn't really paying[Phoebe] attention. Like you you want it to look and want and enjoy what's going on in front of you,[Phoebe] but you're not like analyzing, you know, you're not like being a creeper. And we weren't looking[Phoebe] specifically for that either. Right. Sometimes light is low. Sometimes you don't see it.[Phoebe] And we got to catch somebody in the moment putting one on all you can't always see it on somebody.[Unknown] So it was a little bit hard to tell. This is another one. The no condom was a shocker after being[Ed] in the lifestyle for a few years. I, pardon me, I had a repeat partner that just took my condom off[Ed] and kept going later after an HIV scare. I told my wife at the time I was out. We tested negative,[Ed] but our usual couple tested positive. A few couples at that time, what tested positive. We were[Ed] lucky to get out negative. We saw a few couples split and it wasn't pretty. This was back when we[Ed] lived in central Florida, big scene there. Be safe, condom, condom, condom. Yeah. 100% agree. And[Ed] it's, it was one of those like key to the moment things and it could have been very bad.[Phoebe] It could have been really bad. And I, I honestly attribute that to just our, our level of confidence.[Phoebe] Speaking up, using our words. Right. So we were so excited in the moment. We didn't want to ruin[Phoebe] the mood. It wouldn't have ruined the mood. We didn't know that we were awkward. Yeah.[Phoebe] You know, it just, yeah, it wasn't our best decision. And we rectified that very quickly[Ed] because we got scared. Yeah. This is another ST, STI question. One major, major thing that[Ed] prevents me from doing that is that we might get some venereal disease. How do you know the other[Ed] people are disease free? I can't bring myself to get with another girl not knowing anything about[Ed] her any tips. You know, you don't know. It's a, it is a level of risk, but that is exactly why you[Ed] wear condoms because you put as much protection as you can on. And you do a risk assessment. We did our[Phoebe] own risk assessment that fit us and our life. And we did our research. We researched all the risks[Phoebe] for all the STIs. How they're cured. What happens when you get them? How long it, you know, what,[Phoebe] what does it look like when you get one? Right. Right. How long does it last? We went to the CDC[Phoebe] and a whole bunch of other websites and did our research. Yep. And our level of risk at the time[Guest] we started was different when we were raising kids. Yeah. Versus, you know, not raising kids. So we[Phoebe] and as we've progressed in the lifestyle, we've we've learned more about STIs and medicines have[Phoebe] changed. They've, they've got prep now and other preventative medicines. What's the other way? Not[Phoebe] prep is the preventative one, but what's the other one? There's a pet also. A pet. That's the one I was[Phoebe] thinking of. Yeah. So your risk level may be different based on, you know, what you've got going[Phoebe] on in your life. And who, who you need to be, be there for your, your health, your personal health,[Phoebe] how you feel about that. I have a really good friend who, who is a professor germaphobe and she is[Phoebe] really, really picky about what she will do and with who and how and if you want to have sex with[Phoebe] her, you basically have to walk into the room like you're a surgeon. Yeah. It's suit me up, doctor.[Unknown] Yeah. Yeah. So everyone's different. Yeah. And a number of other people commented on, you know,[Ed] STIs just in general. And one thing I want to be really clear about, because I think there's a[Unknown] misconception with swingers that, you know, it's a free for all and everybody's just having sex with[Ed] everybody else and, you know, STIs are pretty rampant. It's actually pretty low in terms of STIs,[Ed] because people are being careful and they are using condoms generally. They are washing up in[Phoebe] between partners. Yeah. And there's a lot of mutual respect for other couples. And so you don't[Ed] want to do that to somebody else. Right. I will say that if you are a serial monogamous or you are[Ed] a single person and you're out having a good time and you're sowing your wild oats, you're probably[Ed] at a higher risk because these are random connections. And you just, you don't know very much about[Ed] the person that you're dating at that particular time or hooking up with from a bar. So understand[Ed] that risk is risk. And if you're not playing protected, then you are running a higher risk. So,[Phoebe] you know, and we, we, we have run into couples that are unapologetic about their position. And[Phoebe] they say, you know what? I like, I don't care. My, I don't, I don't like condoms. I play bearback. And[Phoebe] do you know what? If I get something, there's a medicine for it. Right. We've, we've met a number of[Ed] couples. And that's our perspective. So we still choose to wear condoms with them, which is[Phoebe] their, they're right to have that position. And well, usually we don't play with people with that[Ed] perspective. That's, that's true. We know them. Oh, we, we don't. Well, yes, because you can[Phoebe] still get STIs around the condom, depending on what's going on in the area. Correct. Yes, condoms[Ed] do not make you bulletproof. No. But they do go a long way to, to helping. Yeah.[Ed] So if there is a known STI, there's definitely things that you can do to help with that. Yeah.[Unknown] And remember, if it's the prep or the pet, but they are a, a prophylactic treatment pre STI.[Ed] So talk to your doctor. And let's see what else we have here. Yeah, I, I, you know,[Ed] in general, I think most people were concerned about the, the STIs, the potential STI scares. And[Ed] just generally the reaction and whatever happened to that couple. So I think we covered just about[Phoebe] all of that. Perfect. Well, keep commenting and keep questioning. We'd love. I really love answering[Ed] these questions about you. Oh, yeah. Definitely. And if you have a question that you want to ask us[Ed] directly, feel free to call us at 916-538-0482 or go to our website and do a, use our little hotline.[Phoebe] It's really cool. And we'll mask your voice and change your name if you want it. So just let us know.[Phoebe] And you can record there as well because it's completely anonymous on the website. And we'll put[Phoebe] you on, on air. We'll put you right on the podcast. Yeah. We'd love to hear your comments.[Unknown] So let us know. And as we say, keep learning. Keep growing. And keep it sexy.[Ed] One last thing before you go, if this episode helped you in any way,[Ed] the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review.[Ed] It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship education.[Ed] And we've made it easy. Visit SwingerUniversity.com forward slash review. All the instructions are there.[Ed] Thank you for being part of this community. We'll see you again soon.