Does your swinger card expire?

Feeling like the lifestyle doesn’t light you up anymore? You’re not alone—and this episode is for you.

In this powerful conversation, Ed and Phoebe from Swinger University sit down with Kel from Expansive Connection to talk about what it really means when your desires evolve and swinging starts to feel... different.

🌶️Get extra episodes and exclusive content: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity
🛳️Book your vacation with us: http://SwingerVacation.net
Join our YouTube channel to get access to perks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe7DmFew6-HGxq-4ocl61LQ/join

🔥 Whether it’s the same parties, same people, or just a fading thrill, this episode explores how to:

- Recognize when your lifestyle interests shift
- Embrace change without guilt or shame
- Let go of self-judgment and outdated identities
- Rewrite your story and rediscover what truly lights you up

💬 Kel—Certified Adult Chair Coach, Relational Life Therapy Coach, and Enneagram Coach—shares transformative tools to help you reconnect with your authentic self and reignite passion in your relationships.

✨ If you’re feeling stuck, burned out, or like the tribe you once loved doesn’t feel like home anymore, this episode is your invitation to something new.

Sources
https://www.expansiveconnection.com/

Transcript

0:00

[Guest] Picture this, you're at an event that used to light you up, same faces, same music, same vibe,[Guest] but something feels off. The energy that once fueled you now feels distant. Your tribe is[Guest] drifted, the thrill has faded and suddenly you're questioning if you even belong here anymore.[Guest] Maybe it's nostalgic keeping you stuck, maybe it's the fear of missing out.[Unknown] But what if this shift isn't a loss? It's an invitation to something new.[Guest] Welcome to Swinger University, I'm Ed. And on PB.[Guest] Today we're talking to KEL from expansive connection and we're breaking down what it means[Guest] when your desires evolve and how to embrace change without guilt.[Guest] It's time to let go of self-judgment, rewrite your story and step boldly into the next chapter[Ed] of you. Let's dive in. KEL is a certified adult chair coach, certified relational therapy[Ed] coach, and certified NNA. Oh, I knew I was going to mess that up, and then NNA, NNA, NNA, NNA.[Ed] Graham. Eminem, I'm in. KEL is going to fix that in a second here specializing in relationships[Ed] using the adult chair model. She guides individuals in uncovering their true selves, cultivating self[Ed] love and deepening their ability to listen to their inner voice. If you're[Ed] feeling stuck on a sense that life holds more for you, Kel will help you explore[Ed] your path to fulfilling one of a kind life and turn it into reality. She also[Ed] works with singles and couples seeking lasting transformation in how they[Ed] connect and communicate with Kel's guidance. You'll rediscover self-love and[Ed] reignite the spark in your relationships. So welcome, Kel. Thank you. And please[Phoebe] correct my flub. Any a gram, any a gram is the word you were trying to say[Phoebe] the little fumble there. Yes. So I am thrilled to be here and yes, happy to talk[Phoebe] about all of the things that Ed so eloquently led us up to, but also and[Phoebe] certified in the adult chair, which is a podcast by Vishal Shafant from the[Phoebe] Vishal Shafant show. I think it's what it's called now, but it is a model for[Unknown] interparts work, which is very useful in therapeutic coaching, which is what[Phoebe] we do, expansive connection. Also, in any gram certified in the any a gram is[Phoebe] just a tool to better understand personality. So there's lots of great[Phoebe] personality tools out there. The any a gram is just my favorite personally[Phoebe] because it really did digs indeed on why we do what we do and helps us to[Phoebe] understand ourselves. And also the people that we love and live with. So it is[Phoebe] very useful. And yes, I'm happy to be here to represent on the team and[Ed] experience the connection with you guys today. Yay, welcome. We're so we're so[Ed] happy that you're here with us today because the the journey of opening up your[Ed] relationship and and sharing your partner with with somebody else in in any[Ed] form is is challenging. It really is a a a very personal growth process. Yeah,[Ed] definitely. And resources are really important when we first started. The resources[Ed] weren't weren't there. All we had were podcasts really to listen to and everyone's[Ed] experiences different, which was great. It gave us a lot of a lot of things to[Ed] sample from. But sometimes you just can't find what's unique to you. And that's[Ed] why your guys' service is so great and wonderful because you listen to people[Ed] all day all along, you know, all day long all week long. And you've got this[Ed] wealth of information from a bunch of couples and singles experiences as[Ed] they're going through this journey. So we're super excited that you're here.[Phoebe] Absolutely. And it's interesting. We had a connection or four coaches, but we[Phoebe] all also were walking our own road on the UNM. So we do it differently. Each of us[Phoebe] do it a little differently. Of course, since there's so many different ways to do[Phoebe] that, but we all are practicing that in our own lives and our relationships. So I[Phoebe] think it does to feed you your point, give people perspective. It gives us a way[Phoebe] to help people from being on the same side of the street with them. And maybe not[Phoebe] just being compassionate to the side of the street they're on, but actually[Phoebe] having, you know, swept the sidewalks and mode the grass and clean the gutters on[Phoebe] that side of the road with them. So yes, it's very happy to work with with people.[Phoebe] And we really focus on relationships. Because like you said, that's the hard[Phoebe] part of opening up is, how do I share this person and how do we manage our[Phoebe] relationship as it changes and grows and evolves and devolves and all the[Unknown] things that happen when we try to become different people? Yeah, exactly. Speaking[Guest] of evolving. So we've kind of titled this episode as an aging out. And that's[Guest] kind of our turn of phrase on the whole thing, but it's less about age and more[Guest] about maybe habitualization and like just doing the same thing over and over[Guest] again and it kind of loses its luster, right? It's lost that new swing or smell,[Guest] as we say. So let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah, we ourselves are 11, 12[Ed] years in now and we're experiencing that, that type of lack of lackluster. And[Ed] and some of it has to do with our tribe disappearing and trying to find a new[Unknown] tribe or tribe is fractured because things change. Or some people, it's some of[Ed] our friends they say that they're just too old and I don't agree with that. I[Ed] think, I mean, I understand that that's a perspective, but I know a lot of[Ed] people continue that as they age. And then we're also wanted to kind of get[Ed] your feedback on, you know, how do you start again or make it fresh or how do[Ed] you renegotiate all of that? So that's kind of where we're starting right[Phoebe] there. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's interesting because I agree with you,[Phoebe] Phoebe, I don't think that there is an age limit to this. You know, it's not the[Phoebe] opposite of getting carted. When you're going into a bar, I'll excite it with[Phoebe] your fake ID. And then there's some opposite end of that. The Swinger[Phoebe] Hattles where it's like, Oh, sorry, sorry, your ID says you're a little too old to[Phoebe] get into this event. And I've all seen couples that are, you know, into their[Phoebe] 70s. Yeah, maybe even older, you know, never want to go up and ask them unless[Unknown] they offered it, but that are still enjoying resorts and parties and friends[Phoebe] and some of the the joy and the fun and the levity that E&M has to offer. So[Phoebe] yeah, it doesn't feel like it's just some arbitrary number on the birthday cake.[Unknown] But I think there is something to this idea that the same thing, sometimes[Phoebe] that lights us up, getting into something new. So we'll talk a little brain[Phoebe] science and geek out a little bit here is also what sometimes fades away and[Phoebe] makes us not so motivated to do things. So, you know, the brain's an interesting[Unknown] thing that runs our whole lives. And most of us that have been in in and long[Phoebe] enough have heard of NRE, you know, this new relationship energy that the[Phoebe] brain gets really, really hopped up on all the dopamine and serotonin that[Phoebe] meeting someone new kind of lights up in our bodies. And that actually[Phoebe] happens with any kind of novelty. The brain does the same thing about a fun[Phoebe] activity. You know, if you've ever gotten into a new hobby, a new sport, a new[Phoebe] book series, your brain does the same thing. It gets really, really excited. And[Phoebe] suddenly, all you want to do is like, cool, all you want to do is bake sourdough.[Phoebe] All you want to do is finish the next chapter in this book series. So the[Phoebe] brain loves new. It loves the idea of brand new stimuli and getting it all[Phoebe] worked up and sending all of these hormones for a body that say, this is new,[Unknown] this is fine, this is exciting. And that happens in all kinds of things with[Phoebe] people, of course, the kind of classic NRE, but also with activities. And so[Phoebe] for a lot of people, when they get into nomenogamy, they find themselves in[Phoebe] that space of loving the novelty of something they have never done with[Phoebe] people they never know existed in places they didn't know or even possible.[Phoebe] And so that becomes very exciting and very, a very big driver of why they're[Phoebe] showing up to do it. Well, what happens when, say, for you guys this example,[Phoebe] a decade goes by, well, the brain can't create that kind of energy for that[Phoebe] long of a period of time around a new thing, because guess what? Suddenly,[Unknown] it's not so new. Five years, 10 years in. This isn't new. This is familiar.[Phoebe] And so all of the things that really get people going sometimes fade away[Phoebe] and without something else to kind of backfill all of those brain[Phoebe] chemicals. When you settle into familiar, it can be easy to kind of not be[Phoebe] able to kind of generate the enthusiasm, the energy to keep going into[Phoebe] something, especially when they're struggles in terms of people squitting[Phoebe] going and you're losing friends. And so suddenly there's some sorrow there.[Guest] That's a day held a climb. Yeah. Yeah. We know when we first got in,[Unknown] pretty much every event was like amazing. It was like a level, you know,[Unknown] 12 experience because it was new. It's something that we'd never experienced[Guest] before. It's like having that new food for the first time or, you know,[Guest] all that new hobby that you have that you just invest everything into.[Unknown] And we, we kind of rekindled that as we went because it was a new location[Guest] or it was a new group of people. And I think a lot of our kind of lack of[Unknown] NRE, if you will, is that we keep seeing the same people at these events[Guest] and it's become kind of like the typical crowd. And, you know, we've either[Guest] we've either run our course with that particular group of people.[Guest] Or we just didn't have an attraction to them or, you know, it's just like,[Guest] yeah, it's going to be the same thing. And I'm just not excited to even show up[Guest] at the party, let alone engage and move forward with that.[Guest] So what are some things that we can do to help with that?[Phoebe] Sure. Well, I think really it's finding everything in life that we're[Phoebe] trying to make ourselves do. We're trying to keep ourselves doing[Phoebe] or just interested in doing. We really do better as humans if we create a sense[Phoebe] of why. You know, this question of why we do something, why is really a motivator?[Phoebe] So when we start anything that we want to do for a long time, we really can[Unknown] come up with, usually, unless it's, you know, we just drank too much and there[Phoebe] we were. And here we are. And what we do, you know, those are, of course,[Phoebe] usually not as quite as thought out ideas and those content. So that's[Phoebe] right out to be a lot of fun. But they're not sustaining sustaining things for[Phoebe] our systems, whether that system be ourselves or a relationship, usually[Phoebe] mean a good motivation and the motivation of course is going to be the why.[Phoebe] So the why for you guys that existed 10 years ago, most likely does not[Phoebe] still exist. And so if you're trying to chase the same why and binding it empty,[Phoebe] you're just not putting enough gas in the tank to go. So a lot of times we'll[Phoebe] talk to couples and say, you know, it's sometimes it's a good idea to sit[Phoebe] back down, you know, pat and paper, pen and pencil and say, why would we put[Phoebe] the time and the energy and the emotion and the money and any other resource[Phoebe] that you guys are putting into this activity now? And that can become a real[Phoebe] start from scratch, mind, mat, brainstorming thing because maybe some of[Phoebe] the people that would have been in part of your wife, five years ago, like[Phoebe] Phoebe said, have no longer present. They're not even here anymore. Well,[Phoebe] then that's not a why. So it's digging into and I always challenge people in any[Phoebe] couple, there are three ways. There's my why, there's your why, and there's[Phoebe] more why. There's the us why. And so I've challenged people before as a[Phoebe] homework assignment after coaching to go home and literally make a column,[Phoebe] me, you, us. And then what is good for me still here? What would be a[Phoebe] challenge? What would be a push? What would be a motivator that could create[Unknown] enough energy, enough momentum to get us to go to places? Maybe we need to go[Phoebe] to different places. Maybe the new motivation is we'd like to travel and do[Phoebe] this. And so we're not seeing the same people that we love in our neighborhood[Phoebe] and our town. But instead, we're going to take this on the road. And we're[Phoebe] going to start to go to events that are in different cities and different[Phoebe] towns, maybe even different countries. Maybe the motivator is we'd like to[Phoebe] be, you know, to some of Phoebe's friends, we're way we're at the are the older[Phoebe] people in the crowd now, or at least in that segment of the population.[Phoebe] Then maybe we want to try to invest in some younger people that we see coming[Phoebe] on the scene with some in some insight. We want to mentor people now.[Phoebe] We want to take people who are new and and befriend them and be a way to kind[Phoebe] of pass on the lessons we've learned and help their road be maybe a little[Phoebe] easier or just different than ours was. So there's all kinds of wise, but[Phoebe] without a clear one, we will really suffer from a lack of initiative, a lack of[Phoebe] enthusiasm and a lack of energy to go into these things that we want to enjoy.[Unknown] They could enjoy again. All right. We need your help so that your[Guest] community, the very one you love and have so much fun with can also find our[Guest] show. Here's a really easy way to do that. If you're listening on Apple[Guest] podcasts or Spotify, hit that follow button and leave us a rating. If you're[Guest] watching on YouTube, subscribe and turn on notifications. We can't emphasize[Guest] enough how much this helps the Swinger community and it truly is up to you to[Guest] make that happen. It makes a massive difference in whether new listeners can[Unknown] even find us. And here's the thing. When someone searches Swinger podcast, the[Guest] algorithm doesn't care how good our content is or how long we've been around.[Unknown] It only cares about ratings and reviews. We'd appreciate it. And your community[Unknown] will really appreciate it. Thanks for listening. Yeah, we've we've we've done a[Ed] little bit of that that Y analysis and we when we were under a lot of stress[Ed] and we needed to to to regroup. We shut down the podcast for about who's[Ed] supposed to be three months, but I said I need another month. And it it helped[Ed] us regroup and figure out that why. Why are we doing this? And this was last[Ed] year. And the reason we came up with is the community. We couldn't just give[Ed] it up. I mean, it was so integral in our in our lives that we had to we had to[Ed] keep networked and we started finding ways to do that and keep giving back. The[Ed] podcast is one of the ways that we keep getting back when Ed and I sit down and[Ed] talk together in front of the microphone. That's one of my these are some of my[Ed] most favorite moments because we're very we're connecting in a very real way.[Ed] And I think a lot of it is is that very purposeful conversation. It's the eye to[Guest] eye contact conversation. Right. Right. And we're engaging mentally and[Ed] sharing information. We're having fun doing it. And I I didn't want to stop[Unknown] doing that. And he didn't want to stop doing that. And we did we we realized[Ed] we do like to travel. And we're going to have to start traveling now because our[Ed] community is somewhat procured and different here. And so we we are starting to[Ed] do that as well. But the the focus is shifted too. It's not it's not about the[Ed] sex anymore. The that you know, somebody new and different, right? It's not[Ed] about that anymore. It's it's about the people really because you can just be[Ed] so authentic with everyone. You could talk about anything. And people are just[Ed] very open and nonjudgmental. And that's what's lovely. It's it's very it's like[Unknown] being at a nudist resort, right? You just take off your clothes and you walk[Unknown] around. You're like judgment. You just feel free. And and it's funny. I'm using[Ed] that analogy because I don't like nudist. I mean, I'm not actually really feel[Ed] comfortable there. I can go, but it's not really my thing. But it's still kind of[Guest] that. Yes, that shedding your your preconceptions and your your baggage, right?[Guest] You're just kind of dropping all of that and just being there in the moment[Guest] with people and just just enjoying it. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think that[Phoebe] that's a beautiful analogy to anybody who's ever been to the clothing[Phoebe] options were will instantly understand that nonjudgment. It's just like, oh,[Phoebe] it's just like another Thursday here. I mean, you know, it's very relaxed and[Phoebe] very, but also, I think something metaphorical happens when people take off[Phoebe] their clothes, they tend to take down their guard and a lot of other ways too.[Unknown] And so you get these really rich and really deep conversations with people[Phoebe] about things that really, really matter, you know, versus surface level[Phoebe] talk that happens a lot with people that we know. And so there is something to[Phoebe] be desired about again, these not just the conversations you and Ed are having,[Phoebe] which are beautiful and you let us sometimes listen in on, but that you could[Phoebe] have those kind of conversations with other people too is really a wonderful[Phoebe] lie to continue to create community in this open environment. What happens[Unknown] with couples when they their needs change, maybe the one of their partners wants[Ed] to continue the lifestyle, they want to continue having new sexual experiences.[Ed] Or maybe they decide, you know, it's not, it's not sex, it's more,[Ed] they want to experience maybe the BDSM side of those types of sensory[Ed] experiences. And their partner could either care less or they want some,[Ed] you know, we're talking, you know, different, right? Sure things are starting[Guest] to transition. Right. The wise are have, have, you know,[Guest] deviated, if you will, you know, they've kind of split a little bit.[Phoebe] Yeah, for sure. And first, let me say that also it's always a valid[Phoebe] like just saying, you know, this isn't for me, just like any other hobby,[Phoebe] just like any other interest is never something to be, you know, to chase[Phoebe] to the ends of the earth, you have to find a why. Sometimes there's just not a[Phoebe] why for people. Sometimes people had a why and again, maybe a decade has gone[Phoebe] by and they just can't generate another one or their life has changed.[Phoebe] And now maybe they have grandchildren or maybe they have different financial[Phoebe] responsibilities or maybe their health is different. And so I always want to[Phoebe] say that, you know, to say, this no longer meets my needs and no longer[Phoebe] up is just something that I have a capacity for is extremely valid and one of[Phoebe] many options for people to say. So to your point, what if one part of a[Phoebe] partnership, one part of a couple says, you know, I just don't think this is[Unknown] for me. I don't think I can add this in with all the other things that our[Phoebe] life has now includes. And the other person says, well, I want to.[Phoebe] Well, I think what happens is what happens about a lot of things for couples.[Phoebe] And we just do it. So naturally, we don't really think about it this way.[Phoebe] But that is we we entered into negotiation. So being in a couple any for more[Phoebe] than five minutes means that we have shown up to the table to negotiate with[Phoebe] another human being how to get our wants, how to get our needs, how to get[Phoebe] the things that we just desire done. And then also how to have this other[Unknown] person do that same thing. And so couples, that's a lot of time where couples[Phoebe] will come to see a coach is to help in that negotiation process.[Phoebe] Maybe they feel like, you know, and it's really interesting. I really take[Phoebe] this coaching for sort of a business background and really treat it that way[Phoebe] and say, okay, well, here's all of the options for your negotiation. You know,[Phoebe] how how willing are you to accommodate your partner? You know,[Phoebe] accommodations, just one of the places on negotiation. How much compromise can[Phoebe] we find here? Can you move a little left and they move a little right? Is there[Phoebe] a new way to see this? That's not more nothing, but somewhere in the middle.[Phoebe] And sometimes couples can use negotiation to create consensus, which is[Phoebe] different than compromise. It's sort of like creating a brand new idea, not[Phoebe] I lose a little you lose a little, but really this sort of start fresh with what[Phoebe] do you need and what do you want? Why do you want that? And how could that be[Phoebe] fine with me and not bother me at all if you wanted to go and explore BDS and[Phoebe] play with someone? And I was not involved. Well, what I need to feel safe[Phoebe] about that? What would I need for there to not be any resentment about you taking[Phoebe] the time and the energy away from us? And that conversation is really kind of[Phoebe] building or creating a new thing, which becomes this consensus decision that[Phoebe] we negotiate out. So couples can do that in a lot of different ways. And[Phoebe] sometimes they just aren't used to the skills or they just haven't done it[Phoebe] around something. Maybe that's as tender or as sensitive as sexual ideas and[Phoebe] sexual openness.[Guest] Yeah, we've definitely come to kind of a consensus in terms of what we wanted[Guest] to do. And we'd we talked about traveling more and wanting to see parts of[Guest] the world. There's so many things to see, right? Our bucket list just[Guest] it doesn't get any shorter. We keep adding locations that we want to go see[Guest] and things that we want to go experience. And we're starting to think that[Guest] maybe this travel aspect, you know, traveling to Europe. And we make it maybe[Guest] a blended vacation. So a little bit of vanilla and a little bit of some[Guest] swirl in there and we get some sprinkles. We hit Amsterdam. We hit, you[Guest] know, London and we find a club and we do that one night, but we're there for[Guest] a week. So it's something different. We get to experience something different.[Unknown] We get to kind of maybe recharge some of that that swing or energy, but we're[Guest] still we're we haven't compromised, you know, we neither one of us have lost[Guest] what we want to do. We're just doing it a different way, as you said.[Ed] How do what's your advice for people that have a lot of[Guest] FOMO because it's it's very real. They're in they're in chats or they see[Unknown] an event on Instagram or something and they they just they want to they want to[Ed] go, but they, you know, they can't or they they book too many and they[Ed] finances don't don't allow for them to go. And they just have this, you know,[Ed] just this doom of FOMO looming over them. What's the best way to kind of break[Ed] out of that or reset from feeling like that? Yeah. Well, I think first of all,[Phoebe] it's probably going to take a little bit of digging to figure out what's[Phoebe] underneath, you know, fear of missing out. What what is scary to you? And, you[Phoebe] know, come to me. Is it jealousy? I'm jealous that, you know, other people are[Phoebe] doing something and it's it feels like I'm not getting to go and and that's[Phoebe] taking something away from me. You know, usually, especially if it's not your[Phoebe] partner that's involved, jealousy is sort of like this universal scare city[Phoebe] mindset. Like, well, you know, the whole world and all the fun is a big pizza.[Phoebe] And if these people are taking a big slice over here because they're in[Phoebe] Hito and they're having a great time and I'm sitting on the couch, that's[Phoebe] taking something from me for them to have this other thing. And so, you know,[Phoebe] it's is that my mindset is my mindset that this is somehow costing me[Phoebe] something for these other people to be joyful and and then that's a place to[Phoebe] dig and well, this this is sort of thought management work. Well, how do I[Unknown] think about fun in the world? And sometimes that is a root of jealousy for[Phoebe] people. Sometimes it's it's an in-be thing. I want those people have. And that[Phoebe] stirs in me kind of a yucky sadness. But can I use that to generate those[Phoebe] negative feelings or harder feelings are just as powerful to negative to[Phoebe] I'm sorry to get us to move. They're just as powerful to generate energy as[Phoebe] positive ones. So we could also kind of harness that envy and say, wow, what[Phoebe] is this telling me? It's telling me that I wish I was having some fun. Okay,[Phoebe] well, maybe the budget doesn't allow me to go to Hito. But maybe the budget[Phoebe] allows my partner and I go out and dress really fancy and get a hotel room[Phoebe] in our town. And we're going to make a big night of it. And we're going to[Phoebe] really go up town. And we're going to maybe even do some role play where we're[Phoebe] out and pretend to be on a first date or any kind of imagination thing. Just[Phoebe] to harness some energy that I'm envious of other people are seeing. So, you[Phoebe] know, it could it could create fears of as we talk to beginning, well, maybe[Phoebe] this is slipping away from me because I'm getting older or my finances are[Phoebe] getting tighter as I do get older or our time is getting more limited. So I[Phoebe] think really looking at what's happening behind that feeling of fear or[Phoebe] whatever it represents and then figuring out if those thoughts are serving me[Phoebe] and if those thoughts that I'm thinking can actually push me in a direction[Phoebe] that would make me feel better or create something new for me is really the[Phoebe] hard work. Because that's hard work. It's easy to just feel miserable. Oh,[Phoebe] everyone's having fun, but me and kind of swirl in that negativity or that[Phoebe] hard versus stepping out of that and going, well, wait, what am I thinking here?[Phoebe] Do I think that them having fun is costing me? Well, that's not how I want to be[Phoebe] the world. So I'm going to stop reminading on that thought. Or am I thinking[Phoebe] that they're doing something fun? And I want to do something fun? Well, let me[Phoebe] put that energy into pursuing something fun within my scope. And let me go do[Phoebe] that. So I really push people to get underneath it and see what they can do[Unknown] about those hard feelings. Here's why we sail on Virgin. It's[Guest] adults only. No kids screaming at breakfast. No family buffet lines. Just[Guest] champagne at noon. Late night pool parties and people who actually want to be[Guest] there. The vibe. Think boutique hotel that happens to float. Tattoo parlors,[Guest] drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land. Plus when you're[Guest] looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's just say[Guest] Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wonder bread[Unknown] cruisers here. Just your people. Yes, great that you bring that up. It's been a[Guest] while actually since we've talked about jealousy and envy. We did an episode[Unknown] pretty early on about that. And I think it's important to kind of reinforce[Guest] that a lot of the feelings that we have kind of get shoved under those umbrellas[Guest] and that there is really that's more symptomatic of something underlying[Guest] something else that's going on. And I love the fact that you kind of say use that[Guest] energy and and and flip it. It's kind of like adversity is the mother of[Guest] invention, right? So you're like, Hey, I've got this this problem that I have to[Guest] solve and I love solving problems. That's that's my thing. So it really is this[Guest] opportunity to to create change in your own life and kind of figure out what[Unknown] that underlying thing is to to better your situation to better your mood. And[Guest] you're so right in terms of it's very easy to sit in that space. All you have[Guest] to do is watch the news, open Instagram, any social media platform, and you can[Guest] instantly feel this FOMO or this overwhelming sense of dread because there's so[Guest] many things going on in the world where we're just like it's hopeless. Like we[Unknown] there's there's nothing we can do. And we all have to do a better job of trying[Guest] to reframe our thoughts and think about things in terms of well, what can I do[Guest] about it? Like it's okay to to acknowledge those feelings, but like now what[Guest] are you going to do about it? Where are you going to go with this? So it's fantastic.[Ed] I love that. Yeah, it's like that. I always look at it as like the pie, the[Ed] pie of life, right? Where you maybe the pieces of your pie got a little off[Ed] balance where, you know, maybe too much time is spent on one area and you're[Ed] neglecting maybe the another area and you need to kind of rebalance. And then[Ed] that FOMO is like you said, right in your face and then digging down into it[Ed] and going, what is it? Where, you know, what is going on? Why am I feeling like[Ed] this? And then you start to see, wow, you know, I guess I could I should, you[Ed] know, could should try not to say should work on this, right? Look at this and[Ed] and supplement that in a different way. If I can't do this, then like you said, I[Unknown] really like that idea of, you know, interjecting that fun in a different way.[Guest] It pops into my mind too. It's like, hey, all of our friends are at Hito hanging out[Guest] doing their thing. Well, no, not all of them. You probably have friends at home who[Guest] didn't get to go to Hito too. Maybe you have them over for, you know, a drink,[Guest] go out on a date night with them, go see them, like whatever. It doesn't matter.[Guest] Create your own fun space with the people who didn't necessarily get to go. And, you know,[Guest] it's a great opportunity to reach out to people you hadn't talked to in a while and say, hey,[Guest] I'm feeling a little left out. So I thought I'd help, you know, help and contribute and I[Phoebe] haven't seen you in a while. Yeah. Yeah. What a beautiful use of that energy. And, you know,[Phoebe] motions are just our brain telling us to do something. That's the funny thing about emotions[Phoebe] is that it's literally just a neural synapse coming from your brain into your body in this[Phoebe] form of feeling. And the brain is trying to get you to do something. And sometimes the thing[Phoebe] is just to be joyful and take in the moment. But sometimes the thing is to move, get up off the couch[Phoebe] and do something. And if we listen to emotions in an act on them, we tend to actually feel less of[Phoebe] the feeling because once we're in an action state, we're really not in an emotional state anymore.[Unknown] And so what happens is when people don't move and they just sort of ruminate, the motion just[Phoebe] gets bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier because it's not actually being used for what it's[Phoebe] purposes. And it just doesn't really know to do it itself. So it's just like, well, I guess we'll[Phoebe] just add story and stay here and mope around in this emotion versus taking it as a stimulus to go[Phoebe] and find something else to do to say to think about and all of those things. So yeah, excellent.[Guest] Yeah, it's that that kind of downward spiral, right? Where the that sense of[Unknown] emotion that you're feeling, whatever it is, if you sit in it too long, it just keeps[Unknown] building on itself, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, and I think getting out and going and doing[Guest] things, I think that's been one of our solutions too. And a lot of times when we feel overwhelmed,[Guest] we'll go backpacking, we'll go on a hike, we'll go do something different. And it's it's really hard[Guest] to be to be in that couch mood and that kind of doom-scrolling mood when you've got[Guest] nature around you and birds flying and the sun is amazing or it's raining on you, whichever[Guest] one, right? Like nature has a way of kind of breaking us out of that. So there's something[Guest] that each of us really enjoys doing. And I think that's that's an opportunity,[Unknown] a motivation to go do it. It's it's maybe you can answer this because it's it's a brain chemistry[Guest] thing. Is this tied into that whole fight or flight kind of that that lizard brain that we all have[Guest] where our brain really has kind of something's wrong or I'm doing okay and it's is it that that's[Phoebe] that's being triggered? Well, I think anytime that we feel emotions and our nervous system gets[Phoebe] involved, then we're dealing with old sciencey brain chemistry. So it I think it depends on[Unknown] you know what what's being tripped in my system, for example. So if my reaction historically to[Phoebe] hard emotion, heavy emotion, emotions like fear, you know, anxiety, difficulty, being left out,[Phoebe] being you know, judging myself poorly or not worthy enough is to freeze, which is a nervous[Phoebe] system reaction, then all of the sudden I freeze that we all have these little computers in our[Phoebe] hands. So it's very difficult to freeze and actually not take any data. We just still take[Phoebe] in data and of course what data do we take in more data that keeps us frozen, you know, we tend to[Phoebe] of course the algorithms are going to point us that way anyway, but we just choose to be in this[Phoebe] state of more fear, more anxiety, more worthlessness. And so that freeze that maybe was a nervous system[Phoebe] or a lizard brain reaction isn't really serving us because we sort of double down with technology[Phoebe] or we double down with those things, whereas you know some people feel difficult or hard emotions[Phoebe] and they instantly go into action more of a fight. They're like okay well I don't want to feel[Phoebe] this way and so I'm going to find this a motivator to get up and go out to go outside to go speak[Phoebe] to someone I love to listen to a podcast and have a walk to get online and find out when the next[Phoebe] event is that I could go to and might could use closer to me or further away. They spring into action.[Phoebe] So yes, it all any other nervous system is activated. It's just going to be how we respond and what[Phoebe] are go to to keep ourselves safe because that's what the brain is always trying to do that lizard brain[Phoebe] always wants to keep us safe and for some of us safety means stay on the couch don't move don't[Phoebe] let you know don't move a muscle you'll just make it worse and that could be a hard place to be[Unknown] if we are those people right that's okay the biggest thing to do is to know that about ourselves[Phoebe] if I have a tendency to do the same thing over and over again the minute I realize[Phoebe] have a tendency and step back a little bit and have some self awareness and say wow you know what[Phoebe] every time I get one this platform and see all of my friends going and dressed up in whatever[Phoebe] I feel bad in some way hmm that doesn't seem to be serving me and from that badness I waste a[Phoebe] Sunday afternoon on the couch to get nothing done and feel terrible about myself gee maybe I need to[Phoebe] back up and choose something different just being able to pull yourself up and go hey I notice[Phoebe] maybe this is enough for our brain to kind of disconnect from us and be a little bit more of a[Phoebe] watcher and a little bit less of a doer and from that place we can actually change it's like well[Phoebe] I don't think this is serving me and you know what I'm not gonna pick up my phone Sunday mornings[Phoebe] anymore first thing because that's what everybody's post in their Saturday night fun and that[Unknown] always gets me around up so instead on Sunday mornings I'm gonna choose to have coffee with a friend[Phoebe] go for a hike meditate go to a yoga class read whatever but it's not gonna be the same thing that[Unknown] keeps me stuck hey there podcast listeners you've been tuning into our episodes but if you[Guest] ever wondered about the steamy details of our adventures or maybe hungry for some sultry erotic[Ed] stories well guess what we've got something special just for you our exclusive patreon page[Ed] it's like a VIP pass to the saucy or side of our world so if you're ready for an exclusive[Guest] behind the mic experience head over to our patreon page now trust us this is where the magic[Unknown] happens see you there patrons yeah and it sounds like this is also something that we can kind of[Guest] train ourselves to do right that that whole fake it to you make it so if you do tend to be one of[Guest] those people that freezes and you you have this realization then you can start to say well I'm[Guest] gonna take an action instead like you said you know put the phone down don't do that so this is[Guest] something I think that we can train ourselves out of and which just like no I'm recognizing this[Guest] and now I'm going to to to take a different action that's great I like that I was I was also[Ed] thinking about you were talking in it triggered a thought in my head about when people some we've[Ed] seen a lot of friends get in the lifestyle and they never heard that term where your your fast[Ed] friends and you you just you you do everything together all the time to talk every day to the[Ed] and you just like burn out like your fast friends and you just you just burn the friendship out[Ed] because it was so fast so hot we've seen a lot of our friends do that where they're at every event[Ed] like every week like Wednesday every weekend and then it just keeps they keep amping it up and[Ed] amping it up and all of a sudden they're vanilla hunting and they're like you know having a yoga[Ed] a vanilla yoga teacher over to their house and all of a sudden she you know there's a three[Guest] some and like like it's just like these are very specific examples and then and then all of a[Ed] sudden they're gone they just disappear and you're like well what happened to them they're like[Unknown] gone it's like this this burnout how do you how do you it's like I feel like it's a drug[Ed] and you know where people just get addictive to that energy and then it's just done and I[Unknown] I have a great amount of sadness over that because we've seen so many friends do that and then[Ed] they they don't want to have anything to do with with anybody in a lifestyle and even though I[Ed] say oh my gosh we could still go to dinner we're not gonna like hit on you or you know we're still[Ed] friends with you and they're like no no we can't we're and it's it's it's always a morning[Ed] process for me because I I miss them and I want to be their friend but they've they've stopped so[Ed] how do you like slow down or I don't know I guess it's like a drug you don't know you're[Unknown] any advice well I will say for the people who are going really fast and if they have someone[Phoebe] caring enough to say you know gee you seem to be amping this up and amping this up and amping this[Phoebe] up you know I think that that's sort of like getting a brand new sports car and seeing how fast[Phoebe] you can drive how often you can drive how some dangerously you can drive the brain does like[Unknown] that amp up amp up but there comes a place where a lot of times that earning so fast and so hot[Phoebe] burns us and so I think then what happens is that when it burns us we don't want anything to do[Phoebe] with it anymore you know I've wrecked the sports cars from the cell and I'm never gonna get[Phoebe] another one because I have now have kind of carved this part into my brain that says this activity[Phoebe] equals perfect danger and so if someone could wisely say to them hey there's a chance that you[Unknown] were going to end up somewhere that you've amped up and amped up because also you're probably[Phoebe] amped up risk and you're amping up you know maybe affection or maybe if raving of other people's[Phoebe] affections and emotions you're taking a lot more chances with people right things or with your[Phoebe] money and so again if that goes badly it may leave a sour taste for your mouth and support[Phoebe] experience and I hate to see that happen to something yeah um they can be really great for you[Phoebe] that's one thing I think for you Phoebe it's just about allowing yourself to be sad and saying hey[Phoebe] these other people chose a path that ended in a place where they could no longer you know be in[Phoebe] this environment and that really makes me sad and to just grieve that and feel you know the hardness[Phoebe] of losing friendships but then using that grief to let you be grateful and love all the people[Unknown] that are still around and have not burned out in that blaze of glory so um it's just you know[Unknown] the compassion for you to say yeah this sucks and it's okay to feel bad and sad that we don't[Unknown] get to see these people anymore and then again what we've been talking about this whole time how do I[Phoebe] do use that for what I can do oh I can still reach up to people who do take my calls and want to[Unknown] have dinner and and you know I can maybe mentor someone I see that younger and open to it that[Phoebe] does seem to be going a little quicker and share some historical stories of others who this[Phoebe] is ended poorly with just to give them some perspective not to control them and you know we never[Phoebe] have any hope about the outcome we just can give hope that maybe they'll listen and it'll go[Unknown] differently for them right right yeah oh yeah I hate I hate losing friends it's a head and it's[Guest] I get very attached to them you have anything else my love um but this last one which was the[Ed] the self-judgment component um yeah we we kind of read that we kind of covered it but um the[Unknown] Kel maybe you could do a little wrap up on um maybe just honoring um that we want[Ed] different things and it kind of goes back to that negotiation that I think you were talking[Ed] about earlier and then you know of course honoring our preferences and loving loving the change[Ed] right we get so used to um for like yeah I'm in the groove now things are going good cha cha cha[Ed] and then something happens you're like and you're like what and a lot of people are like oh[Ed] they get frustrated because they're like no I want it to be the same and then how do you honor[Ed] that part and just go you know it's it's okay it's it's a change we can work with this it's going[Ed] to be a little awkward it's going to be a little uncomfortable but it it'll be fine and how do[Phoebe] have any other tips on how people I first I want to say you said that beautifully I mean it is about[Unknown] this self-talk of and I think anytime something changes anytime we have to show up and negotiate[Phoebe] something you know if we can do it from a place of self-compassion you know no change that isn't[Phoebe] and Kristen Neff is the queen of self-compassion and she's written books about it and really[Phoebe] has an amazing take on it but she says no change ever happens and sticks and we have peace with it[Phoebe] if it doesn't come from a place of compassion for ourselves so we think oh I'll just kind of bully[Phoebe] myself and to going to things I don't want to go to or I'll just you know talk to myself like come[Phoebe] on you get up off the couch where are you being so this and this that never works and so what[Phoebe] does work is seeing ourselves as people who feel different feelings and have different experiences[Phoebe] and what need different things and then allowing that to be and honoring that by cheering with others[Phoebe] negotiating with our partners and good faith saying hey here's my honest truth I want to hear[Phoebe] your honest truth I want to be able to understand that and have compassion for you and compassion[Phoebe] for me and move forward same thing with friendships you know to be able to show up and have[Phoebe] compassion and honor what people are choosing but then to not feel that that means something[Unknown] wrong with us if we want something different it just means we're just people and all people are[Phoebe] different so I think the biggest complete place that we can really help ourselves is through compassion[Unknown] and if we can just give ourselves grace you know oh I feel a ton of FOMO that's okay[Phoebe] everybody feels that sometimes it's all right to feel sad and scared and worried and is there[Phoebe] anything here for us to do and if so let's think about it let's do it um I think that's the[Phoebe] starting point for all of the that self-judgment and all those places yeah yeah I like that it kind of[Guest] takes us full circle with the whole why question and not compromising but coming to that[Guest] place of consensus where everybody's kind of found a nice happy place to kind of be[Ed] yeah that's so I I um I've used some some self-talk a lot lately just when I had a friend that says[Unknown] oh I never experienced FOMO and I'm like what I'm like how is that actually possible[Ed] which of course then triggered me even more and I'm like oh crying out loud like I'm like well[Ed] then what's wrong with me like why do I expect right of course you know you're just like[Ed] and you're like okay stop it stop it you know and then relaxing doing the deep dive[Ed] and then recalibrating figuring it out and um of course loving the process because I'm different[Ed] than other people but still it bugs me still you can tell yeah but we have figured it out we figured[Ed] out um what's working for us now and it's it's different um but I like it and our focus is more[Ed] on the community and and travel and those connections with individuals so yeah yeah yeah all right[Ed] well I think this was an excellent episode um and I really want everyone to know about[Ed] all the amazing classes courses retreats events etc etc etc that expensive connection[Ed] has going on this year where to find your socials all that good stuff because you guys are[Phoebe] a wealth of knowledge and a great resource thank you we can find us on our website first of all[Phoebe] is expansiveconnection.com slash ENM so that's our fun spicy um where you can find all our offerings[Phoebe] so everything I'm gonna talk about is right there when you go onto that website you'll find it[Phoebe] under offerings we're also only on Instagram it's expansive.connection.coaching so we have an[Phoebe] Instagram page that also has a lot of our information as well as some resources that we send out[Phoebe] for people to find what we're listening to or reading as coaches um so then we have going on[Phoebe] as retreats we have been really finding that being in person with people and groups is really[Phoebe] beneficial for them they love it we love it it just feels like a calling that we're really kind[Phoebe] of stepping up and meeting and so um we just finished our first couples retreat it was actually[Phoebe] um last weekend and Katherine and I led that with 10 amazing actually 11 amazing couples[Phoebe] and it was incredible and so we're already planning uh like fall date it's gonna be somewhere in[Phoebe] the mountains and a um February date that's gonna be somewhere on the beach along the Gulf of Mexico[Phoebe] so pay attention to those they're gonna be coming soon. Katherine is also co-hosting two[Phoebe] women's retreats in the fall one is called women of the lifestyle and it's October 9 through 12th[Phoebe] and another one is wild and wise thriving through minipoles and it's for women who are[Phoebe] somewhere in the scope of minipausal life and it is November 13 through 16th and both of those[Phoebe] are gonna be located in the spooky mountains of Tennessee so you can find information about those[Phoebe] we also are really excited that we are starting a pure lead men's group um is gonna be[Phoebe] meaning twice a month and this is gonna be called masculinity matters and it is going to be a really[Phoebe] great place for men to come and have discussions about all kinds of things together um it's[Phoebe] gonna be led by men with men we're really really excited about these groups and we think there's[Phoebe] something that's really needed and so just have support to have companionship to have you know[Phoebe] some guys that you can really lean on and talk about the hard things with and so we're gonna have[Unknown] those starting up sometime in May so if you're interested in those you'll be able to find out[Phoebe] about those and we are educators really before we're anything else so we are always having workshops[Phoebe] we're always trying to do something where we teach people you know they can spend less than a quarter[Phoebe] of an hour time with us but they can get a whole 90 minutes worth of freight information that[Phoebe] they can watch over and over so we are gonna have a three-part sexual health workshop this summer[Phoebe] um it's gonna be a part for men a part for women and a part for everyone and that's gonna be[Phoebe] really exciting so that's coming and then we'll have more workshops in the fall because[Phoebe] one of us will get an inch to teach something and we'll just throw our workshop together and[Phoebe] offer it to people so we're really excited about a lot of the things we have going on[Guest] very very cool lots of lots of exciting learning opportunities for everybody absolutely more[Unknown] resources than podcasts that we're trying to do for people yeah not the podcasts are wonderful[Phoebe] but it's nice to be then we have more than just you know getting on and listening to the[Phoebe] podcast we used to have five six seven years ago it's nice to have options for people to really[Guest] lean in on community yes yes yes yes yeah podcasts are very one way you get to hear us and you know[Guest] what we're talking about and as an audience member you can't go but but but but I have this question[Guest] and that's really tricky which is a great segue to our conclusion but before we do that[Guest] we want to thank you for being on this episode with us we've got a couple other episodes planned[Guest] with the other members of your group to continue this kind of deep journey into[Guest] all things self-help yeah and and and how to have those great dialogues with yourself and with a[Guest] with a counselor or a coach to be able to evolve as individuals yeah yes absolutely and together[Phoebe] and together yeah yeah thank you both so much for having us and me here we really really[Phoebe] appreciate your work and the community and really are honored to to get to chat with you about[Phoebe] these things that really do matter and all face and thank you so much well thank you thank you[Guest] for for being here thank you thanks for tuning in we appreciate you joining our community don't[Guest] forget your homework tell a friend about our show and if you'd like leave a review and a comment[Guest] because all of that engagement helps our videos to grow and our channel to grow so that more people[Guest] can see them you can also leave us a voice mail at 916-538-0482 or you can contact us at[Guest] swingeruniversity.com you can even leave us a 90 second message anonymously on our website[Unknown] and as we like to say keep learning keep growing and keep it sexy oh one last thing before you go[Guest] if this episode helped you in any way the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving[Guest] a rating and review it takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for[Unknown] relationship education and we've made it easy visit swingeruniversity.com forward slash review[Guest] all the instructions are there thank you for being part of this community we'll see you again soon