Top Signs You Might Be With the Wrong Couple!

Ever wondered what red flags you should watch for in the swinging lifestyle? In this episode of Swinger University, Ed and Phoebe dive deep into real-life stories of dates gone wrong, rude behavior, mismatched expectations, and questionable consent. From couples who show a totally different side on a second date, to partners who don’t seem on the same page, we share the signs that made us question, “Is this really the couple for us?”

✨ In this episode, you'll hear about:

• A disastrous dinner date with an incredibly rude couple (seriously, who sends food back over a heating lamp?!)
• Stories of awkward power dynamics where one partner speaks for the other
• Consent concerns in situations where one person seems uncomfortable
• The challenge of navigating mixed signals, unreciprocated flirting, and introvert/extrovert mismatches
• Tips on spotting red flags before you end up in an uncomfortable or unsafe situation

We want you to enjoy the lifestyle safely, confidently, and drama-free! This episode is perfect for swinger newbies, experienced lifestylers, or anyone curious about navigating ethical non-monogamy and consensual swinging with respect.

🔔 Don’t forget to Subscribe to Swinger University for more lifestyle tips, real stories, and candid conversations about the swinging lifestyle, open relationships, ethical non-monogamy, and adult community events.

Transcript

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[Ed] Have you ever been out on a date and had something happen that made you question whether[Ed] you were with the right couple?[Ed] Maybe they said something or did something that you didn't quite like or made you unsure[Ed] of where they stood.[Ed] We're going to get into all of that today and talk about red flags in the lifestyle.[Ed] Welcome to Swinger University.[Ed] I'm Ed.[Ed] And I'm Phoebe.[Ed] If you were inspired to bring this topic forward, something that's been in our backlog[Ed] and we've talked about red flags before, but there was a social media post recently[Ed] that really resonated with us from Kate at Wanderlust Swingers.[Ed] So we thought we'd kind of add our little bit about it and tell you some stories about[Ed] things that had happened to us and kind of give you some insight into our experiences.[Ed] So let's start off with our story.[Ed] A while back, we'd met a couple at a Halloween hotel takeover.[Ed] They were very nice.[Ed] They were a sexy couple and we said, we want to get to know them a little bit better.[Ed] So we'd connected with them before the New Year's event and decided to have a little[Ed] pre-party dinner and met them at a local restaurant.[Unknown] Yes.[Phoebe] Sounds really great, right?[Phoebe] I mean, it all sounds wonderful.[Phoebe] What's the big deal?[Unknown] This happens all the time with people.[Phoebe] So keep going with this story because I'm curious on your take on how you tell the story.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] So we show up at the restaurant and we're, I think they showed up on time.[Ed] No, they were late.[Phoebe] They were late.[Ed] They were late.[Phoebe] They were first red flag.[Unknown] Ding ding.[Ed] We were seated and eventually they did show up and we sent them a message to let them[Ed] know that we'd already been seated.[Phoebe] And they were really late, like a good half hour, I believe.[Phoebe] And I, at this point, was thinking they're not going to show up.[Phoebe] Good grief.[Phoebe] We need to order and just get on because the evening, there's timing involved, right?[Unknown] You need to go back, get changed, prepare, there's pre-parties and then the party of the[Phoebe] evening.[Unknown] So, you know, time is of the essence.[Unknown] Chop chop.[Unknown] More fun to be had.[Ed] All right.[Unknown] So there we are.[Ed] We're sitting in this, the middle of this restaurant and we'd, I think we'd order drinks[Ed] but we hadn't ordered dinner.[Ed] No, we did.[Ed] We'd already ordered dinner.[Ed] Like we were like, oh, we did.[Ed] Oh, we did.[Ed] This is not going to happen.[Ed] Yes.[Ed] We just assumed they weren't going to show up.[Unknown] Right.[Ed] So we'd ordered our meals and the waitress was very accommodating, and of course, she said,[Unknown] oh, you have two people who were showing up, etc., etc., our dinner arrives then the[Ed] couple shows up.[Unknown] Yeah.[Phoebe] So now that's awkward and strange because we're like, wow, we didn't think[Phoebe] you're going to show up.[Phoebe] We didn't say that, but that was the, the thought in my head and probably very prevalent on[Phoebe] my face.[Phoebe] And now they're sitting there watching us eat.[Phoebe] That's awkward.[Phoebe] So our food is getting cold while we're trying to have conversation and not eat to write[Phoebe] much of our meal because their meal is supposed to be coming.[Phoebe] All right.[Unknown] Anyway.[Phoebe] I'm already getting frustrated.[Ed] Yeah.[Unknown] And they sit down.[Ed] And of course, they order, but they're, they're a little short with the waitress at this[Ed] point.[Phoebe] They're very short with her.[Phoebe] They take a while to pick and choose what they want.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] So they, they'd order some special things off the menu, but they had a lot of questions[Ed] about it.[Ed] And that's not unusual.[Ed] I mean, everybody's got different dietary requirements.[Ed] So it kind of makes sense that they're being a little specific about what they want[Ed] and whether it's going to work or not.[Ed] Anyway, they order and the food arrives.[Ed] So they're sitting with the food and looking at it.[Unknown] And the first question that she asked was, was this under a heating lamp who asks that?[Unknown] They did.[Phoebe] Apparently.[Phoebe] I've never heard this question.[Phoebe] So I'm shocked.[Phoebe] And now, now it's starting to build, right?[Phoebe] Because they're late.[Phoebe] We've moved forward.[Phoebe] Our dinner's getting cold.[Phoebe] We're trying to be accommodating.[Unknown] They're having all these questions and considerations.[Phoebe] And the, the, the server is speechless.[Unknown] She's like, she was taking a bag.[Phoebe] She was like, yeah, well, I think I could go check, but we do have heating lamps up[Phoebe] there.[Unknown] So most likely, it could have been, and she says, what the, the woman who, who asked[Phoebe] that question, what did she say?[Ed] Well, if it's been under a heating lamp, then it has to go back to the kitchen because[Ed] this is never supposed to be under a heating lamp.[Phoebe] Awkward silence.[Unknown] Like, what do you, okay, I mean, we're not at a five-star restaurant.[Ed] No, I mean, this is a very nice restaurant.[Phoebe] Yeah, probably a three-four-star, maybe.[Ed] I don't know.[Phoebe] It's, it wasn't cheap in the mall.[Phoebe] Well, I make it sound, I make it sound cheap by being in a mall, it's a, it's a, it's[Phoebe] a pillar.[Ed] There's wood pant, you know, like really nice wood interior.[Ed] People dress up for this.[Phoebe] Yeah, this is a nice, nice restaurant.[Ed] It's a very nice restaurant, but it's not Ruth Chris.[Ed] It's not, you know, a $500 meal.[Ed] This is not at the four seasons.[Unknown] Right.[Ed] But it's a nice restaurant.[Ed] It's a nice restaurant.[Ed] It's a very nice restaurant.[Unknown] The stuff.[Phoebe] So now the food goes back.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] And now there's more awkward conversation, which was throwing me off because we'd had such[Phoebe] great conversation before at a, okay, like, you know, like a two-star, what hotel diner[Phoebe] where the, the diner was just on its last legs needed to be poorly redecorated and the[Phoebe] food was crap and they were fun and had no issue with the food there.[Ed] So right.[Ed] It was the hotel denies.[Ed] It wasn't a dance.[Ed] Right.[Phoebe] Equivalent of that.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] So we're like, wow, where did this, who's this couple?[Unknown] Where did that come from when you were okay with denies, but now you're not okay with,[Phoebe] yeah, I'm confused.[Ed] It was very incongruous with who we'd connected with before.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] Which, which is a red flag for us because here it is.[Ed] We've gone through the whole, you know, song and dance of like getting to know a couple[Ed] and then you have a second interaction with them and it's not the same couple.[Guest] Like, this is Desaro behavior.[Unknown] Like you think this is the whole, right?[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] This is that whole conversation that people have with us about people.[Phoebe] We find some people just aren't genuine and we're like, what do you mean?[Phoebe] Well, this, like, right, what explains that maybe they weren't genuine before or they[Phoebe] are now, the real, the real faces are coming out now and it was before it was just an acting[Phoebe] job.[Unknown] Who knows?[Phoebe] It was puzzling.[Phoebe] So we've never, honestly, I've never encountered this in anywhere of my life, whether it's swinging[Phoebe] or vanilla.[Unknown] So it was quite shocking to me.[Phoebe] Okay.[Phoebe] Dinner comes, second dinner comes, right?[Phoebe] And the waitress was apologizing.[Unknown] She said it wasn't under the heat lamp and I'm at this point mouthing, I'm sorry to the[Phoebe] waitress because she just looks really distraught.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] And she's young and she just looked like she's about to cry.[Phoebe] So now I feel bad for the waitress.[Unknown] All right.[Ed] We need your help so that your community, the very one you love and have so much fun[Ed] with can also find our show.[Ed] Here's a really easy way to do that.[Ed] If you're listening on Apple podcasts or Spotify, hit that follow button and leave us[Unknown] a rating.[Ed] If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe and turn on notifications.[Ed] We can't emphasize enough how much this helps the swing our community and it truly is[Ed] up to you to make that happen.[Ed] It makes a massive difference in whether new listeners can even find us.[Ed] And here's the thing, when someone searches Swinger podcast, the algorithm doesn't care[Ed] how good our content is or how long we've been around.[Ed] It only cares about ratings and reviews.[Ed] We'd appreciate it and your community will really appreciate it.[Unknown] Thanks for listening.[Ed] And it was worse than that because it wasn't just this whole sending the meal back and[Ed] her having to bring it out.[Ed] Like that, you could kind of go, that's somewhat normal.[Ed] Maybe it was something off.[Ed] Maybe it was spicy.[Ed] Maybe they included the mushrooms in the dish and the person had said, I don't want mushrooms.[Ed] They actually started getting rude and snippy with her and very, very dismissive with her.[Ed] And that's when we started kind of apologizing for what was going on and we felt very uncomfortable[Ed] sitting there.[Phoebe] This is where I start racking up how much tip she's going to get at the end of the meal[Phoebe] to compensate for their poor behavior because I'm like, oh my god, this poor woman.[Unknown] Right.[Ed] And so now this couple who we were trying to connect with and build even better relationship[Ed] with them, now we're thinking in the back of our heads, holy crap, they're going to[Ed] cost us more money because we're going to have to like overtip this waitress or girl[Unknown] to make up for their poor behavior, right?[Unknown] It was, it was really yeah, disturbing.[Phoebe] Yes.[Phoebe] And then so the meal comes and they don't even eat, they picked at it, they spent, I[Phoebe] don't know, $30, $40 on each of their plates and they just picked like she didn't even[Phoebe] eat.[Unknown] The one, the woman who was the biggest complainer, right, was just picking at it.[Unknown] Yeah.[Phoebe] So we were really, really confused, I wished I was sitting on the outside because it was[Phoebe] a booth.[Phoebe] If we had been sitting in chairs and a table, I would have got my ass up and left.[Phoebe] Yes, I know a lot of people are saying, oh my god, you should have just kicked them out[Unknown] of the booth and left anyway, but yeah, I didn't want to create a scene.[Phoebe] It was a busy restaurant.[Phoebe] It's a nice place.[Phoebe] I'm not, I don't know, wasn't interested in having all eyes on me.[Ed] Well, and here's the thing, do you, do you add insult to injury?[Ed] Do you continue to escalate it?[Ed] Right.[Ed] Just kind of let it go and then sort it out later and run as fast as you can once you[Phoebe] get away.[Phoebe] Oh my god.[Phoebe] So the check comes, we overtip, we may have walked up to the waitress and said, I apologize.[Phoebe] And once we left the restaurant, we steered clear of them the rest of the night.[Phoebe] And god, it was a massive party and easy to get lost because I didn't want to see them[Phoebe] ever again.[Unknown] And ironically, we've never seen, no, that's not true.[Unknown] We did see, we ran into her at a house party and her behavior was the same.[Phoebe] She sat in a corner while some other single guy came up and gave her food, brought her[Phoebe] food to her table and she had this whole look down her nose and everybody.[Ed] Yeah, she, she was, we described it at the time as she was holding court.[Unknown] Yes.[Unknown] Which was very strange.[Unknown] This was a small house party like this was not something super lavish, et cetera, et cetera,[Ed] et cetera, et cetera.[Phoebe] And the food was, you know, mac and cheese and spam and, you know, something like elaborate.[Phoebe] But maybe she just didn't want to be seen at the table because it was beneath her.[Phoebe] Who knows?[Phoebe] It was so weird.[Phoebe] Oh my gosh, anyway, red flag.[Ed] Lots of red flags with that particular one.[Ed] So needless to say, we wrote them off like we haven't engaged them since then and and[Unknown] they're gone.[Unknown] Thank goodness.[Unknown] One of the other things that we've seen happen with couples is one of them is very quiet.[Unknown] Yeah.[Phoebe] It's not just one is an introvert, one is an extrovert.[Phoebe] It goes beyond that.[Ed] So we've met a number of couples in the lifestyle.[Unknown] It's not really common, but it happens often enough where you should be aware of this happening.[Ed] And that's that the wife doesn't do any talking at all.[Ed] And the husband basically answers for her.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Unknown] That's creepy.[Phoebe] Well, I shouldn't say that because it could be a dom sub relationship, but they haven't[Phoebe] come forward and informed us that that's the role that they're displaying that evening.[Phoebe] So we have sort of run into that early on where we weren't allowed to talk to her.[Phoebe] You could only talk to him, but we figured that out years later and we didn't understand[Phoebe] what was going on there.[Ed] Right.[Ed] I think that was one of our first parties ever when that happened.[Phoebe] Yeah, it could be, but it may also not be knowing what I know now.[Phoebe] If I run into that again, that would be the first question that I ask.[Phoebe] Are you in a dom sub relationship?[Phoebe] If they don't disclose that, I can ask that.[Phoebe] If they say no, then I know, for sure, red flag.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] And the thing that's kind of weird for us is it really starts to bring up questions of[Ed] consent.[Ed] Like, are they on the same page?[Ed] Are they telling the same story?[Ed] And the body language there is, they're not on the same page.[Ed] That the wife's kind of going along with it or the husband's like, we're calling out[Ed] the misses at this point, but it doesn't have to be that way.[Unknown] It could also be the husband, although it tends to be the wife that's in this situation.[Ed] Another interesting situation that's similar to this is where the couples are, it appears[Ed] that they're on different pages.[Ed] So the husband seems super gung ho and all on board, but then you'll have one of those[Ed] bathroom conversations with the wife and something will come up that kind of pricks[Ed] up your ears.[Phoebe] Mm-hmm.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Phoebe] They present well and it seems like they're there with the same purpose.[Phoebe] They're on the same page.[Phoebe] Like you said, you have this conversation with the husband, the all thumbs up.[Phoebe] I go to the bathroom and she's hesitant.[Unknown] There's something, as you said, pricks my ears and I go, hmm, they are not on the same[Phoebe] page.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] So this is a no-go.[Phoebe] The last story we have is when the husband orders the wife around.[Phoebe] Oh my gosh, we were at this party.[Phoebe] It was so disturbing.[Unknown] I'm going to call him cowboy because he's wearing a cowboy hat.[Phoebe] And he, he was talking really fast.[Phoebe] He was tearing it.[Phoebe] His wife's closed.[Phoebe] He's like, honey, honey, you need to show more tit.[Phoebe] And so he's like tugging at her, at her blouse.[Phoebe] He's trying to like kind of pull the buttons open instead of just gently unbuttning her[Unknown] blouse, which, which there was no consent there.[Phoebe] And he wasn't doing it in a nice, even asking it a nice way.[Phoebe] He's tugging at her blouse and I'm like, right, right.[Phoebe] I'm like, well, that's rude.[Phoebe] Why are you, you're, you're, you're demeaning your wife in front of us.[Unknown] That's not cool.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] It was, and it was almost worse than that at times because it was like junior high school[Ed] where, where the boys run up and like punch the girls because they like them.[Unknown] He was doing that kind of stuff with her, which was, it was really weird.[Ed] It was so disappointing because they were a hot couple.[Ed] Like they dressed nicely, they, they were sexy, for sure.[Ed] And we were, we were really into them.[Guest] Like, we're like, yeah, let's have a chat.[Unknown] Let's, let's make this happen.[Guest] Let's see where this goes.[Ed] Literally, we walked across the dance floor to go talk to them.[Ed] And as the conversation progressed, it was clear.[Ed] He was trying to peacock her in some way, right?[Ed] Like really push her forward and go, no, no, really, you want to, you want to connect[Ed] with us.[Ed] Here's my wife.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Phoebe] That was weird, awkward, strange, definitely a red flag.[Phoebe] Definitely a red flag.[Unknown] Yeah.[Unknown] Okay.[Phoebe] The, another thing that we've encountered, that's a red flag is unreciprocated flirting[Unknown] where one partner's standoffish, and it's either going to be the wife or the husband.[Phoebe] So it plays off of what we were talking about before, but the, the flirting isn't there.[Phoebe] So sometimes once again, it could be that they're, once an extrovert, once an introvert,[Phoebe] once not really great at flirting, could be that they've been in the lifestyle, not been[Phoebe] in the lifestyle very long, they've been married 30 years, they don't even know how to[Phoebe] flirt anymore.[Phoebe] I mean, that's kind of how I was.[Unknown] I mean, we hadn't been in a relationship for a long time when we first started swinging,[Phoebe] but I, I felt like I sucked at flirting.[Unknown] I had to really up my flirt game.[Guest] Here's why we sail on Virgin.[Guest] It's adults only.[Guest] No kids screaming at breakfast, no family buffet lines, just champagne at noon, late night[Guest] pool parties, and people who actually want to be there.[Unknown] The vibe?[Guest] Think boutique hotel that happens to float.[Guest] Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land.[Guest] Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's[Guest] just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous.[Unknown] No wonder bread cruisers here, just your people.[Ed] I wouldn't say you were bad at it, but yes, I, I think you were uncomfortable with it.[Ed] I was uncomfortable with it.[Unknown] You were really good at it.[Ed] I like flirting.[Ed] I'm a big flirt.[Unknown] Why I was uncomfortable with it was because in the past, flirting got a lot of unwanted[Phoebe] attention when I just was trying to flirt.[Phoebe] It wasn't, it went from zero to a hundred.[Phoebe] I would be a good listener or I'd give some flirty eyes or a little shrug of a shoulder[Unknown] or something, shift my pose, right, the things that we do when we flirt, bat, bat the[Phoebe] eyes, like I said, and all of a sudden that meant I want to go to bed with you.[Phoebe] I'm like, no, like, wait, we were having a really nice conversation here.[Phoebe] And so men actually trained me not to flirt because they went so far with it.[Phoebe] I didn't know what to do with that, right, because now we're way down the road.[Phoebe] And I, I'm still back here at stop sign.[Ed] Yeah, guys tend to go with it and they get the slightest green light and they're just[Ed] going to, they're just going to go in for it.[Ed] So I get that.[Ed] This one's very similar to the previous examples that we were giving where you're getting[Ed] mixed signals and some of its nerves, some of its just not being ready, some of that[Ed] sense.[Ed] The husband's maybe had a little bit more to drink than the wife.[Ed] I've definitely been in that situation before where my, my flirt gets extra when I, when[Ed] I drink a little bit, I start writing a lot of checks.[Ed] But it can be other things too.[Ed] It could just be that one of them is tired.[Ed] They had a long week and, and so you kind of have to give them a little bit of, yeah.[Unknown] Maybe it's not a red flag yet, but watch for this as a pattern, like every time you[Unknown] get together with them, if it seems to be the same, that could very well be the red flag.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] If you're, if you're really looking for that, a stronger connection, you really want to[Unknown] know them well, take, take the time, don't have sex with them that night, you know, meet[Phoebe] them again.[Phoebe] And if the pattern still exists, then that may be the red flag.[Ed] Right.[Unknown] Right.[Ed] The, the big red flag with this, not being on the same page absolutely has to come down[Ed] to.[Ed] And I would say this is the quintessential drama that happens that everybody talks about,[Ed] you know, the, the no drama couple.[Ed] And that's that the partners are actually having a fight.[Ed] Now we haven't seen that very much.[Ed] Yeah.[Unknown] A couple times.[Ed] And to be honest, the, the one time we saw it was the husband was like chasing women around[Ed] and was, we found out later it was actually cheating on his wife.[Ed] So I get why they were fighting.[Ed] That makes a whole lot of sense.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] People are pretty good at parties.[Phoebe] They, if they need to have a conversation, they step to the side, they go to the bathroom,[Phoebe] they go to a bedroom, close a door, have a conversation.[Unknown] Most people are, aren't, are nice.[Phoebe] They don't disrupt the whole party and become as practical.[Ed] And I would say if, if I saw a couple that was clearly having some kind of a disconnect[Ed] and they did remove themselves from the situation and went off to a quiet place, in my mind,[Ed] that is not drama.[Ed] Correct.[Ed] Anything, that's a sign of emotional maturity, relationship maturity, they are taking the[Ed] higher road and not inflicting their, whatever issue it was on everybody else and not disturbing[Unknown] the party.[Ed] Like they're just going to go take care of it and handle it on their own.[Ed] That, that to me, that's actually a green flag like that's, you know, good couple.[Unknown] Now I might not go approach them that night, but it would definitely be one of those things[Ed] where if they came back and they approached us, who knows?[Ed] Maybe they were having a conversation about, well, do you want to really hook up with[Ed] that couple?[Ed] Right.[Ed] Yeah, maybe.[Ed] I know.[Unknown] Okay.[Unknown] Yeah, let's do it.[Phoebe] Now, experience and confidence plays into it, nerves.[Phoebe] If someone's talking too much, they can be a red flag because you, you may not, they[Phoebe] may be all in and may be all gas and maybe not be listening or as accommodating.[Phoebe] So that could be a red flag, comfort levels and their play style basically is going to[Phoebe] shift a little bit with experience and confidence.[Ed] And I think with the kind of talking over you and your conversation and really being[Ed] overly vocal can be a red flag in terms of compatibility.[Ed] So if they have a hard time socializing or it's really awkward conversation with them, it's[Ed] not necessarily that they're a bad couple, but they may not be a good match for you because[Ed] your conversation style doesn't pair up very well and you don't feel like you're compatible[Ed] where that also comes into play and this may be not a red flag, but maybe an orange flag[Ed] like caution and that's their play style is not what you're looking for.[Ed] And I view that more as just an incompatibility and not necessarily a red flag.[Ed] So they're, you know, soft and you're full and they're not interested in negotiating,[Ed] which I can understand going from soft to full, but maybe they're full and you're soft[Ed] and, you know, just being accommodating to play at that level.[Phoebe] So they're talking a lot and not really being a good listener and not asking those questions[Phoebe] not really wanting to engage with you and have that dialogue as to what type of experience[Unknown] you would like that evening, which basically comes down to consent.[Unknown] Yeah.[Phoebe] Right?[Phoebe] It's a consensual dialogue.[Phoebe] So if you're busy, the app and saying, you like this and we do this and we do that, we do[Unknown] it.[Phoebe] Well, what about me?[Phoebe] What do I like?[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] Did you ask me what I like?[Phoebe] Did you ask me what I preferred?[Phoebe] Right?[Phoebe] It's nice to be asked.[Ed] 100%.[Ed] And you can kind of look at this as once you get into the playroom and you're engaging with[Ed] this couple, if they haven't been paying attention to what you're saying and they start[Ed] doing things that are maybe pushing through your boundaries or just ignoring your boundaries,[Ed] that's 100% a red flag.[Unknown] Yeah.[Unknown] Yeah.[Unknown] And then get up and run.[Ed] Run.[Unknown] Yeah.[Unknown] Yeah.[Ed] I definitely think it's an opportunity to just say, hey, thanks, but we're going to go.[Ed] We'd had some boundaries and those got missed.[Ed] I mean, I might let them know, but for sure, you don't need to sit there and take that[Ed] for sure.[Unknown] Yeah.[Unknown] Back off.[Phoebe] And of course, if it's really egregious, then you definitely want to alert any room promoter[Phoebe] or room monitors and the promoter.[Phoebe] And then they'll get security and handle it from there.[Ed] Right.[Unknown] Especially if it's kind of crossed into that kind of rapy situation.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Unknown] Which is not good.[Phoebe] But we've never experienced that.[Ed] If not directly for sure, we've been at a party where a woman was overly aggressive and[Ed] doing things with the male partner from another couple that we knew.[Ed] Oh, yeah.[Phoebe] And honestly, I categorized that as sexual assault, which she did.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] She really did.[Ed] It really was not consensual.[Phoebe] And they to several guys, the several guys, at least two, possibly three.[Phoebe] I know two for sure have reported to us.[Ed] Yeah.[Phoebe] And they were really uncomfortable with it and won't be going back to that house party.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] That's actually a different example.[Ed] Okay.[Ed] So we have two examples of that.[Ed] We've got it.[Ed] But yes, the one I was thinking of, there was a couple where the woman was on top and[Ed] she just kind of went full swap with the husband and they were not a full swap couple.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] She grabbed his penis, shoved it in, and yeah.[Ed] And they were both very upset by that and ended up having to leave the party.[Unknown] And I don't think we saw them again until the next party, but we'd had some conversations[Ed] with them.[Ed] We reached out to them directly because we'd heard from the host that that had happened.[Phoebe] And they were, we knew them.[Ed] And we wanted to offer some sympathy and an opportunity to talk to us about it if they[Ed] wanted to.[Unknown] But yeah.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Ed] And then they flag for sure.[Phoebe] Red flag for sure.[Unknown] Then the other party, the two gentlemen had this woman at the house party, she just straight[Phoebe] up, went, walked up to the guy, opened his pants, pulled him down and stuck his cock in[Phoebe] her mouth.[Phoebe] Right.[Unknown] And they were shocked, like really upset.[Phoebe] And it was, it was very humbling to me to hear that from a man, to be able to disclose[Phoebe] that because, and I felt, I'm just kidding chills because I felt so horrible on two accounts.[Phoebe] And that that experience happened to them, two individual guys, basically the same thing.[Phoebe] And two, that I, as women we go, oh, you know, men, they all men like attention and all[Phoebe] men like, you know, they're happy just to, you know, you jokingly say, yeah, it's just[Ed] this thing is a bad blow job.[Phoebe] There's no such thing as a bad blow job.[Phoebe] I'll take anything.[Phoebe] Hand is a hand.[Phoebe] Right.[Ed] 20 bucks is 20 bucks.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] So you, you get this, this narrative stuck in your head.[Phoebe] And then when somebody actually says that, you're like, wow, you, you actually did not[Phoebe] like that.[Phoebe] That was offensive to you.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] You were really turned off by that and, and one of the guys just left, like right after[Phoebe] that, just left the party.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] And you start to have that realization that, that, you know, sometimes men have feelings[Phoebe] too.[Phoebe] And I know that we, we don't think that that, but we, we do is at least I as a woman,[Phoebe] I, I look to you as my rock, you're the foundation.[Phoebe] I get to go bouncy, bouncy all over the place, but I can always count on you to be there[Phoebe] for me, to ground me.[Unknown] And I don't know if other women feel that same way, but I, I do, I rely on you to be the[Phoebe] steady, the constant.[Phoebe] And so I just don't think, I don't think of men as not that emotions are weak.[Phoebe] But you, you, you, you know what I'm saying that you think men don't have emotions.[Phoebe] They can't be affected by that because any attention is good attention.[Phoebe] Well, no, that's not the case.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Unknown] And we, we understand that everybody has personal preferences.[Ed] Everybody's not going to be into it.[Ed] We've had this conversation with bisexuality for sure with women where it's like just because[Unknown] a woman's buy doesn't mean she wants every woman going down on her or that she wants[Phoebe] to go down on every woman or wants to make out with every woman on the massage table[Phoebe] with me.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] That was essentially sexual assault on me.[Phoebe] Yes.[Phoebe] I said three times I only want a massage, do not touch any part, any genitals.[Phoebe] And this woman was just her fingers, oh my God.[Phoebe] She was gropey fingers.[Phoebe] She was gropey, three times.[Phoebe] Right.[Phoebe] The first time it got close, I smacked her hand away.[Phoebe] Second time it got closer.[Phoebe] Third time she, she got like one digit in there and I was like, that's it.[Phoebe] I'm done.[Phoebe] And then she had the, the goal to go, well, I'm by you.[Phoebe] You're just so sexy.[Phoebe] I really want you.[Phoebe] Don't, don't you like it?[Unknown] Like, oh my God, bitch, I want to smack you right now.[Unknown] And then the husband was like, well, he was like encouraging her.[Unknown] He was like her, her biggest cheerleader for she's buy.[Phoebe] Well, okay, but that doesn't have anything to do with you sticking your fingers in me[Phoebe] without consent.[Unknown] Well, I mean, it goes back to the whole thing.[Ed] It's like, okay, your head are sexual, did that mean that any random dude can come up[Ed] and stick his fingers in?[Ed] Like, no, it doesn't work like that.[Ed] So why would it work the bisexuality?[Ed] So red flag, for sure, that is a red flag.[Phoebe] Good Lord.[Phoebe] Oh, man, the experience isn't bad.[Ed] Let's move out of rape for a second.[Ed] Let's move out of rape for a second.[Ed] Okay.[Ed] It's getting dark.[Unknown] It's getting really dark.[Ed] There's another thing that happens, and this has happened to us a few times, where couples[Ed] just can't commit or single males can't commit.[Ed] And we know there are a number of you who are watching this or listening to this who[Ed] can attest that the stereotype that single males are flaky gets perpetuated by this.[Ed] So you send out a date request, give them a couple dates, couple times, nothing.[Ed] They can't follow through, they can't commit, or they cancel at the last minute.[Phoebe] Yeah.[Phoebe] And this isn't me being the pursuer, they were the pursuer.[Phoebe] And then I respond.[Phoebe] So I get that maybe if you misread the room, if you're doing the hunting, so to speak,[Phoebe] if you're pursuing, then maybe you're like, wow, I guess you maybe wasn't that interested.[Phoebe] But when they step forward and you engage and you've got a sexy banter back and forth,[Phoebe] and you think, yeah, we're all in, we're all go.[Phoebe] We've got them dates on the calendar, all that.[Unknown] And then they go, stuff like, yeah.[Ed] Yeah.[Ed] And that's hard, right?[Ed] Because that really does hit you in the ego, where you were like, okay, we were on,[Ed] we were hot, and now we're not, what's going on?[Ed] It's all hot and heavy and poor, nothing.[Unknown] Right.[Phoebe] I know.[Unknown] That's been very disappointing for me, the single male, the hot and heavy exchange, because[Phoebe] I did like the texting, that was kind of fun, the little attention that you're getting.[Phoebe] Even though I'm not a big texture for getting to know people, but when I was engaging[Phoebe] as single male, I did, I did enjoy that.[Unknown] And then you get all worked up and then, like you said, yeah, I kind of get it.[Ed] There are reasons why people have changed their mind, who knows what's going on in their[Ed] relationship, et cetera, et cetera, but we always try to advise people that if there's[Ed] a reason for it, you explain it, you let the other couple off the hook, give them a clue[Ed] as to why maybe they're not interested anymore.[Ed] And when we talked about the approach and closing in that episode, this is similar to that.[Ed] And it gives the couple that's being rejected and opt out, right?[Ed] It gives them information so that they can move on and not feel like they're just being[Unknown] ignored or something.[Ed] So it's always good.[Ed] Just give somebody a little bit of information so they can move on, little closure.[Ed] So every bad experience you have in the lifestyle may not be a red flag, but there are certainly[Ed] a few things that should give you enough pause to consider whether you should pursue that[Ed] any further or turn around and run away as fast as you can.[Ed] So when you're evaluating these interactions with couples, take in mind their feelings,[Ed] maybe their overall mood, if you've had positive interactions with them before.[Ed] And we like to give couples at least a couple chances because first impressions, while[Ed] they're important, they're not the only indicator of how a couple is.[Ed] So give them a second chance.[Ed] Maybe even a third chance, depending on the situation, was it at a house party?[Ed] Was it too loud?[Ed] Maybe they just don't like the loud noise.[Ed] Maybe they need a little bit more engagement with you and they couldn't get that at that[Ed] party.[Ed] So give them a second chance, potentially.[Unknown] I agree.[Ed] Now there are certain things that we talked about where they're rude to wait staff and[Ed] overall just seem like maybe not good people.[Unknown] Those are red flags enough for me to go, I don't need to see that again.[Ed] I don't want to experience that again.[Unknown] Let's just cut our losses and move on.[Phoebe] Thanks for tuning in.[Phoebe] We appreciate you joining our community.[Phoebe] Don't forget to do your homework, tell a friend about our show and leave a review and[Phoebe] comment.[Phoebe] You can also leave us a voicemail at 916-538-0482 or contact us at university.com and we[Phoebe] have a cool new way for you to leave us a voicemail anonymously.[Unknown] Talk about that a little bit.[Ed] If you visit our website, soaringuniversity.com, on the contact page, there's a way for you[Ed] to leave a little voicemail for us.[Ed] We get the IO and it's all anonymous so we have no idea who you are unless you tell us.[Ed] You can leave a 90 second message and if you do, we will put it in the episode and we'll[Ed] talk about it.[Ed] Assuming it's something that's for the episode or something that you want us to talk about[Ed] if you're just sending us happy messages, we're happy to take those as well.[Ed] If you're watching us on YouTube, you can also now join our membership on YouTube and[Ed] there are extra perks there, just like we have on Patreon, so you get extra episodes,[Ed] you get behind the scenes content, you get early releases of our YouTube episode, so check[Ed] it out on our membership page.[Phoebe] As always, keep learning, keep growing and keep it sexy.[Unknown] Oh, one last thing before you go.[Ed] If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the[Ed] show is leaving a rating and review.[Ed] It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship[Unknown] education.[Unknown] And we've made it easy.[Ed] Visit SwingerUniversity.com forward slash review.[Unknown] All the instructions are there.[Ed] Thank you for being part of this community.[Ed] We'll see you again soon.