Breaking Stereotypes: Age, Body Type, and Preferences in the Swinger Community

Curious about what diversity really means in the swinger lifestyle? In this episode, Ed and Phoebe break down the surprising variety you’ll find—and why it’s not what you might expect.

• The wide range of body types, ages, and preferences within swinger communities
• Different styles of parties, play, and consent practices (including substance use and communication)
• How self-confidence, body image, and social dynamics mix at events
• Cultural differences (including American vs. European approaches to consent and intimacy)
• Why the lifestyle evolves for couples over time—plus common myths about drama, “body count,” and relationship risks

Ready to separate fact from fiction about diversity in swinging? Watch now!

Transcript

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[Ed] Hey folks, welcome to our live. This is a new for us. We're we're trying something different.[Ed] Today, we're going to be talking about diversity in the swinging lifestyle. So all kinds of fun[Ed] stuff about diversity of people, their interactions, ages, body types, the whole gamut. So if you're[Ed] interested in knowing about all the different things you can experience in the lifestyle,[Unknown] you may want to check this episode out. We're here. We're here. So this is our maiden voyage. Can[Phoebe] everyone see me? Yeah, they can they can see you. So please give us a little grace and definitely[Phoebe] give us some feedback as to what your user experience is and what you would like to see differently[Phoebe] as we go through this process and we're we're learning getting the wheels on the bike. So[Phoebe] yeah, I'm super excited. Do we want to just launch right into it like we usually do get down to[Ed] business? Yeah. Yeah, it does look like there's a little bit of a delay with your camera, which I[Ed] have to figure out. Not sure why it's delayed, but that'll be fun. So I'm like doing weird things.[Ed] Well, it's not the studio one, but yeah, on on your camera, it does look like it's delayed. I'm[Phoebe] not delayed, which is weird, but you are delayed. Hence the the very interesting issue with technology.[Phoebe] So when you podcast and you stream, you also apparently needed to agree in advanced electronics[Phoebe] and technology because it breaks to break all the time and software gets updated and new things[Phoebe] come out and the geeks that we are, we like to have the new things. So there's this constant learning[Ed] material that's associated with all of this. All good things. So are you fixing the delay or are we[Phoebe] going to launch into the topic? We can go straight into the topic. Or should we do a spark card?[Ed] We could do a spark card too. So we've got some ideas for different stuff. Let me let me switch that[Ed] off. Here we go. So one of the things we've thought of to kind of break the ice, not only for us,[Unknown] but for people at parties is to use spark cards. And there's a whole bunch of different companies[Unknown] that are making these tons like you can go on Amazon and find some great ones. In fact, that's where I[Unknown] got these. Yeah, break the ice. I like this one. And then and they don't have to be swingers specific.[Phoebe] No. In fact, the more normal they are, the more I like them because when you're meeting people,[Phoebe] you really want to get to know them. Know a little bit more about their personality. And usually[Phoebe] it's hard in in social situations to be like, hey, what kind of dick size like do you like? Like,[Unknown] I mean, you can't just launch go straight into that. Right. You need to like ease in. You don't[Phoebe] want to offend anybody. You need to warm up, you know, just like anything with, you know,[Phoebe] poor play and all that. So these cards were great. The other one. Excuse me while I've been down.[Unknown] I don't know. I'm happy with Phoebe Ben's down. Okay, I'm back. Honest ex embracing curiosity.[Ed] I'm not sure where I got these. Oh, this was from the movie. Pack, wasn't it? Oh, yes. We got[Phoebe] this from the you me and her you me and her movie that we were promoting. We didn't get to go to[Phoebe] the premiere because it wasn't in our area, but they did send us this at a bunch of other cool[Phoebe] charge keys. So we felt very bougie because we were like, oh, we got free stuff. We didn't get the[Phoebe] Rolex and the diamond bracelet that all the red carpet people get when they go to their movie[Phoebe] premieres. But we got this and a bunch of other cool stuff. Freeze free. And I got some gummies,[Phoebe] hemp gummies, which I said I will say I was present pleasantly surprised. They actually did[Phoebe] have an effect. So aside from that, okay, spark card. We're going to do this before we launch into[Phoebe] the topic. Yeah, yeah, pick a spark card. See how this goes. Pick one, anyone. Am I going to read it?[Unknown] I got to take one back. Got him afraid. All right, this is a fun one. How many people would you[Ed] sexually entertain at one time? So we went straight to we did. We went straight. So we should have[Phoebe] started with the break the ice ones, but we went right to the get to go. So because this is a[Phoebe] swing or podcast and we can get straight into the juicy thing. And I think I know you well enough.[Ed] I mean, well, but this is your question. You've got to answer this question, not me. I know,[Phoebe] but we know each other. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're not going to shock me at all. Physicist. Okay, wait,[Phoebe] what was it? How many people would you sexually entertain at one time? Oh, the more the better.[Ed] No, we talking like a house party sexually entertain or are we talking like group sex kind of[Phoebe] sexually entertain like all on the same bed? Yes, like the what's the the Roman Empire curtains[Ed] where there's beds everywhere. Yeah, the Roman orgy. Yeah, the Roman orgy. I love that. Okay,[Phoebe] it doesn't mean them the more the merrier the more the merrier because I like the puppy pile. Yeah,[Unknown] it is a lot of fun. We've practically been at a Roman orgy based on your description on one of the[Unknown] cruises. They had the red curtains. There were six beds. I think lined up and there were two couples[Unknown] per bed. So do the math. That was 12 people. We were all having fun. And the mind you there were[Phoebe] a lot of other beds around, but those were the beds that had all opened up their curtains in a row.[Ed] So we could see. Yes, this was just our section. Our just our just our section of beds.[Ed] And we drew a crowd. It was fabulous. Yeah, we had a good time. Yeah, blitzkers are great. Yeah.[Phoebe] And if you if you oh my gosh, if you guys haven't been on one, you really need to go even if you're[Phoebe] not a swinger and you're just swing or adjacent or you want to be around open-minded people. Oh,[Phoebe] absolutely. Have the freedom to be naked at the pool on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean.[Phoebe] Hello, do it. It's it's a blast. We've got all the cruises on our on our website on our travel[Phoebe] page. And you can book right through us. It's it's hands down a wonderful experience. I thought I'd[Phoebe] get a lot sick. I love adventure. I thought I'd feel trapped. Nope. I was pleasantly surprised. Yeah,[Phoebe] that I wasn't. Yeah. Plenty to do. And you just if you if you're motion sensitive,[Phoebe] you just get the patch from your doctor and it's good for 72 hours. Book your room in the middle of[Phoebe] the ship, middle horizontally and middle this way. Right, right. Because that's less movement.[Ed] Yeah, at the end of the ship, you kind of get this thing going on. And at the top and the bottom,[Phoebe] you kind of get this thing going on. But I was a whole lot of this going on. Okay. Yes.[Ed] If you are interested in booking a bliss cruise or or a virgin cruise, because we're also going[Ed] next year on two virgin cruises, one down to Mexico from LA and one to Alaska. I think that one's in[Ed] July. Then check out our website at swingervacation.net. And all of our vacations are up there.[Ed] We've got a cruise page. We've got resort pages. All of those are their regular prices.[Ed] They're not marked up in any way. We're just facilitating and we get a little bit of a[Ed] commission from it. So you actually help support the podcast by[Ed] signing up through us, which is super cool. Because you know, everybody needs a little help.[Unknown] And we certainly go be upset about getting help. Now give a little help to your friend.[Phoebe] All right. Are we launching into the topic now? Yeah. Let's go into the topic.[Phoebe] All right. We've done our little icebreaker. So diversity in swingers. Diversity in swingers.[Ed] Yeah. We've been in the lifestyle for 11 years plus now. We kind of lose track.[Ed] And we've pretty much seen, I think, every size, shape and sexual preference in the lifestyle.[Phoebe] It's pretty cool. Yeah. And we've also seen every preference, not just physical preference,[Phoebe] but preferences when it comes to how people play. Maybe their DTF and we'll go into details[Phoebe] about all that. Maybe they want a more intimate connection. Maybe they only want a three-way[Phoebe] connection. Maybe there's an age group or a kink that they want to explore.[Unknown] Some people only play with others because of the length, the length of their partnership.[Guest] So if they're a new couple, or they're just dating, they won't play with them.[Phoebe] Which I found very interesting. I didn't know that was a thing. And some people are very[Phoebe] sensitive to your body count. So they'll query you how many people you've had. And that is either[Phoebe] a bonus or not. So it's very, very interesting. Yeah. We've seen people ask frequently,[Ed] do you have to be a certain size or shape to be in the lifestyle? Do you have to have like[Ed] epic proportions? Do, you know, is is penis size a thing?[Ed] Breast size, age, all of those questions come up all the time. And I think most of it comes down[Ed] to people are self-conscious. They want to feel attractive. They want to be attractive. And they[Ed] don't want to show up at a party and not have any fun or feel like they're the odd balls,[Ed] the outcasts. And we can definitively say that no matter where you are, there is a huge range[Ed] of body sizes, shapes, etc. for you to choose from or to be chosen by.[Ed] Everything. I mean, we've seen people who are heavy set. We've seen people who are in very[Ed] good shape. And that doesn't necessarily exclude those two groups from playing with each other.[Ed] Right. Like we've seen a lot of mixing up of different sizes and shapes. Because you know what,[Ed] people's sexual preferences are varied. Yeah. And they don't necessarily have a type just because[Phoebe] they look like that type. Right. People like different. So it doesn't necessarily mean they want[Phoebe] to play like you said with their type. Now, I will say there are some groups, some of the vagus[Phoebe] groups in the summertime, some of those parties tend to be skewed a little more towards a specific[Phoebe] demographic. Right. Or type. Certain areas in the United States are a little different.[Phoebe] Maybe you are joining a party or an event that's hosted by some swingers who are very fitness[Phoebe] oriented. Maybe they're fitness coaches. Right. So the people that they draw that community that[Unknown] they draw are going to be very fitness oriented. So what's great is that there's and there's[Phoebe] something for everybody. Yeah. And you can kind of figure out, you know, where you fit in.[Phoebe] I will say though, when we would go to local parties, I still suffered from[Phoebe] G, you know, everyone here is like super hot. Right. Right. And in some of that self-confidence,[Phoebe] how you're feeling that day, obvious as women, we struggle with that a lot. So it's not that you're[Phoebe] not going to feel like you don't fit in. It will happen where you're like, you and I have walked[Phoebe] into a party and we're like, Oh, damn. Oh, this is not our crowd. And we made our rounds. We said[Phoebe] hi to the host. Right. And then we politely left. Yeah. So for different reasons, it happens.[Ed] Yeah. So yeah. And one of the things that we kind of skipped over our outline, which we'll[Ed] I'll kind of dig into here. And that's the different ways that people party. Oh, yes. That's[Ed] we've seen everything. We've seen parties where people are heavy drinkers. We've seen parties where[Ed] people are very lightly drinking. Right. They they're concerned about whiskey dick. And so they[Ed] they're just not drinking or they're drinking like a light beer or something so that they're[Ed] still on their game. We've seen we've seen substances used. And for a brief period of time,[Ed] we didn't know it at the time. There was a guy actually dealing at the parties. He's the sense got[Ed] banned from a lot of the events because the host didn't want that going on at the party. So yeah,[Ed] I mean, there's all kinds of stuff going on at parties. Now, I guess the question is how does[Ed] this affect your experience at parties and what you should expect? And I think the expectation[Ed] is that you're going to run across a whole bunch of different stuff. And you either have to be[Ed] comfortable saying, no, thank you. I'm not interested, which we recommend if you've never done[Ed] something. Even if it's pot, don't recommend trying it for the first time at a party.[Ed] Because you're going to run across stuff that you've never experienced before. Like, for example,[Phoebe] an infused joint. Oh my god. Yeah, that's a story about that.[Phoebe] Which I'll get into in a second. And I do want to say that each, there are groups that do play[Phoebe] heavily just in like with substances. Sure. Because they like the sensory play when they're[Phoebe] taking ecstasy or MDMA or or maybe they're taking cocaine. They're they're taking something because[Phoebe] they they want to have a different type of experience. And so it's it's it opens them up and they[Phoebe] they're not so interested in the sexual engagement part, but they're interested in more of the[Phoebe] the people sensory part of it. And that just that open community and to be free and express who[Unknown] they really are and let the two cells come out. So it might be confusing if you walk into a group[Phoebe] that's maybe come into a party. Let's say you went to a house party. They've got 50 people there[Phoebe] and a group of 30 core people descend on the party. They all know each other and they're using[Phoebe] substances. You might feel like the odd man out because you're like, what the hell is going on?[Phoebe] Right. I'll miss an out because clearly something's going on. Well, we've we've absolutely had[Ed] that experience even with just drinking where we were the we showed up fashionably late to a party[Unknown] and by the time we got there everybody was hammered. Yeah. I mean just blotto. And everyone knows what[Phoebe] that's like to catch up. It's an awful feeling. You feel like the third wheel and you're like, oh my[Phoebe] God, I'm so far behind in my drinking game or whatever. And you're like, just it feels awkward.[Ed] So, you know, that's going to happen. So yeah. Oh, go ahead. So here's your story.[Phoebe] The story. Dun, dun, dun. So I had experimented with pot before but usually in very small doses[Phoebe] at home. Right. Because I'm a lightweight. And I don't know a lot about which kind what, you know,[Phoebe] I'm I was still experimenting at the time with food without food which time of day, you know,[Phoebe] which which kind of all the variables of and the previous experience, the exact like one experience[Ed] before we you and I both had had a cookie. Oh, yeah, had another party at a different party. This[Ed] was a vanilla party. And holy crap, we were both like really sick. I was sick and Ed was laughing[Phoebe] at me because I kept telling him I wanted to go to the emergency room and he would laugh at me.[Ed] Well, because you you were convinced that I was going to die and die. And I I had to explain.[Ed] And of course, I'm high. So it's it's very challenging. No help. I'm throwing up in the bathroom[Phoebe] all that. Hence the second party. We were trusted friends. We've been there before. New the group.[Phoebe] Yep. Everyone had left. We're just chilling out afterwards hanging out. One of the one of the other[Phoebe] guests that was was there pass around this joint. I didn't know it was infused. We didn't even know[Phoebe] that was a thing. I didn't know. So I have a very large lung capacity. So I took a really nice[Phoebe] big long draw. She has very large lungs as you can see. Big mistake. Instantly within 30 seconds,[Phoebe] 15 seconds. I could feel it hit me like a rock. Yeah. I went to the bathroom. I felt nauseous right[Phoebe] away. Oh man, the paranoia. The heart was racing. I thought I was going to die. I thought I was[Phoebe] going to stop breathing. I had to sit on the floor and rock myself back and forth like a mental[Phoebe] patient. I was freaked out because everyone was staring at me. We tried the salt trick, which is[Ed] supposed to dilute the TFC in your bloodstream pepper to yeah, there's all kinds of there's[Phoebe] all kinds of like there was one that I did find and I told you remember and I don't remember[Ed] because I'm never going to do it again, but it'll never happen again, right? Oh my god.[Phoebe] Because you know, it only happens once. Anyway, we've all been there. I'm sure. So the moral of[Ed] the story was at parties, you may experience things that you hadn't experienced before. You know,[Ed] sticking on the topic of diversity, you might run across substances that you hadn't tried before.[Ed] We do not recommend trying things for the first time unless it's sexual. Absolutely. Take the[Unknown] training wheels off. Have fun. But in terms of substances, oh yeah, of course, get have consent.[Unknown] It's all it's all consent based. And that's another aspect of this that we can kind of talk about[Unknown] in terms of diversity in terms of consent. Oh yeah. People's definition or approach to consent[Unknown] varies pretty widely within the lifestyle. Yes. We have heard in Europe as an example that there's[Ed] a sense of implied consent at a lot of the lifestyle clubs. Right. You're there. You're clearly[Ed] there to have fun sexy times. And so the concept of contact hugging, kissing on a neck, those are all[Unknown] kind of above board. All right. We need your help so that your community, the very one you love and[Unknown] have so much fun with can also find our show. Here's a really easy way to do that. If you're listening[Ed] on Apple podcasts or Spotify, hit that follow button and leave us a rating. If you're watching on[Ed] YouTube, subscribe and turn on notifications. We can't emphasize enough how much this helps the[Ed] swing our community. And it truly is up to you to make that happen. It makes a massive difference[Unknown] in whether new listeners can even find us. And here's the thing. When someone searches,[Ed] swing or podcast, the algorithm doesn't care how good our content is or how long we've been around.[Unknown] It only cares about ratings and reviews. We'd appreciate it. And your community will really[Unknown] appreciate it. Thanks for listening. People will approach you, kiss you. Most Europeans do kiss you[Phoebe] on the cheek. There's a lot of kissing going on. And they have a lot of proximity. Your bubble.[Phoebe] Yeah. Personal space. Personal space is different there. So yeah, you may get a kiss, you may get a[Unknown] grope. And that's normal. Yeah. And it from the person who described this cake from one or less[Ed] was telling us about this. It's it's not so it's not as creepy. But if you're not expecting it.[Ed] Right. It's going to take you off a little bit. Now here in the United States, we are way more[Ed] kind of ask first touch later. Yeah. If you touch first and forget to ask, you may get your hands[Ed] slapped. Yeah. There's there's definitely a hierarchy in terms of expected behavior and consent.[Ed] But what I will say is we're not particularly good about asking for consent of front. There's a[Ed] lot of this like implied consent, even here, where you're all in the bed and you're kind of playing[Ed] together. Therefore, you're you're you're kind of like doing it. We've been quote guilty of that[Ed] where there's nonverbal consent. Definitely a, you know, a head shake or a finger where it was[Ed] pretty clear. Right. By their nonverbal communication that they were interested in. They wanted to[Phoebe] engage with us. Right. Right. And and people are very afraid of ruining the experience of[Unknown] ruining the mood with words. Right. And and and I I thought that way and I have fallen prey to that[Phoebe] bad experience because that's how I thought. Right. What I what I changed and what I learned was[Unknown] it's very sexy and for me a very mental turn on to ask for exactly what I want that evening[Phoebe] from that individual and see if they can supply that. Right. Then I it's it's it's it's you know right[Phoebe] up front what's going to happen and what to expect. And it's almost like a contract. Now that could[Phoebe] change in between. You just use words and it doesn't have to be long sentences. Can I kiss you[Phoebe] here? Can I touch you there? Right. Would you like this? Can I do that? They're very short sentences.[Phoebe] It's very easy to say and it's really sexy. It's a turn on. Yeah. I mean, especially if you can say[Ed] it in the right way. Like think about it as kind of a pickup line. Think of it as a seduction line.[Ed] It doesn't have to be mother mayi or Simon says right. It doesn't have to feel that way. Kind of[Phoebe] robotic and perfunctory. And you can direct your experience in that way too. Like because not[Phoebe] everybody knows your your buttons and so you could say could you kiss here? Could you. Right. Would[Ed] you like to do this thing to me? Right. I would love this. Would you? Yes. And so then people[Unknown] feel like they're they're giving you something they want to please you and you've asked for it. And[Phoebe] so it's like it's it's pretty cool. Once you get used to doing that, it's just like anything. Right.[Unknown] Something you have to practice. Let's talk about one other aspect of diversity. And I think it's[Ed] something that you and I really enjoy in the lifestyle. And that is the cultural differences between[Ed] people and the physical differences between people. We we kind of like the contrast of different[Ed] skin colors and different hair. Hair like. Yeah. Body like, you know, a guy who looks like the[Phoebe] the you know, someone who's massively tall in his wide as a house. You're like, we met them on[Phoebe] the cruise. You're like, wow, you're an fascinating human. Right. I've never met anyone like that.[Phoebe] I've never touched anyone like that. Their body frame is incredibly cool. You know, someone with[Phoebe] beautiful, you know, golden brown skin tones. I don't have that. I it curly hair. I would just[Unknown] love to rub my fingers through a woman's curly hair, but I know you don't do that. So it's[Phoebe] I love and celebrate our differences. And I love that we are also different and beautiful[Phoebe] in those ways. Yeah. And I just I just I like anyone different than me because I'm boring.[Ed] I would disagree. And I think most of your partners would also disagree. But I think that the[Ed] the thing about it is for us, it's that novelty aspect. And we've done episodes where we've talked[Ed] about, uh, NRE, we've talked about, uh, does your swing or card expire? I was actually just looking[Ed] at that episode recently. And it really comes down to the brain likes new. It likes experiencing[Ed] new things. So a new car, new foods, new just sensory newness excites the brain. So in lifestyle[Unknown] situations, when you're running in a diverse group, you get a lot of new like I've never, I've[Phoebe] never kissed a woman with that shaped lip or right. Those curvy hips or those nipples the size of[Unknown] gum drops. Oh, yeah. We're fierce nipples, right? There's all kinds of fun stuff.[Unknown] Or pierced other things. Yeah. So we we really enjoy it within their own whatever's[Ed] where the exact opposite. And I think a lot of other people are. So yeah, let us know in the comments[Ed] if you think diversity is fun. If you think that, uh, having that different experiences,[Ed] all part of the game, like, right. Really, what does it for you? And the other thing I want to ask, um,[Phoebe] our watchers to chat about comment on is DTF. There seems to be, uh, very diverse camps in that[Phoebe] either you are or you're not. Right. And there's almost a judgment on if you are. Right. And[Phoebe] the judgment is that you are a Wambam, thank you, ma'am, and you don't get to know the person.[Phoebe] Well, that hasn't been our experience. Um, and looking back, I would say that we were mostly DTF[Phoebe] because we didn't want to get to know people too intimately. Right. Because we weren't interested in[Phoebe] building relationships. First of all, we didn't have the time. We were raising kids. We had busy[Phoebe] jobs and lives. Right. Our, it just what there's only so much time in the day. Yeah. We were,[Ed] we were there for the event and for that experience for that night. Right. But it doesn't mean we weren't[Ed] polite and social when, you know, or got numbers or anything. Right. Yeah. We, we, we have[Phoebe] communication skills and flirt skills, but a lot of people really want to get to know you.[Phoebe] Yes. Um, like maybe three or four dates or something like that. It takes them a lot longer to warm[Phoebe] up. And that's totally fine. Right. So you might find there are this kind of weird awkwardness.[Phoebe] If you're a DTF person and someone's really slow. Right. You're like, oh my gosh, how do I get[Ed] them there? It may take a while. Yeah. And a lot of that comes down to how people's arousal[Unknown] works. There are a number of people who need a more intimate connection with somebody. They[Ed] actually need to feel safe and connected to them. Yes. Yes. Before they're aroused by them.[Ed] Um, we typically haven't had that problem. Um, although in later years in the lifestyle,[Ed] you've preferred to have a little bit more of a connection. And I think that has to do with[Unknown] people getting to know all of your buttons. Yeah. And your play style. Yeah. And, and that's[Ed] harder when it's a one night stand, if you would. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Our lives have changed. The[Unknown] kids have moved on. We have more time. We are enjoying this period in our life where we can go[Phoebe] on vacations and hang out with people longer. Right. Right. So it's different. And that's what's fun[Unknown] about the lifestyles. It changes the balls and grows. Yeah. And because of that, we've made some,[Ed] over the years, made some long-term connections with some people in Virginia, with some people in[Phoebe] Texas. Um, so if you're in those areas. Hi. And Colorado. And Colorado.[Phoebe] Intimacy. There's, there are some people that really building on that connection. They really[Phoebe] want a very intimate experience. And I used to think that word was very threatening. Right.[Phoebe] Intimidment. Oh my god. You're like, you're getting the feels for me. And I need to be like,[Phoebe] you're in a relationship. Yeah. Like it's threatening memory. It's threatening my relationship.[Phoebe] It's, that's too dangerous. And then I had an experience with someone that was, it was like a,[Phoebe] a love-making experience. Right. We were all in the same room together. Right. And it was very[Phoebe] intimate and soft. And it was, it was lovely. I was like, really impressed and surprised how[Phoebe] much I enjoyed that. Yeah. And so some people are really seeking more of that type of connection,[Phoebe] which is why they need to get to know you better and feel safe. And so that build up,[Phoebe] they wouldn't be DTF people. Right. Because they wouldn't be able to get there. Yeah.[Phoebe] For that intimate connection. Yeah. So finding individuals that really are,[Unknown] know that about themselves and can express that, I will say though, a lot of swingers,[Phoebe] maybe we just weren't really good at asking those questions because we just didn't know what we wanted.[Unknown] Yeah. But we kept, it was like a game of darts or pinball or something. We just kept hit,[Unknown] sometimes you hit, but there was a lot of misses. Yeah. Yeah. And I wish, I wish we had had those[Unknown] tools to ask more pointed questions. Yeah. It would have saved us a lot of trouble in the early years[Unknown] for sure. Yeah. We would have gotten to it. We would have figured it out sooner. Yeah. And I don't[Unknown] even know if a lot of people really know that. Well, that's what we're doing this thing. Right.[Phoebe] Yes. Different ages. Now, this is an interesting one because I think most people have kind of like[Ed] a plus or minus five years around their age, kind of a rule. Right. I think generally, if you[Ed] disagree, let us know in the chat. But we, we like different age ranges. Yeah. We've certainly[Ed] expanded our range from when we first started. Right.[Guest] Here's why we sail on Virgin. It's adults only. No kids screaming at breakfast, no family buffet[Guest] lines, just champagne at noon, late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there.[Guest] The vibe. Think boutique hotel that happens to float. Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants,[Guest] you'd actually pay for on land. Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how[Guest] to have fun, let's just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wonder bread[Unknown] cruisers here, just your people. Some, some people are have kids. And they're like, as their kids[Phoebe] get older, they're like, nope, I'm not going to. Yeah. Anybody under 30, nope. Right. Right.[Phoebe] They just can't do it. It's just too creepy for them. And I get it. I mean, I understand.[Phoebe] We haven't had that barrier for us. I'm not sure why. Maybe just, yeah.[Unknown] It just wasn't a thing. I think it's because I didn't make the mental connection between age[Ed] and the relationship that I had with my family. That's different. Yeah. It's not the same thing.[Phoebe] I think it's because we are, yes, you're right, our mental space. We are not at home. We are on[Phoebe] vacation or we're out for the evening and we are doing something just for us in a different place.[Phoebe] We're not thinking about family. We're not thinking about our jobs. So the people that are[Ed] actually thinking about their kids, maybe get your head in the game. Right. Maybe don't. Stop[Ed] thinking about that. Think about better things. Exactly. The opposite end of the spectrum,[Ed] which is kind of where I was mentally going was I, I've had a few experiences with older women.[Ed] And I was surprised at how much fun I had. And I was surprised at how attracted I was as things[Ed] kind of happened at parties and events. Yeah. And I've ended up with some women who are not exactly[Ed] twice my age. I'm too old for that. But a good 20 years senior to me. And you know what?[Ed] It was a hell of a lot of fun. I had a good, I had a great time. The whole thing about they have[Unknown] experienced, yeah, they have experience. Yeah. Yeah. They're confident. They know their bodies very[Unknown] well. And they're there for fun. Right. They're like, yeah. They know what they want. Just do that[Unknown] thing. Yeah. I know. It's I know. Older woman is a thing. Yeah. Younger man is a thing. Yeah.[Ed] We have definitely experienced both ends of that spectrum. Yeah. And did we talk about the[Phoebe] length of the partnership where some people will only consider you as a as a as a as a couple,[Ed] a potential play partner. If you kind of alluded to it, we could probably talk a little bit more[Ed] about that. We've definitely met couples that had a no newbie rule also. So there's also the[Ed] length and the lifestyle. Right. They're not interested in kind of breaking couples in. And[Unknown] that whole newbie thing, we're the opposite. Sort of. I'll clarify. One of the things that we've[Ed] experienced is with new couples, they may or may not show up to a second party. So if you really[Ed] like them, if you're attracted to them, you probably want to approach them and see if anything[Ed] happens because they may not come back to a second party. It may not be their thing. You might[Ed] be their only experience. Right. And if you don't want to miss out on that experience, then you may[Unknown] want to be that person. All right. You know, get in line. But I get it. I get why because they want[Ed] to establish a long-term relationship or some kind of a partnership that happens over and over[Guest] that intimacy. And with newbies, if they're one and done, then you can't come back. You can't[Ed] reconnect with them. You can't like go out for drinks later. You can't go dancing. You can't have[Ed] that like second and third and fourth date. So I get it. Plus, there's the whole drama factor.[Ed] I was going to say that. Yeah. So talk about, talk about quote, drama. We talked about drama and[Ed] I think our last episode. Yeah. We'll talk a couple episodes. Yeah. A lot of people use that term[Phoebe] as a negative description. Honestly, I don't like it used in that way because people,[Phoebe] they use it to describe individuals that are that something comes up. Right. And the bottom line is[Phoebe] something's always going to come up between partners for humans. We're messy. Nothing's ever smooth.[Phoebe] Nothing's ever easy. Right. So give some people some grace. If something comes up, maybe they have[Phoebe] they had a simple miscommunication. Sure. It's not a big deal. Give them, give them a pass.[Phoebe] You know, thankfully they went to the bathroom or a closet to go talk it out or they let went[Phoebe] outside to go to have a discussion and they didn't make a big scene at the party. We rarely ever[Phoebe] seen anything like that. Maybe once. Right. But but some people think that that's just like, oh,[Ed] you know, they hate that. In a sense what they're what they're hoping for is that everybody's[Unknown] DTF with no issues ever. Right. But and that doesn't happen. I mean, there's going to be situations where[Ed] like, oh, oh, this woman triggered you. You know, there was something that she did or the way[Unknown] that she interacted. We've had that before. Oh, yeah. And and I'm like, nope. Yeah. And there's[Unknown] nothing wrong with that. Your primary partner, the person who theoretically you're going home with[Unknown] at the end of the night, unless you piss them off. They're your responsibility. That's your whole[Ed] thing. So forget about the other couple. You're going to take care of your business. And I think[Ed] any couple who's in the lifestyle is going to first and foremost, protect the relationship that[Ed] they came into that event. Yeah. So that's a really good point. Absolutely. Give the[Phoebe] yeah, you should be applauding it. They're like, oh, they're talking it out. They're taking care of[Phoebe] each other. Good for them. And so that's why I don't like when people say, oh, they're so much[Unknown] right. They'll just throw that term around like it's now if you if you have a couple that you[Phoebe] see every single party that's always in an argument. Oh, sure. Well, yeah, maybe they're[Phoebe] but we've never seen that usually those people, they just don't show up. Yeah, they show up at one[Phoebe] party and then because of it's always a painful experience for them if they're never on the same[Ed] page, they're not going to keep coming back. And all the commenters and YouTube who are haters[Ed] about the lifestyle are going to love this particular statement. And that is there are[Ed] couples who break up during their whole lifestyle experience. We've made the argument and we[Ed] definitely believe this that if you end up in a divorce or a breakup while you're in the lifestyle,[Unknown] it's probably not the lifestyle that broke you up. Right. It's probably all of those other[Ed] underlying issues that have been eating away at your relationship before you even consider[Ed] swinging. And that goes back to the whole swinging will not fix your marriage. No, it is not for[Phoebe] people who are trying to like spice things up. Yeah, you can spice things up. Sure. But it's not[Ed] a fix. Like go talk to a marriage counselor. Don't start swinging. Yeah, absolutely higher[Ed] professional. And I mean, not a not a pro pro, not like sex worker. Right. Like higher a therapist.[Ed] Yeah, those sex workers are quite therapeutic sometimes. They do a lot of listening and talking[Phoebe] to people. So hey, yeah, I agree. Body count. Some people are very sensitive to your body count.[Phoebe] And they will ask you how many partners have you had? How many single guys have you had? How many,[Phoebe] you know, right? They want to know. And it's a risk level assessment for them. Yeah.[Unknown] Based on how they like to play. Yeah. And I think that that kind of leans into another topic that[Ed] we had in our list. We we chose to avoid it because it was too serious. It was about STIs. And I[Ed] think that's where a lot of that kind of like underlying body count phobia is. And it's that[Unknown] it's that misconception that frequent flyers are disease-ridden, right? Like they're not clean[Ed] because they've had sex with too many people. And that's not how diseases work because you could[Unknown] be a virgin have one sexual experience and catch an STI. Yeah. So frequency chart increases your[Ed] risk over time, you know, in the long game. But that's not a that is not a pure indicator of whether[Ed] or not someone is quote clean. And it's such a horrible way of describing it. But yeah,[Phoebe] free of sexually transmitted infections. Now the person she slept with was disease that freaks.[Ed] Hey there podcast listeners. You've been tuning into our episodes. But if you ever wondered[Ed] about the steamy details of our adventures or maybe hungry for some sultry erotic stories.[Phoebe] Well, guess what? We've got something special just for you. Our exclusive Patreon page. It's[Phoebe] like a VIP pass to the sussier side of our world. So if you're ready for an exclusive behind the[Ed] Mike experience, head over to our Patreon page now. Trust us. This is where the magic happens.[Phoebe] See you there patrons.[Phoebe] A point of that's the whole thing comes down to. But it's not the one. It's just something else.[Ed] It's people who are not practicing safe sex and end up with that. But that's a different topic.[Phoebe] Yeah, and that's the key. Like what is your risk level? How are you practicing safe sex?[Phoebe] What are you use? What are your methods? How clean and are you being? So yeah, there's there's[Phoebe] there's a whole like you said. It's a whole other episode, which we might get into next time.[Ed] Yeah. And what's interesting about this body count concept? I've definitely heard this from like[Ed] from men in vanilla social media all about, well, she better be a virgin. Pure as white, snow,[Ed] before I marry her, have sex with her, whatever, right? Like the women have to be[Ed] virgins. That's still virgins. But the guys, of course, they're all high-fiving each other that[Ed] they've had sex with everybody that they could possibly get their hands on. But those aren't the[Phoebe] girls you marry, right? Like that's the mentality. Yeah, it's a cultural thing as well in certain cultures.[Ed] Sure, sure. I also think that it's that naive concept that, you know, they're pure. Right,[Phoebe] just because it's a cultural concept doesn't mean it's not naive. It's just it's just based on[Ed] something in that culture. Yeah. And so what's interesting is to see that kind of cross over[Ed] into the lifestyle because the whole point of being in a lifestyle is to have sex with other people.[Ed] So then it starts to become a degree of... Right. Okay, so, you know, you go in with your primary[Ed] partner. There's one person that you've had sex with. But if you go to A party and you have sex[Unknown] with somebody then that's two people that you've had sex with. Okay, when is it too much? Like when[Unknown] what's the threshold for too many five parties one a year? Sometimes it's number of partners[Phoebe] a night. So if someone's at a party and they see that you've had sex with five people that night,[Unknown] they're going to be like, no, not going to happen. I've had some nights like that. So, you know,[Phoebe] you just have to roll with it. Some people, you know, are going to have those preferences.[Unknown] And this in no way is shaming the people who have the body count issue or have a standard to which[Ed] they hold themselves for that. It's just be aware that there are people who are going to maybe[Ed] ask you that and maybe have issue with how many people you've had sex with. Now, here's the other[Ed] aspect of this. Most people do not remember how many people they've had sex with. And B,[Ed] may or may not be honest about who or how many people they've had sex with, which also leads to[Unknown] that other episode we've just finished talking about. All right. Well, that topic really,[Phoebe] that blew up. That did blow up. That was like six items there that got crazy. Yeah. So,[Phoebe] do we have any comments, questions, things like that? Well, I've been watching the chat. I don't[Ed] see anybody commenting, except for Leonardo 77 who commented at the very beginning who said,[Ed] congrats from Brazil. Thank you for helping couples enter the lifestyle. And of course,[Unknown] thank you for watching Leonardo. Great painter and sculptured by the way in an adventure.[Unknown] Big fan of all your work. But this is our maiden voyage. We didn't make any announcements[Phoebe] ahead of time. Oh, yeah. So we're just, it's a pop-up live is what it is. Absolutely. And[Unknown] angel joined the last time I was live when I was trying to set stuff up and kind of screwing[Ed] around in the studio. They, I mean, I'm just going to assume they because I don't, I don't know[Unknown] gender. So I'm just going to go with day. Subscribe on Twitch. So thank you very much. You're probably[Ed] one of the, I think you're the third subscriber on Twitch for us, which is super cool.[Phoebe] And yeah. So what's next? What we're going to do this every two weeks? Yeah, the idea is that[Ed] we're going to do a public live every two weeks. So theoretically, we're going to try and do them[Phoebe] on Mondays. Yesterday was a, was a, was a Monday. Yeah. We, we had issues Monday. So we, we rolled it[Ed] to Tuesday. But the idea is to try and do it on Tuesday so that Wednesday, I can, or Monday,[Ed] so that I can edit the episode and get it up as like a regular episode on Wednesday for general[Ed] consumption. Haven't worked out all the kinks still trying things. So here you are watching us[Ed] on our, our maiden voyage. We did a previous session live, which was for our patrons on Patreon.[Ed] We let them really get the, the guinea pig treatments. They, like all kinds of stuff from sideways.[Ed] And like I said, the, even the video sinking for some reason, your camera, just this one is off.[Ed] Just, just a couple milliseconds. I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah, the, the Patreon[Phoebe] episode. We were muted for about the first 20 minutes. Oh god. I forgot about that. So yeah,[Phoebe] that was terrible. But we made it work. We had, had fast forwarded the video and we were like,[Ed] and then we did a quick summary and then continued on. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it happens. It was all right.[Ed] It was all right. So yeah, we're, we're trying this new thing. Let us know in the comments whether you,[Ed] whether you like this new format, whether you think it's, uh, it's got some legs, so to speak. And[Ed] you know, yeah, tell us what you think. And if you're interested in our, I mentioned it,[Ed] but if you're interested in our Patreon content are behind the scene stuff where you get kind of a[Ed] sneak preview of everything that's going on in the podcast, but also what's going on in our personal[Ed] lives, a little bit more. Uh, we, we do a lot of, we do content every other week. So Patreon[Ed] content would be for next week. Uh, we will be remote. We'll be out of studio. Yeah.[Ed] That episode. And, uh, probably, probably recording poolside. Oh, yeah. So that could be fun.[Phoebe] At our little resort. Our little, yeah, our, our resort in the mountains. So yeah, let's see.[Ed] I got to do the right thing. Oh, yeah. It's right there. Let's see. I can't even tell. So here we[Ed] are. Now we're in, ask us anything mode, but there's nobody here to ask anything, or at least no one's[Ed] chatted yet. So let's see. We've got seven viewers on YouTube. And what does Twitch say?[Unknown] I'm going to read a spark card. Yeah, go for it. Well, you're doing your technology thing because[Phoebe] we have people watching. And I really am poor when people are like looking at their screen.[Phoebe] Right. No. And like not looking at you. So I'm looking at you. What is the most underrated,[Unknown] simple pleasure in life? Of course, most underrated, simple pleasure in life.[Phoebe] That's a really good question. Underrated, simple pleasure.[Ed] Well, I mean, my first thing that pops into my head is naps, but, oh, yeah. That's kind of a simple,[Phoebe] simple pleasure. But sitting on a mountain top, because we do a lot of backpacking, I love sitting[Phoebe] on a mountain top with binoculars and just looking at the scenery. Right. I could do that honestly[Unknown] for an hour. And I have it's better than reading a book secretly. I'm trying to find bats or a[Phoebe] bear or a mountain lion. Right. I swear someday I'm going to I will find the bear coming out of[Phoebe] the cave on the mountain side. I really want to see that someday. But I haven't. But we've seen[Unknown] bald eagles and all kinds of stuff. I take that back about the mountain lion. I really don't[Phoebe] want to see them. If I can see them, that means they can see me. And that's not right. Or smell you[Ed] and yeah, can get you. So never mind on that one. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.[Phoebe] Simple pleasure. Let me have a card. Oh, another one. Yep. Are we done with our technology thing[Ed] that you're doing? Oh, I was checking to see if there were people here. I'm supposed to read the[Phoebe] question. Or you were going to read it and ask me. Well, this one's for you. Oh, which celebrity[Unknown] do most people often say that you look like? Well, when my hair was blonde, it was Phoebe from[Phoebe] friends because the mannerisms are the same. And I like to elongate my words. And that's amazing.[Unknown] And my facial expression, things like that. So it was a little more obvious when my hair was[Ed] blonde. But did you like to bust out and song occasional? I do like the bust out and song.[Phoebe] Smelly cat. Smelly cat. Wow. Are they treating you? I used to get people[Ed] calling me Ed Norton all the time. So that's especially with your hair short and the[Ed] go team. Yeah. Yeah. There was a movie that he did, which was a fantastic movie, but it was[Unknown] really hard to watch. Good story. And I did. For a long time, I looked like no, it was a different[Ed] one. I won't mention the name of the movie because it deals with a subject that I have a[Phoebe] four. Okay. But yeah. Okay. So we're done with our topic. I was reading Spark Cards while you[Phoebe] were doing technology things because it didn't want people to be too bored. So are we done?[Ed] I think that's it. Unless anybody on the chat has a question or wants to ask us something.[Phoebe] Um, it's hot in here because I turned up the AC. Yeah, it's funny. I can't see how many people[Unknown] for so the stream manager on Twitch on this device is not very good. Um, no to self. So, so thank you.[Phoebe] Everyone for joining. And we really appreciate your time. Hopefully it was interesting. And uh,[Unknown] for you. And um, are you going to do some technology things now to kind of just figure things out[Ed] because we're done, right? Yeah. We're going to, we're going to sign off here. Thank you very much.[Ed] As we say, tell a friend about our podcast, our show and spread the word. We'd love to have[Ed] more viewers and check, check your social media for, for our announcement for the next episode.[Phoebe] Oh, and join our, um, go to our website and join the newsletter because, oh, yeah,[Phoebe] we've got good things that come out in the newsletter as well. Yeah, we announced episodes and[Phoebe] we have vacations, fun stuff, fun articles. Yeah, that's two people and stuff. Education,[Unknown] education. All right, folks. Thanks. Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you[Ed] in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review.[Ed] It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship[Ed] education. And we've made it easy. Visit SwingerUniversity.com forward slash review. All the instructions[Ed] are there. Thank you for being part of this community. We'll see you again soon.