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Leaving America E12: Taxation without Representation and Renunciation

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The invisible chain that follows every American abroad isn't nostalgia—it's the IRS. Unlike citizens of virtually every other nation, Americans must file tax returns no matter where they build their lives, creating a bureaucratic burden that turns paradise into paperwork.

This final episode of Leaving America dives deep into the unique tax situation facing U.S. citizens abroad. We explore the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion that shields most expats from actually paying U.S. taxes, but doesn't protect them from the annual filing requirement. We unpack FATCA—the law that turned Americans into toxic banking clients by forcing foreign financial institutions to report directly to the IRS or face severe penalties. Many expats now pay thousands to accountants just to file zero-balance returns.

For some, this perpetual tether becomes too much to bear, leading to citizenship renunciation—the ultimate step in cutting ties with America. We walk through this process step by step: the $2,350 fee, the embassy appointment, the potential "exit tax" for higher-net-worth individuals, and what happens to Social Security and Medicare benefits afterward. Is freedom from IRS paperwork worth giving up your blue passport?

Throughout the episode, experts like Tim Marting from Citizen Remote, David Lesperance from Lesperance Associates, Adrian Leeds from House Hunters International, and Basil Mohr-Elzeki from Henley & Partners offer insights on navigating these complex waters. We close with reflections from expats who've found their homes abroad, whether they've kept their U.S. citizenship or decided to let it go.

Featuring:

Tim Marting

David Lesperance

Basil Mohr-Elzeki

Matt Wilson

Karen McCann

Richard McColl

Tim Leffell

Adrian Leeds

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Majestic Earth - Joystock



Tim Marting:

Citizen Remote is a global mobility company. In essence, we help with visas, taxes, accommodation, insurance. We also have a social community. We have over 20,000 members. Our big thing is understanding the complexity within visas. So obviously we do a lot of everything, but right now we're really niching down on helping people with visas because that's the first part of the process that people encounter when relocating abroad. Obviously, the next year you're going to have to do taxes, so you can use us for that. You're going to have to get insurance up front, so you can use us for that. But visas is quite complex and we essentially have immigration teams on the ground in over 35 different countries and we're growing that number every day.

Shawn Fettig:

Welcome to Leaving America, the podcast where we unpack the fine print of life abroad, the clauses you didn't read before you packed your bags. In today's episode our final episode of this series we're focusing on the one topic that unites almost every American living overseas the tax system. Not how much you pay, though, that matters, but the fact that the United States insists on hearing from you every single year, no matter where you live, what you earn or whether you've set foot on US soil. Since Carter was in office, most countries keep it simple If you don't live there, they stop taxing you Canada, france, australia, even tax-heavy Denmark lets go when you move on. But the US, we're special. We tax based on citizenship, not residency.

Shawn Fettig:

Leave Kansas for Kathmandu and the IRS will still expect a postcard in the form of Form 1040 every single year. And the IRS doesn't just want to know what you made. They want to know where you bank, what you own and how much you're worth. Thanks to FATCA, the 2010 law that turned foreign banks into unpaid IRS informants, your accounts abroad are often reported automatically. Some banks comply. Others simply refuse to deal with Americans at all, which means that, while your new country might welcome you, your local bank manager might look at your US passport like it's radioactive. This is the reality for Americans abroad. You need to file annual tax returns even if you owe nothing. You have to navigate exclusions, credits and reporting rules so convoluted you probably need a professional just to break even and you could face penalties that can wipe out savings if you miss a single form, forms that don't even exist in most countries' systems. For some, this is just the price of the blue passport, for others it's a deal-breaker. And that's where the other subject for today's episode comes in Renunciation, the nuclear option, the I'm done button. The only way to guarantee that the IRS stops calling is to hand in the passport entirely.

Shawn Fettig:

We're going to walk through both worlds today. First, the mechanics and burdens of taxation as an American abroad, what you're on the hook for, how to stay compliant and why it's so exhausting, but also, with the help of some experts, you'll hear from today how to navigate it without losing too much sleep. Then the renunciation process what it costs, how it works and what you lose along with your citizenship. I'm your host, shawn C Fettig, and if you've ever thought, surely they won't chase me across borders for taxes. You've clearly never met the US government and you're absolutely in the right place To stay updated on the latest episodes. Follow, like and share Leaving America on the Deep Dive with shawn podcast feed. Wherever you get your podcasts, and if you've concluded that the US government can't be trusted with your future and you're weighing the pros and cons of swapping your blue passport for something with fewer tax forms, email us at deepdivewithshawn at gmailcom. All right, pack your bags. This is Leaving America. All right, pack your bags. This is Leaving America.

Tim Marting:

Essentially, what you're going to have to do is you're going to always have to file in the US, no matter what. So there is that, and that's not fun. A lot of people around the world don't have to deal with that, but, being an American myself, I've always had to deal with it. But the thing is is it really isn't that complex. The only thing you're going to have to do is find a local accountant tax agent in the country in which you're living and you have to file taxes in that country. If you've lived in that country for most countries for over 183 days a year, so a majority of the year that essentially makes you a tax resident in that country, so you'll have to file at year-end taxes in that country. So let's just use Spain for an example. When you're living in Spain, after you've lived there for a majority of the year, you file taxes in Spain and you also file taxes in the US, and so the way that that works is the way I've done it in the past is you have a tax accountant, you do all of your income that you made in the country Even though I was working from abroad and made income from abroad, you still have to file it with Spain. You take that tax return and then submit it to the US. Most of the time, unless you're in a special tax regime, you're going to have to pay more taxes in the country that you're living abroad.

Tim Marting:

The US is actually quite strong with taxes in the sense that they're lower than most everywhere else around the world. So when you file that return in the US, you've already paid the amount of taxes, unless you don't have a double taxation agreement with the US the country in which you're living which then gets a little bit more complex. But you're essentially not going to have to pay more on your tax return in the US. It's essentially paid all your taxes in the country in which you're living abroad. So the way we help with that is, if you're needing tax to file your tax return which you will if you live majority of the year in that country then we can essentially hook you up with the relevant tax partner in that country. So for Spain, for example, we have a tax partner in Spain. We would hook you up with a tax partner in Spain. We do have tax partners in the US as well, but typically people will just use the accountant that they've been using their whole life in the US.

Shawn Fettig:

That was Tim Martin, founder of Citizen Remote, which assists people moving abroad with every aspect of transitioning, from obtaining a visa to filing taxes, describing the unique tax situation that American expats find themselves in. If you're an American living abroad, the tax system is your shadow. It doesn't matter if you've built a new life in Berlin, run a cafe in Oaxaca or teach yoga on a beach in Bali. Uncle Sam still wants to know what's going on in your wallet. And here's the kicker it's not just your wallet, it's your spouses, your joint accounts, your pension, your rental property and, thanks to FATCA, sometimes even your kid's college savings plan. The US is one of only two countries in the world that does this. The other, eritrea, charges a flat 2% tax on expats and calls it a day. America, in contrast, has built an entire bureaucratic obstacle course for anyone who dares to move away but still hold a passport. Every American citizen, no matter where they live, must file an annual US tax return Form 1040, every year without fail. You have to report your worldwide income salary from a foreign employer, investment dividends from a French brokerage, rent from your flat in Lisbon, gains from selling cryptocurrency on an exchange in Singapore, even if you owe nothing because of exclusions, credits or treaties you still have to file, miss a form and the penalties can be brutal. This is why so many Americans abroad pay $1,000 to $5,000 a year to accountants to file $0 returns.

Shawn Fettig:

The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion FEIE is the lifesaver that most Americans living abroad rely on. This is the one everyone hears about. In 2025, you can exclude up to about $126,500 of earned income from US taxes. Double that if you're married and both working abroad. That means if you earn $126,500 or less abroad in a tax year, then you will pay no taxes to the United States on that income. But there are catches. It applies to earned income only, not pensions, not investment income, not rental profits. You have to prove you live abroad, either by the physical presence test 330 days outside the US in a 12-month period, or the bona fide residency test proving deep ongoing ties to another country. And, yes, you still file a full tax return to claim it. There are also some credits that might be helpful. If you're paying taxes in your new country, you might offset your US bill with a foreign tax credit. This is great if you live somewhere like Germany or Japan where rates are high. It's less helpful in places like Panama or the UAE, where you might owe little to your host country but still be on the hook in the US. It also doesn't automatically apply to certain income types capital gains, for instance so you can still get caught in double taxation.

Shawn Fettig:

The US also has income tax treaties with over 60 countries. In theory, these agreements are meant to prevent you from being taxed twice on the same income, but in practice they're helpful, but they're not a magic wand. Tax treaties can reduce or eliminate US withholding taxes on certain income, like pensions, dividends or royalties, and they can clarify which country gets to tax specific income types, and they sometimes allow you to claim extra deductions or credits. But there is fine print Treaties don't override the requirement to file a US tax return every year, and that's probably the main takeaway here you have to file a tax return even if you made nothing in your new country. Also, some treaty provisions don't apply to all income types. For example, a treaty might protect your pension from double taxation but still leave your capital gains fully exposed, and you have to actively claim treaty benefits, often by filing Form 8833 to disclose your position to the IRS. Skip that step and the treaty doesn't automatically save you, and perhaps most frustrating for Americans abroad. Tax treaties rarely address the reporting requirements that cause the biggest headaches. Fatca, fbar and other information disclosures still apply no matter what, and we'll talk about that next.

Shawn Fettig:

If you live in a country without a treaty, like much of South America or parts of Southeast Asia, you'll rely entirely on the foreign earned income exclusion and foreign tax credits for relief. So I've mentioned FATCA a few times. Let's talk about it. The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act was passed in 2010 to catch offshore tax cheats. In reality, it turned Americans abroad into toxic clients. Fatca forces foreign banks to report American accounts directly to the IRS or face steep penalties on US transactions. Many banks comply. Some refuse to open accounts for Americans at all. The fallout from FATCA is expats being denied mortgages in their new countries or long-standing investment accounts being shut down with little notice and difficulty opening even basic checking accounts in certain countries. If you have foreign assets above certain thresholds, you also have to report them yourself via Form 8938, on top of everything the bank already sends. David Lesperance, founder of Lesperance Associates and leading global expert on tax and immigration processes, explains this in some greater detail explains this in some greater detail.

David Lesperance:

Americans are different than everybody else because of the citizenship-based taxation and a regime called FATCA, which was a beefing up of something a prior regime called the Qualified Intermediary Regime, and so if you're a foreign financial institution whether that's a bank or a brokerage or accommodation thereof you need to do more paperwork for an American than you would for a Kiwi or a Canadian or a Brit or an Aussie.

David Lesperance:

But you can certainly do that. So it's completely legal to have bank accounts, or Americans have bank accounts outside of the United States. They have reporting requirements, which is that FBAR, the Foreign Bank Account Report that is triggered if there is more than $10,000 that flows through that account within a year. But that's simply a filing. If that account made money, had a dividend, for example, there would be US tax liability on that, because the foreign financial institutions sign a form called have you signed a form called the W-9, which gives that financial institution the ability to report, withhold and remit to the US on any income or capital gain on that in that account, and so you will have US tax liability. But, as I mentioned, you may also have tax liability in another jurisdiction, so you will report it and if you have income that's generated at a sufficient amount, you'll pay US tax on that or get credited because you have paid tax on that same account in another jurisdiction.

Shawn Fettig:

If the total balance of all your foreign accounts exceeds $10,000 at any point in the year, you must file an FBAR. This is separate from your tax return. Miss it and penalties can run into five figures or up to 50% of the account balance if the IRS thinks you are willfully ignoring the rules. This covers personal accounts, business accounts, joint accounts with non-US spouses and even accounts you can sign for but don't own. It's not just about money. This system creates a constant low-level anxiety for many Americans abroad. Every business, venture, investment or financial decision comes with the question how will this play with the IRS? And here's the irony the US collects very little tax revenue from most Americans overseas. Many owe nothing. The system isn't about revenue. It's about control and compliance, which is why, eventually, some people stop trying to navigate the maze and start looking for the exit. And that's where renunciation comes in. At some point, after filing your 10th straight $0 tax return from abroad, paying thousands for the privilege and watching your local bank treat you like you just announced you run a cryptocurrency pyramid scheme, the thought creeps in. What if I just ended this pyramid scheme? The thought creeps in. What if I just ended this?

Shawn Fettig:

Renunciation isn't casual. You can't do it on a whim, like switching cell phone providers. It's a deliberate, bureaucratically slow and financially inconvenient process, but for some people it's the only way to make the US government finally let go. Taxes are almost always the first domino Citizenship-based taxation, fatca reporting, fbar penalties it's death by a thousand forms. Even if you're not wealthy, the constant compliance grind can make the blue passport feel more like a shackle than a privilege.

Shawn Fettig:

But there are other drivers. Some people renounce because they literally can't get a mortgage or investment account where they live. Also, dual citizenship laws. Certain countries Singapore and Austria make you choose one or the other. And then philosophy. A smaller group sees renunciation as a statement. The US no longer reflects their values and they want to fully commit to the country they now call home In 2023,. Over 3,200 Americans officially walked away. That's not a mass exodus, but it's a lot more than before FATCA, when the number barely broke. 500 in a typical year. And those are just the ones who follow through. Many more hover in limbo, googling embassy wait times and second passport options. So here's how it works.

Shawn Fettig:

You cannot renounce inside the United States. The State Department insists you show up in person at a US embassy or consulate abroad, passport in hand and make it official. Before you even book an appointment, you must already be a citizen of another country. This is non-negotiable. Whether you got it through ancestry, naturalization or an investment program. You need that second passport ready to flash. The appointment itself can be one session or two, depending on the embassy. Either way, expect a security screening that feels more intense than your last international flight a consular officer making sure you're not being coerced and that you understand exactly what you're giving up and reading and signing the oath of renunciation. In front of that officer.

Shawn Fettig:

Under oath, some people cry, some feel nothing, some people cry, some feel nothing. Some head straight to a bar and you have to pay for it $2,350. By far the highest renunciation fee in the world. Most countries charge little or nothing. The US raised it from $450 in 2014, claiming administration costs. Critics call it a deterrent. Either way, you'll pay it, usually right there at the embassy.

Shawn Fettig:

Once you've sworn the oath and paid the fee, your case goes to Washington DC for final approval and when that's done, you receive your Certificate of Loss of Nationality, the single piece of paper proving you are no longer American. You'll need it for future tax filings, visa applications and banking. From that moment, you're officially out. Well, except for one last date with the IRS. And this is where things get more interesting and potentially expensive, because the US has one final mechanism to make sure they get their pound of flesh. So you've signed the oath, handed over the passport and paid $2,350 for the privilege of no longer being an American. You might think the IRS would send you on your way with a handshake and a good luck, but no. Instead, they've got one last trick, the exit tax, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's the IRS equivalent of rummaging through your suitcase on the way out to make sure you're not sneaking away with anything untaxed.

Shawn Fettig:

But not everyone pays the exit tax. First, the IRS decides whether you qualify as a covered expatriate. This label is less about glamour and more about whether they can squeeze you one last time. About glamour and more about whether they can squeeze you one last time. You're considered covered.

Shawn Fettig:

If you meet any of these, your average annual US income tax bill over the last five years is over roughly $200,000. That's a 2025 figure. That's tax owed, not your income and or your net worth is $2 million or more, counting everything you own anywhere in the world House, investments, retirement accounts, art crypto, the vintage guitar you plan to sell someday, and or you haven't filed US taxes for the last five years and can't certify that you've been fully compliant. This is the trap that catches a lot of otherwise middle-class expats. If you meet even one of these congratulations, you're covered, which means you're going to pay an exit tax. This is Basil Mohr-Elzeki, managing partner at Henley Partners, who specializes in helping people obtain residence and citizenship by investment, explaining how one's personal assets and wealth can impact exit tax and play into a decision to renounce citizenship.

Basil Mohr-Elzeki:

Sometimes what Americans do is, if they're entrepreneurs and they have a large liquidity event, they may want to consider analyzing their exit tax and renouncing their US citizenship, if it's their goal and if it's financially beneficial for them. So sometimes we'll make an introduction to a lawyer that would do an exit tax analysis to see if it's worth it financially for them to renounce their US citizenship and obtain another one. Now they can't renounce their citizenship without obtaining another one, so usually it's the citizenship that needs to be obtained the alternative before they're able to renounce your US. So sometimes there can be situations at a large scale that can benefit applicants but I would say 9.5 times out of 10, this doesn't happen just because the exit tax can be quite strict and rigorous.

Shawn Fettig:

The exit tax works like this the IRS imagines you sold every asset you own the day before. You renounced Stocks, sold House, sold, business liquidated Then they tax you on the imaginary gains. You do get a one-time exclusion, about $821,000 in 2025. That's the portion of gains they ignore before calculating the tax bill. After that, the standard capital gains rates apply. So let's say you own a home in Spain, you have US retirement accounts and you have investments, and we can imagine that your gains might total something around $900,000. Subtract the $821,000 exclusion and you owe tax on the remaining $79,000, probably somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000. Sounds simple enough until you factor in certain rules for pensions, trusts and jointly owned property. This is where the IRS can get creative. Owned property this is where the IRS can get creative. And here's a fun add-on If you're a covered expatriate and you give a US citizen a big gift or inheritance later, they might owea 40% tax on it. So even after you're gone, your exit can still reach back and complicate your family's finances, even if you're not rich.

Shawn Fettig:

The quickest way to land in covered territory and owe an exit tax is failing the five-year compliance test. You must have filed complete and correct US tax returns for the five years before you renounce no gaps. No, I didn't think I had to file. If you can't sign Form 8854, the IRS's expatriation information statement under penalty of perjury, saying you've been compliant, you're covered by default. And yes, form 8854 is as much fun as it sounds. But people who plan this carefully, sometimes a year or more in advance, can reduce or even avoid the exit tax. That might mean getting compliant with back filings before starting the renunciation process, or shifting or liquidating certain assets or timing the renunciation for a year when your gains or tax liability will be lower. But if you go in cold without a tax lawyer or expat CPA who's done this before, you're basically playing financial Jenga with the IRS. Once you've cleared the exit tax hurdle or confirmed you're not covered, you're free. Except for one last question what happens to the benefits you've spent a lifetime paying into, like Social Security and Medicare? So let's start with the one most people care about, because, let's face it, groceries aren't getting cheaper anywhere.

Shawn Fettig:

Social security Renouncing your citizenship doesn't automatically cut you off from social security. If you've worked at least 10 years in the US and paid into the system, you've earned those benefits. You can still get them abroad with conditions when you live matters. If you're in a country with a US tax treaty, like Canada, the UK, germany or Australia, you can usually receive full payments. If you're not, the US may withhold about 25% of your benefit. That's not small, especially if your retirement budget is tight. If you split your career between the US and another country, a totalization agreement can combine your work credits so you qualify for benefits in one or both systems. So imagine you worked eight years in the US and seven in France Separately. That's not enough for full retirement benefits in either country Together. Thanks to the agreement, you may qualify in both. It's worth checking whether your future or current home country has one of these agreements. They can also help you avoid paying Social Security taxes twice if you work abroad before renouncing.

Shawn Fettig:

Even if you are eligible, getting Social Security payments abroad isn't always friction-free. You may have to fill out periodic forms proving you're alive really and keep an account in a bank that can accept US government direct deposits. Some countries don't have them and notify the Social Security Administration of any address changes promptly or risk suspended payments. Okay, medicare. Here's where the optimism dies. Medicare doesn't follow you abroad, even if you qualify through your US work history. It won't pay for hospital stays, doctor visits or prescriptions outside the country, except for rare emergencies near US borders. If you renounce, you may not be able to keep Medicare coverage at all. And if you skip enrolling when you're first eligible usually at 65, but later move back to the US, you could face steep permanent penalties. So this forces a choice Keep paying Part B premiums while living abroad, just in case you return someday, or drop it, save the money and commit to your new country's health care system. Either way, it's a decision you should make before you sign that oath of renunciation, not after Other things you should consider.

Shawn Fettig:

Renunciation isn't just about benefits, it's about rights. You won't get back. So voting in US elections, no more Entering the US freely. You'll now need a visa like any other foreign national Petitioning to bring relatives to the US under family immigration rules and access to certain government jobs, grants and contracts. You can still visit, but your visa application can be denied, and in today's America that's increasingly likely. And no, there's no undo button. Once you renounce, you're out. So, yes, you can still collect some benefits, but you're also stepping away from a safety net you might have assumed would always be there, which means renunciation isn't just a tax decision. It's a long-term life decision, and that's where we'll wrap this episode and this series With the reality check of what it truly means to walk away and why, for some, it's worth it anyway.

Shawn Fettig:

When you strip away the paperwork, the legal jargon and the forms with names like DS-4080, renouncing US citizenship comes down to one question Do you want out badly enough to pay the price financially, bureaucratically and personally? Because the truth is, for most people this starts with taxes, the filings, the forms, the endless reporting, the sense that, no matter how far you move, the IRS is always leaning over your shoulder. That's the friction that pushes people toward the embassy door. But once you step inside, it's no longer about taxes, it's about finality. Handing in the passport means more than ending your annual date with Form 1040. It's cutting the last legal tie to the country you were born into or chose once upon a time. It's deciding that your real home, your political life and your financial life are all somewhere else. Now, for some that's freedom. The relief is instant. For others, it's a bittersweet exchange, gaining clarity in one part of life while losing options in another. And for many, the complexity and cost mean they'll keep one foot in each world, filing every year, sighing over the absurdity and getting on with their lives. Renunciation isn't the right move for everyone, but if you're living abroad dreading tax season like it's an annual audit of your soul it's worth understanding what the exit button really does, because it's not a fantasy, it's a real legal option and more people are taking it. If you do it, you'll never forget the moment you hand over that passport, not because it's emotional though it might be, but because it's the day you turned your relationship with America from complicated to officially over. So, whether you stay, leave or hover in between, just make sure you're the one making the choice, not the system.

Shawn Fettig:

I'm going to leave you with some thoughts from the experts and expats that have contributed to this series over the past 12 weeks about what has motivated them to move, what they love about where they live and how they approach the idea of living abroad. First, you'll hear from Matt Wilson, co-founder of Under 30 Experiences, about how he gradually evolved from being a short-term traveler to an expat. Then Karen McCann, author and creator of the blog Enjoy Living Abroad, about discovering Spain and why she fell in love with it. Then Richard McCall, journalist and host of the Columbia Calling podcast about his permanent move to Colombia. Tim Leffel, award-winning author and editor of the Perceptive Travel magazine, about living in Mexico. Then Tim Marting, founder of Citizen Remote, who you heard from at the top of this episode, about what you'll learn traveling and living abroad. And finally, adrian Leeds, real estate consultant in France, featured regularly in House Hunters International, about the attitude she embraces. That has fueled her approach to living abroad and making necessary changes based not in fear but in living in the moment.

Matt Wilson:

When you've never been anywhere. You want to go to all the places. You just say yes to everything. And I can remember my backpacker days where I would show up in a hostel and someone would say, okay, I'm going up to, I'm in Costa Rica, right, and I'm going up to Nicaragua. I was like, okay, cool, my passport works there, I'm going to come. So we go to Nicaragua, okay, well, first, yeah, you stop off at the Ometepe volcano, right, and then you get to San Juan del Sur, right. And then somebody says, well, I'm going up to Granada. And so, yeah, so you go to Granada. And then, okay, we might skip through Managua because maybe it's not so safe, but then we're going to Leon, and Leon's really amazing.

Matt Wilson:

You got to check this place out, and so what I ended up doing was burning myself out, trying to keep up that pace, because, well, if you have a week off or two weeks off, sure you can travel with that and try to check the boxes and see as many places as possible. And as social media started to rise, right, everybody wants to have their stories, be really active and get lots of pictures in front of lots of famous tourist destinations, and that's all well and good, but I was traveling with my laptop and I needed stable internet connection, which at that time Nicaragua was not the best at, and, um, you know, I needed actual time to sit and work. So then I would adjust my schedule to all right, I'm going to set up shop during the week and then I will do the actual traveling, the going from point A to point B on the weekends, and then I'll get to my next location, I'll get settled, and then I'll have that five days to go to the local coffee shop and work, or have my lunch spot and get to know the wait staff, or all right, I have my place where I will go and work out, or I'll have a place where I'll go for a drink in the evening, and so you kind of develop that local routine and that you can do that, just staying in a week in a place. And so I eventually fell in love with kind of long-term travel, if you will, and so I decided, okay, costa Rica, it's a really amazing place for me.

Matt Wilson:

So first I stayed a month, and then I stayed for three months, and then you have to start doing your border runs and, yeah, then I was staying six months, so I never actually had to call my mom and say, hey, move to Costa Rica, although she knew that I didn't have a residence in New York any longer. But yeah, I just I fell in love with the slow travel pace and I think it's really interesting that that trend is coming back in Gen Z.

Karen McCann:

Well, I just stumbled across it. It really wasn't in my game plan at all. But about gosh. 25 years ago now, some friends of ours had a timeshare in southern Spain and invited us to join them there, and we really didn't have Spain on our radar. My husband and I we thought well, ok, sure we'll pop in and visit them. We were going to Italy to meet up with some other friends. We went to Spain and we just fell in love with it.

Karen McCann:

Spain feeds into our movie concept of Europe. It still has the gorgeous old architecture and these wonderful festivals and a lifestyle that is so different from the American lifestyle. You really know you're in a foreign place. Even now, 25 years later, when things have gotten considerably more modernized and more into the global way of doing things, it has such character that's all its own. So we went back many times for visits and finally decided that, since my husband had taken early retirement, we had this really flexible schedule. I'm a writer, so I never know if I'm working or not. I sort of always am, always am not. So we thought we would live in Seville for a year and get it out of our system. That was 25 years ago and we're still there.

Richard McColl:

You know what? Life has been absolutely great since moving here in 2007. Peaks and troughs, as always, but again, that's everywhere and I would recommend it to anyone who's a little bit more well. I think you want to be a little bit more adventurous, because Colombia does have its reputation, it does have its stigma, but if you're coming here to do your own thing, to participate in what I would say is society not just to be someone completely isolated from the reality in Colombia, but to actually participate in the community in which you live, the society in which you want to move around in then you're going to really benefit and, I think, grow as a person, because Colombia has been so divorced from the idea not only of immigration to Colombia, but also from international tourism.

Tim Leffel:

Mexico is just close and easy in terms of air connections, it's really good and the food's really good, which is not true in some Central American nations, for instance. So all of that was part of it. It's culturally interesting. It has its own distinct culture, but in the end it was partly economic and partly just convenience, because it's so easy to get back and forth. But one of the great things about Mexico is you've got so many choices in terms of geography and climate and whatever. And we live in Guanajuato, which is about 6,000 feet in altitude and 6,500 depending on where you are in the hills, but it stays pretty nice all year. You know the weather's sunny, but it's fairly cool and doesn't get all that hot, and so it's. You know, part of all that kind of played into it, but it just turned out to be this was the best choice.

Tim Marting:

I mean there was a massive rise. I mean I know at Citizen Remote we saw an insane amount of traffic and inquiries, I think the day after the election. So that's a big one for Americans right now. But I mean before the election, you know, there were still many, many people looking to relocate abroad and I think a lot of people are just interested in, you know, a change of pace, experiencing a different culture, and that's why I did it many, many years ago.

Tim Marting:

I was just interested personally and it's a great big world out there and there's a lot of beautiful areas, and I decided, you know, I can live my whole life in the US and I have my family there. I go visit them all the time. I love it in the US, but also, you know, you only have one life, so why not see? You know, what there is to see in this great big world and experience different cultures and learn a little bit, and I have absolutely loved it.

Tim Marting:

I always say this is that if you do pursue a life abroad, you're going to find one of two things You're going to find you absolutely love it and never want to stop, or you're going to find, okay, maybe I appreciate my home country a little more than I thought. Maybe I took a few things for granted back home that I really do like the culture of my home country and you didn't realize that as much without experiencing that time abroad. And so I think when people are interested in relocating abroad, it usually falls into one of those categories of they're adventurous, they want to check out a new culture, they want to relocate to a warm area that isn't, you know, english speaking or something like that, or maybe they're just fed up with their current, whether it be administration or home life, and so people have a whole different bunch of reasons that they might want to relocate abroad, and we help with all of them.

Adrian Leeds:

Well, I don't live in fear. I'm not a what-if-this and a what-if-that person. I believe that fear is an absolutely ridiculous emotion that is based on your thoughts that are illusory. The future never actually comes right. It's only what you think in your mind will happen, but isn't real. And so as long as you live in the present moment and you can really eliminate fear completely and you deal with your life as it presents itself, right, I think France and Europe is an amazing place. As a matter of fact, you see how they're getting stronger in order to combat what's happening in the us with, you know, donald trump and all of his tariffs and other decisions, where the eu is now having to regroup, get strong, be able to combat that, and I think that's positive. I think that's positive. I think that's really a plus factor.

Shawn Fettig:

Over the course of this series we've walked the map together. We've explored the easy escapes of Portugal, spain and Latvia. We've sipped coffee in Parisian cafes and run cost-of-living math in New Zealand. We've peeked into the quieter corners of Costa Rica and the bustling streets of Vancouver. We've navigated residency permits, health care systems, tax codes and the strange beauty of a culture that isn't our own. And now, here at the end, we've looked at the ultimate decision cutting the last legal tie to the United States through renunciation. If you've been with me from episode one, you know leaving America was never just a travel guide. It's been a blueprint for autonomy, for building a life that works for you wherever you choose to live it, because in uncertain times, having options isn't just nice, it's necessary. We've seen how democracies wobble, economies shift, climates change. We've talked about designing a life that can flex when the ground moves, whether that's keeping dual citizenship in France, buying a beach bungalow in Dominica or going all-in on a rural village in the south of Italy. Some of you listening will keep one foot in each world a US passport in one hand, a residency permit or even citizenship in the other. Others will leap completely, cutting that final cord, and many will land somewhere in between, knowing that the door is open if they ever need to step through it.

Shawn Fettig:

Leaving America isn't about rejecting your past. It's about expanding your future. It's saying I get to choose where my life happens, and in a time when so much feels out of our control, that's no small thing. If you've been thinking about it, even idly, in the recesses of your mind, you've already started the process. The rest is planning, patience and a willingness to imagine a different version of your life. The truth is there's no perfect place, but there are places where you will feel more at home, more secure, more yourself, and those are worth finding.

Shawn Fettig:

In uncertain times, hope is a plan, and whether your plan keeps you here takes you to the jungles of Honduras, an island in the Philippines, a mountaintop in New Zealand, a side street in Lisbon or a quiet coastal town in Ireland. The power to make it yours is still yours. I want to thank all of my guests that have contributed to this series. I want to thank all of the listeners that have walked this road with me, and, wherever you land, I hope you make it home. This has been Leaving America, because sometimes home isn't where you started. Thank you.

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Shawn C. Fettig

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