The Art of Adjusting® Podcast

Episode #83 - Rules Of The Road For Adjusters: Fault, Foreseeability, And Last Clear Chance

• William Auten & Chantal Roberts • Season 3 • Episode 83

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We rethink “rules of the road” from an adjuster’s view, showing why left-hand turns aren’t always at fault, how point of impact changes everything, and when last clear chance controls the outcome. Practical field tips help you collect better evidence, weigh foreseeability, and assign fair liability.

• left-hand turns, control of the intersection, point of impact
• duty to yield, duty of reasonable care, last clear chance
• comparative negligence across merges, passes, and hills
• weather and visibility shaping foreseeability and speed choice
• truck wide-right turns and squeeze hazards
• evidence gathering using cameras, debris, skid marks, telematics
• emergency vehicles, yielding protocols, municipal immunities
• four-way stop logic and practical right-of-way choices
• why tickets don’t decide liability and how to argue fault
• calls for listener topics, guests, and feedback on platform of choice

Please like, follow, subscribe, share, and comment so the algorithm picks us up and we can grow. If you listen on Spotify, drop your comments on LinkedIn. For independent adjusting services, visit www.autin.claims and use the contact us tab to join our roster. Give us five stars and a review.


For more insights, you might consider a career in liability adjusting or if you're searching for reliable adjusting services, visit Auten Claims Management.

To explore more about Chantal Roberts and her contributions to the industry, visit CMR Consulting.

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William Auten:

Hello, I'm Bill Auten of Auten Claims Management.

Chantal Roberts:

I'm Chantel Roberts of CMR Consulting, and welcome to the Art of Adjusting podcast.

William Auten:

Today we're going to talk about life as an insurance adjuster from the perspective of property, auto, liability, or workers' compensation adjusters. Our goal is to bring interesting topics in the world of claims adjusting to people who are working as an adjuster now and to people who are considering a career as a claims adjuster. Hi, Bill. Hey Chantel, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you. How are you doing? Pretty good. I can't believe it's December already before we know what it's going to be 2026.

Chantal Roberts:

That is a little weird for me because I have to tell you, we we just stopped or we just finished up watching Downton Abbey, and it ends on January 1st, 1926. So a hundred years ago, basically. And I'm like, wow, look at how many much things have changed. And yet, how many things don't change? Because this leads us to the topic of the rules of the road. Because cars were new then. And uh there's this story, and I have no idea if it's true or not, but like the very first car accident in the United States was in Ohio because and you know, two people, the only two cars in Ohio happen to hit one another, and you're like, how does that even happen? So I don't know if that really happened or not, but we're gonna talk about the rules of the road today, and I'll tell you why. The the the reason is when I facilitate CPCU 530, I give an example when we're talking about liability, about a car accident, and I show the uh people who are in the tests or you know, that I'm facilitating the conversations with, I show them a police report. Um, and then I say who's at fault and I'll show them a picture. And every single time they say it's the person making the left-hand turn. And I of course I'd love to have an auto adjuster in this particular class with me to see what she would say, but every single time it's a left-hand turn, and it's not necessarily so I think that we should go ahead and go over all, well, not all, but the majority of our rules of the road. And um, you know, like those four-way stop things, right? Um, those get a little weird.

William Auten:

Well, left-hand turns, we can we could probably talk the entire episode just about left-hand turns. They're a little more complicated than uh than any other uh maneuver you're gonna make because you've gotta sit and you've got to wait for traffic to clear. Now, if you're in an area where there's uh four lanes, let's say you've got to look for traffic to clear from both of those lanes coming uh uh coming towards you. Um there's an intersection near me where there's five lanes because there's a turn lane also, and there happens to be a curve and a hill there. So when there are cars in the turn lane, they're blocking the view of anything else coming, um coming from the other way. It's a bad intersection, and probably once a month I go through that intersection after there's been an accident. So that's a problem. And as you're approaching an intersection like that, knowing that there may be cars ahead of you turning left, you do have a you also have a duty to to evade if if there is a situation where someone turns in front of you and didn't see you because of the road conditions, because there was other cars, maybe a a big semi-tractor trailer in the left-hand turn lane blocking the view. Exactly. You've got to you've gotta be conscious about the fact that you're approaching that intersection and the people turning left may not see you.

Chantal Roberts:

Yes. And um, so and I want to talk about duties real quick, um, because it is everyone's duty here that is listening to like, follow, subscribe, and share on YouTube and Spotify and like bring a friend uh so we can get more listeners because it helps the oh comment too, because it totally helps the algorithm pick us up and then we become more popular and uh our you know our heads would get even bigger.

William Auten:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Chantal Roberts:

I do want to mention that.

William Auten:

So yeah, and if you and if you share it, we'll be extra happy.

Chantal Roberts:

Oh, we will be extra happy. We might even like if you share it and then comment that you've shared it, we may actually do you call out or something. I don't know. Yeah, so yes, your duty to yield, and and this is the part that I I think the people who are participating in the CPCU 530, which is the uh the legal environment for claims or for for insurance. It's not just claims, the legal environment for for insurance. So, hey, take go ahead and get your CPCU guys, at least take 530 facilitation with me, and uh you'll learn all sorts of cool stuff. But duty to yield. I think this pretty much encompasses the majority of of what gets my goat about this sort of thing, because yes, you are making a left-hand turn, and what I show the people in the facilitation classes, I show them three pictures. Uh, one is the the picture of a car, a blue car, with the damage on the passenger rear quarter panel. And they will the the participants will still say, Oh no, it's the blue car's fault. And I'm like, no, it's not, because that blue car had control of the intersection. And it's like it's a new concept to them. So I thought we might talk about that a little bit. Uh, you know, like this duty to yield. Uh, just because you've got the right of way doesn't mean you continue barreling down the road.

William Auten:

Right. There um there could be a situation where a vehicle is just stopped in front of you. Uh-huh. Uh, that doesn't, and and you you can't just say, Well, I have the right of way. I think it's through here.

Chantal Roberts:

Right, right. I mean, you know better than that.

William Auten:

Yeah. And and a car turning left usually is going pretty slow. And if it gets all the way through that intersection and you tag the the passenger side rear corner of it, that tells me that you had plenty of time to let off the gas, hit the brakes. Absolutely. Uh maybe relax your speed a little bit to avoid a collision.

Chantal Roberts:

Right.

William Auten:

Or you grip the wheel, you hit you hit the accelerator, and you said something along the lines of you son of a blap. Then uh collision, uh the collision occurred after that. But uh yeah, I've I've just um just handled a case like that, where the rear passenger side of a vehicle was hit. Uh they they had made it through the intersection. There was a hill, the car crested the hill. As our guy was turning left, yes, um, the driver of the other vehicle must have got confused because the collision actually took place in the driveway, uh, not in the road. So whatever they were doing, I don't know. They thought they were being evasive or but they misjudged whatever, and it the the physical collision took place well off the road. Right. Uh so off the you know the white line.

Chantal Roberts:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, and you do have that continuing duty of reasonable care, and you had mentioned this, and you're mentioning hills, and I think that's also something that is particularly important. And and I this isn't like a driving course that we're talking about. We're talking about assessing liability and automobile claims. But if you are insured or your claimant uh is sitting there going, look, that I was coming up a hill, I was topping the hill, and this guy was suddenly in front of me. Is it the person that hit the other car's fault, or is it the person who was turning's fault? Uh, you kind of have to look at that because in your duty of reasonable care, if you know that you're coming up, even if, let's say, I'm gonna go visit Bill, I don't know where he lives, I don't know what the streets are like, but if I see a hill, I'm gonna kind of slow down when I'm getting ready to top it because I don't know. There could be a total traffic jam right over the crest, and I'm gonna rear in someone. Uh, does that mean that I go five miles an hour? Absolutely not, because that isn't driving with do you know reasonable care either. You know, it's like having grandma on the on the freeway.

William Auten:

We h we live in an area uh heavily populated by Mennonites and Amish folks, and they are always in their carriages with the horse-drawn carriages, and and it's a hilly area. And you come over a hill, you don't know if there's gonna be a you know a wagon full of kids to buy a horse uh on the other side of that hill. So you really have to have your wits about you to to make sure that you're being safe, you know, and that you have an opportunity to slow or break when you need to. And that's really what we're talking about in this left-hand turn scenario. Um if and the example I gave was several lanes that maybe blocked where your view is blocked. I've had other claims that was just it was just two lanes, and um our guy was turning left, and the the the car across the way was also turning left. So they both were kind of like turning left. Well, our guy turns left, this motorcycle comes around, yeah. The other car turning, turning left, and our guy, of course, didn't see him until he was flying over the hood of the the truck.

Chantal Roberts:

Right.

William Auten:

And um that you know it's a horrible accident, but that can happen too.

Chantal Roberts:

And um in this particular instance, I would say that it's the motorcycle's fault for veering around at the you know, the other car um at a speed.

William Auten:

So if you look at the decision making that was going on between all the let's say these three vehicles, okay? We've got one headed north turning left and one headed south turning left, and both those folks um can tell that their path is clear because each of them have their signals on and they both know that they're gonna be turning left fairly safe. And then you got a motorcyclist who makes a decision to go around that at a at an accelerated speed, um, enough to to cause the accident that happened here, which was very bad. And um so you know who who made the ma the the poorest decision of those three people? And you'd have to say it'd be the motorcycle because he did not clearly did not see what was ahead of the car in front of him.

Chantal Roberts:

Right.

William Auten:

Um and he would have to assume that if hit the car ahead of him was able to make a left-hand turn, then possibly there was one in front of him also making a left-hand turn.

Chantal Roberts:

Or there was oncoming laws. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and excuse me, uh another and I don't know where the the traffic the the damage was on your particular example, but in my example, it does involve a motorcycle as well. But I show the the second picture that I show is where the damage is on the passenger side door. Well, I mean, that's like smack dab in the middle of the car. So maybe both of them had a little bit of a duty. I mean, obviously, we already have one car that's in the intersection, that's the left car. And then, of course, the but the car the through car has the right of way. So, of course, I always hate comparative negligence and you know 60, 70, 30, 40 kind of percentage. But I mean, maybe this is what we do too.

William Auten:

Um, but you still seem arbitrary sometimes, but um it to me the best way to get at a number is to ask to to to poll people and get their opinions. I don't know how else you um otherwise you're just like the dictator. It's you know, this is what I declare, it's a 60-40 situation, and um our guy is only 40% liable. Well, what's that based on? And you know, yeah. Um and if you taking the motorcycle example I just gave, where you've got these three individuals, I would say that the the the one making the left left hand turn did nothing wrong. They were just turning left. Um our guy turning left. Could he have uh maybe paid a little more attention to what might have been behind that other vehicle? Possibly.

Chantal Roberts:

He's supposed to be because he can't make a left left left hand turn with until it's clear. Right.

William Auten:

Um but could he anticipate that the motorcycle would come around the shoulder and um you know, and then you make a good point about point of impact. Um, if he had hit squarely in the center of our our guy's vehicle, that tells you one thing. If it was the passenger right front corner, that would tell you a little more. If it was the center of the passenger door, that tells you a lot more. And if it was the if it was the back corner of the truck, uh passenger side, that tells you a lot more, too. That maybe that motorcycle had plenty of time to to kind of veer or avoid the collision.

Chantal Roberts:

And I feel that that right there, what you said was the points of impact, is important. I feel that that's the point that isn't stressed enough with our new adjusters when they are learning auto liability and learning how to determine liability. I I feel because, for example, uh, if you get the police report, and all claims team leaders will say, Oh, get the police report and all and and that sort of thing, uh, it will naturally put the fault at the person making the left-hand turn. But that doesn't mean he's negligent for the loss. We've we've got to look at a lot of different things, uh, such as the due uh the damages. Maybe there's a camera on the you know, polls that we can get a copy of. We've talked about that. You and I've talked about all the other types of evidence that we can gather. But point of impact used to be a huge thing when I was handling auto liability, and it does not seem to be stressed enough now. I don't know if you found the same thing or in talking with other adjusters.

William Auten:

Um I don't find that it's ignored. Uh we tend to raise it when we need to, um, because I think it's an important issue. Um and we have uh we do have something called the last last clear chance doctrine.

Chantal Roberts:

Yes. Thank you. That's the other thing. Yeah.

William Auten:

And and when you can look at the when you look at the point of impact, you can ask yourself, did the person who struck the other car uh have an opportunity to avoid it? And um they can say, well, you know, they they shouldn't have turned left in front of me. So that's how it happened. But you know, you saw them there and you had time. Um and you can how do you know they had time? You can do accident reconstruction that will tell you how much time they actually had. Uh we had a case involving a tractor trailer recently, and the um the trail the the truck was making a kind of a tight right hand turn. The a passenger vehicle was in the left lane and it had pulled up. There was a there's there's a stop line that's way far back um in the left lane because trucks typically make this left-hand turn and their back of the trailer kicks out as they go out around this turn, and if there's a car there, it will hit them. So this car was over that white line, and it was stopped in an area where it shouldn't have been because of you know this scenario. Um, so when the the truck started to make their turn, uh the back swiped the car. Um, it was a very low impact claim. We've talked about low imp uh you know minimal damage and low impact um missed claims, right?

Chantal Roberts:

Yeah, um yeah, minor impact uh wait. See, I call it minor, oh um soft tissue, minor impact, soft tissue, because I call it list low impact soft tissue. But yes, anyway, anyway. Go look up that episode, it's something.

William Auten:

Um, somewhere. It's it's I think one of our first or second ones together. But the um um so in that case, it was uh low impact, minor injuries. They sued for millions of dollars, whatever, you know. Uh, but um, but in that case, you can say, okay, who had the last clear chance there? So the truck driver probably knew or should have known that the intersection was set up in a way to make sure cars were not in that too far advanced in that left lane. Uh that that car that was there should not have been there. Um, both of them should have had an awareness of some sort that the lane was set up this way for a reason. And um so who who in that scenario had the last clear chance? Was it the truck driver or the car? The car was stopped at the lake. They were in the wrong spot, but they were stopped. It was the forward motion of the truck that that's the only thing that could have prevented that if is if that truck waited or honked their horn or told the this person, hey, look out, you know. Um it was 10 o'clock at night. There were streetlights, but it was nighttime. Um now one of the things that we did there, which is not really relevant to how the accident occurred, but we had a very clear window of of a security camera image video of this this accident take place. So we could actually see how fast the truck was going. And they claimed that it was going at an excessive speed. It wasn't hard to figure out how fast it was going. Right, making a left or right hand turn. The the length of the truck is you know a certain distance, uh distance, and then you can measure the distance between maybe a light pole and a marker assign or something like that. And then you time how long it takes that truck to pass, and you can figure out the speed of the truck. And we calculated it was less than 17 or 18 miles an hour to make it through this intersection.

Chantal Roberts:

Anyway, uh that's an aside that doesn't really relate to uh last clear chance rule, but it's uh it does actually, because and and it also, and what I'm also hearing as I'm as I'm trying to find it, I think it's gonna be like episode like 26 or 20 or something like that, because I've started keeping track of those sorts of things on here. Uh but uh one of the things that you can look at again as adjusters when you are looking to determine liability is where the uh little pieces of metal are, which again is the reason why you've got to begin your investigation immediately because that stuff gets swept up. But you can also look at the um skid marks, right? Uh it is episode 26 exactly. Yeah, episode 26 exactly. So if you go back to episode 26, we talk about mist, uh, which is minor impact low or minor impacts off tissue. And then I was I was also looking at uh episode 40, which uh we were talking about determining liability. Uh and then so if you need talking about determining liability, like who's who's negligent, who's at fault, and all that, that's episode 40 anyway. But I I totally get that. And one of the things that comes up that I experienced because I used I kind of got my breaking in as an insurance adjuster with semitractor trailer rig accidents, is that whole right hand squeeze thing, you know, because as you were talking about, a semitractor trailer rig, and if you've never handled semi-tractor trailer rig losses, you uh and you're not familiar with them, they make wide turns, specifically right-hand turns, because they have a a long box that's I don't know, 26, 34, 54 feet long, and it doesn't turn. Um, but it's on what's called a fifth wheel, and that's where it turns. So the tractor turns, and so to get this big old trailer around this sharp curve, it does have to swing wide. And a lot of people not realizing this, common drivers not realizing this, will speed up, thinking, oh, the driver's going straight, even though they've got a blinker on, and they get hit. Who's at fault? I'm always going to say it was the person who is sneaking up on the right hand side because you should know there's they've got placards on the back of their truck, you know, caution, you know, wide right-hand turns and things like that. And another thing that an adjuster I think needs to be looking at when we're talking about determining liability and the rules of the road and everything, pay attention to the signs on the road. Uh I was working with a uh guy once who was trying to determine liability and he just couldn't. I mean, it was like a he said, she said deal, and he uh, you know, was going back and forth on liability and everything. And the insured went back to the scene of the accident and asked the insured was driving quite dangerously, he was videotaping the on his phone the uh intersection that was that he was going through when this accident occurred. And because the question was, did the guy sideswipe me or did I sideswipe the guy? And you couldn't tell by the physical damage. And as the insured was driving through this, this it was a merge intersection, of course, then what we saw was a sign that alerted the people who had the right of way, hey, there's going to be people merging. And I said, There is your example right there. Then I would say that it's 100% your insured's fault because he while he has the right of way, and while that other person has the duty and to exercise reasonable care to merge correctly, I mean, he knows that our insured who's going straight knows that someone's gonna be merging. So right of way to slow down.

William Auten:

Right of way never equals permission to crash.

Chantal Roberts:

Exactly. I think that's the best way to say it.

William Auten:

Yeah. And that that has um that relates to your duty of care as a driver. So, yeah, one person has a duty of care to merge when they know it's clear, uh, the other person has a duty of care to back off if they have an opportunity to um to avoid a collision. Right. And then you get into comparative and and blah blah blah. We can talk about different states and how that applies, but that would just confuse things.

Chantal Roberts:

And the guy ended up giving the insured like 60% um at fault. Uh, and I'm like, fine, you know, he goes, I don't want to like totally make it 100% as well because he's our insured, and I'm like, fine, whatever I would, but meh. Um, but but this is a this is another thing. Let's talk about, you know, like passing and everything. Um you gotta pass when it's safe to pass, not just just because you're pissed off that there's a minonite in front of you or, you know, whatever. Um, and like I said, there's this right-hand squeeze uh that that I was talking about. And I think it kind of closely relates to that improper lane usage, which you you had said earlier, like how did this accident happen all the way off the the white lines? Right. Uh so yeah.

William Auten:

So um here's another uh when it comes to passing, um, and making sure it's clear, you are not you can't just check for oncoming vehicles in the opposite lane of travel. You also have to make sure that nobody that you're passing intends to make a left-hand turn. Right. Because if they were to do that, you would hit them as they made their left-hand turn. Exactly. So um, watch for turn signals. Another thing, and I've I almost witnessed what would have been, had to have been a fatal accident. Uh there was a tractor trailer coming up a hill, and there was a line of cars behind it. There was a car in front of me approaching the highway. And so this was a 55 mile an hour road we were approaching. And the guy in front of me was gonna make a right hand turn. As he started his right hand turn, this this vehicle behind the the semi pulled out to pass it. And um they almost hit each other. Uh luckily the guy in front of me had the wherewithal to use his last clear chance skills and uh veered to the right off the shoulder as he was uh honking his horn and probably using some hand signals, spouting some prayers toward the individual. Um I mean, so you gotta be aware of like situational awareness is really a thing, and and it not only applies to the cars that are headed towards you, uh opposing traffic, it's also cars, tractors, pedestrians that may be entering the roadway from a driveway or another road or whatever.

Chantal Roberts:

Yes, yes, because we haven't even talked about that, people like entering from their driveways or merging or what have you. Um, I see this every once in a while, and and God knows I do it. Uh, and it is usually when I don't know where I'm going or something, and then GPS is like, you're supposed to be exiting now. And I'm like, oh, well, I have out-of-state plates. That's okay, I can go. And you know, that's cutting uh three lanes across to get to your exit. Of course, that's improper lane usage, and we're not supposed to do that. And if I were to hit anybody, then yeah, I would be at fault. So um, you know, we've we've got to pay attention. And if I were doing that and someone was was you right behind me, they should be slamming on their brakes too. Because just because they have the right of way and I'm an idiot because I'm out of state doesn't mean they get to have an accident.

William Auten:

There are many accidents where I've talked to people and they they literally had no idea how it happened. Um the the motorcycle claim I mentioned earlier, uh he never saw the guy. All he he felt an impact and he saw a flash of something dark going over the hood, and he he didn't realize what happened until he stopped, got his bearings, looked around, and and then got out and saw a motorcycle at the you know at the front of his vehicle. Yeah, and um, but that's not always the case.

Chantal Roberts:

No.

William Auten:

Uh any of the accidents that you see, I could see it coming. I could see, you know, if you could see it coming.

Chantal Roberts:

If you can see it coming, you need to avoid it.

William Auten:

And you need to at least demonstrate that you tried.

Chantal Roberts:

Yes. Okay, so this happens to be. In it, uh, I'm gonna go left field just for a second. This happens to be an unpopular kind of liability choice, but slip and falls. If you saw the water on the floor, don't step in it and slip.

William Auten:

Right.

Chantal Roberts:

You had the last clear duty to avoid this. Yep. And then conversely, if water just got there and we didn't know about it as the landlord or whatever, we also cannot be held that responsible, that responsible, because oh, I don't know. I mean, we've got a duty to clean it up, but we we need to know about it.

William Auten:

And notice, yeah, yeah.

Chantal Roberts:

Yeah, we have to have notice. So um, you know, there's there's there's a couple of different different things in that aspect, but we're talking about last clear notice and and being aware of your surroundings. Just, you know, you're you're operating uh what a two-ton machine, a one-ton machine that can kill people.

William Auten:

I you know, um so there's another aspect of negligence and liability to discuss called foreseeability, and that has uh to do with your ability to know that a hazard exists or that a risk of an accident exists.

Chantal Roberts:

Yes.

William Auten:

Um, you had just mentioned that you know, if a property owner doesn't know that there's a slippery condition, how are they supposed to mitigate it? How do they warn about it? Exactly. And in um on the road, foreseeability relates to uh whether or not you had the wherewithal to understand that there may be something wrong here that could cause an accident.

Chantal Roberts:

Like like the hill thing.

William Auten:

The hill, yeah. Yes. And it's funny because that the foreseeability, the window for foreseeability in a car accident is about that big versus a premises later.

Chantal Roberts:

And if you're listening, it's like a mill, you know, just like a paper thin, yeah, literally, yeah.

William Auten:

Um uh versus a premises liability where you know a situation could be existing for hours or days that somebody doesn't know about. Um but in a vehicle, you've got to make very quick decisions, and you'll be judged on those decisions in some cases if you make the wrong decision.

Chantal Roberts:

Right.

William Auten:

That's why liability insurance exists, though, because people do make the wrong decisions from time to time. So foreseeability.

Chantal Roberts:

Um and and and so you know, when that comes up, um, and and and this is something that I think is important too when we're talking about um, and I just want to mention this real quick, when we're talking about evidence, gathering evidence immediately. We we've talked about videos, we've talked about looking at where the points of impact are, looked at looking at where the little crunches of metal or plastic and everything is on the road, because that will tell you where the impact occurred on the road. Uh used to be uh in old, old, old adjusters, such as myself, know this that if you had, for example, a rear end or a uh front end accident, the light filaments in your headlights or your taillights uh would like stretch if they were on and they suddenly got turned off or whatever because they hit someone. Right. Nowadays, with cars having LED lights and some blinkers, we don't have that filament anymore. So just FYI. It's it's the price of us all advancing in technology, but also we need to find another way again.

William Auten:

But now there's onboard computers that track all that stuff instead that are probably giving way better uh and more reliable information than the filaments.

Chantal Roberts:

But speaking of, okay, so speaking of this foreseeability, uh my in-laws were unable to come to Kansas City for Thanksgiving because of the winter storm up in the upper Midwest. And so we're talking rain, snow, fog, ice, blah, blah, blah. Again, if it's raining, even sprinkling, whatever, you're you can't be going a hundred billion miles an hour because then there's oil on the road, and you you know, you could spin out or whatever. So what we're talking about is again the foreseeability. If it's snowing, you gotta slow down. And and then maybe this is when you drive 35 miles an hour on the freeway in heavy fog, even though the speed limit is 65. So if you get rear-ended, then am I saying you're at fault? I can't say that. I need to know all the facts, but I'm saying the person who did the rear-ending probably, you know, if they're going faster than that, that might not be a good idea, you know. Um driving for conditions, they were driving for foreseeability.

William Auten:

Yeah, and and um weather conditions are a huge factor, not just they make the road slippery, they make visibility bad. Um uh sometimes they stress people out. And stressed people don't make the best drivers sometimes. They're very cautious for sure. Yes, uh, but they don't always make the best decisions. And um I've seen confused drivers just stop. It's probably not a good idea, you know, unless you're off the road. Right. Um but um one thing that uh one story that I like to tell young drivers in particular is that when I'm at an intersection waiting for the red light to turn green, uh I don't look at the light and then go when it turns green without looking to my left and then to my right, just to make sure nobody else is uh ignoring the stoplight. Again, because yes, I'm not gonna die because I obeyed a traffic signal.

Chantal Roberts:

Right. Okay, and and again, that is foreseeability, that is being able to be aware of your surroundings, and again, all of this is rules of the road. It's not necessarily a law, but it's it's what adjusters need to be paying attention to because you can go through the intersection on a yellow. A yellow is only caution, it's like, hey, there's getting ready to be warning, there's getting ready to be a red light, right? Um some of us, certainly not I never me have gone through on a yellow and it turned red right smack dab in the middle. I never do that, I would never, ever do that. Um, it is so dangerous. And anyway, uh you know I have a story about that.

William Auten:

It just happened about three weeks ago and it stuck in my mind because it was so dangerous. Um I was the kind of the lead vehicle uh with some cars behind me. There was nobody really in front of us, and we were approaching a red light. It turned yellow, it turned red before well before I got there. I slow down to a stop, and the guy behind me just wings out to my left, goes around me, and passes me through the red light. I could not believe what I saw.

Chantal Roberts:

Yeah, I mean, you're like, oh, I always have to sit there and go, uh maybe they have some kind of emergency. Yeah. Blessings, blessings on them, you know what I'm saying?

William Auten:

Miles down the road, I caught up to him and I was behind him, so he couldn't have been in that much of a hurry.

Chantal Roberts:

No, that's true. Yeah. Uh my husband uh likes to when they pass them, uh, and then we catch up to him at the next stoplight. Like, hey, how'd that work out for you? I'm like, don't don't say that to him because we're gonna get shot.

William Auten:

You can bestow some blessings on him.

Chantal Roberts:

Yes, exactly. We're gonna bestow some blessings and maybe some hand signals on him, but um, you know, you can't do that. So anyway, driving foreseeability, driving for the weather. This is also rules of the road. I mean, there are there are a lot of other rules of the road, um, but we're we're not gonna like get all in into that. And and I get part of the thing that I've mentioned too is just because your insured gets a ticket doesn't mean they are necessarily responsible or liable uh for for the accident, because it could be that the other vehicle didn't maintain control of their vehicle or didn't yield. Uh, and so because again, using my example of control of the intersection and foreseeability, I have I I give this the participants of the facilitation of CBCU 530, I give them, of course, the rear impact, rear quarter panel, the side door impact, and then I give them the front quarter panel passenger side. And I'm like, okay, so who's at fault now? And oh, it's still the left-hand side, and I'm like, yeah, I would probably agree with that because again, that's the front, and they did not have control of the intersection. So, um, but you wanted to talk about left-hand turn or or four-way stops too. And the the only thing I remember about four-way stops, and this was in Arkansas, was reading about how if we were all to pull up together, we're supposed to defer to the person on our right. And I'm like, but everybody's on our right, so do we do paper scissors or how do we how do we I was taught the left? Oh, were you taught left? Oh my gosh. So, you know, if an if a New Yorker and our Kansan get together, we are definitely gonna hit one another.

William Auten:

Actually, uh the four-way stops, I think we can all figure out. I think one one informational piece that we should probably close out here with is the um uh the rules of the road and the liability immunities that are available to emergency vehicles and to municipal vehicles. Yes. This is a New York thing. I don't know if this exists in other states. I'm guessing it does, but um so rule number one, if you see red flashing lights, you pull over the side to the right as far as possible and come to a complete stop. And uh most people do that, but every once in a while there's some tingling who just doesn't get it.

Chantal Roberts:

Just doesn't get it.

William Auten:

Yep. They're either um lost in space or the radio is too loud. Or they're blind, deaf, and dumb. Um and uh just do that, people for crime. It's give them a break, you know.

Chantal Roberts:

And I will say some of the the some of the times that I see people freeze on this particular topic is when we're all at a stop sign and we get a green light, like the the ambulance is coming up behind us, we're all at a stoplight. We get a green light and we're like, crap, which one of us goes? I I would I would think it would be the people on the left, like the second, you know, um, they would go pull over so that the ambulance or the the police officer or the fire truck or whatever can go. Conversely, if you have a green light at this intersection and you see the lights coming, that doesn't mean go because the the police, the ambulance or whatever are going to be in um, you know, coming through that intersection at a great wait until they're clear before you go. Just because you have a green light, unless unless they're coming up behind you and you need to clear the intersection so they can get through.

William Auten:

Yeah, and if that's the case, you turn your wheels hard to the right and just go as far as you can. Yes. And it may not be very far, but at least you're sending the signal to that emergency vehicle driver that okay, this guy knows I'm coming. He's making an effort to get out of the way. I can see he can't really get anywhere, but at least he's showing to me uh his his effort to do so. Turn your right signal on, too, just so that everybody knows. Um, it's common sense courtesy in in a way. Um, so that's that's very important. And the other thing that's very important is uh here in New York again, because we have so many snow plows, but this applies to any maintenance vehicle for a municipality, if they're maintaining a public highway of any kind, um they have a different standard of negligence to um prove. You have to prove a recklessness standard um rather than regular negligence. It's a higher standard. Right. So, for uh example, if a snowplow were to um merge unsafely, let's say, and cause offender bender, you'd have to prove that that snow plow driver was acting in a reckless manner, not just negligence.

Chantal Roberts:

Would that be willful and wanton kind of deal?

William Auten:

Willful, wanton disregard for the public safety of others. So could an attorney make a case like that? Possibly. Um possibly. And and I, you know, if you're a purist when it comes to negligence and and liability and um uh apportioning fault, you might say, well, it doesn't matter whether it's a fate fatality or a fender bender, you have to judge them in the same way. That's not what happens. Like a fatality, it's definitely gonna be different circumstances. Even if you know, the if the plow driver turns right and sideswipes a car, and he and you take the exact same scenario and he turns right and runs somebody over and kills them. Those are two of the same circumstances where the driver of the plow made the same decision, but uh vastly different outcome, way more serious outcome in the second example. Um so anyway, we don't have to hash that out necessarily, but um, in general in New York, these these municipal operators have um different duty, uh they have it's a standard of recklessness. So just remember that.

Chantal Roberts:

I don't necessarily know if it's uh what the standard is in like Arkansas, Texas. I've got I I've had my driver's license in Texas, uh Arkansas, of course. No, I mean uh talking about the municipal cars, uh things of that nature. But um, no, I think there's one snowplow for the entire state of Texas. Arkansas, because we're a little bit further north, we have three snowplows for the entire state. Um, yeah, it's an entire state. Um and uh anyway, um we and in Kansas too. I don't know what the what the the the standard is, but what I'm saying is same thing. Uh I think everybody has that where you just pull all the way over to the right. And like I said, the the time that I see people freeze the most is oh my gosh, there is an ambulance coming from the rear. We are all stopped at a stoplight. And how do we get out of its way? Now I've seen the ambulance go across the median and cut across, of course. And then I've seen it where the light turns green and the people on the right nearest the curb stay still, and the people in the middle or the left, they go forward and then pull right after the intersection. I've seen it both ways, but anyway, but yeah, there that's also kind of a rule of the road. You gotta let those people go through.

William Auten:

So I have a funny story about an ambulance. We had an uh we were working uh for an ambulance company, we handled their claims, and they had many different types of claims, everything under the sun, most of them related to people not uh recognizing lights and sirens. In this case, the lady saw them coming up from behind them, panicked, went to the right as fast as she could, and re-rented a parked car. Bless her. And her insurance company made the case that it was the ambulance's fault.

Chantal Roberts:

Are you serious? Okay, as an adjuster, guys, that's not that's no I know we we go pursue subrogation. No, that is that is not uh uh that's not it.

William Auten:

They were were ultimately not successful, and I explained why to both the other insurance company and this young lady who was seeking her deductible back um why the rules of the road are what they are, and she actually thanked me later.

Chantal Roberts:

Um You know, if you think about it, we studied the rules of the road when we were what 16, 14, uh 14 in Arkansas. You can get your driver's license at 14, or you used to. I I they may have raised it, but you have to drive with an adult, a 21-year-old, uh at least. And so did we pay attention? We paid attention enough to pass our test so that we can get wheels, because as you said, Americans love our cars, and have we forgotten it? Yes. Thank God we don't have to retake the test because I probably would fail. But there you go.

William Auten:

So you are uh according to Google, um, you are correct. If two vehicles arrive at the same time, the vehicle to the right goes first.

Chantal Roberts:

If the if if two vehicles are that the right, you know what I'm saying?

William Auten:

Yeah.

Chantal Roberts:

So then do we do rock, paper, scissors? Um I mean, in theory, because everybody knows you just do the like two, like good. Um but like what does the test say? Does the test say that we got to do rock, paper, scissors? Um do we arm wrestle for it?

William Auten:

Right.

Chantal Roberts:

I mean, how if if four people were coming up to a four-way stop at the same time, the first vehicle there always has the right of way. Oh, yeah, the first peop the first one there's always got the right of way.

William Auten:

But it always yield to the right. So when two vehicles arrive at a four-way stop at the same time, side by side, the vehicle furthest to the right always has the right of way. Okay. Three vehicles at the same time, the car furthest left should continue.

Chantal Roberts:

Right. Correct. Correct, yes.

William Auten:

Straight traffic takes the right of way over turning traffic. Oh, yeah, it makes sense.

Chantal Roberts:

Uh yeah, but let's say we're all going straight. Anyway.

William Auten:

Oh, here we go. Who has the right of way? If four cars approach a four-way stop at the same time, there's no designated rule as to who should go first. However, it is recommended that you wait for the most aggressive driver to make the first move and then proceed with caution using the rules above from there.

Chantal Roberts:

So with that in mind, drop us a comment. Right? Okay. So um, with that in mind, drop us a note saying that you are quote assertive, end quote, instead of aggressive. And like, you know, comment, you know, letting us know, uh, share. Comment letting us know that you've shared and we'll like we'll mention you or whatever.

William Auten:

Four way stops are not for the timid, I guess. No, they're not. And you know what?

Chantal Roberts:

I I I always am the quote most aggressive, end quote, because I have a mini cooper and it has a little pep in it. So I mean, you know, it does it because it was in what was it, Oceans 11 or something to that effect, where yeah, it's what Aaron always thinks that he's driving when he's driving my car.

William Auten:

Go down the stairs.

Chantal Roberts:

Yeah, exactly. I'm like, don't use my car like this, babe. Um, this is my car. You use your Toyota like that. Uh uh, so December 18th is when our next podcast is.

William Auten:

We don't have a topic yet, but oh, I've got something in the wings.

Chantal Roberts:

Oh, is it Santa? Is Santa?

William Auten:

It's gonna be fun. Okay, no, it's not a Christmas theme. Although we could do probably should do a Christmas theme.

Chantal Roberts:

Well, it doesn't have to be Christmas, it could be just holiday themed. But cause because Santa is, you know, holiday-ish. But yeah, there you go. Uh so know the rules of the road. Uh write, uh, be the most aggressive driver, drop us a comment, like, and then get a friend. Suggest us to your friends.

William Auten:

Yeah. Uh and you know, um, so it occurs to me that the uh that on Spotify, there's not a real good way to comment or message. There is on on YouTube, uh, and people do that, and thank you for that. So I would say that if you've got something, if you listen to us on on Spotify and you got something to say, um comment on LinkedIn. You can find us both there. And um tell us what you thought about whatever episode. Um, if you think that I'm dead wrong about something, let me know. And if you think Chantel is dead right about something, of course, let me know. Let me know.

Chantal Roberts:

Because I'm always right. Yeah, and if you want to hear a topic or something, also let us know.

William Auten:

Yeah, yeah. It's a it's a wild world out there in insurance claims.

Chantal Roberts:

And um we know of a guest that we need to have on, so yeah, yeah.

William Auten:

Or if you want to be a guest yourself, that's another suggestion.

Chantal Roberts:

So absolutely. So we will see you on the 18th, I guess.

William Auten:

Yes, ma'am.

Chantal Roberts:

All right, see you later.

William Auten:

Take care, bye-bye.

Chantal Roberts:

Bye.

William Auten:

Thanks for joining us on the Art of Adjusting podcast, where we talk about life as an insurance adjuster. Hit that subscribe button real quick and tell all of your adjuster friends to check this out as well. For independent adjusting services, go to www.autin.claims. And for anyone interested in working as an independent liability adjuster, go to the contact us tab to join our roster.

Chantal Roberts:

So this wraps up another Art of Adjusting podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast or this episode, please give us five stars and a review. It does help the algorithm pick us up. In the meantime, you can contact me at theartofadjusting.com for consulting and training purposes.

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Chantal M. Roberts, CPCU

Co-host
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Heather Blevins, CPCU

Co-host
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Sandy Avina, MBA

Co-host
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William Auten

Co-host
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Nicholas Kearns

Editor