Episode #98: How Insurance Adjusters Get The Full Story With Recorded Statements

People hear “recorded statement” and assume it’s a trap. We don’t see it that way, and if you work in claims adjusting, you shouldn’t either. Bill Auten (Auten Claims Management) and Chantal Roberts (CMR Consulting) lay out what a recorded statement is really for: a clear, professional record of what happened that helps you investigate the claim, preserve evidence, and make the right call on liability, coverage, and damages.

We get practical about preparation before you ever hit record: knowing your claim file, planning your roadmap without clinging to a script, and using photos or simple exhibits to lock in details. We also talk through how to set expectations with insureds, claimants, and witnesses so they understand why you’re recording, what “name, rank, and serial number” questions are for, and why “I don’t know” is a perfectly acceptable answer. You’ll hear tactics for managing real-world problems like background spouses chiming in, distractions, and the awkward pauses that happen when you’re typing notes live.

We also cover what changes when an attorney is present, how to keep the tone calm and factual, and what to do when someone refuses to provide key information. Along the way, we reinforce the core skills that keep statements clean: open-ended questions, timeline prompts like “what happened next,” avoiding leading questions, and staying unbiased even when people assume adjusters are trained to deny. We finish with one of the most useful close-out questions you can ask and how to set next steps so everyone knows what comes next in the claims process.

Subscribe for more real-world insurance adjuster training, share this with an adjuster friend, and leave a review if it helps you run better recorded statements.

For more insights, you might consider a career in liability adjusting or if you're searching for reliable adjusting services, visit Auten Claims Management.

To explore more about Chantal Roberts and her contributions to the industry, visit CMR Consulting.

Promotions:

• Once Upon a Claim: Explore the magical world of claims adjusting through fairy tales. Get your copy now.
• The Art of Adjusting®: Master the art of claims adjusting with practical insights and expert advice. Purchase here.

Transcript

Welcome And Quick Catch Up

William Auten 0:06

Hello, I'm Bill Auten of Auten Claims Management.

Chantal Roberts 0:09

I'm Chantal Roberts of CMR Consulting, and welcome to the Art of Adjusting Podcast.

William Auten 0:14

Today we're going to talk about life as an insurance adjuster from the perspective of property, auto, liability, or workers' compensation adjusters. Our goal is to bring interesting topics in the world of claims adjusting to people who are working as an adjuster now and to people who are considering a career as a claims adjuster. Hey Chantal, how are you?

Chantal Roberts 0:33

Hi, I'm fantastic. How are you doing?

William Auten 0:36

Doing good. We are uh just past summer now, and uh weather's good. We're finally out of the winter, and I'm happy for that.

Chantal Roberts 0:44

Yeah, you know, it's so funny. Um, I still haven't adjusted coming up to Kansas City so much uh because it is the the summer does start a little bit later than in Jul or in Arkansas because our spring starts in February, you know, and uh it's so fun because I, you know, everyone's like, yeah, summer's like halfway over. And I'm like, oh babe, it doesn't end until September. Um, but that's from the south, and and so I'm still trying to get used to that. But yeah, absolutely. I'm loving it. Um, it's been raining a lot here in Kansas City, though. Um nothing is growing really here for me, but that's not what we're here to talk about. We're not here to talk about my my garden and how everything is is dying and how I can't plant anything.

Why Recorded Statements Still Matter

Chantal Roberts 1:30

Right. Um, because that would be a whole nother podcast. We are here to uh talk about recorded statements, and we've actually done an episode on this before you reminded me, and so I went to go look it up. It is episode 33 if you're interested in listening to that one. And we've we talked about how to master that skill. And so I thought it would be a good refresher course to to master, because one of the things that I'm kind of passionate about is that even though we become maybe experienced adjusters, there's no harm, no foul in us learning or or relearning things or being reminded of things because there's stuff that we forget, talking it out.

William Auten 2:17

Yeah, yeah. I have one question for you.

Chantal Roberts 2:20

Yes.

William Auten 2:20

Do you understand that this uh podcast is being recorded? And is it being recorded with your permission?

Chantal Roberts 2:25

I do understand, and yes, it is being done with my permission.

William Auten 2:29

So that's how we open up our recorded statements.

Chantal Roberts 2:33

Absolutely, yes, and and so we're gonna talk about that. And before we do that, be sure to like, subscribe, share, comment. We did have a comment the other day. I think it was a troll, but that's okay. Um, I'll take them, quite frankly. Because yeah, because you know, it like puts you up in the algorithm. So any trolls out there, I mean, didn't we just ask for a troll? I think we asked for a troll.

William Auten 2:55

I think we might have, yeah.

Chantal Roberts 2:56

We might have asked for a troll. So I mean, yay us and yay you for coming through.

William Auten 3:02

Be the troll.

Chantal Roberts 3:03

Yay the troll. Okay, so anyway, um, yeah, so that helps us, you know, pull things up and everything like that.

William Auten 3:10

But and if you agree with the troll, go and comment on what they said, or if you disagree with them and support us, go for that too.

Chantal Roberts 3:17

Go for it. I mean, absolutely. Okay, so anyway, a recorded statement, I think, is one of the most valuable tools in the adjuster's tool belts. And a lot of times we don't do it anymore uh for a lot of reasons. And um I so I thought we'd talk about a before we hit record, um, before we start off with the is this, you know, recording made with your knowledge and ask permission and and that sort of thing. We'd talk about like what we need to do to prepare before we hit record.

William Auten 3:52

Yeah. Um, I think some thought needs to go into whether or not you want to take a recorded statement. Um, there is some philosophies out there that um maybe maybe you know what they're going to say and you don't really want that on the record. And we don't really engage in that here. If I'm working with a defense attorney, sometimes I'll get that vibe where they're like, ask them this, but don't ask them this, you know, that kind of thing. And we're not wired that way. We've never been trained to do things that way. We've been trained to just find out everything we can because um a decision has to be made. And if there's some hidden little thing that we don't want to talk about because it's gonna hurt the case, I think you need to get it out there because that's gonna help you make the right decision eventually. It's gonna come out anyway, you know.

Chantal Roberts 4:47

That was the point that I was just getting ready to make is look, ask those hard questions. And this may be one of those advanced kind of techniques because I know that newer adjusters, I I was this way. Um, when I was a new adjuster and a rookie, I was always scared to ask those hard questions because I was either afraid that someone was going to yell at me or or it might be bad for the case. But you have to remember as an adjuster, what your job is is to pay the covered claim. And you can't do that if you don't know what really happened. And and so if you have some bad information, you need to get it out in the open and decide what to do with it.

William Auten 5:34

I think, I think so, and I think most carriers uh would agree. I think there is um, like I say, defense attorneys, they're in kind of a different bucket. Exactly. They uh their job is to minimize the damage as much as possible. So I get that approach, um, but they're litigating this, so their their mindset's a little different. Yeah, we are fact gatherers, um exactly primarily.

Chantal Roberts 6:05

So I would I would say too, if we are in litigation, we usually don't take a recorded statement right in in that instance, because that is when the attorneys are going to do depositions, and that is something completely different, although also a great podcast to talk about. However, uh, this is more of a formal, informal kind of deal. Um, you're not trying to catch someone in and for those new adjusters out there, you've got to know that there is a lot of misinformation about what statements are. And uh people will always say, Oh, don't give a recorded statement to the to the insurer. They're just trying to to to trick you to admit to things and to um uh catch you lying. And and if you go back and you add things, then that's indicative of fraud and blah, blah, blah. This is clearly not true. And we can talk about it, but you know, this is why statements matter is that you're trying to understand what happened. You need to preserve the evidence because if you go to court, it is in like two years from now, three years from now, whatever. And so people's memories change over time, and it preserves the evidence. Uh, and that's kind of what you what you want. You're we're not trying to catch anybody, we're not trying to trick anybody.

William Auten 7:40

No, I I I mean, on both sides, both the insured side and the claimant side, yeah. The idea is that you well you've heard the phrase give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves, right? That is probably uh a really negative way to characterize this, but what it the at the heart at the heart of that is that you're getting to the bottom of it. You know, you're really trying to find out the full facts so that you know whether this is gonna go in one direction or another, um, and you know whose fault it's gonna be. That's what you're really trying to figure out. And if it's your insured's fault and everything they say uh leads to that, then that's where you stand, you know. Right. I've had insureds admit to me in the statement, this was completely my fault. This was totally my fault. This was all my fault. Okay, all right, great, you can say it three times, five times, that that's thank you. So now we know right now we know this is a claim to pay, not a claim to necessarily defend. Right. And then after the uh, you know, after the damages are evaluated and it appears to be a policy limits case or excess case, uh the insured changes their story real quick.

unknown 8:59

Right.

William Auten 9:00

Uh so there's that.

Chantal Roberts 9:02

Yeah, and and remember, we're not conducting uh an interrogation. Uh it's like what you said, we're following the facts. We aren't following our theory, we're not following the insured's theory. And and we're we're kind of talking as if this is only done in third-party claims. It's not necessarily, I mean, we can do a a recorded statement in a first party claim, but it's usually done with the uh a third party. You and and so you would talk to the insured, the claimant, and then any witnesses. And that's who you would get your um uh facts from. And usually I start off in exactly kind of that order. I start off with the insured, then I go to the claimant, and then I go to the witnesses, or sometimes I'll start with the insured, then go to the witnesses, and then go to the claimant. It just depends on who I can get, but it I usually try to get the insured first.

William Auten 10:00

Yeah. The standing rule on on property claims is if it's a fire or theft or vandalism, we always would get a statement. And the the reason for those is that they are um, I guess, rape for fraud. So um we we do kind of want to tie the insured into what they are saying happened early so that that doesn't change later on.

Chantal Roberts 10:25

Right, exactly. And again, this is all about what you're trying to sworn. And we've got a roadmap. Uh, although I know a lot of insurers, and even I, when I was at a third-party administrator, I had a I did

Prep The File And Your Roadmap

Chantal Roberts 10:40

have a list of questions that I would ask. And now again, being a rookie, it it helps you out. But the issue is you can't just follow that script. You've got to be listening and hear what the people are saying, and then sometimes you go off and you know, left field or whatever.

William Auten 11:02

You probably should.

Chantal Roberts 11:03

Yes, you absolutely should if they ask you something weird. Um, and I I have a note down later about like what to do when we're wrapping up or you know, something like that. So um the other thing that I would say in preparing yourself for the recorded statement is of course, know your file, know what's been listed. Um you know, the insured says they rear-ended me or um they slammed on their brakes and I rear-ended them, but it wasn't my fault. You know, be sure to know that idea or that concept or or whatever, so that when you go in, you know what kind of questions to ask, what kind of thing that you're looking for.

William Auten 11:52

Um another thing you can do to prepare is um, and I've done this a lot, is to have photographs of whatever you're talking about, um, and label them as exhibit A, B, C, whatever. Um, and in a statement, discuss what that depicts and slide it across the table to the person that you're talking to, and give them a red pen so that they can make an X where something happened, or they can describe the distance, um, and then they can sign that and date it. And that becomes then part of the the claim evidence and the claim file.

Chantal Roberts 12:28

That's great. That's a good piece uh of advice there. I have taken before, and this um kind of goes to when I don't understand something that is that the that someone is saying to me uh and I'm doing a recorded statement like in person or something. I've taken this happened to be when I was out in the field, I was doing uh semi-tractor trailer rig accidents with cars and things like that, and I didn't understand how the claimant was describing the accident. I took out my little toy truck and my little toy car and and I would position them like the claimant was saying and try to match the damages and be like, okay, so help me through this, walk me through this because I'm not understanding this. And and you shouldn't be afraid to to say those sorts of things, like just to kind of stop it and and go, okay, uh hold on, I'm I'm not quite grasping what you're saying. Let's let's like write this out or or use toys.

William Auten 13:36

Right. Um you notice sometimes to someone my favorite statings from my wife is um let me test my understanding here and then repeat back what you think they are saying so that they can correct you or validate, you know, what your perspective is.

Chantal Roberts 13:52

I love that saying. Can you say it again?

William Auten 13:54

Yeah, allow me to test my understanding of what you just said.

Chantal Roberts 13:58

I love that. That is that is very, very good. I was going to suggest adjusters say something similar, which uh is just okay, I uh I'm typing in that you said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is that correct? And and they can say yes or no. Um, let's talk about preparing a person for for giving the statement, whether it's the claimant or the insured. I usually explain why we're doing the recording. Uh, and by the way, just FYI, I never say recorded interview because I have always been told that that people are nervous with interviews. You go on job interviews, you don't know, you know, the police interview you or whatever. And and so interview kind of has this nervousness, but if you're just taking a statement or um something to that effect, it might help calm people down.

William Auten 14:56

So Yeah, the word statement kind of sounds like a punch in the nose, too. Um does. If you want to soften it even more, and I've not done this, but you could say uh we're gonna have a recorded conversation about what happened.

Chantal Roberts 15:09

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying we're gonna have a recorded conversation, or I'm gonna record the conversation that we're gonna have. I'm gonna ask a lot of questions. Um, and before again, I hit record, and this is just me, is I explain why we're doing the recording, you know, and I point blank say, okay, I'm gonna start off with a couple of name, rank, and serial number questions. And even if I'm in person, out not, you know, over the phone or whatever, I'm going to ask you some name, rank, and serial number questions. This just proves to me that you are who you say you are. I'm gonna ask you for your driver's license number, your social security number. I know that some people aren't comfortable doing this. We've talked about that social security number with our CMS uh podcast. If you want to give me the last five, that's fine. And if you need to go get those information, go ahead. One of the things that I always ask for, and I started asking for it when I was working as a third-party administrator, is I ask for an alternate contact. Uh, I ask for like someone who can get in contact with you if you were to move and change numbers and change addresses, and I need to get in touch with you. Is this gonna someone's not gonna move with you? Like a mother, a brother, an aunt, an uncle, a best friend, something like that. Who who's going to be able to get you information? Because again, remember, we may need this witness or something five years from now.

William Auten 16:40

Right.

Chantal Roberts 16:41

And we never know what's gonna happen. And people insist, oh, I'm never gonna change my number, blah, blah, blah. You say that, but then you know, I got to go do, like, I don't know, a credit check or something, try to find you or whatever. Anyway, it just it just helps.

Set Expectations And Build Rapport

William Auten 16:56

Exactly. And uh preparing yourself is one thing, but also you may want to prepare the environment that you're gonna do this in.

Chantal Roberts 17:02

Absolutely.

William Auten 17:03

Um, you want it quiet, uh, no distractions. You don't want the kids coming in asking mommy for you know, a glass of milk or something. Um so those yeah, you have to kind of control those um scenarios. Uh, one of the things that annoys me the most and has been the hardest to uh prevent is when the spouse is in the background and you don't know and they decide to chime in. Usually that happens over the phone because you don't realize someone else is in the room.

Chantal Roberts 17:35

Right.

William Auten 17:35

And then um before you know it, there's a whole conversation with three or four people going on, and you're like, okay, everybody's gotta just be quiet having a conversation with one person here.

Chantal Roberts 17:46

And and this is a good point. Uh because I've had that happen before where the spouse will will say something in the background, and you can hear him or her because they're yelling into the phone, and you kind of have to stop and identify who that other person is. Like, is that your husband? Is that your wife? What's their name? Okay, and it especially becomes confusing for a claimant, for example, or someone who's also been involved in the accident, because you're going to talk to them, you know, because you want to talk to everybody in the accident. And and so they think they maybe are being helpful, but you got to say, no, wait, stop. You know, please tell your spouse to wait until I speak with them to tell me what they're they're telling you, right? You know, and but you do need to identify them. You as the adjuster do need to say, okay, Mr. Smith, um, that was Mr. Smith yelling to Mrs. Smith what what he wanted to say, and that was blah blah blah blah blah. Is that it was a Chevy, not a Ford. Exactly, you know, and and um because we've got to again kind of preserve the record, and that sounds like when I say preserve the record, it sounds like, oh, that's not a conversation, that's a you know, interview that's a again it's a formalized conversation, yeah.

William Auten 19:09

It's a formalization. It is for record keeping purposes and potentially evidence, right?

Chantal Roberts 19:16

One of the things again that I I I do tell claimants and insureds for that matter, uh when I get ready to to turn the recording off before I turn the recording off, is like, look, if if you've got something that you remember, as soon as I hang up the phone with you, call me back and and tell me what it is. The people are always nervous talking with us. Um and and so they may not remember everything, and it may come back later. A statement while it's formalized isn't necessarily carved into stone, not like a deposition is, not like an examination under oath or an EUO is, and someone may remember something, and that doesn't mean that they're being fraudulent or or something to that effect. And I've seen adjusters fall into that. Now, sometimes it is, don't get me wrong. I mean, there's always the exclusion or the exception to the rule, but I'm just letting you know that sometimes people remember, oh yeah, I did blah, blah, blah.

William Auten 20:25

You know, so I had a witness in here the other day who was very nervous about the statement process. And her questions were uh, you know, I I don't want to do this wrong. I thought there's no wrong, just answer questions, you know. And if you don't know the answer to a question, just say I don't know. And um it took a little bit to build rapport there to where she was like, Oh, okay, this is gonna be a lot easier than she probably had thought.

Chantal Roberts 20:56

Yes. So and rapport is a very important word because I actually had in an expert witness uh, I guess it was a rebuttal to to my case, where the opposing expert witness had said that adjusters are trained to um build rapport and lure people into uh divulging information. And I want to talk about that real quick, just real quick. Um we do have to build rapport with people because again, like you said, they're nervous that they they don't want to tell us wrong, and they are afraid that what they say, quote, on the record, end quote, is gonna end up damaging their claim or whatever. And so you got to put them at ease. And by doing this, you explain the process, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. However, even in our books, uh, you know, our CPCU books, our associate and claims books, AIC. Um books. It says we got to establish report. This is part of the process of taking a recorded statement. Identify ourselves, explaining the process, removing the mystery. So that it doesn't look like I'm really coming at them. You know, I'm trying to give them a sense of power over this. And I point blank tell them, just like you did, you can say you don't know. Do not make up an answer for me. You know, and and giving these people these tools are very important.

William Auten 22:47

Yeah. Um it's, you know, building rapport is just a human thing to do too. It's not um, it's not trickery and it's not um, you know, some kind of subterfuge. It's just like making someone comfortable in the environment so they're not you know, like who wants a nervous person next, you know, exactly in front of them that they have to talk to? Nobody.

Chantal Roberts 23:09

Nobody.

William Auten 23:10

So um, yeah, just be like a person and and have a conversation.

Chantal Roberts 23:15

I and yeah, I and I think that's that's also a really important part. And and then we get into where um we may be in person and and maybe there's an attorney present, like the um claimant has an attorney, and the attorney has already said, I'm not gonna let you ask these sorts of questions, you know, and and you may be wondering if you're

Control Distractions And Extra Voices

Chantal Roberts 23:40

new, who do I address the questions to? You address them to the claimant, to the to the person who has been in the accident, not to the attorney.

William Auten 23:50

Yeah, I would introduce the attorney in the beginning and say that also present is attorney, XYZ, whatever. Um, but yeah, I've had uh I've had statements start out where every question you ask, and the claimant does one of these over to his attorney to double check if they can answer. And the attorney's look just answer the questions. If he asks something that I don't want you to answer, I'll let you know. Exactly. Rarely ever happens.

Chantal Roberts 24:15

Uh very, very rarely. It usually is about with we have when we have the attorneys present, it is usually about the bodily injury. They they don't want the people talking about bodily injury, and again, that's fine. Um, here are some statements that you can let again, both the claimant and the attorney know because might as well keep everybody on the same page, which is when you well, first you said introduce the attorney. I make sure that I get the attorney also allowing, acknowledging that I'm recording the conversation and allowing that recording to happen. So, you know, Mary Smith, do you realize that I'm recording this conversation? Yes. Do I have your permission to do so? Yes. Also present is attorney John Doe. Uh, he represents Mary Smith. Attorney Doe, do you realize that I'm recording this conversation? Yes. Do I have your permission? Yes. Okay, great. And then you go. And if I say, okay, Mary, can you tell me what your injuries are? And the attorney goes, No, she can't. Then while we're still recording, I will say, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that, but I gotta let you know that if you don't tell me, um, while I'm trying to res preserve all of this evidence, I'm gonna have to make the decision based on the information that's in my file. And that's all you got to say. Yeah. Because attorneys understand that. And the claimant, Mary, may not understand it immediately, but attorney can explain that to them. Anyway, the point being is that you've addressed those issues and and uh you will you keep the tone professional. If the attorney wants to turn this into some kind of deposition and contest everything, you do have the right to get up and leave.

William Auten 26:12

Um, and you know if you're not getting the information you need, there's no reason to really uh keep going.

Chantal Roberts 26:19

Yeah.

William Auten 26:19

Um, but that I I don't think I've had that happen very often. I have to um I may have had it happen on the first party side where there was some sketchy stuff going on and they just didn't want to. And by the way, uh to all the attorneys listening, um, you know, I I would say about 50% of our cases, the attorney will allow a statement. It might be less than 50.

Chantal Roberts 26:42

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

William Auten 26:42

Um, and the rest will say, no, never, we never allow that. You know, nobody ever allows that. And that's not true. Um, when when the attorney starts with, we never allow statements, or we're not going to allow you to take a statement. In my mind, I instantly think, well, you must not have a very good case then, because if your case was very good, um, your client will tell me everything that I need to know to make a decision to pay the claim. So uh that's that's my philosophy. I don't know what they all talk about on the plaintiff's side uh when they get together. Right. Uh, but um if they're conspiring to avoid these statements for some tactical reason, I want to let you know that it puts a different, you know, kind of thought in our head than than you might be thinking.

Chantal Roberts 27:36

So yeah, it is it is kind of a red flag for for for an adjuster because we start wondering, well, why why wouldn't you want to give us information? I mean, and and the other aspect would be that I have heard attorneys say, I will let you talk to my claimant if I can talk to your insured.

William Auten 27:55

That's a that's an interesting um counter. And I've not I've not had that.

Chantal Roberts 28:00

I have, I've had it it happen quite a few times, and I'm like, well, you know, I I can't do that. Um, I'm not going to arrange that. Um and and because the insured is not attorney represented. I mean, I suppose the attorney could reach out to the insured and talk to them. But again, my job is to investigate the claim. I don't care who's right. And it could be uh he said she said case. All right. Again, then you need to prove up your case, Mr. or Mrs. Attorney. I but I have had those come up. I will not let you talk to my client until I talk to your insured. And again, this the same answer is that's fine, no problem, but recognize that I'm going to make my liability decision based off of what's in my file. And if I only have statements from the insured, uh, and and documentation that supports their point of view, such as damage or the police report or whatever, then that's what I'm going to make my decision based off of. And and we can go from there.

William Auten 29:16

Uh I think so there's a couple of thoughts that come to mind though, when when the idea of that tit for tat kind of um proposal comes up, the dynamics are different on both sides. One person is defending themselves against allegations. What we're doing is trying to find out what the allegations are in as great a detail as we can. Um and the I think the burden of proof is more on the claimant than the than the defendant.

Chantal Roberts 29:48

It is.

William Auten 29:49

So I'd be inclined to argue that that I don't think we're going to allow that because we're on the

Run The Statement With Open Questions

William Auten 29:55

defense here. You're trying to make you're trying to say that this is an injury or situation of significant value, and we want to hear that first.

Chantal Roberts 30:05

I agree. I totally agree. Um, but again, I don't know why they say that. Uh again, it might be a a plaintiff bar kind of issue, but I again I've not, you know, I I've not had it come up.

William Auten 30:25

And uh I will know if any of uh the attorneys we work with listen to this podcast if it happens in the next month or so.

Chantal Roberts 30:34

This is true. Um, but anyway, let's start off with our recording. So, you know, we've already introduced ourselves, asked if we have permission to record it. They've said yes. I then generally let the claimant go. Please tell me in your own words what happened. Start as broad as I can uh and I don't interrupt and I don't try to jump ahead or anything, I just let them talk. And and by the way, guys, we haven't mentioned this. I tend to take the notes as the recording is going. Uh, some people handwrite it, but I'm usually typing it into the file. Uh so we gotta take notes because we can't rely on our memory and do it like afterwards. So either handwrite it or type it in as it's going along.

William Auten 31:30

Yep. Um of the things that happens with every recorded statement is that you you hit the stop button, you exchange your pleasantries, and you get in your car to drive back to the office and you think about 15 different questions that you should have asked.

Chantal Roberts 31:50

Absolutely. Happens every time.

William Auten 31:52

Yeah.

Chantal Roberts 31:53

Happens every time. Don't worry about it. You know, these are things that you can find out again a little bit later because they may be sitting there thinking, oh, I should have told them about XYZ as well. I mean, it's not like the last time you are ever going to have that conversation or a conversation. And if these questions are really important, you can do another recorded statement.

William Auten 32:14

Yep.

Chantal Roberts 32:15

You know, I I don't know if I ever have, but um you can do one. I mean, absolutely, it's not that big of a deal. Uh, and again, remember if if we unfortunately do go to litigation, um, our defense attorney is going to be able to request a deposition and ask these questions as well. So uh don't worry too much. But um sometimes, you know, what we're what we're doing is we're sitting there, we're being quiet. Silence is okay. It's okay to be quiet during the the immediate aftermath of I wouldn't say aftermath, the the immediateness after someone has has given a a sentence, like this is what happened, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And just be quiet. See if they volunteer any information. Um I do warn my people that I'm taking recorded statement from, especially over the phone because they can't see me. I will tell them, hey, um, I may ask some questions twice in different ways, and that's just to make sure that I understand what you've said. Uh, so it's not me trying to trick you. I mean, I point blank say it, not me trying to trick you. I'm just asking it a couple of different ways to make sure that I understand so that I get it down in the notes correctly. You may hear a silence after you've spoken. That's just me hunting and pecking for the keys because I'm taking notes as we're going along. You know, and again, it it sets these expectations that okay, there is some silence, and maybe I'm not hunting and pecking for the keys. Maybe I'm just waiting to see if they're going to volunteer something. But these are words and phrases that you can use that help ease some of the transition, ease some of the fear, uh, and and build rapport with the person that you're taking the recorded statement from.

William Auten 34:21

And when you um when you get into more serious accident claims involving serious consequences, um, you might want to have a box of tissue handy for the person that you're interviewing because uh it can be traumatic to relive some of those experiences.

Chantal Roberts 34:39

And and while uh we should never say I'm I'm sorry for the accident or what have you, because a lot of times uh plaintiff counsel will say, Oh, you've just admitted to this fault because you're sorry for it or whatever. I I I don't believe that. I think that we can be human and and and say, I'm sorry that you're going through this. This is this is terrible, especially, and I've had to take these recorded statements, they are horrible when someone's spouse has died in the car accident and they survived. And you're like, I have to take that recorded statement. Yeah, this is horrible. Yeah, I gotta ask, I gotta ask, but I gotta ask these questions, and it's something that I gotta know. Um and and be a human, you know. This is part of building rapport too.

William Auten 35:40

Um you're better off saying, I'm sorry this happened to you than saying it's not that bad.

Chantal Roberts 35:46

Oh god, yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Or I understand how you feel. Well, unless you've been in an accident where someone's spouse has died and that's what has happened, you don't. Um so um empathize. Uh, you know, clarify your timelines, clarify the sequence of events, and and usually the way that I do that is so what happened, what happened afterwards, you know, and and then what happened then? Uh and again, I may re-ask the same questions a couple of different times. And as we said earlier, if I don't understand, I will kind of pause the interview or statement and say, okay, help me out because I don't understand how did X lead to Y.

William Auten 36:33

Right. Your your notes here have um a phrase, ask what happened next. I do that constantly during a okay, what happened next? Okay, and then what? And then what? And you know, because they'll they'll say, I fell and I hit the floor. Okay, what happened next? Right. I got up. Okay, what happened next? You know, but and you have to do that sometimes because they're giving you just little short answers, and there are some people that are wired that way, not because they don't, not because they're trying to avoid giving you too much information, it's just that they just think in short little bursts and you know, the way that that's how they communicate, and um, you've got to kind of pull the information out of them again, not to trick them, not to lead them down the path that you know it's open-ended. What happened next? You know, not then you were fine, you know, you're not gonna be able to do that. Exactly. That's a leading question. Right.

Chantal Roberts 37:32

So um, you know, here's a fun little factoid that you can use, not use. Uh, my husband, what he likes to do is he likes to watch the um police show 48 hour hours. Um, and the one that's that follows the police detectives around, uh, I not like the movie or anything like that, but the one where um we're following police detectives in homicide in the homicide unit, because it's a great way to see how they ask questions and what they key in on to learn how to do follow-up questions. So he said, if I ever run

Empathy Without Losing Professionalism

Chantal Roberts 38:20

a team again, I would ask that all of my adjusters actually watch this show because it's really good. And you could even start, once you start watching it, you can even start identifying when the police ask leading questions. Like, so you were fine then, and then you got up and you walked off, you know, or then you put the gun down or whatever. Um, but yeah, that uh you gotta ask your open-ended questions. You don't assume that you already know the answer.

William Auten 38:51

And yeah, that'll get you in trouble. Yeah, um, I mean, uh when I say it'll get you in trouble, what it will do is it it's going to blind you to other things that may have been going on that you won't be thinking about, which you should be. Because um, you know, if if your goal is to just defend the insured and just say, look, our insured is totally in, they didn't do anything. I know they didn't do anything, but they did. But you're not asking about that. You're trying to steer the conversation to help the case, you're gonna get a uh um you're gonna get a muddied picture of what actually happened. And when it does eventually come out in depositions, right? A claim that you thought was worth $25,000 is now worth $750,000 and you're gonna look like a dum-dum.

Chantal Roberts 39:43

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Because remember, again, we're supposed to be unbiased. You know, uh, I know a lot of people don't think that. I was just talking to my students about uh this, you know, the claims adjuster, we're supposed to be by unbiased. We only work off of what the policy is, you know, and the policy tells us how much to pay, when to pay, da-da-da-da-da. Now we could disagree with how much to pay, but you know, no, we're that's all we're supposed to be doing. Um, so every claim is a fresh investigation, even though all you do is liability auto, let's say, you know, and it's a rear-end accident. Don't just assume that it's a low-end accident or rear end accident. So I don't need to talk to the insured or, you know, whatever, or it's fraudulent if it's rear end or something like that. You got to go in with fresh eyes every single time, and you got to slow down to hear something new. If anything is new, I you know, whatever.

William Auten 40:48

And I'm sure there's gonna be people that might listen to this and and think that we're we're being dishonest or disingenuous here about the approach that we have to take as adjusters to not be biased, right? Because I think there's a this this theory that all the insurance companies are evil and they train all their people to be evil, and it's just evil, evil, deny, defend, whatever. Right, right, right. And in my experience, that's not the case. I mean, we don't want to pay claims that shouldn't be paid. Um so there's that, and that's there's nothing wrong with that, uh, because not every claim should be paid. Exactly. Um, but on the flip side, if it's a legitimate claim that needs to be paid, we need to get there. You know, we need we need the claimant to help us get there and help us figure out what actually happened.

Chantal Roberts 41:42

And you said something earlier, and I believe that it's really important, is that when we're talking about liability aspects of claims, it is the third party, it's the claimant's job to prove their damages. And it's not only because we're defending the insured, but you know, the we're supposed to indemnify and protect the insured in case that they were legally liable. It's just the same as if it were in court. You if if we all went to court, the claimant still has to prove their damages. They would be the plaintiff at that time. And so again, it sounds like we're gearing up to deny this claim, and it's not, it's just the way this system is set up. And that is something that I don't think a lot of people understand, and and adjusters may not understand, especially if you're new. But the the claimant does have to give us all of their information. We can help the claimant uh if they're not attorney rep by getting their medical bills, you um doing some things for them, getting their lost wages information, that sort of thing. That is our job. But also they have to prove up their claim. So if they don't give us any information, then again, the only thing we can

Bias Myths And Burden Of Proof

Chantal Roberts 43:05

base our inf our our decisions off of is what we have in our file, which would be what the insured tells us.

William Auten 43:11

Right.

Chantal Roberts 43:12

Because the insured has to cooperate with us.

William Auten 43:14

Yes, yes, they they have to in theory, but do they always tell the truth? No, they don't know.

Chantal Roberts 43:22

No, but again, there are ways, even before we get to litigation of again making the insured give us the information that we need, you can send out a reservation of rights letter, or if you're in you're in New York, you don't call, you don't do a reservation of rights letter, you know your area, your jurisdiction, but you can quote the policy language to that person. Um, and if push comes to shove where you really need the information, uh you can demand uh an examination under oath from the insured, which actually an adjuster could do. I never recommend it. I always recommend that. A an attorney does the examination under oath, it's not a deposition. Um, it's kind of like a step down from a deposition, but it is recorded by a court reporter. So, I mean, it's very formal and it is a duty by the insured. And if the insured does not live up to that duty, then you can start looking into uh we're gonna like void the policy, which is way and whole nother podcast, or deny the claim outright because he's not um cooperating with us or whatever.

William Auten 44:31

Again, whole nother podcast hardly ever happens, but so EUOs are interesting though, um, because there's a um there's there's a requirement to give one to the insurance company when they request it under the first party property side, but there is no similar obligation under the liability side.

Chantal Roberts 44:52

Really? I did not know that. I just I've just always demanded it.

William Auten 44:57

Yeah. Um about that.

Chantal Roberts 44:59

Uh you learn something new every day.

William Auten 45:01

Yeah. Well, and it depends on the forms. I mean, I guess the forms that we we have been working with here lately um do not have, you know, it's not a condition of coverage to give an EUO on a third-party claim.

Chantal Roberts 45:15

Um, yeah, I think I've always seen it under like general conditions, like or general rules or you know, duties of the insurance, you know.

William Auten 45:26

And so if you look at a homeowner's policy or even a commercial policy, it's one form with that in it. The forms that we work with with a lot of our small mutuals, um the there's uh there the forms are in different packages. So yeah, there is a um there's a general provisions coverage form, but then there's a separate coverage form for the property and a separate one for the liability. Okay. So a little different. So read your forms, people.

Chantal Roberts 45:55

Yeah, also what we always say read your forms, know your policy, know your jurisdiction, all of that kind of stuff. Um, wrapping up, I think one of the most important lessons that I've ever learned is to close out, or before I close out, the statement is again asking a very open-ended question. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you think is important? And you would be amazed. So I'm I've gotten some good nuggets. Like and sometimes point blank, though the the claim will go, yes, I think your insured is is at fault because of XYZ. And I'm like, that's a pretty good thing. Let's discuss it. And then we discuss it, and because I thought I was finished, but I'm obviously not. And then we go back to wrapping it up again. Okay, anything else that you think is important that you want to clarify or you want to tell me about? And again, they can think about it after I hang up with them. That's fine. Um, I'm gonna explain uh I'm gonna say again, do you realize I'm recording it? Did I have it with your permission? Blah, blah, blah. And I usually begin with the dates, um, the starting time and the ending time again, you know, whatever. And once I hit stop, this is when I explain the next steps. Okay, I've got to do um three other interviews. I've got to find the witnesses, I've got to talk to them. Uh, then I've got to wait for the appraiser to get the estimates back to me, and then I'll make a decision. We're probably looking at two or three weeks. Uh, it just depends on how soon I can get in touch with everybody when the adjuster gets me the information, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I thank them for their time. And the point is, is that again, we've talked about it so many times, Bill, is we're setting that expectation.

William Auten 47:44

Right. Right. Um, a comment about the last question that you asked. Um, is there anything else that we that we you would like to discuss that we haven't talked about that you think

EUOs Policy Duties And Knowing Forms

William Auten 47:55

might be important? When we have that phrase, there have been times, not often, but sometimes the conversation after that question goes longer than the main statement did.

Chantal Roberts 48:07

I've had that happen too, because what the claimant feels is important may not be what you think is important.

William Auten 48:15

Right.

Chantal Roberts 48:16

And and I've gotten, like I said, I've gotten some nuggets from from that. And when I say nuggets, it doesn't mean that I was able to deny the claim. It meant uh I found liability for that, you know.

William Auten 48:31

Um in most cases, when that happens, though, what I found is that it is more of a listening session, more of a of someone who has experienced something bad and they they want someone to listen to them describe what kind of misery they're going through and all the problems that they've had, and they just want to unload. And that's fine too.

Chantal Roberts 48:56

Yes, yes. Um, but it's it's also interesting because sometimes when this happens, when when they're talking about what kind of misery that they're having, while we ask them, what doctor are you seeing? You know, are you going to physical therapy? Are you missing work? Or, you know, how has this affected your normal daily living? You know, can you take a shower or whatever? Um, we don't understand how painful or whatever that is. And so when you say, Is there anything else that you feel is important that you want to let me know about, that gives them permission.

William Auten 49:32

It's a genuine question.

Chantal Roberts 49:33

It it it is a very legitimate question. And I recommend everybody to to use it. That's why I'm mentioning it here.

William Auten 49:42

And and even if even if it is just a listening session like I've described, uh, that doesn't minimize the value of that information.

Chantal Roberts 49:50

So I still write all of that information down in my claim notes. You know, claimant um started to say that she couldn't dress herself or blah blah blah blah blah, and she was worried about this, and you know, da da da these sorts of things. So again, you know, the recorded statement isn't about proving anybody wrong. We're not out here to catch someone or say gotcha. We're not leading questions, none of that. You you ask open-ended questions, you say, What's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? Kind of like what happened next. Like our next episode will be on Thursday, July 16th. Kind of like that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You know, so um it's about giving um a claimant and the insured and all of the witnesses the the opportunity to tell you what happened so that you can can make the correct decision. Because I always uh I like to to kind of mess with my students and say, um how many sides of a coin are there? And and invariably they'll say two. And I'm like, no, there's three. And it'd be like um, because there's this the side of it, you know, there's the head, the tail, and then

The Final Question And Next Steps

Chantal Roberts 51:05

the the side that you can, you know, do the little the edge. Yeah, the edge, thank you.

William Auten 51:09

So anyway, um, I don't think we know what we're gonna do for July 16th yet, but I'm working on a comprehensive list of topics for the next six months.

Chantal Roberts 51:23

Oh my gosh, yeah, yes. So that'll take us all the way through December. Woo! Yeah, okay. So uh be sure to like, subscribe, please troll us. Uh, we love that. And it it helps the algorithm. Um, pick us up and all of that sort of fun things. So thank you.

William Auten 51:41

And Chantal, before we break here, I have one question. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about that you think might be important?

Chantal Roberts 51:49

Uh no, I believe I've said everything. Thank you.

William Auten 51:52

Right on.

Chantal Roberts 51:52

Thank you. Hey, have you realized that this has been recorded?

William Auten 51:56

Yeah.

Chantal Roberts 51:56

And was it done with your permission?

William Auten 51:58

Nope.

Chantal Roberts 51:59

Oh, okay. Well, then I guess I'm gonna sign off now.

William Auten 52:02

Okay.

Chantal Roberts 52:03

Bye. Bye-bye.

William Auten 52:04

Thanks for joining us on the Art of Adjusting Podcast, where we talk about life as an insurance adjuster. Hit that subscribe button real quick and tell all of your adjuster friends to check this out as well. For independent adjusting services, go to www.autin.claims. And for anyone interested in working as an independent liability adjuster, go to the contact us tab to join our roster.

Chantal Roberts 52:27

So this wraps up another Art of Adjusting podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast or this episode, please give us five stars and a review. It does help the algorithm pick us up. In the meantime, you can contact me at theartofadjusting.com for consulting and training purposes.