Episode 34: Encore Episode - Faith, Family, and Ice Cream: The Legacy of Leatherby's Family Creamery

Family Business Tour + Ice Cream Social
Leatherby’s Family Creamery, 2455 Iron Point Road, Folsom 95630
Wednesday, July 23 | 3:00–5:00 PM
Space is limited, so be sure to sign up soon and bring the whole family! Visit the website to register HERE. 

Join your host, Natalie Mariani-Kling, for an inspiring journey as she recounts the remarkable transformation of Dave Leatherby Sr. and his wife Sally, who transitioned from a small farming town in Iowa to a life of profound faith and generosity on the West Coast. She'll explore how Dave Sr.'s career with Safeway, and his mentorship under Bert Bride, led to a life-altering experience through the reading of Catholic saints' lives and his eventual baptism into Catholicism. This newfound faith not only redefined their personal lives but also reshaped their family dynamics and charitable endeavors. As the eldest of ten children, Dave Leatherby Jr. shares his unique perspective on how his parents' commitment to their faith influenced their family and community, despite facing challenges and anti-Catholic sentiment in their Midwest roots.

In the conversation, Natalie delves into the establishment of Leatherby's Family Creamery, a family business built on the solid foundation of faith and values. Dave Sr.'s unwavering commitment to his Catholic faith permeated every aspect of their lives, from never missing daily Mass to integrating these values into their business. Listen in as they explore how this faith-driven optimism and joy laid the groundwork for a successful and joyful family enterprise, creating a legacy that continues to inspire and connect people through shared experiences and service.

The journey wasn't without its trials, however. You'll hear stories of overcoming financial struggles, skepticism from banks, and the pivotal moments of support from unexpected places, such as the generous loan from Mr. Ratterman and the transformative feature by the Sacramento Bee. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, the importance of community, perseverance, and divine providence in building and sustaining Leatherby's Family Creamery is clear. This episode is a testament to the power of faith, family, and the enduring impact of generosity and kindness in both personal and business life.

To learn more about Leatherby's Family Creamery visit: https://leatherbys.net/
To learn more about the Capital Region Family Business Center visit:https://capfamilybus.org/
To learn more about our sponsor, River City Bank, visit: https://rivercitybank.com/

Episode Highlights
(01:56 - 03:19) Life-Changing Encounter With Catholic Faith
(12:13 - 13:18) Impact of Positive Spirit and Joy
(15:57 - 17:12) From Salesman to Ice Cream Entrepreneur
(20:14 - 21:05) Legacy of Longstanding Ice Cream Parlor
(22:58 - 24:40) Ice Cream Parlor Business Development
(33:05 - 34:20) Leatherby Family Creamy Business Success
(41:36 - 42:52) Family's Contribution to Business Franchise
(47:27 - 48:55) Family Business Struggles and Resilience
(51:51 - 53:05) Importance of Family Business Communication
(01:04:44 - 01:05:50) Act of Kindness in Community

Chapter Summaries
(00:00) Family Embraces Faith and Generosity
Dave Sr. and Sally's transformative journey to Catholicism reshapes their family dynamics and charitable endeavors.

(09:28) Family Business Built on Faith
My father's unwavering Catholic faith shaped our

To learn more about the Capital Region Family Business Center visit our website HERE

Transcript

Steve Fleming: [00:00:00] Hi, my name is Steve Fleming, CEO of River City Bank, which was founded almost 50 years ago. As a leader in a family business myself and a longtime board member for the Capital Region Family Business Center, I understand firsthand how incredibly important family businesses are to our economy and the unique challenges they face in sustaining from generation to generation.

I think that you'll find this podcast series informative, entertaining, and even humorous at times. That's why our family business River City Bank is proud to support this podcast. I hope you enjoy today's episode. 

Jeff Holden: Welcome to this encore episode of a Seat at the table. What better way to invite you to a family business tour and ice cream social at Leatherby's family creamery than to have David Leatherby share the family story first?

The ice cream social takes place at the newest Leatherby's location in Folsom Wednesday, July 23rd from three to [00:01:00] 5:00 PM Space is limited, so be sure to sign up soon and bring the whole family. Register online@capfambus.org. Enjoy this sweet re - treat of the episode. 

David Leatherby: When we opened, we ran outta money, and here we are down a like a couple of weeks before opening and we kept thinking, we'll get open, we'll get open and money will start coming in, and we'll be able to pay these contractors who work for us.

And, uh, it didn't work out that way. And so all of a sudden we have all these bills due and we didn't have any money. I had used all the money that I sold my business. My dad had a partnership dispute, so he didn't. Oh, and my grandfather, who sold his business for millions... The guy he sold the business to raided the trust fund of his insurance company and took millions of dollars.

And my grandfather didn't get paid. And, and the guy who [00:02:00] did that, we, uh, surmised that he had a gambling problem or gambling debts because they found his body in Las Vegas out in the wilderness. And so my grandfather had no money, my dad had no money, and I used all my money so we were in trouble.

Natalie Kling: Hello and welcome to a seat at the table. Trials and triumphs of Family Business brought to you by the Capital Region Family Business Center. Helping family businesses to grow and prosper. I'm Natalie Mariani Kling, your host, and a fourth generation family business member. I am so excited to join you around the table for real conversations about what it's like to grow up in, become a part of and navigate the complexities of a family business.

Special thanks to another family business, river City Bank for their generous [00:03:00] support of this program. In today's episode, we speak with David Leather, be of Leather Bee Family Creamery voted number one ice cream and Sacramento for over 40 years. Dave shares with us how their family's foundation of faith has influenced how they run their business, including extra big Sundays.

We hear about their fast and furious experience in franchising and how after almost losing everything, their family came together again to rebuild what has become a Sacramento legacy. Dave, your dad, Dave Sr. And your mom Sally, were raised in a small farming town in Iowa where your dad had worked for his parents.

Main Street Cafe, which was a very special little cafe, really ended up being a gathering center for the town and the community where the bankers and the business people and the mayor and families would gather, which is actually an important part of this [00:04:00] story that we're gonna come back to. But he and your mom and your grandparents came out west looking for opportunity.

Your dad landed a position with Safeway and was very successful in opening over a hundred of their stores and training their people. And about this time, he and your mom had five kids, you being the oldest and important to note that they would eventually grow their family into 10 children. But about this time, your dad had a life-changing experience when he was called into the office of a man named Bert Bride.

Tell us about this meeting. 

David Leatherby: Good. You summarized that very well. Um, so my dad admired this man deeply. He was a sixth grade educated guy and here he had risen up the ranks in Safeway stores in this big company, and he was in charge of the western U.S. or at least a large portion of the United States.

And, uh, my dad worked for him as they began [00:05:00] expanding. My dad was kind of his assistant in some ways having an education background, and so he began to teach all the managers of these Safeway stores and personnel. And so my dad had a great opportunity to interact with him and saw that this guy was a man who was honorable and hardworking and loved people, and he developed people and he, yet he was strong and tough, right?

He would, anyway, he was the epitome of the kind of person my dad wanted to be like. I remember hearing stories at home as a kid. He would come home and he would talk about this man he worked with. And so one day this guy says to him, uh, Dave, I'd like to talk to you in my office. So, uh, my dad thought, oh, am I in trouble or something?

And he said, you know, I'm taking a chance. We, we may not ever be friends again after this because you may be offended, but I'm not trying to offend you. And so they went in the office and, uh, my dad wonders [00:06:00] what is going on? Uh, am I gonna be fired even? And uh, the guy said, I'm a man of faith. I'm a Catholic.

And he said, uh, I know you too, have a faith, but I want to tell you that I want to challenge you to become more, and I want you to read. About some of these Catholic saints because I think there's more that you could learn to develop yourself, your life, your personhood, right? And, uh, my dad says, whoa, what do you wanna do?

And he gave my dad some books to read and my dad read them. And he, uh, had never looked at himself introspectively like he did as he read these books. And he came back to the man and he said, I've never read anything so profound. I would like to know more. And so my dad, he had this life-changing experience, having read the things that this Burt Bride gave him.

And my dad made a commitment in his life at that point that he [00:07:00] wanted to be different, that he wanted, um, to make a difference in the world. He didn't wanna just work and raise a family, which is important, right? But he, he wanted to make a contribution to the betterment of the world and people. And he wanted to serve people.

So we noticed this change at home even because my dad and my mother began to study and read. And, um, 

Natalie Kling: well, how, as the oldest of five, you really saw from a very unique perspective this shift that your parents made. Yeah. Which became such an important foundation for how they were gonna go forward in their business even.

Yes. Yeah. So what was, from your young boy perspective, what, what did you see as that shift? 

David Leatherby: The priorities in our family, you know, our faith was important before this, but it was equal kind of, uh, on the same level as many other [00:08:00] priorities in our life. And that's just my, my understanding as, you know, a young man, young kid.

And, uh, it became t he primary motivating thing in my dad's life, and I would say probably that he and my mother, especially my dad, you know, he's this real dynamic guy, began to see the value of every human life, you know, the, uh, sacredness of every person, the importance of every single person. And so he began to treat people different.

He acted different, he had different motivations. Uh, he began to work with charities. He began to donate money. So the focus of his life, still his family was very important, changed to a degree, and I could see that. And then openness to life. He just loved people. And they went on to have five more kids.

And I think they were, I think they had really made a decision to stop, [00:09:00] but they went on to be open to life. The word I, I think that entered into his heart and life was generosity. 

Natalie Kling: Yeah, that seems very true as we tell this story that that becomes more and more apparent. 

David Leatherby: Yeah. I know I'm talking a lot about my father, but he's sort of the catalyst behind everything we've done in our life as a family.

He's, uh, pretty dynamic and so when he makes a decision to do something, there is nothing that's gonna change him. He will follow through, even if it means death almost. And so, uh, he becomes a Catholic and he was all in and he decided that he wanted every day to start. With his faith. And so every single day he went to daily Mass and he did that for over 50 years until he died just a couple years ago.

But it wasn't just a commitment to go to mass, it was to never miss daily mass. [00:10:00] So he would take vacations, we would go on family vacations and we're driving across country and he'd planned the trip so that he was gonna be in a certain town when they had mass on every day. He knew, uh, we went to Mexico, we arrive, he knows right where the church is.

And he gets off the plane and he runs across this town and we're following him. He would go on a, like a cruise. He would not go unless there was a priest. And even more, you know, we went up to Lake Shasta and we rented. One of those big houseboats, actually we rented four and tied 'em all together and it was this floating armada and he wouldn't go unless he invited a priest to accompany us.

And we had mass on the beach every day. Wow. So he was very committed and also praying the rosary, you know, he was one of those Catholics and, uh, you'd almost never see him no matter what he was doing without this little thing in his hand. He kept a rosary with him. And, and, uh, just when he was in the hospital at the end here, [00:11:00] before he died, we thought he was getting better and he was going in for a scan, some type of A MRI CT scan something.

And of course they lay, lay you down and you go in to this machine to be scanned. Well, he had a rosary in his hand and the nurse says, Mr. Leather be here, let me take that from you. And he goes, no. And she said, no, we, we can't have that in there. You have to give this to me. He said, no. He says, I won't do it then.

And she said, really? And he goes, yes, I will not let go of this. Wow. So anyway, he was, um, good guy in that way. Yeah. Very convicted, very strong. And yet he was a, a normal person. He never made anybody feel less or he never preached other than through his witness. In his example, he'd walk into the room and he was a light, he was so full of joy and happy and smiling and everyone remembered him.

In fact, our [00:12:00] customers, they all thought that they were one of his best friends because he made everybody feel that way. 

Natalie Kling: Yeah. Yeah. And you, you had mentioned that really was a change. I mean, he was a spirited, open person maybe before, but you really saw a shift in him in terms of that consistent joy. 

David Leatherby: Yeah, he, uh, people, people laugh because they would see him and he always, always had a smile on his face.

And uh, some people would go, why is that guy always smiling? But he did. He was, um, he loved life, he loved everything and he was a, just an eternal optimist. Used to drive my mother crazy 'cause he would never see the downside to anything. Everything was gonna work out. He would ride down art and way. Busy street.

Right. Uh, packed with cars. He would ride on his bike with his [00:13:00] apron on that said, daddy, Dave's and I used to get embarrassed. I'd say, dad, people are gonna think you're crazy. That's okay. That's okay. And he would wave to the cars riding down the street with a daddy, Dave's apron waving, smiling, and people remember him like that.

Gosh. Yeah, he was, he was so amazing. He just was full of joy, which is what he wanted to impart in his business life, which we'll get to in a moment. 

Natalie Kling: That's right. Because I think the reason I wanted to lay this foundation of faith for our audience is because it really led him then to look for something in which he could play out.

His faith, he could play out his commitment to people, to connection, to love to service. And so now let's fast forward a little bit. So you graduate college, you actually have your own business and sell it. You're very successful at a young age and you're kind of thinking about what your next move is gonna be.[00:14:00] 

Your grandfather Albert, he had retired recently and your dad decides, I wanna find a business that my whole family could be involved in where I could really live out this faith in these, this belief of mine. So tell us about that time and how that led you to eventually find Leatherby's Family creamery.

David Leatherby: Okay. Yeah, my dad was always dissatisfied. In his, uh, business life, he was very successful. We came to Sacramento and he began to sell appliances and he, his first line of appliances was speed queen washing machines. Speed Queen had never really sold to the public. It was more laundromats, commercial stuff.

And they gave my dad this territory and he wanted to move to Sacramento area because he thought it was a better place to raise his family than Los Angeles, which is where we lived. So he moved here for his family, but he took a [00:15:00] job. And at that time we had eight kids and we drove up here and it was like the Beverly Hillbillies with the, the two dogs in the trailer and piled with stuff.

And we drove up here and, um, my dad began selling speed Queen. Nobody had ever sold Speed Queen in this area. It's a brand new territory. For the first month, he didn't make one single sale. Of course, my mother, she's so concerned. What are we gonna do? How are we gonna support this family? Well, anyway, just to show you what a Dunham mc person he was, he went on to become the number one salesman in the United States for Speed Queen.

So anyway, pretty amazing. And uh, he would just do. You know, because he was so energetic and dynamic, he would do silly things. Like he'd climb up in the washing machine and turn it on and he would stand up there shaking, you know, when the thing turned. And he would say, you see how powerful and [00:16:00] strong this machine is?

Nobody else has a machine like this. And he would do these things that people would remember him. So anyway, he went from there, but still he's selling something that is a, is a product. And so he had to be a witness and an example of his joy and his faith indirectly. Right. Which was okay, but he wanted something that he could.

Do more directly to make a contribution to the world and the community where he lived. So that's how we came to ice cream. 

Natalie Kling: So your dad is, is looking for something that he can really walk his faith and make money and support his family. And tell me about how that coincided with selling your business and your grandfather becoming available and how, what were those conversations like and how did that get started?

David Leatherby: Okay. Well this was really the start of our, our family business. Each one of us, we, I never thought about it, [00:17:00] but each one of us was an entrepreneur. Each one of us had started our own business. My grandfather, he started his own insurance brokerage company and they became the largest at that time in the state of California.

He was an entrepreneur, but he retired and he sold his business to a gentleman who was supposed to be very wealthy. Well to do, he sold his business and so he's retired now. And my dad, he had a big distribution company, little speed queen washing machines, grew to a big distribution company where they had all kinds of products to sell.

And my dad had a dispute with partners, so it was, it was difficult for him. So he is. Walking away from that business. And I had started outta college. I started retail appliance store selling microwave ovens. And at the time, microwave ovens were brand new and people were afraid of them. They thought they might cause cancer, they didn't know how to use 'em.

They were scary 'cause they cooked with no heat. [00:18:00] So I started these microwave oven stores and built kitchens in each one and had a home economist. So when people came in, I could show them how to cook and how to use them. And so I had a big success. And I had five microwave oven stores with, I don't know, 40 or 50 employees, and I was 23.

And so I had a guy come and make me an offer and I sold it. So here my grandfather's retired, my dad is outta business and I'm outta business almost within the same month. Wow. And so my dad. Being a man of, uh, who is so committed to his family. He said, I wanna do something that my family can be involved in, and I wanna do something that I can work that will make a contribution to the community that will be better.

He said, you know, I remember that Main Street Cafe, everybody coming in, this little town in Iowa, all these people, and it was a gathering place. And he said it was so beautiful, it was a [00:19:00] gem in this little town. And he said, I, I, I'd like to do something. And he wasn't even thinking of a restaurant because he didn't wanna run a restaurant.

So what ended up happening is I have a sister, uh, Shelly. Number three, child outta 10, and she's at Samuel Merrit School of Nursing down in Oakland. And she calls on the phone to my dad and says, dad, you gotta come see this ice cream parter because we used to make homemade ice cream with the crank, you know the, where you put the salt on it and the ice and you crank it?

Uh oh yeah. That's the way we grew up making homemade ice cream. So anyway, my dad went down and it was a business that was, had been established for 80 years. It was owned by a family previously who owned a dairy in the Bay Area, and they. Decided that since they have a dairy, they're gonna open an ice cream parlor.

And they did. And it had been down in Oakland for 80 years, this big ice cream parlor. [00:20:00] So we decide to go down and visit. We go on a Saturday and we walk up and it's Saturday afternoon. And we get there and there's a line out the door all the way around the building. I mean a long line. And so we stood in line and my dad says, look at this, this, this is amazing.

Look at the, it's been here this long. And yet it's still so popular. 'cause a lot of times business, they have a life, they have, every business has its time. And here this business had been here all this time. So we finally get in there, we sit down and we see these gargantuan sundaes. They were so big that they were laughable.

I've never seen ice cream sundaes. Most ice cream is small because you don't want to eat too much. Right? This was the opposite. And uh, my dad. Loved it. He said, look at this. Look at what they're doing. Look at all these people. They don't even weigh anything. He said they're, they're so generous, right?

Because ice cream is sold by [00:21:00] volume, right? And he says they don't even know if they're making money, I don't think. Look at, they're just giving people these big portions. And then the waitresses come by. Well, this little dairy, family dairy, an ice cream parlor had been purchased by a big corporation. And the people working now in the ice cream parlor were union people who they kind of farmed out to finish their career.

And the waitresses were grumpy old ladies. Everyone was old and, uh, had a sour look on their face and was irritated with all this customers. They had no patience. They would come up and take your order. Are you ready to order yet? No. I can see you're not. I'll be back and hurry up. I I, I've got outta the tables of wait on, I mean, they were just rude.

And my dad laughed. He said, imagine the success we could have if we treated people right And offered these generous portions, right. He [00:22:00] said, this is it. This is what I wanna do. There was no change in his mind. So, uh, we left there and we thought, we don't know how to make ice cream. We don't know anything about sundaes and portioning and what cups and glasses to use, and we don't know anything.

How do you set up a restaurant? How do you, so anyway, my dad called this national dairy. It was foremost. They're not in business anymore. They've sold, but it was foremost dairy. You might remember, you know them 'cause they were strong here in Northern California. And he called up foremost and he said, Hey, you have an ice cream part of there and I wanna open one.

And they said, you do? And my dad said, I'll tell you what, I promise that I'll buy all our milk and cream and everything from you if you'll help me set up a business. Wow. And so anyway, we became lifelong friends with that guy that was on the other end of the phone. He was [00:23:00] one of the executives at Foremost Dairy.

And he said, you got a deal. And so he allowed us to come and work in the ice cream parlor as servers, as ice cream makers, as dispensers, scooping ice cream. And my mom, my wife, me and my dad. All of us worked in that ice cream parlor for a period of time, taking notes. And we said, but we don't know how to make the ice cream the recipes.

And the guy says, I'm gonna help you develop your own recipes. And so he helped us. It was a, an amazing gift. But, uh, this guy saw something in my dad, I guess, that he wanted to help him. And so we spent a year traveling around visiting every ice cream parlor in California, probably sampling their products, taking notes.

It was a hard job to do that sample, all that ice cream. But anyway, and so at the end of the year, we had this plan [00:24:00] developed and we decided we're gonna do it. 

Natalie Kling: You decide to open your very first ice cream parlor. Is that the one on Arden Way? It is, 

David Leatherby: it's the original one. 

Natalie Kling: How much time between you guys.

Deciding you were gonna do that, you spent your year kind of researching. Mm-hmm. And then how much time before you opened? 

David Leatherby: Probably another six months or so. So it was less than two years from the time we made the decision to doing it. And you know, we're living off savings. We don't have jobs, so we hired a restaurant consultant to lay out a plan for us and we didn't know what we were doing really.

And, uh, my mother, she was very detailed, you know, my dad's the whirlwind and she's the one who cleans up after 'em and she's the one who helped do all the portioning and the pricing and our menu and detailing which cups we use and how we make each Sunday and things like that. My mother and my wife together with her, they did that and so they did all that.

My dad [00:25:00] was the catalyst behind it, and I was more kind of the business side. Bankers and real estate and financing and you know, all those kinds of things. But of course I waited tables in our ice cream parlor when we opened. I ran the cash register 'cause it was a real family effort. So I. I have to tell you because I think it's really important.

You know, you, you look at the success we've had, and a lot of people say, my gosh, look at the leather bees. They've done well. They have a recognizable name. They're kind of this iconic business in California, Northern California, and they don't see the adversity. And so when we opened, we ran outta money. It costs more than we thought.

And here we are down a like a couple of weeks before opening and we kept thinking, we'll get open, we'll get open and money will start coming in, and we'll be able to pay these contractors who work for [00:26:00] us. And, uh, it didn't work out that way. And so all of a sudden we have all these bills due and we didn't have any money.

I had used all the money that I sold my business. My dad had a partnership dispute, so he didn't, oh, and my grandfather. Who sold his business for millions. The guy he sold the business to raided the trust fund of his insurance company and took millions of dollars. And my grandfather didn't get paid. And, and the guy who did that, we, uh, surmised that he had a gambling problem or gambling debts because they found his body in Las Vegas out in the wilderness.

And so my grandfather had no money, my dad had no money, and I used all my money. So we're out, and here we are, plan the advertising. It's gonna run in the bee and all of those things. And we think we're gonna have to call 'em and tell 'em, don't run the advertising, and we have to tell the contractors, we can't pay you.

And we went to the bank, of course, and the bank thinks [00:27:00] we're crazy already because we're gonna open a 6,000 square foot ice cream parlor. And they never heard of such a thing. So we were in trouble. It was a real difficult time. And my dad, all of a sudden, he had, I think from the stress, he had these stomach pains and he went in the hospital and I think, oh my gosh, here I am now.

I'm 24, 25, right? And I think, oh my gosh, I gotta tell all these people, we can't pay the bills. I gotta call everybody. We have to bear this humiliation of telling people we, we aren't gonna open my dad. Before he went in the hospital, he said, don't worry, it'll work out. I remember I got mad at him, right?

Dad? Dad, you just can't be optimistic like this. You have to be realistic. He says, Nope, God will take care of us anyway. God will take care of us. So he's in the hospital. I'm home with my mom. I. [00:28:00] She is distraught because my dad and her are kind of in some ways, you know, they're this great team, but they're opposites, right?

They each fill the void, the other leaves, it was really difficult for her and so it was a tough time. Phone rings and it's my dad, and he asked for me and he said, David, I go, yeah. How you doing, dad? I'm fine, I'm fine. Hey, I just want to tell you, there's two guys that have been working for us in construction.

It's his family and their name is Ratterman, the Ratterman family. And he says, uh, old Mr. Ratterman. They got 10 kids like we do, and his boys have been working for us to help build the ice cream parlor. And he kind of heard that we're a little short of money and he came to visit me in the hospital. And here I thought, well, they got 10 kids.

They're probably as tight as we are right financially. He said, uh, Mr. Radman asked me, he says, I hear you might need a little funding. How much do you need? [00:29:00] And I don't remember exactly how much it was, but in nineteen eighty two, a hundred fifty to $200,000 was a lot of money. And he told Mr. Rodman, I, well, I need, I think it might have been 150,000.

And he says, okay, I'm gonna help you. Pulled out a checkbook. And he wrote a check. Crazy, huh? So we got started on a shoestring. That's how we got started. And uh, for two weeks. I had to stop some of the advertising 'cause we couldn't pay for it for two weeks. We hardly had a soul coming in. A few family friends came in 'cause they felt sorry for us, you know, our friends, but we didn't have a big rush.

And then some reporter from the Sacramento Bee wanders in and says, Hey, I heard about this. Can I talk to somebody? Talks to my dad. He gives the [00:30:00] tour, he takes 'em in the freezer. He shows him how to make ice cream. He shows him these big sundaes. The Sacramento Bee Reporter did like a two page photoed article on this family business.

10 kids. We never looked back within two days. Lines out the door. It's history. 

Natalie Kling: That's amazing. 

David Leatherby: So, so I challenge Mikuni's a little bit for the, the best story on that. 

Natalie Kling: That's right, that's right. If you haven't heard our Mikuni's podcast, there's a very similar story. It just goes to show sometimes the magic of life that happens when you really believe, yeah, whatever you believe.

When you really believe and you really work your hardest, you put everything on the line. You had not one more dollar no to y'all's name and what a beautiful miracle [00:31:00] that came through. 

David Leatherby: I don't think anything great happens without that kind of adversity. 'cause it steals you, it makes you strong at, uh, your convictions.

You have to be all in. And that's what we were very fortunate, very blessed, but, uh, it was not easy. 

Natalie Kling: That's right. Is this about the same time when your, uh, dad being the eternal optimist, said, we need to give free ice cream to people, and your mom's saying, hold up. Paid with what? 

David Leatherby: Yes. Tell us 

Natalie Kling: that story.

David Leatherby: Okay. So at the same time that we have this, uh, person come in from the Sacramento Bee, maybe a little bit before that, my dad said, you know what we have to do in order to receive, we must give right from his faith. And he says, we're gonna go out and we're gonna give free ice cream to everybody up and down Arden way.

All the businesses, everyone we're gonna give away free [00:32:00] ice cream sundaes. And my mother, I thought she was gonna have a heart attack. She goes, we don't have any money to do that, and you're gonna go and give away all the product we've got in the freezer. She goes, it's crazy. And he goes, no, no, no. If you give, people will come.

And so we printed up these flyers, leather Bee Family, creamy Family Business opens, and it was a free Sunday for each one. And he had our employees, our first employees that we were training, that we had no business. He had 'em walk down the streets and go into the neighborhoods and go everywhere, giving away free ice cream.

And so it was about the same time that that Bee Reporter came in and I don't know, maybe they heard about the free ice cream we were giving away. I don't know how they happened to come in. It was amazing. The people came in with free Sunday coupons and they'd bring eight members of their family, their friends friends.

And so giving away one [00:33:00] free Sunday to sell 10, it was a great proposition, right? Uh, we were just inundated with business. 

Natalie Kling: What was it about leather bees that continued that popularity? Because it's one thing to start it and have those lines out the door the first couple weeks. But what was it about your family that made it so special that allowed it to grow and sustain in the way that it has?

David Leatherby: I don't think in the beginning we, as three people forming a business with our spouses. I don't think we realized the understanding that each of us had about business. We kind of, uh, looked at ourselves as, gosh, we're these rookies? We didn't know how to open an ice cream parlor, right? But yet we had run businesses successfully.

And so I think one of the main things is we knew how to treat people, customers, to appreciate them, to be grateful, to welcome them in, to [00:34:00] express gratitude that they're here, to thank them. So people I think came in and they were overwhelmed with this euphoric, happy feeling. It was like Disneyland sort of.

So I think that's one thing. The second thing is my dad's philosophy, generosity. Every Sunday was enormous. People would come in and they would say, I, I, I can't eat all of that. You expect me to eat that Sunday. And my dad says, just try it. Just try it. And these little old ladies, they would, they would wolf down these giant Sundays.

They would, it was funny watching it, right? And he'd come back and he'd laugh. And then the funny thing is here they complained. It was too big. But the next day they're bringing in all their friends. And they said, the little old ladies, don't tell 'em how big they are. Don't tell 'em, you know? So I think, I think the second thing was this generous spirit generosity.

And then I think the last thing, [00:35:00] and this may be the most important factor, and something that every business can learn from when we hired people, I. My dad, he had a patron Saint, Saint Therese, and they call her the little flower. And she died when she was 24 years old. And she wrote a book on her life called The Story of a Soul.

And it's a book my dad read. That was one of those things that catalyst to change his life. And one of the statements that she would make is she would say, I was unhappy until I forgot myself. I was unhappy until I forgot myself. So if you turn that around in order to be happy, forget yourself and think of others.

Right. So when we would hire people, we would ask questions that would help us determine whether the person was a generous, giving person with a good heart, with a heart of joy, who not [00:36:00] selfish, not self-centered. If anybody was like that, we just didn't say anything. They didn't get the job. So almost all the employees we hired, we would try to hire people with a very generous heart, and that's what we called it.

We're looking for the heart. And so I think customers came in and they would say, gosh, where did they get All these people who are so happy? Yeah, that's what continued our, and still today, that's it. You know, I go out to the Sacramento airport and I'll show my credit card when I walk up to the, the gal selling tickets, right.

And I'll give her the credit card and they'll look and they'll say, oh, leather bee, are you related to the ice cream people? And I say, yes, as a matter of fact, that's my family business. And this is the thing, nine outta 10 times, they don't say, I love your ice cream nine outta 10 times. They'll say, where do you get those people that work for you?[00:37:00] 

So anyway, that's one of our missions is to develop people. 

Natalie Kling: When you're hiring, are you transparent about that or how do you communicate with your employees about it? 

David Leatherby: After we hire them, we tell them what we saw in them. Yes. To reinforce that we do. And every employee meeting we talk about that the reason you were hired, because it's, it's easy to take a job and to get into a rut and just come in every day and do the same thing.

And we want them to know that we hired them because they're supposed to fill a void in every customer that walks in the door. Okay. People can get ice cream anywhere. They don't even need to eat ice cream. Right. It's not an essential, it's not like going to a restaurant or somewhere where you need to get food.

You have to eat leather bees. They come there and we realized early on they really don't come just for the ice cream. They come because they want to slice. Of joy. They want a little [00:38:00] bit of happiness. They wanna have an experience that lifts them up, you know? And so we tell our employees, it's you that fill that void.

They come in here and they're gonna get ice cream and they're gonna think it's a lot. And, but when you treat them with respect, right? As a special person, every person's special. We make our employees look people in the eye and speak to them. How often do you go into a business and they say, hi, welcome.

And they don't even look at you, right? Or the server, are you ready to order or never do that. It's, hi, thank you for coming in. Welcome to Leather Bess. We hope you have a great time. It's a different feeling. And so our employees are the ones who impart that whatever it is that heart needs, it's pretty amazing.

Natalie Kling: That is amazing. That is very cool. As you guys were developing this, so, so it becomes such a [00:39:00] success and people are really now recognizing it and, and now they're wanting to be a part of it and they're even asking you how they can be financially a part of it. And so this leads to your family considering franchising.

David Leatherby: Yes. 

Natalie Kling: Tell us about how that started and where that went. 

David Leatherby: Well, we were, we were really, truly inundated with people calling us. They saw the lines, they saw the success, they saw the joy, and many people wanted to be a part of it. And they would come to us, can I buy a franchise? Can I pay you for information?

Will you help me set up my own ice cream parlor in Phoenix? All of these people, and we were inundated. And so my dad felt that maybe this was the way that God was calling us to expand this gift, this joy, this business. Right. And he, he felt that, and. So what we did was we set about forming a franchise company.

We went, department of [00:40:00] Corporations, developed a franchise, manual training manuals. We did all this and we started selling franchises and we sold over 30 franchises within just a short period of time. And then we have to get 'em open. So I was the one who formed the company to hire the architects, the engineers, the equipment designers, the trainees, the or the trainers, you know, our staff and organize all of these things.

And my dad. He would deal with the franchisees, he would talk to them about our concept. He would take the money to purchase the franchise, and he would go help 'em find a location. So all looks great, right? All looks beautiful. It looks like, my gosh, we even got calls from Disneyland. They wanted us to put an ice cream parlor on Main Street, a leather piece.

Wow. I mean, and so you think all of a sudden we've hit the big time. But what we didn't realize [00:41:00] was the contribution that our family made to the success of the business. We didn't recognize who we were and what our strengths were and all those things. And so we sold franchises to really good people. But they didn't have a background.

They didn't have the training. They were successful in some other area of their life. Very successful. Right. But they didn't have the knowledge of. How to hire and how to promote and how to treat people. And uh, this spirit of generosity and those kinds of things. It was really hard to give them something that we had had to learn over years and years.

And so we put people in franchises who weren't probably prepared to do it, and they hired absentee managers who treated it like a franchise. You know, you walk in and it wasn't the same. And the thing my dad did, he wanted to help people so he would help guarantee their [00:42:00] leases. So he guaranteed a lot of the leases.

Fast forward, we opened 28 franchises in two years. Tremendous success. A few of them failed. They didn't make it. The people wanted out. It was too much for 'em. They didn't know how to do all of these things. You know, you have to have advertising experience and training and business and marketing and finance and all this background that all of us, my dad and I, and my grandfather had, right?

And uh, they didn't make it. So these few out of the 28, they sued us. You sold us a concept that doesn't work. We want our money back. And besides that, we're not gonna pay our rent anymore. So we got sued by the landlords and we got sued by the franchisees, and some of the franchisees had syndicated the franchise.

In other words, in order to raise the money, they went out and sold investments in a leather beast's franchise. So not only now we're getting sued by [00:43:00] all their partners. My dad and I probably had 30 or 40 lawsuits all with a short period of time. It was terrible. It was like being at the bottom of purgatory.

It was so difficult. And then the, the other difficult thing was you think, well, we'll just file bankruptcy and let the bankruptcy court work it out. But we were sued for fraud. It's not dischargeable in bankruptcy, it's criminal. And so we couldn't get out from under this. It was just devastating. It buried us.

And so for three years we were in lawsuits. We sold the franchise company, uh, had to put it in bankruptcy, sold it, and then we had to fight lawsuit after lawsuit, going to court. And that was my job. 27. I was in court every day for three years almost. It was so terrible. And out of all of that, some of the businesses kept the name Leather [00:44:00] Bees most took their own last name.

And this tremendous success story. I had trouble going to church and looking across the aisle because people would look and they'd go, oh, there's, look at, that's the guy whose name's in the paper. That's the one. And uh, so it was humiliating to lose our business, to lose our reputation. It was so tough that I left the business for a period of time.

My dad and mom lost their house, had to rent a home, and my dad went back to being the ice cream maker. He made ice cream every day. You know, sort of a, a humble position. And so we went from nothing to tremendous success. Back to one little leather bees, ice cream parlor. 

Natalie Kling: At this time, you understandably take a moment for yourself and try to figure out what you're gonna do next.

Was that a healthy decision? Did it give you [00:45:00] what you needed to then be able to come back? Tell us about. How you were doing then, because the other side to the coin that we actually hadn't talked about is, you know, you and your dad and your grandfather being three strong entrepreneurs and starting a business.

And maybe not defining from the very beginning who, who was gonna have the last say and who, you know, how you were gonna split up the roles and, and all of that. Just being very positive and, and knowing that you were gonna build this business together. And then you go through this exceptionally difficult time.

And I can imagine that that would've put some strain on your relationships and your connection that you felt to the family. And can you tell us a little bit about that and, and how, how you kind of came back? 

David Leatherby: Sure. It did. Exactly. It puts strain on our relationship because my dad, being the [00:46:00] dynamic guy, he would set his mind on something and he would want to do it, and my grandfather and I didn't wanna do it right.

Some of these things like guaranteeing all those leases, we didn't wanna do that. We thought it put it at us at risk, which it did, right? But my dad said, oh, don't worry, if they don't make it, we'll just put in another franchise, you know, we'll take care of it. We're fine. So the difficult thing was my father's attributes, his dynamism, his optimism, his indomitable spirit.

The other side of the coin is sometimes he wasn't practical. As a young man, I, I began to blame my dad. For our, our fall. I was angry. He didn't listen. He was bullheaded. And so I didn't wanna work with my dad anymore. It was tough. My grandfather now is of the age where he's really getting old and so he, he can't work.

And so I left the [00:47:00] family business. Well, one reason is because it couldn't support me anymore. There was no place for me to earn a, a living. I had my, i my own four children. And so I left the family business. And my dad and I, our relationship was really strained for a while. And I decided that I wanted to go into a business where I had no employees, no responsibility to anyone else, no rent.

And I went into commercial real estate and thought, you know what? My success is gonna depend on me. And I did that for a period of time. And I was successful and did well, but my dad, he continued to run the little ice cream parlor with my mom and my wife. They continued working there and I began to see my dad differently that look at him, he's still providing for his family, but in a little way, a humble way.

He's making ice cream, he's doing deliveries. [00:48:00] It was a real knockdown, but he was still the same person. He loved people. He was happy just in a little way, and I began realizing everything my day. He didn't intentionally try to do these things right. I took the good, why wouldn't I take the bad too? And so our relationship began to improve and uh, pretty soon I grew again in an even greater way to respect my dad because he was so humble.

You know, you can't be a humble person. It began to grow again, and we became friends again, and I would seek his advice in my real estate business because he was amazing. And so we became friends again, and at a certain point in real estate, there was a downturn in the market and I thought, you know what?

I've made a lot of money. I'm gonna go back into my family business. We have one ice cream parlor. I'm gonna go back and we're gonna do it as a [00:49:00] family and not franchise, but do it ourselves. 

Natalie Kling: Was that difficult that your wife was working still in the business while you were outta the business? And how did you, as a married couple navigate that?

David Leatherby: Yeah, there's a, a longer answer and I'm gonna give you the longer answer if it's okay. Sure. Uh, we realized early on in a family business when you have so many family involved. Now, I had brothers and sisters working in the business. I had relatives, cousins had moved out from Iowa. We had all these people.

And you realize that in order for the business to succeed, you cannot bring your problems home because the problems are at the business and your home needs to be your place of refuge, your home. And so we would not talk about things like that. We would talk about 'em at work. That's okay, but not at home.

And the other thing we realized is if you have an [00:50:00] issue with a family member, you don't tell somebody else. You don't go, gosh, he's da, da da, or she's da da da. Do you see what she, because it's, that becomes like a cancer. And then you have people taking sides and it causes division. So if we ever had issues with people, if somebody came up to you and they started to tell you about a problem they had with somebody, we would put our hands up and say, uh.

You gotta go tell them. You gotta talk to the person you have the problem with. And so we learned early on that you don't gossip, that you don't bring the problems home and that you deal with the person. And it was like a miracle when we started doing these things, that those problems started going away.

You know, the problems of a family business. And the other thing is the dynamo in the family. There's always one, there's always a leader, right? There always is. There's one that's stronger, or at least in a certain area, and you gotta get them to ask the [00:51:00] opinion of the rest of the family. And you have to be considerate.

You may think you are a hundred percent right. And you might be, and you might be smarter than everybody, but you have to ask everybody's opinion. This is what I'm thinking. What do you think? Because what happens then is a lot of times what they were thinking is perfected by the other people. What did you think of doing this too?

And did you think of trying it this way? And so what happens is you got the mind of everybody contributing, or they would say, Hey, wait a minute, did you think of this downside in that? And the person who's the dynamo would say, oh, I didn't think of that. And so asking others' opinion in a family business is so important.

Even if you're the boss. 

Natalie Kling: Now I'm gonna go out on a limb and, and, and assume that this was Dave Sr. That you had to coax to ask others. Did he come along? Yes. With that? 

David Leatherby: Actually it was hard for him. It was really [00:52:00] hard at times. He would, he would get angry if you said, Hey, I don't agree. He would get mad and he'd say, then you should just quit.

Go get another job. He was so tough, right? He, yeah, he, he didn't mean it, but he was so convicted, you know, and it was hard and it took a period of time. It, it actually took this fall for my dad to change. He was always a great man, but he became a greater man. And so, you know, I look back this terrible adversity.

Me personally, I lost my business. I lost my income, I lost my home. Everything. My job, I lost everything. And I said, gosh, at least I'm so grateful. I have my family. And then one day my wife came and she says, I'm not happy. And I was devastated. I almost lost my family. Thank heaven we worked through those issues, right?

Because, [00:53:00] so much strain on the family, but at a certain point, I too was greatly humbled and I had to learn a lot, right? So I think going through the adversity, I look back now at that adversity. Would I ever want to go through that again? Never in a million years. It was hard. Am I grateful that I went through it?

Absolutely. I look back and we didn't quit. If we had quit, I wouldn't be the same, nor would my dad. We never quit. But I look back on that adversity and it was purifying who you are, what you are, what's important in life, what you value, you know, all of those things. And so I would tell people, marriage troubles, business troubles, all of those things don't quit because there is another side and you will be better having gone through it.

It's too easy to stop and quit. [00:54:00] Right? And I think we do because we say, I'm not happy. I don't see any hope for the future. I'm gonna quit. There's always hope Miracles happen. Does that answer your question? 

Natalie Kling: Yes. That's fantastic. That's really neat. So then tell us how the Leather Bee family rebuilt.

Leather be family creamery. 

David Leatherby: So my dad is retired. My mom comes in today, she's still 87, 88 years old. She still comes in every day and she'll do the deposit and she'll look through the paperwork and she'll check things and she always finds things that we're not doing right or things to help us. It's the most amazing thing, you know?

So now I came back into the business and there was a leather bees franchise out near Roseville and it was a franchise and the guy was getting older and I told my brother, let's buy it now. We'll have two, we'll have our original one and we'll have our second one. [00:55:00] Let's start that way. Well, I went out there and I talked to the uh, landlord.

I said, I wanna buy your building. 'cause that's what I had done, commercial real estate. I knew how to do it. My brother didn't know how to do that. And we bought our building. Then we turned around and bought the building on Arden way that we'd been attend in for over 30 years. We'd been paying rent, we bought the building on Arden Way and we leased it out.

So all of a sudden now we have sources of income and assets and we're strengthening our family position. And I, I believe that the timing was right to do this for our family. You know, we got younger kids coming up and they wanna work. So I knew a guy in real estate. Uh, his name was Pappas and I'd heard of him, although I hadn't worked with him, I knew he was a big developer and we're contacted and I hear that he has a building for a lease that was occupied by a restaurant that had gone outta business in Elk Grove.

So I [00:56:00] called him and we talked and it had all the equipment, all the hood, stainless steel, a million dollars of equipment, all the plumbing. And so we were able. To sign a lease in Elk Grove and open a third ice cream parlor. Okay, so now we have three, and all three are doing really well. So I told my brother, Hey, this is a nice income for us, right?

We got three ice cream parlors. What we got your son and my son and others, we need to do another one. And so I called that same developer from Folsom and I said, I want to do an ice cream parlor, but I want to own the building. He says, I don't sell buildings. And I said, well then I'm really sorry, but we're probably gonna have to move out of your building in Elk Grove.

We were a central part of that shopping center, right? We have 50,000 customers a month coming through leather bees, [00:57:00] and it helped him and he says, no, I don't want you to leave. I'll make you a really good deal. And I said, I need to buy a building. I cannot get 10 or 20 years down the road and have nothing to show.

He said, okay. I have a building in Lincoln that I own, and I'll sell it to you, but there's a building right next to it, and it's a twin and you have to buy two buildings. Oh. He was really a good man and very generous and very helpful. And through COVID he held the price. He didn't raise the price and he put one or two tenants in the building adjacent and he sold me the building for the price he had given me without tenants, without all those tenant improvements.

Wow. I mean, it, it was amazing. He was a really a good man, Pappas family. Not just the one, but all the Pappas. And, uh, we bought two more buildings and now we have a fourth ice cream parlor and we own four buildings, and it helped. [00:58:00] And then the Papes called us again and he said, I'm in escrow to buy a shopping center in Folsom.

And there's an empty restaurant out on a pad. And I said, will you sell me the building? And he goes, no, I won't, but I'll make you a deal. And I said, I can't rent. He made us a tremendous offer that helped us. We opened our fifth ice cream parlor in Folsom. So this Pappas family is, uh, really instrumental in helping us to grow.

And I know that we help them in their shopping centers, our business, right? The presence of leather bees is a good presence 'cause we're busy. But they were great people. So my brother and I, now we have five. Our boys work in the business. We've started giving them shares of ownership. Our grandkids, my grandkids work with us.

I have three granddaughters working in the business. You know, they're in college and high school and they're working. And [00:59:00] so now it's back to what my dad hoped it would be. 

Natalie Kling: When your dad passed, what was the state of the business? 

David Leatherby: He died four years ago, so we had three ice cream parlors, so the last two he didn't get to see, but if you go in them, I got his picture in there and we, we had this metal bench, like a, a park bench constructed for Folsom, and we had it handmade, you know, welded and handmade and on it is my dad's favorite poem.

Okay. Every single employee meeting we had, my dad would begin the meeting by quoting this poem from memory that he knew it was called The Value of a Smile. This poem. I don't know if you've ever read it. I was gonna bring it today so I could read it to you, but I, I didn't. But anyway, it's called The Value of a Smile.

And my dad would quote it. It's really great. [01:00:00] You know, a smile is the greatest gift you can give somebody. 'cause some people have none, cost you nothing, but it has infinite value. And he would say this. So anyway, we made this bench at Folsom and there's a picture of my mom and dad on the bench welded into it.

And then the whole backside of the bench is this poem that's engraved in the bench. Wow. Anyway, so my dad is part of, uh, our continuing operation. A big part, you know, I talk a lot about him, but, uh, I think my brother and I, we've done a good job of emulating him and carrying on his traditions. We still hire the same way, we train the same way.

We try to give these big portions be generous. We never, ever say no to anyone who comes in our restaurant and asks us for something. And we get asked by every ball, team, club, organization, church group, school class, everyone, [01:01:00] everyone asks, can I get a donation? Can you help us with ice cream? Can you do this?

And, you know, we made a decision that we would find a way to say yes to every person. Maybe we can't give them everything they want, but we always give. And to give you an idea of how that comes back, I was in a business the other day. And my car broke down. So I took it into a car repair place and I said, can you help me?

And he goes, oh yeah. He says, uh, gimme your name. Oh, you're a member of the leather BE'S family. He said, oh, that's great. So he fixes my car. Shock had to be rewelded. It was broken and it was probably cheap. He had to raise it up. So I pick it up and I come and I say, uh, thank you very much for helping me.

He goes, great. Your car's out there. Here's your keys. And I said, well, I haven't paid you yet. He says, I don't want any money. I don't want any money. He said, you guys, you do [01:02:00] so much for the community. He says, I feel like if if I give you this free, I'm helping too. And that guy wouldn't charge me to fix my truck.

Isn't that amazing? Anyway, 

Natalie Kling: amazing. Amazing. Oh, Dave, I could listen to the, your stories all day long. I do have two final questions. One is we had mentioned a little bit about, you know, for other family businesses who need support and are looking for resources. How has the Family Business Center helped you out of Sacramento?

Have there been connections made that have given wisdom to your family along the way? 

David Leatherby: Yeah. The answer is yes. You know, a number of the people that are involved, especially like, like the Fat family, Kevin Fat, he's been so wonderful. He invited us to attend some of the meetings. We got to know who was involved.

We became friends with some of these people. But how has this business center helped us? Those members who we met, we have had an opportunity to contact them when we have [01:03:00] questions, when we're not sure which direction to go, what to do, how to handle a problem, uh, how to advertise all these questions. And we've been able to get on the phone and call members of the Family Business Center because we now know who they are.

Right. And we, we realize they're just like us. Most of 'em are probably bigger, but they're just like us. We have received so much help from the members of the Family business center, support everything, advice. So we've been the beneficiary of all those good folks. 

Natalie Kling: That's great. That's awesome. And do you believe that the success of leather bees has been due more to hard work or luck?

David Leatherby: You know, I guess the word luck. I don't believe in it. You know, you've heard people say the harder I work, the luckier I get. Right? But I don't think it's just hard work, although it has been. If we didn't work hard, we wouldn't be successful. [01:04:00] I do believe with all my heart that we've been blessed that divine providence has walked us through adversity and trials and fire and difficulty, but always.

When we need help at the right point, we have been given blessings and graces, so I would say I would attribute it to divine providence. 

Natalie Kling: Dave, thank you so much for sharing your story so openly. You have a beautiful story and to share with us all the ups and downs, and for most of us in Sacramento, to be able to just go to your parlor and, and experience it ourselves.

How, how lucky are we? So, thank you very much. 

David Leatherby: Well, thank you for saying that. It's been nice talking with you. You too. You, we would hire you by the way. You, you got the right qualifications. I qualifications.

Natalie Kling: Alright. Hey, that's the best compliment you could gimme. [01:05:00] 

David Leatherby: Alright, thank you. It's been nice talking to you too.

Natalie Kling: Thank you for listening to a Seat at the Table Trials and Triumphs of Family Business. If you like what you heard today, please be sure to subscribe. Post a positive review and share with another family business owner. For more information about the Capital Region Family Business Center, visit cap family biz org.

That's cap family b.org. You can also follow us on Facebook at Capital Region Family Business Center and on Instagram at Cap fam Bizz, BIZ. If you know of other family businesses that have a story to share, please contact the Family Business Center at info@capfamilybiz.org. That's BUS. We're grateful for the support from River City Bank to make this program [01:06:00] possible and special thanks to Guy Raz from how I built this for a wonderful closing question that's become one of our favorites.

Steve Fleming: Hi, my name is Steve Fleming, CEO of River City Bank, which was founded almost 50 years ago as a leader in a family business, myself and a long time board member for the Capital Region Family Business Center. I understand firsthand how incredibly important family businesses are to our economy and the unique challenges they face in sustaining from generation to generation.

I think that you'll find this podcast series informative, entertaining, and even humorous at times. That's why our family business, river City Bank is proud to support this podcast. I hope you enjoy today's episode. Hi, this is Steve Fleming of River City Bank, and we're proud to bring you the Capital [01:07:00] Region Family Business Center podcast series.