Episode 41: From Two Trucks to Three Generations: The Kludt Oil Story

In this episode, host Natalie Kling speaks with the Kludt family—three generations behind Kludt Oil, a Northern California fuel delivery company that started with a small gas station and two trucks in 1962 and has grown into a trusted provider serving farms, ranches, and businesses across the region.

What makes this conversation powerful isn’t just the longevity—it’s how each generation has shaped the business in its own way. From a matriarch who built the financial systems by hand, to a second generation that bet everything on growth, to brothers now navigating leadership together in a volatile and evolving industry.

We talk about what it really looks like to grow up inside a family business, how roles evolve over time, and the constant tension between working in the business and working on it.

This is a story about legacy, adaptability, and the reality of running a business where family, employees, and customers are all deeply connected.

Why It Matters

Family businesses are the backbone of local economies—but sustaining them across generations is anything but simple.

This episode highlights the real challenges: succession, sibling dynamics, hiring the right people, and navigating industry disruption. It also reinforces something deeper—values, culture, and trust are often the true drivers of long-term success.

There’s a lot to learn here about stewardship, resilience, and building something that lasts. Not to mention how the family is dealing with an oil shortage/crisis at the time of the recording. 

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction & the Kludt Oil origin story
01:00 – From a small gas station to a growing fuel delivery business
03:00 – Early risks, reinvestment, and building infrastructure
07:00 – The matriarch behind the systems and profitability
10:00 – Growing up in the business across generations
16:00 – Expanding services and driving revenue growth
21:00 – Brother dynamics and leadership evolution
31:00 – Culture, employees, and treating people like family
35:00 – Industry volatility and fuel market challenges
43:00 – Working on vs in the business
50:00 – Hard work vs luck—and what really drives success

You can find more about Kludt Oil by visiting their website: https://kludtoil.com/

To learn more about the Capital Region Family Business Center visit our website HERE. To learn more about River City Bank and how they can benefit your family business, visit www.rivercitybank.com

Transcript

Steve Fleming: [00:00:00] Hi, my name is Steve Fleming, CEO of River City Bank, which was founded almost 50 years ago as a leader in a family business, myself and a longtime board member for the Capital Region Family Business Center. I understand firsthand how incredibly important family businesses are to our economy and the unique challenges they face in sustaining from generation to generation.

I think that you'll find this podcast series informative. Entertaining and even humorous at times. That's why our family business, river City Bank is proud to support this podcast. I hope you enjoy today's episode. 

Michael Kludt: When you don't work on the business and you just work in the business that you, you can't take care of it long term.

Natalie Kling: I am Natalie Mariani Kling, your [00:01:00] host, and a fourth generation family business member. I am so excited to join you around the table for real conversations about what it's like to grow up in, become a part of and navigate the complexities of a family business. Special thanks to another family business, river City Bank for their generous support of this program.

In 1962, Elmer and Irene Kludt bought a small gas station and a couple of trucks over 60 years later, and three generations in the Kludt family delivers fuel to over 200 customers made up of farms, ranches, and dairies all across Northern California. Run by brothers in the third generation, Aron and Michael, 12 years apart.

They navigate daily challenges of working in the business versus on the business, the volatility of the oil industry, all while nurturing the culture of their company and driving a truck when they have to. Together they are living out the values they learn from their parents and [00:02:00] grandparents and working to grow their family.

Business is a story of love, commitment, respect, hard 

Steve Fleming: work, and a good dose of humor. 

Natalie Kling: Welcome Steve and Aron and Michael Kludt to our podcast today. We're so happy to have you. This is the story of Kludt Oil and I would like to begin by you, um, I'll start with you, Steve, the second generation, right? Aron and Michael, your brothers and third generation.

Steve Kludt: Yeah. 

Natalie Kling: So Steve, tell us when people hear oil company, they might like me start thinking landman or something, but you guys are a fuel delivery company. You are trucks and tanks and relationships with farmers. So give us a little insight into what your company looks like today and, and kind of a day to day what that looks like.

Steve Kludt: Well, it's changed tremendously since I got involved in it when I was 12 years old, or my parents did 1962. So basically it's the same thing, but on a much [00:03:00] larger scale than when my parents started it. Well, they actually didn't start it. They bought it. An existing distributor out for sign oil in 1962 for I think it was $6,000 and the deal, they got two trucks and they operated on a sign, oil's, property, their warehouse, and everything as a.

Commission agent and just, in other words, you sell a gallon of fuel, you get so many cents a gallon commission for it. Back then, if people didn't pay their bills, uh, they'd just take it outta my parents' commission check. And that evolved into 1971. They had a fire at the bulk plant that my parents were operating out of and, uh, they were going to rebuild.

Of course, the city of Lodi said, you need to, to bury the aboveground tanks 'cause they were hazard. Signal Oil at that time was now owned by Humble Oil, which eventually evolved into ExxonMobil, was dragging their feet about rebuilding the [00:04:00] bulk plant. So my father had heard from a contractor who was doing work for Exxon in the Bay Area on the refineries.

Asked them, when are you gonna rebuild your plant and Lodi? And they said, we're not going to, we're gonna shut 'em down. So he came back to my dad and my mom and told 'em what he had heard. So they decided to move their operation. About six blocks down the street in, in, uh, Lodi to Douglas Oil, and then operated out of there.

Warehouse and small bulk plant that they had until they developed a piece of property where we're located at right now in 1984. They moved in there after investing their savings into developing this two acre piece of bare ground, and we've been there ever since. A lot of changes have happened. I can't remember all of 'em with all the environmental things.

How many times we had to dig up the piping or the tanks and replace something because the state of California came along with some new idea. Need to be complied with. So, 

Natalie Kling: yeah. 

Steve Kludt: But basically a lot of 

Natalie Kling: changes. 

Steve Kludt: It basically, it went [00:05:00] from two small fuel trucks that were like 1200 gallons delivering fuel to, I don't know, they have like, I don't know how many I have now.

I can't keep track of 'em, but 

Michael Kludt: got about eight fuel trucks, three propane trucks, three oil trucks. 

Steve Kludt: So it's definitely changed. 

Natalie Kling: Steve, when your dad bought that company, he was 42 years old, 

Steve Kludt: correct. 

Natalie Kling: Do you. What do you recall about that decision and what do you think it was in him that wanted to take that risk?

Steve Kludt: Well, I was just thinking back the other day. My dad had numerous jobs. In 1958, he was operating a Richfield gas station, which Richfield evolved into Arco today in Lodi. That was in 58. And he, uh, I don't know, maybe just. Kinda like the idea of fuel. 'cause I don't really remember the, the big decision as why they bought out this existing, uh, commission agent for signal oil.

But they did. And you know, 

Natalie Kling: and [00:06:00] once they did, you were about 12 years old. 

Steve Kludt: 12 years old. 

Natalie Kling: Okay. Do you remember, did, do you, do you remember growing up in the company, did it seem like your parents just had a job or did it feel like the center of your family life? 

Steve Kludt: Well, you hit the key word. They, my mom always said, I think we created ourselves a job and things evolved around the dinner table about work and everything.

And I know when, uh, I got married, I didn't want my wife involved. Business. I just wanna come home and see a fresh face at the end of the day, instead of talking about who paid the bill today or who didn't pay the bill today, 

Natalie Kling: which is a key piece of your story because your mom was kind of the brains behind, 

Steve Kludt: right?

Natalie Kling: The the business. Right, right. 

Steve Kludt: I was actually going through some of her stuff in her cedar chest the other day, and I came across a graduation certificate from a secretarial school in Stockton. She was [00:07:00] still on married at the time, and so I think she probably picked up some skills as far as accounting and things.

In fact, her, my grandfather, her father was always meticulous watching the stock market and how his stocks were doing up or down. So. I got that instilled into my mother when it came to the business. My dad was the one who went out and did the PR work, got the account, delivered the fuel, and my mom was the one that made it all come together with accounting.

And, you know, if things didn't balance by a penny, the checkbook didn't bounce by a penny. You'd find that that penny and, and make it right. 

Natalie Kling: And I know Michael and Erin, you guys talked a little bit about your grandma and how even though she was pasting, cutting and pasting and, and yeah, everything was paper pen, but there was some tea.

Kind of components and structure of how she managed the business that you still utilize today, right? Yeah. Can, can you speak to that a little bit? 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. So I, [00:08:00] um, I manage most of the fuel side, so the gas and diesel inventory that comes in, uh, what we sell. If we have a fuel pumps out front, we sell to the public and call it a card lock.

It's for like a CFN card for businesses, fleets. So we also have fuel that gets brought into our bulk tanks. We load our fuel trucks out of it to do deliveries to farms and ranches, other trucking companies, and then we sell to the public. And so there's thousands upon thousands of gallons coming in a day.

Thousands of gallons going out, thousands of gallons coming back. You know, what we sold to deliveries, what we sold at the pumps, and to kind of make all of that make sense. There's so many moving parts and pieces to get them these little gallons where they went. And if you have discrepancies that are outside of your normal margin of error, it's okay.

I know that maybe someone missed the tag and they didn't turn in a tag for 200 gallons gas. Let's start going through paperwork, uh, to kind of [00:09:00] find those little things that are off. But yeah, how she did it originally it was grids cut out, you know, little headers, pasted, photocopied. She typed stuff up on her typewriter and you know, we had the Xer X machine and there was just a stack of copies and every day you would hand fill everything out with a pencil.

You know, we've evolved recently into using Excel and things like that, that help automate it and it'll flag certain areas that there's, uh, higher discrepancies in what's acceptable. Yes. Kind of the, the thought of how to make everything. It's coming from so many different places, how it makes sense. Yeah.

All on, you know, one form. I would say it's, it was an undertaking that she took, 

Aron Kludt: but it worked well though. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. 

Aron Kludt: Like we, 

Michael Kludt: I wouldn't wanna do it her way forever. 

Aron Kludt: No, but I mean, we use that for. Michael finally switched over to Excel, but I mean, for as long as I drove, it was paper you Yeah. Filled out. You did your deliveries, you reconcile all that stuff, and then [00:10:00] you turn it in and if something was off, then the office is gonna give you a call and say, Hey, what happened here?

Or they gotta start finding, you know, did you fudge a number or did you write gallons in under a different product? But yeah, it was. All paper. 

Michael Kludt: But yeah, the, the checks and balances and how we reconcile fuel gallon sold to what driver's tags are and kind of the double, triple checking, it's, it happens often that we find little things that are off and, you know, little things over time could become big things.

And I think kind of her attention to detail has instilled us to kinda stay on top of how things are being ran and that you don't have that leaky faucet that that little drip. Just adds up over years and I think she did a good job kind of implementing that for our company. 

Natalie Kling: Do you feel like she still has her, her fingerprints on the, on the company?

Michael Kludt: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely on the, the inventory side and what she came up with has evolved, but the. The [00:11:00] format and kind of the way to figure it is, is was all her 

Natalie Kling: and you guys really credit her with making it profitable, right? 

Michael Kludt: Yeah, 

Steve Kludt: I always said that. Uh, right now the, the office says ef, EF Kludt and Sons on the, on the office and always said it should say Elmer and Irene.

Klu and Sons. 

Natalie Kling: It's not too late. 

Steve Kludt: Yeah. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Hey, you know. 

Steve Kludt: Oh yeah, I have a, I have a brother too, Rick, who is six years younger than me. He is, was involved in the business too. Okay. And so he just retired. 

Natalie Kling: Was it the two of you then, Steve? 

Steve Kludt: Yes, it was the two of us. We were, we were 50 50 partners when we finally incorporated my parents, incorporated, and then when we purchased their business 

Natalie Kling: and then going back to 1984, Steve, so your mom wanted to buy this two acre property right?

Steve Kludt: Well, yeah, my parents had, they knew since they had the fire in 71 and they were gonna be out of a location we [00:12:00] had in July of 71. We, they sent, uh, ExxonMobil a registered letter saying as of July 1st, 1971, we're no longer selling fuel from you. And that weekend they moved all their, their two trucks. And, uh, the office actually went from.

The warehouse that we were in there originally it went to my parents' back porch at their house out on the country. I can't remember what year they purchased the property, but it was a substantial change for them. But at that time, they didn't develop it. 'cause interest rates had gone up, I think like 18% or something to borrow money.

So they just sat on it. And finally that was probably around 80. 2 83, they were talking about just staying at the location where we're at. It was just a warehouse we were operating out of. And they, they had built a small little office inside of it and, uh, they said, you know, we're thinking about selling that property and just staying where we're at.

And I kind of said, you know, [00:13:00] if you decide to do that or where we're located right now, we don't have any possibility to grow the business. So they decided to put their life savings in. Building a warehouse. So my, my mom, you know, watching every penny, she goes, well, we'll build a warehouse in office and we'll put in some underground storage tanks and a, and a fuel rack so we can fuel our trucks.

And I said, no. I said, we need to put in a card lock. Automated fuel system, uh, 'cause that I said that's gonna open up a whole new revenue source for us that we don't have right now. 'cause at that time we were just delivering fuel to farm or some, uh, few commercial accounts. So. 

Natalie Kling: And for our listeners, Steve, uh, obviously, you know, the fuel cards are, are, are used today by a lot of businesses to manage fleets and, and whatnot.

But tell us, what does that mean at that time? 

Steve Kludt: At that, at that time we were issued our gas card to customers who wanna set up accounts with us [00:14:00] and our location there in Lodi. Was the only place that they could use it. But eventually that evolved into, uh, the commercial fueling net network that started by Fred Botta outta San Francisco, where he got all these jobbers, like my parents were at that time, instead of being a commission agent, they were a jobber.

They now had control over pricing and fuel and everything, what they wanna sell it for. So at that time. There was all these independent jobber who had their fuel locations that only their cards would work at. So he got 'em all together and they opened up this network where the cards could be intermixed between.

The other 

Michael Kludt: locations. 

Steve Kludt: Locations. And that has involved, that was sold, I dunno how many years ago, to another large company. Fleet wide. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Fuel 

Steve Kludt: manage that. Now you can use, use our card nationwide. 

Michael Kludt: So you can use our [00:15:00] card at any CFN location. Chevron Arco Flying. J Loves, uh, Sinclair pretty much. Any branded gas station, you can use our card at pay different rates based on the agreement that they have with CFN.

But um, but yeah, it's pretty much nationwide. So it went from only at our location to only kind of a, a regional area of fuel companies in California to the whole US and then even into Canada. Yep. 

Natalie Kling: So as I understand it's, that's become a very profitable part of your business. Yeah. And looking back, Steve, did you have any idea that then that it would have the impact that it has today?

Steve Kludt: No, I did, you know, I, I just knew we just needed to do something at that time. And it was, uh, you know, an opportunity Some years back, Aron came to us and said, Hey, we need to get into the. Propane business. And my [00:16:00] first thought was, oh, that's a big expense. We gotta set all these tanks. And you know, so I was kind of like my, 

Aron Kludt: like your mom.

Steve Kludt: Like my mom. 

Aron Kludt: Well, and then, and then like before that I came to them and was like, we need to have actual full-time salespeople. Yep. 

Steve Kludt: Yeah, so there's a lot of changes 

Aron Kludt: because we had a, a salesman we brought from another, brought over from another company. He brought a whole book of business and that was, you know, a nice increase in, in customer base and, and gallons in sales and stuff like that.

But he was very set just. Maintaining his customers and not getting 

Michael Kludt: new 

Aron Kludt: ones? Not really. He just had his routine, you know, what time he'd show up, you know what time he'd be back in the office for lunch and what time he'd go out back again. He'd just check his accounts and then he'd go home. And then we had another sales.

Our dad hired. He also had him as our transport driver. So he would spend, you know, half his day bringing fuel in and then the other half he had time, he'd go see customers. [00:17:00] But depending on the time of the year when it was busy, he didn't have time to really grow a whole lot. And then we had a, a buddy of mine that was working for us and drive him for us and.

He was slowly picking up accounts, just while out driving and delivering fuel. I'm like, man, like how, you know, if he's getting customers just out working his eight, 10 hour day delivering fuel. I'm like, what would happen if we didn't have him deliver fuel and just go out and get business? And so I. We, we pulled our transport driver off and, and hired a new driver to fill his spot and got him as full-time sales and then pulled my buddy off driving and, and found time slowly to get him full-time sales and that's helped out tremendously over, gosh, what has that been?

10 years? 

Michael Kludt: Yeah, 

Aron Kludt: probably or more. 

Michael Kludt: So we started seeing, you know, it was a combination of fuel we're selling through our pumps out front, you know, through card lock and fuel delivered and oils. Once both salesmen are out [00:18:00] drumming up new business or getting our customers to buy more products from us, it typically average anywhere from three to 600,000 gallons a year increase year over year.

There's times where it'd be close to a million and it probably a six to eight year period. Doubled, if not almost tripled our business, uh, in a short amount of time. 

Steve Fleming: Wow. 

Michael Kludt: You know, it's kind of, each generation has its hand in how the company grew and decisions, and at the time you kind of don't realize where it's gonna go or how it's gonna pan out.

But then kind of looking back and it's like, okay, well we're here now and where do we come from? It's, it's pretty impressive with kind of the hand that, you know, our grandparents had and, you know, having the vision to do it. Our, our dad having his hand in it and, and pushing for the location we're at and card lock and, and Aron pushing for salesman and getting into the propane side of, of the business.

Natalie Kling: So [00:19:00] cool. Watching it grow. 

Steve Kludt: All those, all those changes. Remind me of a little story I got, I know, way back when. I was after my dad to invest in two-way radios for the trucks, and he says, oh, make a lot of payphones along the road and a lot of dimes. You can call to call back to the office, see if anything's changed.

This one day, this was about about 1985, when we operate outta a new location, when we a fuel truck, it was just pulling outta the yard, heading for some deliveries on Roberts Island, which is about 20 miles from our location. And the phone had rang and a customer wanted to order some fuel. The, the place where he was kind of, where he was going in that area, the truck had just left and has no way to contact him or flag him down.

So I, I got on the telephone and I called one of our accounts that I knew he was gonna be driving by their location in about 30 minutes. And I said, can you stand out in the road and waved my truck down? Have him call the [00:20:00] office so we can give him a new, another customer he had to deliver fuel to in that area.

So we finally got two-way radios and now, you know, it's like cell phones and they have contract. All the stuff where the truck's at and how fast it's going. Yeah, everything. So 

Natalie Kling: a great story. 

Steve Kludt: That's just one of the things that. Wanted to change and had to get located by the boss. 

Michael Kludt: Well, now we, um, uh, we use a, a group text.

So if tags come into the office for deliveries, our office will take a picture of it, send it out, and it goes to the drivers, or the salesmen are in there. So if a driver's in an area and someone calls in and he has fuel to do it. Then he can pick up the delivery. When Aron and I were driving, we would try to remember to call the office in on our cell phone, but there's times where, you know, you couldn't get ahold of someone.

There wasn't as many people working there. And you come back and you see a tag for a place you drove right by, that you had feel for. And I was like, we gotta be better about this. 

Natalie Kling: Yeah. 

Michael Kludt: And so. You know, just [00:21:00] each little step we've tried to improve upon and, and make it better and more efficient, I think that's added to our ability to have some longevity in this industry.

Natalie Kling: So Michael and Aron, let's go back to you guys growing up in the company. And tell me a little bit from your memories, what did that feel like? Did it again, did it feel like kind of the center of family life? 

Aron Kludt: I mean Yeah. 'cause we're 12 years apart, so, I mean, I, I remember as a little kid. On a weekend or here and there, like our dad taking me out in the fuel truck at the old location before we moved to where we are now and stuff, and go out and.

Drive and go stop by some general store and get some chocolate donuts and whatever, and some orange juice. And this is fun. And, but I think at home, no, they, it didn't, wasn't like a big discussion. It was, I'd go out, you know, he'd take us out here and there, but it wasn't like at home, at dinnertime where sitting around the table having a conversation about [00:22:00] work stuff at all.

Michael Kludt: Yeah, I remember kinda same thing going in on a weekend, learning how to ride a bike in our yard 'cause it was wide open and you know, maybe a friend comes with you. 'cause our dad had to do some stuff and we'd run around and play in the warehouse. Our dad has old pictures of when they were putting the bulk plant in where we're at now of Aron and our other brothers playing in a dirt pile and mm-hmm Me filling up our underground tanks with some pea gravel that we had to abandoned.

We're always around. We used to hand stuff all the Christmas calendars 

Aron Kludt: That's right. 

Michael Kludt: For, uh, our customers we'd send out, so our dad would have us and our friends and go in there on a, on a weekend and we would hand stuff, calendar, stamp 'em, seal 'em, label 'em, and sort 

Steve Kludt: between different. 

Michael Kludt: Our friends always got paid more than us to do it.

Steve Kludt: Because you guys ate too much at home. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's four of us make a point 

Steve Fleming: somehow. 

Michael Kludt: So there's, uh, two middle [00:23:00] brothers that, um, you know, we all kind of worked summers and, and spent time there. There's never a, like a force or a push from our dad that, hey, this is something you guys have to do.

Someone has to take it on. It was very much a, a decision that each of us were able to make on our own. 

Mm-hmm. 

Natalie Kling: Tell us how you came to those decisions individually. 

Michael Kludt: We're pretty close. 

Aron Kludt: Yeah. Yeah. I, I was, I was in school and, and, uh, I had, I, I think in high school and outta high school, I, I really was into woodworking, so I thought I'd be a cabinet maker and then realized I didn't wanna maybe do that as a career.

And then I was going back to school. I just kind of got burned out. I just kind of, you know, I was, you're just doing the classes you gotta take and, and I think always in the back of my mind I'm like, well, you know, I want to come back and work for the family, you know, 'cause I'd always, you know, work summers and stuff like that.

Or when I was in junior college, I was working in between my [00:24:00] schedule and I was down in San Luis Obispo and finished up my AA and I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna come back and start working for the family and I'll figure out. Everything beyond that and I kind of, that's what I did. I just moved back home for, for a year.

Worked full time, saved up some money, moved outta my own and, and been working for the family ever since. 

Michael Kludt: My kinda same thing, I was going to junior college in in Stockton to south of Lodi and. I was kinda getting burnt out on school and classes and didn't really know what I wanted to do and was still working for my dad.

And we had a, a driver that had some health issues. Uh, he could drive, but he didn't have, uh, the ability to climb tanks and pull the hoses. And somebody dad's like, well, if we need deliveries and we don't have drivers, so, you know, you don't have your license. You go with him and he'll show you and tell you what to do.

And spending time with him and, and him explaining the job and how long he had done it, and. He made it a, a really fun daily challenge of how we could do more deliveries, more [00:25:00] stops, and do it quicker. And if you're out meeting customers, a little bit different than just being in the, in the yard, in the warehouse.

And, you know, I was like, man, this is nice. You know, let's get to talk to some cool people. And, you know, everyone's friendly and it's hard work, but you're outside and, uh, you're just driving around out in the country with a fuel truck. You know, it's, it's not a, not a bad job. That's kind of when I decided that I think this is for me and this is something I wanted to do, and they had to drag me out of a truck to get me into the office, darn, darn it, to do more management ownership things.

If it was up to me, I'd still be out driving. But, um, it's a good job and, and it's a, it's a good career for a lot of people. 

Natalie Kling: And so now the two of you, again, 12 years apart, which is a big deal. You're running the company together and. Tell us a little bit about how that age difference impacts the way you see the business, the way you see the future of the business, maybe the way you think through [00:26:00] different things.

Michael Kludt: I've gotten a little bit more mature over the years. I'd say, you know, I was, I was pretty young when I, uh, went into management and ownership. I was 25, 26, so Aron was 30, 37, 38. Yeah. He had a little bit more life experience and, and things, and it, it took me a little while to kinda understand things a little bit better and, you know, then I started having a family and Erin had already had children and kind of understanding the.

Dynamics of working and family life and just outside obligations. But yeah, it's, um, you know, it's fun. It's fun working with your brother. 

Aron Kludt: We've had our challenges. 

Michael Kludt: We've had challenges, but, and 

Aron Kludt: I think a lot of that was earlier on. It's, I think as time's gone by, we've found the way that works for the two of us to work together.

Michael Kludt: Yeah. 

Aron Kludt: You know, or, or early on I think there was, there was, it was definitely probably more of the older brother, younger brother. Kind [00:27:00] of dynamic and, and some of it was just, you know, I had been in the business for like 10 more years before, like full time before Michael started. And so it was just kind of like this, like, okay, well our dad and uncle, like, all right, well we're gonna transition work this transition and you guys are gonna work into taking over the business and you're gonna be equal partners.

And, and I think there was a part of me that it just kind of, I guess, was. A little off put by like, well, what do you mean? Like, I've been here longer, like I've, I've been doing more stuff here, you know, but over the years, as time has gone on, like Michael's done a ton of stuff and he's dove into a lot of stuff and trying to figure out how we streamline stuff or how better understand processes.

I feel like there's a lot of stuff that he's done that. Suits more his mindset than mine. We have different personalities, and so I think [00:28:00] that's good because it's not like each of us are like the same in how we view and do things. So then we each kind of bring different things to the table. 

Michael Kludt: I would say we're both very hands-on just with how we grew up in the business.

Coming kind of on the operation side, both working in the warehouse, doing oil deliveries, uh, working on our equipment, driving, dispatching, dispatching. So you know, we have the same kind of foundation. But yeah, like I said, or how our minds work, I would say I probably have a little bit of my grandma in me of, of mm-hmm.

Being, uh, very little OCD and, and nitpicky with how things are done and making sure they balance and there is a process to it. And Aron probably takes a little bit more after a grandpa of let's just get it done and we'll go from there. Um, yeah, it's, you know, we each have our strong suits and, you know, our dad's always compared having, you know, this business is, it's like a marriage of, you know, it's [00:29:00] 50 50, you know.

So I think, you know, we kinda had our initial, uh, figuring out how to, how to be, uh, married together in business and now we've kind of figured out what works for us. Try to stay in our lanes and, you know, there's hiccups here and there, but at the end of the day, you know, you're, you're stuck with this person if you like it or not.

Yeah. 

Natalie Kling: When you disagree. Now, what does that look like and how do you navigate to ultimately being on the same page or being able to move forward? 

Michael Kludt: Sometimes, we'll, you know, we'll have an argument and there's, for me, there's always like a cooling off period after that argument. And then I usually feel bad or something about how I said something.

You know, you just come back to the table and we discuss, okay, well what happened and what should happen and how we can make it better and try to avoid it going forward. But, um, we both kind of learned that we want the same thing, but we're gonna get there a different way. 

Aron Kludt: Yeah, 

Michael Kludt: that's kind of. It's been, uh, our process is [00:30:00] just kind of learning that we're gonna look at a problem differently, but we still wanna solve the problem and 

Aron Kludt: have the end result.

Michael Kludt: Yeah, there's times where I think I'm right and he'll be discussing something or how he brings it, and it'll change my mindset of like, oh, I think you're right. Or just kind of talking through stuff. We'll, we'll come to the right solution or the best one that we can think of. If there's times where we're both wrong.

Aron Kludt: Yep. 

Natalie Kling: Not very often, I'm sure. 

Michael Kludt: Uh, fairly often. 

Aron Kludt: I'm, I'm, I'm always open to people having, if they got a better idea or a better way to do something. Sure. We have. Our way of how we either were, were shown how to do things or we kind of made our own tweaks to processes and everything, and we know, okay, this is, this is works great, or this is, this is what we feel is the best way.

And when new people come in and it's, we're like, okay, like learn this way and then. If [00:31:00] you have a better system or a better way to do it, great. If it's, if you do it and it makes it easier for you and you can do it in the same amount of time or less perfect. If it's gonna take you longer, then maybe we're not gonna do it that way.

Michael Kludt: We've been pretty fortunate with employees that we have and, and ideas that they've had, and there's certain aspects of the business that Aron and I didn't have to be as involved in. So if it's things that people are doing every day and they can streamline a process, or, Hey, if we invest in this, it'll save me, you know, 40 minutes a day.

And, you know, you, you start putting the numbers to that and it adds up quick. And so we always try to encourage our employees if there's, you know, ideas or something that would make their job better, easier, how can we do that? 

Natalie Kling: Yeah. One thing you made clear is that one thing that matters to both of you is the culture and the employees, and you take a big sense of responsibility in that, and it sounds like you've really [00:32:00] strive to make flexibility for, for their families, for their health, so that they know that they're really part of the family business.

What does that mean to you guys? 

Michael Kludt: Um, just looking at how my grandparents, how they cared about people and, you know, our dad and uncle, what, what they've done for people. And it's if people are coming to work for you and they're spending their time here and, you know, yes, you're paying them, but we're all in this together and no one wants to spend all day with people you, you dislike, or you don't enjoy doing the job with.

So it's, I think our, our dad has, you know, said, I probably got it from him is, you know, we're a family business, but we're not a family business because it's just the family. He owns it. We're family business because that's how we treat our, our employees. And when people care about what they do, they're, they're gonna do a better job.

There's decisions that Aron and I have had to make with, with health benefits was a, was a big one. Money was kind of tight and insurance rates were going up and we [00:33:00] decided to cut back how much we covered. You know, having that conversation and having to tell employees, Hey, you know, we're taking something away for a little bit.

We'll reassess it next year. If we can go back to what we were covering. There was a lot of hard conversations and a lot of people were upset with us, and it wasn't a decision. We came to lightly and fortunately we were able to maintain our profitability, and then the next year when we had a renewal, we were able to go back to what we originally covered, which is pretty generous.

And our insurance broker says we're only one of the few companies that that do that for our employees, but. We want to take care of our employees because they take care of the business and in turn, they're, they're taking care of Aron and I as well, and our families. So, you know, if, if they're taken care of, then it's a symbiotic relationship.

Natalie Kling: As you mentioned, you have four brothers, there's four of you. Mm-hmm. I mean, altogether. Right. Does the business play a role amongst the sibling relationships? 

Michael Kludt: [00:34:00] Not really. They both have their careers that, that they're successful in. There's never been a. Even if they weren't involved, there's never, you know, I'm owed something or I'm entitled to a portion of it because this is the family business.

You know, our, our dad and uncle, they had, uh, two sisters, one had moved away to South Dakota. And had a family there. And, and the other one, her husband did work for the company. He wasn't an owner, but he was a long time driver and, and salesman. But there was never any, uh, sense of entitlement based on few.

And you work in the business and you're contributing to it, then you can be a part of it. And that's just kind of the, the way, the direction that they took it. And that's. Kinda what my, my dad did with us. And, uh, my uncle has some sons and, uh, they weren't involved in the business. And when it came time to when they wanna retire, it was pretty much, well, who's gonna run the business, how it should be run and who's working in it, who's gonna take care of it?

And that's how we kind of ended up where we're at. 

Natalie Kling: What are some of the biggest challenges [00:35:00] facing your business? Today? 

Michael Kludt: Today, today? Or just the, we have a, we have a 

Natalie Kling: doozy today. Today. As of today, we have a doozy today Should. March 10th, 2026. We are involved in the war with Iran. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah, so fuel prices, um. We knew they were gonna come up this year with, uh, refinery closings and just kind of the trend we've been seeing.

The demand for fuel in California is still maintained pretty high, but the production is not there, so majority of California's fuel is imported. Uh, so then you're at the mercy of a global market and shipping, and there's been times where. Product could be coming to California, but if they can sell it in another market for more money, then those, uh, those products, the, the oil products are gonna be sent there.

So the last few years, there's been, uh, allocation that gets put on us when we go to purchase our fuel for every fuel company out there, that there's daily allotments. [00:36:00] There's been times where terminals don't have any fuel till, you know, the next week. And it, it causes these, these price jumps and instability in the market.

So it's, you know, I didn't see the war in Iran coming. We knew prices were gonna go up, but, uh, how fast they've come up and, uh, it's, it's almost impossible to keep up with the price changes when you're having multiple price changes a day and you're trying to time, you know, well, who's low right now? And if I can get this load before there's another price jump, and, you know, it comes down to minutes where you could, you know, one minute you're paying 20 cents less and the next you're paying 20 cents more.

So it's, uh, it's a little stressful for our drivers. You know, I try to work with them and figure out who has allocation, how can I get these prices held, and then trying to take care of our customers and their demands with the hardship that they're facing. Most of our ag customers right now, they're growing grapes and, and walnuts, and both those [00:37:00] markets are not doing the best.

Everyone feels the, the, the pinch at the pump. But for our, our ag customers, it's, these last few years have been pretty hard on them. And so it's us trying to offer our services, be competitive, stay profitable, but then, you know, make sure that our customers are taken care of. And it's, uh, it's, it's a juggle to, to manage all of those things.

Natalie Kling: And in terms of relationships, you serve so many farms around California. Are you delivering fuel to the next generation now? 

Michael Kludt: Oh yeah. There's, there's people that have bought fuel that their grandpa bought fuel from my grandpa, or their dad bought fuel from my dad. And you know, they'll say, I remember, you know, your dad delivered to me when I was a little kid.

Or, you know, I remember going and seeing Elmer and yeah, Lodis a, you know, it's a. Pretty small agricultural community, and there's been people that have been our customers since we started, or as you know, as long as I've been around, 

Natalie Kling: we talked about owning a [00:38:00] business and how the, there's so many, there's so many beautiful parts to being a family business.

One of the weights of ownership is that you don't turn it off. You don't get to turn it off. What, what keeps you guys awake at night? 

Michael Kludt: Last night it was the, the police calling me at 1130 that there was someone stealing fuel from our pumps, and so I had to go down there and see what they did and explain to 'em how they were stealing fuel and look at security tapes and see how they broke into the pumps.

It was a year ago, last March, we had a similar incident and they were able to get about $30,000 of fuel. From us over a week, we're able to figure out how they're doing it and getting into our pumps. And then we spent a bunch of money to prevent it from happening again. These criminals and thieves, it's, it's a big business for 'em, and they find out new ways to break in and bypass security measures.

So they did that last night. I was there till [00:39:00] probably two in the morning with the police, uh, working with them to get things straightened out. They were able to, based on what I was able to provide him that night, arrest him. And so then my, this morning has been compiling video surveillance and getting pictures and documentations giving to them so he can be charged.

We've thing that 

Natalie Kling: literally kept you up last night. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. I think Aron sleeps better than me because of how it, you know, our brains work differently. Right. 

Aron Kludt: I even, as stressful as stuff is, and problems and issues and whatever is going on, I, 95% of the time I'm, once my head hits a pillow, it's, I look at it as like, well, there's nothing I'm gonna do about it tonight.

I'm gonna deal with it tomorrow morning. 

Natalie Kling: Aron, we need to figure out how to take those genes and copy them for, I 

think 

Michael Kludt: you're 

Steve Fleming: kind of like that, aren't you, dad? 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Uh, 

Aron Kludt: same 

Michael Kludt: way, but I think I got that from him. I, I take after our grandmother. [00:40:00] 

Natalie Kling: Yeah. Isn't it so true. What do you think your biggest challenges that you're facing are, Aron?

Aron Kludt: I think right now we're doing a lot better. Employee wise, we've had, we had, oh God, we had a lot of rough years at, at least probably five years of, I'd say 

Michael Kludt: eight. 

Aron Kludt: Okay. Eight being nice of, you know, thinking you have the right people in the right seats and doing the right things and, and then things slowly unravel.

And I grew up and started working when there was like eight people. Half of them were family related or like family friends or more. And so it was a very different dynamic starting in, how many people 

Natalie Kling: are there today? 

Aron Kludt: 24. 24. Four. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. He just had a, A guy start yesterday. I think the most we've been up to is 26 employees.

But yeah, finding quality people and then when you do find them, I think that's part of the reason why we want to, we try to do our [00:41:00] best as, as bosses and employers. Because when you have good people to lose a good person, it's, it's devastating to the company, you know? And to fill those shoes is hard. And we're still a fairly small company in the scope of things.

So when key people leave, especially drivers or you know, really good office person, it takes years to. Build someone up to, to that level which they're at. You know, we're seeing, uh, more longevity with employees, people sticking around longer and, and viewing the benefits of working for us. I got one driver that, you know, he's, he's left before and has come back and he's like, man, you guys really are the best bosses working for other companies.

It's, it's not the same. I think we've been pretty fortunate to, to have some quality employees now. It's never a, a one and done. You got, it's a continuous thing you gotta work on. But yeah, fuel pricing right now, for me, that's, that's been what's [00:42:00] keeping me up. Trying to make sure that, you know, we have customer base that we can take care of that, you know, we don't lose too much volume with the way the industry and market's going.

Natalie Kling: And when you guys, oh, go ahead Aron. 

Aron Kludt: No, I was say propane's. Probably the one thing as of. The last six months or so has probably been the, the biggest challenge with me. That's with what I started, I, I had a, the key guy that I hired, service guy to help me kind of put that all together, kinda a falling out.

So it just kinda put more on my plate than I didn't have before. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. 

Aron Kludt: So it's just, you know, and now it's. Trying to get my head into that and get that all sorted out and then look at, okay, well I'm taking on this extra now, but then at what point, who can I transition some of this workload to and have them manage?

Michael Kludt: It's good and bad with sometimes how involved Aron and I are in the business. You know, our, our dad and uncle did the same thing. Our grandparents did the same thing, 

Aron Kludt: the [00:43:00] motto, 

Michael Kludt: but it's when you don't work on the business and you just work in the business that you, you can't take care of it long term.

So that's, that's probably been a, an ongoing struggle since we became owners is, you know, when we take time to invest into a process or a project fact finding, figure out, hey, you know, our margin's accurate. Are we to the market? Are we profitable when we spend time doing those things, you know, there's a payout for it, but you know, when we're on a truck or we're fixing things and just doing the day to day.

Those things get kind of pushed to the side and over time that'll add up and, and take its toll on the company. 

Aron Kludt: Our dad had a motto I always grew up listening to, and I'm sure you too, Michael was, well, you just we're just a jack of all trades. You just gotta know everything in the sense 

Michael Kludt: of jack of all trades, master of nuts.

Aron Kludt: Yes. And, and, and, and growing up in it. That's, you know, I, that's kind of [00:44:00] how I viewed it. And then as we got further into it, and then Michael and I kind of get taken over, it was like, we can't know everything and we can't do everything. And so then that's kind of where we've been trying to, you know, like Michael and I kinda separating kind of some of the, some of the responsibilities to where it wasn't like we both had our fingers in the same pot and different employees are hearing different things about the same stuff because we both are 

Michael Kludt: different ways of doing it.

Aron Kludt: Yeah. And 

Michael Kludt: so you try to divide and conquer. 

Aron Kludt: Yeah. And also know that we're not gonna know everything that's 

Michael Kludt: okay. 

Aron Kludt: And can we get other people to be masters of that thing? And I don't need to be, and they know it. You can ex, you can tell me about it, but I'm gonna expect that, hey, you're gonna, you know what you're doing and I don't need to meddle in what you're doing.

Natalie Kling: Yeah. I think every family business owner who's listening to this is gonna be able to relate to that. That is exactly one of the biggest challenges. It is with the family business ownership. 

Michael Kludt: Because I 

Natalie Kling: know you working in the company versus on the company. 

Michael Kludt: [00:45:00] Yeah. 'cause it's, you know, there's so much knowledge up here and there's still knowledge that our dad has that, you know, that I wanna siphon out.

But sometimes it doesn't pay to be the smartest guy in the room. And I know there's a lot of, I think Elon Musk says, you know, I wanna hire the smartest guy. I don't wanna be the smartest guy. And you know, I don't need to be the mass expert on this. If we are fortunate, when, um, when our uncle was gonna retire, we hired a.

Another one of Aron's friends, a family friend who's known me since I was born, but been friends with Aron to kind of come in and take that financial CFO accounts payable role. And he brought a lot of computer knowledge and process knowledge. He came from working at a bank and the security of things and, and just a little bit different outlook on how things should be done.

I think that higher there, just because if Aron and I were to. Have to do our operational side and then the, you know, be as involved in the financial side. [00:46:00] Nothing would get done as efficient as it is now. So it's finding those right people that can bring a lot to the table. It's, it's had, its, it's paid out dividends, quite a, you know, tenfold with, uh, having some quality people on board.

Natalie Kling: Yeah. That's great. That's really great to hear. Looking forward to the next generation. You guy, all your kids are still pretty young. Aron, I know yours are 16 and 18, but that's young. 

Michael Kludt: It is. 

Natalie Kling: And Michael, you have little kids. 

Michael Kludt: I got a one and a half sh and a 4-year-old. 

Natalie Kling: Oh wow. Really little. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah, they were up last night when I came home at two 30 in the morning.

Natalie Kling: I'm waiting. Waiting for dad. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm, thank you for being here today. God who does? 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Coffee helps. 

Natalie Kling: How do you guys think about preparing for that possibility? 

Michael Kludt: I'll let you start Yours or older. 

Aron Kludt: Yeah, I know. Well, I mean, I don't think either of my kids want anything to do in the business. I mean, maybe there's some chance my son, if [00:47:00] he, I don't know, at least from.

All the years, my kids are like, I don't want to work in your business, dad. It's dirty, it's grainy. Well, they, they used to give me bad time that I own a gas station, but I don't sell any snacks in it. So they're like, you just have a gas station that doesn't sell snacks. I'm like, well, that, we're not that kind of gas station.

We're just a gas station. 

Michael Kludt: You know, 

Aron Kludt: I, I, you know, it's hard 'cause I, I'm, I'm. Part of me looks at just the way this state is and their viewpoint of how they see the oil and gas industry. And I really don't know, like it, there's part of me that I'm like, what? What is it gonna be? What is the next gen? Is there gonna be a next generation or is it gonna be something where, you know, Michael and I we're the last generation in this?

Or maybe it's a. Somewhat modified version of what we're doing because it's a lot less depending on how our customer base is [00:48:00] and you know, if farming's gonna get better or if it's not gonna get better. I, it's really hard. I feel like there's a lot of unknown and where things are going to move forward just in how the state views a lot of things or wants to see a lot of things implemented with.

Going all electric, you know, with cars, with trucks, with everything in your house. You know, that's the push they want to be. So then where does that put our space in? 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Is how consolidated is it gonna be? 

Aron Kludt: Yeah. 

Michael Kludt: Just 'cause in our industry alone, the amount of smaller fuel companies our size, they've all been being, uh, bought up, gone out, sold.

There's been a lot of consolidation in the last 10 years. 

Steve Fleming: Mm-hmm. 

Michael Kludt: Where we're at right now in Lodi, one point within a probably a mile radius, there was four businesses that did what we did. There's one across the street, [00:49:00] one, you know, the road, road over, and one, uh, around the corner from them, and, and now there's.

And, uh, one of the places is just a, just a card lock, just a fuel site. But it's not a, a manned warehouse. It's not a, a spot where a customer can go buy oil. So there's just in, you know, Aron and our time here, there's been consolidation, our dad's time consolidation, you know, I think both Aron and I were not gonna force our kids to, to get into this.

As our dad didn't force us into it. We do have some other, you know, our other brother's kids if they might be interested in it or not. That'd be a decision for them. I know when Aron and I have talked about if we did hire a, a family member that regardless, you're gonna go get your trucking license, you're gonna have to drive a fuel truck, you're gonna have to know how the business operates before you can be a manager or lead in it.

Because if you don't know what the, the people are doing underneath [00:50:00] you, then no one's gonna respect you. 

Natalie Kling: Guys, before we close, this is the last question we ask all of our guests. Do you think that the success of your business is due more to hard work or luck? 

Aron Kludt: I'll let you start, Dan. I'd say hard. I mean, I, I feel like it's hard work and, but I mean, there probably is a little bit of luck just in, in maybe how certain things might play out or ideas you have that you maybe go, well, this might work, it might not work.

If you're lucky, it does, and it pays out. 

Michael Kludt: I'll break the trend here. I'm gonna say luck because we always talk about our farmers being gamblers. Uh, the biggest gamblers we know because they gamble on crop price, weather, you know, whole slew of things. But then I think about it, I'm like, well, we gamble on them.

Aron Kludt: Yep. 

Michael Kludt: To have a business. So I'm, I'm gonna say it's, it's, it's luck. I think, uh, you can kind of make some of your own luck through hard work, but, uh, it's one bad decision [00:51:00] from, from not having a business is what it takes nowadays. So we've been, we've been very fortunate. Hopefully we can remain lucky for another.

Yeah. 63 years. 

Aron Kludt: Mm-hmm. 

Michael Kludt: We might be selling batteries at some time, you know? 

Natalie Kling: Hey, you'll evolve. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah, we might. We might have diesel generators driving around charging cars. 

Natalie Kling: That's right. Well you guys, thank you so much. What a great story from a little gas station, a couple trucks. And a matriarch and systems and culture and relationships that have released at the test of time.

It's a great story. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. Thank 

Natalie Kling: you. And I really appreciate you being here. 

Michael Kludt: We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for this guy. Yep. And your mother. And our mother, 

Natalie Kling: amen. 

Michael Kludt: Was, 

Natalie Kling: what's your wife's name? 

Steve Kludt: Marcy. 

Michael Kludt: Kept us in line. I don't know how They're pretty lucky they raised four good boys. 

Steve Kludt: Well, she kept them in line.

Michael Kludt: Oh yeah. I was giving her credit. 

Steve Kludt: Whenever she got mad, they knew it. Whenever I [00:52:00] got mad, they'd start laughing and go, oh, dad's mad. 

Michael Kludt: I don't know. I mean, every once in a while be like, oh crap, dad's mad. We'd always, they'd laugh. I, I'd always feel bad when dad got mad because like, oh man, then I really messed up.

You know? 

Natalie Kling: It's 

Michael Kludt: the real 

Natalie Kling: disappointment. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. If it wasn't for their hard work into us, then Aron and I wouldn't be able to put the hard work into this business. And, you know, I think that that's a huge factor in, in a lot of businesses is, you know, what's that next generation? How are they raised? What was the expectations for them?

Or was it just, here's the business, run with it and you know 

Natalie Kling: That's right. 

Michael Kludt: Best of luck. So they, uh, 

Natalie Kling: values, 

Michael Kludt: they, uh, they instilled a lot in us. 

Aron Kludt: Oh, yeah. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. 

Aron Kludt: I think the goal was, is that the incident we had to move out on our own, that we sure as hell could like survive. 

Steve Kludt: Yep. 

Aron Kludt: Pay bills, cook stuff, 

Steve Kludt: clean, cook, 

Aron Kludt: clean everything.

Laundry. 

Steve Kludt: Yeah. 

Aron Kludt: Oh, yeah, 

Steve Kludt: yeah. No, our, 

Natalie Kling: Steve, are you, are you proud? 

Steve Kludt: Oh, yes. Very proud [00:53:00] of all four of 'em. 

Aron Kludt: Even though it was all Floris boys, it wasn't 1950s. The the woman's gonna do everything. She was like, no, you guys. You guys are cleaning the house on the weekend and you gotta know how to do your own laundry and you gotta do the dishes and learn how to cook.

Yep. And I appreciate that 'cause yeah, like I didn't feel like I was lost when I was living on my own. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. 

Natalie Kling: Well there's nothing more attractive than a guy that can, uh, do some laundry and, and cook something. So. Good job, mom. We 

Aron Kludt: got lucky. We all got 

Natalie Kling: good wives 

Aron Kludt: too. 

Michael Kludt: Yeah. 

Natalie Kling: Wow. What a great story. Well, thank you so much.

Thanks for your time and your honesty. Appreciate it. Thank you. And openness. Thank you and great luck in this next couple of years.

Thank you for listening to A Seat at the Table Trials and triumphs of family business. If you like what you heard today, please be sure to subscribe. Post a positive review and share with another family business owner. For more information about the Capital Region Family Business Center, visit [00:54:00] cap family biz.org.

That's Cap family b us.org. You can also follow us on Facebook at Capital Region Family Business Center and on Instagram at Cap Fam Bizz, BIZ. If you know of other family businesses that have a story to share, please contact the Family Business Center at info@capfamilybizz.org. That's BUS. We're grateful for the support from River City Bank to make this program possible and special thanks to Guy Raz from how I built this for a wonderful closing question that's become one of our favorites.