White Fox Talking
Talk About Mental Health & Well-Being… Why Not? Mark ‘Charlie’ Valentine suffered life changing mental illness, before beginning a journey to recovery and wellness; the darkness of PTSD transformed by the light atop mountains and beyond. Mark is now joining forces with Seb Budniak, to make up the ‘White Fox Talking’ team. Through a series of Podcasts and Vlogs, ‘White Fox Talking’ will be bringing you a variety of guests, topics, and inspirational stories relating to improving mental well-being. Find your way back to you! Expect conversation, information, serious discussion and a healthy dose of Yorkshire humour!
White Fox Talking
E54: Building Community and Harmony - Jovanni Sterling's Inclusive Outdoor Initiative
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What happens when a promising footballer switches tracks to become an award-winning music artist? Jovanni Sterling, also known as Graft, shares his captivating story with us. From his early days navigating the neighbourhoods of Leeds and the impact of his parents' separation, to overcoming the challenges in his football career, Jovannis journey is one of resilience and passion. You'll hear how his transition from football to music was far from smooth, but with the support of his teammates and coaches, he found solace and success in his true calling.
Get ready to be inspired as Jovanni recounts the intense pressure of winning BBC Three's The Rap Game UK Season 2 and the meaningful messages he seeks to deliver through his music. Interestingly, his experiences in high-pressure football environments helped him adapt and thrive in the music competition scene. Jovanni also sheds light on his dedication to social issues and creating music that resonates deeply with listeners, focusing on the influences around him and the desire to address the struggles faced by youth.
But that's not all. Jovanni also talks about his love for the great outdoors and how this passion led him to create the Come Outside running community. During lockdown, he felt the need for an inclusive space where people from various backgrounds could come together and support each other through activities like running and hiking. By fostering a sense of community and enhancing mental well-being, Jovanni's initiative is making a positive impact far beyond the music scene. Join us and feel the positive energy Jovanni brings to every aspect of his life and work.
Spotify - Graft
Graft - Headliner
ComeOutsideCo - Instagram
Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast. I'm Matt Charlie-Valentine and Seb's here on the controls. How are you, seb? Hi Charlie, all good, yes, my legs hurt, your legs hurt.
Speaker 2:Why is that? I think you took me on a 34k walk on Saturday. Wonderful though wasn't it?
Speaker 1:We'll be mentioning that in the podcast. It's all relevant. How come? Because today's guest is Mr Giovanni Sterling. Hello, giovanni Woo. Today's guest is Mr Giovanni Sterling. Hello Giovanni Woo Woo. Yes, so Giovanni came with us with his Come Outside community group and we did a walk around the Adel Skyline. Welcome, how are you?
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me guys Feeling good. Yeah, pleasure to be here. First podcast interview I've done in a while. I've been saying no to a lot of interviews for like the past year or so, while I've been saying no to a lot of interviews for like the past year or so, so this is my first one back.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, thank you, thanks for coming in.
Speaker 1:So we should say thank you to harry down common sense clothes as well for getting this together and putting us together. It turns out we know we're sort of mutual circles, mutual common minded on a few things, and we've got a lot to go through. I want to talk about your early life and things like that, and then the football, the music, but we're mainly talking about the mental health with the come outside community. So would you give a little short round up just for the benefit of our listeners?
Speaker 3:then we'll get get into it and yeah, definitely so my name I go by the name of Graft and I'm a music artist from Leeds, bbc Three's the Rap Game UK Season 2 winner and Mobile and Sung 2018 winner as well of different genres, but predominantly hip-hop, incorporated with, like jazz, soul, done other genres in the past, like grime, rap, drill, so very versatile, but I feel like, as my career has progressed, I'm definitely stepping into more of the, the sound that resonates with me, and be my most authentic self cool.
Speaker 1:So there is quite a lot that we can talk about. But can we get some background, like earlier where you grew up, etc. Early year school, and we'll clear all that out for people because I think people would be interested and then we'll lead to what we're actually in for relating to mental well-being, mental health, because that's brilliant what you're doing. But we'll tell the listeners, we'll keep them hanging on for that, yeah yeah, yeah, definitely so.
Speaker 3:I grew up in an area in leeds called gladhow. When my mum and dad were married, spent like a lot, quite a few years there, had a really nice home, a lot of fond memories playing in the garden, learning how to ride a bike, kick-ups, all of that good stuff. And then my mum and dad split up when I was younger, whilst being in primary school, and the primary school that I went to was St Matthew's in Chapel Allerton. So when my mum and dad split up, I then moved to an area called Chapel Town with my mum and we lived in an area called Leopold Gardens and I had so many fond memories of growing up there. I met some of the friends that have remained my closest friends up to this day, a lot of experiences that shaped me as a person and just learned a lot about the area and myself Spent a lot of years in Chapel Town and then I moved to an area in Oakwood where I've lived for the last 15 years.
Speaker 3:So that, being more closer to Rounday Park and more greenery, you could say really encouraged me to get outside more and go running, go explore, go see what it had to offer, because being outside is something that's always resonated with me. So, moving from Chapel Town, where there wasn't really much natural greenery, and then moving to Oakwood, I felt like I was much more in my element. And then, like I said, that's where I've lived for the last 15 years and I really love the area, but long-term I would like to move out of the UK. I'm just unsure where I'd like to go.
Speaker 1:You know, you just said that your parents split at an early age. Yeah, do you think that affected you negatively or gave you more resilience? That's a good question. It can have a big effect on a young person, can't it, as they all of a sudden have lost part of that, or you still only see dad at certain times, or only see mum at certain times, and it's you know, ideally you've got a family network around you.
Speaker 3:That's a good question. I think when my mum and dad split up, they maintained the balance well. So although I went and lived with my mum, I see my dad a lot, had a good relationship with him at times and they made that work. So that helped me feel that same connection and love that I did when they were together. Although it changed, it still very much felt present. So it wasn't too difficult. But throughout that journey there was a lot of difficult moments though breakdown in relationships with my dad, not the best time with my mum at points. So I did go through a lot of twists and turns, but I guess we all tried to do our best in making that work yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's good that you know well, in my opinion, that you managed to keep contact with both sides and then so we I don't know probably made you more what's the word? So you still work, you still, like you say, you're still getting that both sides parental love, and have you got a lot of family around you in Leeds?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I do. Much of my immediate family live in Leeds or surrounding areas, so I see them often. I Leeds or surrounding areas, so I see them often. I've got six siblings on my dad's side, so we're all close. I'm the only child of my mum's but I've got a really beautiful relationship with my mum, still see my dad and we've got a great relationship now. So it is really nice to be around family and, like I said, I see them often and we and we're in touch, in contact, a lot.
Speaker 1:Cool, yeah, I've had it. When you talk to people and they don't see one side, it's just heartbreaking, isn't it sometimes? So what was school like?
Speaker 3:So I went to St Matthew's Primary School and I was just a nuisance. Really. My focus in primary school was just to have fun, chase girls you're in primary school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh good, primary school.
Speaker 3:In primary, in primary yeah, from young chase girls eat sweets, have a laugh, play football and learn about p and english. Really that they were the two subjects that I really enjoyed the most. So I guess my focus wasn't really on learning in primary school, it was just to have fun. But because I enjoyed certain subjects I did give it a good try. But I feel like I was still trying to find myself and my way at that time, just being so young and just being around so much.
Speaker 3:And then going into high school, I feel like from year seven to eight I was still transitioning from how I was in primary but in high school so still having a laugh, still figuring things out and then I guess from year nine onwards, that's when I really started to take things seriously, knuckle down, went to all the revision classes and ended up getting all my GCSEs A star to C. So I guess what helped me is the fact that I've always had a good work ethic. Seeing my parents work extremely hard, I feel like that was passed on to me. So once it came to that turning point where I thought, yeah, I need to get my grades because I'm pursuing football and that's not a guarantee, okay, so let me, let me get my grades. I did that and it's really benefited me. Was that today?
Speaker 1:sorry, was that like conscious decision of your own, or did you have influences telling you, such as your parents? A little bit football as well.
Speaker 3:It was my parents, family, close family, friends and teachers that I looked up to as well which were saying you know, they were saying things like they believe in me, they know that I'm smart and I work hard enough to get my grades, so just get it done, because you're in school for once in your entire life. So that resonated with me and I feel like as it came to that transitional period from year eight to nine, I started to see things differently, because before I was around a lot of friends at the time that just wanted to have fun. They were interested in thinking long term, but I was because of my ambitions to be a footballer. So I think that ambition and and drive helped me to separate myself from people that weren't in alignment with me and soon as I moved away from them I started meeting more people in school and developing friendships with them and I just feel like my life just kind of changed from that, that point of shifting my perspective yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
Speaker 1:because some people will go one way or the other. True, I think I went the other way, actually the opposite way. I was studying and then it just like it felt a bit because I discovered going to watch football and girls and alcohol.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same for me.
Speaker 1:What is what?
Speaker 2:You went the same way as me. Yeah, yeah, good at school. And then it all fell apart when I turned 17.
Speaker 1:I was in top sets and then, oh, I was 15. Yeah, I should have took up skiing then, because I went downhill rapidly, you know.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we sort of brought it back, hopefully. So downhill rapidly, you know. Anyway, we sort of brought it back hopefully. So you mentioned football quite a bit and I guess you were playing that from a young age. Yeah, how did you meet a balance between trying to pursue football as a professional, yeah, and trying to maintain I'm going to put this in quotes a normal life by going to school, because it must be quite hard, yeah, yeah, trying to find a balance where you constantly train after school. I guess you've done it like straight after school you went to training and on the weekends training and then school learning.
Speaker 3:It is quite tough on a on a young person yeah, yeah, that's a really good question, because there was actually a point in school where I'd have a half day so that I could go and train at Leeds. So that's when it started to feel like really serious, when I was leaving school early and I remember at the time I was doing triple science but because I signed a scholar with Leeds, that workload of the triple science was too much for me to balance with my commitments at Leeds. So I guess the way that I managed that was the best I could. People in my area and in my school they knew me as a footballer, so I was getting a lot of attention, a lot of female attention, and everyone just wanted to be around me and that was cool, that that felt nice to be acknowledged.
Speaker 3:But, like I was saying that, I was just focused on the bigger picture, I knew I wasn't where I wanted to be. I was in the process of getting there, but the goal was to be a pro. So all of this attention was good, but I was like, no, I'm not there yet. So let me stay level headed. And I think how I did that was my parents and also my upbringing. I've always grown up and been encouraged to remain humble and just stay focused. So I feel like that was embedded within me at that time when I was trying to juggle football and school.
Speaker 1:How long were you on that pathway to becoming a professional footballer?
Speaker 3:Well, my first professional club was at 14. Who was that? That was with Bradford. Okay, bradford City had two years there, but at that time I was going through a lot of growths. But so injury galah Okay, injury galah. That was a tough time because I remember I'd be, I trained for like six weeks, injured out for like 10 weeks, come back same again, and that really affected me mentally, especially at a young age. I was like all I want to do is just play and I can't. So that was a really tough time. It took a lot of self-belief to get through that and continue playing. So that didn't work out because of all the injuries. I got released from Bradford and then I got signed for Leeds United at 16.
Speaker 3:I remember going on a six-week trial at Leeds, went to four parts for the first time and I was just starstruck. I was like whoa, all of these pro footballers, all of these fancy cars and the environment just felt so professional, different to what I'd experienced before, because the level between Bradford and Leeds is massive. So it felt really different. It felt serious, but I was excited and I remember the six-week trial. I was just smashing it. They signed me in in three weeks, so I knew that I did well because I didn't even have to finish the whole trial period, got signed, they made me captain for the under 16s, signed my scholarship shortly after and then from lead I was at Leeds.
Speaker 3:From what age was I boss? Yeah, from from 17 to 18 had such an amazing time there. We played teams all over the country. I was networking and connecting with the first team players, learning things from them. At the time I was Sol Bamba's boot boy, if you can remember Sol Bamba Massive centre-half and I remember just being inspired by players like him and Liam Cooper and I was around Calvin Phillips at the time and I remember just being inspired by players like him and Liam Cooper oh right, yeah, and I was around Calvin Phillips at the time. So playing with him, training with him at times, and that was my best footballing experience from all the fun in the changing rooms with my teammates before games afterwards and that scholarship. You're there every day. We trained Monday to Friday, game Saturday, sunday, off back again and I was getting paid like from 16, 17, just doing that. So it felt like a dream, but I really learned a lot and that was a great experience and I spent like a year or so at Leeds and then I moved to Rotherham.
Speaker 3:So within my two year scholarship I think the last half of it I then moved to Rotherham so within my two year scholarship, I think the last half of it I then moved to Rotherham was playing reserves football and training with the first team, and that really felt promising because that was the reason they wanted me. They were like we're going to give you first team football, we're going to do this, going to do that. But in football a lot of people make a lot of empty promises. So I got of people make a lot of empty promises, right. So I got there under 18s and was the captain, training with the reserves and first team things going well. But then at the end of the, the season, on my time there, they didn't offer me a pro contract, which I yeah, I was destroyed. It was. It was a difficult time, but the positive thing about all of that was I was releasing music from my time from.
Speaker 3:Leeds to Rotherham and music was going well.
Speaker 2:So you were doing that at the same time Simultaneously. Yeah, from Leeds. So you were doing school music. Yeah, yeah, and football, yeah that takes a lot of focus.
Speaker 3:Football was my main focus. Music was just a hobby, so it never felt like I was putting so much energy into it at the time. It just felt more like an outlet. Did the dressing room like your music? Yeah, yeah, dressing room Love my music so it leads Christmas shows, christmas parties. I'd perform before. That's what I'm saying Before games. We play my music at the end. We play my music At the end. We played my music. So all the coaches and my teammates were really supportive and that made it easier for me to continue with my music because there wasn't any backlash or what are you doing making music G?
Speaker 3:They were very supportive I was just going to ask that what else was there then? So when I got signed for Leeds, it was Redfern. Neil Redfern signed me and then it was Uwe Rosler after Neil Redfern. I had a few. I had a few Gary Monk Right, Somebody else I can't even remember. No, that was Rotherham. There were so many different managers, so many different managers when I was there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose that must have been difficult as well, you're trying to make your way, and then you've got to start again, right? Yeah, yeah, literally.
Speaker 3:There was so much change at that time and everything was just really hectic. So I think how I remained focused through that was just focusing on what I could control, and that was my training and how I performed as a player.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying this is what happened, but you know, I suppose, depending on the manager's character, if you're playing your music, well, is he concentrating fully on his, but there again, you need a release as well, or a different focus, or this is what I believe. It's my opinion that if you're focusing on something, you need something else to keep you fresh on that, otherwise you just go still, don't you? Yeah, yeah, something else to keep you fresh on that, otherwise you just go still, right, yeah, yeah. So how did it? You know you mentioned you were destroyed there, cause we did. We did mention this as a possibly a podcast when sportsmen get an injury. But when I say sportsman, sports person, gets an injury and then they can't continue with that sport, and and if you're released, then I suppose because you had the music, then you had something, rather than turning to you know people who filled it with alcohol or gambling or betting, and well, gambling, yeah, same thing, but you know what I mean, mm-hmm. So the music probably kept you out of a hole there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like the music was another career that I could transition into and that's why, for any aspiring young footballers, I think it's important that we keep our options open, because when you're in that environment, a lot of the coaches and the staff members, they'll fill you with a false sense of security. And that's why you see a lot of young footballers when they don't get signed or they pro contract, some of them end up killing themselves. And that's how deep it is, because when you're so young and you're in that environment, that's all you know Football, football, football. So if someone's not keeping their horizons open, when it ends it feels like the world's ended too. So I was in a blessed position because I listened to my parents and I listened to the people around me to get my grades and do other things. So when football ended I didn't get my pro contract.
Speaker 3:Music was going great for me and I just started music just out of love. So I guess once I left Rotherham and I was trialling at other pro clubs, like Barnsley Chef Wednesday, nothing came to fruition from those periods and then I went into Saturday league football so I was playing with men that just wanted to break my leg and that's an awful standard of football because you're around people that have no, they don't care about you, they just want to hurt you. So I learned a lot from that and I matured and developed really fast. But within my time there I was still releasing music and my career was just progressing, going from height to height. And I think, after years of deliberation of am I going to choose football, am I going to do music? Eventually I just put my effort into music and that's when everything changed. Am I going to do music? Eventually, I just put my effort into music and that's when everything changed it sounds like the decision kind of happened naturally, naturally.
Speaker 3:It felt organic. For years people would ask me I remember, charlie, right In school they'd say what do you want to be, football or a musician? And I'd say footballer, straight away. Music was never a possible career. I've just focused on, on on football. And then, as the years went on and things were changing like I didn't get my pro contract at Rotherham people would ask me and then I think about it more, be like not too sure, not too sure. And then at one point, seeing my music career just you know skyrocket and football not go as great as I wanted it to be, I thought you know what? I'm gonna put my all into music and it was the best decision that I ever made because that that's, that's, that was for me, like that was my I was.
Speaker 1:I was answering my calling yeah, I see, um, you see a lot of well, there's been a lot of talk out. Talk about these football parents pushing the kids to touchline managers and all this lot shouting at the kids to do better and better and then, when they don't do better, then they've got nothing else. I mean, it's a brilliant way it's turned out for you, isn't it For sure? Yeah, for sure. And having that other focus. So if we start talking about the music, you said earlier you'd run a few high-level competitions, really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the most recent one was on BBC Free, called the Rap Game UK, and that's a competition where artists from across the world thousands apply to be on the show with the opportunity of winning a record deal on the label of two of the biggest rap artists ever from the uk called crept and conan. So they host it alongside a really big dj called dj target on bbc radio. One extra and you go through a series of challenges where you've got to write a verse or a song in 24 hours, remember it and then perform it the next day in front of global superstars. And imagine I was only nine. How old was I? 20, 20, yeah, 20, 2021.
Speaker 3:So this was like my first experience on TV. You go through other challenges where you got to clash each other. So it's like war, lyrical warfare. You've got to create songs to certain themes, like club songs, write it, memorize it, perform it the next day. So it's very high pressure and it's intense.
Speaker 3:Hundreds of cameras are on you and I've just I've just been used to writing in my bedroom, learning it as well as I can and then performing. So I always felt prepared. But then on the show, you've got less than 24 hours, it's not even a full day, because you're filming, all these cameras are on you, you're around other people. So eagles testosterone everybody wants to win. So it's very high pressure. And I remember on the first two episodes of that show I kept messing up my lyrics Like I couldn't remember them and my mind was going blank, and that was because I was focusing on the pressure and still adjusting to the environment. But after those two episodes when I messed up lads, I just was like I got to show people who I am and from there I just went. I messed up lads. I just was like I got to show people who I am and from there never messed up again. That's what helped me to win. I just really stepped into my power and just showed them who I was.
Speaker 1:Do you think part of overcoming that of making them mess ups? Was there any relevance with the pressure of being on football trials and stuff?
Speaker 3:like that. I was actually going to mention that point. So, because I was in a football environment from a young age, all I knew was pressure. That's all I knew. So I learned how to adapt to that pressure.
Speaker 3:So I remember saying on the show as well, because I was around other artists that had not played football to the same level as me and I could see the way that they were dealing with pressure. They'd be really disrespectful to the same level as me and I could see the way that they were dealing with pressure. They they'd be like really disrespectful to the other contestants because they just didn't know how to to deal with what was going on. They'd lash out, they'd start arguing, all of that and I was just very reserved, kept myself to myself. So I knew that they didn't know how to deal with pressure that well. But because of my background in football I I just felt like I could maintain my skill and professionalism throughout all of that pressure and I think that was something that helped me win that show and just helped me as a person. There's so many transferable skills that I've gained from football that have helped me in my life and as a musician.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's that being exposed to pressure helps you be exposed to a little bit more pressure. Yeah, them environments, isn't it Sort of getting used to it? Yeah, yeah, I think we do that in climbing and with walking. Seb, you know Pressure, can you make it so? Funnily enough, if I can find it.
Speaker 3:Seb smashed the wall.
Speaker 1:Don't listen to charlie guys. Sebb smashed it, he got, so he got told to leave the walk at one point. But we'll get back, we'll get that, we'll get to that. So I've been listening to your tunes, mate, and I'll be honest, for a middle aged white guy, yeah, yeah, not that color should come into any music anyways. But I think it's really good, and it's not just because she's sat there, but some of the stuff that you're singing about is it sort of your background and what you saw, same mute as you. Yeah, it's your story and you're giving that out to other people that may be going through the same stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you believe you should be delivering a message? Because, I'll be honest, a lot of music these days it just sings about nothing or sings about lots of favourable stuff. Yeah, I understand that.
Speaker 3:I guess, for me as an artist, I've always felt like I've got a purpose to share and a message to share, and a big part of that message is my experiences, the things I've gone through, the things I believe in. So I always try and incorporate something like that within my music because I want it to resonate with people within, not just on a surface level. It's fine to make music like that, where it's just fun and, you know, free and that's great. I've made music like that too. But I feel like my ambition as a musician is to create longevity. I know the best way to create longevity is to have something that is meaningful and and people can relate to generationally. So a message is important to me and that's why, with same you as you, or nostalgic love, all of these songs. It's all about my journey, growing up through life. But I know my journey will resonate with so many other people and that's why I try to always put some sort of message into my music.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the other standout track that I well not standout track for message. I've listened to a hustle and dream, yeah, talking about guns and knives. Because, yeah, you know, there's a lot, of, a lot of young, young people that think that's the way to go forward and they're, you know, maybe making that easy book by selling drugs and stuff. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, I suppose that's just a short-term plan and there's no longevity in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true. I I feel like a lot of young people growing up in certain environments. That's all that. That's all that they see. So if that's all you're seeing, then it takes a lot of mental strength to look beyond your environment, because everything I speak about in my music is what I've seen as well. There was a lot that I was growing up around where I could have easily fallen into certain and certain traps and been in a different position today. But because of football, music, my upbringing and the type of person I am, I've always aspired to want more. So I looked beyond my environment and I seeked more. I was trying to learn more, be around different people, and that helped me stay focused, whereas a lot of young people, if they don't have that focus or their parents, there are good set of friends around them. You can easily be swayed. So that's why I think it's important for young people to have a good example or representation for them, to look to people where they can be inspired.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rather than wanting. You know it's all right for people wanting stuff, but I think a lot of what's offered now is a quick gain, but that means there's not much work into it. So all the work that you're doing is sort of high risk if I put it that way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, for real, I understand that and it's very layered this topic that we're speaking on, because when you're living in certain areas and say you haven't got no money and you've seen your parents struggle, if there's a quick route to make money to provide for your family, you can't knock a man for trying to survive, although it's not the right. It's not the right decision to make. Yeah, it's, it's layered, this topic, but what I believe is representation is key. So when, when you're growing up in those environments, if you have someone that you can, you can aspire to be like, it helps you to stay focused and make the right decisions and not just fall into the quick easy room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally agree. So the reason we got you in is the Come Outside community. So we've got the background on that. So tell us what it is first, and then we'll talk about why you started it, what happens, and we'll talk about the walk. Yeah, I'm still good. Yeah, so Come Outside Community. What is it Come?
Speaker 3:Outside Community is a community that encourages people from all different walks of life, from different races, religions, gender, to bring us all together to experience the benefit of the outdoors. And the reason why I started that was I've always loved being outside hiking, walking, running, exercising in general so the outdoors has always played a big part in my life. But during lockdown I started to do a lot more running, by myself, with my family and with my friends, and I was really enjoying it. So then, post lockdown, I kept up with the running and then I started to go to other outdoor communities like parkrun, which I really enjoyed great environment and really nice people.
Speaker 3:But what I found was when I'm outside in these spaces whether that's hiking or running I felt like I was an outsider because I was the only black person there in a lot of these spaces and although the people were really nice and welcoming nothing to do with them, like I was saying the point about representation it was only me or a couple others, so I just felt like I wasn't really involved or around people that looked like me or understood me.
Speaker 3:So as that went on, I was like all of this, all of this is great, but I'd love to be able to run with more people that look like me or from similar backgrounds and had same experiences as me come outside. I want to be able to encourage people from environments like like me for us to come together and reap the benefits of being outside, where it's a community open to all, but with a focus initially to let people know, like I know, that you're from this environment and it might not be deemed as cool to go hiking or running, but look, I'm doing it, I'm the representation and I want you to come and do this as well, if it aligns with you. It was just to create such a space where everyone was supportive, everyone was like-mindedminded, wanted to do the same things and just to really encourage, like, promote community, because there's a lot of division in the world and we see it now, even recently. There's a lot going on, so it it was really just to bring everyone together what actually actually happens on an event.
Speaker 3:So to keep it in relation to my love for running, I thought about an idea of hosting a five-kilometer social run every Saturday and we started that 15 weeks ago and each week there's about 30 to 35 people that are coming, and that was from the first week as well.
Speaker 3:So I could see, I could see the idea was resonating with a lot of people and it's at a social pace.
Speaker 3:So it's not to do with times or ability, because it's an inclusive community. It's people that are 60, young kids that are like 12, 13 people, my age, 25, all genders, all races, all religions, and it's so beautiful because I'm seeing how people that didn't really feel comfortable going to certain spaces to run or hike because there wasn't that much representation there for them, they're coming to come outside and they feel like they're at home and they can see that it's it's accessible for them, because I think a lot of the time, coming from certain communities, you don't see what's available to you, and that was another reason why I wanted to create this. So every Saturday we have a five kilometre run and we start at awkward clock and there's different routes we do each week and we have different pace marshals. So people that want to run fast. They're at the front, we have marshals within the middle of the group and then some at the end, so we cater to all abilities and everyone, so that we can all experience the benefit of the outdoors.
Speaker 1:So how long did you say 13 to 15? Was it 15 weeks, 15 weeks?
Speaker 3:15 weeks it's been, and the focus is obviously running but hiking we'll get on to that exactly and walking.
Speaker 1:But on that I was just going to ask in that 15 weeks have you seen what changes have you seen in people? What I find sometimes myself, when you're taking people out, they don't see the changes in themselves. Okay, you know what I mean. They can't see that, but you, because they're moving forward a little pace or, and it may be improving a little bit, but they don't notice where they've come from. Yeah, so it's good to you know, sort of remind people yeah, yeah, agreed.
Speaker 3:So I get a lot of feedback from the, the members. They openly tell me, like, what they enjoy, how they've progressed. So I I can just tell you from their, from their experience. So a lot of people have said to me oh, I never I wasn't a good runner, but now that I run every saturday, I do another run in the week because I love it. Okay, so people are running more, yeah, which is great because it's encouraging, like that fitness aspect. People have also said that it's benefiting their mental health. People have also said that it's benefiting their mental health being around such a supportive group of people where they can make new friends. We go for coffee and food afterwards. I've seen pockets of people from the community go out together or come and watch me perform live. So it's that it's got the aspect of where people can become friends and be around people that they're alike. Another thing that I've also heard is they never thought these sort of activities was accessible to them. Right, they didn't know where to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a problem with society, really, isn't it? Yeah, rather than you know if, yeah, that's a bit of a worry about them. Yeah, really, for real. So picking up that baton.
Speaker 3:Exactly so. They're like the kind of they're some of the main things I hear alongside all. I love this. It gives me something to wake up to and feel excited about, and, ultimately, people just love being in a space that has good energy. Everyone just wants to be together and encourage one another, and I think, with a lot that's going on in the world or just how people might feel day to day, feeling all of that love whilst exercising, which is good for the body, good for the mind. It's like an energy where you feel so uplifted yeah, we were talking.
Speaker 1:There are a few, so we did. Basically, the background to this is we did a hike on saturday, which we were doing as a fundraiser for the podcast anyway, to keep it going, and and then you guys came along as well. You know, we had such a cross-section of people on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All with different occupations, lived in different areas, different backgrounds. What did you think to the walk, seb? I?
Speaker 2:enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 30 kilometres of the Eadale skyline, yeah, lovely, but what sort of things do you observe, do you think, without putting you on the spot? What were you talking about with the people that were on there.
Speaker 2:I just felt like you know, and I think we've mentioned this in previous podcasts once you get out into nature, you know that it doesn't matter that you don't know someone. You just start chatting about anything. You know, you just get in the conversation because you've got so much time ahead of you and you're walking up hills and mountains and the conversation just flows, doesn't it? You just find a topic, then you kind of pass each other and then you get to the next person. It's like oh, how are you getting on? You know it's. It's like a little bit of chit chat, and then you just find a topic and then you kind of get ingrained in the topic. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's like having a little community around you while you're doing it and by the time you've finished talking, you've done the whole walk. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we had, like what? 12 people Some of them were sort of strangers to each other and you're all basically supporting each other, aren't you? I'll be honest, I see this time and again, because when a tech group's out, so I'm expecting that, you know walking, and then walking, people talking, but there's so much of people getting out of it, so really good, I think everyone enjoyed it. It might have been, you know, type 1, 2 and 3 fun. Have you heard of that? So type 1 fun is when you're doing something and it's fun there, and then short term Type two fun is when you're doing something and it's shit, but next day you think it's really good, okay, yeah. So type three fun is when you're doing something and it's shit then, and it always remains shit. So we're definitely in the type two zone.
Speaker 1:Type one and two for a lot of us, 100% Type one and two for a lot 100 percent. Yeah, one and two. I mean the things you're getting out of that social interaction was amazing. One of everyone talking well, yeah yeah, some of the conversation.
Speaker 2:I don't know what you felt, but some of the conversation went quite deep, didn't they? It's like? But it felt like the further you went with the walk. I remember the last five, six k, I got in a conversation with someone and it just went really deep. It's like, is it because we're tired or because we're now comfortable around each other, or is it because we're just running out of water?
Speaker 1:I don't know, just dehydration. Well, you weren't told to bring water.
Speaker 3:I agree I felt like that height was amazing because I got chance to speak to some people I'd not met before, learn about their stories and, like you were saying, seb, have some really deep and honest conversations where it just felt so fulfilling. And then, in addition to being outside where that's great the views, the fresh air, everything just felt like a really wholesome experience. So thank you to you both.
Speaker 1:No, I felt great, I loved it honestly, for organising that. I do that all well, that's what I do anyway. That's what I do for myself and, like I told you earlier this morning, you know, I've been up to Johnick Day. I've been walking around barefoot near Wakefield picking blackberries. You didn't bring any, no, I didn't. They're in my fridge now for me. It's me that got scratched. So where's, where's the future going with? Come outside. What would you like to, what would you like to do with it? I?
Speaker 3:have a lot of plans for come outside and I'll share a few.
Speaker 3:I'd love to start being able to travel abroad with the community and doing like 10k events in like barcelona, okay, france just different running events where we can go as a community and experience running or just being outside, but in a different place in the world.
Speaker 3:But also hikes across the world as well would be. That's something that I've envisioned. There we go Exactly taking the community outside of the UK and doing things, doing fun things together, which promotes exercise, positive mental wellbeing and that interaction between others. And then also, I think, a short-term goal, I'd love to have at least 75 people out running on a Saturday in Oakwood. Just seeing that the numbers and that community would be amazing. So there's a lot of things that I'd like to do. You know, start merchandise, really create like a solid brand for it so that's all what I'm planning as well and just create like a lot of fun moments where we do things outside of exercise christmas parties, picnics, all of these things that, yeah, I'm thinking about, alongside my business partner, rob, who we most recently partnered together because he really believes in in the brand.
Speaker 1:so there's so many ideas so can I just go back a little bit? Can I ask where you've got wait, what give you the idea, and where you've got this sort of is it a knowledge into the benefits of the outdoors and mental well-being, or is it just? It's from experience? Because I do an awful lot of reading now well, listening, and that's so. It's sort of oh, is it a feeling? Is it a feeling? Yeah, is it? Is it a oh? What's the world? Are you being drawn to it? Yeah, being drawn into it, because what I've done is with my story I think I've gone on it hundreds of times now with the podcast and on the film.
Speaker 1:What I'm now doing is I found my pathway into the outdoors, which totally changed my life and helped me with my PTSD and stuff like that. But now what I'm doing, just because it's a podcast, is trying to dissect it and put it into something that's evidence-based. You know what I mean. This is why this worked for me. This is why I did this, because it would have been longing for me. I just went out walking. I just had enough going to the pub and I went out walking and hang on. I haven't stopped walking since. Really. So, for yourself, is that getting these people out? Is that something you've done because you know it's good for them, or is it just a feeling because of what it's done for you? Both, both, yeah, both.
Speaker 3:So initially it was just a feeling, because growing up and then just going on walks or runs out in parks or whatever, I used to feel like, whoa, this is great, what is this? Or runs out in parks or whatever, I used to feel like, whoa, this is great, what is this? I just used to feel really connected to myself and peaceful and present. So I felt the benefits of the outdoors from a very young age and then continued that throughout my life.
Speaker 3:So then that was a big motivator to start the community to encourage people to feel the same way that I felt, because I know how beneficial it is. But then, looking into more books and researching, you start to see the benefits of, for instance, earthing, so grounding, how just being outside for a walk for 30 minutes just resets your nervous system and how you, your overall well-being and your view on life. So all of these different statistics and facts that I was learning was just backing up my initial feeling that I was getting from just being outside, put it together and I was like, yeah, this feeling has to be shared because we deserve this as humans.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, really. You've just summed it all up. I don't know what else to say to you. No, yeah, spot on, yeah, I mean, I totally, totally agree. I think it's without banging on about it again, which I've done a few times it's one of these things that we've got sort of disengaged from nature and from what we are as part of nature to see so many people coming and joining you and, as someone who's grown up and managed to avoid just sitting in the house looking at a phone and eating shit food, because that's sort of shaping the pathway then and it gets harder to get out, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:It's true, it's true, it's true but I guess for me, obviously wanting to be a footballer from a young age I wasn't. I wasn't focused on staying inside and eating shit, as you'd say. I wanted to just go play football. So that was my focus, which was that was a massive blessing, because when you're young, some people don't know what they want to do. They really don't. But I had a focus and that's really helped me.
Speaker 2:I guess you had a goal that you kind of wanted to achieve. Yeah, you were clever enough not to put all your eggs into one basket. I think we spoke about this on Saturday as well, didn't we? We don't eat eggs, so Go on, of course what?
Speaker 1:do you call it then, putting all these eggs in one basket but go on?
Speaker 2:not putting all my tofu in one basket let's go with that, putting all your tofu in one basket. I think we were talking about it on the weekend, when we that you also, even now, do other things. Yeah, and I completely forgot where.
Speaker 3:I was going with this because you put me off. Sorry, bud.
Speaker 1:I think I know things. Yeah, and I completely forgot my.
Speaker 3:I was going with it, oh sorry you put me off, sorry, but so I think I know what you're trying to allude to. It's like I've always had a goal from a young age and then, although the goal has changed, I've still I've still remained open to doing other things, so not keeping your goal. It's a change in the goal and being open to like pivoting and not putting my tofu all in one basket and just keeping the tofu in each different basket. So that's always helped me stay focused and continue to learn as well. So I feel like that's the use of getting up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at. Sorry, bud, it's a little bit there mate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, this is it. Well, this is what you get on the walking as well, isn't it? I seem to find that when you're out walking with people, you have that connection and that's what it is. You know you can be talking about something and you are just connecting with people and you're sort of pre-empting what people are going to say. There's an awful lot going on in the mind and the body when you're out doing this walking, and the running Facts.
Speaker 3:Facts and one thing that I've found is running alone is great because you have a lot of time to connect with yourself, yeah, but when you're running with a group of people, like I mentioned before, that energy is feel so powerful and you feel part of something. You feel it's very powerful, positive and encouraging and I don't think there's much feelings like that, because you feel safe and supported and you know that what you're doing is good for your body and you're around other like-minded people. So just everything energetically just feels so high.
Speaker 1:So a lot of support for each other on Saturday, won't they? For real? For real, it's one of those things where people undertake a walk what was it? 33k or something like that, which you know people don't do every day. So when they start getting their aches and pains, physically, they can do it, but you know, if you're not, you start getting them niggles, don't you, Seb? Yeah, you referring to my age. No, I'm referring to your knee going on the way down that last hill. But if you're not used to doing it, you know. And then so what it does? It brings people together and you know, instead of fragmenting and we saw it again certainly that people will help each other and help the people in the group get through.
Speaker 3:For real, and if they weren't in the group, they probably wouldn't have done the walk first and foremost, and if they was to walk that by themselves, they might have finished it a lot earlier, not push themselves to continue. So I think how we went on the walk and all of us together, we really helped some people that were struggling and that was beautiful to see it was a kind of joint achievement, not you achieve things on your own, but then it was like a communal achievement as well yeah same time have you spoke to anyone, anybody from the walk since?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, a few, a few of them. They're all all great positive feedback. So some of them were saying how that hike brought back their love for hiking. Okay, because some had not hiked in a while. Others were saying I didn't think I could do it, but I feel so proud of myself for doing it. And others were just saying how beautiful the day was, the weather, meeting. We were, meeting you guys and just speaking to people, getting to know people they they were alluding to they felt like they found a community that they can be a part of. That aligns with yeah. Well, that's brilliant. I think we should plan some more to be really please, we have to, we should definitely.
Speaker 3:we really to be I really please, we have to.
Speaker 2:We should definitely. We really should. So how can people join you on your hiking, on your running? Yeah, how can they get in touch with you?
Speaker 3:So how, how you can join the community is on. We're on Instagram and TikTok and the app is come outside co. All one word and one word. And on socials we're always posting about what's coming up in the week. We post like testimonies. So after the runs we get videos of people giving their experience of it or the hikes we're always posting on socials. But we also have a Strava running community where you can join that see the different routes that the members are doing or you can post your routes on there and we interact with each other on Strava, just supporting one another again. And we also have a whatsapp chat where everyone in the community is in there. We've got the running community in there, the hiking community in there, all as one. So that's where we stay up to date with the different hikes, different routes that we might be planning or the events that are coming up as a community. So that's Instagram and TikTok at Come Outside Co and to join the WhatsApp and Strava group, it's in the bio, the link in the bio on Instagram. Cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, are we about time to wrap up, seb, unfortunately, unless you've anything to add. Thank you so much for having me, guys. Well, what I would like to do is one thank your group for coming out with us on Saturday. That made it a great event, didn't it? We do have to say thank you to Keith who came along from Rochdale Massive that supported him so well, and we'd like to thank everyone that donated, because it was a fundraiser for the podcast to keep us going with all your technology. So nice of you to say that I just spend words, you spend money on technology, yeah.
Speaker 1:Trying to make it easier and a massive thank you to yourself, giovanni, for doing what you're doing with the Come Outside community, because it's great, and all your dedication to that. And coming in and spreading Myself, giovanni, for doing what you're doing with the Come Outside community, because it's great, and all your dedication to that and coming in and spreading the word, sharing the word of your enthusiasm.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. I really enjoy myself and just want to highlight all the great things that you're both doing with hosting the podcast, bringing people in to share their story, to inspire others, and all the work that you're doing with the hiking, the earthing, the people that you're teaching. All these things you're doing, the work that's helping people improve their mental health.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you so props to you, man, for real Cheers. Bud, I'm crying here, don't cry, Don't cry.
Speaker 3:And Seb for all the work he does on the technology side that no one sees.
Speaker 1:Yeah, without Seb there's no podcast.
Speaker 2:No, exactly the mental stuff that Seb's got just for working with me, because of how computer illiterate and technology illiterate, yeah, so yeah, thank you for that and obviously, whatever you do with your community wouldn't happen if you were such a positive person, because you can totally see, as soon as you walk in a room, you know. You know you've got a positive aura about you. So when we were on the walk as well, you were the one constantly smiling, you were getting the group. There were some people right behind when they're nearly crying and bits, yeah, telling me off to get away. You your smile on, you kept positive and you got everyone through. So that's amazing. It wouldn't happen if you weren't a character. Thank you so much, seb. Right, so when's the next walk?
Speaker 1:The next walk. Well, we'll get it in, we'll get it planned, cool Right, I think that's us, seb, is it?
