White Fox Talking
Talk About Mental Health & Well-Being… Why Not? Mark ‘Charlie’ Valentine suffered life changing mental illness, before beginning a journey to recovery and wellness; the darkness of PTSD transformed by the light atop mountains and beyond. Mark is now joining forces with Seb Budniak, to make up the ‘White Fox Talking’ team. Through a series of Podcasts and Vlogs, ‘White Fox Talking’ will be bringing you a variety of guests, topics, and inspirational stories relating to improving mental well-being. Find your way back to you! Expect conversation, information, serious discussion and a healthy dose of Yorkshire humour!
White Fox Talking
E60: From Leeds to the Limelight - Josh Warrington's Inspiring Boxing Journey and Mental Resilience
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Ever wondered how sheer determination can shape a champion? Josh Warrington, the Leeds Warrior himself, joins us to share his incredible journey from a young boy in Leeds to becoming an elite athlete. Hear firsthand how the mental health benefits of boxing and an unwavering mindset can inspire profound transformations beyond the ring. Josh opens up about the sacrifices, challenges, and the pivotal moments that fueled his ascent to the top, offering insights into the world of professional boxing that are both raw and inspiring.
As we navigate Josh's path, the discussion sheds light on the crucial role of mental resilience in sports and life. Discover the financial and personal strains young boxers face and the relentless drive that kept Josh going in the face of adversity. With stories of self-doubt, exhaustion, and the power of encouragement, Josh provides a blueprint for overcoming challenges with the help of a supportive social circle and a burning ambition to succeed.
In a world filled with social media scrutiny and public criticism, Josh reveals how he managed to stay mentally tough, drawing lessons from boxing legends like Ricky Hatton. From maintaining a balanced diet to embracing the influence of a positive mindset, his journey offers valuable lessons for aspiring athletes and anyone seeking personal growth. Tune in to learn how maintaining focus, discipline, and adaptability can lead to success, both inside the ring and in everyday life.
Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast. I'm Matt Charlie-Valentine and at the controls is Seb. Hi Charlie, hello Seb, how are you Alright Stressed after the little technical hit?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm sweating.
Speaker 1:What would I do without you, because it's quite a big podcast for us today.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is indeed.
Speaker 1:Oh, mate, would have been studded straight on us phones, weren't we recording. Don't think we would last very long. So I say it's a big podcast because we have in the studio the Leeds warrior, josh Warrington. Welcome Josh. The White Fox Talking podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me, thanks for having me, charlie and Seb.
Speaker 1:It's great to get you in and I just want to put some basis on this. So when we first met and spoke about this this what a couple years ago now wasn't? It was down at the anniversary from the incident where I ended up getting diagnosed with ptsd and I was talking to andy andy loftus and yourself and he was saying I said I've got to get off, I've got to go now, I've got to go to town. And he's like no, stay out. With the stay out, I said I can't, I'm recording a podcast. I remember it clear as day because I hadn't had a drink. Just said oh, what's podcast about? I went mental health and we're just going to start and do some. And josh went I'll do one about focus and mindset.
Speaker 1:So thank you very much for that, josh I'm here eventually yeah, I mean I've been sort of, I've sort of beat you into submission with all the text. I'm trying it's just arranging stuff in it is it's just that.
Speaker 3:it's just um, you know life of with the boxing, the family and and just uh, sometimes my organisation is a little bit messy, but yeah, finally got there, pal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant Thanks for giving up your time. Yeah, I think it's just one of the things, isn't it? Because the dedication that you've got to show to be an elite sportsman, which is what you are, that level, it's a lifestyle, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 3:I say this often to my missus and my wife, my friends and those closest to me. I have to keep reminding them as well as even though they know that, that you have to be selfish and anybody who's successful in anything has to be selfish. You know, you have to dedicate yourself, you have to dedicate time, you have to dedicate hours, and it does mean missing out on sociable time. You know family time and things that you want to do to enjoy bits and bits of life, but, like I say, you can't have, you know, the best of both worlds. You can't have absolutely humongous amounts of success and you know, go partying or spending so much, you know so many hours at home on the sofa with the family.
Speaker 3:We all would love to do that, but it has to be. You know one or the other in the very, very top levels of sport or business, or you know politics, and if you want to just be an average level, then I think you can get away with it. You can have the best of both worlds, but I think it's a very, very small percentage they get, especially in boxing, they get to the you know that elite level where it is a couple of percent, and that is the difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So people might be thinking why have we got Josh Warren, a boxer, in to talk about mental health? But I don't think boxing gets a. It doesn't have a great reputation sometimes until you know. It's this thing about you know people taking a bang to head and there's this thing about about basically fighting for a career, isn't it? But what we're talking about, with yourself and the idea of getting you in, if someone can show that 1% or 2% of the dedication and mindset that you show, because you're talking about small margins, aren't you at elite level?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if somebody can take something from that and think you know what, I'm going to get off at sofa and I'm going to get off at sofa and I'm going to go out and I'm going to do a run. So we're talking about these margins. What if we started with the background, how you got into boxing quickly and then went through? Because, like I said, there's got to be that change in your life where you're going to make it as a professional boxer and then make it as an elite level. So it's that getting that focus. What clicked in for you? Was it just talent or dedication?
Speaker 3:that's a very good question, charlie. I mean, I started boxing as a young lad. A lot of people know me, you know. Those who do know me know my story. I've, you know, grew up in ellison and area of leeds not not very well offered out like that, but at the same time, you know we, you know there were food on the table but we weren't draped in fancy designer clothes and all like that. We just didn't matter as kids, we just enjoyed ourselves. I was just an active kid, loads of energy, and ended up falling into boxing.
Speaker 3:Fell in love with boxing when I became a teenage lad and a few times come close to knocking on Ed because growing up in a council estate and at the time it wasn't really cool to be doing boxing, I mean lads played football. But when you're growing up in a rough council estate and at the time it wasn't really cool to be doing boxing, I mean lads played football. But you know, when you're growing up in a rough council estate, it's normally about what designer training you've got on. You know how hard you're at. You know the brotherly is out. You know, can you have a, can you have a scrap? You know, do you dare do what everyone else is doing, because you recreational drugs or having a little tickle with a drink, but I don't know, from a, from a young lad, I always had the mindset of this, isn't it? You know, this, isn't it? I used to look at some lads I'm knocked about with and it's just sometimes you, you do become part of your environment and stuff. But I looked at them and thought this will level it out. It'll level itself out when, as we get older, you know, I used to look at them chipping in for I don't know a 10 bag, and when I get stoned on a Friday night, 14 years old and like they thought, you know, they were king of the world and I was deemed as boring because instead of me joining in with them, I'd go for a run. Instead of getting the bush to certain areas, you know, I'd run. Instead of having a couple of cans of Carlin and getting someone to go and shop for us, I'd have a bottle of water or a bottle of Kassade and that would be the difference and I was kind of seen as a bit of an outcast and maybe not too favoured of. Oh, we'll go for a call for Josh, because Josh would be boring, but I always felt like it was going to be worth it eventually.
Speaker 3:And maybe a lot of it that came from my old man. He used to tell me all the time that you might not realise it this moment in time because you're only young. But when you get older, you know, you look back in life and think, fucking hell, I wish I could have my time again. And I think a little bit of that as well came from when I used to box in the small shows as an amateur boxer. You'd fight in working men's clubs up and down the country and that was a time when you know you could smoke in the pubs and you know they were jam-packed on housing estates in Barnsley or up in Newcastle, the South Shield or whatever. And nine times out of ten you get out a ring and you go over and get your little plastic trophy, probably a five-pound trophy, but you felt like the king of the world getting one of them.
Speaker 3:And whenever you'd be, you normally have the same kind of fella in different accents up and down the country, same kind of dress sense. You know big gold chain on the wrist, big gold chain around the neck and you know a bit of a show buttoned open a bit of an airy chest. Hey, come here, come here, come here. Hey, hey, listen, keep you doing what you're doing. They might stash a five pound note down your vest. You know it's a little bit well done.
Speaker 3:I might have had a bet on you with a couple of the pals around the table. Hey, keep doing what you're doing, pal. And I tell you what. Then I have a little puff of the Lambert and Butler and put the pint down. I tell you what. I tell you, if I could have my time again, I'd be doing what? Car with my dad? And I'd say Dad, someone else has said it to me again. I said what? What have they said to you? He said I've said it again. What do you mean what they've said? I said they've said you know, if I could have my time again, what do they mean by that?
Speaker 3:And at the time, as a 13, 14, 15-year-old lad, you don't see so far in front, because time moves slowly. You're just developing, you're learning about the world. You think you know a lot, but you don't know, fuck all. And then, before you know it, you're doing 18, and you're not at school, no more. And you do have to go find a job and then you're cattling on your mum and dad and you've got to get your own wage and that's it. Time just fast forwards massively. Before you know it, you're receding, you're in your 30s, you start aching everywhere in your body and that's it. So from a young age I kind of listened to that advice and just you know, from a, I'd say, like a teenage lad.
Speaker 1:I've kind of had a bit of a different mindset, a bit of an older ed on young shoulders at the time. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen something on the internet you know when I'm scrolling and it was basically you know, we look at health and fitness and diet and we're not. Actually it's not what's happening now. I might satisfy myself with I don't know some chips and a can of Coke now, but it's what's happening further on down the line, isn't it? Yes, 10, 20 years. So I suppose if you hadn't put that groundwork in back then, then you wouldn't be where you are now.
Speaker 3:No, most definitely. I mean, one of my biggest attributes as a professional boxer is my engine. And now people who don't know much about boxing might say, well, all you don't know much about boxing might say, well, all your boxes should be fit. But I think, like I say, 12 rounds, when you've got nerves and pressure and an expectation, it can eat away your energy sources and, yeah, a lot. All boxers in this day and age you have scc coaches and they do dietitian well, but I've been doing it for such a long time that it's all installed into my dna. So things that fighters have only been doing for X amount of time I'd probably be doing double slash, triple because I've been obsessed from a young boy and, like I say, that stems from my mindset, just installing into myself a way of living and discipline.
Speaker 1:So you've obviously got talent. What would you say yourself is the balance, is it talent or graft with yourself?
Speaker 3:It's a good question again, but I'd probably point towards the amount of graft you put into it. You know, if you're not willing to work and put it in, then you're going to get found out and I think that develops what goes on upstairs. I've always said, charlie, when you get to a certain level of sport and I think sport is one of the you know something that you can put at the very top, above politics and above even businesses, because you know what sport does to people and how it affects the watches and the supporters and the fans. Business people can't do that. You know what I mean. Politicians can't do that. You know what I mean. Politicians can't do that. I mean the whole world's talking about politics at the moment in time, but they don't start crying over like sports people, you know.
Speaker 3:But as fans people, they get obsessed with them, don't they? You know it can change how people go about their week and the months and maybe the years, I think, as we well know. So, yeah, I think, um, I think the mindset that I've always said that when you get to a certain level, and especially getting to elite sport, when you get to athletes in terms of boxing because boxing for me is one of his gladiatorial sport. It dates back thousands, of thousand years. And when you get to a level where they have similar kind of fitness, similar kind of strength, similar kind of speed, similar, similar kind of strength, similar kind of speed, similar kinds of skills, what is that difference? How can somebody in a close fight start pulling away in the later rounds and somebody just not be able to catch up, even though they're just as fit, just as strong, just as fast? How can they not keep up to that level? And I believe it all comes down to mindset, it all comes down to what goes on in between the years.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if we were to say I suppose now in your career, let's go back to earlier, what drove you then to get out of bed? I don't know if you're training a new team, but I once trained with Darren Rhodes. Yes, I trained with Darren when he was training for a middleweight fight and I was off to Belize and I've never been as fit in my life, getting up at 5 o'clock and doing a 10K run every morning and then training three times a day. But you're thinking because I had something to aim for and I wanted to survive in Belize. But when you're doing that and you're having to train between fights, that motivation back when you were younger, before your career really took off yeah, what drove you then?
Speaker 3:a few things. So when I was 16 I was very close to joining raw marines. Academically I was not too bad, not too daft. I came up with quite a few gsses and I decided to stay on. In sixth form I was studying sport and psychology, got into my first couple of assignments and I'm flying, absolutely flying. But then I just got, I don't know, my head fell off a little bit, maybe because of stuff I was going at home or back then as a kid my mum and dad were going through quite a bit at home, so it was like a war zone. I didn't want to be there. So, like I say, I was quite. I was close to joining the Marines because I liked their mindset of training and how they lived and stuff like that. But my dad talked me out of it and said listen, you're not too far away from being a professional. I know you want to do that as well. You know, give that a go and you know, if it doesn't work out you can always look at doing something else.
Speaker 3:So turned pro at 18, but there's fuck all money in boxing as a young fighter. If you're not coming from the Olympic squad or anything like that, then you're fighting on small shows for four, five, 600 quid. I mean, when you balance out how much training and effort and how much money you've got to invest into becoming a boxer, you're losing money. You're losing money. Medicals at the time were like £2,000 per year. Boxing license is a couple hundred quid. Then you've got your nutritionist. I mean you can go into asda and buy a processed meal for four, for three times the cheaper price and buying the ingredients to to eat healthy. So you know it costs you.
Speaker 3:So I, at the same time, I ended up getting a job as a dental technician. So, and then learning to study to become qualified as a dental technician. So I had a one stage in my life. I had a balancing university studies, a job four days a week as a 95 as a dental technician and a professional boxer, as well as trying to promote myself and and sell tickets for for the fights. And let me tell you they were tough, tough times, charlie. You know they were. They were very tough times because why is an 18, 19, 20 year old when no one really knows who you are, nobody knows your profile? You know you're just another could have been or has been, or whatever you think? Oh, look at this lad. He thinks he's going to be the next Rocky or whatever. And you're trying to convince people. Why do you want to pull yourself out of bed to go for a run or miss a party? But someone just in the back of my mind says don't give up.
Speaker 3:I had a goal from early on and that was to win a British title, which you know the Lord Lonsdale belt, for those who don't know is like you win a British title. It's one of the oldest prizes in not just boxing but in sport on a professional level, and I just wanted to win one of them. To you know, in my own self, know that I've achieved something in life, and anything beyond that would have been a bonus. So, in terms of monetary value, all I wanted to do is maybe have a house deposit, like a mortgage deposit, and maybe a car on the drive, and that would have been more than enough. And that's what I set out to do.
Speaker 3:And listen, charlie, it's not always. I haven't always had this super, not every. Every day I woke up and thought, yeah, I'm fucking getting it today. I'm getting it today. There were times when I thought I can't do this. There were times when I'd come away from gym body in bits, black eyes and fat lips and bush nose because I've been bad in sparring. You know times when I'd come away from training sessions where I thought I'm ready to pack it in. There were times when I didn't want to put my trainers on and go for a run. Times when I was sat at my desk at work or making models falling asleep. Times when I was in lectures in university and I would be ironed on the assignments that had to be handed in and thinking I can't do this. There were times I was so close to giving up but every time I felt like giving up, someone else would just come by and say I need to keep up with it, apart on the back from my gaffer, or, you know, I managed to just get over the line with an assignment and, you know, get a well done from one of the lecturers.
Speaker 3:But one of the biggest things and I've told this story many times was I was selling tickets to one of my pals and at the time we were around 20, 21 years old, years old and again, you think you know everything, but you know you don't know. Fuck all about life and, uh, I was close, like I said, to giving it all up because I was just. I felt like I was just getting nowhere with my career and getting nowhere really with life and just existing. No, I won't have much of a relationship with my now wife, natasha. I won't really see my pals much. I won't fighting for titles. You know, I was fighting on small shows and it felt like a million miles away from before I graduated from university.
Speaker 3:I remember meeting one lad and he jumped in my car and he said hey, pal, how you doing? You ready to get ready for your next fight? And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm just a bit just a bit, you know, a bit tired, mate. He said yeah, seeing, I'm like I want this big title fight. You know I'm just busy working and that I don't get to fucking see all you lot and you're just tired, mate. He said, yeah, but why worry? He said well, for instance, you're all going out this weekend, you're all going to a party and I'm not going to be there. I know everyone's going. I've seen on, you know, myspace, and I've seen on Facebook that everyone's going there but I'm not. And he went, josh.
Speaker 3:So fucking what he said listen, we've been doing the same thing for the last four or five years Thursday, friday, saturday, sunday, oceania, Lloyd's Bar, top Yateses, fucking Tiger, tiger, all the same places, all the same faces. It's boring. It's boring, mate. He said listen, every one of us looks at you and don't think we can't see what you're doing. We all looks at you and don't think we can't see what you're doing. We all look at you and think, wow, he's still doing it. Fair play to him, and we all wish we could have your discipline. He said listen, look, how many of us could play football and how many of us have turned it into something. Fuck all. We're all developing bellies. You know, we just drink and that's all we. But at that moment in time it gave me a kick up the backside when I needed it the most, and from then onwards things started going good. Later that year I graduated from university and then, a year later, I won my first professional title, and I guess from that stage I've never really looked back.
Speaker 2:That must take a significant amount of mental focus to overcome. Your friends going out and your university and trying to keep on track with whatever you're doing. Do you think your diet had to play with that? Do you think your ambitions had to play with that? You know what. What kept you going?
Speaker 3:like the lifestyle of of you know. You know not getting turning to turn into like alcohol on a weekend when you're getting stressed, or coming home from work and feeling stressed, not turning to that and, in a roundabout way, seeing what was going on at home because, like I say, me and my mum and dad were going through a bit of well, world War II, world War III, basically in our house and there were times when I had seen my old man turn to a bottle of rum to to calm himself down, but then I see the side effects of that the day after. So that was never an option. I always looked at other boxers who'd fallen at like just before they get into that top level, and a lot of it was down to their lifestyle. So I learned that if I want to get to the top level, then go for them footsteps. So I think that always living clean was always a benefit. But I think, more than anything, I wasn't too shy to ask for advice when I needed it. I wasn't too shy to reach out.
Speaker 3:And this stigma I know it's a stigma, but I think it keeps getting put out there a lot more often these days that you know it's okay to talk and, you know, reach out to people. But I can't echo enough how important it is. You know, we human beings are social creatures, you know as a bit and and, and that's why things like social media thrives. I mean, it's not the same as actually having a one-to-one conversation with people, but when people communicate on there, that's why it's so big, because we, we are social creatures by habit and by nature.
Speaker 3:So I, as I worked as a dental technician, I worked with a great bunch of guys and a few of them more or less did become like family members. And they give me a bit some bats of advice and and and and, and they give me a bit of talking, probably when I needed it, probably when they could see that I was dipping, could see that I was a little bit quiet and reserved in myself, and they'd say, josh, what's up? And I might talk about it. And then I think just that got me over the line. And you know, I'd sometimes ask in different circles. You know of people different people. I knew who was a little bit older than me because you know of people different people. I knew who was a little bit older than me because, you know, with age comes experience. So you know a lot of people who've been through traumatic stuff or been through life that I'd not been through. They could give me ways of how they came through it. So I think that helped, certainly in the younger years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's an awful lot of temptations, isn't there? And distractions, and we had Roy in a couple of lot of temptations in there and distractions and we had roy in a couple of how many a few episodes ago and he spoke really well about the, the mind. So we've got our conscious self. We're not going too far off this topic. We've got our conscious self. But you've got this. You've always got this thing in your, in your head, this voice saying you know it might be saying, oh, josh, just staying, but just stay in bed, yeah. And you know you're saying it's I don't want to go out at five o'clock on a January morning running. You could just stay in bed and miss that training session. But you've obviously combated that, yeah, and worked with that. Do you do any sort of mind work like that at all?
Speaker 3:I have done it at times over the years. It's funny, actually, because I'd not done any for years in terms of working with somebody, because I got to a stage where I just do it myself. But on my last fight, which was back in September time, I lost at Wembley and during the fight I feel like I had a mental block in the fight because I started off really, really well and then all of a sudden I froze and I just I wasn't fit enough. I was strong enough. I never got beat up, but I just didn't do enough. And I'm known in the boxing world as one of the the fittest fighters about always. You know have a high pace, but I never threw the punches and I feel like I had a mental block in there. And so I have spoken to a psychologist of late.
Speaker 3:Recently I've done a bit of been doing a bit of work with him, but as a younger self coming home from work I didn't realize it at the time, but I did the forms of mindfulness and meditation because what I used to do, I used to come home from work and, you know, try to get a little nap, but I could never nap because sometimes I was a little bit nervous, maybe. I thought I had a bit of a sparring session later on and I wanted to perform. Well, then I'd adrenaline be pumping through my body so I could never sleep. But what I would do is like I just like try centre myself. So I'd go home, lay on bed, close my eyes and just try to relax as much as possible. And I didn't realise that only later down the line I realised that it's a form of meditation, a form of mindfulness. I used to do a lot of visualisation as well of when I wanted to see myself in the next year, in the next few months, in the next few weeks. And then, I think, think, really started to get into delving deeper when, around 2015, when 2014 yeah, 2014-15 because at one stage or in a short space of time, I went from fighting in leisure centres and being relatively unknown in the boxing world to headlining shows on Sky Sports.
Speaker 3:Fighting in big arenas. I mean going from fighting in front of a couple of hundred people to fighting in front of tens of thousands of people. I mean also names, sponsors on your shorts, throwing all kinds of money at you, having more money than you know what to do with. And it all happened more or less in quick succession. All of a sudden you're bashing people up in the ring and everyone's chanting your name, they're calling you the next Ricky Atten and you're bloody sprinting before you can walk and I kind of got carried away with that and I think in one performance I come out of the ring and I thought I'd done all right, but the critics absolutely tortured me and said that if I want to get to that very, very top level, then I'm not going to get there because I can't do this, I can't do that and I can't do the other. But then what comes? Criticism is outside criticism.
Speaker 3:So obviously with social media you can have Joe blogs or you've never met in your life, call you this, that and the other. They can talk about how good you are, even though they've never done a pair of boxing gloves in life, probably probably get out of breath running up the stairs. They're telling you how good you are and they're, you know, an expert in in sport. So all of a sudden I'm going on my social media and I'm like used to pats on their back and accolade and you're fantastic, josh to. You're a fucking wanker warring in. You're a cunt like. You're never going to go far. You're not good enough and like, no matter how thick of a skin you've got, it would affect me, like I don't know you.
Speaker 3:So I replied back to him listen, I know you're talking to blah, blah and all of a sudden he's getting all his mates involved. They're probably thinking, oh, might be setting a pub. Hey, we've got Warren in here, let's all jump on board. So I'm getting left, right and centre and that's just one account. And then it starts coming from ultimate more and more and more. You take yourself away. Go on holiday, go off. I know I'm going off social media for two weeks. I'm going to put my phone down. Come back. Right, I'm going to get back onto it. Put a tweet out. Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dms filled with all these people you don't know giving you a stick. They're like whoa, what have I done wrong to you? So you're arguing back with them again and eventually I'm like I'm losing my shit here. I'm losing my shit. I'm finding myself arguing with a load of people I don't know. I'm still working three days a week as a dental technician on Sky Sports on Saturday night, but I'm going back to work on a Monday morning and my gaffer is noticing it, like Josh. I know you're still working, so put your phone down, mate, because I can't work. Sorry, phil, I'm just getting wound up here.
Speaker 3:And then eventually I remember going and speaking to a few other people and I remember having a chat with Ricky Atten and Ricky Atten giving me bits and bits of advice, saying, listen, you shouldn't worry about him. You shouldn't worry about him, shouldn't worry about him. And me saying no, rick, you don't understand. You're a, you're a legend in the sport. Back in the day you were adored everywhere. He says. I said, but you didn't have social media.
Speaker 3:Back then he says do you think it's fucking changed for me? I said, mate, everyone loves you. He said no, no, no, twisted is listen, yeah, I would love, I would adore people in the street, but I can still put stuff on there on social media and some people can still have a go at me, so I can get on a Saturday afternoon, I can pick my phone up and put it to it out saying come on, city. And within a few minutes somebody could message me privately or put a message underneath and say you stupid fat bastard, you should have slit your wrist when you had the chance. He says what do I do then? Get upset about it? He says, no, I block them. And I said, rick, I don't want to block them because I feel like they've won. I feel like they've got one over on me. He says you're too obsessive. You're too obsessive. He says you know what it is. Why are you getting upset about him when you've never met him and he couldn't even lace your boots? Why are you getting upset with him? You've done so much what he can only dream about and you know what.
Speaker 3:It changed my perspective of thinking and it also works with someone after that because I knew that in that fight that we were talking about where that all stemmed from.
Speaker 3:I lost my train of thought in that fight because I was thinking about what the crowd were thinking instead of what I should do. I was thinking about pleasing the fans and being entertaining for the crowd instead of what I should have stuck to. And I started to do a lot of work with one of my SNC coaches at the time and we worked a lot on just focus and breathing exercises and stuff like that. And the next fight I went into I don't remember anything about it apart from going back to the corner in the 11th round and sitting down and I had small ass, I had the all-splinkers on and my old man saying you're going into the 11th round now and I couldn't even believe that so much of the fight had passed, because I was that focused and that zoned into it and for me it just gave another backup of how powerful the mind is when you're truly zoned into something.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you've gone. You spoke about the social media there because that's it. I bang onto it with some young people that I work with and for someone like that, you know we've got people young people affected by social media taking their own lives and things. You know we've got people young people affected by social media taking their own lives and things. You know what I mean. And so for you to come out and say that that's brilliant, mate, honestly, thanks for that. Yeah, this thing with the mind, you know, and that just that little bit, so I didn't want to mention it last fight I'll be honest.
Speaker 1:But that mindset there. You've said so we don't know what's happening in the future, do we no? So let's keep away from that question, because you'll drop your gloves in the ring, but that's because of disappointment, yes, disappointment with yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, frustration and I don't know. I kind of had one of my good pals, liam Harrison, sat in my subconscious as well because I'd watched him two weeks prior to me fighting sat in my subconscious as well because I'd watched him two weeks prior to me fighting and he did something similar he laid his gloves down in the ring. But I kind of done it in a bit of a rash decision without actually analysing where I went wrong. I think it was just more out of frustration because that were my third loss on the bounce and it's funny because it's elite level sport and all them fights couldn't have gone either way. I mean, two years ago I boxed in a fight. After coming back I won the world title. I boxed again in the first defense. I had my jaw broken and I kind of went into that fight with a very weak mindset, doubting myself, pressure, and I started the first six rounds absolutely terrible, until my old man got inside my head and I came alive and I absolutely stormed the last six rounds and I thought I'd done enough to keep holding my belt. But they gave the decision the wrong way. Fast forward. Ten months later I'm back in the ring fighting for another world title back to the old Warrington, the old Josh Warrington that they all loved seeing and watching in previous years. But then a scenario happens where I get a point deducted which I felt was very unfair and then threatened by the referee to be disqualified if I did the same action, which again, I don't think I deserve for that to happen. And then I end up losing my frustration, sort of losing my mindset, losing my focus and losing the game plan, just becoming very recklessly and trying to give more of an output, but just doing it in a frustration manner, not being disciplined. And then I get caught with a shot, get put on my backside and I end up with the fight being stopped. And then this one I've just watched this dad, like I say, it's almost like speaking to a psychologist of late. He more or less says I was kind of going through that fight with a form of PTSD because in the fight previously against Lee Wood, one instant changed the fight. And let's give me a little, create a little bit of a picture.
Speaker 3:I was in a fight against this guy. I was winning every round up until round seven. And I had, like I say, in a fight against this guy. I was winning every round up until round 7 and I had, like I say, in that fight. In that round I had a point taken off me because I illegally threw an illegal punch where I hit him at the back of his head. But it was very controversial because he was facing me. So it was physically impossible to do that and the referee at the time did threaten to disqualify do that again. So I lost my head, went absolutely bananas trying to throw all kinds of punches. Lee very well timed a punch, I went down and I get my cup, but the referee says I'm unsteady and waves it off.
Speaker 3:In my last fight against Kikachi, which was my next fight, there was a spell in the fourth or fifth round, I'm not too sure.
Speaker 3:But I started the fight really really well and really energetic and Kakachi has a bit of a spell when he comes forward and I put my hands up and I go into a bit of a shell, but I never really seemed to come out of that shell and someone who's normally used to throwing 100 punches around and always busy and always energetic, just it seemed like offering an handful.
Speaker 3:And yes, I'm not taking nothing away from Kakachi, because he did a lot of things to make it difficult for me, but I didn't seem to have the same snap, the same ferocity that I normally have. So I carried that all the way throughout the fight and then that frustration led me to put my gloves down because I thought instant response it's not there. It's not there without actually analysing why I wasn't behaving like I normally am. And analysing it, I feel that mind can be changed physically. If it's not there, then you get to a certain level and a certain age that if physically it's not there, then it's not there. But I feel that the mind can be brought back forward.
Speaker 1:What I'm getting from this is elite athletes. We're talking margins and just that little bit of mindset. Was it Tyson who said everyone's got a game plan until they're getting punched in?
Speaker 2:the face? Yeah, was it Tyson who said everyone's got a game plan until they're getting?
Speaker 1:punched in the face. Yeah, yeah. So how much. Obviously you're doing your research on the other fighter. And then what happens if someone comes in and just doesn't box the way that you expected them to box? Do you have to change your game plan, Is it yeah?
Speaker 3:I think that comes from experience and you know my old man doesn't look most athletic but he's got a hell of a brain behind him and we analyse different situations, different scenarios, so we always have a plan B, C, d. You know, if, like you say, someone comes to the ring and don't do what we're expecting, there can be moments in training camp when I'll walk in and we'll have been doing regular sparring with a certain sparring partner because he emulates the style of what my opponent or the fight I'm having with does. But then I might walk in and there might be someone completely different there, who is nothing like my opponent, and I'll say what are you doing? To my old man? He'll say how do you know he's going to do exactly what we're preparing for it's?
Speaker 3:You know I need to change upstairs. I need to change our way of thinking, you way of preparing for it's. You know I need to change upstairs. I need to change your way of thinking. You're getting a bit too comfortable. So little fruit scenarios like that, you know it always surprises us with and I think it makes you adaptable. So if, like I say, if an opponent wants to change, then you're preparing for it.
Speaker 2:Do you know what really interests me when I watch a boxing fight? And when the boxers come in into the ring, you know, do their whole walking with the music and everything. Yeah, they always look extremely focused. And yourself getting to that stage in that short period of time and you spoke about the zone where you kind of zone out into that concentration how do you get to that stage in that kind of pre-buildup when there's so much going around you?
Speaker 3:Again, it comes from experience. But the best way I can say is like it's kind of come over time. It's kind of come over time, a bit of trial and error. But I think the easiest way I've learned to focus on the moments is like just keep it to that specific moment island era. But I think the easiest way I've learnt to focus on the moments is like just keep it to that specific moment. And that might not make sense, but let me out here. So I used to think about the fight as soon as I wake up.
Speaker 3:A lot of pressure everyone's coming. You know, when you're fighting in big arenas and people have paid their adorning money to come watch you and they're putting bets on you and and they expect you just to win. But you've got another man in front of you who also wants to win and wants it as desperately as you. You know it can change his life. It can change his life course, his destiny and everything else. So it's not a given. You've got to work, you know, as hard as possible in that fight to make sure your arm gets raised and you get declared a winner. So you build up the fight and you have training camps and you train as hard as possible to make sure that you are very well prepared, but ultimately you have to display it in 36 minutes. It just comes down to that 36 minutes, that 12 rounds. If you're not ready, then it doesn't matter about the next day or the next day or the day previously, it's about that day and if you don't turn up on that day then you know you're going to lose.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I used to wake up obsessed thinking about it. I used to every second what ticked by. I'd be going 10 to a dozen adrenaline pumping through my body and I used to get to the venue 4 or 5 hours before the fight and eat away at myself in change rooms, just but obviously fitting fit enough to get through it. But all the time I've just learned to try stay relaxed and and the way that I've done that is by, like I said, bits of meditation, bits of bits of mindfulness, kind of looking at the, the old situation from an outsider perspective, like telling myself that as a kid I would have loved, I'd have dreamt to be in the position that I am now, to be able, the position that I am now to be able to fight at the likes of Wembley and Ellen Road and Headland Stadium and headlines shows in Leeds Arena where tens of thousands of people are chanting your name.
Speaker 3:You kind of pull yourself out of your own situation and look from another set of shoes. You can see things a little bit differently Once you're encased in a whole bubble. Then it's like you don't know what's going around you. But sometimes you need to pull yourself out of the situation. That's what I'd start doing. And times when you start feeling a bit of pressure, you think you know what somebody else would love to be in my shoes. There would be a lot of little boys and girls who their dream would be, you know, josh Roynton or the female version of Josh Roynton.
Speaker 3:In this position, it's probably lads who've given their absolute everything to be here but have not been able to get there, not been good enough or not worked hard enough or whatever situation. They've not been able to do so, and that always just brings me back down. Or there's been other times in scenarios where I've been getting ready for fights, where you feel like the whole city is depending on you winning and like I can't do this. But then I've spoke to my pals and you know, listen, we're all proud of you, no matter what happens. You know what, thank you and tell you about what's going on in this city. Every bar's chanting your name and everyone's you know proud. That's made me feel a bit better now. I feel a bit more relaxed now, so you don't think it's up, so that's helped throughout the day.
Speaker 3:And then, whilst I'm in there in the change rooms, the people around me I don't have a massive entourage, I have a small circle. My old man's my main trainer. He still sometimes talks to me like I'm a bloody teenager, like I'm a third one the way I'm married, like just remember who you're speaking to here. Shut up, daft lad, listen, you're still my, you're still my. I talk to you however I want. But and an ego thing you think bloody hell, how dare he? But really it's not a bad thing. Sometimes you need people to bring you on a level, and I have pals who I went to school with, who still take the mick out of me and still talk to me on a level of, who don't leave my backside, and I think for my mindset it's a good balance. You don't want people to give you so much accolade that you're not ready for any bad to come in your life because they don't mind taking the piss and they don't mind giving me a bit of a stick, builds a thick skin, builds a bit of resilience.
Speaker 3:And I think a lot, especially when we talk about youth in this day and age, charlie, that a lot of youth don't have that resilience, they don't have that thick skin. I've I've been, I remember, listening to a podcast about the youth of in a business. Like, a lot of youth want to make an instant impact as soon as they walk into a job. And if they aren't making an impact during the first week or first month, they're like wanting to have a word or they're getting down about it, or wanting to hand in their resignation and go elsewhere because they don't think they're making a change. Where, bloody hell, it'd be bloody years and years before. People back in the day were like it's probably my old man's age and probably my age that you're making a difference, you know. So I think, um, having that bit of resilience there and bit of a thick skin has always helped and and made me relax a bit.
Speaker 3:And then there'll be a certain time when you know they might come in and say right, you're gonna go in 20 minutes and that's when for me, in the change rooms, to answer your question. That's when the horse blinkers get put on and I'll probably I'll do a bit, go through my bit of a warm up, but always around 5 minutes before we walk to the ring. I'll do something that I've always done and probably will do until I do officially hang them up. I go in the corner, I sit down, I put my head up my old training team they know I've done it for years, so they let me have my moment and sometimes I'll put my head up and look at everybody. Sometimes I'll keep my head down and sometimes I'll put my head up and look at everybody. Sometimes I'll keep my head down and sometimes I'll make eye contact with people. Sometimes I'll just look to close my eyes and all I do is just go through certain moments throughout life, my career, that it's taken to get to where I am.
Speaker 3:I think about certain setbacks and the ways that I've come through them and I think about what's to come later and that just centres me. It centres me a lot, and then after that I'm ready to go, I'm pumped on and, like I say, times when I'm walking backstage towards the, towards the entrances to the ring. You know, I know through experience, there's no point wasting the energy there getting so worked up. Let me get in the ring first. And you know one thing what I look and look on I can look on the last fight is maybe I should have took advantage of their opponent against Kikachi because all throughout fight week when I was seeing him he was banging his hands together and shadow boxing and I think it is wasting an injury, but it was just nervous an injury, but I was relaxed and cool because I've been in situations and scenarios before. So yeah, I think a lot of things of tools and tricks throughout the years of experience and knowing when to turn right at the last minute has helped me.
Speaker 1:Did you know that? I'd thought not boxed tie boxing yeah, tie boxing for Mike Tobin's gym.
Speaker 1:And do you know what I remember last time I was fit for my level but when I got in the ring and there were about 100 people around it I couldn't feel my arms. Do you know what I mean that nervous? So to have that, to be able to get get your mindset as you're walking out at Leeds Arena and you know the scenes there and walking out at Ellen Road. You know it's all that warm up, but the what I'm trying to get is this you know that focus of getting all that out, do you think that's what makes that difference between an elite sportsman and just someone that can't really?
Speaker 3:Because if you haven't got that mindset, yeah, I think I've just said it there In my last fight I think that again I sound like I'm being bitter and I don't want to take anything away from Anthony Kikachi, but I spoke to him actually after the fight. I think he knew as well that he didn't get Josh Warrington, who was switched on, and I think that's the fine line. He was switched on, he was ready for it and I wasn't. I'd say throughout life or throughout my career, my mindset's been my biggest attribute, because the reason being is I constantly believe I can get better, constant search for improvement, constantly want to be fitter, stronger, faster, do my footwork better, throw better combinations. So that wanting to constantly improve has been the thing that's got me to the level I am.
Speaker 3:And there's been moments in the fights when I've fully exerted myself and yet to a certain stage, we think I'm absolutely goosed here, I'm knackered and I've still exerted myself. And to a certain stage, we think I'm absolutely goosed here, I'm knackered and I've still got another 5 rounds to go. But then you don't realise how much the body can do in certain situations and lifting that barrier away from the mind, and all of a sudden you feel like you've got loads of energy. Your second wind has kicked in and you feel like you can go for another 12 rounds. It's like hold on. A second ago I was going back to the stool in between rounds and I couldn't breathe. All of a sudden I'm nice and relaxed and that lactic acid has somehow subsided from my body and I feel fresh as the daisy. Now I feel like I can do like I say to the mind.
Speaker 1:So if we were to hypothetically say I'm not asking you if you're going to fight again or whatever, but what would a typical training day for Josh Warrant be? Just so we can sort of see the scale of dedication, how long would you train for a last training camp?
Speaker 3:I mean I would stay in the gym, charlie. The reason being is again learning off other folk. As I was growing up, you kind of learn how not to do things. Don't get me wrong. I'd see some boxers and fighters and think, wow, I might copy what he's doing because that seems to be the right thing to do. But then seeing where other people have fallen at a certain hurdle, that's not the way to do it.
Speaker 3:Going out partying and celebrating after the fight All right, have your bits of accolade, let people pat you on the back, let people buy you a pint, but don't take piss. It's an hard sport and you know a lot of physicality gets put into the sport and a lot of people go into that sport and come out different. You know it takes a lot from the body and it's a short career. You know you can be winning and everybody can be licking your backside and you take a loss and that crowd can quickly disperse, just like anything, you know. So I was like right, don't do what he's doing. Don't do what he's doing. You know, live in the gym constantly, try to improve, just like I've been saying. So I'm always in the gym. But I say a camp if you want to say in brackets. For me is when the fight gets announced. That's when we schedule the training sessions. Up until then I'm training, all this training every day, just giving myself fit, giving myself a shower. But then camp comes in, when we start working on gate plans, we start getting sparring partners in, we go into a certain program of snc, so that normally entails five to six days a week training. It normally entails one to two sessions per day, normally consisting of, you know, one to two hours each session, no longer than that really, and then recovery sessions in between.
Speaker 3:Diet well, again, it's something that's just become part of my lifestyle. You, you know, you hire it, you eat, and I think I learned that quite on during experience. I'm getting ready for one fight. I had to lose quite a bit of weight in a short space of time and I boxed one very successful, and I went out. I must have spent about 70 or 80 pounds at Domino's Getting every pizza off the menu as cookies and all that stuff, and I felt absolutely diabolical after and you know, I couldn't go to the toilet for a week.
Speaker 3:I felt really sick, really tired, and then that was like a bit of a slap in the face Like that just shows you. You know you are what you eat. You've just eaten a load of shit in the space of 24 hours. What have you just done to your body? You've shrunk. You've shrunk your stomach. All of a sudden you've just crammed all this food in. Now you feel the fire. You feel tired and it's like, wow, right opener. You know, I used to go to the co-op and get a meal deal. All of a sudden just changed instead of getting a can of coke on my lunch, it changed to a bottle of water. I didn't realise the importance of this. When I die, I'll probably have a bottle of this at the side of me.
Speaker 3:I drink that much. It's like knowing in between fights, you know what. I don't feel more tired, but I also have more energy. Why is that? Well, because you're active, you're eating clean, you're hydrated. I don't. Normally.
Speaker 3:There were stages where I was getting headaches at work and stuff like that. Why I don't have them when I'm training? But I should have more headaches because I'm tired, I'm getting punched to the head, but not drinking as much as that. So all of a sudden it becomes he's not just drinking it during camps, he's drinking it all year round, you know 3, 6, 5, 7 days a week. So just the diet and stuff like that, it's a constant, but that falls into my camp as well. And then, as the fights get closer and closer, the intensity of sparring steps up. We're normally doing like 12 rounds of sparring. We'd normally do about 120 rounds, 140 rounds of sparring per camp to get ready for a certain opponent and then probably around 10 days, 10 days out from the fight, it starts to wind down, because then media and interviews and all that promoting the fight step up so with the diet because I think most people know I'm a bit of a food out there yeah, because it has an impact on it.
Speaker 1:Like you've said, there has an impact on everything. Is that part of your family life as well? Because what I'm sort of getting at is to hear from yourself young people listen to this. There's so much, just an arm's reach away, like a bottle of Fanta or a chocolate bar or some of these sweets. They're just list and, like you've said, there you're like. You know people see it as a treat and it's. It's just not, is it?
Speaker 3:it's just satisfying, it's a quick, it's quick dopamine, isn't it?
Speaker 1:and like yeah, that's what junk food yeah, but we, I mean, I've seen something this week and where a guy in america has said if that's, if that's the health food section in the shop, what's, what's everything else you know? I mean, and to hear it from yourself that you, you know, that you, you maintain that in between fights as well. Yeah, because I think there's been a sort of different age out where footballers you know, professional footballers used to drink and smoke straight after a game and stuff like that which you can't do, that on an elite level now, can you?
Speaker 3:no, no, no, no and yeah, as I say, our habits and lifestyle. You know Me and my wife, we live a clean life. I mean, some of my pals come round and look through my fridges say, bloody hell, you're not even in camp, what are you eating like this for? But it's just how we are, it's how we are and we wouldn't have it any different. And now we can see it with our girls, my twin daughters. They're six years old, but they turn to fluid in terms of water. They see the difference in how they feel, for instance, if they speak, stay with the grandparents, like you know, my wife's mom and dad, or my own, my old man's, you know. They come back and say we need something healthy. Tonight we've had a lot of rich food really. Yeah, and they're six years old. They can see the difference because, let's say, they've just eaten.
Speaker 3:What I eat and I'm not like a rabbit, you know, not every single night is is lettuce leaves and and broccoli. I haven't, you know like I like a fry up as much as anyone else. You know, I can have a kebab, but it's balance and and I kind of take it on an 80 20 scale. I remember speaking to a nutritionist years and years and years ago well, not years and years ago, a couple years ago actually a fella called James Moranan and he's not just one of a nutritionist who's done a six week course and all of a sudden he plasters himself over Instagram and says right, you need one of this, you need one of that. This guy was like he's graduated from university and he used to work with cancer patients in recovery, recovering and like a dietitian from there, so he's qualified and he's studied it years and years.
Speaker 3:Then he's moved on to sky cycling. So again, elite level sport. And you know he's had a look over my diet plans as far as I've got nailed on josh. He said you know what it is everyone really should eat for, he shouldn't have a diet. He's like just it has to be a lifestyle change. But you don't have to just eat. You know, like a rabbit, yeah, you can have your, your mcdonald's, but you don't have to just eat. You know, like a rabbit, yeah, you can have your McDonald's, but just don't make it every day.
Speaker 3:Don't look for that quick dopamine hit. You know, don't look for that quick fix because that's what it does you when you go on to a diet yeah, oh, I fucking love a cheeseburger. Yeah, of course, well done, because you can't have it. But then have two, three weeks of eating clean. Then go eat that cheeseburger and tell me how you feel after. Yeah, quickly, oh, I've missed this, oh, I've missed this. But then do two days of that consecutively, three days that. After the third day I guarantee you won't want to eat it for another six, six months because it like that's how it does to your body. It poisons your body. So yeah, like I say, our kids follow on to it. And some of my pals say your kids are eating bloody olives and avocados and that Some of them. You're tight to your kids, you're like they prefer it. They prefer it now.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we had David Stack on, didn't we? A mate of mine who works with Elite. He worked with Jack Bateson and Kel Brook, and you know as much about the food. Is that psychological thing? Because they were telling us how much research these companies do to get that, just to spike that attraction. You know what I mean. So it's brilliant that your young ones are not into them like the rest of the kids. You've got another one on the way, haven't you? I do? Yes, yeah, bit of pressure there then in terms of just another another person.
Speaker 3:Again, you like talk about these, you like pretty, like pressure and sometimes you can look at like things as though it's going to be an hard thing. But you know, again, there's something there. I mean, when people have a few, it's not, you're not, you're not the first one, so it's going to be hard. And they were like we planned on that, we wanted to have another child and like, so yeah, I have to focus on the, on the positives, you know what I mean. Like you can say it's going to be fucking hard work, but then all of a sudden, subconscious of that sat in your mind this next child comes along. It's hard work. You're telling yourself that when you look at your newborn, yeah, this is beautiful. But subconsciously thinking, but some causes, you're thinking it's hard work as well. We tell ourselves we can't wait.
Speaker 3:And like I said, I've told you earlier, just before I come here, my missus has not been too well today but like I've just got to look at the positive. But I tell her I know you don't feel good now, but you know Christmas time, in over seven weeks baby will be here and all that illness and sickness will, before you know it, we'll be holding our beautiful big boy in your arms and looking like positive. So you know what? Yeah, I do know that sleepless nights are coming. I do know that it's going to sit down on its top. Don't know, you're going to have to go leave the house and look at bloody push chair and a changing bag and this and other, but you know what?
Speaker 3:I'm looking forward to it and I feedback loop.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, yeah, and then I think in the bud before it gets there.
Speaker 3:Why is it? I don't know if it's just the British culture or culture in general, but like it does seem to be. Like we're always excited about things but there's always like oh, but this, and yeah, you've got to be. I think you've got to be aware of what could happen. But for way of what could happen, but I for me myself.
Speaker 1:I I was trying to look on the positives, you know like, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's quite sort of stoic, that isn't it? As well? You have that sort of outlook where we are here and more optimistic than optimistic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely if someone's listening to this and maybe because we're, you know mental health podcast. If someone's listening to this and they're listening, hang on, josh, what it is on that mental health podcast. If someone's listening to this and they're listening, hang on, josh Warnick is on that mental health podcast. We wanted to talk about focus and what's carried you to the elite level you are. Would you have any tips for the man in the street? This will go out in December, so we're thinking, like we mentioned earlier before we started recording, january is usually a time where new year, new life, new me have you any tips for people just to get over there, from a professional athlete to a man in the street, just to get going and just get over anything really?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's a big question for obviously a broad field, so I'll try to answer it best I can to wait as many people as I can, but I'd say things take time. Things take time and not every single day you get out of bed, whether you're going to school, whether you're going to college, university work. Not every day is going to be glamorous and I don't want to use the old Rocky Balboa Sunshine and Rainbows quote, but it is true to a certain extent. You know there is going to be times when you know things don't go your way and you might miss your bus, and then you know you haven't met your deadline and you know you haven't done your assignment properly or you fail that test. But it's part life and we have these ups and downs and what you have to do in them kind of scenarios is take a learning experience from it and sometimes you think, well, how the fucking hell can I learn from you? Know, maybe, if it fails your driving test, you can learn from where you went wrong there, but maybe, I don't know, you didn't get a job. Well, you can learn there. Break down a relationship. Well, where did it go wrong? What could I do differently? What could she do differently, or he doesn't know fully. You know, there's always ways you can learn from a certain scenario in a certain situation and unless, like I say, you've lost a family member, then you can. It's a time of grieving. That's the only situation where you can't really learn, but then you might learn from there that that's part of life, and then you may learn to appreciate that life is only short, so you're meant to do things and stay positive. So, yeah, it's time, and if you are pushing for something, just don't give up. It's not always going to happen overnight.
Speaker 3:Another scenario I play guitar and I've always wanted to do it and I never had any lessons. I was just watching bloody YouTube videos and I felt like I wouldn't get nowhere, but just constantly, constantly chipping away, chipping away got to a certain level and then that's me. I'm good. But then I wanted to learn how to do bar chords and I thought I can't do these, I've only got little hands. I'm making all kinds of excuses and then eventually it just started coming through. But that's only because I kept going at it. You know, it didn't happen overnight. I didn't wake up one day. Bloody hell, I can play like Jimi Hendrix now. No, it was just over time of like trial and error and frustration and, like I say, a lot of the youth these days want instant gratification, instant rewards and sometimes things that are worth knowing or worth getting at. They don't happen instantly, it takes time and if you want it bad enough, then you'll get there.
Speaker 1:One final question, unless you've got upset, would be do you think, tongue in cheek this, do you think a lot of your resilience has come from being a Leeds fan? Ups and downs. Ups and downs, mate. I've had 50 odd years of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think the first time I went down to Leroy was in the Premier League and my dad didn't take me down until I was about 10 years old or 2000,. 2001 era. So obviously at the time we were flying very high. You know, sponsored by bloody Nike and Strongmore, playstation 2 all over Ellen Road, and you know, nearly 40,000 people there with games in Champions League Wow, this is fantastic. And then you get a bit older, you're a teenager, and then you're listening to a radio getting relegated, and then turn him to my old man and saying what happens now? Dad, he went. Ah, don't worry, I've been watching him for years and I bounced straight back up you don't expect to be.
Speaker 3:You know paying for your own ticket years later and you're, and you're watching him go out with FA Cup to a bloody Eastern, and you know playing in front of a an half empty or three quarters of Epsilon Road and call Tuesday night and there's only 14,000, 15,000 and you've got to get your tickets. Like, where do I sit, love, there's tickets all over. So yeah, it's certainly built resilience over the years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there were two and a half thousand on a Wednesday night against Shrewsbury when I first went back in mid 80s and we were getting. So I think we'll wrap it up there, josh, unless you've anything to add no, I think.
Speaker 3:I think that's everything and thanks a lot for having me thank you for your positivity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's. That's amazing. Yeah, if people listen to positive people, I'm quite a positive person in reality. I just do too much from your road rage.
Speaker 1:Yes, we need to sort that out. We all get a bit of that.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know what I want? To just finish up with what I said as well. There's something about being surrounded by positive people and you know what, if you don't feel like you're surrounded by positive people or you're not getting positivity nearby, why don't you change your circle? Have a little look around you, you know. Know, if everyone around you's not doing too good or it's always talking, they're a bit of a mood zapper. Have a look around you, because you know, as humans and and what goes on in the universe.
Speaker 3:I don't know the full scientific bits about it, but you can feed off that energy. You can feed off that energy and and and you know being around positive people who are striving to do better themselves. You often see it on social media. Like you, you hang around with five people who do it into fitness. You'll be six. You hang around with five people who are into well-feeding and strive for business. You'll be six. And you hang around with five people who smoke. You'll be six. You'll be. You follow. You follow rabbits and we are creatures of rabbits, or, yeah, sometimes, if you, if you're not going through, it's a bad life and it's a little family circle brilliant, right.
Speaker 1:Thanks a lot for coming in, josh. Thanks for giving us your time. What are you going to do now, when I'm not texting you to come in and that's job done. I'll get back to the next one, cool right, thank you, thank you no problem, cheers, charlie seb cheers and if you'd like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to buy us a coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefox talkingcom, and look for the little cup. Thank you,
