White Fox Talking
Talk About Mental Health & Well-Being… Why Not? Mark ‘Charlie’ Valentine suffered life changing mental illness, before beginning a journey to recovery and wellness; the darkness of PTSD transformed by the light atop mountains and beyond. Mark is now joining forces with Seb Budniak, to make up the ‘White Fox Talking’ team. Through a series of Podcasts and Vlogs, ‘White Fox Talking’ will be bringing you a variety of guests, topics, and inspirational stories relating to improving mental well-being. Find your way back to you! Expect conversation, information, serious discussion and a healthy dose of Yorkshire humour!
White Fox Talking
E67: Padraic McDonagh - Loss, Resilience, and Community Create Champions
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What happens when the fighting spirit meets profound loss? Two-time British Thai Boxing Champion Padraic McDonagh takes us on a raw, unfiltered journey through his remarkable life—from discovering Thai boxing as a 12-year-old on a Leeds council estate to building a legacy that transforms lives through combat sports.
McDonagh's story pivots around his mentor Steve Adams, who spotted his talent immediately and became a father figure in his life. "Stick at this, you're going to be a champion," Steve told him after his first training session. Those words planted seeds of self-belief that flourished into British championships by age 16. But when Steve passed away suddenly in 2010, McDonagh's world collapsed, leading to a dark period of grief, anxiety, and excessive drinking.
The podcast doesn't shy away from mental health struggles. McDonagh speaks candidly about developing "death anxiety" and how counseling ultimately saved him: "Even after the first session I could breathe again." His honesty dismantles stereotypes about fighters and masculinity, showing that seeking help requires tremendous courage.
Today, McDonagh's Golden Team Boxing Gym stands as both memorial and mission—a 4,000 square foot space where champions train alongside 73-year-old charity boxers and troubled youth find direction. His work extends beyond the gym into local primary schools, where he shows children from disadvantaged backgrounds that they too can achieve greatness: "I'm just from an Irish family in the middle of Seacroft and you can do exactly the same."
The conversation illuminates how combat sports naturally incorporate the "five pillars of mental health"—exercise, nutrition, sleep, community, and self-care—creating an environment where healing happens through discipline and connection. For anyone battling their own demons or looking to make a difference in their community, McDonagh's journey offers powerful proof that our deepest wounds can become our greatest purpose.
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Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast. I'm C or M, am I today? What are we going by initials? Yeah, go with C or M. I'm going to go with Charlie, so I'll go with C. So I'm Mark Charlie Valentine, and to the side of me is Seb.
Speaker 2:S.
Speaker 1:S, and there is a reason for that. You will find out.
Speaker 3:How about you, Seb? Yeah, just battling a cold, but it doesn't come across that way on the recording.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? I'm not too bothered about recording. I'm more bothered about it coming sideways and passing to me. That way, you would have been confined to barracks, wouldn't you a couple of years ago? Yeah, you'd have been set. You know, big X on your door. No, you're allowed to spread anything you want now. No, it's fine. Yeah, thank you for your hard work in designing the event T-shirts for the Sheffield Half Marathon we've got coming up. They look good, don't they? They look great, yeah, and whether they look great on me and whether they look great on me when I'm going to be shredding. I'm going to have to shred for marathon, just so I can get into the T-shirt. So, yeah, that's going on in. This might be out. Will this be out then? Yeah, I think so. All right, you can sponsor us. Go fund me. White Fox Talking yeah, and we are raising funds just so we can get on with this, really, because we keep spending money on technology and things to make us better. So welcome to the podcast. Horik Madonna McDonough.
Speaker 2:McDonough, mcdonough.
Speaker 1:That's definitely right. The White Fox Talking Podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact, so do you want to call in P, because everyone calls you P. Just call me P, I'll make your lives easier, I'm all right, no problem. I have got Irish ancestry, but I just can't speak English.
Speaker 2:We might be related, charlie, possibly, possibly.
Speaker 1:Well, possibly everybody is, isn't it, I know. So could you give the listeners and possible viewers a brief introduction about yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, First of all, thanks for having me on fellas. It's a cracking set-up. I'm really impressed with the set-up here and everything. I make them feel welcome set up here and everything and make him feel welcome. My name's Paul Rick McDonagh. Everyone calls me P. I'm the owner of Golden Team in Leeds, the Golden Team Boxing Gym, and I'm former two-time British Thai Boxing Champion.
Speaker 1:Excellent, thank you. So just on that note, I would Can I say hello to somebody who's put this together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course. So that's. I don't know if you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shout out to Stu Littlewood. So I worked outdoors for a long time with Stu. He would have been a good fighter, wouldn't he, if he had a longer reach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I know and some platforms on.
Speaker 1:He's a good lad. So, stu, aim to learn yeah, aim to learn work with the specialised, working with people, getting them long-term employed, getting them back into work. I specialised once when I caught a nasty headbutt in a nightclub. I said to Stu, has my nose broke? I could see my nose out of my eye there. And do you know what? He straightened it on the door at space and one other doorman nearly threw up. He just went, put your head there and I put my nose and he just went and then move your head. It just felt like a pipe cleaner.
Speaker 1:It was actually straighter than it was before, so big than he won before. So big ups to Stu for that. He's probably missed his vocation.
Speaker 2:Well, he's done a lot for me as Stu, but he's never had to stray in my nose.
Speaker 1:The old defenceman. Well, we're in Edbutt, weren't we? You can't get out of the way of them From behind as well. You know what I mean Big red passports, anyway. Right, let's get on to this more than Thai boxing, and we're not just talking about that. Hopefully we'll talk about what it does. So can you give us a bit of background, because it's quite entertaining to watch your little video.
Speaker 2:So obviously I'm born on a council estate in Leeds Seacroft as you know, it's not the poshest of areas, but it was home. And around the age of 12, I started Thai boxing. I got into Thai boxing, absolutely loved it, met a guy called Steve Adams who actually went to school with my dad. He was living with him at the time because he'd been chucked out by his bird, so I spent a lot of time with him just there. He used to bring me down to the gym and at about 12-13 years old I walked into a little garage gym, the golden team gym.
Speaker 2:I actually remember walking in and there were kids class on and I fucking tripped over the stairs and nearly fell over and everyone started laughing at me and I thought this isn't a good start. Do you know what I mean? But I did the kids' class and then he says to me oh, stay and do the adults' class. And I did the adults' class and I was absolutely knackered and I mean you know, when you're feeling sick, don't ask me to do this sparring here. He asked me to spar, so I got in and I did a bit of sparring and my first fondest memory of Steve is I got out of the boxing ring and he put his hands on me and he says stick at this, you're going to be a champion. So that's my first memories of Steve, really.
Speaker 3:So you must have seen something in you, because if he asked you to move straight away from the children's class, to the adults class.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've seen something in this straight away yeah, man, because like my family's always been into boxing I've got a big irish family and you know I was brought up around boxing I did a little bit of kickboxing and then, yeah, just sort of like I just took to it. You know, like I asked her what it was. Just it were, it's just, I just loved it from the off. And then I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know if I'd have been so much I want to go back straight away if I hadn't had that moment. It were a moment of self-belief straight away. Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Did you do any other sort of sports at that time? Because it's still quite young, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, young, yeah, I played a lot of football at the time. Pretty good footballer played at like Sao Paulo School of Excellence, leeds Academy, stuff like that on and off, and I got fluid in my hip like inflammation and it sort of like put me out for a little bit. And that's when I just sort of turned over and started the Thai boxing.
Speaker 1:What something a little bit gentler. Yeah yeah, yeah, somewhat steady away, Dear me. I'm just thinking about injuries I picked up while I was Thai boxing even just training, I know.
Speaker 2:So how was education at that time? It was all right. I went to Our Lady of Good Counsel Primary School in Seacroft and I went to Corpus Christi High School in Alton Moor and in about two quality estates it was all right. It was all right. I've not got education, I've no GCSEs or anything like that. A bit dozy at times, but yeah, I was sort of like a bit of a class clown, like messing about, not a troublemaker, I just like making people laugh. You know what I mean and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And then in year 10, I got an opportunity to fight a boxer. He was won a world title. Now he used to train under Freddie Roach called Scott Quigg, famous boxer from Bury, and I got expelled from school so I could train for that fight. So I sort of went from one extreme to the other. So it was a junior British title fight. So it was like I was just sort of going nowhere of education. I wasn't a bad kid but if it didn't intrigue me I couldn't excel at it. Do you know what I mean? Something had to intrigue me for me to excel at it, and Thai boxing did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that sort of answered where I was going, so you've ruined my next question, which was Something about that. Charlie, cut me off. Yeah, put me in the corner.
Speaker 2:Do you want to change seats?
Speaker 1:No, but my next question would have been if you hadn't got into Thai boxing and this sort of combat sport, where would you have gone through education, do you think? Or was that never a option really?
Speaker 2:Not really, because I started teaching actually started holding pads and teaching about 14, and I had my first fight as a trainer at 16. So I was training people as I was learning the trade myself. I remember I think it was in year nine or something like that we had to get an apprenticeship scheme and I remember getting yellow pages out with my grandmas. I remember phoning that guy and you're going out and pressing it and I rang everyone. No one had turned me on. Do you know what I mean? So I thought that's out of window. And my two uncles at the time had a block paving and they took me to work for him for one day and I just wheelbarrowed bricks to him all day and I thought when I left, I'm not fucking doing this again. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Not even for a training element.
Speaker 2:No, no, I did enough of that on a night.
Speaker 1:So at that time family so we mentioned before, come on your mum, yeah, so your grandmother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, really good family, Got a great mother, mother, my great father. But I actually lived with my grandma from I don't know, probably age of nine or something like that. It was just like I was the eldest of the generation. My mum lived here, my grandma lived at top of the road which we called my ma, loads of cousins and stuff like it, but it was just like the soul of where you could go. Don't matter what happened, she'd understand, you'd be there and I just lived there and it all throughout, like my fighting career. I'd get up on a morning, my breakfast, you know my vitamins, everything would be in place. I'd get out early and I'd go for a run. It'd be there. She was like probably the closest thing in my life really so at that time, how often would you be training?
Speaker 1:I'm trying to get another dedication and help you know, because to make a champion we've had just one. It's just that spark in it. It's either, you know, you could have the I think you said on that Golden Team Legacy video that I watched. You know, if you haven't got it in, if you haven't got the heart there, then there's not that point. But you could have the skill and you could have the skill and the mind for it. But if you haven't got the heart, which way did you approach it?
Speaker 2:Do you think it? All the skill set in the world like you can be unbelievable. You can have a good iq, can have everything, but under the lights. Actually, on the night, when you're in the arena, you know when there's blood, sweat and tears. If you've got no under there, then you know skill set and everything don't matter. It's about the person who wants it the most. But at that time about 14, 15, 16 I'm in high school I'd get up on a morning, I'd run and then I'd go to school till three o'clock and then I'd be in gym for three hours with Steve teaching and then training myself. You know five, six days a week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's very similar when we're joshing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And it's locals, your mates and stuff, and having a few smokes and a bottle of cider on the night. You're going training and that's the. That's what I was doing. I wasn't asked about all that then. Do you know what I mean? Some days I'd run to school, get changed and in toilets do you know what I mean? But I spray on pits fucking stunk. None of the birds fancy me because of it. You know what I mean, just straight in. But yeah, just very dedicated from a young age.
Speaker 1:So when did you win your first British title?
Speaker 2:Won the first British title at 16 years old in Oldham yeah.
Speaker 1:That's pretty young, isn't?
Speaker 2:it yeah, yeah, pretty young.
Speaker 1:In fact it's Oldham where I think I'd told my cartage. Yeah, I was just thinking you were saying yeah, yeah, because I fought a kid from Golden Team in 2002. Yeah, from Golden Team in 2002. Yeah, yeah. And as we were saying then after that, it wasn't you, it wasn't Were you on a just ball then yeah, yeah, just come out alone. No, but I'd only clear up. We were talking. It's like I think I had the heart, but I didn't have nothing else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a bad thing that, no, no, it carried me through a bit, but that's what led once I got that injury. I didn't have that distraction to steer me, which we're going to get on to in a little bit about yourself. So 16's young, isn't it Very young? Yeah, what guy were you fighting?
Speaker 2:At the time, probably about 20, I think at the time, yeah, like I won that one at 16, then I won the second one at 18, and that guy he'd won a couple of European titles a lot more experience than me. But in Thai boxing you take the shin pads off and you know full Thai rules from in Thailand. They're doing it as kids. Do you know what I mean Over here, 15, 16. I mean, I remember going to Finland when I was 16. So they flew me out there and I fought a guy called Antonio Jaime and at the time he was undefeated. And I just remember walking in, didn't have an air on my chest, didn't have all this geyser, big Finnish geyser fucking beard, big, rough looking, two kids with him. I says, oh, am I fighting Stevie Gozzy over there? What the fuck am I doing here? But it was a great experience on billboards and that and I got the win. So yeah, it put me in good stead.
Speaker 1:It's like when you're stood on a door and someone gets out of a taxi and you think, oh God, I've got to say hello to this guy, you know what I mean. Yeah, careful of me, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm just off for a piss mate Clocking off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so can we sort of move on and we'll go into it as deeply or not as deeply as you want about Steve, of course.
Speaker 2:Because that had a massive impact on your life. Yeah, and if you do, you want to describe what happened and when it when it was, etc. Yeah, of course. So a couple of months prior, with me and steve would train all the time and we'd be training and he would really fit, six foot six, lean, tall, you know fit strong guy. And then he'd just have to keep stop training like I'd do a couple of rounds and panting for air, you know, really really excessively tight, taking breath, and then some days he'd be all right, some days he won't. I remember went to hospital with him one day and I checked him over everything working, all that, blah, blah, blah and it kept happening. Anyways, the week, the week before, I remember being sat down, he said something to me about about his chest and something like that, and he's come out with something I don't think I'll be here long. I hadn't actually told with something I don't think I'll be here long. I hadn't actually told anyone this. He says I don't think I'll be here long and I just I sort of swerved it. Do you know what I mean? I didn't know what he meant. It was really weird. It was like you knew something was coming. It was really mysterious.
Speaker 2:So the morning of the incident I got a phone call, fought for me about four times, got goosebumps and his friend rang me. He says he's killed himself. He's hung himself in a barn, just had a little girl. So I rang Steve. I went well, guess what? He goes fucking. He's killed himself. I can't believe it. I don't know what was going on in his head or you know stuff like that. He went fuck. You know he goes. He just had a little girl. Steve had just had a little girl at the time and I took two fighters to Batley Frontier to get them weighed in Paul's back in the gym Outside the gym.
Speaker 2:He's laid there. He's dead. So he's not breathing. He's drip white. Everyone's around him trying to resuscitate him. Stuff like that Drip white, you know things going out of his mouth An awful sight. Rang the ambulance. The ambulance took a long time. I'm not saying anything about the system or anything like that, but you know they're fantastic people, but on that occasion it took quite a long time. So, yeah, I followed him to hospital. There were only me there. He gets to hospital because he lived from Pillow to Post. I mean they used to call me Binliner P, because I was always here and there anyway, but he was even worse. He'd have his music in his trainers and that would infuse on him. He wasn't arsed and yeah, so I couldn't find his address, so a bit of a problem. Anyway, I sat in this room room smaller than this and the girl walked in. It looked like it took a clock of two minutes past two, 2010. They pronounced him dead November 20th, so yeah, coming up 15,.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you just said you had a cool something saying if you don't mind, how does that make you feel talking now, I don't want to put you on the spot. You don't have to answer if you don't want.
Speaker 2:I want I want to talk about it. I still think about him and dream about him and stuff like that. And, um, I have a lot of good memories and sometimes I wonder how certain situations that have gone in my life if he'd still been here. He guided me and mentored me in a lot of good ways and yeah, I just, I don't know, it feels like a just like a still, like a bit of a tight pain in my chest, you know, like a still a missing year and stuff. Um, I know I'll be looking down proud of what I've done and stuff like that, but at the time when it happened it were the darkest, darkest times of my life. Like people think they know about losing someone. Until you've lost someone, like that we've spent every day of life, we're till 13,.
Speaker 2:People try to give me good advice. I took advice, I went to counselling and I got bad on drink and stuff like that. I was stick thin. I was trying to run a business, I was trying to train fighters and Ed was just all over the place. Some days I'd go to the bottom of my garden in my moors and just think what am I doing here? I my mouth and just think, what am I doing here? I couldn't get my head round it.
Speaker 1:I remember it clearly, to be fair, because I was working outdoors at the time and I knew a lot of people like Stu Other names that I won't mention, just in case Constabulary come knocking thinking you know that person Big up to them lads yeah, and it were a big effect, weren't it? And it was a shot because he was a fit lad, yeah, he was, and stuff like that. So I mean for yourself. And then what you've just described with sort of drink going out partying.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's very similar to what you know, I don't want to keep going over my stuff, but what I did and it's a distraction, it's, I think you said on that, on the legacy, the short film about it being the wrong path or something like that. But I think, do you think you had access to advice at that time, or being being the person one, the position you are, would you, did you were you? Did you go to counseling? Did you ask for that? Did you go down? How long did the drinking last? Basically, before you saw that?
Speaker 2:it was. I had a lot of pressure, so it was a pressure as well. So I was in the gym the next week. I didn't have time to grieve, even though I've had a lot of good people around me over the years and and friends and stuff that I've got a lot of people that they said would help, and they jumped on his passing away and I don't mean it in a bad sense well, nowhere to be seen.
Speaker 2:A week later I did it all on my own. You know, I at the time a guy called gad's fish. He helped me a lot, a lot on it and I did have good people around me. But people's it's like someone goes to prison for a long time. The start people go and see him. They go and see him the longer. The years got on the door and it were a fast period of time that that happened with the gym. So I had my head was all over and when I was drinking it was just blanking it out for the time being, but then it comes more regular do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:and then it's just like a vicious roller coaster yeah, I mean, I think we mentioned a lot of times here the escape, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, you, you fill in with the same trap I won't, like you, fill in the same trap my mate shares in jameson went through the roof with me yeah, a bit more of a disarray.
Speaker 2:No man really, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you're a bit more sophisticated. I do, sir, with a little finger up. Mate, if it's not pissing it down, we're not getting whiskey. That's the third slur, isn't it? Yeah, oh, they used to say that. But yeah, them distractions and I think, like you know, you could people around when someone passes or there's an incident like that. But yeah, I mean I might see it from a different view now because mine, my incident were a long time ago. Yeah, but I think sometimes people say things but then they can't face them the self. Yeah, and I had a lot. I had a lot of problems because of the incident I were involved with over in istanbul and it were very famous, you know. I mean it were like like we're all over news and stuff but then it were like well, I couldn't talk about it.
Speaker 1:I couldn't talk to anyone about it because, because I'm supposed to be one of the lads and stuff like that, and you don't want to come out and listen. I'm struggling with this because at my time it was like one of them. But you know, we don't really talk about mental that old school generation.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you feel about thanks for that, yeah, I don't know how to say no, but I don't know how you feel about it, charlie, as well. But like some people would give advice, which is nice because they try to be friendly, but they give advice not really knowing about how you actually was feeling, like I listen, I've got open ears to everybody or say like things might got bad on the drink or we're missing the gym and stuff like that, them saying, oh, you know you can eat, so it's like this, and that you don't have a fucking clue. What's going through my mind at this time? You really don't. It's the darkest hours and what I've seen over the years. Certain people I spoke to and stuff like that. Slowly, slowly, they've lost people and they know what grieving feels like now and their mindset, when I've talked to them, is totally different. They're needing help, they're needing this, they're needing that, though one one time in the gym got really anxious all the time, like everything were all right. Obviously I was grieving, but everything in my life were actually all right, apart from me grieving and I just I couldn't. I've been to breathe all the time, drinking loads of water. It's just something with me.
Speaker 2:I didn't train for about six months because I thought I was going, I was going to happen to me. So this one time I was on the sofa and like everything in the room turned yellow. It was so weird you like simpsons characters. Straight away I thought someone with my brain here started googling shit and stuff like, and I was like I think there's someone with my brain, I don't know what's going on. And then I went to this counsellor. I only had about seven sessions with this counsellor and what people.
Speaker 2:I honestly think private one-to-one counselling with top people works. It worked for me at that time and I went in and it was like a lead balloon, a lead weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Do you know, like even after the first session I could breathe again and I had a thing called death anxiety, which I, because I spent every day with this man. I was seeing stuff. I was seeing it happen to footballers, I was seeing it happen to rugby players. It were all over subconsciously and it was in my face all the time. I couldn't watch out about like that. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:I mean you've just said that sort of it nailed on head for me and that's, or with something you said, and that it worked for you. You know, and I think we wouldn't be sat here myself instead of talking about things like this claim to be expert. I'm an expert in my PTSD and I made a bit of a shit job of it. Or other people may say I made a bit of a shit job of it, but I might not have been here if it had gone down a different path. But it's all that individuality in it and what one person. So it's great for someone like yourself to come in. As you know, two-time British champion Must be reasonable, then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, and a guy and talk about. You know it worked for you when going to counselling Because I still think at this moment in time, this men's thing and women, you know what I mean it's that reluctance to go and speak to someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah 100% and like it was like everybody's so different, like how people work. Like I was speaking to someone once and um, it was when I was quite bad with drinking and stuff like that at the time like like really really fucking bad not going out and having a couple on a weekend, having a few beers with me I mean drinking heavily and they'd been in a couple of accidents and stuff. And and he says, well, look what's happened to me and you know I don't hit the bottle and stuff. And I thought we're different. That's not how I work. You know, you might be stronger than me, maybe, I don't know. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:you're stronger than me and I'll accept that, but people are just so different yeah, I mean, we had that conversation before about you know, can we say this for all? We can cut out if you don't like, about about not being a big gambler, but that is, that's some, but someone else might like that.
Speaker 2:Mate, I've obviously got. I've had big flaws and vices, let's say, but gambling, I'm not arse-way. If I had gambling, fucking hell I'd have a job locked. They'd all left me.
Speaker 1:But so you've just said something there and I'm picking up on the word like vices, and this is what I think that's a societal opinion, that we've got these vices. But are the vices all coping strategies at that time? Yeah, do you know what I mean? They are. I'm not trying to pick that out of what you said, I'm just thinking of you.
Speaker 2:That's the nail on the head for me, Charlie Perfect.
Speaker 1:Because if you didn't have them distractions, coping strategies which society might not see are healthy're not grateful as bodily and someone, someone who's been you know you've obviously dedicated to training to get reach where you've, where you've been, so you know what's going on. Yeah, I think I went from 73 kilos to 106, wow. So I fought 103 and then wrote my knee off and like four years later we're 106 kilos. Because I couldn't run. And the thing is at the at the time, because I'd come back, I'd been diagnosed with PTSD, I'd had all my counselling, I was still having flashbacks, I was drinking, but because I'd been, I was training with Darren Rhodes at the time. Yeah, and I'm down at Berm and I was training at Berm and Toffs and Witobing and that.
Speaker 1:And then once I I broke my knee off so I didn't need this operation. And that were it. We're like well, what do I do now? I haven't got that mindset to go out for a run and we're like can yeah?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. A hundred percent, it's just easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, yeah, but it's like taking away something. So you know, people can be addicted, has a few beers or they're quite unhealthy. If you didn't have them beers, you think it could have been worse. I know it could have been for me, of course, so it might not be sat here now, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm not defending alcohol, by the way no, and and this is what you see so much stuff on social media now, like one minute someone's a party animal, next minute they're doing, you know, walks and that's fantastic, but but you'll slowly see these people slip up and down with it, do you know? I mean, and that's life, that's life. It's like you say there, you know, at the time, was it getting you through what you needed to get through? Was it? What do we know?
Speaker 2:Do we all have to think about the same thing about you know, sobriety is great and all that. Do we have to think about the same thing about? Sobriety is great and all that? Do we have to think about all that? Or can you live a nice, healthy, balanced lifestyle, how you want to live? Because I see a lot of false people on social media at the moment that are jumping on the bandwagon and wanting to have this. Oh, I'm this free, I'm turning this diet, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and I speak to them and they're probably the most unhappiest people I fucking know personally when you see them on a one-on-one scale.
Speaker 3:Whatever you see on social media, people just do it for clicks. Yeah, they want the clicks, they want viewers. So I'm not saying everyone is fake, but a lot of people do fake things, don't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, of course, and it's just for that. But they're not happy. One thing I'll say today is I'm here, hand on heart, personally, I will be totally honest and I just am who I am right. I love my gym. I'm married now. I love my wife. I've got a stepdaughter. My family's great. She's a fantastic woman. She's done a lot and I'm in a good place. I eat when I'm hungry, I drink when I'm dry, I'm happy with people, I treat people well and that's just me. That's just who I am. I don't pretend to be a fucking big Thai boxing hard man or all like that. You know I want to be recognised as one of the best trainers in the world, but I just am who I am. And we mentioned Stu and I watched. Stu's taught me a lot about business and he's taught me a lot about certain things in life and stuff like that. But Stu's just a normal down-to-earth person and what that man's achieved and people don't know about it's ridiculous. I've got goosebumps of him thinking about how he's done his business. It's unreal.
Speaker 1:He should get a job in plastic surgery. It weighs straight to my nose.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Whatever place before, it's a wrong job. No, bless him, he's a good lad just to what you said there, pete.
Speaker 3:I guess people are always trying to chase perfection, aren't they? Yeah? And the sooner you realise that there's nothing there as perfection, yeah, that you are just who you are, and when you accept yourself of being the best you can, yeah, then you actually hit perfection of being the best you can, then you actually hit veteran 100%, but it's your own veteran.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's you individually. Don't chase what everyone else is doing, because it might be good for a while, but then it'll hit you. It's not really me, do you know what I mean? It'll hit you. What am I doing this for? Am I doing it for a mate that wants to be like that? Am I doing it to be in the group at the time? Just, it's only over the past probably year or so that I've actually thought you know what, fuck it? I am, who I am. You think this of me. I think that of me. I've been good to a lot of people over the years, not that I want it back, and then, when it comes to that circle, it don't really happen. I'm not arsehole, you know. If you like me, that's fair enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I mean my sort of thing in that was I was always seeking validation. That's what I would do, Seeking validation whether it was because of the incident and I had this massive sort of guilt complex. Yeah, you know what I mean, because I tried my best and I wasn't good enough. That's the way I used to see it. Yeah, and then I think we've talked about having the CMDR and it's like, well, if you weren't to try, no one tried. So and that's why, you know, I'm sort of I'm not happy is not the right word but sort of content with that. I tried my best, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But it took me years to do that and because I've been trying to validate myself against all these other people in another way, which will come out soon, because there's a complaint going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the one.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so can I ask you going back to the train well, going, so you're in a lot better place and dealing with it now, because obviously, if you've gone in as a 12-year-old and you started Thai boxing at 12-year-old and it's constantly around you so that it's non-stop, you're doing that, so obviously there's these reminders, isn't there? Yeah?
Speaker 2:and because it's like this moment, like a god to me. Do you know what I mean? Like you were, just like. I went to thailand and I fought in world championships, I got a bronze medal, and they were just like. There were people training. I'd only had three or four fights at the time. I got selected from my country. I fought there and, just like, sat me down one day and had some food, sat and said, listen, you're the best fighter, you can do this, you're capable of this, you can do that. And if he'd have told me I'm getting Mike Tyson, I'd have jumped in, I wouldn't have bothered.
Speaker 2:And that's the bond, the fighter trainer bond that I try to build into my fighters. Now. That's what you need. You need a super bond. You need to understand the character and what I'm about and this is what I know people. I see people every day. I have three, four hundred people coming in and out of the gym, fighters, all different walks of life. I understand how people work. I understand the situation of. I've got certain fighters where I don't bollock them, I don't shout at them, I don't kick off. They'll know when stuff's wrong. But they need to be relaxed and controlled and understand that I'm here to help them through this situation, or if they're in the ring of the hurt. I know how to deal with that person, where some people just train them.
Speaker 1:All the same, they're not understanding what they're like so that's like where I'd look at it would be. You know, with the mountain stuff, differences between I never say that I'm an instructor, yeah, which I'm not anyway now, but now, yeah, but instructing people, but I'll give people coaching, yeah, and if you know, if a lot of group of six and one of them doesn't, because I've had people that don't can't really understand maps and they can't see it different because of different ways and you're an divergence and stuff and people dislike something You've got to. For me to be properly with them, I need to be able to change my, because I'm getting paid. They're paying me, yeah, of course you know what I mean. Of course, that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's it Totally agree.
Speaker 1:So how does it make you feel now when you're producing these Great? Yeah, I've got a smile on my face.
Speaker 2:I've been training lads since I was 16. I've had fighting MMA and now bare knuckle trained quite a few champions in a bare knuckle game which is getting big.
Speaker 1:There's only licensed. One is in West York, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Do you know what? America's got hold of it so it's all televised. On the 26th of April I have my fighter, the six time world champion, Jimmy Sweeney. He's fighting on a show with BKFC where it's Conor McGregor's event in front of thousands and 1,000 people. It's going to be televised. So, yeah, we're really hoping to take over that and then go to America and become worldwide.
Speaker 1:We're almost like a plug that we didn't know. I expect that, don't we? Boom, there you go. I'll put a five-minute cater for that one. Copy, alex Five-minute cater for that one. So the reason that Stu got? Because I've known you about and then I'd seen you down at the gym when we were filming that experimental psychedelics through electronics, wasn't it really? Yeah, amazing, brilliant, wasn't it? Need to get Gavin back on. But the reason that he rang me and said listen, I think pee would be a good idea for your podcast was because of stuff you're doing with schools. Yeah, and what's the? Where's the idea? What's the background, what's the sort of idea? Yeah, where did that idea come from? And what happens?
Speaker 2:So my second cousin, lizzie McDonough. She is actually a head teacher at a school. I've done stuff with schools before you know, kids that have behavioral issues I won't say bad kids, do you know? I mean I've got behavioral issues, um, kids with autism, and I actually have a girl who's blind that boxes with me and she's unbelievable, it's, it's madness. I'll have to show you. But yeah, she got me down because we had a chat about doing something together and getting us all involved, because this school that I go to in Huntslet, these children don't believe in themselves and they don't think they're good enough to do what they want to do. She's open-minded, is Lizzie. They don't think they're good enough in life and the families are like that, so it's a bit of a rollercoaster for them.
Speaker 2:It's a little bit of a thing that's going on throughout the communities and and we went in I explained about what I'd done. I took four or five of my fighters down, did some demos and it would just blow up. It was just amazing. These kids eyes were blown up. They're asking us questions, we're getting up doing demonstrations and some of these kids might not get the education they're wanting to strive to. I'm not saying they won't. They can be whatever they want to be. But what I'm trying to say is there's different avenues as well from just going down the street. Or you go to primary school, you go to high school, you get a job, you get married, you buy a dog. Do you know what I mean? It's one of them. It's like the people have got this thought in life. That's how it has to work that's how we've been programmed yeah, that's how we've been programmed.
Speaker 2:And I says, well, I says you might be next Olympic gold medalist, you might be an astronaut, you might be an electrician, you're going to be this, you're going to be that. It doesn't have to go black and white like that. So we're trying to, which is good for the mental state. Self-belief, knowing that look, I've got a gym there, 4,000 square foot gym with two boxing rings. I've won two British titles. I've fought up and down the world. I've met some of the biggest names in the world and I'm just from an Irish family in the middle of Seacroft and you can do exactly the same.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying I'm the be-all and end-all. People have achieved miles more than me, but I've done. I don't really talk about this like myself. You know what I mean. But speaking to these kids, I firmly believe that I've done what they can do and more no-transcript. That's exactly it. Self-belief Do you know what I mean? And then, straight away, they all wrote letters to me about what I'm going to be. I'm going to go back to it. I want to be an actor. I want to be a boxer, I want to be on a film, I want to be a gymnast and I've got proof in the pudding. They were brilliant.
Speaker 1:I mean, you might notice, will say it again and time and time again, you know, and this programming thing of if you're not getting them grades, them people on the sides, you're not worth a call and if you're coming from these estates then you're not getting them opportunities. Yeah, so you mentioned there with what sort of ages are there?
Speaker 2:We're primary school, so like I think like six to 12, something like that.
Speaker 1:So how much of their do you and you might not know this how much of their sort of curriculum surrounds exercise and wellbeing? Do you know?
Speaker 2:hardly, hardly, none. Do you know what I mean? Like they've got play time, I says have you got a football? Are we working on it?
Speaker 1:yeah, see, we're now back in day. We're working on it. Have you seen, kez?
Speaker 2:Get off at GoPo, so you think you're all at Billy Brim.
Speaker 1:no, seb's not. Seb's from German Heritage. No, I'm not Seb, it's a classic mate. Yeah, I'll get the film for you, seb, but I'm from that area, you know, with baggy shorts. But if you turned up for PE and you didn't have.
Speaker 2:You didn't have your shorts you wore the Charlie shorts, my football boots. Get it lost property, I'm not joking. At the time I was about a size 200, a pair of size 9 Gilberts. On that were rugby boots.
Speaker 1:Every time I kicked ball fio fio, but that's what it was. They don't do that now, do they? No, no, and there's all this. So that lost property were classy you could get some right cover in there if at the very risk of wear and we're jumping off at school into snow, snow drifts and stuff like that, and that seems to have gone mate, it's mad we had Seacroft sent around for most trolleys there'd be about three or four of us.
Speaker 2:We'd get a trolley and all four of us would get in the trolley and go down to Illinois and see who could break a bone.
Speaker 1:You know you don't get that Seacross, so you've got that response there. First of all, are you going to keep on with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're working hard on a certain group of individuals to get into schools and hopefully make it blow up. I think the boxing and the street sense, common sense, street-wise boxing education, they're going to get a balance of what life's about. You know, if it's just everyone needs maths, english, science, whatever, but if it's just that all the time they can't talk to no one, do you know what I mean? They can't have a conversation, do they? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? They can't hold their own in a situation that they become scared and not cowardly, but look after themselves in this day and age.
Speaker 1:It's also that community. I mean, this is my opinion, but that sort of thing of communicating with people in different environments than in classrooms and on a screen, isn't it? And looking at watching TikTok and shit like that.
Speaker 2:You see kids as well on iPads and stuff like that, and now we're in, they just turn bent on you. They're fucking loopy. Alice is young and she's funny. She's a good lass, she's great. But she's on iPad for so long that'll be it. There'll be a massive ball in bedroom when she tries to take it off her. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:There's something happening with it yeah, it's that dopamine, that's the one. So and you mentioned exercise there, exercise being one of the. In fact, there's a few things going on there because you've got exercise. That's one of the five pillars of mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And sometimes I talk to people about the five pillars, which I'll probably forget one now Nutrition, exercise, sleep, community self-care. Yeah, and when you talk to people about them, I think it just shows sort of not a lack of awareness but a lack of what's the information that's being provided, Because Not a lack of awareness but a lack of what's the information that's being provided, Because if you're not practising them five at some level, then you're not even reaching basic, looking after yourself and from there they're not the cure, they're the basic.
Speaker 2:That's the baseline. Like I said, I'll be straight with you. That's the first time I've heard them five like that. When you think that you get them things right.
Speaker 1:Right, you've got a good, costly life. Well, this is something. But, like, I suppose, if, when this podcast goes out, yeah, there'll be people from your gym listening to it, hopefully, yeah, of course. But then if you want to be a success in any sport, then you've got to exercise, you've got to trade, you've got to get your nutrition right, you've got to, you've got to get your sleep right. Community will come through the gym, yeah, yeah. And then what were the ones? Self-care, self-care and self-care, you know, I think. Well, josh talked about it, didn't he? And he mentioned his meditation practice, which he'd mentioned. He didn't even realise that's what we were doing, really. Yeah, he started doing it because he felt himself calmed down. Yeah, so at felt himself calmed down, yeah, so you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean.
Speaker 1:It's not, isn't it? Yeah, so I don't want to preach. Yeah, you're a coach, not an instructor. I'm a coach, not an instructor. Well, I think because we're all here, aren't we? The point of the podcast is we do get people in that are giving us information, but also it's this other side of inspiration through experience. Yeah, so I've got my experience and Seb's got his experience, and the idea of the podcast was we should be sharing this because Seb's lost friends. I've lost friends. In fact, the reason I first started talking about the PTSD was I don't know if you know Jimmy. Do you know Jimmy Campbell?
Speaker 2:I do know Jimmy Campbell. Jimmy Campbell boxed on one of my promotions.
Speaker 1:So Jimmy Campbell that took his own life? Yeah, Jimmy Campbell boxed on fucking hell. I got those pimps in.
Speaker 2:I got them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Jimmy Campbell were up at Tobin's gym and you know we used to go out and we had some good times. Yeah, funny enough, I remember four of us when a load of door stuff started on us and we won't say how that finished, but we were Falling out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to say how that finished, but we were falling off. Yeah, yeah so. But the thing is, when jimmy took his own life, I was like sort of struck hang on, because what we're at about 86, 85 or something, no, no, sorry. Two, 2015, go on. I'm in the wrong generation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, something around that definitely around that time because I'd sort of bottled all my ptsd, yeah, and then found my way going into nature and that was my sort of meditation. But then when that happened, I had another fucking realisation of guilt. Complex, because I'm like I've got all this information in my head about how I've got through this. Yeah, because I'd been told you've probably got a month. You know what I mean? My counsellor thought I'd be dead within a month because of the way I drink.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, but that sort of like well, we can't carry that, I can't carry that on my shoulders without you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, very, very sad. The people that we've sort of lost through, yeah, and lots of others that we've sort of lost through stifling information and not talking about it, which is why we're all here, isn't?
Speaker 2:it? Yeah, of course, and I totally get that Like going through all that, or you've lost them and there's a guilt there that you knew certain chicks and certain things they could have done to help that, and you think you know, why didn't you say that? Why didn't you do that? Do you know what I mean? And you live with that, don't you, dear?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do you sort of rumination and you go through it and thinking well, you know you should go to a gym with you know Seacroft Ment so then this thing, this portraying this, portraying this image and people struggling inside, and I think my opinion is that, his opinion that there's lots of people going through that now. Yeah, I mean. So, if we can, if we can get into providing information, like you're doing, to especially primary school, yeah, we don't have to be telling them what the outcomes could be. Yeah, because they might never even experience them through these methods. Yeah, I mean that's it.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just like not getting them to know what anxiety and stuff is, but getting them to be in an educated thing where they're past that. Do you know what I mean? Like the ways they're not computed, like you said. You know if we can add them five things into them through a young age, but in a smaller way and as they're growing. You know they've already got these in place. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So they're already practising these things so they might never go down that road where they need to be stifling thoughts and stifling, you know, sort of head fuck stuff. Yeah, yeah, you can swear on it, perfect Thank fuck for that. So because you can swear on it, perfect thanks for that. So because we're on the education thing, let's go with that.
Speaker 2:Where do you see that going to? Hopefully, oh, I'd like to. They want me, obviously this first school, to be sort of an ambassador for it. So I'd like to get that to blow up and and go throughout, you know, yorkshire and leeds, and hopefully throughout the country if we can get it right yeah you know, and just just get people on board and trainers on board to give up the time.
Speaker 2:And you know, you know, get things right. So our next generation of young, you know boys and girls, children, growing up, that they're, they're strong, you know individuals and and they understand what life's like, not just through a computer system but through actual what life is about. You know everyday life, you know not just nine till three, boom, boom, boom done, everyday life, what goes on, understanding feelings. And you know, you know, a strong, a strong nation, such would yeah, and what about the gym and your future?
Speaker 1:basically, this, this, this is lifelong project now, isn't it? You're not giving this up. I can see the passion in you there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's my pride and joy. I've said it before, I don't know no else. I know boxing, I know Thai boxing, I know stand-up sports. I'm very confident in myself as a trainer and Stu Littlewood's brought out the confidence in me to be a businessman with it. Now I've 21 years old, I'm 13, coming up 36, you know I made a lot of mistakes in business. You know a lot of mistakes just by trusting individuals and not doing things right. And I've learned by him now because I've got Stu on board and he's very educated me, mentored me on that kind of stuff. But the future Golden team is a gym full of good people, friendly people, family-orientated people. I feel you know no egos, just hard work and dedication on the front of a business and a gym and as a trainer and a fighter, a gym full of champions where you can train with us. You know, but if you're going against us or fighting us on paper on the night, we're feared as a team of fighters, you know, because we're solid in everything we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I suppose if we should mention those that come in and don't want to fight, don't want to 95% of people, that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah 95% of people. I have got guys, older generation guys, 60s, 70s. I had a girl in Talley actually she did a white-collar charity boxing event. I think she was 73. Do you know what I mean? It's just absolutely mental. It's like a lot of the time with our gyms people just come down, They'll do a few curls, but I know what they're here for. They're here to take piss and fuck about and just enjoy. It's not a youth club, it's a proper, recognised gym. But people feel, they feel welcome and it's a family. Is our gym, it's a family.
Speaker 3:Community.
Speaker 1:What? Yeah, I was going to say it's another one of five pillars Community. It's an important one. There you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's nothing like community when you you know pulling people about, doing like Thai wrestling and that you know, yeah, knees in ribs and having a laugh afterwards.
Speaker 2:I mean it's like it's funny today because I went over to Bolton, I took Jimmy Sweeney and I took Kobe McNamara, who's an undefeated pro. Yeah, he's fighting on 15th and then he's fighting at Doncaster Stadium, so he's got some good bounce coming up and it's funny he goes. We go another gym. We're not fuck out of each other.
Speaker 2:Shake hands and get on with the day and that's practice of what he's gonna do, do you know? I mean? That's why it's like you get young kids. You know the boxing boom, boom and then shake hands. You know, well done, mate. Whoever got better on the day, inspiring in the gym, there's no falling out. I've seen gangsters and in six, seven months later seeing them up in Dorf with people coming in. You know what I mean. How was your day? It's mad. What boxing can do for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think. Well, yeah, combat sport. I remember going to Tobin's gym just after I first met him and I got I was sparring on my third session. I was sparring with this kid who was about eight and a half stone. Fucking leaded me.
Speaker 2:Bumbles.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It was great. You know what I mean. Yeah, it was like fucking hell.
Speaker 1:What am I doing? But I mean, in these times, I suppose what you've touched on there, or the streets, we've got people that are not coming to gyms and are fucking stabbing each other.
Speaker 2:Stabbing each other and just thinking that's the end thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like I've seen so many boyos come into my gym and get humbled through boxing and through just through what these I mean. Like I've had sparring classes where there's been lads you know of coming who are rough heads or whatever All nice kids and all that. But young kids box their ears off, not in a way where they're just barring it, but sure I've said to the kids come off with the gas and just go steady with them. And the lads have come to me and said I can't believe these young lads, don't they? Huh, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Like how it's great, it's great when you say you had a few boys, come in as boyos yeah how do you approach that? Do you actually talk to them? Is there a lot of communication going on, as well as training?
Speaker 2:it's like a boxing place is an intimidating place. You know it can be intimidating and the first thing I do when I walk through the name I know the name, I know a little bit of something about them and I take them. I have them at ease straight away. They feel comfortable in the surroundings. You just see these lads who might come in a bit stern, they just open up, you know, and they're just chilled and it's a place of home for them, you know, and they're just not like that on the streets and stuff like that. You know it's just mad how you see people change through this sport. It's fucking best sport of the world.
Speaker 1:Fact yeah, yeah fact, yeah, I do love them sort of things, them environments, but then again I can put it into sort of mountainside. You know when I'm doing that, and I've said it hundreds of times now, you know you get people out that are a bit nervous and come out for a walk and they're out in mountains and they're just Mad, just discommunicated. Yeah, it, exactly. Yeah, funnily enough, I've been teaching that to you, blowing that stress out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. Yeah, young lad that I've been working with, put it back alone and let it go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can see, you know these young lads getting really angry. Well, I think a lot of it's about ego and that they just want to hit everyone. But they're like, right, I'll tell you what. Just blow that out.
Speaker 2:And they cool. I'd just like to give a shout out. Napoleon's casino just sponsored me going forward as a trainer for myself. Personally, I'm very, very grateful. I just want to give napoleon's casino a shout out, looking forward to working with these guys from april going forwards that's great that some you know people are supporting what you're doing because it's trickled down in it.
Speaker 1:I mean, where this trickled down from government. But that's bullshit.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic. It's mad because I went to the establishment. They invited me down and it's like that's a community as well. I walked in and the people are having a laugh, having a few drinks. They're doing whatever a bit of gambling, having fun. I went down, had a few drinks, my wife came, watched the boxing and I thought how lovely that it wasn't just like a normal night out. It was just great. We're a community again, so community can be anything, can't?
Speaker 1:it. Oh, yeah, yeah. When a group gets together. I mean, as long as you don't mean, yeah, we don't. There's some communities that we don't want to deal with. I think they're called gags.
Speaker 2:As long as they're not the right concept you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not harming anyone else.
Speaker 2:I'd just like to thank you both for making me feel at ease. I like the name White Fox Talking. It's very good. I'll be looking forward to watching your podcast going forward. And yeah, just thanks for everything, fellas getting it out there, I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you, mate, there is. I mean, there was a tale about the White Fox. I'd like to say that it's a sign of endurance, you know, like an arctic fox and things like that. It were a girl on the door that called me a white fox. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll send you a link to film later on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go on.
Speaker 1:She went absolutely smashed and when we made this little film, she meant silver fox. I think she meant silver fox, but she went absolutely smashed. In fact, I'd like to say a special thank you to that young lady who came up to the door at Hedonist in when was it? 2021? Something like that? Oh no, 2019. 2019, but August Bank Holiday and she must have come out of Queen's Court. She went absolutely off her nut, yeah, and I couldn't let her in and there was this bit of banter and Rob were filming the little film and she's like, and she just turned to the camera and he had to cut it off because she didn't ask permission, but she just went. He's a representative of this establishment and he's a white fox and that's why they called the film the White Fox that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I love it, mate. I love it. It's all this. It's all this like what's it called? As we were saying last week, wasn't it All this synchronicity of the universe all coming in? Thanks a lot for coming in, mate. Thanks, pete Lovely. Thank you, mate, nice to meet you. Thanks, stu, for putting this together.
Speaker 2:And yeah, take care folks.
Speaker 3:Gracias.
Speaker 1:And if you'd like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to Buy Us A Coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefoxtalkingcom, and look for the little cup. Thank you,
