E83: From Bartender To Ironman — Jake Speakman On Running, Identity, And Self-Discipline

What if the thing you use to numb the noise is the same thing keeping you from real rest? 

We sit down with Jake Speakman to unpack a life spent under club lights—shots to start shifts, finishes at 4 a.m., and the illusion that sedation equals sleep. A lockdown run in flat Vans cracked that cycle. What began as clumsy first miles turned into a sub-2:45 marathon, and then into a leap that made little sense on paper: signing up for an Ironman without even knowing how to swim. 

Jake takes us inside the habits that stuck: early alarms, quiet streets, and training blocks that respect recovery as much as speed. He talks about the brain fog of sleep debt, and learning why alcohol knocks you out but never truly lets you rest. We travel with him to Australia—through pool sessions at dawn, group open-water swims shadowed by the memory of his uncle’s drowning, and a scorching bike leg where fueling decides the day. 

The finish line matters, but the bigger win is identity: proof that you can learn new skills, set bolder goals, and put structure back into a life that once revolved around the bar. 

Along the way, we dig into the nuts and bolts: building a 130 km training week, planning hangover days with Coach Steve, and swapping road monotony for trails and sensory cues that calm the mind. Jake’s move to daytime work helps break social gravity, creating space for routines that scale—running, yoga, better sleep, and coaching education so he can give others the playbook he had to write the hard way. 

Press play for a grounded, hopeful guide to changing course: from hospitality burnout to morning miles, from sedation to true sleep, and from self-doubt to goals that once felt impossible. If this conversation helps you take a first step, share it with a friend, subscribe for more real-world mental health stories, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talkie Podcast. I'm Matt Charlie Valentine and on the controls some some of the time today is Seb? Yeah, some of the time. Some of the time. How are you doing, Seb? I'm right, thanks. I tried to get security to run the controls for me today, but I think what's happened there is we gave him his gift. And now he doesn't want to know anymore. He's in charge of the team now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean he's not taking care of it. It's gone to his head. He's got ideas above his station. Talking of gifts, guess what I've got for you? Well you can see it, can't you? I've got you from I have used it. I see. So I didn't know which one was mine, so I used them both. But this is from Impact Collective. Oh. Thanks, Bruce. Yeah. Bruce and Joe. Forget that mucky mark on it that is. They've both been in my toolbox, you see. But anyway. How big is your toolbox? Well, at different times. Yeah, so there you go. Yeah. Should have kept that one a bit cleaner, shouldn't I? Or give it a bruff. Yeah. Anyway. So yeah, thank you. Continued support. Cool. Who's here? Oh dear.

unknown 1:02

Oh dear.

Hospitality Life And Sleep Debt

SPEAKER_02 1:04

We are introducing this evening or now Mr. Jake Speakman. Hello, Jake. The White Fox Talking Podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

How are we doing? Hello, Jake. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. Living the dream.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Living the dream. So the idea of the podcast would be to talk about some of our history together. And then getting into the run-in and the sort of benefits and hopefully give someone some inspiration somewhere out there. So can you give people a little introduction? Don't give don't give everything away.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I will waffle on. So yeah, I'm Jake. Background in hospitality, which is where we all met. Ran bars and restaurants for many years, and then over a period of time decided that that wasn't the lifestyle that was the best for me. So then branched into running a little bit, and then that's why I'm here to talk about today.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

So we met oh when was that? About 15 years ago. 15 years. 15 years ago. So I've known you only over half your life now. Exactly half. Oh, 32 now, mate. I'm I'm glad you come into this good place. I don't feel as guilty. So you started on the bars very early, didn't you really? I did, yeah, in a little bar called Mojo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

May have heard of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yes, yes. Mojo. I mean it's quite legendary as Mojo, isn't it? I used to work on the door there, and then we had a little bar helper.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

A little rendezvous, yeah. Yeah. Little uh yeah, starting off bar back in when I was 16. Then decided I enjoyed that a lot more than going to college. Oh, okay. What were you studying at the time? Psychology and media studies. Oh really? This language, yeah. Wow. I know. I've not used any of them since, so shout out Notre Dame. Right. Especially the English language, but still mastering that.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Well, that we all, you know, because we're all, you know, born in certain places that we don't really listen to English. It's just York's all the way through. So we can get me using subtitles, so yeah, so working in the hospitality and then Zoom sort of progressed to on the bars, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And tasting tasting your own Tasting my own wares, yeah. Toasting your own wares. And I think this is one of the we've had a few people in from the hospitality industry, isn't it? And it's it's the full thing around it, innit, with the alcohol and then the lack of sleep. But then you've got the good stuff of the community.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

It's all it's all encapsulating. Like their lifestyle comes with a lack of sleep, and lack of sleep promotes the uh lifestyle again.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

It does, doesn't it? And then you see people coming into work, and I probably shouldn't say it, but coming into work and feeling a bit shit from the night before and having a shot to get over it.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's the only way to get through sometimes. Was it's not great when you're working on the door though.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Nah. Yeah, and then them long late nights. Because some some bars we were, you know, four o'clock finish. Yeah. Most bars that I worked in, I reckon. Yeah. Some eight o'clock finishes. Yeah. So sometimes you get into bed early morning or mid-morning. Sometimes you're not getting to bed at all.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Of course, yeah. And then getting up at three, four o'clock and then going again.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

And then going for the shift, yeah.

PTSD, Nightmares, And Sedation Myth

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Did that have an effect on yourself, do you think? I reckon over time, a hundred percent. Like, there's I don't think the human brain's equipped to do that for as many years as we have been doing it. Oh body. Yeah. Well, I don't think yeah, I mean, I don't think human brain's equipped for doing that at all, is it? No. I mean lack of sleep and then add alcohol into the mix and other substances, it's gonna be a a tough time on the body as a whole, I think.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, I've been reading a lot quite about that about this this valve that opens between your and from your spin from basically your spinal fluid comes into your brain on a night and flushes it out. Okay. Yeah. But that you're in sleep. Yeah, but if you'll it flushes all the toxins out. But if you're not s one, if you're not sleeping, the toxins are building up. And I suppose, and I'm this is just an assumption of my own, that if you're just quite drunk, some of them fluids might not be the purest form for flushing anything out. I don't know. If some if we're if there's any professionals out there that know know about that stuff, because it can't be great, can it? And then but and I know my own experience of like lack of sleep, and I I was actively avoiding sleep for a long time just because of flashbacks and nightmares and so I Is that down to PTSD? That that's from the instant, yeah. So pick the PTSD stuff. And then other stuff that I mean I really didn't really think about at the time, the things that were happening during it, you know, working on doors and they've been involved in that and seeing violence, and then just going home and carrying on as though there's no and then you're having a drink on a night to pass out rather than sleep.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

You know what I mean? And it's not really sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I've never even thought about like the uh the day-to-day going on on the door affecting you going to sleep at all. Yeah, well having a scrap.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Having scraps and also, yeah, when you're working, you like when we're working in mint club, you know, some of the like best DJs in the world coming, you're banging music going, you're getting home and you're like, I can still hear music two hours late. 1 30 BPM. Yeah. Oh, without that, I listened to it in a northern northern light. Surge is it surgeon, the techno DJ. Lord of hell. Stood on stage and two hours stints, like flashing lights, and then you go into bed and you're thinking, why is my sleep not great? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you're smashing, yeah, so you're smashing cans and then you're wondering, you know, and but when we had sleep geeking, they were saying it's you know it more that's more of a sedative. So you're not getting you're not getting restful sleep, it's just knocking you out. But a lot I think a lot of people in the bar industry rely on that though. Yeah, of course. Yeah, the drink side. So did you have an interest in fitness and health and fitness before?

Lockdown Shock And First Runs

SPEAKER_00 6:12

I mean, when I was younger, yeah, for sure. Like I played football, obviously still drank, but not to the extent I did when working in bars. And then that completely dropped off when I was like 18, 19. And then it was only lockdown. Yeah, it only been lockdown when I started like properly running again or even thinking about exercise. I think that again was down to like the sleep pattern completely shifting and almost being like thrown into normal life because there was no other way.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Oh, okay. Did you find that like it went naturally that you you moved sleep patterns? Because I still struggled then, I think. You know what I mean? Because I've always been I think I've always always been sort of a an owl rather than a lark.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

I think I think it's quite easy for me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah. I think I just because it got to that point of like working, working, working so much, and when I stopped, I was just like, alright, I'm actually knackered now.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Oh, okay. So you noticed it then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Rather than using them distracting techniques that we sometimes used. Used. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So when you were younger and you were playing football before you started working on the bath, in retrospect now, did you notice a decline in your health and that a decline in mental health, mental like stress and until I didn't really think about mental health, to be honest with you, as like any sort of problem or it wasn't really like in the limelight or disgust as much as it is now at all, really. It was only when I was like mid-20s that I thought there could be something maybe going wrong in there, you know? So you don't really think about it, especially if you're like partying all the time, like surrounding yourself with your friends, and it doesn't like doesn't come to the forefront of your mind at all. But then there's just like one day when you're like, I actually feel presset for no reason. I can't really figure out why.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, that mine mine used to be Tuesdays.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah. It's a good day for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, well, they used to say, didn't I mean it's an audible word, but the the you know, like the clubbing scene, it were Suicide Tuesdays. Oh, really? Yeah, because you'd be out all night Saturday, most of Sunday, and then you get a bit of a sleep and everyone go to work on Monday, but then it's the Tuesday when it hit when it hit you. Merry Christmas. Yeah, Merry Christmas, yeah. Yeah, big up your bad self. Just like sobbing for no apparent reason. But when you look back, yes, I suppose, and this is the um one of the things that I just do for myself, is if I'm putting something in my body, like a large amount of alcohol or something like that, then I have to expect there's gonna be a payback. And whether that's something that's come because I'm older and wiser, or just because I'm older, and my body can't cope with it like it used to. Yeah. One ahead now. Well no, I just have to accept that I'm gonna feel like shit, you know what I mean? And the other thing is I don't go for them quick sort of fixes of a can of coke and a bloody double decker or something. Yeah. You know, when your body's craving the sugar, because again, I think that's I don't know how that ever works. No. It just it's a it's a this quick fix, isn't it? Yeah. Anyway. Enough about my former addictions. Double deckers. Double deckers, yeah, it's a love of double deckers. So moving into lockdown. Yeah. And the barn industry were heavily affected, and a lot of friends that we know were heavily affected, because zero hour contracts and just binned, weren't they?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was working in a restaurant at the time and we all lost our jobs just because, you know, couldn't keep up with paying the bills. So yeah, there was uh quite a few friends during lockdown that were just, you know, didn't know what was gonna happen with the lockdown itself, and then even beyond that, like where they'd we'd stand with work.

Couch To 5K In Bad Shoes

SPEAKER_02 9:11

So And I think it was very much when it picked on. What was that would that be the word? It seemed that the barn industry, they were trying to put all these other industries back and get people back to work, but then bar industries were blaming it and saying, well, people milling about in bars, this is gonna give people these could go on a little rant there, come on. People get you know, people are gonna get the this infection or whatever, this virus. Until they brought out Eat How to Hub. Yeah, yeah, and that were alright, wasn't it then? Then we were the saviors again, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, and that costs, I don't know how much that bloody cost the company uh country has it. But anyway, yeah, so how did you find it? Run in or lockdown?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Lockdown. Mixed bag, really.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Spent a lot of time with family and my girlfriend at the time, and yeah, I got into running, which was great, and then just loads of shit TV.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Loads of it, man.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yeah, I think I watched I watched nearly every episode of American Pickers. I don't even know what that is, but it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, I know I know I know loads about uh American antiques. I bet. Yeah, in fact, a podcast. Yeah, I could do it. I remember thinking, I remember actually cycling down canal to your birthday party, wasn't it? It was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Less than about other better. Yeah, that were nearly an end-of-life experience. Cycling home again down the canal at five in the morning. Yeah, with uh half a bottle of gems in that pocket. But it we yeah, it was a it was a such a weird when you look back now and you think, did that actually happen?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah. It was such a weird time, wasn't it? Yeah, really odd. I mean, just being like just being locked in your house, absolutely nothing to do, everyone was in the same shits, and no one had anything interesting to say to each other. And then, yeah, being thrown into the uh the running community. Rob did a we were selling Scotch eggs for a bit in our bubble. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, never been a chef before, but I was wrapping those eggs like no one's business. Yeah. So the running, wait, what spat what started that? It was again Rob and Fozzie. We're doing like the couch to 5k. Oh. And then I'd stuck on a pair of vans at the time, which was awful for the spine. Really flat. Yeah, really flat, mate. That's right. So bringing it up. And then yeah, sort of wheezed my way through New Farney for the first couple, and then uh took it from there, really. Just kept it going all through lockdown. It was the only thing that kept me sane, I think. Yeah. So apart from football, you never run before? No, no, no. Never had any interest in running at all. Because I don't have any interest in running.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

And Charlie keeps wanting me to run, but do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Do it, yeah. It's it's a do you know what? I find it a weird one because I really got enjoy it at the time. Charlie, you said you'd never run a marathon needle life. Now you're doing back to back. Well, I'm supposed to be doing it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

I'm supposed to have half marathon in four weeks. Oh yeah. It depends how my back goes. How's that going? Yeah, it's not going great, is it? It's not great. It is weird though, isn't it? Because not weird, it's just you start off so when I when I did the when I started training for the Yorkshire marathon, I caught my f all my fitness had dropped off because it was a time when my my dad were passing away with dementia, and all my time we're going to see him. And when I looked at my looked at my fitness thing with Strove, it's just like anything, and it just took me going just going to a going to a gym or to do a treadmill or going on 5k, I'm like, I really don't want to do that. Did you not enjoy it at all now? No, and your body's just my body's fighting back saying, What are you doing? What are you doing? And even now when I do the first 5k, it's awful. But then then it's then it seems to you seem to be alright. You're loosen off a little bit. Yeah. Although not a minute, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Did you have like a base level of fitness from all the walking or was it just like I think probably different.

Goals, Marathons, And Pacing

SPEAKER_02 12:39

I think it is a different level of fitness. So your couch to 5K? Yeah. So and that's obviously like an app where the people follow and how long did it take your foot? Is that NHS? It's an NHS thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

It was a charity thing. I'm sure if it was the NHS. Might be. That's to legit that. How long did it take you to get from the couch to 5K?

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Because I'm sure you didn't do 5K straight away.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

I think I muscled my way through 5K, but it was a bit of walk-in at the same time. I may it might have been three or four and then five. It said it wasn't like too long at all, but it it certainly didn't feel good. In them vans. No, gondo. Get sponsored if you have you tried converts. Yeah. The flatter the better. I'll do flip-flops next time.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

So how difficult was it for you to, you know, when you said you wheezed through it? Were you smoking all the time?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Just six. Yeah. Yeah, it smokes. I mean, I've always been like a a social smoker. So when I had to drink out of a fair few. So I wasn't like every day, especially during lockdown, because I wasn't drinking that much. Except when I was with Jack. But yeah, still smoked, still drank loads, like drinking pretty much every day on lockdown to be honest. But yeah, just during the day, just trying to tuck into a tank A. And yeah, took it from her. What every day? Yeah, yeah. So in January I set myself a goal of whilst on the Scotch Egg uh train, running 10K every day and trying to raise money for a charity.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Right. Which is dead. Good base level.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Did you find that because you're running it for a charity, it's a bit of a It was definitely more motivation, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

I think the couple of marathons that I've done, if it hadn't been for a charity, I'd have just bent it halfway around. Yeah. Yeah, like shit.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

And also if you say you're gonna do something as well, it's like can't back out now. Also it was locked down, so I had nothing else to do, so it's not gonna have any excuse whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

And I suppose it doesn't matter on the time frame, does it, really? Because you're not bugger all bugger else to do. That's it. I think one uh one excuse that people do use for not exercising is oh can't I've got I ain't got time. Yeah. I've got this to do, I've got that too, what other to do, but then yeah, that's sort of a baseline that I use for myself. If I ain't got time, I then probably doing too much other shit. Yeah. If I ain't got time to exercise and do stuff. Yeah. You do do a lot that yeah, people keep saying that. Yeah, yeah, don't don't play it. No, well I d I don't know, it's one of them. I just I think because a lot of my stuff's physical anyway, yeah, I don't really look at it as I've seen running as somewhat different.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Yeah.

From Bars To Daylight Work

SPEAKER_02 14:52

You know what I mean? Rather than being out and rather than being climbing and all what else. Do you enjoy it now, Charlie? Running. Yeah. So you hated it for years. Do you know what? When I was tie boxing, when I was at Turbins, I'd run eight miles three times a week. Did you? Religiously, not a problem. Yeah. Up to Gildersum and across the Mali and then back down. Just past the roundabout. And that and north from Beaston up past Dallan Road, right up Gelded Road. Why? And all the way around that way. Because then I could run up, you know, Cronus Lane. Remind me. Steep O'Dill, mate. Steep O'Dill. Hello. So the whistle stop. Yeah. I used to do my hill sprints then. And then I think when I got the injury when I did my when I did my knee, I couldn't run. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's set me off. Because I already had the PTSD then, but when I'd but I was still training, I was still tie boxing and went off on expeditions. And when I wrote my knee off, tie boxing, couldn't run. That's when I really smashed the bows then. Yeah. Yeah. Which wasn't wasn't ideal. No. So yeah, it's these distractions, didn't it? But now I've noticed now if I'm for if I want to I'll see where this thing is in in four weeks. But I'm aiming aiming for a a trail half marathon. Yeah. So I wanted to do it. And I don't think I'll I think I'll be right. I did 10 kit the other week and then now I've got this other injury. It just seems a medi-go round of injury. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's feast and famine. Russian roulette. Yeah. I think trail running would be so much more fun and entertaining for your brain than just running on the road. Yeah, well someone said that about the when are we training for Yorkshire marathon? Because I do a lot of treadmill stuff as well, which people don't like, but it's softer for my knees, softer for me for me softer for my back. That were training and I were just looking at a wall, which is ultimately really boring. It's psychotic. But when but that meant when I went out on the marathon, I was running, and I'm thing is I can't I've been all there's loads going on out there. Yeah, I'm running, but I can't stop trying to identify trees and things like that and looking at flowers and like, oh yeah, I know that, I know that. And it takes my mind off the run. You can maybe get like a sheet of paper or just a photo with the wall on, so keeping mind focused. So how you so you did the the 10Ks?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, shadow. Yeah, yeah. And then did you just not stop? You were just like, alright. So after that, once everything got back to semi-normality, I signed up for the Manchester Marathon, and then I wanted to run mine sub three hours. So where's that come from?

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Sub three hours? You know, for someone who was never running a marathon.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

I don't know. It's uh I just like going on YouTube and stuff like that, you see like these people that want to progress this certain time, and I don't know why I had it in my head. I was never like focused on a time or that was never my big goal. I was just I was around about that pace, and I thought four or five months I'll be smashing that easy.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

But that's it's around about that pace, but keeping it for 26.2 miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wasn't easy.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

You know? No, but I really enjoyed it, and then from there just wanted to do more and more, just fell in love with it.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

What pace is that in kilometres an hour or miles?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Four fifteen corners, yeah. It's going some, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

And keeping it going. The dreams 2.30 and then retirement. Right. Then I'm done. It's easy.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

But what what I'm trying to sort of work out is this mindset change from because I think I've been there myself when I've lost when I lost the exercise thing because of my knee, and it was just straight up just on the boost, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Well because if you'd never run before, I think it was that sort of there's obviously like the run is high, but then from having that routine of just doing that same thing every day, just like showing up for yourself, everything else sort of started falling into place. Like everything started becoming a routine. I was like, right, let's make notes for the day, and that was always like the priority. And then, you know, you obviously want to be fitter so you drink less, and then you want to take care of your body more and more, so you know, stop going out as much, focus on sleep, like we were saying before. And then yeah, it just sort of that was like the the catalyst for sorting everything else out, really.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

So yeah, I mean I've um the sort of five pillars with mental health, which we should keep talking about, you know, they're if you with exercise, exercise being one of them. Yeah. If you're gonna exercise, then you if you want the recovery, then you sleep, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah.

Signing Up For An Ironman

SPEAKER_02 18:38

So obviously that doesn't really work with the lifestyle that we were living or we've been living, you know what I mean? And it's and then that has an effect, the lack of sleep, and it's like this perpetual cycle, innit? Yeah. So career-wise, yeah, you've changed that as well. Indeed, yeah. So was that a conscious decision?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

So yeah, we went travelling. I went travelling around Indonesia and then to Australia, and I was still in hospitality at the time, but it's more daytime work. And I was like, this is far better than working nights, like really got into the mindset of like, right, being finished by 10 every day is amazing, because then you can do all this other stuff. And then it was Evie who was like, because I always said I've I can only do hospitality because it's all I've ever done, you know, it's all I've ever known. And she was like, Well, if you apply yourself so much to this and you care so much about this, why can you not do other things? So I just started applying for other stuff and then landed a job with a tattoo company, which is where I work now. Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

So I'm just thinking then, because we had we had Guinness under uh Sydney Arbor Bridge, didn't we? We did, we did indeed. That was a lovely little day. Lovely pint, lovely pint of Guinness as well. What was that pub called?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Memories that'll last a lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah. Yeah. Can't remember names, can't remember faces. We were there though, right? Remember it were a nice pint though. And that wall you used to stare at. It was that tile pub, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah. Take it about what is seven dollars a pint. No,$14 a pint, someone could. Yeah. Remember Prax? Yeah. We only stared for one. Huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Um so when you were in Australia though, you were training for Iron Man? I was indeed, yeah. So that was I think I was it was when we were working in Scotland, just before we'd left, I was like, again on YouTube, just looking at people doing Iron Man. And I was drunk in the whiskey bar, and I was like, I'll just sign up for it. I couldn't swim at the time and couldn't swim at all. I could like stay alive in a pool, you know, but nothing fair. And I don't think I'd ridden a bike other than a yellow mongoose for 16 years ago. Yeah. Pre-mojo. But yeah, started training for that when we were travelling around, it's like any pool I could get into, and then had like five months when we landed in Australia to learn to swim properly, buy a bike from Amazon and really get stuck into being a triathlete. Is that what Ironman is? Yeah, so it's 3.8 kilometers swim, 180k bike ride, and then a marathon, spicy day out. Yeah.

unknown 21:00

Yeah.

Learning To Swim And Open Water Fear

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Depending on which angle you're coming from and about a day out. So with the swimming, did you find that how did you find adjusting to that and that length of time in a pool?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Because that can be It's frustrating at first, because it's very technique based. Yeah. And with the running, like I said, just muscled through it. Like you can sort of switch your mindset to be like, I can get through this. But if you don't know what you do stroke wise with swimming, you either look like an idiot or you're gonna drown. Yeah, but yeah, running is like walking faster, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

But swimming.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

That's what they say, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Like paddling faster. Swimming's like running, but in water. But laying down as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, it's swimming. If you're doing length after length after length, you know how how was your mind set with that?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

And did you have do you find it meditative or um in some aspects, yeah. Some of it is really, really dull, don't get me wrong. But there's it's certainly peaceful, especially if you go in early. I was like training in the middle of melting. City centre with this pool that used to get rammed, so I'd have to go dead early, so there's no one there, so it's really quite peaceful. But when they I was doing like open water swimming, I had like a real fear of open water because of what happened with my uncle. And doing that was just traumatizing. Do you want to tell us what happened to your uncle? He drowned in Australia, actually. Oh shit. Yeah, saving three kids when I was a little lad. Yeah, so obviously that was uh that had an effect on me. Yeah, do you know what? You definitely knew that. We spoke about it in uh Sydney Harbour over that 14 years.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bloody hell. So how did you adjust with that? How did you cope with that part?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Just well, I was swimming with a group. I wouldn't have done it on my own, no way. And yeah, just sort of you've just got to switch your mindset to doing it, I guess. There's no way of not doing it once you're in there. Once you paid for your ticket. That's it, yeah. Unreal. But yeah, just did a few of them and then on the day it wasn't as bad because there's thousands of other people, but I'd say the training for that in the open water was like something probably one of the scariest things I could have done.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Right, because of what had happened.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like the fear of the unknown, being in Australia as well. Well, yeah, definitely being in bridge.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah, well, you don't want to you can't swim off bridge now, anyway, can you? Plenty of things in the water there that you don't want to touch. But yeah, I I suppose if I'm if I'm swimming anywhere I see a shadow. I've done that actually, swimming. Yeah, swimming. You've gone between so that the sun's at your back and you see your own shadow under the water.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

It's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah. Especially in Australia.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Like a catalogue of shit that just doesn't like you.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Well, yeah, I mean it's you're just a bit of foolbare, aren't you? Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to get my head around this thing of going and going not being out of swim and then going and doing that after what happened in the backwards.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah. Yeah, it's good. It was a little I enjoyed like the actual day I really enjoyed. And once I was out of there, I was like, thank fuck I did that. That was amazing. I wouldn't do it again. What about the biking? It was a long, like it's like six and a half hours, very sore ass. But yeah, it was great. But it was in the middle of Cairn, so like hydration was if I hadn't fuelled well, I would have been off the bike 100%. It was just such a long day.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah. But the difference from what we're talking now from Iron Man uh to Iron Man from marathon drinking sessions. Yeah. It's quite how how long would that how long's that taken?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

So I did Iron Man two years ago. And then started running in lockdown. So what's that?

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Oh yeah, well, so that's three years, three years is before that, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

So three or four years, I'd say. Yeah.

Bike, Heat, Fueling, And The Marathon

SPEAKER_02 24:22

So that's pretty rapid, isn't it? To be doing that and learn to swim. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And buy a bike. And get it delivered from Amazon. I know, yeah. That's two days. That's two days there, yeah. What changes have you noticed in yourself, you think? Just from like the very start to now. If you've taken measurements of things, it'd be very much up and down, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not been linear, you know, there's I'm still partial to a drink. Yeah. As you know, as we both know. But in in what has changed with me, is just like structure, being like organized, mentality, like wanting to do stuff for myself and just yeah, just keeping grounded and focusing on other things rather than being distracted. You moved away, didn't you, from Leeds? Yeah, yeah. Do you think that has helped you? 100%, yeah. I think a lot of it, especially when you're surrounded by friends all the time that are doing a similar thing, you play off each other, don't you? And being removed from that has def was definitely beneficial for me. But as much as I missed everyone, I think if you remove yourself from the situation where all this is going on, then you can focus on other things. Yeah, I think that living where I lived in Beeston, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

20 minutes it took me 20 minutes to walk into Leeds. Yeah. And there was some people I couldn't believe that I walked from Beeston to Leeds. 20 minutes, you know what I mean? Thirsty. Yeah. But that thing of you might have I might have had work to do, or I might have had something to do, or I might have been bored, and you're just like, 'cause you know where someone's working. Yeah, it's just so much fun. I mean, you're to blame for most of these. I know, yeah. I was gonna say I'll just go see Jack, you know what I mean? I'll just go in town and have a drink, and it is in it, it's hard. Yeah. And that's but it's not them, it's not your fault that my my little angel and devil, yeah, the devil was shouting louder. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, it just goes right, get into town and go see someone.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Yeah. So easily done, especially when the discounts there as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that has been enough since I've stopped working outdoors, I don't know. Really? Have you noticed a a decline, have you? I've noticed that I don't drink as many shots because I have to pay for them. Yeah. In some places. Yeah. And you're like, how much? A pint and a shot. So yeah. So we've kept to you you you've lost them distra well, you're not lost them distractions, you've moved away from them distractions. Yeah. So how how easy do you think it's been to get into that routine? Because a marathon's a marathon's sorry, I'm gonna bigger. Marathons are easy, they're not for everyone. But it's only one percent of one percent. You're you're in the one percent of people that will ever run a marathon.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Yeah, did 244 this year. Which is pretty pretty rapid.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Yeah, you were you were with you in the same race? Oh, yeah, but that when you overtook him. No, he's dead. It would so he finished finished two and a half hours in front of me. Is that right? Yeah, you could have or do you think you'd have to catch me up if you'd have gone.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Well, when we got back to Leeds, I'd had four pints, so whatever time difference that is.

Routine, Structure, And Drinking Less

SPEAKER_02 26:55

I was stuck in in a traffic jam because I had to drive myself. My presentation was just wrong. You know what I mean? It'd all gone wrong that morning, on it. Oh, I'd have everything had fallen to bits. It wouldn't matter how fit I was. You finished it there? I finished it, yeah. Legend. More through more through beans. Still burn, still burn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Still burn. Yeah. It's just one of them, isn't it? When it it kicks in, it does you know, it does, it does uh does hurt, I think.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, it's you know you didn't have much fun on yours, did you? Last last 30k last 10k last 30. Last 10k was awful, yeah. I just not put as much carbs in my body as I should have done. Really?

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

There's a lot of grunting going on. Yeah. And now not in a sexy way either. No. I don't believe it. So and how did you get through that? Just determination. Determination, yeah. Just setting a goal for myself and I would have been more fuming at the end than I was at the time. So what if you'd have either put slowed down or not finished? Yeah, if I'd uh if I hadn't got the time that I wanted, I would would have been more frustrated than you know that there's that instant if I had if I'd have stopped at the time, it would have been that instant relief, but it's just like push through. It was 40 minutes. Yeah. I didn't look well in the photos though.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

No. I ain't seen you have to send me them. I mean I'll be honest, I didn't look well in mine, and half of them I were walking.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah, please do.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Were you as it for the thoughts? Yeah, I had to walk. You get merch printed, right? Like t-shirt. I had to I had to walk bits of it because my legs just wouldn't respond. Yeah. And again, it was like, what did I I'd gone climbing for a week in Spain the week before.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

I know that I mean that were do you think with tapering didn't work? Yeah, I don't think it's much of a taper if you're climbing up a mountain 14 hours before you meant to start.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

And then yeah, and I suppose then because we're in Spain, we're having a few bears on that as well. And then that thing of dehydration and exhaustion. Dehydration, exhaustion. Two best friends. And then uh and then uh just not get my diet right there before. But I it's funny with food. It's a lesson learned, isn't it? I just can't I just can't get my food right before I run. I either don't I don't I don't eat enough or I basically want to shit myself.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Didn't you have a curry the day before as well? Spanish curry?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

I'd had I'd had curry in uh not the day before. Not the day before. Not an animal. But had some bananas. But it is a learning club, innit? So Yeah, of course. Are we gonna put people off? We're supposed to be encouraging people to get out and exercise. It's the best thing you can do, just don't have a curry two hours before you start a race.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

So when you're out running, how much training do you actually do? At the minute, none, because I'm injured. But I'd say about 130k a week, roughly.

Training Load, Injury, And Coaching

SPEAKER_02 29:16

So that's what about 89 miles, yeah. So how long would uh do you do an average run or do you have like a long run, easy run?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yes, I do I'll do a few easy runs during the week and then one speed session and then I'll have like one big long run, which is like 35 to 40k every Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Well that's just under marathon distance, anyway. Yeah, yeah. Just a bit slower. Have you upgraded your footwear yet?

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I have indeed, yeah, yeah, yeah. The converse that we were talking about earlier.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

How does that work with everything else with work and social life relationships? Because that's quite a lot, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

It is a lot. I do most of it during the morning, so I'll get up at five. Relationship-wise, it's fine. Because EV doesn't wake up till about six or seven o'clock. So I'm back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well deep sleeper. But yeah, I mean social side has obviously got to take a hit sometimes, especially because you know, a lot of my socialising is to do with alcohol still, which is fine, but you've just got to, like we were saying earlier, just plan ahead a little bit more. I still dabble. Yeah. Show me face every now and again. Show your face.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

So if you had a training, if you had your training plan, yeah. And and if you had your training plan set out and then there's a so something happens as something social, yeah, would you just like no I'm not drinking? Or would you still have a beer and then just go do the run anyway?

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah, it depends. So I will have a couple of beers and then run the next day, but Coach Steve, shout out Coach Steve, he will ask me every training block when are the hangover days. So yeah, so it's already already planned in.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Right. Good lad. He's a great lad. So is that understanding?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, well, isn't it? I mean, it's this thing that you know, like with when we spoke to Josh Warrington about the training. And he's one of these that just trains anyway. He just doesn't get uh involved in that side of it, really. Whereas I've known people the old sort of the sort of old spit and sawdust days would have been someone training for a box for a for a boxing belt, professional boxers, and then having to cut the weight so much before a fight because they're and dehydrate to get down to the weight, and then as soon as I finish, out on the piss and like putting like Ricky Aaron used to do it, innit? Where he'd um he'd put like two stone on. In what what time span do you reckon? Uh I don't think it'll be very long with the mounting game. 30 minutes. But do you know what I mean? That must be so hard for anybody. And I know people that have been into forces where they're you know they're they're knowing they're doing these route matches, but it's this community thing where they'll drink, drink, drink, and then still get up and do the runs, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Do you reckon that's just uh to sort of I don't know, like balance yourself out? It's like if you're so strict on doing one thing that you just allow yourself they just push through it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah, very possibly. And I I know when I've done when I've done it myself when I've tried fitness like a fitness binge.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Yeah.

Mental Health Gains From Running

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah. And I've done it for weeks and weeks and weeks, and then next first time I get a s a chance for a social, and it just goes off the scale, really. Yeah, it's straight back into older. I mean, after Leeds man, I think. Yeah. Or I went called in a potter for a pint and I'd You're on the bar, wouldn't you? Hey, on the bar. I thought celebrating. I'm gonna win medal on. So obviously we're mental health podcasts. What would you say the benefits or has it made any difference?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

100%, yeah. It's completely changed who I am. I know it sounds pretty cringy, but it is like the the my mindset has just completely changed from being, you know, not really focused on still driven, like still a driven person, like still, you know, like to go out and do stuff and focus on certain things, but just having that one like thing that I know is good for me and also good for my body, but also good for like perfect for my brain, like has just been like I'm completely different human now.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

So when you're running, what do you think? Yeah, try and are you just looking at your watch, running time, meditating. I just completely switch off. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

It unless it's like a a session where you need to keep your eyes on the times and stuff, it's just it's almost like a bit of a flow state sometimes. Especially when I'm out at like 5 a.m. when there's no one else on the streets, you can just completely switch off. And like work's work can be quite stressful as well. So just having that one thing where I'm on my own. Don't like running in groups really. Right. Yeah, just a bit of me time a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Did you do you find it easier to set yourself goals now? Because you've done so many goals that were kind of unknown goals, yeah, like the swimming, like the biking, like the running.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah. Well, that would that was completely if you'd have a told me that however many years ago, I would have said it's completely unachievable. And it's almost like setting me up for the next thing. It's like, well, if I've done that, then why can't I not branch out and do working in a different like sector or set myself another exercising goal or you know, go out and travel. I think that's been the like the the crux of the whole thing, really. So apart from your sub 230 goal, yeah. What are the goals have we got? After that, so I'm currently learning to be a running coach. So I'd love to progress in that industry and give back what you know what running's given to me really. And just mental well-being and physical well-being into yoga now as well. Lovely. Not so much the meditating stage, I'm not at that point of humming a lot, but yeah, just just keeping active, keeping fit and just showing up for myself.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Yeah, it's that there's a massive relationship in there, and I don't think people look for quick fixes a lot.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Yeah.

Solitude, Flow, And Trail Joy

SPEAKER_02 34:19

I suppose I did. Yeah. And quick distractions, but I think everyone does.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

I think it I think it's a what we call it actually. It's a uh it's a human trait, innit? Of course. The easy way. What's that book? The Miracle Pill. Can't remember the guy's name. Yeah, the Miracle Pill and it's all about it's basically about walking and movement.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

And now all, you know, in the physiology. Is that the right word? Physiology of it just keeping your body moving.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

But it's so hard to get into though, isn't it? And if you if there is like an ulterior, alternative, sorry, route that you can go down, which is a lot easier just taking a pill, then why would you not try that first?

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Well they did studies with these guys in the Mibia, didn't they, that you know, super fit that chain chase an animal for three days. But rest of the time they're like, they're just chilling out next to fire. They don't go training. Yeah. I think I read a passage where they were, you know, taking all these treadmills to these African villages to get them on. They're like, why?

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't need it, mate.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Yeah, we don't need it. Yeah, I mean, they'll just chill, and then if if they get an oh, just do this barefoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't need me, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What so what sort of advice would you give to anyone? I suppose it's not just running, but uh something that's so you've you've found running and you really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

I mean Could it have been anything else, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Or it could have been anything exercise-wise, I reckon. But just find something small. Like it don't have to be you'd have to set yourself huge goals at first. Just, you know, go like go for a walk or you know, if you're into cycling, just go for a bike ride. Just find that one thing that you really enjoy doing and then just build it from there. It also doesn't have to be you don't have to be competitive. Yeah, you don't have to go down that road.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

I th I think you just become competitive with yourself though. After a while, like once once you've done it, you always want to just beat yourself a little bit. You're wanting to get under two and a half hours because I'm wanting to get under five hours and that's it, mate.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

You're my you're my inspiration, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

That is my I've done three marathons involved, all being bit uh between five and five twenty. Yeah. I'm like And if I'm thinking like last time, if I'd have had a career the night before or whatever, I had to got a cramp, but then I'd have done it. You could have showed four hours off a ground that career. Well we're running with I were running with a guy that was four and a quarter pacemaker. Yeah. And then my hamstring just went, we're not having this. But I'm just uh yeah, just then when you was so you you're running and you like being by yourself. Yeah. That's totally opposite to the working in the bar industry, isn't it? Yeah. Or did you like being by yourself in the bar industry? I didn't mind it in the hospital because it was stunned on a door. You know what I mean? I used to get annoyed when people came out talking to me.

Coaching Path And Future Goals

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I didn't rate other than when I started running, I hated being by myself. Oh, did you? Yeah. Even like growing up, I can't remember a time when I was like content with myself. Yeah. What listening to your own thoughts? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially working in the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yeah. There's dark times. Some of that. I don't think you listen to your own thoughts then. You listen to your is your yeah. You listen to what's going on in your head. But it might not be your own thoughts, you know. I mean, it's comp it's like there's a difference in there, sort of, what you're thinking about or what's been popped in your head from somewhere. Where's that come from? Yeah. I know when we had Rich Cadden in as well, he was talking, you know, about this was it, CBT? Cognitive derbial visceral therapy. And when I took away from him, because that was training for Leeds marathon, I started running, doing trails. Yeah. And just bridal wars and stuff like that, and running down canal rather than running round roads. Yeah. And I was like, I'd see a heron. Not the shunke heron we saw at Manchester. I'd seen a heron, and I thought, well, if I run another two and a half K, I might see it. See another heron. Yeah. So I put another 5k on my walk on my run because it was there and back. And I did see another heron. I would have thought trail running be right up your street. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

It's like a mix of the two, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

And I do like I I'll be honest, I do like I like it when there's no one else there. Yeah. A few reasons. People don't see me blowing out my ass as much. But also, yeah, it's just that sort of I suppose nature connection with me. Yeah. Yeah. Bit of reflection. Bit of reflection, yeah. You're not, yeah. Nah, a little bit. So we've where we're looking at now. So we coaching, you've passed your first module.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

I have indeed, yeah. I'm now a leader in running fitness. Excellent. Excellent. Lead a small group of people and they won't die, essentially. Is this going to be a long-term plan? Yeah, yeah, 100%. So next year I'm looking at so you need to pass his first course to then be sort of accepted into the coaching in running fitness module. And then yeah, I want to see how far I can take it. Hopefully next year get a few people that want to train with me. Yeah, take it from there. We'll be doing all people. Yeah, absolutely. Oh broken people. Let's do it. There's a lovely curry house near me.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

There's another curry house for the for the um for the free matchup for the card loading. Thank you for coming in, Jake. No worries at all. It's one of them where sometimes I'm like, oh god, I've known Jake half his life and we've had some good times together. But you think about good times, but then you think about now and you think, well, they're bad times, and then well, no, the one. No, no. It might have been sort of damaging to health for a few days.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

But I think there's a lot of situational relationships by one putters in that category at all. You're a very lovely man.

Culture, Socializing, And Alternatives

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yes, good luck with everything. Thank you very much. Obviously, I'll be keeping in touch with you. And we'll have to catch up for some more of them um walking experiences down the canal. Really good. Little nature walk with the lads. It was very lovely. Yeah, no, I mean that were uh that were something different, wasn't it? It was. Yeah. Meeting up, having a catch-up, because you're in Manchester, we're all over here, but catching up midway and having a like a nature walk. We still had a beer, not a lot of beer, but we still terrific something. It was a lovely time, you know. I mean, rather than just sat in a pub. Yeah. So it can be done, can't I think? It can. Yeah. With proof. With proof.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Look at us now.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah. Who'd have thought it? Get the evidence.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

We're over one walk.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Evidence based, study, one walk. We all enjoy it. It works. That's it. Never again. Yeah. Although I suppose sometimes we do think what am I going to do if I don't go out for a drink, I'm not going to say anyone. And we have that thing, don't we? So I think it's a British thing.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, yeah. It's embedded in the culture for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Yeah, there's not there's not many societies that are like British where you think people just go out and get the dehammered or I can't go out and do something that don't involve going to the pub. Rest of the week guys as well, isn't it? So where do you get them opportunities to go out and talk with talk with people? Although you got you go, you know, there's the thing about this men not talking to each other as well. They do talk to each other, but they don't talk about things. Don't talk about anything important. No, exactly. Exactly. Not very often anyway. Yeah. I think it's changing.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah. I think it's also a prison designed by men, really. You know, they're definitely the limitations set are definitely a lot from the male point, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Cool. Right. Thank you, J. Thanks, guys. Take care. Good luck with sub 230. Thank you very much. Yeah. What about me? Good luck. Good luck with sub five. Sub five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can do it. Good luck. Good luck with being out of stand up straight. Yeah, that's we we all have ambition, don't we? One day. Little goals.

Closing Thanks And Support

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Thank you. No worries. Cheers. And if you would like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to buy us a coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefolkstalking.com, and look for the little cup. Thank you.