E86: Calm Under Pressure – What Combat Sports Teach Your Mind with Rich Cadden

Getting hit is the least interesting part of combat sports. What matters is what happens to your mind when pressure rises and how training teaches you to stay calm, focused, and in control when your instincts want to panic.

We sit down with Rich Cadden, a two-time Muay Thai world champion, BJJ brown belt, and coach who blends fight experience with NLP, hypnotherapy, CBT tools, and work with neurodiverse students. We talk about the mental health benefits of martial arts training and why the right gym culture can turn anger into discipline and insecurity into grounded confidence. Rich breaks down flow state and why it can feel like a clean, ethical “high” that helps quiet anxiety and depression through exercise-induced transient hypofrontality.

You’ll also hear a practical look at fear management through evidence and repetition, the stress arousal curve that explains why people freeze, and the real-world survival responses of fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. We get into bullying, boundaries, and why self-defense starts long before a confrontation with posture, awareness, and trusting your gut. If you’re curious about Muay Thai, MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, or boxing for stress relief, resilience, confidence, and community, this one is a roadmap.

If you enjoy the show, subscribe, share it with someone who could use a stronger mindset, and leave a review. What’s one skill you’d want from training: calm, confidence, fitness, or focus?

Transcript

Remote Setup And Life Admin

SPEAKER_05 0:02

Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast. I'm Mike Charlie Valentine. I'm not at the side of me today because of the wonders of technology. It's Seb. Hello, Seb.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Hello, Charlie.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

How are you?

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Yeah, great. It's it's really hard to get our calendars aligned, isn't it? Since we have to do this online. It is.

Why Combat Sports Help Mental Health

SPEAKER_05 0:19

And especially when we've got such a busy person coming up as well. Not for the first time. Not for the first time. So let's just hope that my uh problems with a certain internet provider don't creep up and everything else off. I mean, even on my phone, for I'm even on my phone, I'm on 4G. I'm not on the internet, I'm not interested. Well, there you go. Although you will be proud of me this week, but so you know my difficulties with stuff out and administration and stuff, and this this this might affect a few people. I got a letter from the uh I got a debt collection letter. Wow, I managed to sit for an hour and a quarter listening to shit music on uh HMRC before speaking to someone, right? And then I spoke really nicely to the person, and then I explained that I've been paying this for these tax things, and that I've got this uh letter from her, like a bailer thing, like debt collection. And when she came back, she went, and bear in mind by that stage I'd usually smash my computer up or throw my phone out the window. And by that went, oh no, it's all sorted, you're in surplus. Oh well, yeah, there's money in the account, and that comes off the next couple of months. And do you know what I thought I thought of you? If I'd have had enough money in my account, I'd have just paid that because of the admin. And then I got to sort of thinking, how many people does this happen to? And just send them into absolute meltdowns. Do you know what I mean? So if there's anyone listening that knows about this shit, what's the money guy called? Martin Lewis Lewis. I'll try and get Martin Lewis on them. There's got to be things like this where systems just don't work, don't marry up, and then send people into a spring, you're in debt, you've got debt collection is. Oh no, it's our fault. Well, they don't they didn't say it their fault, they said it's a system thing. Anyway, apart from that, we're all good. So who's here? Well, it's been on before. The White Fox Talking podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact. But he is two times former world, what is it? What WPMF? WPMF. World PMF, Mike, World Champion. World Champion, yeah. Nice to see you again, Rich. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, good to see you guys too. It's been a while, been a while.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

It has been a while, and we've been trying to put this together for a while, haven't we? Because of your busy schedule, just teaching classes, etc. And then we got some we actually got fan mail. So when our first bit of fan mail through to the to the website, and I'm like, I don't know how to reply to this because the web was just a name. But somebody called Martin had written replied to the right reply to the file, I didn't even know we got from that, and mentioned that we spoke about doing a uh podcast about mental health benefits benefits of combat sports, because last time we spoke about NLP demands.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Yes, yes, we did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Another string of your books to your books. So without further ado, and sort of relevant to the subject, which is gonna be mental meant the mental well-being, mental health benefits of combat sports, then can you give us a brief introduction to yourself?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

So my name is Rich Cadden. I'm a former two times world champion in Muratai. I'm a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu brown belt. I've I've wrestled, I do MMA, anything to do with fighting, I'm your man.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

So yeah, I've competed under under under many different rule sets. Um, but not only that, I'm a big advocate of um mental health, talking to people, do all my NLP work, hypnotherapy, timeline therapy, cognitive behavior therapy. Um I do a lot of work with neurodiverse kids, um, people with ADHD, autism, things like that, um, whole host of um mental health issues. Um, and then also sometimes when you're in the heat of the moment, um coaching people through these stressful times that we all kind of feel when we're when we push up against an inner insecurity, when we push up against one of our possible learning points, this is this is what I now break down and coach people through. So rather than allowing people to just kind of quit and say, Oh, I can't do that, it's like right, okay, well what's stopping you? Is it like an overwhelm? Is it a is it an athleticism thing? Is it a a fear thing? We start broaching across all all these different manner of issues, and yeah, I've had I've had some I've had some great success, not only from taking myself through through this process, but also my my students and all my guys that I have out competing on the on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Cool. So there's I mean there's been a boost through my lifetime, you know, it it well I was a very angry young man and then bumped into Mike Tobin at one of the leads games and um got into tie boxing through Mike and sort of got humbled in the in the ring or sp just basically sparring with you know um someone who was faster lower weight than me and absolutely made a made me feel a fool, really. You know what I mean? Going in now, I'm going in swinging hair makers thinking well thinking of something I wasn't. Um and that sort of introduced sort of discipline to myself and and also but I also found it calmed me down.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah.

Humility Training And Ego Control

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and this was going to yeah, going two or three times. I mean, I I was dedicated to the training. I was never never great. It was all about heart the more less than talent. But yeah, for uh you know, training three times a week definitely and more recently it's when you mentioned that about with the ADHD. Um I've been working with some SEN kids and took them to Turbines and just found that they've been getting into trouble because the local elites, they've been getting into trouble on that, and then next thing they're I was like, Oh, I really like this, you know. And it's not but what's going on there with you know, because it's just a vent, is it is it's a way of just controlling our regression? I think I'll be honest, I think there's loads going on, and I'm hoping you're gonna explain it.

Why Combat Sports Are Growing

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, yeah. Well, like I say, it it's opening up that can of worms. Yes, normally when you say can of worms, it's like can open worms everywhere, it's a it's an absolute mess to tidy up. So one of the things that we have to that we have to deal with, that we have to address is like a degree of organization, kind of compart compartmentalization. So what we have to do is understand where the where the motivations are coming from. And sometimes, yes, okay, you you get in the ring and people think that they know what they're doing, they might have had a bit of success, maybe scrapping on the street or and think that they're that they're big men and and and stuff like that. But as soon as you have these experiences where someone drastically smaller than you, drastically lighter than you, maybe even younger than you, um lights you up and teaches you a lesson, you're like, oh, okay, maybe maybe there's maybe there's something to this. It's not about will and heart and determination. Maybe there's something to learn here. And so sometimes being able to take the kind of over-inflated egos and say, right, okay, if if you think that you can do well without my guidance, okay, you go. And put them up, put them in the ring, let them have a have a spa. Sometimes they do alright, sometimes they have a bit of early success. Um, then they'll and they'll clip someone cold, and it's like, oh wow, okay, this guy's got a dig, but he doesn't know how to defend. So let him burn themselves out. Oh, now you're tired. Now yeah, now you're tired, and you're against someone that's drastically more skilled than you. So what are you gonna do then? And so this it this becomes a as you say, a humbling process. Um and through through this, this is this way we we start to learn how to regulate ourselves, uh, learn to learn to learn to regulate that aggression, learn to regulate that over over-exuberance. Um yeah, it it becomes a a lifetime experience of this the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is knowing, knowledge is knowing it, wisdom is living that value. So so when people academically know something, then they can maybe recite it verbatim, might be able to recite it um perfect. That's what a lot of like academic schools push forwards now with rote style learning. Whereas people that have lived the values, the people that have lived those experiences, they've felt what it feels like to be on the other side. They've felt what it feels like to be on the receiving end of the these kind of techniques. And it's like, all right, okay, well, I'm gonna respect that a little bit more now. I'm gonna respect the that there's that there's something to learn. And then they have to keep that ego in check. So and there's a like I said, there's many ways of go about going about this. Sometimes it's the the old school way was um go down when when I first went down to the boxing gym, it was like there's they stuck me in the boxing ring, sparrow against one of the more experienced guys, you get lit up. If you turn up for a second time, it means that you've got heart and you're worth spending time on. Times have kind of changed now where people push the the academics to push the the coaching narrative. And so even if you come in with your ego, you get you get told to get in line, calm down, learn how to do the things first, and then when you're ready, you'll earn your right to progress. So it's not like a toughness thing anymore. People don't just walk into a boxing gym for the first time, get a bloody nurse, and then never turn up. That's and I think this is one of the reasons why um combat gyms have now started to grow, and there's getting more and more Thai boxing, MMA, Brazil and Jiu Jitsu, like there's more of these gyms around now that do what I what I call kind of real martial arts, none of the kind of energy martial arts, none of the kind of TIG martial arts, point scoring stuff. There's a time, there's a time and a place for that, and that's cool. I don't have any issue with that. But when we start talking about the reality of a situation, can you handle yourself against someone that doesn't know what they're doing, but they've they've got fire in the belly? Um, and this is this has been a part of the part of the process is that there has to be a degree of humbling, yeah, there has to be a a degree of education around.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Um so I think I've noticed I've noticed from when I started in like '95, yeah, like you said, big growth in Thai boxing gyms. But is that just because I noticed Thai boxing gyms because I was Thai boxing? But then this thing with mixed martial arts and also with ladies, females, girls getting into martial arts. Do you think this is for a self-preservation or is it a confidence?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Or I I think I think there's a whole host of issues going on. Um certainly with the the increase of information means that means that you get to hear about people maybe being assaulted more regularly. Um there's more freedom of information because of the the speed of the internet and and like reporting procedure and and and things like that, uh, which then maybe pushes people to say, right, I need to I need to look after myself, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go teach myself before I need it. It's better to be as the old saying goes, it's better to be a gardener, uh it's better to be a warrior in a garden garden than a than a gardener in a war. Um you you teach yourself before you before there's a need. And so I think I think people just like to feel a little bit more confident when they're how they walk down the street, how they hold themselves. Um and um yeah, like I th I think this uh this has been part of the growth. And also given the I mean Thai boxing doesn't get that much exposure, however, MMA, UFC and and things uh are becoming more um more more prevalent on normal normal TV. Loads of people have heard of Conor McGregor. Like I if I start talking about a really famous Thai fighter, that would only appeal to a lot of people that are already doing Thai boxing. Yeah, yeah. But like even even my grand grandma knows about Conor McGregor. Yeah, if it even my mum knows about Conor McGregor, it's it's just one of one of those things where it's just now in the lexicon.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

Yeah, it's been a bit of a mixed bug though, aren't I?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I mean, he's a great salesman, he's also he's also been corrupted because of the ridiculous amount of money that that he's made through not only UFC but his fact with mayweather and and stuff like that. And then I think it's the the money and the exposure that he got from that has then sent him down a down a wrong path as probably a bad yeah, probably a bad example.

SPEAKER_05 12:38

Yeah, well yeah, I think that sort of overshadows must have been ridiculously hard, hard fought wins, but and getting getting to that level that he got to, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Because he was something in his in his early years, um I remember when when Connor was um just starting um at the UF, I was working on a on a bama in Dublin. I was speaking to John Kavanagh, his his coach, and I said, Well, what's the thing that makes him different? He said, It's his work ethic, his work ethic, his commitment to training. He put all his eggs in one basket, he bit he bet on himself. Um, and it was through that process that I mean some fortunate things happened, he did really well for himself, but then um kind of got dragged to the dark side.

Flow State And Brain Chemistry

SPEAKER_05 13:22

I suppose with that um with that work ethic, and this is something that I did notice myself, notice in myself, and I've must mention it on the podcast before, is when I injured my knee, basically tore some knee cartilage. And this is while I was well, this is the this was two years into my sort of PTSD journey. That's when I went proper off the rails and it the hit the booze basically because I didn't have that dedication of training, you know what I mean? And then that all felt a bit to where because I was training all the time before I'm looking after my sleep and my nutrition. Obviously, there's a going down to the gym and the community, and then you m you lose all that, don't you? Yeah. So you know, then them factors there that involved in being part of that gym world for keeping someone's mind or getting someone's mind and mental health on the right track.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, martial arts is fantastic for developing flow state. So flow state is like a magical emotional state that we can get into. The same as happiness and sadness. Flow state is when you're functioning at your highest capacity, when you're doing your ultimate, okay? When you're when you're in flow state, where there's like five main hormones are released into your body that replicate one of the individual drugs from like recreational drugs. So there's like opiates, MDMA, uh weed, and a couple of others, but each of those recreational drugs is linked to one of the hormones that it releases in your body, which gives you that height. When you're doing martial art, all five are released at the same time. Flow is a highly addictive state, and it's done in an ethical way, so there's no hangover afterwards, there's a there's a there's no come down afterwards. Your body releases as much as you need as you're enjoying it, as you're exposing yourself to this external stimulus. You embrace it, you get on that vibe, and then all of a sudden, that's why you have so much fun when you're doing the exciting things. When you're doing exciting things, so like like with martial arts, like with you've may maybe heard of it through people talking about the runner's hat. You've talked talk about people being being in flow when they're in when they're in that kind of matrix mode. This was this was one of the one of the things that kind of directed us this way. So if we're if we're exposed to this training stimulus, we get a thing called exercise-induced transient hypofrontality. Okay, we start.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Glad you remember that.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah. So exercise induced, you're getting your heart, you're getting your heart rate up, you're getting oxygenated blood to your muscles, you're moving more, so you're switching that switching off your prefrontal cortex. Your cerebellum starts lighting up. Your cerebellum is responsible for movement patterns, so kind of dance, rhythm, any any rhythmic movement. So a different part of your brain starts lightening up when you're moving. So exercise induced, transient, so switching parts off, hypo ramping down, hypofrontality is your prefrontal cortex basically going offline. So when your when your prefrontal cortex goes offline, that's when we switch off depression and anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Okay.

Fear Control And Stress Curve

SPEAKER_00 16:26

And then because you're moving, you're enjoying moving, so a different part of your brain is responsible for that movement, and so then you're happy to stay in that flow, in that movement.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Is that how you would control fear as well? Going into a boxing ring or fighting arena, you you think people would be scared.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, so you control your fear through evidence. So when you've been training, you got that's why we go through training camp. You expose yourself to the stimulus, and then the aim of the game is to regulate your stress level into a medium level stress. So we have you stress, which is kind of zero to 60%, and that's the performance enhancing stress. Things when you get when it when that when there's no stress, you're not really asked, you're not really bothered, you you disengage. When stress starts increasing and you get a little bit giddy, and it's like, whoa, come on, let's go, let's go. That's that's your you stress that that's getting you excited. But then as we go from this U-stress, your middle level stress, into high level stress. High level stress is de-stress. And that's when you're in distress, that's when you're in panic. This is when you'll start activating your fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. Your fight, flight, freeze, and fawn are the your survival mechanism. It is part of your hypothalamus. So your hypothalamus is your is your survival instinct. When you push people into a fight and they're not ready, they go into their fight or flight. Performance drops from a peak level, kind of 60 to 80 percent of your of your ultimate, and all of a sudden it plummets down to 17%. This is why when people are in a high stress situation and they go, Well, I know how to defend against a right cross and I know how to defend against a kick. Why didn't I do it? It's because you've you've pushed yourself too too high on your on your stress arousal curve, and all of a sudden your performance plummets. Why did your performance plummet? Because you're too stressed and you got inside your own head. And so this is where the the fight, flight, freeze, and fawn kick in. Where so flight, running away, fight, you're obviously fighting. Freeze is like a rabbit in headlights, and you just freeze and you don't do anything. And fawn is basically agreeableness. So if you're confronted, um, say for instance, in a in a self-defense situation, if you get if you get mugged and someone sticks a gun in your face, you're gonna be like, Yeah, mate, yeah, you're right, I'll do whatever you want. You're looking after your own safety. That's fawning. So that agreeableness is is just like I know my place, you're the boss, okay. So so this is this is it this is how we kind of go around it. The the aim of the game is to expose yourself to enough stimulus so that you can regulate your stress in those heated times.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

I suppose if I think back now, because I was really fit, physically fit when I was when I was training and then and then getting it getting in the ring. It's just like you know, you know when you get out of bed in the morning, you can't open, you couldn't open, take a top off a bottle. You're like, why am I why am I s why am I so fit? But I can't, I'm like, I've got I've got morning, you know what I mean? I've got I've got morning hands. But then when the fight started, then it all comes back, you know what I mean? And then you and then you then you're into it, aren't you? By that it's you know, we keep hearing this word resilience, and young people haven't got resilience anymore. But by training in this in the combat sports, we are we're building that, aren't we? And that's transferable to other situations.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've got I've got a I've got a boxing class going on right now, one of one of my guys take it taking the class at the moment. Uh and this is the low-level stress that you need. When we're going through drill work, you're getting used to a punch coming towards your face. Now, if if it's an on-off situation, you're either getting smacked in the face or there's no punch at all, and there's no like regulation to that to that threat. However, when a punch is coming at you with control, almost choreographed, you know that they're gonna try and punch you with a particular punch, you know what's coming. It's easy to go, oh, I'm just gonna knock it to one side. But the thing is, is that when it's Mike Tyson throwing a punch at you, it's a different kettle of fish. Yeah. And that's that's what we're trying to understand is this stress arousal curve. What's the what's the what's the low-level stress that I can expose myself to so then I can kind of toughen up against this against this stress that's coming towards me.

Bullying Roots And Rules Of Fighting

SPEAKER_05 20:47

So when you were on your path to world title, how much of that was physical uh ability, how much was talent, and how much was mental?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I don't like to I would I would never say I was naturally talented. I wouldn't I would never say I was naturally gifted. It was a lot of hard work. Um when I was at school, I was the weakest kid in class. I got bullied through school. This is what this is what sent me on my martial arts journey, and also why it allows me to be, why why I think it it kind of triggers me a little bit when I see bully um and I'm and I'm wanna wanna speak out about it. So it was the unwillingness to um to do stuff when I was younger, which then put me in that kind of stressful state. So I didn't know how to I didn't know how to handle it. One of the things I had to realise was um when when I was when I was kind of going through this, uh I was brought up as a nice kid. You mustn't you shouldn't hit people, you shouldn't be fighting, you shouldn't be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that. Okay, that those were the rules, and those were the rules that I lived by. Then I came up against people that didn't live by those same rules, and so it kind of it was wrong for them to hit me, and I didn't want to stand up for myself because it's wrong to hit people. And so as soon as I found out that as soon as I started to play a sport where I Was allowed to hit people, all of a sudden I started to get the respect because it was part of the rule set. I was allowed to hit people, and then all of a sudden, people took me a little bit more serious. So then they stopped to stopped taking liberties. Um, and I didn't have to have that face-to-face confrontation with the bullies. By by the time I was having that learning, that life lesson, that learning, um, I was past school anyway. Those guys had moved on. Uh, but at that time, I was I was still coming through the ranks, I was, I was building building myself up. All of a sudden, I was winning winning titles. I was like, hang on a minute, I'm I'm pretty good at this fighting like when I'm allowed to do it. Um I look I loved the um I suppose I still love the the the combat side, I still love the the sport side of things. Um but when I had to do it from a um self-defense perspective, it was well, what are the rules of the game? I was really big on rules, probably probably a a trait of autism. Um I mean because there's so much information out there, it's easy to attach labels to certain behaviours. Like I like studying, I'm I'm very academic. Um I've done I've done load loads of stuff through through schools, and so it probably leads to that kind of high-end autism where there's degrees of understanding what the rules are and then playing by the rules. Um, I was never a scrapper, but when people crossed lines, when people crossed those boundaries, then I was willing to stand up for it as I've as I've got older and as as I've grown up. So coming back to it, it's like, well, I I think I had to learn the lesson. It was it was a tough lesson, it was a life lesson, and coming through that now I then passed that message on through my coaching of understanding what the rule set is and keeping it in sport, but also in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, the the the logo of our Brazilian jiu-jitsu has street sport and art around. So sport is playing around by the rule set. The the the street is oh well, you're not allowed to you're not allowed to punch in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, okay? You're allowed to punch on the street, so that adds to the rule set. Yeah, well, there's there's a lot, there's there's no rules on the on the street, so that's when it's like gouging and biting and loads and loads of nasty stuff like that. Well, a lot of the time people think that they say, well, I'll gouge your eye, I'll bite your ear off and all this business. But well, I'm allowed to do that as well. And so all of a sudden it's like skill set and nastiness. And then we're but then when we come into the art form, it's like, can I do that, all these things, around using the specific techniques of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and then also do it against people regardless of size, size and weight. So a lot of the time when when we start talking about athleticism, that's why in a lot of sports there's there's weight categories. The art form of Brazilian jiu-jitsu is being able to do that regardless of weight category. And this is why in in in um these Brazilian jiu-jitsu tournaments, they have absolute tournaments where it's open edge, open weight category, and like and people are just matched a lot in their technical skill level. Um, so I've I've I've been and I've I've won a few tournaments in the not only in my own weight category, but in the absolute as well, and that's what allowed me to then progress on to the the the next the next belt and be awarded my next belt.

Controlling Chaos Through Distance

SPEAKER_03 25:19

So you mentioned the academic side a few times now, and I guess it is really important by the uh by what you're saying. So from the outside though, combat sport can look very aggressive. How how do you actually teach the control of violence, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what so one of the one of the things that we have to learn through through combat sports is that fights are just are chaos, and how do we contain that chaos? So if if we say that a fight is like a cloud, containment of that cloud is either the structure inside of it, and then the cloud starts enveloping that uh that structure, and then that's when the structure gets overwhelmed, and so the chaos wins, or we we can book put that cloud or that cloud of chaos inside the remit of a bot. If I can if I can keep the chaos inside that bot, that's how I win a fight. In in every fight, it's not about how much I hit the other dude, it's about how well I manage my distance. The person that controls the space controls the fight. So, for instance, since I were talking about tie boxing, the longest range in tie boxing would be a push kick. You keep people behind a push kick, they can't hit you. You could win a fight with one technique. If you're really good with push kicking, they can't get near you. So they can't win, they can't score, they can't win. In boxing, they say that the most um the most important punch is a jab because again, it manages a distance. You're popping your jab out and you're keeping people at range at bay and they can't get into that inside space. In in Brazilian jujitsu, it's about managing distance. Are you letting them get on top of you and smother you, or can you get your frames in and hold their weight off you with your forearms, with your shins, with your knees, and and we manage the distance with those frames because it's a grappling art. In in one of one of my martial arts Facebook groups that I'm in, um I'm I'm friends with this guy that that's from America, and he said that martial arts is um he yeah, he ran with this idea, and he says, I'm no longer thinking from the tip of my nose to my push-kicking range, which is how I was thinking about it, because he's from America, he's got guns, so he's going so he says from the tip of my nose to a thousand yards. So the aim of the game is to control the distance from the tip of your nose to a thousand yards. Well, obviously, we don't have guns over here, so this is when I started to play around with catapults. So now at least I've got about 50, 60 metres. Can I control my space?

SPEAKER_05 27:38

Um, I suppose one of the other commonly held views of combat sports is um and I suppose I'm trying to relate it to you know, people going in with the intention of just making themselves hard people that can fight other people. In your experience, would you say that happens a lot, or do you think it's that you know, we go back to this bullying? Does the bully go in? The bully goes in and gets sort of actually start start starts learning about themselves and disciplining them, maybe keeping out of trouble and focusing.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

A bully with no knowledge is going to get humbled really quickly by someone with a little bit of knowledge. There's levels to this game, and and when we're when we start getting involved with that, all of a sudden the bully goes, Oh, right, okay, well, maybe I'm not as hard as I thought I was. And and and they get a bit of an education. Now, that education might be a a knowledge thing, but also it might be an experience thing when they when they get lit up by a little dude that that's just maybe faster than them or or or sharper or calmer than them because they're going through that arousal curve. A bully doesn't know about the arousal curve. So so part of understanding the academics of it means that you're gonna touch on arousal curve, you're gonna you're gonna touch on flow state, you're gonna touch on how you're going to regulate your own energy. Now I always say bullies are hurt people and hurt people hurt people. So if so bullies are essentially damaged themselves. So the thing is, is that what what are they why are they picking on somebody else to make themselves feel better? Right, okay. Why are they wanting to feel better? I mean, they might have been hit and bullied themselves. There's always going to be something that comes out in the water.

SPEAKER_05 29:12

Yeah, I suppose I suppose to be a bully, you've got to pick the right victim, haven't you? Well and then if you if you don't pick the right victim, uh then you come on stock as a bully.

Bullies Victims And Street Awareness

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Yeah, yeah. Well there I mean there there was a there was a thing that I was watching the other day, and it and it was a psychologist that showed a number of violent criminals the same video of walking across of a street scene. And what they're what they would what they were doing was the um the criminals were saying, I picked that person, I picked that person, I picked that person, I'd pick that person. Why? Because of the way that they held themselves. Okay. So what is it that's making these people maybe walk a little bit more kind of insecure? What's the what's the weakness that they're seeing? And and these criminals were were able to see potential victims, and they all pick the same people just by that how how you hold yourself. So this this is this is this is part of the thing of even how you walk down the street can be confidence dictated, it can be a confidence message. When I'm walking down the street, I'll walk down the street, I'll make eye contact with people, normally say hello to people. Morning, morning.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

That's a northern thing though.

Training Benefits Without Competing

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Might be a northern thing, but but even if it's not a verbal thing, if I was do when I do that, um when I go down to London, I walk down, walk down in London, I'll have my head up, I won't have my headphones in, I won't be looking at at the metre of space in front of me. I'll have my head on a swivel and looking around, seeing things that are going on. I run a self-defence programme at my gym. Your your first layer of defence is awareness. So when you're walking around, you haven't got your headphones in, you haven't got your hood up, you've got you're not looking at your phone. If you are if you are listening to music, you've got one earphone in, so the at least you can hear someone walking behind you. Some of these really simple self-defense tricks, they're not even tricks, it's just street saving it. Like that that can that can alleviate a lot of problems. Like Bruce Lee says, uh, the best form of defense is not being there. If I'm walking down the street and I see a see a a group of group of lads, oh okay, I'm making a judgment call. Do I carry just carry on walking past them? Do across the road, just so that it's easier. I don't need the asshole. Getting in getting in getting in fights is a pain in the ass. You end up with bruised hands and you're you're having to run away.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Do you actually need to fight or is training enough to get the mental benefits from combat sports?

SPEAKER_00 31:29

You don't need to fight. No.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Just had I guess the training, the training will give you the confidence. It will it will that you need.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

It will give you a confidence to go, I know I can handle myself, I know I can look after myself. You're always gonna have that the the there's always gonna be a little bit of butterfly, and I always say that your gut instinct is the thing that you should trust. Trusting your gut instinct is massive. You've got more signals in your um gut bio than than than you do with your prefrontal cortex with cognitive thought. This is why people say, I had a gut feeling about that. We trust it. And so through this, through this process of understanding how you function, is you learn you learn. Don't override that gut feeling, trust that gut feeling, because that's the thing that's keeping you safe. There's there's something you might not be able to put words to it, but that gut feeling tells you something.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Is that like the sixth sense?

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Yeah, spider sensor tingling, but it has as as as we're talking about martial arts and and there's the Spider-Man reference, with great power comes great responsibility. Just because you know how to do something doesn't mean that you're gonna put yourself in that situation where you have to use it's the smart thing not to use.

SPEAKER_05 32:32

So if um if someone was listening to this and interested around thinking, well, I might go down to a martial arts gym or a combat sports gym, but they're not interested in fighting, and hopefully they're not gonna have to use it as self-defense. What sort of gain, what's what benefits are they gonna gain? Hell yourself, so you spot. I mean, I think countless that's why you're on because people don't listen to me.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

It's it's it's limitless. Have you have you seen it? Have you seen the movie Limitless?

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Yes, it it gives you that hyper-awareness of the of a whole host of things that are going on. You become more self-aware, so you get develop those intrinsic skills of learning how to regulate your feelings, learn how to regulate your emotion, learn how to handle anxiety, depression, uh, and and and a whole host of other areas. You get the physical benefits of uh like combating cardiovascular disease, you say you start you start building lean muscle mass, you start getting more proprioception and and feeling how your body moves in space. Only today there were they were saying about how people that train martial arts at an older age have lower levels of cognitive decline because not only are they moving, they're being social, they're having the rough and tumble, and also one of the one of the big predicators of longevity is agility. So, how well can you keep your feet? Balance is a fundamental thing in pretty much all martial arts. So, so learning how to keep your balance extends your longevity. Uh, and that's only for yourself. When we start moving on into social norms around having a good support network around you, having a a bunch of guys, a bunch of girls, uh like a bunch of people around you, outside of your normal circle, it gives you a wider appreciation of society. If I if I go if I go out there now into my gym, we've got pickers, we've got real women, we've got ex-criminals.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

You got anyone from HMRC?

SPEAKER_00 34:26

I don't I don't know, but I can ask.

SPEAKER_05 34:28

I'll come across. But don't get them to reveal themselves in the game today.

Community Against Isolation And Grifts

SPEAKER_00 34:33

This is the thing, when you're when you're being social, this is one of the one of the benefits that goes along with it, is that you meet more people in life. More and more time is being spent isolated. The the the the irony is that we're doing this isolated. But it it's one of those things when you're when you're in that when it when when you're in that network, you just start having random conversations. Like I say, sometimes there might be people there might be someone from the HMRC out there. They might be able to give you an hand. Uh like you wouldn't believe some of the people that we have walking through our door. It's like all manner of life. Strangely, this is this is also one of the things that Jimmy Carr was saying this week uh about the about the manosphere, all that stuff that that's been kicking off over the past couple of weeks. He said, he said the the good thing about gyms is that we're we're networking, we've got we've got teamwork around us. It's encouraging communication. We're not hiding at home doing this like on a on a computer screen. You're actually having a conversation and you're your your network, and within those networks, we hold each other accountable. We're saying what what's right, what's wrong. Given that manosphere thing, I've never heard a 35-year-old plus guy agree with anything that those influencers are saying on on Manosphere. I think that the it's it's a it's a young man's thing when they get cajoled into this uh like money-making schemes, and oh, you've got to be trading, you've got to be doing this, you've got to be doing that. This is how I got my first Lamborghini, this is how I earned my first million, blah blah blah. I was like, well, that's a that's a small network, and they're basically they're hustling, they're they're they're they're they're robbing young kids that have got a hope and a dream. And these kids that have got a hope and a dream, and they're investing a couple of hundred quid on their on the internet, stocks and shares and crypto and and and all this other stuff. Like, well they they need someone that's uh maybe a little bit older with a little bit more money sense because keep holding money care, yeah. Don't get sucked into that trading trading bullshit because they're they're just gonna rob your money as it showed on the programme. So it it and they and this is this is where they're gonna spend membership more money and better money to to improve themselves.

Long-Term Work And Delayed Gratification

SPEAKER_05 36:44

Yeah, I mean I don't want to get onto the social media thing too much, but everything's it seems to be it's a quick fix, isn't it? How how long from when you first started going into uh Thai boxing to winning your titles?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

I won my first world title in 2005, won my English and British title in in 2002, and it started around 1997. So five um five five years of graft to get to like national level. Five years of graphs to get to my world title. No, it's not a quick fix. And this is this is it, this is that delayed gratification thing. But while you're doing it, work hard now for an easier life later. Notice that I didn't say easy life, easier life. This is this is it.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

You know, it's building them foundations, isn't it, for later life. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've got this bloody half-marathon on Sunday and a few marathons this year, and I suppose uh a lot of that comes back from comes you know, I've gone through this period of being massively overworked, and well not massively, but drinking an awful lot, and then managed to get back to the fitness. And when I spoke to people, it's like, yeah, but look how fit you were before, do you know what I mean? So this is it and that mindset of enjoying being in the world.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Well, I'm always gonna live with some form of regret. We've got the the the the regret of of of discipline, or we've got the regret of the the quick fit. And and it's like how much are you gonna lean into that the discipline that's required in order to achieve that end goal?

Rich’s Book And How To Get It

SPEAKER_05 38:04

Yeah, just thinking there, but do you want to tell us about your book? Yeah, we've got book book well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

So so basically it's my story uh around using academic science to achieve an end goal. Basically, I I used Maslow's hierarchy of needs um to direct certain levels of questioning um and goal setting and and stuff like that in order to transcend those levels um and get to that kind of self-actualization point. I I I came across this this early in my when I first started Thai boxing, and I was like, this is the thing that I want to do, this is what I'm gonna work hard at. Um and so probably a very messy format because a lot of the time academic models are are done in a in a very structured way. I was I took I took the model and then I I I forced my life into that model um where I was looking like what what my kind of strength conditioning goals, what what my technical skills, um, how well am I looking after myself, how good is the coaching, what are the challenges that I've got, all the way up to that I'm getting to my kind of self-actualization point, um, which is when you're being your best self. That's how you're fulfilling your potential, like working that arousal curve that we were talking about, and staying in that middle level stress all the time, just so that we're kind of putting off the staying away from that too high a stress. Then then through through this, it's how we then move from self-actualization into flow state. And through this flow state generation, this is when I moved on into being UK number one for eight years, one of the longest reigning lightweight, British champions, European champions, world champions. Uh, and I kind of I rode that for around eight years, which is kind of one of the one of the one of the longest reigns. Um, and then basically I told my story and put it into a book. So through through COVID, I was writing newsletters for my guys, um, and trying to keep people engaged through through the the the lockdowns and all that business, and just giving these like psychological newsletters and and and sports performance mindset ideas that people could play with. And I was reading a book at the time by a guy called Ben Bergeron. Um, he's a CrossFit coach. Formerly, he was a trader on Wall Street, he made a made a load of money on Wall Street, and then then then from there he went into CrossFit training um because that was his love, that was his passion. And all the stuff that he was saying in this Chasing Excellence book, the stuff that I was sending out already, I'd done the hard graft, I'd put in the work with the the newsletter, and and basically I I took those newsletters, um, did a bit of pre-story, like what's the setup to this, what's the what's the the body of work that I'd sent out, and then what are my expectations afterwards? Um, how are you gonna use this information to to to to develop your to develop yourself? So it's kind of like a self-help book. Um there's uh there's some of my Tabox and stories in there to put it into context. Um, but then there's also some questioning in there that's gonna help direct the the reader's mindset into um how to improve their life, how they can apply it. I I've just got the I've just taken taken the the last box from the publishers. I've got a load of books here at the gym. So if anyone wants to drop us a message on on our socials, either on Chocday Academy or on my Instagram, they can they can reach out, they can start our payment. It's 15 quid for the book, and then uh then we can sort sort postage as well. Just drop it, drop us a message, we can sort it out, and then I'll I'll I'll ping you a copy of.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

Well, I did um we had Kelvin on about his PTSD and how he how we got through that and his dangerous um pastimes at that time, and I did promise him I'd try and read his book and I read it. So I sat there with a physical book rather than it took some time. I'm just not great with words, but I'm part of my hangover from my first counselling. So but I don't hide it anymore, it's all it's all good. So I may I may call in, mate, on my way past and uh grab one. Yeah, cool. So Choc D you've just mentioned there, Chocadie. Choc D. Uh so is it Choc D or Chocade?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

It means it means good looking Thai because Thai is a tonal language, it also means fight good. Yeah, so so it has a kind of dual meaning in the Choc D Academy.

SPEAKER_05 42:32

So that's where people can find you.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

We're on Facebook, Instagram.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

Thanks for joining us again.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Always a pleasure. We'll possibly see you again in the future, mate. I would imagine. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

And if you would like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to Buyers a Coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefootstalking.com, and look for the little code. Thank you.